@5:03 yes, you do have to grab the cam off the saddle, but you could rest your elbows on the saddle for stability. no, i don't own a cine saddle...i'm a poor filmmaker so i just used an old lowepro sling bag that i had layin' around and filled it w/ a towel. worked out pretty well at my last shoot. and yes, i used the method i mentioned when i had to get the camera higher.
@@CurrenSheldonI’ve owned the sakk (crazy name) for about 4 months now - it’s probably the most useful stabilizer I’ve tried. I can rest a zhiyun gimbal in the sack and shoot all day on it, it really does make things easier. Resting my elbows on it and raising the camera to eye level works well, and for low shots I’ve just placed the sakk on the ground and placed the camera on top of it - not the most elegant way to get a shot but it still worked. Suffice it to say I love the sakk and miss it whenever I use a different stabilizer. 😅
Thank you for taking the time to do this video. I use a gimbal and a gimbal support vest to stabilize my shooting. There's a telescopic pole that I can connect to the gimbal to get the perfect height. It works great.
Great video! I was looking into the SAAK rig so this. video helped a lot. My preferred method of stabilization (outosde of the time consuming gimbal) is to use a monopod.
Nice video... and as everyone has different needs I went for stabilised lenses instead of cine lenses. I do use it on C70. I mostly dont have time to set up anything else.
This was such a great clip! You were super thorough and really balanced in your approach. I can tell you put a lot of thought and effort into comparing the different methods of stabilization, and it made everything so much easier to understand. You've definitely helped me figure out which option is best for my needs. It’s rare to find content like this that's both detailed and impartial, so thanks for putting it together-it's much appreciated!
Thanks for making this video. It is a well thought out test, and the laser pointer is a smart idea! We often have to use different methods, so it's nice to see how they compare. One big consideration is arm and back fatigue. Talk to anyone who has done years of news gathering for TV stations and they will recommend a good chiropractor or two. Monopods are great for shooting events on the move. They also come in handy when you have to grab a quick overhead shot. My Ronin RS 2 is reliable, but I loath doing long shots with it. Tilta's dual handle Float system looks very intriguing, so I may go that route in the future. These rigs are great, but setups can really slow you down if you are working solo. I just ordered the SAKK product, and think it offers a good balance of value, versatility and ease of use. Not having to strap on a vest and spend time balancing a rig is appealing.
Totally - I think a great test would be to test body fatigue/strain - but that's a long test and definitely changes. I just shot a feature doc with an Easyrig and a HEAVY package and my lower back was hurting the first shoot or two, but then strengthened and felt fine the next 4-5 multi-day shoots. So, definitely changes and is person/body type/strength/fitness dependent.
As of today, June 3rd, 2024, out of multiple videos I've ever seen, yours is the BEST & MOST COMPREHENSIVE regarding camera stabilizer reviewing. It's because you cover Easyrig, Handheld, Monopod, Sakk bag, Shoulder Rig and Vest. You also demonstrate their advantages and disadvantages. Thank Curren for such an INTERESTING & USEFUL job! One question, please! If possibile, could you please compare Easyrig STABIL G3 with your monopod system? Easyrig claims it can stabilize camera setups between 5-25 kg / 11-55 lbs. Thanks again.
Thanks so much for the kind words and for watching! I'd love to test out the STABIL G3, but don't have access to one at the moment (and they are pricey!). I am going to do an easyrig vs readyrig comparison soon, though - and maybe throw in the monopod/vest system as a control group.
Great video! And thanks for addressing the actual realities of long-form doc shooting. I've always found that the more equipment you have, the more on-edge you make the interviewee, so I'm always trying to keep it simple for the sake of natural, comfortable dialogue. Turning up in a goofy ass EasyRig just isn't an option. Plus I'm the guy who's got to lug all this stuff around after all. I always shoot from the hip for sit-down interviews because that way you can change angle (push in, go wide etc) whilst the interviewer asks another question. Gives a bit of variety when it comes to the edit rather than jump cutting one long frame. But I also need to be able to get to the shoulder quickly. So my workaround is to set up the camera on the shoulder rig and fix a thick camera strap and hang it off my shoulder, with shoulder pad of the rig resting on my hip/on the belt of my pants. It's not fantastically stable but it is nimble. However I think I'm gonna try it with a saddle bag after watching this. Thanks again!
For all day shoots, I use my FX3/FX6 with a gimbal which is mounted directly to a mechanical support vest, namely the Thanos SE. I can shoot nonstop for hours with that system without much fatigue, if I really need to. You can shoot from eye level to knee level, it’s a pretty good range for most situations. With just a gimbal, it’s nearly impossible to shoot continuously for more than 10/15 minutes without destroying your arms and back. You have to put down your camera every few minutes to recover.
Totally. I wanted to focus specifically on handheld, doc verité techniques, but if you're going to be running a gimbal, you almost have to have something like a vest and arm. Thanks for watching!
A good idea of a video to compare all of these methods. I appreciate the various tests. My favorite stabilization was the EasyRig and CineSaddle. This video test also reminds me that there are different tools for different jobs. Filming in nature using the EasyRig is a breeze. A CineSaddle could be great for smaller spaces. I agree with you handheld is not great for covering scenes. How did you come up with the ideaofousinge a laser and lon-exposure? Also, where can I find the vest from the vested monopod setup?
The general conclusion is: pick the best tool for the job, for sure. But it's not always possible, especially in docs, to bring ALL of these, so you have to choose the most versatile option and what you want to achieve. For the laser pointer, I was trying to think of something that would actually objectively show which one was steadiest, and how much the camera shakes over a given time period with a laser would be your best bet. Really, I should do it for 5-10 minutes each to really show the results - but who has the time? haha. Unfortunately, Sony doesn't make that vest anymore. I bought it for WAY too much on Ebay, but I like it so much, it was worth the price. If you want to look for it, it's called: Sony VCT-SP1BP - I use a different monopod though.
@@DANAMIONLINE I have not yet! I've always been interested in the ergorig, but since I'm not a huge fan of shoulder-mounted cameras, have never given it a full look. But the sling may be a good middle ground. I just received my ReadyRig, so going to test that out now as well.
@@CurrenSheldon I'm thinking the same about the Ergorig with the Undersling. You can get in a car with it, throw it on the shoulder (if you want), or use various heights with the underlying attachments. What prompted you to get the ReadyRig?
loved the vid and it was very in depth. Personally i've been using my shoulder rig combined with a cinesaddle lately and that seems to tick allot of boxes from shooting low to on the shoulder. One thing i absolutely love when shooting on the shoulder rig is interviewing people by yourself you get a great eyeline instead of looking at the camera.
That’s a great point with the shoulder rig. And yes, it does seem having a second type of stabilizer (like the cine saddle) makes a shoulder rig quite a bit more useful. Thanks for watching and glad you enjoyed it!
That vest! I went straight to the description to see which one it is. I see it's not made anymore (I think you have a typo there). Does anyone know of an equivalent? I can't find any on the web.
I am getting the Tilta shoulder rig today. I use a comfortable foam standard camera strap. I poke one arm through so it's not on the back of my neck. All my cameras have a strap with easy to remove clips. I use rigged up C70's as well. Not a big fan of the EasyRig types. I have one but if you need to move/walk it's rough. Waiting on my C400 to come in September to use with my 24-105 2.8. Nice weight combo. Good work here.
Yea the C70 really is not enough weight to use with an Easyrig - swings too much. Can't wait for the C400 + 24-105mm f2.8 combo. Might be the ultimate documentary DP setup.
Great information, Curren. Thank you for doing this! I’m facing this very same dilemma in the documentary style show I’m working on. Do you know of vest that is similar to the Sony one you mentioned that’s no longer available?
I have not found a similar vest. I ended up buying that one on ebay for more than it used to cost new. I'm surprised someone like Tilta hasn't made something similar to it.
The issue with your shoulder rig shots being this shaky, is that the rods the camera is resting on are way too short. The longer the balance points between hand grips and shoulder are away from each other (also between each grip), the more stabil the shot becomes. I would recommend 40cm for smaller and between 40-60cm for taller people for an optimal range. When you're mounting the battery to the rear end of the shoulder piece to create additional leverage to take weight off your arms, it becomes even more stabil and even if you shake, it will be smooth and controlled.
Agree that continuing to optimize your setup, no matter what it is, will give you better results. I've never totally put in that time for a shoulder rig because I dislike them so much, but for those who love them, you can continue to optimize and perfect.
+1 to this comment. It's really amazing how much difference even a small bit of extension makes and, for me anyway, getting the handles further from my body helps. I shoot 2-4 hour sporting events with a 70-200, often at 200mm, and that extension makes a world of difference.
@@darlingtonjonesimagery9247 Happy I could help! Try it out, I think a stabile shoulder perspective gives the footage a much more "motion picture" feel than hand-held could ever acheive. Mostly because it is still common practice on Hollywood productions to shoot from the shoulder. And of course older iconic films use this to much greater extent, because it was THE GO-TO oldschool "hand-held" method before systems became light enough, and contribute to what we assosiate with the feel of 90's and pre-dating productions. I personally prefer it over any gymbal or hand-held shot.
Interesting results, my take away from this is just how important a well calibrated shoulder rig is. My preferred method is shoulder rig and the results I experience are nothing like the ones in this video, but I do understand that to keep it scientific you need a constant variable which is the C70 set up the same way for every set up. I will also say that it did take me a long time to find the perfect calibration for my shoulder rig, So I think it's a great option and just knowing the limitations like you mentioned is getting the hip shots etc. I'm also self taught, no film school background or anything, so all my experience has been trial and error, learning where I can.
I recently got a CineSaddle and I love it so far. Footage looks stable and natural. The vest/monopod option looks cool. I have a monopod, but don't really use it, though the vest aspect looks like what would make it usable. Tilta makes a "gimbal support vest" that might do the trick since the Sony you mention is no longer made. It might need something to mate it with like the Oben holster since the holder is for a gimbal and pretty shallow. Hell, cuz it's so cheap I might give that a go first and strap it to my belt. Good video to give us some ideas, each one has their thing.
Yes I have been meaning to try that Tilta belt! My fear is that it would be pretty horrible to walk with due to it being around the hip area, but it may be good for everything else.
The Tilta belt/vest is a game changer. Takes the strain off your arms for static shots, and in between moving shots. Just being able to rest the gimbal, even go hands free briefly without having to put the gimbal down is super valuable. Highly recommend.
@@CurrenSheldon When moving or walking I always hold the handles. Relying on the belt is more of something to use when shooting static, and to take the load off in between shots with movement. I think it depends a lot on how you are shooting, if you're living on the gimbal, this is essential imo.
Unfortunately, no. Nobody makes something like this - I've seen some cheapo vests for birders, but nothing I would put a cinema camera on. Maybe I'll make one...
@@CurrenSheldon Thanks for your reply! I found a vest for gardening tasks that I will try to use for this. Curious if it will do the job well.. If you ever decide to make one I will be the first in line to purchase it! :)
Great comparison, your content is really practical and helpful. I'm sure I'll get grief for this but personally, I think a gimbal provides incredible stability for still shots. I use a Ronin 3 and with the tripod legs folded in, I can rest them on or near my hip, put one hand on the grip and one on the extension handle and hold shots for a very long time. Granted, eventually the lower back starts to feel the burn but, I use this method on hour+ long shoots and it works for me.
The gimbal is the ultimate way to get stable shots, for sure. But often not ideal for documentary shooting since it requires 3-4 more things to deal with and potentially fail (gimbal, follow focus, external monitor, etc) and is hard to get into certain positions without exhausting yourself. But I've definitely done it as well! But sometimes a solid handheld look is best for the project.
Thanks for the tests ... very informative. I've been using a monopod pressed against my body connected to a shoulder strap (for a 2 point contact). Budget friendly and stable enough.
Very interested by the saddle but the price is juste a joke ... Recently i discovered the macgiver way using the never used camera ztrap around your neck with a rig ... To my surprised its pretty effective!
I am a big fan of being handheld with FS-7 for B-Roll as it it the fastest way to get a lot of coverage. Your body learns where you can tuck it to get some stable shots. We bought some shoulder rigs for them but it makes everything heavier and harder to be quick without much benefit. I tend to work on sticks for long takes/interviews. Would liked someday to try a easy rig to learn if it could help on those longer takes while keeping the handheld look.
Yep, cameras like the FS7/FX9 work best for handheld as you can still throw them on the shoulder if need be for longer takes. 90% of other cameras can't really do this anymore - not my favorite style of camera, but they definitely have that going for them.
I understand why you didn't do this but I think one thing that is overlooked is that when you have a shoulder rig you can take it off and use it handheld/rest it on your hip without having to rearrange or take something off. In my opinion shooting docs the top 2 methods are shoulder rigs and monopod with quick release. You can also stategically use an ezyrig based on location and payload.
I think that's one of the issues with the shoulder rigs is that you HAVE to take it off to get those hip shots - and then you would need a really robust hipshot or something similar to even be able to handhold it in that position for longer than 30-seconds.
You got my subscription because you didn’t demonstrate a gimbal! 🎉 Thank you for this!! I am buying a SAKK now because of the quick setup time and no electronics to break and flipping firmware updates to install!!
@@the_black_douglas9041 haha gimbals are always a tough tool for observational doc (and frankly just not the look you want), so just went with handheld modes.
I wonder if you could track that laser dot and then get a "percentage stabilized" value in After Effects for each setup. Could also use that tracking data to put natural shake on to footage on sticks (might need two laser pointers for that so you have rotational data haha)
Ohhh I love this. Sounds like more work than I'm willing to do, but I LIKE IT. I might do another test with the ReadyRig and try to hold the shot for 3+ minutes. That should give us a more usable reading.
Great video (and channel!). I've been wondering for a while now if the Easyrig is worth investing in, so thank you for covering that. The Saak was quite a surprise; I initially thought it was just a social media stunt, but it seems to deliver solid results in versatile situations. I only wish you had tested the Easyrig and vest with a gimbal (or another method that imitates a Steadicam) for movement shots. This kind of setup obviously adds extra weight, which can become uncomfortable during long shoots. I guess, ultimately, it comes down to the cinematographer's decision and the type of shot they're aiming for. In documentary filmmaking, the best solution is probably a mix of several methods.
I know a lot of people hate on them but I still think a simple monopod, without the feet, is really useful. It takes all the weight off your body for longer takes, very stable, quite nimble and adjustable. Its main downside is that it doesn't offer a lot when walking. I often use a monopod/cinesaddle combo, and of course a quick adjust tripod.
I used to use a monopod all the time, but missed shots every now and again because it got in the way. Even with a quick release plate, I couldn't remove it fast enough to grab fleeting low shots. Getting a body with solid IBIS changed everything, now I hardly use a monopod at all.
Im suprised this video hasnt gone viral yet Im sure it will I've watched it 4 times :) thanks for this, Im giong for the monopod and vest, (monopods can often be taken out of the main stem of your tripod no need to buy two) - its important to state the product name in these videos bro, as I got lost for a while trying to find it. For anyone else its called a Gimbal Support Vest
Aw thanks for the kind words - it's definitely the video that chugs along most consistently, so I think people just find it when they need it. Unfortunately, the vest in the video is made by Sony and they don't make it anymore - I found it on Ebay.
I have the standard Easyrig Minimax. Works fine with cameras C300-sized (and a bit bigger/heavier). I haven't used the Flex Vest before, so I can't speak to that one. Wish it was easier to try out gear without renting it or buying/returning.
I love my ReadyRig w/ Proarms for most of my work. However, for less crazy shoots and run-and-gun work, I prefer to use my CineSaddle (even though it's overpriced lol). Thank you for sharing the results of these tests!
Thanks, very useful. This proves there is no good method to do all the shots, you have to use at least 3 of them :D. I'm missing the steady cam in the comparison though :(
No matter what happens in a doc scenario, I always seem to end up back at handheld for one reason or another 😅. I did a corporate doc last year though which I bought the easyrig for especially, because we were on a construction site the entire time, often in a few inches of mud, so there wasn’t really anywhere to put a camera down at all. For that kind of situation it worked wonders, I had almost no fatigue at the end of the day after shooting b-roll, action shots and standing up talking heads. Occasionally to shoot a walking shot I’d literally just take the camera off the easyrig and do it handheld with that stupid arm swinging above my head, then put it back on when the shot was done. It felt like a bit of a reminder that it is all about which tool works for what you’re shooting sometimes and there isn’t a perfect option.
I have seen some doc film makers use the shoulder rig with a bag to help take that weight off your shoulders... resting the handles and elbows on the bag... Yes i agree that in much situations that the shoulder rig will be a Burden... But if you are standing for hours it can be a great help...
The monopod could be really good for those longer and lower shots, if only we could find a wide, flat surface to set it on, instead of in the vest pocket 😄
Yea I've used a monopod to the floor a few times, but I find it difficult to move quickly with it, change heights as subjects move, and keep it level (though, most cameras have an electronic level now, so that's less of an issue - but a lot of them still don't!)
I know this is a few months old. But i have a solution. Tilta makes a lightweight gimbal support belt/vest combo, that will do exactly this, if paired with a monopod
Pretty bad test and your easy rig test is a bit disingenuous for walking. I don’t know anyone who uses an easy rig anymore without some form of vertical stabilization, either a spring arm up top or using the rig with a gimbal if you factor into those industry standard uses of the easy rig then it is far better than any of the rest of the method you gave for stabilized walkingalso introducing a one-handed motorized gimbal for walking would’ve also done a bit better. Another problem I have is that your easy rig walking footage is about worse than any easy rig footage I’ve ever gotten in my entire life so these tests seem a bit skewed.
Hi I use Strap and schoulder pad from smallrig on my P6K org for handheld sometimes easyrig for longer Shots... For handheld really everyone schould have this smallrig pad it is perfect to have a big chest point of contact. Walking was always a problem... Well if you have the S5iiX after the newer update you have almost gimbal level of stabilisation with a flair of hanheld ...and it is shootting prores HQ 5.8K on SSD...it is almost cheaper to get an S5iiX than an easyrig...😂😂😂
Haha - IBIS definitely helps, but I'm amazed at how often it gives me jitters and artifacts that I don't want in my footage, especially for documentary. But yes, the Smallrig chest pad on the back of rods is GREAT for extra stabilization. If you can tell, I have it on my monopod setup and it's great.
@@CurrenSheldon Well microjitters are for the past with the S5iiX IBIS setting to HIGH...it gives u a S35 5.8k Pores HQ with 1.3 crop +- after last firmware update really hard to do better...even hand held 70-300 was stable which is unseen...for FF (MFT is another story)
This is specifically for the handheld look. Gimbals are fine, but they have a specific look that I don't think fits documentaries very well - feels less organic. Also, trying to use a gimbal on a documentary for the entire shoot is near impossible if you are filming verite, actual in-scene action, people talking at table, etc. Gimbals are fine for b-roll but not the best route for real, true documentary-capture.
@@CurrenSheldon To add if I may, while gimbals are indeed killer for what they do, they are another failure point with a huge liability if it is your only means of getting the shot. I kinda think that glidecams are still relevant just for that reason. They seem to offer a smoother handheld look, quick to react, no battery, no fuss solution (after balancing of course).
@@CDStudios 100% - I've had gimbals go wonky on me at inopportune times and so never fully trust them. Especially when doing 10-12 hour doc shoot days where you are following characters and shooting observational stuff - gimbals are no fun in those scenarios.
Based on this, i think shoulder rig has very limited uses but having it would be more beneficial than an EZ rig because there are many places the EZ rig can't go
Don't write "all stabilization methods". You are missing electronic gimbal, steadicam and more, that would have been much better in pretty much all of these scenarios...
These are doc or handheld stabilization methods. Gimbals and steadicams are their own thing and for a certain look - not what most handheld shooting scenarios want.
Great test and video Curren. I think you were thoughtful and objective. We def share some opinions, I have shot with shoulder rigs for many years and like you, have grown to hate them. They are a one trick pony IMHO and I think a lot of camera users just buy one because they look impressive and they haven''t throught out what their real needs are on their shoots. Shoulder rigs are a default for many but they do rack your body and they aren't very flexible. I am burned out on looking through an EVF and prefer to look at a 5-7" screen. Not sure if you've ever used or checked ouit the Ergo Rig? I've shot on a some cooking contest shows for Discovery and those shows often have 10-12 operators. The last one I worked on, every operator other than the jib and a single gimbal op were shooting big. heavy FX9 rigs with huge lenses like Angenieux 25-250 and dual Gold Mount batteries so the rigs were HEAVY. Most of the the ops had an Ergorig, which makes a lot of sense. It doesn't solve the other issues of shoulder mounted shooting, but it does reduce the physical damage to your body. www.ergorig.com/ I personally use the EasyRig MiniMax, which I love. My FX6 rig loaded is about 12lbs and I shoot a three hour weekly live broadcast with it as the main handheld op. I literally couldn't do the shoot without it. I have been working on some walking shots and I have them to a point where they are usable. Not super smooth but not too jarring and wavering either. Also, not sure if you've seen the new Mantis system yet? This is a rubber bungee system that attaches to an EasyRig. It's a chunk of money but I am impressed with how much it improves the movement and stability of the EasyRig, I may get one. Downsides are it increases height because it bolts on top of the EasyRig arm and it starts at about $1,500 and up but the improvements are noticeable over a stock EasyRig too.
@5:03 yes, you do have to grab the cam off the saddle, but you could rest your elbows on the saddle for stability. no, i don't own a cine saddle...i'm a poor filmmaker so i just used an old lowepro sling bag that i had layin' around and filled it w/ a towel. worked out pretty well at my last shoot. and yes, i used the method i mentioned when i had to get the camera higher.
Yep, that would be a good technique as well.
Exactly - the saddle is used to rest your elbows when you need the camera at shoulder level - works very well!
@@CurrenSheldonI’ve owned the sakk (crazy name) for about 4 months now - it’s probably the most useful stabilizer I’ve tried. I can rest a zhiyun gimbal in the sack and shoot all day on it, it really does make things easier. Resting my elbows on it and raising the camera to eye level works well, and for low shots I’ve just placed the sakk on the ground and placed the camera on top of it - not the most elegant way to get a shot but it still worked. Suffice it to say I love the sakk and miss it whenever I use a different stabilizer. 😅
Thank you for taking the time to do this video. I use a gimbal and a gimbal support vest to stabilize my shooting. There's a telescopic pole that I can connect to the gimbal to get the perfect height. It works great.
Loved seeing the laser pointer long exposure test.
I’d love to test it out with a couple other methods and do it for like 3-4 minutes. That would really show how steady it is.
Great video! I was looking into the SAAK rig so this. video helped a lot. My preferred method of stabilization (outosde of the time consuming gimbal) is to use a monopod.
Yep, monopods are great but find them frustrating while walking (I always kick them - haha). So the vest + mini monopod is my in between.
Nice video... and as everyone has different needs I went for stabilised lenses instead of cine lenses. I do use it on C70. I mostly dont have time to set up anything else.
This was such a great clip! You were super thorough and really balanced in your approach. I can tell you put a lot of thought and effort into comparing the different methods of stabilization, and it made everything so much easier to understand. You've definitely helped me figure out which option is best for my needs. It’s rare to find content like this that's both detailed and impartial, so thanks for putting it together-it's much appreciated!
@@nitch3304 thanks for watching and the kind words!
Thanks for making this video. It is a well thought out test, and the laser pointer is a smart idea! We often have to use different methods, so it's nice to see how they compare.
One big consideration is arm and back fatigue. Talk to anyone who has done years of news gathering for TV stations and they will recommend a good chiropractor or two.
Monopods are great for shooting events on the move. They also come in handy when you have to grab a quick overhead shot.
My Ronin RS 2 is reliable, but I loath doing long shots with it. Tilta's dual handle Float system looks very intriguing, so I may go that route in the future. These rigs are great, but setups can really slow you down if you are working solo.
I just ordered the SAKK product, and think it offers a good balance of value, versatility and ease of use. Not having to strap on a vest and spend time balancing a rig is appealing.
Totally - I think a great test would be to test body fatigue/strain - but that's a long test and definitely changes. I just shot a feature doc with an Easyrig and a HEAVY package and my lower back was hurting the first shoot or two, but then strengthened and felt fine the next 4-5 multi-day shoots. So, definitely changes and is person/body type/strength/fitness dependent.
As of today, June 3rd, 2024, out of multiple videos I've ever seen, yours is the BEST & MOST COMPREHENSIVE regarding camera stabilizer reviewing. It's because you cover Easyrig, Handheld, Monopod, Sakk bag, Shoulder Rig and Vest. You also demonstrate their advantages and disadvantages. Thank Curren for such an INTERESTING & USEFUL job!
One question, please! If possibile, could you please compare Easyrig STABIL G3 with your monopod system? Easyrig claims it can stabilize camera setups between 5-25 kg / 11-55 lbs. Thanks again.
Thanks so much for the kind words and for watching! I'd love to test out the STABIL G3, but don't have access to one at the moment (and they are pricey!). I am going to do an easyrig vs readyrig comparison soon, though - and maybe throw in the monopod/vest system as a control group.
@@CurrenSheldon I agree that STABIL G3 is pricey. Thanks anyway.
Great video and answered all my questions I have as a handheld shooter looking for a new setup
! thank you!
Glad I could help! Hope you find the right setup.
@@CurrenSheldon thank you! What monopod do you use?
@@CurrenSheldon also wondering if you could share what the device is the is with the rods when you use the monopod? pressed up against your chest
@@CurrenSheldon hi again! Wondering what tripod and tilt head you use?
Great video! And thanks for addressing the actual realities of long-form doc shooting. I've always found that the more equipment you have, the more on-edge you make the interviewee, so I'm always trying to keep it simple for the sake of natural, comfortable dialogue. Turning up in a goofy ass EasyRig just isn't an option. Plus I'm the guy who's got to lug all this stuff around after all.
I always shoot from the hip for sit-down interviews because that way you can change angle (push in, go wide etc) whilst the interviewer asks another question. Gives a bit of variety when it comes to the edit rather than jump cutting one long frame. But I also need to be able to get to the shoulder quickly.
So my workaround is to set up the camera on the shoulder rig and fix a thick camera strap and hang it off my shoulder, with shoulder pad of the rig resting on my hip/on the belt of my pants. It's not fantastically stable but it is nimble. However I think I'm gonna try it with a saddle bag after watching this.
Thanks again!
For all day shoots, I use my FX3/FX6 with a gimbal which is mounted directly to a mechanical support vest, namely the Thanos SE.
I can shoot nonstop for hours with that system without much fatigue, if I really need to. You can shoot from eye level to knee level, it’s a pretty good range for most situations.
With just a gimbal, it’s nearly impossible to shoot continuously for more than 10/15 minutes without destroying your arms and back. You have to put down your camera every few minutes to recover.
Totally. I wanted to focus specifically on handheld, doc verité techniques, but if you're going to be running a gimbal, you almost have to have something like a vest and arm. Thanks for watching!
Exactly the video I was looking for, thank you!!
Glad it was helpful!
A good idea of a video to compare all of these methods. I appreciate the various tests.
My favorite stabilization was the EasyRig and CineSaddle. This video test also reminds me that there are different tools for different jobs. Filming in nature using the EasyRig is a breeze. A CineSaddle could be great for smaller spaces. I agree with you handheld is not great for covering scenes.
How did you come up with the ideaofousinge a laser and lon-exposure? Also, where can I find the vest from the vested monopod setup?
The general conclusion is: pick the best tool for the job, for sure. But it's not always possible, especially in docs, to bring ALL of these, so you have to choose the most versatile option and what you want to achieve. For the laser pointer, I was trying to think of something that would actually objectively show which one was steadiest, and how much the camera shakes over a given time period with a laser would be your best bet. Really, I should do it for 5-10 minutes each to really show the results - but who has the time? haha.
Unfortunately, Sony doesn't make that vest anymore. I bought it for WAY too much on Ebay, but I like it so much, it was worth the price. If you want to look for it, it's called: Sony VCT-SP1BP - I use a different monopod though.
@@CurrenSheldon I’ve done more reflecting on this topic. Have you tried the Ergorig with the Sling?
@@DANAMIONLINE I have not yet! I've always been interested in the ergorig, but since I'm not a huge fan of shoulder-mounted cameras, have never given it a full look. But the sling may be a good middle ground. I just received my ReadyRig, so going to test that out now as well.
@@CurrenSheldon I'm thinking the same about the Ergorig with the Undersling. You can get in a car with it, throw it on the shoulder (if you want), or use various heights with the underlying attachments.
What prompted you to get the ReadyRig?
Use the monopod with the saddle. That's what I use. Works like a charm.
Oh, interesting combo. I'll test it out!
In which way? Can you further explain?
@@ginoraas sadly it seems that he can't haha
loved the vid and it was very in depth. Personally i've been using my shoulder rig combined with a cinesaddle lately and that seems to tick allot of boxes from shooting low to on the shoulder. One thing i absolutely love when shooting on the shoulder rig is interviewing people by yourself you get a great eyeline instead of looking at the camera.
That’s a great point with the shoulder rig. And yes, it does seem having a second type of stabilizer (like the cine saddle) makes a shoulder rig quite a bit more useful.
Thanks for watching and glad you enjoyed it!
That vest! I went straight to the description to see which one it is. I see it's not made anymore (I think you have a typo there). Does anyone know of an equivalent? I can't find any on the web.
I do not know of an equivalent. Need to start a company to make em.
I had to jump at the Black Friday 2024 50% off Black Friday special on Sakk!
Oh nice! That's a great deal. Really nice support system, for sure.
this was helpful - thankyou
Glad it was helpful!
I am getting the Tilta shoulder rig today. I use a comfortable foam standard camera strap. I poke one arm through so it's not on the back of my neck. All my cameras have a strap with easy to remove clips. I use rigged up C70's as well. Not a big fan of the EasyRig types. I have one but if you need to move/walk it's rough. Waiting on my C400 to come in September to use with my 24-105 2.8. Nice weight combo.
Good work here.
Yea the C70 really is not enough weight to use with an Easyrig - swings too much. Can't wait for the C400 + 24-105mm f2.8 combo. Might be the ultimate documentary DP setup.
Great information, Curren. Thank you for doing this! I’m facing this very same dilemma in the documentary style show I’m working on. Do you know of vest that is similar to the Sony one you mentioned that’s no longer available?
I have not found a similar vest. I ended up buying that one on ebay for more than it used to cost new. I'm surprised someone like Tilta hasn't made something similar to it.
@@CurrenSheldon I may reach out to Tilta or Smallrig to guage their interest in creating a vest like this. Worth a try.
The issue with your shoulder rig shots being this shaky, is that the rods the camera is resting on are way too short. The longer the balance points between hand grips and shoulder are away from each other (also between each grip), the more stabil the shot becomes. I would recommend 40cm for smaller and between 40-60cm for taller people for an optimal range. When you're mounting the battery to the rear end of the shoulder piece to create additional leverage to take weight off your arms, it becomes even more stabil and even if you shake, it will be smooth and controlled.
Agree that continuing to optimize your setup, no matter what it is, will give you better results. I've never totally put in that time for a shoulder rig because I dislike them so much, but for those who love them, you can continue to optimize and perfect.
@@CurrenSheldon So what is your favourite as of today? Other than monopod/vest.
+1 to this comment. It's really amazing how much difference even a small bit of extension makes and, for me anyway, getting the handles further from my body helps. I shoot 2-4 hour sporting events with a 70-200, often at 200mm, and that extension makes a world of difference.
Thanks for this comment. I was going to abandon shoulder rigs until you said this
@@darlingtonjonesimagery9247 Happy I could help! Try it out, I think a stabile shoulder perspective gives the footage a much more "motion picture" feel than hand-held could ever acheive. Mostly because it is still common practice on Hollywood productions to shoot from the shoulder. And of course older iconic films use this to much greater extent, because it was THE GO-TO oldschool "hand-held" method before systems became light enough, and contribute to what we assosiate with the feel of 90's and pre-dating productions. I personally prefer it over any gymbal or hand-held shot.
Interesting results, my take away from this is just how important a well calibrated shoulder rig is. My preferred method is shoulder rig and the results I experience are nothing like the ones in this video, but I do understand that to keep it scientific you need a constant variable which is the C70 set up the same way for every set up. I will also say that it did take me a long time to find the perfect calibration for my shoulder rig, So I think it's a great option and just knowing the limitations like you mentioned is getting the hip shots etc. I'm also self taught, no film school background or anything, so all my experience has been trial and error, learning where I can.
Great test!
Thanks!
Thank you for the insight 👍🏻
I‘d love to see some scenarios, especially the walking shots, with the stabil light arm on the easy rig.
Yes I am using the stabil light on a feature doc now and do like it - but just renting it for now.
I recently got a CineSaddle and I love it so far. Footage looks stable and natural. The vest/monopod option looks cool. I have a monopod, but don't really use it, though the vest aspect looks like what would make it usable. Tilta makes a "gimbal support vest" that might do the trick since the Sony you mention is no longer made. It might need something to mate it with like the Oben holster since the holder is for a gimbal and pretty shallow. Hell, cuz it's so cheap I might give that a go first and strap it to my belt. Good video to give us some ideas, each one has their thing.
Yes I have been meaning to try that Tilta belt! My fear is that it would be pretty horrible to walk with due to it being around the hip area, but it may be good for everything else.
The Tilta belt/vest is a game changer. Takes the strain off your arms for static shots, and in between moving shots. Just being able to rest the gimbal, even go hands free briefly without having to put the gimbal down is super valuable. Highly recommend.
@MattSteeves ohh yea I’d love to test that one out. My only concern with it is that it would swing the camera while your hips are moving/walking.
@@CurrenSheldon When moving or walking I always hold the handles. Relying on the belt is more of something to use when shooting static, and to take the load off in between shots with movement. I think it depends a lot on how you are shooting, if you're living on the gimbal, this is essential imo.
Very helpful video! Do you know a good alternative for the Sony VCT-SP1BP? I cannot find anything alike unfortunately.. It seems like a great method!
Unfortunately, no. Nobody makes something like this - I've seen some cheapo vests for birders, but nothing I would put a cinema camera on. Maybe I'll make one...
@@CurrenSheldon Thanks for your reply! I found a vest for gardening tasks that I will try to use for this. Curious if it will do the job well.. If you ever decide to make one I will be the first in line to purchase it! :)
Great comparison, your content is really practical and helpful. I'm sure I'll get grief for this but personally, I think a gimbal provides incredible stability for still shots. I use a Ronin 3 and with the tripod legs folded in, I can rest them on or near my hip, put one hand on the grip and one on the extension handle and hold shots for a very long time. Granted, eventually the lower back starts to feel the burn but, I use this method on hour+ long shoots and it works for me.
The gimbal is the ultimate way to get stable shots, for sure. But often not ideal for documentary shooting since it requires 3-4 more things to deal with and potentially fail (gimbal, follow focus, external monitor, etc) and is hard to get into certain positions without exhausting yourself. But I've definitely done it as well! But sometimes a solid handheld look is best for the project.
Thanks for the tests ... very informative.
I've been using a monopod pressed against my body connected to a shoulder strap (for a 2 point contact). Budget friendly and stable enough.
Yep that sounds like it would be pretty useful - is the monopod all the way to the ground?
@@CurrenSheldon Nope, pressed against my abdomen by its three feet
I still like to have my hands able to control the camera. Sounds like you can still do it with that setup!
What about breathing, though?
Very interested by the saddle but the price is juste a joke ... Recently i discovered the macgiver way using the never used camera ztrap around your neck with a rig ... To my surprised its pretty effective!
I am a big fan of being handheld with FS-7 for B-Roll as it it the fastest way to get a lot of coverage. Your body learns where you can tuck it to get some stable shots. We bought some shoulder rigs for them but it makes everything heavier and harder to be quick without much benefit. I tend to work on sticks for long takes/interviews. Would liked someday to try a easy rig to learn if it could help on those longer takes while keeping the handheld look.
Yep, cameras like the FS7/FX9 work best for handheld as you can still throw them on the shoulder if need be for longer takes. 90% of other cameras can't really do this anymore - not my favorite style of camera, but they definitely have that going for them.
I understand why you didn't do this but I think one thing that is overlooked is that when you have a shoulder rig you can take it off and use it handheld/rest it on your hip without having to rearrange or take something off. In my opinion shooting docs the top 2 methods are shoulder rigs and monopod with quick release. You can also stategically use an ezyrig based on location and payload.
I think that's one of the issues with the shoulder rigs is that you HAVE to take it off to get those hip shots - and then you would need a really robust hipshot or something similar to even be able to handhold it in that position for longer than 30-seconds.
Where did you get the vest and saddle for the monopod? looks great for a gimbal also.
Unfortunately it's an old Sony system that they don't sell anymore. Might need to make my own...
You got my subscription because you didn’t demonstrate a gimbal! 🎉 Thank you for this!! I am buying a SAKK now because of the quick setup time and no electronics to break and flipping firmware updates to install!!
@@the_black_douglas9041 haha gimbals are always a tough tool for observational doc (and frankly just not the look you want), so just went with handheld modes.
@@CurrenSheldon you’re too fair minded! Gimbals are Satan’s official camera stabilising device.
The easy rig, you can get some things that will help with walking shots.
SAKK while supplementing with hand held is the way to go for me.
Yes I think I may start utilizing this method more as well.
Thanks!
which system do you find yourself using most
I wonder if you could track that laser dot and then get a "percentage stabilized" value in After Effects for each setup. Could also use that tracking data to put natural shake on to footage on sticks (might need two laser pointers for that so you have rotational data haha)
Ohhh I love this. Sounds like more work than I'm willing to do, but I LIKE IT. I might do another test with the ReadyRig and try to hold the shot for 3+ minutes. That should give us a more usable reading.
May I know what's the monopod and vest you use?
Great video (and channel!). I've been wondering for a while now if the Easyrig is worth investing in, so thank you for covering that. The Saak was quite a surprise; I initially thought it was just a social media stunt, but it seems to deliver solid results in versatile situations.
I only wish you had tested the Easyrig and vest with a gimbal (or another method that imitates a Steadicam) for movement shots. This kind of setup obviously adds extra weight, which can become uncomfortable during long shoots.
I guess, ultimately, it comes down to the cinematographer's decision and the type of shot they're aiming for. In documentary filmmaking, the best solution is probably a mix of several methods.
Super helpful, thanks for this!
I know a lot of people hate on them but I still think a simple monopod, without the feet, is really useful. It takes all the weight off your body for longer takes, very stable, quite nimble and adjustable. Its main downside is that it doesn't offer a lot when walking. I often use a monopod/cinesaddle combo, and of course a quick adjust tripod.
Agreed! Monopods do work in a lot of scenarios. And yep, the Flowtech tripod (or YC Onion) are great if you want the tripod style/look.
I used to use a monopod all the time, but missed shots every now and again because it got in the way. Even with a quick release plate, I couldn't remove it fast enough to grab fleeting low shots. Getting a body with solid IBIS changed everything, now I hardly use a monopod at all.
Im suprised this video hasnt gone viral yet Im sure it will I've watched it 4 times :) thanks for this, Im giong for the monopod and vest, (monopods can often be taken out of the main stem of your tripod no need to buy two) - its important to state the product name in these videos bro, as I got lost for a while trying to find it. For anyone else its called a Gimbal Support Vest
Aw thanks for the kind words - it's definitely the video that chugs along most consistently, so I think people just find it when they need it. Unfortunately, the vest in the video is made by Sony and they don't make it anymore - I found it on Ebay.
Which easyrig are you using? I’m debating between the standard minimax and the cinema flex vest. Wondering if it’s worth the extra 1k
I have the standard Easyrig Minimax. Works fine with cameras C300-sized (and a bit bigger/heavier). I haven't used the Flex Vest before, so I can't speak to that one. Wish it was easier to try out gear without renting it or buying/returning.
I love my ReadyRig w/ Proarms for most of my work. However, for less crazy shoots and run-and-gun work, I prefer to use my CineSaddle (even though it's overpriced lol). Thank you for sharing the results of these tests!
I have a ReadyRig on the way! Excited to test it against the Easyrig - definitely like the fact that it's not nearly as tall.
Thanks, very useful. This proves there is no good method to do all the shots, you have to use at least 3 of them :D. I'm missing the steady cam in the comparison though :(
Was just focusing on handheld techniques for this test, but steadicam and/or gimbal are definitely the smoothest.
@@CurrenSheldon I'm talking about just basic steady cam. No waist stabilisation or a harness. Just handheld steady cam.
No matter what happens in a doc scenario, I always seem to end up back at handheld for one reason or another 😅. I did a corporate doc last year though which I bought the easyrig for especially, because we were on a construction site the entire time, often in a few inches of mud, so there wasn’t really anywhere to put a camera down at all. For that kind of situation it worked wonders, I had almost no fatigue at the end of the day after shooting b-roll, action shots and standing up talking heads. Occasionally to shoot a walking shot I’d literally just take the camera off the easyrig and do it handheld with that stupid arm swinging above my head, then put it back on when the shot was done. It felt like a bit of a reminder that it is all about which tool works for what you’re shooting sometimes and there isn’t a perfect option.
Shoulder-strap might be a reliable investment;)
I have seen some doc film makers use the shoulder rig with a bag to help take that weight off your shoulders... resting the handles and elbows on the bag... Yes i agree that in much situations that the shoulder rig will be a Burden... But if you are standing for hours it can be a great help...
this is amazing! thank you so much!
Glad you like it!
new to your channel. You're awesome. Amazing content.
I appreciate that, thank you. And thank you for watching!
The monopod could be really good for those longer and lower shots, if only we could find a wide, flat surface to set it on, instead of in the vest pocket 😄
Yea I've used a monopod to the floor a few times, but I find it difficult to move quickly with it, change heights as subjects move, and keep it level (though, most cameras have an electronic level now, so that's less of an issue - but a lot of them still don't!)
Thanks for this content!
Thanks for watching!
Dang i thought my prayers were answered until i saw doesnt make them anymore. It was the perfect solution for all day weddings
I know - such a bummer that they don't make the vest anymore. I might have to design one myself...
I know this is a few months old. But i have a solution. Tilta makes a lightweight gimbal support belt/vest combo, that will do exactly this, if paired with a monopod
Pretty bad test and your easy rig test is a bit disingenuous for walking. I don’t know anyone who uses an easy rig anymore without some form of vertical stabilization, either a spring arm up top or using the rig with a gimbal if you factor into those industry standard uses of the easy rig then it is far better than any of the rest of the method you gave for stabilized walkingalso introducing a one-handed motorized gimbal for walking would’ve also done a bit better. Another problem I have is that your easy rig walking footage is about worse than any easy rig footage I’ve ever gotten in my entire life so these tests seem a bit skewed.
Hi
I use Strap and schoulder pad from smallrig on my P6K org for handheld sometimes easyrig for longer Shots...
For handheld really everyone schould have this smallrig pad it is perfect to have a big chest point of contact.
Walking was always a problem...
Well if you have the S5iiX after the newer update you have almost gimbal level of stabilisation with a flair of hanheld ...and it is shootting prores HQ 5.8K on SSD...it is almost cheaper to get an S5iiX than an easyrig...😂😂😂
Haha - IBIS definitely helps, but I'm amazed at how often it gives me jitters and artifacts that I don't want in my footage, especially for documentary. But yes, the Smallrig chest pad on the back of rods is GREAT for extra stabilization. If you can tell, I have it on my monopod setup and it's great.
@@CurrenSheldon Well microjitters are for the past with the S5iiX IBIS setting to HIGH...it gives u a S35 5.8k Pores HQ with 1.3 crop +- after last firmware update really hard to do better...even hand held 70-300 was stable which is unseen...for FF (MFT is another story)
this is awesome info. thanks
Thanks for watching!
This was so helpful
Thanks for watching and happy to help!
thank you!
Of course!
Awesome review!
Glad you enjoyed it
Wished you included tilta float handheld support
That's a bit bigger and used for a different purpose than the handheld documentary style, but I would love to test it out in the future!
Nice!🎉Thank You
No problem 😊
Why not just use some kind of gimbal system?
This is specifically for the handheld look. Gimbals are fine, but they have a specific look that I don't think fits documentaries very well - feels less organic. Also, trying to use a gimbal on a documentary for the entire shoot is near impossible if you are filming verite, actual in-scene action, people talking at table, etc. Gimbals are fine for b-roll but not the best route for real, true documentary-capture.
@@CurrenSheldon thank u for the thorough explanation
@@CurrenSheldon To add if I may, while gimbals are indeed killer for what they do, they are another failure point with a huge liability if it is your only means of getting the shot. I kinda think that glidecams are still relevant just for that reason. They seem to offer a smoother handheld look, quick to react, no battery, no fuss solution (after balancing of course).
@@CDStudios 100% - I've had gimbals go wonky on me at inopportune times and so never fully trust them. Especially when doing 10-12 hour doc shoot days where you are following characters and shooting observational stuff - gimbals are no fun in those scenarios.
Based on this, i think shoulder rig has very limited uses but having it would be more beneficial than an EZ rig because there are many places the EZ rig can't go
Amazing!!!!
So basically, get multiple stabilization devices and use therm when applicable. One ain't gonna work
Don't write "all stabilization methods". You are missing electronic gimbal, steadicam and more, that would have been much better in pretty much all of these scenarios...
These are doc or handheld stabilization methods. Gimbals and steadicams are their own thing and for a certain look - not what most handheld shooting scenarios want.
The vest is no longer made. Any alternatives?
Great test and video Curren. I think you were thoughtful and objective. We def share some opinions, I have shot with shoulder rigs for many years and like you, have grown to hate them. They are a one trick pony IMHO and I think a lot of camera users just buy one because they look impressive and they haven''t throught out what their real needs are on their shoots. Shoulder rigs are a default for many but they do rack your body and they aren't very flexible. I am burned out on looking through an EVF and prefer to look at a 5-7" screen.
Not sure if you've ever used or checked ouit the Ergo Rig? I've shot on a some cooking contest shows for Discovery and those shows often have 10-12 operators. The last one I worked on, every operator other than the jib and a single gimbal op were shooting big. heavy FX9 rigs with huge lenses like Angenieux 25-250 and dual Gold Mount batteries so the rigs were HEAVY. Most of the the ops had an Ergorig, which makes a lot of sense. It doesn't solve the other issues of shoulder mounted shooting, but it does reduce the physical damage to your body. www.ergorig.com/
I personally use the EasyRig MiniMax, which I love. My FX6 rig loaded is about 12lbs and I shoot a three hour weekly live broadcast with it as the main handheld op. I literally couldn't do the shoot without it. I have been working on some walking shots and I have them to a point where they are usable. Not super smooth but not too jarring and wavering either. Also, not sure if you've seen the new Mantis system yet? This is a rubber bungee system that attaches to an EasyRig. It's a chunk of money but I am impressed with how much it improves the movement and stability of the EasyRig, I may get one. Downsides are it increases height because it bolts on top of the EasyRig arm and it starts at about $1,500 and up but the improvements are noticeable over a stock EasyRig too.