I had been following Bonnie for many years (Creative Live was the first time I saw her teach), so I was excited when I finally had the funds to signup for Immersion in 2023; however, I withdrew in time for my refund because I felt like there was something disingenuous. In my opinion, it felt like a pyramid marketing scheme and I distrusted her. It just didn’t feel right to me. Thank you for your honest review. ❤
I feel like a lot of these surface designer artists are kind of taking advantage of their audience. I've started to get annoyed by the constant new emails I get about accountability groups with paid fees or some other new course or other kinda paid membership of some kind. (stacie bloomfield, bonnie christine, lila rogers...)
Yes! That’s exactly what caused me to become discouraged with their advice and approach. I wrote Erin Kendal an email because she recently also started selling her own course and I felt the need to explain to her how we, as their audience, feel about their actions. There are now so many artists selling their courses, memberships, subscriptions, etc and I feel like they are all seeking to build their “six-figure income” and we are their pond. Pls don’t get me wrong, I respect and appreciate all these talented artists, and I believe they are genuinely seeking to teach their craft, but I am also overwhelmed and feel bombarded by their actions. I understand it is a business these artists are running, as she explained in the video, but I feel like it has become a disingenuous business model. In the end, I truly believe there are enough resources available to help, you just need to do your own research and find the right fit for you.
@@CP-gq5fw I couldn't agree more. I've decided no more buying courses. It's absurd. They maybe *think* they're helping - but I'm starting to feel like it's more of a business building practice than a desire to teach... And perhaps I'm reaching, but I'm in my 30s and I think the surface design community is mostly my age and above - I feel like they're taking advantage of perhaps a less savvy tech skills audience who feel intimidated to figure out some things out themselves. I'm over it.
@@hannahmoren4161 this is such a good discussion, and I know that several of the people I spoke to expressed a similar discomfort with how the course and upsells are marketed. And tbh it was why I went back and forth about adding an affiliate link to the description because I definitely don’t want to participate in marketing that makes people feel a little ick 😅. I get especially suspicious when I see people advertising the course when they clearly have never taken it themselves because at that point it’s obviously just a way for them to make some extra money and doesn’t feel super genuine, you know? It’s a tricky thing because as I said in the video I genuinely think the *content* of Immersion is overall quite valuable, but the upsells and marketing sometimes make me raise an eyebrow 🤨 also, when it comes to the deluge of courses and memberships we’re all hearing about in our inboxes and on Instagram ads, I’m sorta of two minds. One one hand, I’m super happy for anyone who can make a really valuable resource that genuinely helps people and also allows the creator to support their families/live comfortably doing what they love/live a fulfilling life. That’s RAD, and totally the dream! What a cool thing about the internet era! HOWEVER… I totally agree with you that it seems like there are people out there who only have $$$ in mind, and maybe don’t have the best interests of their audiences at heart. Like, one day I would love to dip my toes in the world of digital products for lots of reasons, but I would never ever want to make people feel like my product is some kind of magic potion and they’ll be doomed if they don’t buy it, you know? I get that from a business perspective it makes sense to be in “sales mode” hardcore to maximize profits, but I am genuinely NOT interested in that lol. I would rather sit down with folks to see if I thought my product would be a good fit and would gladly recommend that they DONT purchase it if I really didn’t think it would be valuable for them. Anyway, thanks for reading my short novel’s worth of thoughts (lol) and for sharing your own perspectives 🫶🏼. I really appreciate your insights!!
Thanks for engaging with our small chatter! 😂I really do love art and design. It’s in my veins! I do hope we all find our own joy in what we do as creatives. As for every artist pursuing this new business model, I sincerely wish them all the best. I will continue to be discerning about how I invest my money and who I chose to work with. One thing that is important to me when choosing to purchase a course or membership, is that I want to learn illustration. When I joined Immersion, I sincerely didn’t think it was the right fit for me because I am an advanced student in Illustrator, I am not particularly interested in only SPD and I need to improve my drawing skills. Instead I decided to join Mel Armstrong’s reasonably priced SPD course and community. Even though her course is light on illustration, I have benefited from her teaching since she is an illustrator. She uses Photoshop for her paintings and Procreate for her drawings. She provided modules in Illustrator, Photoshop and Procreate that are beginner friendly and doable for the advanced students. It has been a great resource and she consistently provides tips, challenges, resources all within the course community at no additional cost. I also joined LIz Kohler Brown’s membership for a couple of months to check it out. I think her membership is totally worth it because she gives you the ability to learn not only the SPD business, but other ways to market your designs with different products and you do not need to invest in an Adobe subscription to work with Illustrator or Photoshop. She uses Procreate, Affinity, and an iPad Pro for budget conscious users. I will probably go back to Liz because she really does know how to teach the use of these tablet applications, and I like the idea of only using my iPad Pro. She has excellent SPD classes as well. If I decide to pursue SPD, I may consider Erin Kendal’s course in the future because she really understands Spoonflower since she is a top seller and she wants to teach others how to create a business on that online market. Oh, I forgot to mention Every Tuesday, I purchased Teela’s SPD course and it is excellent. Finally, I may take Brooke Glaser’s The Illustrator’s Launchpad since my illustration skills are still lacking. As I said earlier, there are many options. We just need to find what works for our specific passions and incomes.
Thanks so much for pulling back the curtain! I've been aware of BC's content since 2022 and her ads recently popped up in my IG feed again. It's helpful to hear an honest review from someone outside of her own curated testimonial videos. I was curious about Immersion but know I'm not ready to commit that much $$ in a course right now. I've mostly been learning from UA-cam, Skillshare, and Domestika so far. Lots to learn with Adobe programs; I'm challenging myself a little bit at a time! =]
Yay, that was exactly my intention with this video!! It can be hard to know what to trust when you're looking through curated testimonials, but my goal is really to be as transparent as possible. I LOVE UA-cam and Skillshare!! I still haven't tried Domestika, but I totally agree that there's a ton of high-quality information alllll over the Internet if you're willing to look for it!
Thank you for this thorough and honest review. I started my surface pattern design journey around 2 years ago and have wondered about Immersion. You helped confirm what I intuited, especially that it is SO Illustrator heavy. I'm a long time digital designer and absolutely do not want to be at my desktop more when creating my art and patterns. I've resonated more with iPad workflow of Procreate drawing or watercolor and using Affinity Designer via Liz Kohler Brown's methods and classes. For me, this feels more natural and in flow with a traditional art practice. Thank you again for this excellent, balanced review!
I follow Liz Koehler Brown on Instagram and have been so captivated by her techniques! I don’t currently have an iPad but am super curious about getting one. You’re so right - the idea of not having to sit in front of a computer to create patterns sounds so freeing!
I took the course in 2020 (or 2019, cant remember) was the second edition. Price was 999 USD. Honestly, what we are paying are the extras she keeps adding year after year.. There is very few info on Immersion that was not explained on her Skillshare courses, for example. Everyone can be a surface pattern designer without taking her course. There is this whole glamour thing about the course, but the truth is we really dont need to pay 2k for informations we can have way less expensive in other websites. I also truly dislike the agressive market campaign! I stopped following a lot of designers cause I was sick and tired of receiving dozens of affiliate messages talking about the course from several people. Of course, they do get a lot of money to promote, but i dont like this aggressive way of doing business. For anyone wondering: yes, its possible to make money on this business, but I can guarantee you, the only one doing 7 Figures is BC, selling courses not patterns.
I agree that it has started to feel quite aggressive from some people! Also, 100%, I LOVE my Skillshare subscription. I have learned soooo much on there, and also on UA-cam to be totally honest! It would be interesting to see how much the course has changed since you took it compared to this year's version...
Has your business increased and become more profitable since taking Immersion? That’s what would indicate to me whether it was worth it to spend such a huge amount of money for her course.
Thank you for posting this video. I'm doing the free workshop that she has going on and was thinking about Immersion. The cost seemed so high to me, though. I'm currently in Vanessa Stoilva's Art Business Bootcamp. (She's here on UA-cam.) She's a surface designer now and has made some great progress with what she has learned. Now her videos aren't super "aesthetic" like Bonnie's, but I've learned a lot for A LOT LESS than Immersion. She goes into the nitty gritty of contracts, how to search for art directors, agents, business programs she uses, and so much more. I'm going to stick with her since it seems Bonnie doesn't get to that stuff like I want. Thanks again for posting this video!
That sounds like an awesome bootcamp! I’ve never heard of Vanessa Stoilva before, so I’m totally going to check her out. I agree - if you’re looking to get a lot of nitty gritty info about the business side of things, it sounds like you’re in good hands!
I found her originally for picture books and watched her transition into a surface designer. Her channel here is Art Business with Ness, if you’re interested. 😊
I also took Immersion in 2023, and I agree with everything you said! I have no regrets and it was worth it for me, but for the vast majority of us, the path to earning money in surface design is much longer and harder than the success stories she shares. Thank you for your review... I couldn't have said it all better myself.
It's always encouraging to hear from folks who had a similar experience! It helps a lot with the instant self-doubt that comes with posting a video like this -- haha! But yes, I 100% agree. I really do think that there are opportunities out there for folks who are willing to put in the work, though!
Hi Sarah! As you know, I took immersion in 2023 with you and I agree with everything you said in the video. I think as a newbie in SPD, the deep diving into illustrator was actually a big pro for me. I’m still working thru the course and I think the information was very valuable. I loved the goodie box we got and the workbook because I just love having something I can actually write on and keep track of what I’m doing. The “one thing a day” idea is also something that helped me try to get things done towards my end goal. I am disappointed in the fact that we didn’t get much of the business side of things which is obviously something that we’re gonna need - to get our own business up and running. I didn’t really like the fact that we were offered an additional membership - after paying so much for the course. I just didn’t have that kind of money.
Hi Yeny!! I totally agree with you on all of the above. It is a big perk that we get lifetime access to the course! It’s nice to be able to take it at your own pace 💕
I took immersion in 2022. I loved Bonnie and the Immersion course. I have to agree with the pros and cons of the course you listed. I'm still working on finding my personal style but enjoying the process. I also work full-time as an RN and work at my SPD in the margins of most days, but not every day (if I'm being honest). I am grateful for Bonnie and her course, it introduced me to a world I didn't know existed. 😊
Totally, I feel the same way! I've recently been reading a lot of dialogue online both in favor of and against Immersion, but I think the truth is that Bonnie introduced so many folks to the world of SPD and, without her, we would have no idea that it existed. So, even though it's not necessarily all sunshine and rainbows, I'm always going to be grateful to her for introducing me to this entire industry! Thanks so much for leaving your comment, Leslie 🫶
I got a lot from the comment section, thank you :) Gosh I followed Bonnie since 2014, 10 years! I haven't kept track though but did see she has a very expensive course and one I doubt will take. I think I will just go with skillshare and research the names listed in the comments and learn what they have to offer too.
I’m so glad to hear it! There have been lots of great discussions in the comments. Skillshare is a really wonderful resource and I have personally learned so much from the classes I’ve taken there. I’m wishing you all the best!!
Hey Sarah, Thank you for making this video! I am also a graduate of Immersion 2023 and I pretty much agree with everything you said in this video. I was a complete beginner, had never used Adobe illustrator or photoshop or even any I pad drawing apps. By the end of the course I had a really good grasp on Illustrator and that was also enough for me to figure out how to use photoshop a bit. So I can honestly say the course does a great job teaching the skills for surface pattern design.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience! I think the more people who share openly and honestly, the more informed others will be when making big decisions like this on their own.
Really appreciate the thoughts on the business, licensing and entrepreneurship part of the course. I'm trying to help my wife figure out the business aspect. Started a website and finalized it around October and she's adding to her collections (although now we're considering creating a new site with a different web platform). Hoping she'll stick it out and keep fighting through the self-doubt and difficulties getting starting making actual income because it should be worth it in the long run.
It’s definitely a long run kind of thing! I think for the vast majority of folks it might take a bit of time to start getting momentum, but it sounds like your wife is on the right track ☺️
I truly appreciate your honesty and your willingness to help others. I am currently doing the free class with Bonnie C to see what was her way of doing things. I also took Anne Lafollete’s class and you know, you take what serves you. I have spent money throughout the years in trying this method or the other (in many areas of life) but I have learned that not everyone works the same way and our journeys are totally different even if the aim is the same. I’m so glad to have found your channel. I appreciate your work!
🥹💕 thank you for your kind words!! I’ve benefitted so much from others who have been kind enough to share their experiences in life openly and honestly, so it’s my mission to do the same. I totally agree - we’re all unique in so many ways, including how we learn new skills. I haven’t heard of Anne Lafollete, but I’ll look her up!
This was such a great overview. I took immersion the same time as you and I seriously thought you were reading my mind when I watched this. With that being said I thought I would mention a bit about my experience. I have been a graphic designer using illustrator since 2010. So I had a pretty good knowledge of Illustrator. So when immersion started I will be honest, I was immediately disappointed to see how much of the course was about teaching illustrator. However….as we dove in I was pleasantly surprised how much she taught that I had never learned. I quickly began to find the value and that excited me. I was basically one of those people you were talking about that had the illustrator background but still learned a ton. I also felt the same way about the community as you. It made me think of a large college campus that there is no way to meet everyone. But I did find the experts, guides and other students that I did interact with very encouraging and helpful. One of my biggest takeaways surprised me…I gained self confidence. I suffer from huge imposter syndrome but immersion and the community built me up. And I did not feel that it was fake at all. I think there was a ton of value in having a group of like minded people. The people in my life compliment my art but they don’t really understand it or what surface pattern design is. I did think it was weird that there were so many alumni in the group because in my “then” mind I couldn’t understand why you would need to take it more than once and these people must have extra money lying around and didn’t take it serious the first time. I think I get it now and am actually on the fence of signing up again. There is so much amazing knowledge thrown at you and your mind can only absorb so much at a given time. Though we have lifetime access to the course we took I can see the value of starting again from where I am now. So much growth has happened over the past year that I could see it taking the momentum I have gained to the next level. I am part of flourish so I am not sure if I will just stay there or take immersion again. Gotta decide quick. Haha. If I could be promised there would be more on the business end with this updated version I would have already signed up. I am like you, I left feeling a little disappointed not having learned more on the business, pitching and licensing end. Have you considered taking it again?
Thank you for sharing your experience, Jennifer! I totally agree that the community was super kind and supportive, and it’s definitely good to connect with other people who GET IT when it comes to surface pattern design work. I haven’t personally considered taking it again because I feel like I already got what I could from Immersion. My workflow is soooo Photoshop focused these days, so I think it’s more worthwhile for me to continue honing my skills in the techniques I love the most. I’m also spending a TON of time learning allll about the business and entrepreneurship side of things, so I’m happy to just keep on doing that!
Sarah, where are you learning about business? I would like.to.sign.up for Immersion but the cost is too high for me. I would lovee to learn about other resources available. I have a Skillshare membership and that is super helpful.
@@mayaeshel Skillshare has been SUCH an awesome resource for me! I love it so much! Mel Armstrong is one of my favorite teachers on Skillshare, so definitely check her out if you haven’t already. In terms of business stuff, my FAVORITE resource for online business content is Wandering Aimfully. I especially love their podcast (it was just renamed to “Growing Steady”). It’s run by a husband and wife team who have been running online businesses for 15+ years and their whole focus is on running calm business. So, instead of focusing on “more, more, more” they really emphasize the importance of defining what is “enough” for you. When I first found them I started with their very first podcast episode and worked my way through them all! They release a new episode every Thursday ☺️. They also have a paid coaching program that I’m a part of now that has a TON of content about every business topic you can imagine, but I made use of their free stuff for a loonnggg time before joining.
Thank you for the detailed response! I love Mel Armstrong, and I signed up for her surface pattern course and am enjoying that. I do believe there so many great resources out there these days. I learned how to create a repeating pattern through Bonnie’s class on CreativeLive and through classes on Skillshare, and will have to build myself some sort of curriculum in order to stay focused. That’s where I really struggle.. Thanks again for all of the helpful advice and information, I am really enjoying your content and channel!
I took the course this year in February 2024, and because I already work full-time as an in-house Graphic Designer, I can only devote, like you, a few hours in the evenings and at weekends and in the holidays to Immersion. I personally think that it is the best course for surface pattern design out there currently, but I have found since that it has no Photoshop training in there, and I would have to take another course, perhaps Sarah Watt's course in Paint to Pattern to gain experience in this software, which I haven't ruled out. Bonnie's 2024 course is now in 8 modules and because it is more like a 12 week course, I still haven't completed it yet. It is now structured to complete with you working along with the modules over 3 months, 6 months or 12 months, so I am on the 12 month pathway and still on the last few lessons in Module 3, so I have not yet met a repeat pattern module. However, I am not completely new to surface pattern, as I based one of my final modules at University as a mature student in Visual Communication on repeat patterns in the Urban Environment for Interiors and Giftware, writing my own briefs, designing and creating my own digital patterns for my final show which was First Class for that module. This is why I felt that an online course would really help me come away from.being just another corporate designer. I also bought a course called 'Pattern It Up' which was only $300, with the proceeds of a freelance job in May 2021 offered by Okscancia Textile Design School, which also offers training using Adobe Illustrator, but whose training uses scripts and actions set up for you in the programme.. Similarly to Bonnie Christine, Oksana has no formal design training, but teaches you some drawing skills to encourage you to scan into your computer to manipulate in Adobe Illustrator. However, compared to Bonnie's course I found Oksana's training to be not quite on a par with Bonnie's although still very good quality as a short course. The membership, however, offered as a free month and then followed by a subscription is really excellent and compared with Bonnie's Flourish of which I am also a member, as I joined when Immersion finished, it only has 6 or 7 students which meet online every Tuesday for Masterclasses, Office Hours and Group Co-Working each for an hour and a half, and Oksana knows everyone and greets us all by name. Bonnie doesn't even know I exist! But maybe I just haven't pushed myself enough with Flourish as I only really have the time for the one membership and of course to fully complete Immersion to the very end so that I can finally open the Graduation Letter and celebrate! But only after I complete it and find the elusive TEST that apparently exists somewhere. You need to take this test or quiz which is somewhere hidden in the later modules, and then you are a legitimate graduate and are legally allowed to be in Flourish (although I heard it was at one time offered to everyone, not just graduates of Immersion). But one final comment on Immersion, it just makes me feel so special, even though we never actually communicated, she just does with the quality of the course, the way it is so skillfully designed, with the box full of goodies, planting seeds that represent you as a student and your progress, and her enthusiasm and drive, which I just haven't seen in Oksana's courses, and also not in some others, and there are a lot out there. In fact, I am torn because I would quite like to do a photoshop based course by a designer/teacher based in the UK, and I do think there are at least one or two - Natasha Gulliford looks quite a talent - she specialises in painterly florals. Can you tell me if you had to do this test/exam in the 2023 version of Immersion and pass it? Pam Terry
Thank you so much for this review. I was in Immersion 2024, unfortunately I didn't see your review before I took Immersion. I fully agree with everything you said! For me the investment was worth it, I have signed my first contract with my dream company. But I didn't follow Bonnies 'rules' as I designed designs for digital printing (very colorful). If I had known before that designing digital prints was much easier in PhotoShop I would have taken a PS course in stead of Immersion. On the other hand I wouldn't have gotten my contract without Immersion as someone there noticed my work. I have fully used the community in Immersion which was of great help to learn everything I wanted to learn. The last week was connecting week with Flourish members but this wasn't a success. By the time people started connecting and handing out each others mail addresses, the pulled the plug from connecting. This was the moment the business from Bonnie was in danger and she felt she had to protect that. For me as a student this didn't feel right. So overall I'm happy I took Immersion, I learned loads of things to get a step closer of becoming a fulltime designer. But now I need to learn more about PS because I see more future there.
Thank you! Beginner here, sometimes I feel as if I need to dive head first into buying courses. The information is out there if you really want to find it
You’re so welcome, Shuntega!! You’re so right, there’s lots of good info out there ☺️. I always have to take a step back before I jump into any new course or purchase in general haha. Always better to sit back for a while than to buy these things impulsively!!
I also took Immersion 2023 and participated in an Immersion study group. You did a phenomenal job explaining what can be expected in the program, along with the pros and cons. I agree 100% with your assessment! Good job. 👍🏾
I took it with you in '23 and mostly agree with everything you said. It was a great intro into SPD, now I am learning from other people in different online spaces. I am in Flourish, paid for one year, so I cannot cancel it until May. It is overwhelming and not too much of Bonnie there, more experts. Flourish is not for everyone I guess, so better to join for one month and see if it fits :) Your affiliate link in the end made me smile haha
It’s really interesting to hear about what it’s like inside Flourish! So, what do you think? Do you find it valuable? Are you planning to cancel in May?
I haven't opened it for a few months, lots of mindset classes and huge community... I'm in Power Sellers Academy by Erin Kendal and it's my fav membership. Also Patternfolk is getting better and better every month. I also bought a few under 100 dollars Procreate classes - full on learning and exploring ☺️
Gosh i appreciate this so much. I thought about joining but the cost was the biggest reason i didn't then i found liz Kohler-Brown and affinity designer which i love way more than illustrator. I totally got that feeling from the surface pattern world that if i don't use illustrator i am not a real designer. But thats just not true.
I’ve heard so many good things about Liz Kohler-Brown’s membership! I love seeing her stuff on Instagram. And, exactly!! You DEFINITELY don’t need to design in Illustrator to be a “real” designer! There are sooooo many examples of successful designers who use a wide range of programs. I’m a big believer in doing whatever feels best for you 🫶🏼
Thank you so much for this. I have been considering taking the immersion course or something similar, but on reflection this one may not be for me. I've been a full time illustrator and artist for nearly 30 years, (mainly children's books and ceramics, but looking to venture into other surface design) and while I use Adobe Illustrator regularly it really isn't my preferred medium. I like my designs to have a hand painted feel, and often this is lost with vectors. To be honest I was a little turned off when Bonnie mentioned God a couple of times, and the material seemed quite US-centric. (Nothing wrong with either, but I'm a UK atheist, haha) Thank you so much for helping me make my decision, and good luck in your career. Great video!
You’re so welcome! I’m totally there with you - I’m a raster girl through and through 😆. If you’re on Skillshare, Cat Coquillette and Mel Armstrong have some AMAZING courses about SPD in photoshop if that’s more your style!
Wow, another great video. I've actually never heard of this course. I took Jenna Rainey's Brand + Brand course. I loved it. You totally answered one of my mental questions in this video about Photoshop vs Illustrator and which is better for creating patterns. I too, favor the painted look so I think I'll be sticking with Photoshop. I love learning about your journey because I feel like I'm almost at the same point in my potential art business. I don't have a full time job outside the home, but I've got 5 kids 😅. And it gives me hope knowing there are other people trying to do this. I REALLY hope you get successful.
Super helpful, thank you for this review. I was wondering if I should save up and this gave me my answer. ;) I am enjoying all of your videos - thank you for sharing so much helpful advice. Especially for the super newbie who is just processing if this is something I should pursue or not.
I’m so glad you found it helpful!! I, of course, can’t give great advice without knowing your situation, but I will say that if you’ve found something that lights you up inside it’s definitely worth pursuing! But that can look so different for every person. Pursuing something can start with just baby steps to test the waters, ya know? No need to dive into the deep end straight away!
When I was brushing up on my surface design after a 10 year hiatus in a different art field from being an in-house artist for a wholesale company, I looked into some of these courses in case I missed anything while I was gone. You are right. While you do get a bunch of information, more so if you're new to the industry, the whole point is selling a product and keeping you coming back for more. They will not give you all of the information you need if they are selling courses, unfortunately and it can leave a bad taste in your mouth feeling like you are being let down. You are also right in that they will not give you all of their techniques for creating a business because that makes you competion, or like me, mislead as to the amount of success they really had with the course they are promoting. I took another course, not this one, but similar.
It’s interesting to hear that you had some overlapping experiences even with a different course! At the end of the day, I’ve come to realize that success in this industry really comes down to lots of hard work, dedication, and a desire to make the world a little more beautiful. There’s really no “get rich quick” (or, “get licensed quick”) shortcut!
Hey Sarah, thanks for your thoughtful perspectives - your presentation of your review was informative and genuine, which I really appreciated. I'm curious -- only if you're comfortable answering -- if you could go back in time, do you think you would still choose to take this course? Or do you feel there are other comparable/more valuable resources out there for that pricepoint?
Hi! Thanks for your comment 😊 So, I think different people will definitely have different answers to your question, which is something to keep in mind. For me personally, I do not regret taking it and I do think I'd take it again if I went back in time. Putting aside my qualms with the way the course is marketed, I really do think that two huge benefits for me were that 1) making that investment really kicked things into gear for me in terms of getting the ball rolling with my own creative business goals because I wanted to make Immersion "worth it", and 2) I learned how an online course can be REALLY well done (which is helpful for me since I want to create my own courses one day). THAT BEING SAID, I don't foresee myself being one of the Immersion alums who retakes the course in the future. I honestly hardly ever use Illustrator for my patterns these days, and I generally feel like I've already gotten what I can out of the course. If you want to learn Illustrator (especially for SPD), Immersion will 100% teach you everything you need to know. I've heard from others that the accountability aspect of taking the course with a community is helpful for folks who might not hold themselves accountable if they were to e.g., watch a bunch of Skillshare courses on their own. Speaking of Skillshare, though, I've taken a gazillion courses on Skillshare and have looovveeed so many of them. I think that if you're willing to cobble together your own curriculum, you can definitely find the resources you need on places like Skillshare. But then the onus falls on you to make sure you are actually taking the most relevant courses (and that you actually finish them/implement what you've learned). You'll get a lot more structure in a big course like Immersion, which has definitely been beneficial for some folks. Anyway, to wrap up my novel (lol), I know it's kind of annoying when the answer boils down to "it depends" so please let me know if you have any follow-up questions that I can answer to help you figure out what's best for you!
This was an informative video. I have not taken Immersion, but have had lots of FOMO. Your thorough review is helpful. I DID take another course, Leverage Your Art, which was more about the business side of art. It was quite informative and taught so much from an art business perspective, but not the nitty gritty of ‘setting up a business’. These teachers probably have to stay clear of that aspect so that they are not considered to be giving legal advice. In Leverage, I felt some of the same cons that you felt, overwhelm of community, teaching about a subject (licensing) then dangling the extra tools before you for an additional fee, post selling other courses, etc. They are probably all worth what is being charged, but it just gets overwhelming. I was not able to participate in the small groups (which I probably needed the most), because it was also an ‘additional fee’ to do that part 😢, and I was already scraping to do the basic course. These teachers that do these big courses seem to be following Stu McLaren’s structure (at least I think that is his name). So, I finally just realized that I needed to expect pretty much the same from all of them about the post selling, etc. But overall, I was still glad I took it. Honestly, my issue in building an art business is that I did not have a pre-existing body of work and a signature style before taking that course. Because of that, I ended up on information overload and have spent the last year trying to do too many things at one time, before I have really discovered completely who I am as an artist. And I have done so many other tasks, that I have hardly even created any fresh watercolor art. 😮 Sometimes I just have to laugh at the people that look at my art and say, “You could make money at that! You should try to sell it!” 🤦♀️ They just have no idea of all the steps that go into digitizing, uploading, and lots of other business details in between. Although, I gotta say, that for some people it just seems to happen effortlessly. I am NOT one of those people. Anyhoo, I am a watercolor lover here, have messed around with Illustrator, Photoshop, and Procreate for repeat patterns. I have learned loads from Skillshare (and even some of the teachers you referenced). I’ve toyed with the idea of doing Immersion, so I really appreciate this insightful breakdown of the course.
I wish I saw this before😊 I took immersion this year 2024. After thinking a lot about it cos it is a lot of money. Totally agree with you on the pros and cons! I went in determine to finish the course with a collection and expecting to learn about the business side in details. The feedbacks on design and questions during the course was super fast, very positive and encouraging. I wish they would be more about how to develop the design to a better version. And on the business chapter, agree with you, it felt short. And to learn more it would cause extra to join a community to get info on things to start your business or to get licensing deals, etc. I think the chapter sequence is a bit confusing. At the end I had to write all the key components down and rearrange them on the wall to see the big picture😂 Also after finishing, I was super confused about my signature style as i felt restricted to vectorize everything. My conclusion is that it is a well design course. Unfortunately, I haven’t learnt a lot of new things from this since I went to design school, started pattern design from a few skillshare classes and have been doing works using ps and ai for a while now. Although if I was very outgoing and liked good online connections, I would probably benefit more.
I was designing patterns since around 2014 as a graphic designer. Then I took immersion in 2021 and again in 2022. I loved the community. So far I have gotten one licensing deal so it was worth it for me. I feel like if your on the fence don’t do it but if you eat breathe and sleep design like me and are willing to put in the work you should totally do it. I even may take immersion again in the future because I miss the community and feedback. I was in flourish when it first came out but flourish wasn’t really worth it for me personally because with life I just wasn’t able to participate as much. However for me immersion was worth it but I also am pretty sure it was not as expensive when I took it but we also did not get a printed out workbook either. I’m not sure the average surface pattern designer can make a living doing it which is probably why so many designers have their own courses.
That’s so awesome that you’ve had a licensing deal!! I love to hear it! And I’m really glad that you found Immersion to be worth it for you 🙌🏼. I agree that many artists supplement their licensing incomes with other revenue sources, but I also don’t personally see this as a bad thing (as long as they’re open and honest about it) because it’s super common for self-employed people to have multiple revenue streams anyway, and they all take work!
I agree 💯 with you assessment. Especially the “success” stories and the only reason I joined flourish is the entrepreneur aspect and now you have to email to leave flourish and it’s a lot of recycled information. Her product is quality and she likable and creates a good environment
That’s really interesting that you have to email to leave Flourish… hmmm. But yeah, I totally agree with you! Like, Immersion is genuinely a top-tier course in terms of its presentation and content, I think I just have some issues with the way it’s marketed re: selling the “dream”, you know? I get that from a marketing perspective it makes sense to sell a transformation but I’ve also learned that we, as consumers, should learn that whenever something sounds too good to be true, it probably is 😅. Idk, like I said in the video it’s definitely nuanced and I don’t mean to come at anyone for running a business! ALSO, I heard that Bonnie actually did add more entrepreneurship stuff to this year’s version of the course because a lot of the feedback she got about the course was related to that, so that’s potentially good news!
Immersion 2021 & 2022 alumni there! I have felt the same. I joined when it was cheaper. I felt like the modules were missing something. My peer group was free to join and we still meet. I would also add that any updates to the Immersion course should have been included in the initial cost not a alumni price ongoing each year. Flourish member too and Bonnie isn’t as present in the community as she used to be. I’d rather hear more from Bonnie in the community. 2024 version looks to have more modules and was on the fence to join this year. I think it’s worth investing in the course but plan to spend a lot of time creating a signature style and then collections.
I wish we had access to updates, too! That would be really nice. It’s interesting to hear that Bonnie isn’t as present in Flourish as she used to be. It certainly does seem like things have changed a lot for her and her business in the past few years, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing! But different for sure. I saw that the new version does look to have some more modules! She mentioned that she got a lot of feedback from past years that people wanted more entrepreneurship information in the course and she said she added stuff to those modules, so I will be curious to see if others feel the same way.
Yes, I joined it in 2022 too and the business part for me wasn't worth it. In 7 days it is impossible to decide if the course is worth it... And above I said the same thing - with Adobe CC constantly updating, Bonnie should of be giving at least that part to alumni to watch for free.
First off thank you for doing this review, appreciate your effort and transparency! Your review is quite telling how the public perception and almost cult-like status Bonnie has in the pattern world. In the video, you're almost apologetic for your criticism even though you're 100% entitled to have your opinions about the course. I think a heavier criticism could be geared toward the course's price and constant upselling. Sure if compared to college courses in the USA it might be cheap and great, but if you compare it to all the free resources available online it sounds like it's not that great of a deal. I wouldn't be satisfied if I took a $2050+ course and major components were lacking (like the licensing and business part), but I feel like people love Bonnie and because of that are willing to accept more flaws.
Made my comment without watching the last minute. With an affiliate link available the positive tone of the video makes more sense now I guess. There's a reason UA-cam has a "Paid sponsorship" feature, and I get that this isn't your typical ad or that you have been paid upfront, but having an affiliate link gives this video other motives other than just a review, and it might be a good idea to mention at the start of a video for transparency.
@@jonas_welin Hi! Your comment is super perceptive, and I appreciate you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I want to address the affiliate link thing because I agree with you 100% that it can come off as ingenuine if it feels like you're trying to be sold something. I was so back and forth about whether I even wanted to include an affiliate link for this reason -- I don't want folks to trust my opinion LESS because of it. I promise you that I wrote this whole video script before I even had an affiliate link, and as I describe in the video, my goal is NOT to sell anybody Immersion. There are a ton of Immersion affiliates who will flood your Instagram feed and your inbox with sales pitches, but that will never be me. I wanted to make this video to give an honest review of the course, and the reason that I included the link is that I envisioned that there would be folks who would watch the video and conclude that it WAS the right thing for them, so my thought process was that the link was just a way that those folks could help support my channel. In terms of my apologetic approach to my criticisms, I can assure you that that's just my personality 😅 I'm, in many ways, your classic Midwestern, non-confrontational, people pleasing kinda gal, so I often shy away from stirring the pot or ruffling any feathers. And I'm an optimist (to a fault, sometimes), so I always do try to give people the benefit of the doubt. That said, I totally agree with you that I (and anybody else) am definitely allowed to have opinions about things, and I am trying to be less of a people pleaser haha. I also agree with you about there being an abundance of free and low cost resources online, and my hope with this video is that folks will be better able to discern whether they feel comfortable spending so much money on something like Immersion after seeing what it’s like on the inside. Anyway, all that to say I genuinely promise I’m not trying to swindle anybody and am truly just hoping to provide my insight and honest opinions with this video.
@@pepostudios Thanks for your reply. First off I want to apologize for my comment, I came off too harsh. I felt a bit deceived when I saw the affiliate link in the end and that probably shows in the tone of my comment. I don't think your review wasn't honest, and I think it's a good review but as I mentioned I feel like you downplayed the things you didn't like about the course. And online it's hard to know why someone approached things a certain way or their motives, but I appreciate your explanation. Your opinions and voice are worth a lot and I appreciate your openness, transparency, and all the content you make.
@@jonas_welin no need to apologize, I totally get where you’re coming from and I genuinely don’t mean to deceive or trick anyone. I appreciate you for watching my video and taking the time to share your thoughts 🫶🏼
Bonnie is such a great motivator and teacher. Probably I would totally go for Immersion, but I don't really want to use Illustrator. Thank you for this video. I really like how you explain things!
Aawww thank you!! I totally agree, she genuinely is great at both of those things. I have a Skillshare membership and have found it to be sooooo valuable in terms of learning ~non-Illustrator~ techniques for SPD, so I’d definitely recommend that as an option!
Thx for your honest, thorough review! Definitely feel this solidified my desire to take Immersion, but as noted, price point may require I wait until I can make sure I give it the attention it needs so that I don’t feel I paid to have it sit on the shelf lol. Again, thank you 💙
@@believablyme omg thank you! 😭💕🫶🏼 I totally hear ya. The good news is that you get lifetime access to the version of the course you buy, so you really can take it at your own pace. One of the ladies in the group of people I spoke to who took it with me last year is still working her way through the course for the first time, so that’s 100% an option! As long as you’re okay with the fact that community support stops a month after the end of the course, it really doesn’t matter how long it takes you to go through it.
great video and review! thanks for sharing your thoughts! I was kinda thinking about taking the course because i have been BOMBARDED with ads, but i will probably be skipping this as I'm not a very good student 😅
Soooo true, I’m getting those ads too!! You should 1000000% do what’s right for you and do NOT feel pressured to take it just because of ~internet pressure~ haha. The good news is that there are soooo many wonderful ways to learn online (including a ton of free/low cost options) so I’m sure you’ll be able to learn anything in a way that works with your learning style, regardless of if you’re a “good” student or not 🫶🏼
Thank you for this, i want to preserve my watercolor painterly look so this course wouldn't have been what I needed, and I feel a lot better about this decision after watching this. THANK YOU!! I Also wanted something more business related. We'll see if Leverage Your Art is THAT!! Cause I just signed up for it😂
I’ve heard some great things about Leverage Your Art! I haven’t personally taken it, but I know people who have and who have loved it. I hope you find it super valuable!! 🙌🏼
I mean, I’ve been wondering if anyone from Team Bonnie would have beef with my video, haha. So far nothing! 😅 my only goal is to be totally honest and transparent about my experience!
I’m currently doing Immersion for the second time and although I love most things about the course for various reasons, I totally agree that Illustrator is NOT the be all and end all for creating patterns. I totally get that it’s the program that’s used and taught in the course, and that’s fine, but I agree that it shouldn’t be framed as the ONLY program. There are far more affordable and user-friendly options like Affinity Designer - although, yes, admittedly it’s a little behind in some functionality at the moment, such as no image trace, but the simplicity of functions like symbols and clipping masks highlight how clunky some of Illustrator’s processes are. I’ve done the course twice and haven’t used Illustrator once :D
That’s so interesting to hear that you’re taking it as an alum even though you don’t use Illustrator! So, do you mainly use Affinity Designer then? I totally agree that Illustrator is certainly not the only program - I know sooooo many designers who use a wide range of different options and are totally successful in their licensing endeavors.
@@pepostudios Pretty much! I use Affinity Designer version 2 on my iPad (I also use Procreate a lot). I learnt Designer via Skillshare and can apply/translate a lot of Illustrator lessons to Affinity - not everything, but enough. I highly recommend Weronika Salach‘s Skillshare class on using automated pattern templates (‘Surface Pattern Design in Affinity Designer: Ditsy Floral Half-Drop Repeat Pattern’) - no more manual copy/pasting motifs from one side of Illustrator to the other!
I was in her membership for a while. Not her new class. I ended up leaving because I’m a digital artist on my iPad. She is very heavy into Illustrator. It was just not for me. But I do need to learn Photoshop. I also tried Affinity on my iPad. It is not for me. I use Procreate and Photoshop. I feel you can learn all this in Skillshare rather than spending 2K. The ads are enticing.
Photoshop is awesome, I use it for everything!! I’m really thinking about getting an iPad soon and playing with the world of digital illustration, so I’m super excited about learning procreate. It’s definitely a myth that you need to work in Illustrator to be successful in surface pattern design!
I just bought immersion 2024 and now after watching this, I am really reconsidering my purchase 😅 thanks for reviewing, I don’t have an extra $2000 to just burn 🔥 to learn illustrator ~ I do think that’s a valuable skill / tool but not worth $2000 ~ Im not an absolute beginner to digital illustration, and feel confident that I can learn illustrator on my own tbh ; I don’t have problems making art and coming up with ideas, I’m more interested learning how to start a business / build website / portfolio/ finding clients/ customizing products / running a shop and I’m wondering if this immersion is not actually going to solve the issues I’m facing ? Would appreciate feedback 🙏
Hi Jeanne! So, Immersion definitely gives a good starting point for all of those topics. There’s a stronger focus on art licensing than on running a product based business, but there is some information about how you can turn your artwork into products if that’s more aligned with what you were thinking. Are you familiar with Stacie Bloomfield? I haven’t taken her signature course (Leverage Your Art), but I do know she runs a product based business and I hear she teaches a lot about the entrepreneurial side of running an art business. Also, it’s worth noting that Bonnie mentioned that shes gotten a lot of feedback in the past few years that her students wanted more information about the business side of SPD, so she’s apparently added content to those sections for this year’s version of the course. Since you did decide to buy it, while you’re on the inside I’d just poke around as much as you can to see if you can get a sense of the lessons that are coming to see if they align with your hopes!
@@pepostudios oh my gosh that is such a good point about “what is the endgame” and reverse engineer the path to getting there! Thanks so much for the feedback! Honestly I feel relieved and think I would like to take Stacie’s Leverage course as well, once I have a solid body of work ~ thanks again 🙏☺️
@@staciedale5626 i saw that! Which I think is awesome … ultimately I decided to stick it out! I always get buyer’s remorse after a big purchase, especially if it’s something for myself.. I did contemplate the return, even filled out an email .. but I never sent it, and am now feeling more excited about the new opportunity.. the expense is still hard to fathom for someone like me, but I’m hopeful the education and experience will be foundational.. thanks for the input!! ☺️
I spoke to someone who did the course as I was thinking of signing up. I was told that, given lots of time you could find all the things you learn on Immersion by going online and by looking at other courses. However, the advice I was given was that BC’s course has it all in one place. The book is great. All of us from outside the USA felt left out. BC is just blind to the way American culture is so different to elsewhere in the world. It’s a shame, I just kept thinking “ you act like that in the UK people will think you are just pushy” that’s why I love the USA - people are approachable and you are encouraged to be a go-getter but that approach doesn’t work very well here. So I felt left out of the culture a lot of the time. Is it worth it. I think so.
I want a more hand painterly affect for my designs. Is there a course that you are aware of that teaches photoshop instead? Thank you so much for this review I really appreciate this I was considering taking the 2025 course it's just so attractive the way it's presented. I am re-considering this now..
Well, shameless plug for a short series I have on my channel that walks you through how you can take your watercolor paintings and turn them into repeating patterns in Photoshop! You can watch it here: ua-cam.com/video/2SPnlrx0bIg/v-deo.htmlsi=3RLuZ1-Onv-VR-uo If you're on Skillshare, I really like Cat Coquillette's class on this topic, and Mel Armstrong has a bunch of really wonderful surface pattern design courses, too. It sounds like you'd definitely be somebody who will get a lot of value from using rasters instead of vectors!
Thank you so much for such a great review of the course. Would you please make another review about Stacie’s course too: it’s called How to Leverage your Art. Thank you 😊
Good review, thanks. Yes unfortunately a business has a bottom line of making a profit and she probably had a consultant design the sequence of upselling. It can be a turn off. But if you expect it, then so much the better. However, it can be distressing to people who don't have a lot of money to invest in a course like this then feel like they are missing out because - the next great tip is around the corner and costs more. I experienced the same in a business course for artists - overwhelm by the amount of information, almost too much, plus we had to print out all of our materials. I like that BC provides a printed workbook. I did meet a core group of great women in my study group (in this other course) and we are still meeting a year and half later.
I totally agree that if you see it coming it can be a lot better and easier to manage expectations! There’s definitely a sweet spot between underwhelm and overwhelm in the online course world, and it can be tricky to hit that mark. I totally agree that the printed workbook was super valuable. I still pull it out as a reference doc from time to time. So cool that you’re still meeting with your study group!!
This is when I feel always not really motivated when,people selling their courses, refer to how much value is there in comparison with what you pay for a semester study at university - and you come from a country,where all university degrees studies are FREE of charge including Ph.D. …Then I’m like well,the course price still sounds pretty high to me considering I didn’t pay a penny for any of my years at university..
We’re DEFINITELY doing things wrong in the U.S.!! I studied in France for a semester and my university fees were only €300 for the entire semester… sigh 😅
If Bonnie was really killing 💰💰💰it as a surface pattern designer then that’s where her focus would be, in making patterns instead of upselling expensive courses. She probably realized very quickly that the money is in teaching courses after seeing how well her Skillshare classes have done. The cost of immersion is ridiculous and even worse she continues to hike up the price every new enrollment. I had my doubts about taking the course but now I definitely will not if information about the business aspect in surface pattern design is minimal and barely covered which is very essential to a newbie in the field. That’s so wrong and unfortunate. I will just stick to UA-cam which has a ton of free classes on Adobe Illustrator and keep doing research about the business aspect or just go out there and do it! That’s really the way we all get experience at anything that we do. I’m sure that’s how it was for Bonnie in her early years…trial and error. Thank you for the inside details in this video, very helpful.
I’m glad this video was helpful! I also wanna say that I definitely don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong about selling courses or digital products. Most people who are self employed develop multiple different streams of income to help with the inevitable fluctuations of every income stream, and I totally get that. So, like, I don’t personally harbor any judgement for the artists and designers who choose to also create courses or sell ebooks or whatever, because I think that many of them are genuinely sharing super valuable information, and they’re managing their businesses well, and creating a comfortable life for themselves. Love that for them! My issue is when I feel blindsided by these things, where you’re promised one thing and delivered another, or just sold a dream, you know? Or when the marketing feels a little out of hand and can start to feel a bit sleazy. But yeah, I totally agree that there are so many amazing free or low cost resources on UA-cam or Skillshare that have been soooo valuable to me as I’ve learned about surface pattern design, and I know you’ll be able to learn so much that way too!
Flourish is an annual fee, correct? So, she's securing return clients. Whereas Immersion is a one-time thing. She's not hurting for cash, she retired her husband :P
I took the course years before, but it was a big investment for me even for 1200$. I already worked in this field I just wanted to know more about the business side and how to make more money, and as you mentioned this part was really superficial. (Or practically saying you have to sold courses to earn well, because just licensing is not so much) A little bit disturbing to get often in mail new opportunities to spend money on her memberships and other inventions. I learned some great informations during the course, but not sure these informations worth me this amount of money. Or suspecting that I could already find this infos on the internet. Hm…
Thanks for your insight!! It’s interesting to hear that even though you took an older version of the course, you still share a lot of the same opinions as I do. I feel similarly about the upsells, and don’t love feeling like someone is trying to get as much $ out of their customers as possible, if that makes sense. I agree that there’s a ton of amazing information out there on the internet, but I will admit that it is really nice to have it in a super organized, easy to access way like you have in a well-designed course. Such a tricky balance, though.
I mean I’ve gone through both and I do think Immersion is much more thorough (and Bonnie’s Skillshare courses are pretty old at this point, so worth keeping in mind). But I totally agree that her Skillshare courses do provide a solid overview, not to mention the fact that there are sooooo many other amazing classes on Skillshare. Tbh the majority of the SPD skills I use on a day to day basis are things I learned on Skillshare!
What I truly failed to understand is if people not willing to put their time and effort into a thing which they are passion about than obviously they will be tempted to go for a high paid course which is hyped up to turn their fortunes around.
The price for the course keeps hiking and the fact that she charges for the "Study group" is disappointing. Lots of people make a sacrifice to take her course and charging extra for work she and or her team are not doing is plain sinful. The leader and the team members are putting the effort. Yes, she or her team suggests this but charging for it as if the course price is not high enough is outrageous, especially in this economy. The truth is that BC and her company mastered bottling everything and selling it and people keep just giving her their hard earned money.
I took Immersion and gave up my subscription of Adobe- it's so expensive to maintain and I wasn't making money enough to justify it. I have found several other artists who have courses that are this expensive and have the same structure. I wonder who came up with this idea to make money? It does seem like a lucrative business model and the push to join is very strong. Immersion was interesting, but you can learn the basics of the process without it. The focus on Adobe is frustrating. I think Adobe is a scam.
I feel ya - it can super expensive! I personally do find my Adobe subscription valuable because I use photoshop and other programs really regularly, but I totally agree that if you’re not using the programs often, it’s definitely not worth it to maintain that subscription.
Greetings! I have watched other videos of yours. You are delightful and informative. Thank you! Yes, I am 90% “in” for the upcoming class. Your input has been constructive.
I had been following Bonnie for many years (Creative Live was the first time I saw her teach), so I was excited when I finally had the funds to signup for Immersion in 2023; however, I withdrew in time for my refund because I felt like there was something disingenuous. In my opinion, it felt like a pyramid marketing scheme and I distrusted her. It just didn’t feel right to me. Thank you for your honest review. ❤
I feel like a lot of these surface designer artists are kind of taking advantage of their audience. I've started to get annoyed by the constant new emails I get about accountability groups with paid fees or some other new course or other kinda paid membership of some kind. (stacie bloomfield, bonnie christine, lila rogers...)
Yes! That’s exactly what caused me to become discouraged with their advice and approach. I wrote Erin Kendal an email because she recently also started selling her own course and I felt the need to explain to her how we, as their audience, feel about their actions. There are now so many artists selling their courses, memberships, subscriptions, etc and I feel like they are all seeking to build their “six-figure income” and we are their pond. Pls don’t get me wrong, I respect and appreciate all these talented artists, and I believe they are genuinely seeking to teach their craft, but I am also overwhelmed and feel bombarded by their actions. I understand it is a business these artists are running, as she explained in the video, but I feel like it has become a disingenuous business model. In the end, I truly believe there are enough resources available to help, you just need to do your own research and find the right fit for you.
@@CP-gq5fw I couldn't agree more. I've decided no more buying courses. It's absurd. They maybe *think* they're helping - but I'm starting to feel like it's more of a business building practice than a desire to teach... And perhaps I'm reaching, but I'm in my 30s and I think the surface design community is mostly my age and above - I feel like they're taking advantage of perhaps a less savvy tech skills audience who feel intimidated to figure out some things out themselves. I'm over it.
@@hannahmoren4161 this is such a good discussion, and I know that several of the people I spoke to expressed a similar discomfort with how the course and upsells are marketed. And tbh it was why I went back and forth about adding an affiliate link to the description because I definitely don’t want to participate in marketing that makes people feel a little ick 😅. I get especially suspicious when I see people advertising the course when they clearly have never taken it themselves because at that point it’s obviously just a way for them to make some extra money and doesn’t feel super genuine, you know? It’s a tricky thing because as I said in the video I genuinely think the *content* of Immersion is overall quite valuable, but the upsells and marketing sometimes make me raise an eyebrow 🤨
also, when it comes to the deluge of courses and memberships we’re all hearing about in our inboxes and on Instagram ads, I’m sorta of two minds. One one hand, I’m super happy for anyone who can make a really valuable resource that genuinely helps people and also allows the creator to support their families/live comfortably doing what they love/live a fulfilling life. That’s RAD, and totally the dream! What a cool thing about the internet era! HOWEVER… I totally agree with you that it seems like there are people out there who only have $$$ in mind, and maybe don’t have the best interests of their audiences at heart. Like, one day I would love to dip my toes in the world of digital products for lots of reasons, but I would never ever want to make people feel like my product is some kind of magic potion and they’ll be doomed if they don’t buy it, you know? I get that from a business perspective it makes sense to be in “sales mode” hardcore to maximize profits, but I am genuinely NOT interested in that lol. I would rather sit down with folks to see if I thought my product would be a good fit and would gladly recommend that they DONT purchase it if I really didn’t think it would be valuable for them.
Anyway, thanks for reading my short novel’s worth of thoughts (lol) and for sharing your own perspectives 🫶🏼. I really appreciate your insights!!
Thanks for engaging with our small chatter! 😂I really do love art and design. It’s in my veins! I do hope we all find our own joy in what we do as creatives. As for every artist pursuing this new business model, I sincerely wish them all the best. I will continue to be discerning about how I invest my money and who I chose to work with. One thing that is important to me when choosing to purchase a course or membership, is that I want to learn illustration. When I joined Immersion, I sincerely didn’t think it was the right fit for me because I am an advanced student in Illustrator, I am not particularly interested in only SPD and I need to improve my drawing skills. Instead I decided to join Mel Armstrong’s reasonably priced SPD course and community. Even though her course is light on illustration, I have benefited from her teaching since she is an illustrator. She uses Photoshop for her paintings and Procreate for her drawings. She provided modules in Illustrator, Photoshop and Procreate that are beginner friendly and doable for the advanced students. It has been a great resource and she consistently provides tips, challenges, resources all within the course community at no additional cost. I also joined LIz Kohler Brown’s membership for a couple of months to check it out. I think her membership is totally worth it because she gives you the ability to learn not only the SPD business, but other ways to market your designs with different products and you do not need to invest in an Adobe subscription to work with Illustrator or Photoshop. She uses Procreate, Affinity, and an iPad Pro for budget conscious users. I will probably go back to Liz because she really does know how to teach the use of these tablet applications, and I like the idea of only using my iPad Pro. She has excellent SPD classes as well. If I decide to pursue SPD, I may consider Erin Kendal’s course in the future because she really understands Spoonflower since she is a top seller and she wants to teach others how to create a business on that online market. Oh, I forgot to mention Every Tuesday, I purchased Teela’s SPD course and it is excellent. Finally, I may take Brooke Glaser’s The Illustrator’s Launchpad since my illustration skills are still lacking. As I said earlier, there are many options. We just need to find what works for our specific passions and incomes.
Thanks so much for pulling back the curtain! I've been aware of BC's content since 2022 and her ads recently popped up in my IG feed again. It's helpful to hear an honest review from someone outside of her own curated testimonial videos. I was curious about Immersion but know I'm not ready to commit that much $$ in a course right now. I've mostly been learning from UA-cam, Skillshare, and Domestika so far. Lots to learn with Adobe programs; I'm challenging myself a little bit at a time! =]
Yay, that was exactly my intention with this video!! It can be hard to know what to trust when you're looking through curated testimonials, but my goal is really to be as transparent as possible. I LOVE UA-cam and Skillshare!! I still haven't tried Domestika, but I totally agree that there's a ton of high-quality information alllll over the Internet if you're willing to look for it!
Thank you for this thorough and honest review. I started my surface pattern design journey around 2 years ago and have wondered about Immersion. You helped confirm what I intuited, especially that it is SO Illustrator heavy. I'm a long time digital designer and absolutely do not want to be at my desktop more when creating my art and patterns. I've resonated more with iPad workflow of Procreate drawing or watercolor and using Affinity Designer via Liz Kohler Brown's methods and classes. For me, this feels more natural and in flow with a traditional art practice. Thank you again for this excellent, balanced review!
I follow Liz Koehler Brown on Instagram and have been so captivated by her techniques! I don’t currently have an iPad but am super curious about getting one. You’re so right - the idea of not having to sit in front of a computer to create patterns sounds so freeing!
Liz is great, I like her approach focusing on the iPad!!! Also she is great at helping with the business side!
@@zendesignschool that’s so awesome to hear!! One day if I ever get an iPad I’m sure I’ll do a deeper dive into her online ecosystem haha 🫶🏼
I’m gonna have to look into Liz because I have an iPad!
I took the course in 2020 (or 2019, cant remember) was the second edition. Price was 999 USD. Honestly, what we are paying are the extras she keeps adding year after year.. There is very few info on Immersion that was not explained on her Skillshare courses, for example. Everyone can be a surface pattern designer without taking her course. There is this whole glamour thing about the course, but the truth is we really dont need to pay 2k for informations we can have way less expensive in other websites. I also truly dislike the agressive market campaign! I stopped following a lot of designers cause I was sick and tired of receiving dozens of affiliate messages talking about the course from several people. Of course, they do get a lot of money to promote, but i dont like this aggressive way of doing business. For anyone wondering: yes, its possible to make money on this business, but I can guarantee you, the only one doing 7 Figures is BC, selling courses not patterns.
I agree that it has started to feel quite aggressive from some people! Also, 100%, I LOVE my Skillshare subscription. I have learned soooo much on there, and also on UA-cam to be totally honest! It would be interesting to see how much the course has changed since you took it compared to this year's version...
Has your business increased and become more profitable since taking Immersion? That’s what would indicate to me whether it was worth it to spend such a huge amount of money for her course.
Which program is free n good to use ? No adobe or photoshop
Thank you for posting this video. I'm doing the free workshop that she has going on and was thinking about Immersion. The cost seemed so high to me, though. I'm currently in Vanessa Stoilva's Art Business Bootcamp. (She's here on UA-cam.) She's a surface designer now and has made some great progress with what she has learned. Now her videos aren't super "aesthetic" like Bonnie's, but I've learned a lot for A LOT LESS than Immersion. She goes into the nitty gritty of contracts, how to search for art directors, agents, business programs she uses, and so much more. I'm going to stick with her since it seems Bonnie doesn't get to that stuff like I want. Thanks again for posting this video!
That sounds like an awesome bootcamp! I’ve never heard of Vanessa Stoilva before, so I’m totally going to check her out. I agree - if you’re looking to get a lot of nitty gritty info about the business side of things, it sounds like you’re in good hands!
I found her originally for picture books and watched her transition into a surface designer. Her channel here is Art Business with Ness, if you’re interested. 😊
@@meganj1411 thanks so much for the tip! 🫶🏼
Thank you! Apparently I am her subscriber on UTube @@meganj1411
I also took Immersion in 2023, and I agree with everything you said! I have no regrets and it was worth it for me, but for the vast majority of us, the path to earning money in surface design is much longer and harder than the success stories she shares. Thank you for your review... I couldn't have said it all better myself.
It's always encouraging to hear from folks who had a similar experience! It helps a lot with the instant self-doubt that comes with posting a video like this -- haha! But yes, I 100% agree. I really do think that there are opportunities out there for folks who are willing to put in the work, though!
Hi Sarah! As you know, I took immersion in 2023 with you and I agree with everything you said in the video. I think as a newbie in SPD, the deep diving into illustrator was actually a big pro for me. I’m still working thru the course and I think the information was very valuable. I loved the goodie box we got and the workbook because I just love having something I can actually write on and keep track of what I’m doing. The “one thing a day” idea is also something that helped me try to get things done towards my end goal. I am disappointed in the fact that we didn’t get much of the business side of things which is obviously something that we’re gonna need - to get our own business up and running. I didn’t really like the fact that we were offered an additional membership - after paying so much for the course. I just didn’t have that kind of money.
Hi Yeny!! I totally agree with you on all of the above. It is a big perk that we get lifetime access to the course! It’s nice to be able to take it at your own pace 💕
@@pepostudios exactly! I love that about the course!
I took immersion in 2022. I loved Bonnie and the Immersion course. I have to agree with the pros and cons of the course you listed. I'm still working on finding my personal style but enjoying the process. I also work full-time as an RN and work at my SPD in the margins of most days, but not every day (if I'm being honest). I am grateful for Bonnie and her course, it introduced me to a world I didn't know existed. 😊
Totally, I feel the same way! I've recently been reading a lot of dialogue online both in favor of and against Immersion, but I think the truth is that Bonnie introduced so many folks to the world of SPD and, without her, we would have no idea that it existed. So, even though it's not necessarily all sunshine and rainbows, I'm always going to be grateful to her for introducing me to this entire industry! Thanks so much for leaving your comment, Leslie 🫶
I got a lot from the comment section, thank you :) Gosh I followed Bonnie since 2014, 10 years! I haven't kept track though but did see she has a very expensive course and one I doubt will take. I think I will just go with skillshare and research the names listed in the comments and learn what they have to offer too.
I’m so glad to hear it! There have been lots of great discussions in the comments. Skillshare is a really wonderful resource and I have personally learned so much from the classes I’ve taken there. I’m wishing you all the best!!
Hey Sarah, Thank you for making this video! I am also a graduate of Immersion 2023 and I pretty much agree with everything you said in this video. I was a complete beginner, had never used Adobe illustrator or photoshop or even any I pad drawing apps. By the end of the course I had a really good grasp on Illustrator and that was also enough for me to figure out how to use photoshop a bit. So I can honestly say the course does a great job teaching the skills for surface pattern design.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience! I think the more people who share openly and honestly, the more informed others will be when making big decisions like this on their own.
Really appreciate the thoughts on the business, licensing and entrepreneurship part of the course. I'm trying to help my wife figure out the business aspect. Started a website and finalized it around October and she's adding to her collections (although now we're considering creating a new site with a different web platform). Hoping she'll stick it out and keep fighting through the self-doubt and difficulties getting starting making actual income because it should be worth it in the long run.
It’s definitely a long run kind of thing! I think for the vast majority of folks it might take a bit of time to start getting momentum, but it sounds like your wife is on the right track ☺️
I truly appreciate your honesty and your willingness to help others. I am currently doing the free class with Bonnie C to see what was her way of doing things. I also took Anne Lafollete’s class and you know, you take what serves you. I have spent money throughout the years in trying this method or the other (in many areas of life) but I have learned that not everyone works the same way and our journeys are totally different even if the aim is the same.
I’m so glad to have found your channel. I appreciate your work!
🥹💕 thank you for your kind words!! I’ve benefitted so much from others who have been kind enough to share their experiences in life openly and honestly, so it’s my mission to do the same. I totally agree - we’re all unique in so many ways, including how we learn new skills. I haven’t heard of Anne Lafollete, but I’ll look her up!
This was such a great overview. I took immersion the same time as you and I seriously thought you were reading my mind when I watched this. With that being said I thought I would mention a bit about my experience. I have been a graphic designer using illustrator since 2010. So I had a pretty good knowledge of Illustrator. So when immersion started I will be honest, I was immediately disappointed to see how much of the course was about teaching illustrator. However….as we dove in I was pleasantly surprised how much she taught that I had never learned. I quickly began to find the value and that excited me. I was basically one of those people you were talking about that had the illustrator background but still learned a ton. I also felt the same way about the community as you. It made me think of a large college campus that there is no way to meet everyone. But I did find the experts, guides and other students that I did interact with very encouraging and helpful. One of my biggest takeaways surprised me…I gained self confidence. I suffer from huge imposter syndrome but immersion and the community built me up. And I did not feel that it was fake at all. I think there was a ton of value in having a group of like minded people. The people in my life compliment my art but they don’t really understand it or what surface pattern design is. I did think it was weird that there were so many alumni in the group because in my “then” mind I couldn’t understand why you would need to take it more than once and these people must have extra money lying around and didn’t take it serious the first time. I think I get it now and am actually on the fence of signing up again. There is so much amazing knowledge thrown at you and your mind can only absorb so much at a given time. Though we have lifetime access to the course we took I can see the value of starting again from where I am now. So much growth has happened over the past year that I could see it taking the momentum I have gained to the next level. I am part of flourish so I am not sure if I will just stay there or take immersion again. Gotta decide quick. Haha. If I could be promised there would be more on the business end with this updated version I would have already signed up. I am like you, I left feeling a little disappointed not having learned more on the business, pitching and licensing end. Have you considered taking it again?
Thank you for sharing your experience, Jennifer! I totally agree that the community was super kind and supportive, and it’s definitely good to connect with other people who GET IT when it comes to surface pattern design work. I haven’t personally considered taking it again because I feel like I already got what I could from Immersion. My workflow is soooo Photoshop focused these days, so I think it’s more worthwhile for me to continue honing my skills in the techniques I love the most. I’m also spending a TON of time learning allll about the business and entrepreneurship side of things, so I’m happy to just keep on doing that!
Sarah, where are you learning about business? I would like.to.sign.up for Immersion but the cost is too high for me. I would lovee to learn about other resources available. I have a Skillshare membership and that is super helpful.
@@mayaeshel Skillshare has been SUCH an awesome resource for me! I love it so much! Mel Armstrong is one of my favorite teachers on Skillshare, so definitely check her out if you haven’t already. In terms of business stuff, my FAVORITE resource for online business content is Wandering Aimfully. I especially love their podcast (it was just renamed to “Growing Steady”). It’s run by a husband and wife team who have been running online businesses for 15+ years and their whole focus is on running calm business. So, instead of focusing on “more, more, more” they really emphasize the importance of defining what is “enough” for you. When I first found them I started with their very first podcast episode and worked my way through them all! They release a new episode every Thursday ☺️. They also have a paid coaching program that I’m a part of now that has a TON of content about every business topic you can imagine, but I made use of their free stuff for a loonnggg time before joining.
Thank you for the detailed response! I love Mel Armstrong, and I signed up for her surface pattern course and am enjoying that. I do believe there so many great resources out there these days. I learned how to create a repeating pattern through Bonnie’s class on CreativeLive and through classes on Skillshare, and will have to build myself some sort of curriculum in order to stay focused. That’s where I really struggle.. Thanks again for all of the helpful advice and information, I am really enjoying your content and channel!
I took the course this year in February 2024, and because I already work full-time as an in-house Graphic Designer, I can only devote, like you, a few hours in the evenings and at weekends and in the holidays to Immersion. I personally think that it is the best course for surface pattern design out there currently, but I have found since that it has no Photoshop training in there, and I would have to take another course, perhaps Sarah Watt's course in Paint to Pattern to gain experience in this software, which I haven't ruled out.
Bonnie's 2024 course is now in 8 modules and because it is more like a 12 week course, I still haven't completed it yet. It is now structured to complete with you working along with the modules over 3 months, 6 months or 12 months, so I am on the 12 month pathway and still on the last few lessons in Module 3, so I have not yet met a repeat pattern module. However, I am not completely new to surface pattern, as I based one of my final modules at University as a mature student in Visual Communication on repeat patterns in the Urban Environment for Interiors and Giftware, writing my own briefs, designing and creating my own digital patterns for my final show which was First Class for that module. This is why I felt that an online course would really help me come away from.being just another corporate designer.
I also bought a course called 'Pattern It Up' which was only $300, with the proceeds of a freelance job in May 2021 offered by Okscancia Textile Design School, which also offers training using Adobe Illustrator, but whose training uses scripts and actions set up for you in the programme.. Similarly to Bonnie Christine, Oksana has no formal design training, but teaches you some drawing skills to encourage you to scan into your computer to manipulate in Adobe Illustrator. However, compared to Bonnie's course I found Oksana's training to be not quite on a par with Bonnie's although still very good quality as a short course. The membership, however, offered as a free month and then followed by a subscription is really excellent and compared with Bonnie's Flourish of which I am also a member, as I joined when Immersion finished, it only has 6 or 7 students which meet online every Tuesday for Masterclasses, Office Hours and Group Co-Working each for an hour and a half, and Oksana knows everyone and greets us all by name. Bonnie doesn't even know I exist! But maybe I just haven't pushed myself enough with Flourish as I only really have the time for the one membership and of course to fully complete Immersion to the very end so that I can finally open the Graduation Letter and celebrate! But only after I complete it and find the elusive TEST that apparently exists somewhere. You need to take this test or quiz which is somewhere hidden in the later modules, and then you are a legitimate graduate and are legally allowed to be in Flourish (although I heard it was at one time offered to everyone, not just graduates of Immersion). But one final comment on Immersion, it just makes me feel so special, even though we never actually communicated, she just does with the quality of the course, the way it is so skillfully designed, with the box full of goodies, planting seeds that represent you as a student and your progress, and her enthusiasm and drive, which I just haven't seen in Oksana's courses, and also not in some others, and there are a lot out there. In fact, I am torn because I would quite like to do a photoshop based course by a designer/teacher based in the UK, and I do think there are at least one or two - Natasha Gulliford looks quite a talent - she specialises in painterly florals.
Can you tell me if you had to do this test/exam in the 2023 version of Immersion and pass it?
Pam Terry
Thank you so much Sarah for this detailed and honest review! I really needed this, it was so helpfu!!
You are so welcome!! 🫶🏼
Affinity Designer is fantastic for pattern design also. It makes pattern creation so enjoyable and satisfying.
I’ve heard really good things about it! I’ll have to try it one day!
Thank you so much for this review. I was in Immersion 2024, unfortunately I didn't see your review before I took Immersion. I fully agree with everything you said! For me the investment was worth it, I have signed my first contract with my dream company. But I didn't follow Bonnies 'rules' as I designed designs for digital printing (very colorful). If I had known before that designing digital prints was much easier in PhotoShop I would have taken a PS course in stead of Immersion. On the other hand I wouldn't have gotten my contract without Immersion as someone there noticed my work. I have fully used the community in Immersion which was of great help to learn everything I wanted to learn. The last week was connecting week with Flourish members but this wasn't a success. By the time people started connecting and handing out each others mail addresses, the pulled the plug from connecting. This was the moment the business from Bonnie was in danger and she felt she had to protect that. For me as a student this didn't feel right. So overall I'm happy I took Immersion, I learned loads of things to get a step closer of becoming a fulltime designer. But now I need to learn more about PS because I see more future there.
Thank you! Beginner here, sometimes I feel as if I need to dive head first into buying courses. The information is out there if you really want to find it
You’re so welcome, Shuntega!! You’re so right, there’s lots of good info out there ☺️. I always have to take a step back before I jump into any new course or purchase in general haha. Always better to sit back for a while than to buy these things impulsively!!
I also took Immersion 2023 and participated in an Immersion study group. You did a phenomenal job explaining what can be expected in the program, along with the pros and cons. I agree 100% with your assessment! Good job. 👍🏾
I’m so glad to hear that my assessment of the course aligned with yours! Hope all is well in your surface pattern design endeavors 🙌🏼
I took it with you in '23 and mostly agree with everything you said. It was a great intro into SPD, now I am learning from other people in different online spaces. I am in Flourish, paid for one year, so I cannot cancel it until May. It is overwhelming and not too much of Bonnie there, more experts. Flourish is not for everyone I guess, so better to join for one month and see if it fits :) Your affiliate link in the end made me smile haha
It’s really interesting to hear about what it’s like inside Flourish! So, what do you think? Do you find it valuable? Are you planning to cancel in May?
I haven't opened it for a few months, lots of mindset classes and huge community... I'm in Power Sellers Academy by Erin Kendal and it's my fav membership. Also Patternfolk is getting better and better every month. I also bought a few under 100 dollars Procreate classes - full on learning and exploring ☺️
Thank you so much for your honest review. I really appreciated your approach to how you presented the information, and I found it very valuable.
I’m so glad to hear that this was helpful!
Gosh i appreciate this so much. I thought about joining but the cost was the biggest reason i didn't then i found liz Kohler-Brown and affinity designer which i love way more than illustrator. I totally got that feeling from the surface pattern world that if i don't use illustrator i am not a real designer. But thats just not true.
I’ve heard so many good things about Liz Kohler-Brown’s membership! I love seeing her stuff on Instagram. And, exactly!! You DEFINITELY don’t need to design in Illustrator to be a “real” designer! There are sooooo many examples of successful designers who use a wide range of programs. I’m a big believer in doing whatever feels best for you 🫶🏼
Thank you so much for this. I have been considering taking the immersion course or something similar, but on reflection this one may not be for me. I've been a full time illustrator and artist for nearly 30 years, (mainly children's books and ceramics, but looking to venture into other surface design) and while I use Adobe Illustrator regularly it really isn't my preferred medium. I like my designs to have a hand painted feel, and often this is lost with vectors. To be honest I was a little turned off when Bonnie mentioned God a couple of times, and the material seemed quite US-centric. (Nothing wrong with either, but I'm a UK atheist, haha) Thank you so much for helping me make my decision, and good luck in your career. Great video!
You’re so welcome! I’m totally there with you - I’m a raster girl through and through 😆. If you’re on Skillshare, Cat Coquillette and Mel Armstrong have some AMAZING courses about SPD in photoshop if that’s more your style!
Wow, another great video. I've actually never heard of this course. I took Jenna Rainey's Brand + Brand course. I loved it. You totally answered one of my mental questions in this video about Photoshop vs Illustrator and which is better for creating patterns. I too, favor the painted look so I think I'll be sticking with Photoshop. I love learning about your journey because I feel like I'm almost at the same point in my potential art business. I don't have a full time job outside the home, but I've got 5 kids 😅. And it gives me hope knowing there are other people trying to do this. I REALLY hope you get successful.
Super helpful, thank you for this review. I was wondering if I should save up and this gave me my answer. ;) I am enjoying all of your videos - thank you for sharing so much helpful advice. Especially for the super newbie who is just processing if this is something I should pursue or not.
I’m so glad you found it helpful!! I, of course, can’t give great advice without knowing your situation, but I will say that if you’ve found something that lights you up inside it’s definitely worth pursuing! But that can look so different for every person. Pursuing something can start with just baby steps to test the waters, ya know? No need to dive into the deep end straight away!
When I was brushing up on my surface design after a 10 year hiatus in a different art field from being an in-house artist for a wholesale company, I looked into some of these courses in case I missed anything while I was gone. You are right. While you do get a bunch of information, more so if you're new to the industry, the whole point is selling a product and keeping you coming back for more. They will not give you all of the information you need if they are selling courses, unfortunately and it can leave a bad taste in your mouth feeling like you are being let down. You are also right in that they will not give you all of their techniques for creating a business because that makes you competion, or like me, mislead as to the amount of success they really had with the course they are promoting. I took another course, not this one, but similar.
It’s interesting to hear that you had some overlapping experiences even with a different course! At the end of the day, I’ve come to realize that success in this industry really comes down to lots of hard work, dedication, and a desire to make the world a little more beautiful. There’s really no “get rich quick” (or, “get licensed quick”) shortcut!
Hey Sarah, thanks for your thoughtful perspectives - your presentation of your review was informative and genuine, which I really appreciated. I'm curious -- only if you're comfortable answering -- if you could go back in time, do you think you would still choose to take this course? Or do you feel there are other comparable/more valuable resources out there for that pricepoint?
Hi! Thanks for your comment 😊 So, I think different people will definitely have different answers to your question, which is something to keep in mind. For me personally, I do not regret taking it and I do think I'd take it again if I went back in time. Putting aside my qualms with the way the course is marketed, I really do think that two huge benefits for me were that 1) making that investment really kicked things into gear for me in terms of getting the ball rolling with my own creative business goals because I wanted to make Immersion "worth it", and 2) I learned how an online course can be REALLY well done (which is helpful for me since I want to create my own courses one day).
THAT BEING SAID, I don't foresee myself being one of the Immersion alums who retakes the course in the future. I honestly hardly ever use Illustrator for my patterns these days, and I generally feel like I've already gotten what I can out of the course. If you want to learn Illustrator (especially for SPD), Immersion will 100% teach you everything you need to know. I've heard from others that the accountability aspect of taking the course with a community is helpful for folks who might not hold themselves accountable if they were to e.g., watch a bunch of Skillshare courses on their own. Speaking of Skillshare, though, I've taken a gazillion courses on Skillshare and have looovveeed so many of them. I think that if you're willing to cobble together your own curriculum, you can definitely find the resources you need on places like Skillshare. But then the onus falls on you to make sure you are actually taking the most relevant courses (and that you actually finish them/implement what you've learned). You'll get a lot more structure in a big course like Immersion, which has definitely been beneficial for some folks.
Anyway, to wrap up my novel (lol), I know it's kind of annoying when the answer boils down to "it depends" so please let me know if you have any follow-up questions that I can answer to help you figure out what's best for you!
This was an informative video. I have not taken Immersion, but have had lots of FOMO. Your thorough review is helpful.
I DID take another course, Leverage Your Art, which was more about the business side of art. It was quite informative and taught so much from an art business perspective, but not the nitty gritty of ‘setting up a business’. These teachers probably have to stay clear of that aspect so that they are not considered to be giving legal advice.
In Leverage, I felt some of the same cons that you felt, overwhelm of community, teaching about a subject (licensing) then dangling the extra tools before you for an additional fee, post selling other courses, etc. They are probably all worth what is being charged, but it just gets overwhelming. I was not able to participate in the small groups (which I probably needed the most), because it was also an ‘additional fee’ to do that part 😢, and I was already scraping to do the basic course. These teachers that do these big courses seem to be following Stu McLaren’s structure (at least I think that is his name). So, I finally just realized that I needed to expect pretty much the same from all of them about the post selling, etc. But overall, I was still glad I took it.
Honestly, my issue in building an art business is that I did not have a pre-existing body of work and a signature style before taking that course. Because of that, I ended up on information overload and have spent the last year trying to do too many things at one time, before I have really discovered completely who I am as an artist. And I have done so many other tasks, that I have hardly even created any fresh watercolor art. 😮
Sometimes I just have to laugh at the people that look at my art and say, “You could make money at that! You should try to sell it!” 🤦♀️ They just have no idea of all the steps that go into digitizing, uploading, and lots of other business details in between. Although, I gotta say, that for some people it just seems to happen effortlessly. I am NOT one of those people.
Anyhoo, I am a watercolor lover here, have messed around with Illustrator, Photoshop, and Procreate for repeat patterns. I have learned loads from Skillshare (and even some of the teachers you referenced). I’ve toyed with the idea of doing Immersion, so I really appreciate this insightful breakdown of the course.
I wish I saw this before😊 I took immersion this year 2024. After thinking a lot about it cos it is a lot of money. Totally agree with you on the pros and cons! I went in determine to finish the course with a collection and expecting to learn about the business side in details. The feedbacks on design and questions during the course was super fast, very positive and encouraging. I wish they would be more about how to develop the design to a better version. And on the business chapter, agree with you, it felt short. And to learn more it would cause extra to join a community to get info on things to start your business or to get licensing deals, etc. I think the chapter sequence is a bit confusing. At the end I had to write all the key components down and rearrange them on the wall to see the big picture😂 Also after finishing, I was super confused about my signature style as i felt restricted to vectorize everything.
My conclusion is that it is a well design course. Unfortunately, I haven’t learnt a lot of new things from this since I went to design school, started pattern design from a few skillshare classes and have been doing works using ps and ai for a while now. Although if I was very outgoing and liked good online connections, I would probably benefit more.
I was designing patterns since around 2014 as a graphic designer. Then I took immersion in 2021 and again in 2022. I loved the community. So far I have gotten one licensing deal so it was worth it for me. I feel like if your on the fence don’t do it but if you eat breathe and sleep design like me and are willing to put in the work you should totally do it. I even may take immersion again in the future because I miss the community and feedback. I was in flourish when it first came out but flourish wasn’t really worth it for me personally because with life I just wasn’t able to participate as much. However for me immersion was worth it but I also am pretty sure it was not as expensive when I took it but we also did not get a printed out workbook either. I’m not sure the average surface pattern designer can make a living doing it which is probably why so many designers have their own courses.
That’s so awesome that you’ve had a licensing deal!! I love to hear it! And I’m really glad that you found Immersion to be worth it for you 🙌🏼. I agree that many artists supplement their licensing incomes with other revenue sources, but I also don’t personally see this as a bad thing (as long as they’re open and honest about it) because it’s super common for self-employed people to have multiple revenue streams anyway, and they all take work!
Look at it as Level One and Level Two+. It’s worth it. I’ve done/am doing both.
I agree 💯 with you assessment. Especially the “success” stories and the only reason I joined flourish is the entrepreneur aspect and now you have to email to leave flourish and it’s a lot of recycled information.
Her product is quality and she likable and creates a good environment
That’s really interesting that you have to email to leave Flourish… hmmm. But yeah, I totally agree with you! Like, Immersion is genuinely a top-tier course in terms of its presentation and content, I think I just have some issues with the way it’s marketed re: selling the “dream”, you know? I get that from a marketing perspective it makes sense to sell a transformation but I’ve also learned that we, as consumers, should learn that whenever something sounds too good to be true, it probably is 😅. Idk, like I said in the video it’s definitely nuanced and I don’t mean to come at anyone for running a business! ALSO, I heard that Bonnie actually did add more entrepreneurship stuff to this year’s version of the course because a lot of the feedback she got about the course was related to that, so that’s potentially good news!
Immersion 2021 & 2022 alumni there! I have felt the same. I joined when it was cheaper. I felt like the modules were missing something. My peer group was free to join and we still meet. I would also add that any updates to the Immersion course should have been included in the initial cost not a alumni price ongoing each year. Flourish member too and Bonnie isn’t as present in the community as she used to be. I’d rather hear more from Bonnie in the community. 2024 version looks to have more modules and was on the fence to join this year. I think it’s worth investing in the course but plan to spend a lot of time creating a signature style and then collections.
I wish we had access to updates, too! That would be really nice. It’s interesting to hear that Bonnie isn’t as present in Flourish as she used to be. It certainly does seem like things have changed a lot for her and her business in the past few years, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing! But different for sure. I saw that the new version does look to have some more modules! She mentioned that she got a lot of feedback from past years that people wanted more entrepreneurship information in the course and she said she added stuff to those modules, so I will be curious to see if others feel the same way.
Yes, I joined it in 2022 too and the business part for me wasn't worth it. In 7 days it is impossible to decide if the course is worth it... And above I said the same thing - with Adobe CC constantly updating, Bonnie should of be giving at least that part to alumni to watch for free.
First off thank you for doing this review, appreciate your effort and transparency! Your review is quite telling how the public perception and almost cult-like status Bonnie has in the pattern world. In the video, you're almost apologetic for your criticism even though you're 100% entitled to have your opinions about the course. I think a heavier criticism could be geared toward the course's price and constant upselling. Sure if compared to college courses in the USA it might be cheap and great, but if you compare it to all the free resources available online it sounds like it's not that great of a deal. I wouldn't be satisfied if I took a $2050+ course and major components were lacking (like the licensing and business part), but I feel like people love Bonnie and because of that are willing to accept more flaws.
Made my comment without watching the last minute. With an affiliate link available the positive tone of the video makes more sense now I guess. There's a reason UA-cam has a "Paid sponsorship" feature, and I get that this isn't your typical ad or that you have been paid upfront, but having an affiliate link gives this video other motives other than just a review, and it might be a good idea to mention at the start of a video for transparency.
@@jonas_welin Hi! Your comment is super perceptive, and I appreciate you for taking the time to share your thoughts. I want to address the affiliate link thing because I agree with you 100% that it can come off as ingenuine if it feels like you're trying to be sold something. I was so back and forth about whether I even wanted to include an affiliate link for this reason -- I don't want folks to trust my opinion LESS because of it. I promise you that I wrote this whole video script before I even had an affiliate link, and as I describe in the video, my goal is NOT to sell anybody Immersion. There are a ton of Immersion affiliates who will flood your Instagram feed and your inbox with sales pitches, but that will never be me. I wanted to make this video to give an honest review of the course, and the reason that I included the link is that I envisioned that there would be folks who would watch the video and conclude that it WAS the right thing for them, so my thought process was that the link was just a way that those folks could help support my channel.
In terms of my apologetic approach to my criticisms, I can assure you that that's just my personality 😅 I'm, in many ways, your classic Midwestern, non-confrontational, people pleasing kinda gal, so I often shy away from stirring the pot or ruffling any feathers. And I'm an optimist (to a fault, sometimes), so I always do try to give people the benefit of the doubt. That said, I totally agree with you that I (and anybody else) am definitely allowed to have opinions about things, and I am trying to be less of a people pleaser haha. I also agree with you about there being an abundance of free and low cost resources online, and my hope with this video is that folks will be better able to discern whether they feel comfortable spending so much money on something like Immersion after seeing what it’s like on the inside.
Anyway, all that to say I genuinely promise I’m not trying to swindle anybody and am truly just hoping to provide my insight and honest opinions with this video.
@@pepostudios Thanks for your reply. First off I want to apologize for my comment, I came off too harsh. I felt a bit deceived when I saw the affiliate link in the end and that probably shows in the tone of my comment. I don't think your review wasn't honest, and I think it's a good review but as I mentioned I feel like you downplayed the things you didn't like about the course. And online it's hard to know why someone approached things a certain way or their motives, but I appreciate your explanation.
Your opinions and voice are worth a lot and I appreciate your openness, transparency, and all the content you make.
@@jonas_welin no need to apologize, I totally get where you’re coming from and I genuinely don’t mean to deceive or trick anyone. I appreciate you for watching my video and taking the time to share your thoughts 🫶🏼
Bonnie is such a great motivator and teacher. Probably I would totally go for Immersion, but I don't really want to use Illustrator. Thank you for this video. I really like how you explain things!
Aawww thank you!! I totally agree, she genuinely is great at both of those things. I have a Skillshare membership and have found it to be sooooo valuable in terms of learning ~non-Illustrator~ techniques for SPD, so I’d definitely recommend that as an option!
@@pepostudios thanks, yes I have a Skillshare membership, I will check new classes on SPD 💕
Bonnie has lots of SPD friends and Sarah Watts teaches Photoshop, in case it is closer to you
You do not need illustrator you can SPD with Procreate and a Ipad or just use photoshop!
@@lynnandscottmitchell7593 yesss! I love both of those! I’ve made 99% of my patterns with Photoshop hahah.
Thx for your honest, thorough review! Definitely feel this solidified my desire to take Immersion, but as noted, price point may require I wait until I can make sure I give it the attention it needs so that I don’t feel I paid to have it sit on the shelf lol. Again, thank you 💙
Also, you’re great, just wanted to throw that in there 😂.
@@believablyme omg thank you! 😭💕🫶🏼 I totally hear ya. The good news is that you get lifetime access to the version of the course you buy, so you really can take it at your own pace. One of the ladies in the group of people I spoke to who took it with me last year is still working her way through the course for the first time, so that’s 100% an option! As long as you’re okay with the fact that community support stops a month after the end of the course, it really doesn’t matter how long it takes you to go through it.
thanks for this info.
great video and review! thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I was kinda thinking about taking the course because i have been BOMBARDED with ads, but i will probably be skipping this as I'm not a very good student 😅
Soooo true, I’m getting those ads too!! You should 1000000% do what’s right for you and do NOT feel pressured to take it just because of ~internet pressure~ haha. The good news is that there are soooo many wonderful ways to learn online (including a ton of free/low cost options) so I’m sure you’ll be able to learn anything in a way that works with your learning style, regardless of if you’re a “good” student or not 🫶🏼
Thank you for this, i want to preserve my watercolor painterly look so this course wouldn't have been what I needed, and I feel a lot better about this decision after watching this. THANK YOU!! I Also wanted something more business related. We'll see if Leverage Your Art is THAT!! Cause I just signed up for it😂
I’ve heard some great things about Leverage Your Art! I haven’t personally taken it, but I know people who have and who have loved it. I hope you find it super valuable!! 🙌🏼
Thank you for doing this. Pretty sure Bonnie would have had you take it down if you were a thumbs down on the course. I appreciate your honesty.
I mean, I’ve been wondering if anyone from Team Bonnie would have beef with my video, haha. So far nothing! 😅 my only goal is to be totally honest and transparent about my experience!
I’m currently doing Immersion for the second time and although I love most things about the course for various reasons, I totally agree that Illustrator is NOT the be all and end all for creating patterns. I totally get that it’s the program that’s used and taught in the course, and that’s fine, but I agree that it shouldn’t be framed as the ONLY program. There are far more affordable and user-friendly options like Affinity Designer - although, yes, admittedly it’s a little behind in some functionality at the moment, such as no image trace, but the simplicity of functions like symbols and clipping masks highlight how clunky some of Illustrator’s processes are. I’ve done the course twice and haven’t used Illustrator once :D
That’s so interesting to hear that you’re taking it as an alum even though you don’t use Illustrator! So, do you mainly use Affinity Designer then? I totally agree that Illustrator is certainly not the only program - I know sooooo many designers who use a wide range of different options and are totally successful in their licensing endeavors.
@@pepostudios Pretty much! I use Affinity Designer version 2 on my iPad (I also use Procreate a lot). I learnt Designer via Skillshare and can apply/translate a lot of Illustrator lessons to Affinity - not everything, but enough. I highly recommend Weronika Salach‘s Skillshare class on using automated pattern templates (‘Surface Pattern Design in Affinity Designer: Ditsy Floral Half-Drop Repeat Pattern’) - no more manual copy/pasting motifs from one side of Illustrator to the other!
Thank you!! This was very helpful ❤
I’m so glad to hear it! Let me know if you have any questions 🫶🏼
WOW! Could you do a video, on your Motifs Please
Tell me more about what you had in mind!
Thanks for this. Really helpful.
I’m so glad it was helpful!!
Thank you. That was helpful.
So glad to hear it was helpful ☺️
Thank you for this honest review. 😊
You’re so welcome! Hope it was helpful!
I was in her membership for a while. Not her new class. I ended up leaving because I’m a digital artist on my iPad. She is very heavy into Illustrator. It was just not for me. But I do need to learn Photoshop. I also tried Affinity on my iPad. It is not for me. I use Procreate and Photoshop. I feel you can learn all this in Skillshare rather than spending 2K. The ads are enticing.
Photoshop is awesome, I use it for everything!! I’m really thinking about getting an iPad soon and playing with the world of digital illustration, so I’m super excited about learning procreate. It’s definitely a myth that you need to work in Illustrator to be successful in surface pattern design!
Thank you for this!
You’re welcome! Glad it was helpful!
I just bought immersion 2024 and now after watching this, I am really reconsidering my purchase 😅 thanks for reviewing, I don’t have an extra $2000 to just burn 🔥 to learn illustrator ~ I do think that’s a valuable skill / tool but not worth $2000 ~ Im not an absolute beginner to digital illustration, and feel confident that I can learn illustrator on my own tbh ; I don’t have problems making art and coming up with ideas, I’m more interested learning how to start a business / build website / portfolio/ finding clients/ customizing products / running a shop and I’m wondering if this immersion is not actually going to solve the issues I’m facing ? Would appreciate feedback 🙏
Hi Jeanne! So, Immersion definitely gives a good starting point for all of those topics. There’s a stronger focus on art licensing than on running a product based business, but there is some information about how you can turn your artwork into products if that’s more aligned with what you were thinking. Are you familiar with Stacie Bloomfield? I haven’t taken her signature course (Leverage Your Art), but I do know she runs a product based business and I hear she teaches a lot about the entrepreneurial side of running an art business. Also, it’s worth noting that Bonnie mentioned that shes gotten a lot of feedback in the past few years that her students wanted more information about the business side of SPD, so she’s apparently added content to those sections for this year’s version of the course. Since you did decide to buy it, while you’re on the inside I’d just poke around as much as you can to see if you can get a sense of the lessons that are coming to see if they align with your hopes!
@@pepostudios oh my gosh that is such a good point about “what is the endgame” and reverse engineer the path to getting there! Thanks so much for the feedback! Honestly I feel relieved and think I would like to take Stacie’s Leverage course as well, once I have a solid body of work ~ thanks again 🙏☺️
You can get your money back I think within the first seven days of the course.
@@staciedale5626 i saw that! Which I think is awesome … ultimately I decided to stick it out! I always get buyer’s remorse after a big purchase, especially if it’s something for myself.. I did contemplate the return, even filled out an email .. but I never sent it, and am now feeling more excited about the new opportunity.. the expense is still hard to fathom for someone like me, but I’m hopeful the education and experience will be foundational.. thanks for the input!! ☺️
I spoke to someone who did the course as I was thinking of signing up. I was told that, given lots of time you could find all the things you learn on Immersion by going online and by looking at other courses. However, the advice I was given was that BC’s course has it all in one place. The book is great. All of us from outside the USA felt left out. BC is just blind to the way American culture is so different to elsewhere in the world. It’s a shame, I just kept thinking “ you act like that in the UK people will think you are just pushy” that’s why I love the USA - people are approachable and you are encouraged to be a go-getter but that approach doesn’t work very well here. So I felt left out of the culture a lot of the time. Is it worth it. I think so.
I want a more hand painterly affect for my designs. Is there a course that you are aware of that teaches photoshop instead? Thank you so much for this review I really appreciate this I was considering taking the 2025 course it's just so attractive the way it's presented. I am re-considering this now..
Well, shameless plug for a short series I have on my channel that walks you through how you can take your watercolor paintings and turn them into repeating patterns in Photoshop! You can watch it here: ua-cam.com/video/2SPnlrx0bIg/v-deo.htmlsi=3RLuZ1-Onv-VR-uo
If you're on Skillshare, I really like Cat Coquillette's class on this topic, and Mel Armstrong has a bunch of really wonderful surface pattern design courses, too. It sounds like you'd definitely be somebody who will get a lot of value from using rasters instead of vectors!
Thank you so much for such a great review of the course. Would you please make another review about Stacie’s course too: it’s called How to Leverage your Art. Thank you 😊
I’ve never taken Stacie’s course before, unfortunately!
Good review, thanks. Yes unfortunately a business has a bottom line of making a profit and she probably had a consultant design the sequence of upselling. It can be a turn off. But if you expect it, then so much the better. However, it can be distressing to people who don't have a lot of money to invest in a course like this then feel like they are missing out because - the next great tip is around the corner and costs more. I experienced the same in a business course for artists - overwhelm by the amount of information, almost too much, plus we had to print out all of our materials. I like that BC provides a printed workbook. I did meet a core group of great women in my study group (in this other course) and we are still meeting a year and half later.
I totally agree that if you see it coming it can be a lot better and easier to manage expectations! There’s definitely a sweet spot between underwhelm and overwhelm in the online course world, and it can be tricky to hit that mark. I totally agree that the printed workbook was super valuable. I still pull it out as a reference doc from time to time. So cool that you’re still meeting with your study group!!
This is when I feel always not really motivated when,people selling their courses, refer to how much value is there in comparison with what you pay for a semester study at university - and you come from a country,where all university degrees studies are FREE of charge including Ph.D. …Then I’m like well,the course price still sounds pretty high to me considering I didn’t pay a penny for any of my years at university..
We’re DEFINITELY doing things wrong in the U.S.!! I studied in France for a semester and my university fees were only €300 for the entire semester… sigh 😅
If Bonnie was really killing 💰💰💰it as a surface pattern designer then that’s where her focus would be, in making patterns instead of upselling expensive courses. She probably realized very quickly that the money is in teaching courses after seeing how well her Skillshare classes have done. The cost of immersion is ridiculous and even worse she continues to hike up the price every new enrollment. I had my doubts about taking the course but now I definitely will not if information about the business aspect in surface pattern design is minimal and barely covered which is very essential to a newbie in the field. That’s so wrong and unfortunate. I will just stick to UA-cam which has a ton of free classes on Adobe Illustrator and keep doing research about the business aspect or just go out there and do it! That’s really the way we all get experience at anything that we do. I’m sure that’s how it was for Bonnie in her early years…trial and error. Thank you for the inside details in this video, very helpful.
I’m glad this video was helpful! I also wanna say that I definitely don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong about selling courses or digital products. Most people who are self employed develop multiple different streams of income to help with the inevitable fluctuations of every income stream, and I totally get that. So, like, I don’t personally harbor any judgement for the artists and designers who choose to also create courses or sell ebooks or whatever, because I think that many of them are genuinely sharing super valuable information, and they’re managing their businesses well, and creating a comfortable life for themselves. Love that for them! My issue is when I feel blindsided by these things, where you’re promised one thing and delivered another, or just sold a dream, you know? Or when the marketing feels a little out of hand and can start to feel a bit sleazy. But yeah, I totally agree that there are so many amazing free or low cost resources on UA-cam or Skillshare that have been soooo valuable to me as I’ve learned about surface pattern design, and I know you’ll be able to learn so much that way too!
I worked out that she makes turns over $6 million each time she runs Immersion. Now that’s gross, not profit. But it’s a lot of money.
Flourish is an annual fee, correct? So, she's securing return clients. Whereas Immersion is a one-time thing. She's not hurting for cash, she retired her husband :P
I took the course years before, but it was a big investment for me even for 1200$. I already worked in this field I just wanted to know more about the business side and how to make more money, and as you mentioned this part was really superficial. (Or practically saying you have to sold courses to earn well, because just licensing is not so much) A little bit disturbing to get often in mail new opportunities to spend money on her memberships and other inventions. I learned some great informations during the course, but not sure these informations worth me this amount of money. Or suspecting that I could already find this infos on the internet. Hm…
Thanks for your insight!! It’s interesting to hear that even though you took an older version of the course, you still share a lot of the same opinions as I do. I feel similarly about the upsells, and don’t love feeling like someone is trying to get as much $ out of their customers as possible, if that makes sense. I agree that there’s a ton of amazing information out there on the internet, but I will admit that it is really nice to have it in a super organized, easy to access way like you have in a well-designed course. Such a tricky balance, though.
You don’t need to pay 2k for immersion when literally her same course content is on skillshare. In my opinion it is not worth it.
I mean I’ve gone through both and I do think Immersion is much more thorough (and Bonnie’s Skillshare courses are pretty old at this point, so worth keeping in mind). But I totally agree that her Skillshare courses do provide a solid overview, not to mention the fact that there are sooooo many other amazing classes on Skillshare. Tbh the majority of the SPD skills I use on a day to day basis are things I learned on Skillshare!
What I truly failed to understand is if people not willing to put their time and effort into a thing which they are passion about than obviously they will be tempted to go for a high paid course which is hyped up to turn their fortunes around.
The price for the course keeps hiking and the fact that she charges for the "Study group" is disappointing. Lots of people make a sacrifice to take her course and charging extra for work she and or her team are not doing is plain sinful. The leader and the team members are putting the effort. Yes, she or her team suggests this but charging for it as if the course price is not high enough is outrageous, especially in this economy. The truth is that BC and her company mastered bottling everything and selling it and people keep just giving her their hard earned money.
I took Immersion and gave up my subscription of Adobe- it's so expensive to maintain and I wasn't making money enough to justify it. I have found several other artists who have courses that are this expensive and have the same structure. I wonder who came up with this idea to make money? It does seem like a lucrative business model and the push to join is very strong. Immersion was interesting, but you can learn the basics of the process without it. The focus on Adobe is frustrating. I think Adobe is a scam.
I feel ya - it can super expensive! I personally do find my Adobe subscription valuable because I use photoshop and other programs really regularly, but I totally agree that if you’re not using the programs often, it’s definitely not worth it to maintain that subscription.
Ugh today’s commenters are so fast
Lolol you were pretty quick too!!
Greetings! I have watched other videos of yours. You are delightful and informative. Thank you! Yes, I am 90% “in” for the upcoming class. Your input has been constructive.
@@jillparody9750 hi Jill! So glad you’ve found my videos to be informative 🥰 Let me know if you have other questions about the course!