Thanks for the demo. I have never used either of those. I use Birchwood Casey super blue and the regular blue. The super blue gets dark faster than the regular but both do a great job.
I found the birchwood casey produces a more delicate blue coating than some others but it does look good. It just doesn't seem to last as long. I think it doesn't penetrate as deep. ymmv depending on usage and the type of steel and my testing is not scientific at all. I know people who swear by it.
Thanks for the metal blue video. Gun guy here that used to visit the tool shop guy when he had a real question instead of asking another engineering nerd. (which was why my drawings didn't have revisions on em) Would love to buy one of those 45° Squares.
Loved learning the process and seeing the results. Gives new meaning to watching paint dry tho. Lol. Thanks Stan. Do you have a store where you sell them? If you do you should put a link in the description.
I have used and still use BLACKENER all the time in my shop. I never tried BLUE. I also never tried the gel because I suspected that it would streak and be inconsistent. I use the soak method. I used to use full strength, but recently have started deleting it (as per instructions say, but more concentrated though) with water. The results have always been excellent (as far is this type of product goes), absolutely uniform finish. I have even blackened items for use in my shop, and they stand up well. Just checked the custom Aloris tool post holder I made, like 7 years ago, it has a little rust starting on one corner. But my shop is often real humid and wet, water moves across the floor in areas when it rains. And so, blackening has proved to work well in my case, and for my customers. I have used various brands, appears the only difference is price. This method is definitely not a substitute for the real deal, black oxide. The real method is far better as far as rust prevention goes, durability, and even the look. But, this in house method is the only way to go when you can not afford the minimum price to send out, what is it, around $120.00 or about, and your time and fuel to bring it in, then pick it up. If your item is delicate, do not expect it to come back without any damage. To preserve the items, I just brush on water displacing penetrating oil, any brand will work.
EPI black oxide gel or liquid... I haven't used them before but will try them for my next projects. They offer cold med and high temp solutions. But I have had good luck with that brownell oxpho blue as well.
I've been wanting to do the very same test myself. Now I don't have to! Excellent timing Stan. Ha-ha. I thought maybe it was just me because I don't get great results with the Precision Brand either. Had a couple of parts that came out very nice once - but I didn't do anything differently. I think the type and hardness of the steel makes a huge difference though. Like you, I've had the best results (luck) using the Oxpho-Blue. Only difference is I use the liquid form of both of those chemicals and completely immerse and soak the parts for a few minutes. If I brush it on, I find I get more streaking. Dunking the parts allows the entire surface to react at the same time and pace and I get a more even finish. Great job doing the head-to-head comparison. I'm sure there are others that have been wondering about this as well.
Try a shallow bath of the liquid Oxpho Blue. Quart quantities are less than $40. Place the part in the bath, gently agitate the part in the bath until a brown precipitate forms on the part. Then follow your usual cleaning and oiling procedure.
What is your take on Cerakote? From what I understand, Cerakote is super tough, chem & temp resistant, and they offer many colors. The only down sides I see are cost ($35 - 4oz) and dimensional variations (.5mil to 1 mil avg). I assume the surface thickness of bluing would be minimal compared to Cerakote and better suit your precise tolerances? The Hi temp version is the only one that doesn't require oven heating. Awesome vid.
The Cerakote that most are familiar with requires baking in an oven to cure, which would not meet your criteria. It is a ceramic paint which the gun community really likes due to high wear resistance. It requires very careful prep, usually bead blasting and then solvent cleaning. Applied well it is a very thin layer that works well on moving parts without causing problems with tolerances. Many colors to chose from, which is also nice for guns, knives and such. They do have a new cold version, but I don't know how well it compares.
Good stuff! I've noticed a difference between 70F and 110F temps in the shop when blueing, in other words a nice winter day and a summer day. Maybe I just don't move as fast on those hot summer afternoons, but warmer temps help! Our "tap water" is from a well, so only distilled water for rinsing.
Thanks for a look over your shoulder at your blueing process, Stan. I hope that the only thing that got "pickled" was the squares! Thanks again for the video! Have a good one down there in SoCal! Dave
Have you ever tried the JAX brand blackener? I've used it on several of my projects and it works pretty well. It's a liquid so I put it into a spray bottle and apply that way. See you soon, sir. TZ
i have a process that works very well for me in which i did my sks rifle .it go;s as follows you prep your metal as normal like sand it down with 400 grit paper and go with the grain of the metal . now come the part with a twist ok clean with 99 percent alcohol and let it dry now with a bottle of tarn x wipe your barrel down and let it sit for say like 2 min then steam the living crap out of it or boil it take it out of the boil and steel wool it wit 0000 degreased steel wool and put another coat of tarn x on it and repeat that step . now with the barrel warm take your cold blue i used outter gun blue and wipe it on keeping it wet like for 3 to 4 min then do not wipe it off take it over and steam the crap out of it for like 3 or 4 min now donot wipe it take a hairdryer and blow dry it hmm lot of fine red rust ok now at this point i did not card it i boile the crap out of it and also put some blue in a glass and put it in the micro wave to heat it up like 30 seconds . the gun will air dry rather quickly now apply another coat of blue . and back over to steaming or boiling the crap out of it at this point with clean wool card it off mine was way dark enough at this point but if you need more depth put more blue on it .now at this point do not oil the gun like wd40 or remoil i used vegtable oil with a very very thin film now stick that sucker in the oven for 15 to 20 min at 300 and dont worry 300 wont hurt the metal take it out and let it cool then do the white so called cloth trick mine never had any thing come off what so ever and i polished it to a high gloss with 0000 steel wool i oiled mine like a week latter and it never changed or came of the only thing i can contribute to the durable finish is the tarn x base why it contains phosphoric acid which when left to sit stains the steel a darker color and etches the metal aiding in the bite of the gun blue i have done a couple guns this way with excellent results but may very on some others
good stuff Shandon I see some lazer engraved AvE ruler possibility there. the heat of some of the other methods I guess would probly stress relieve somewhat that cryogenic treating process with the nitrogen would be interesting to see if fresh ones warp then grind em' reinventing the wheel though
try rem oil with Teflon in the spray can not the bottle for blued steel. My dad's rifle was in a damp basement for 8 years and not a drop of rust on it using rem oil with teflon when I inherited it. It is also not sticky. It is the only thing I will use on my blued steel guns. It is also awesome for locks because it will not freeze and doesn't get gummy in high heat.
Precision Brand makes a "kit" that contains a bottle of degreaser/cleaner, a bottle of the tool black solution, and a can of the water displacing oil. (Prevent) It is a bit on the pricey side though...
Thanks for the video Stan! I have been wanting to try the Brownells product on small projects but wasn't sure about the final results, until now. Thanks!
Those squares you did with oxpho-blue will still smell like crap 20+ years later as will you hands after you handle them. Hot blue, niter blue, chemical or slow rust blue, anything but cold blue !!!!!!
Thanks for the demo. I have never used either of those. I use Birchwood Casey super blue and the regular blue. The super blue gets dark faster than the regular but both do a great job.
I found the birchwood casey produces a more delicate blue coating than some others but it does look good. It just doesn't seem to last as long. I think it doesn't penetrate as deep. ymmv depending on usage and the type of steel and my testing is not scientific at all. I know people who swear by it.
Thanks for the metal blue video. Gun guy here that used to visit the tool shop guy when he had a real question instead of asking another engineering nerd. (which was why my drawings didn't have revisions on em) Would love to buy one of those 45° Squares.
Excellent video, Stan. I've used Brownells on firearms in the past, and I've always had good results. Thanks for sharing.
I'm a Gun Smith and have used the Brownells cold blue the more coats the deeper the color and fewer streeks.
I've recently bought a very worn Browning Hi Power and want to refinish it. What would you recommend? Thanks.
Loved learning the process and seeing the results. Gives new meaning to watching paint dry tho. Lol. Thanks Stan. Do you have a store where you sell them? If you do you should put a link in the description.
I have used and still use BLACKENER all the time in my shop. I never tried BLUE. I also never tried the gel because I suspected that it would streak and be inconsistent. I use the soak method. I used to use full strength, but recently have started deleting it (as per instructions say, but more concentrated though) with water. The results have always been excellent (as far is this type of product goes), absolutely uniform finish. I have even blackened items for use in my shop, and they stand up well. Just checked the custom Aloris tool post holder I made, like 7 years ago, it has a little rust starting on one corner. But my shop is often real humid and wet, water moves across the floor in areas when it rains. And so, blackening has proved to work well in my case, and for my customers. I have used various brands, appears the only difference is price.
This method is definitely not a substitute for the real deal, black oxide. The real method is far better as far as rust prevention goes, durability, and even the look. But, this in house method is the only way to go when you can not afford the minimum price to send out, what is it, around $120.00 or about, and your time and fuel to bring it in, then pick it up. If your item is delicate, do not expect it to come back without any damage.
To preserve the items, I just brush on water displacing penetrating oil, any brand will work.
I use Brownell's and have had very good luck with it. Try Browning a set of squares. Like musket brown.
Did you purposely not rub the second Brownell's with steel wool before the 2nd application? Maybe a test of rub and not rub for the 2nd ap?
Yes, still experimenting, very little difference burnished and non burnished.
I thought so. Thanks for the videos. I learn something new everytime I watch.
Do you make those squares? I would like to have one of those small ones. Would you sell?
EPI black oxide gel or liquid... I haven't used them before but will try them for my next projects. They offer cold med and high temp solutions. But I have had good luck with that brownell oxpho blue as well.
Is Wetted a legal word as far as Mr. Webster is considered ?
have you thought about trying slow rust bluing
I've been wanting to do the very same test myself. Now I don't have to! Excellent timing Stan. Ha-ha. I thought maybe it was just me because I don't get great results with the Precision Brand either. Had a couple of parts that came out very nice once - but I didn't do anything differently. I think the type and hardness of the steel makes a huge difference though.
Like you, I've had the best results (luck) using the Oxpho-Blue. Only difference is I use the liquid form of both of those chemicals and completely immerse and soak the parts for a few minutes. If I brush it on, I find I get more streaking. Dunking the parts allows the entire surface to react at the same time and pace and I get a more even finish.
Great job doing the head-to-head comparison. I'm sure there are others that have been wondering about this as well.
I have always had excellent results with Brownells Oxpho blue
Try a shallow bath of the liquid Oxpho Blue. Quart quantities are less than $40. Place the part in the bath, gently agitate the part in the bath until a brown precipitate forms on the part. Then follow your usual cleaning and oiling procedure.
What is your take on Cerakote? From what I understand, Cerakote is super tough, chem & temp resistant, and they offer many colors. The only down sides I see are cost ($35 - 4oz) and dimensional variations (.5mil to 1 mil avg). I assume the surface thickness of bluing would be minimal compared to Cerakote and better suit your precise tolerances? The Hi temp version is the only one that doesn't require oven heating. Awesome vid.
I have heard the same, but never tried it, sounds to me like its more like a paint other than a simple surface treatment.
The Cerakote that most are familiar with requires baking in an oven to cure, which would not meet your criteria. It is a ceramic paint which the gun community really likes due to high wear resistance. It requires very careful prep, usually bead blasting and then solvent cleaning. Applied well it is a very thin layer that works well on moving parts without causing problems with tolerances. Many colors to chose from, which is also nice for guns, knives and such. They do have a new cold version, but I don't know how well it compares.
Thanks for the Lesson and demo! Cheers, ;{)-------
GREAT VIDEO !!
ISN'T COLD BLUE A COPPER PLATTING THAT'S BULE ??
Good stuff! I've noticed a difference between 70F and 110F temps in the shop when blueing, in other words a nice winter day and a summer day. Maybe I just don't move as fast on those hot summer afternoons, but warmer temps help! Our "tap water" is from a well, so only distilled water for rinsing.
Bluing of any type works better at higher temperatures. Good idea using distilled water.
Thanks for a look over your shoulder at your blueing process, Stan. I hope that the only thing that got "pickled" was the squares! Thanks again for the video!
Have a good one down there in SoCal!
Dave
Have you ever tried the JAX brand blackener? I've used it on several of my projects and it works pretty well. It's a liquid so I put it into a spray bottle and apply that way.
See you soon, sir.
TZ
jaxchemical.com/product-category/blackeners/
you know Tom is already preparing a test on the thickness of Bluing :)
I want to see that!!!!!! It would vary with different types of steel however. Temperature can also make a difference.
Very Good Like your work!! From Portugal! =)
I buy brichwood casey at walmart and it works great. Use a stainless steel brush and work it over while it is in the soup and it is even better.
I had to watch this vid in mute. I apologize if you answered my question in the video,but does this prevent rust?
It resists rust.
@@ShadonHKW where do I purchase the mini squares?
i have a process that works very well for me in which i did my sks rifle .it go;s as follows you prep your metal as normal like sand it down with 400 grit paper and go with the grain of the metal . now come the part with a twist ok clean with 99 percent alcohol and let it dry now with a bottle of tarn x wipe your barrel down and let it sit for say like 2 min then steam the living crap out of it or boil it take it out of the boil and steel wool it wit 0000 degreased steel wool and put another coat of tarn x on it and repeat that step . now with the barrel warm take your cold blue i used outter gun blue and wipe it on keeping it wet like for 3 to 4 min then do not wipe it off take it over and steam the crap out of it for like 3 or 4 min now donot wipe it take a hairdryer and blow dry it hmm lot of fine red rust ok now at this point i did not card it i boile the crap out of it and also put some blue in a glass and put it in the micro wave to heat it up like 30 seconds . the gun will air dry rather quickly now apply another coat of blue . and back over to steaming or boiling the crap out of it at this point with clean wool card it off mine was way dark enough at this point but if you need more depth put more blue on it .now at this point do not oil the gun like wd40 or remoil i used vegtable oil with a very very thin film now stick that sucker in the oven for 15 to 20 min at 300 and dont worry 300 wont hurt the metal take it out and let it cool then do the white so called cloth trick mine never had any thing come off what so ever and i polished it to a high gloss with 0000 steel wool i oiled mine like a week latter and it never changed or came of the only thing i can contribute to the durable finish is the tarn x base why it contains phosphoric acid which when left to sit stains the steel a darker color and etches the metal aiding in the bite of the gun blue i have done a couple guns this way with excellent results but may very on some others
Good video sir but super blue looks to work better than both of you test products. Just my observation.
good stuff Shandon I see some lazer engraved AvE ruler possibility there. the heat of some of the other methods I guess would probly stress relieve somewhat that cryogenic treating process with the nitrogen would be interesting to see if fresh ones warp then grind em' reinventing the wheel though
Thanks for doing Stan! 👍
What kind of oil do you use?
Its called prevent, water displacing sealer.
try rem oil with Teflon in the spray can not the bottle for blued steel. My dad's rifle was in a damp basement for 8 years and not a drop of rust on it using rem oil with teflon when I inherited it. It is also not sticky. It is the only thing I will use on my blued steel guns. It is also awesome for locks because it will not freeze and doesn't get gummy in high heat.
Precision Brand makes a "kit" that contains a bottle of degreaser/cleaner, a bottle of the tool black solution, and a can of the water displacing oil. (Prevent) It is a bit on the pricey side though...
Good comparison. Thanks.
Thanks for the video Stan! I have been wanting to try the Brownells product on small projects but wasn't sure about the final results, until now. Thanks!
I prefer Brownell's Formula 44/40 to the OxphoBlue. They have at least 3 or 4 different formulas for sale.
How can I get a set of the squares
www.barzindustrial.com/Products.aspx
Please allow 2-3 weeks delivery, we are backed up.
Those look pretty good Stan. I should do that to the set I bought from you last year.
See you at the bash Jim
I like the untreated, but he brownll's looks better than precision
Maybe a little more zooming in in the actual part...
Thanks for the head to head.
I use the Birchwood-Casey brand. I like how fast it works, give that a try.
Stan put the squares in a ziplock bag and add the gel, close the bag and just knead it in. The swabs look really tedious man.
I tried wrapping them in cellophane a long time ago, they came out all blotchy. Maybe with this new stuff.
Just for coating them then take them out of the bag to react in open air I guess.
Try finishing with beeswax.
What is the point of doing this?
thanks
Those squares you did with oxpho-blue will still smell like crap 20+ years later as will you hands after you handle them.
Hot blue, niter blue, chemical or slow rust blue, anything but cold blue !!!!!!
Rust blue= 212 degrees F
Hot blue= 295 degrees F
Niter blue= 600+ degrees F
You got serious stress problems if a steel part warps in boiling water!!!
Well, there ya go.
0000 steel wool, not 00 steel wool!!!!!!!!
This guy was too slow