I finally posted mine (Part II): ua-cam.com/video/8rqxmaNYEoQ/v-deo.html Thanks for coming up with this idea, Mark. It was fun, and you're a delight to work with. 🤓🙏
Sure , but all an on board TC box actually does , is sync up the camera and TC box when you hit record , it's not taking over from the cameras crystal sync. And so with long takes it drifts . I ,like many, used to think the box TC will take over , but it doesn't , it's only syncing up at the beginning of each take. Only Gen lock with take over from the cameras TC.
People who don't care about dual cards just haven't (yet) gone through the trauma of losing an entire day's un-re-film-able work to a mystical card gremlin.
I don't care about it. I don't use cards whatsoever as cards are to unreliable, flimsi and small. Ever tried to change a SD card during a concert shot with lights flashing all over the place? No thank you. I'm recording on SSD harddrives. Much more reliable, not as easy to lose and much more easier to change blindly (with not much light availeble). I also don't use gigantic volumes like Terrabite, usually I go for 500GB. Way cheaper, in general enough capacity and in the unfortunate case of a failure it's "only" 500GB lost and not 1TB. Moreover I regularily do a healthcheck on my harddrives. Talking about maintaining your gear.
@@corneliusdobeneck4081 not all cameras record on ssd/drives, also if you are taking about using the usbc to drive, take in mind you have an breaking point, the cable and the ports or if you are talking ssd/drive on an atomos, you still have a flaw, again the cables and the ports. So yes, internal dual recording is better.
Having a card corrupt makes dual card slot INFINITELY valuable. Telling a client thats already paid that what you filmed, which cannot be done again, is gone is VERY NOT FUN
Genuinely surprised at the dual card slot response too. Knock on wood I’ve only had a card get corrupted on me once (and thankfully wasn’t on a client shoot) but knowing that things happen, knowing I have 2x a copy of anything vital is HUGE and for any camera I’d use professionally is an absolute deal breaker. I don’t know what if any shooting Gerald (still) does outside his YT channel so I can see how for him it’s overrated, but I think his indifference toward why it is absolutely critical for others to be very surprising.
I think Gerald is right and shoot mostly on single card camera and never had card issue ever (over 15years). Just get a good card and have a robust backup and card change system and you will be fine.
@@winngh yup. That's the same logic as "Well I've never been in a car accident. Only bad drivers get in accidents so we don't need to wear seat belts." The safety feature isn't for when everything's going right 🤗 I've heard this same argument from other shooters but like I said, having even 1 card corrupt will change your perspective, as will a single serious car accident. But I'm seriously happy for you that you haven't had to deal with it. I don't wish it on anyone
I've had several cards fail, all brand-names like Sandisk and Lexar (Lexar cards were the worst for me). I also format after every download and fairly regularly scan the cards for defects, so it's not like I've been sloppy. I require some kind of dual slot recording, at least on a salvagable codec (proxy won't do).
Lens data, camera metadata, & camera tilt, height, etc. are so underrated specifically if you plan to have someone match move the camera in post, they don’t even record it on actual film sets a lot of the time 😭😭😭
Entertaining video. I have a few standouts: 6K: I must say I’m surprised to see both of you say 6K is overrated. For anyone that shoots anamorphic and needs to conform their footage to 16:9, having the extra resolution is a godsend. Raw: Since Canons only record 6K in raw, it gives a strong argument for raw recording… plus you can adjust detail in the raw footage.
And how many people are actually running Anamorphic lenses vs Spherical glass, for the amount of people who actually need higher than 4K there are a lot more wanting it. Thats why its overrated, doesn't mean its not useful for some instances, just like 100MP medium format photos, just not as many people should be valuing it so much.
They’re talking about their specific workflows and what they shoot for. You might need and appreciate 6k but for them, it’s not really a factor they consider important
Global shutter. For video, yes, for photos it's a different story. For commercial work, lets say sportsteams it is worth millions if you can see the LED signings of sponsors on photos. For that alone it is highly underrated.
6k is often overrated from who not use them, if you can use it is good to have more frame to stabilize later, to build different framing, to have better resampled 4k and fhd shooting. I just finished a documentary where 6k save the day, be cause most of people cannot be interviewed separated and we can isolate later, 6k give me ability to reframe picture too far or not best framed for run and gun shooting.
True, I’ve been shooting projects this year where the clients also wanted short/reel content. Since my Fuji shoots opengate, I can easily repurpose that footage
19:00 A basic issue with digital stabilization is that it does not solve movement blur. If a camera is shaking around while the shutter is open, each pixel is a mix of what's moving across it, and that blurry mix still remains when the scene is "stopped" from moving.
you can shoot higher shutter speeds to avoid that, of course it will change the texture of the image a bit, but seems to work really well for stationary subjects
Dual Native ISO has been an absolute game-changer for me as a wildlife enthusiast. I imagine it’s equally invaluable for wedding videographers, given the lighting challenges they face. I use a Panasonic S1 with Dual Native ISO, and I’m consistently impressed-4000 ISO looks fantastic, and I’m not hesitant to push it to 8000 when needed. At this point, I wouldn’t even consider a camera without that feature. It’s also one of the reasons I believe Full Frame cameras deserve all the praise they get.
Issue is that the "dual" magic kicking off at a specific is more noise reduction than a magic stop where it "just gets better". If there was a truly jump in iq at certain iso (like 8000 being better than 6400) that'd show up in raw photos too
@cbflarazo: It does. Most cameras have a noticeable DR improvement at ISO 400 against ISO 320, and it is almost as good as ISO 100. In video, the Log profile is rated higher, but it is a real improvement, not just noise reduction trickery.
The features that are important depends somewhat on who you are and what type of photography you do. Mark said you can "get by without it" when referring to IBIS. You can get by without any of the features you mention. However, the better question might be, which of these features dramatically makes your results better or easier to obtain. In that case, any of those features could be dramatically underrated.
Hi Mark, I have seen on your UA-cam video for fx3 doc setup, You suggest Deity S MIC 2S. Now S MIC 3S also came, shall I go with the S mic 3s or anything you suggest for my fx3 setup? I shoot weddings and Practicing docs.
Gyroflow is so fast, works well as a plugin in Resolve, and has saved a bunch of my shots that weren't possible with the built-in stab algos. Sony Catalyst is the doodoo, like most of their software.
Yes, the problem is not gyro stabilisation it's Catalyst browse. With Gyroflow in Resolve it's much easier. (And you can use it for more serious stabilisation, but then you have to plan for it, and use higher shutter speed, to avoid those blurry lines. )
I was thinking the same thing. Why talk about it when you're only experience is with the worst implementation of it (Sony) I've been using the built in Gyro with the pocket cameras in resolve and haven't touched a gimbal in forever. Basically 45 degree shutter then use the Real Smooth Motion Blur plugin (better than resolve's motion blur) and you get a perfectly stabilized shot with natural 180 motion. I honestly feel like I discovered something none of the UA-cam community talks about. I might make a video about it...
I think Full Frame is overrated in the sense that in the next 5 years you’ll be able to get very high quality super 35 cameras for ridiculously good prices, just because they’re not full frame, but the sensor quality itself is not worse. The thought that you can probably get an URSA mini 12k in 1 year for 2500.- is just mind blowing to me. I love the full frame look, but if your project doesn’t really require it, you’d maybe better invest in lenses or lighting or set design or talent. And the point that so many good and beautiful movies were shot on super 35 is completely valid I think. It really reminds you that the reason your movies are not as good, is not because you can’t afford the full frame sensor, but because you don’t put enough focus on what’s in front of the camera. And it obviously depends on what kind of work you do. If you do client work it’s surely worth having a full frame, for having the flexibility for different requirements.
So true! I just picked up an Fs7 for $900 CAD + a Canon FD 35-105 f3.5 ($120) on an $80 AliExpress speed booster, really hard to justify an fx6 when i have little interest in auto focus.
I have a Sony a6700 and nine lenses, before I had a Canon 70D and three lenses. I never found either cropped sensor camera wanting for either photos or video. I am not a professional, certainly a serious amateur, even addicted to camera and lens tech and related devices and software since 2016. 1. WHAT GETS REVIEWED: A gap on UA-cam is people doing long-term reviews of the qualities of certain lenses, eg what they suit, what their characteristics are, how best to use them. As a result there is mostly a simplified A vs B comparison mostly of cameras and rarely between a set of full frame lenses versus a set of cropped sensor or other sensor lenses. There are now in the Sony system lots of cropped sensor lens choices. Other brands I know less about. 2. BOKEH: I get plenty bokeh for photos if that's your thing with a Sigma 56 mm f/1.4 and more with a Viltrox 75 mm f/1.2. 3. TRAVEL: A Sigma 18-50 f/2.8 lens is fine for travel and tiny compared to 24-70 mm full frame equivalents. 4. NOISE: What noise my camera generates I can accept and if not then for photos Lightroom does the job for me playing with textures, noise reduction and other tweaks. This skills-based work does not sell lenses or cameras so there is less affiliate revenue for many on UA-cam. 5. VALUE FOR MONEY: Finally, it is common in marketing to up-sell to the expensive and flash. But one of the best-bought cars for me was 30 years ago when I said to the sales guy "I'm looking for value." He switch on a dime and took me to a vehicle I kept for 24 years, then passed onto a friend in need.
Gyro Stability in Resolve for BRAW takes seconds. I'm hopeful that if BRAW comes to the FX3 as well, they'll let us stabilise Gyro within Resolve as well.
I have nerve damage through half my body especially in my hips so my balance had been effected. IBIS has helped me indefinitely when it comes to continuing camera work on all my projects. I didn’t really appreciate it till this effected me
now i can officially say ppl underestimate power of raw video. edit. Not any flavor of any 10 bit 422 can replace 12 bit color information, and ability in post. (Resolve)
@@ernesto_guevara_che agreed. I’ve never understood the “good enough” argument as long as the capture/storage/archive resources are available for content that is worth it.
The "good enough" argument really just comes from people who shoot "content" for youtube or maybe real estate shoots and such where proper color grading is not really a thing
You are right, for stabilization and more important for deleteding rolling shutter problems, also on ff cameras you can with small value to delete rolling shutter without affecting motion of subject.
14:26 VFX if your trying to match lense in like a 3d program to the camera i could see it saving time by looking at lense meta data. I Could be wrong but im my head for VFX IS verry usefull infomation. Correct me if im wrong tho
Hi, VFX Artist here. And you are absolutely right. Although when you track footage, your virtual lens often doesn't align with what you used onset due to things like lense distortion and cropping. But lens data is always a great reference!
Here's a pro-tip for never formatting a card by accident! Once it's backed up and redundancy is done, format the card on the computer. Then when you put it in the camera, it'll force you to format it. If it doesn't prompt you, double check with your DMT!
14 stops of dynamic range is massively overrated for 99% of users tbh. Curious what Gerald does that requires it so strongly. His studio shots and actual UA-cam videos don't come close to using it. Using HLG on Panasonic is around 10-12 stops, instead of the VLOG which is 12-14 stops, and I find almost all cases HLG is more than enough. Even the clip shown that Mark took still did have clipping in the highlights, and shadows never are pulled all the way up because that flat of an image distorts the mids. I'd love to see common use cases where 14 stops actually matters over 12, beyond a tiny spot brought down.
If you have a mini xlr port giving you poor quality audio it is absolutely 100% guaranteed not because the socket is mini xlr. Something else in the chain is causing that problem. I’ve never used a camera with mini xlrs but I have used countless xlr devices and other balanced audio devices with other connectors and it makes no difference, unless the actual component is broken or of very poor quality.
Global shutter is extremely useful for motion tracking and stabilization for the VFX workflows so I can see not understanding how valuable it is. Beyond that, some uncontrolled lighting situations where flicker is an issue(especially flashes) any shaky, driving and automobile footage usually looks better naturally without stabilization as well, though that's totally based on preference.
As much as I liked the video I thought there was a lot pooping on the Blackmagic cameras. Downing 12 bit and raw and 6k internal and even mentioning the mini xlrs on the Pyxis as a negative idk kinda weird too me
They don’t use those features so they may not understand how powerful they are. I shoot in 12-bit raw on my Fujifilm & Sigma FP. There’s definitely a different between the 12-bit raw and a 10-bit log image. At the end of the day, it really depends what your workflow is but when I can, I definitely choose to shoot raw over log.
@ yeah I personally think since Mark Bone got some clout with Delmonte he’s jumped the shark and is becoming annoying he use to be humble and not a Sony snob.
@19:35, best way to make zooms smooth is start close and move away, then reverse in post. It's so much easier to keep everything framed up. Obviously it only works if the talent doing the action backwards doesn't look odd.
oh, this is fun. I think proxy recording is huge though, for a crewed set at least... first, to put together dailies with a lut and aspect ratio or even desqueeze burned in already saves a ton of time, esp. at the end of a long day. second - being able to give that footage to the editor/director so that they're looking at mostly colored footage and not staring at log during the edit. Third - the small files are so much easier to upload/download to get footage to the editor quicker if they're not on set. I don't think I would get another main camera without it.
Yeah that really didn’t make sense to me. Why waste time transcoding, when you can literally have the small proxies ready as soon as you cut recording? Bizarre take. I shoot events now and then, and they often want on day edits for socials, so the turnaround is quick. The additional transcode is a waste of time.
On the gyro stabilisation, Sony have now got a plug-in for Premier and DaVinci and whilst it’s not perfect, it’s so much better than using Catalyst Browse or Prepare. The other issue was that you couldn’t export the finished stabilised footage in the same format, it was always downgraded, particularly if it was an 8K video.
Gyro with BMD cameras couldn't be more streamlined, automatically recorded in the file, just click stabilize with camera gyro in the inspector in resolve, as you would with a normal stab and it's done
I was approached by a client one time and they tried to do a gotcha moment because I didn't have a Netflix approved camera LOL at the time I Didn't Know Better. I felt a little bit insulted but now that I know better they can just kiss my🐒
@@448FILMS Yeah Netflix approved only means something if you're someone filming stuff for streaming platforms on the regular. But even at that point most will rent a arri or something else
Gyro metadata stabilization. If you have a Blackmagic camera, like the 6K Pro or the PYXIS, the Gyro data can be quickly applied in DaVinci Resolve. And it doesn't take long to analyze and apply it. And there's no round tripping, like there is with Sony's Catalyst Browse.
you need telecentric or near telecentric lens design for proper internal ND that do not degrade quality especially on edge, for example Sony EF mount by definition cannot cover it for FF lens (last lens diameter must be bigger than sensor).
I was all about XLR's but since picking up Rode Wireless Pro, I rarely use my FX3's XLR handle for doc work. My onboard mic, I just plug into a WP TX and record 32 bit. I often attach a TX to a boom pole and record my boom mic directly to the TX's 32bit. I monitor sound with the RX. Not having to look at levels is such a relief. The 32 bit sound is every bit as good as my XLR with way more flexibility in post and no clipping.
Gyro Stabilization is a good send and particularly good when used in conjunction with a gimbal for creating rock solid footage. It’s simply better than any other way of doing it
This was very entertaining... geeking on production is fun... It also helps us decide what's important when deciding a new camera... now that Pyxis is an alternative to Sony cameras... thanks guys..
Much inconsistency. 6K underated then telling he prefer FF over S35 for crop. IBIS underated then telling he use gyro data for post IS (that crop on the image)
Neither of them use Gyro, they both admitted it's overrated. Also, there's more advantages to full frame than 6k, they were referring to the lens crop, not resolution crop.
Super35 is pretty underrated for me. Lens choice alone makes it more or less essential. Cookes! Master Primes! Angenuiex Zooms! All significantly less expensive to rent than their full-frame counterparts. *Especially* the zooms. Also, for documentary, having extra reach as the default is more useful to me than having an easier time getting very wide. And shooting at 2.8 on Super35 is a lot less of a nightmare for my focus puller than if we shot on full frame. So less of a need to compromise with light sometimes. I do love what Mark is saying about being able to swap formats on one camera. Having two primes (say, 35 and 85), but feeling like you have a 24, 35, 50, and 85, is pretty great.
11:56 With 12bit BRAW you can reconstruct clipped highlights by using "recover highlights" in Davinci Resolve RAW panel which gives you 1-2 stops extra to keep your shadows clean while still maintaining the highlights clipping. It uses RGB RAW data to inpaint clipped pixels by using surrounding unclipped R or G or B colour channel data as in most cases you clip only 1 or at max 2 colour channels out of RGB. This is impossible with 10bit encoded media as it's in YUV domain, once clipped is clipped forever.
Dual recording and proxy recording are both linked for eaiser transfer files to client. You can just give the person the card or transfer the proxy file for quick overview of the footage. Either way you still have the files in other card that you can take home. Or many times you have second shooter work for you. You just give one card to him. And he can give back to you at end of shooting and he still has a copy of it in another card. This is super useful. Not for safty of my own recording but much more on how convenient to deal with file transfer.
Like you guys touched on in the video, the things you film and the way you film them largely determines the features that matter to you. I think including someone from the VFX world (such as Corridor Digital) would be really interesting as some of the features you guys thought were overrated would be underrated from a modern VFX perspective.
I think gyro is better than you give it credit for mostly for action cam type stuff. Really good for high octane sports shots. Even the best IBIS can’t do everything
Agreed! Besides ibis footage just looks weird and unnatural to my eyes, much like autofocused footage. I used to rely on ibis a lot shooting with Sony and Panasonic in the past and it never looked right to me. Gyro, especially with BMD cameras in resolve is amazing.
The full frame portion I have to agree. It's OVER rated BUT for goodness sakes it gives you the ability to crop where ever you want perse. like undone said "a 35 is a 35..." i'm using a BMC4k for goodness sakes and I absolutely LOVE the footage but for every time I want to use it, I have to literally double back the focal length of the lens choice and on my lil beast workhorse A7 R ii, I select the 24 or 50 or even my Canon 17-85 and it's where I asked it to be. I shoot everything with headroom so cropping is not a factor but full frame just gives better opportunity and future to things we do as camera operators.
Gyro data is defiantly not overrated. You don't have turnoff ibis anymore for to work properl. And with the gyroflow plugin for davinci and other editors the workflow is very easy and fast.
Hi Mark and AOD team! i was looking for a camera sack in years, but every time I google that , I just find camera bags ("sack" is almost "bag" in French). could you Guys share a link to well known brand and model so I can find in Europe? keep on the good vids!
For the lens metadata - this stuff is super useful if you are having this footage tracked / 3D integration / vfx work done - especially if there’s no vfx sup on set recording it manually
Great conversation about needs, possibilities and drawbacks of features! Thanx. IMO it would be great to have a tool to redesign the menus of a camera completely and a hardware switch to toggle between factory menu and maybe 3 user menus (different users or different applications). Memory costs nothing, CPU power is hilarious on cameras and the fallback to the factory menu could always help to have access to each setting ...
I love gryo stabilization. Using the gyroflow plugin within resolve, you can stabilize clips really quickly. I reach for my gimbal less and less in situations where I would need it before. It has its limitations, but if shot with the intention of using gyro, the results can be great.
Thanks for the video both of you. Both of you are great as always, and together even better. Could the two of you go over the Canon C400 + RF 24-105 camera and lens combo for all arond video work (Doc, B-roll, Events, interviews)?
4:12 FF is overrated and I'm probably going against the grain here but speedboosters (a good quality one) not only eliminates any discussion over lensing, it focuses more light to your sensor. That alone, imo, makes FF overrated.
Regarding Full Frame vs. Crop. You say that with Full Frame you still have the crop, because you can crop into the sensor. I found this to be only partially true on my FX3 because the debayering sucks in crop mode. The FX30 has the much better crop picture if you compare them.
Depends on your line of work. The R5C will deliver you the better footage, but the FX3 is slightly more flexible. If you're shooting on controlled environments with a crew, 8K Internal RAW from the R5C is a must, the FX3 doesn't even come close to it. If you're a solo shooter who needs great quality footage but also flexibility, go for the FX3.
@@joaocorreiamedia honestly, I don't really care about 8K RAW. I won't be using it. And on the projects I decide to use 8K, R5C won't be my main camera. But yeah, flexibility is something I am concerned about. R5C weird dual card slot, plus battery life are something I am concerned about. Also, I feel that FX3's autofocus tends to work better in some situations...it sticks better. I am inclined towards FX3. But the Canon fan in me can't seem to let go of the Canon colors.
@@niveshlallfilms I'd say the FX3 is the better option for you. I have a Blackmagic 6K G2, but for some run n gun projects where I need gimbal shots and I have little time to shoot, it's cumbersome to mount the gimbal and then rig up the whole thing again to shoot a few handheld shots, hence why I'm looking for an FX3 to add to my gear list as well.
Like the IBIS, the gyro post-stabilization is good when you are beyond 50mm and especially without a gimbal. Anything below 50mm is usually good enough even without stabilization unless you are seriously legging it.
Internal /external raw recording matter if camera record correctly the raw (all we know that raw is not really raw but ever preprocessed and compressed, arriraw excluded), many times I used h265 and I observe that are more sharp and have false dectails than raw, on different brand, be cause to record a better compressed h264/5 often they are processed, Denoised and add a bit of unsharp mask, this is not good for my eyes that give more videoish look instead of cinelook. Very small detail (super high frequently) are often wasted from that work. Obviously depend of destination of your footage.
I finally posted mine (Part II): ua-cam.com/video/8rqxmaNYEoQ/v-deo.html
Thanks for coming up with this idea, Mark. It was fun, and you're a delight to work with. 🤓🙏
Sound mixer here, timecode not overrated 🥺
💯💯💯💯
Sure , but all an on board TC box actually does , is sync up the camera and TC box when you hit record , it's not taking over from the cameras crystal sync. And so with long takes it drifts . I ,like many, used to think the box TC will take over , but it doesn't , it's only syncing up at the beginning of each take. Only Gen lock with take over from the cameras TC.
@ that’s why Ambient is still the standard no matter how many influencers talk up Deity
Why i only use cameras with Genlock. Gotta get every camera to line up every frame.
Agree, TC is a time saver especially when doing a same day edit
People who don't care about dual cards just haven't (yet) gone through the trauma of losing an entire day's un-re-film-able work to a mystical card gremlin.
Buy a good card and learn to use a fucking computer.
Not to mention you can just stain your reputation and it'll be someone that doesn't do client work that tells you dual card slots don't matter
I don't care about it. I don't use cards whatsoever as cards are to unreliable, flimsi and small. Ever tried to change a SD card during a concert shot with lights flashing all over the place? No thank you. I'm recording on SSD harddrives. Much more reliable, not as easy to lose and much more easier to change blindly (with not much light availeble). I also don't use gigantic volumes like Terrabite, usually I go for 500GB. Way cheaper, in general enough capacity and in the unfortunate case of a failure it's "only" 500GB lost and not 1TB.
Moreover I regularily do a healthcheck on my harddrives. Talking about maintaining your gear.
@@corneliusdobeneck4081 not all cameras record on ssd/drives, also if you are taking about using the usbc to drive, take in mind you have an breaking point, the cable and the ports or if you are talking ssd/drive on an atomos, you still have a flaw, again the cables and the ports. So yes, internal dual recording is better.
@@corneliusdobeneck4081until you rip the not so reliable usb cable out of your camera
Having a card corrupt makes dual card slot INFINITELY valuable. Telling a client thats already paid that what you filmed, which cannot be done again, is gone is VERY NOT FUN
Genuinely surprised at the dual card slot response too. Knock on wood I’ve only had a card get corrupted on me once (and thankfully wasn’t on a client shoot) but knowing that things happen, knowing I have 2x a copy of anything vital is HUGE and for any camera I’d use professionally is an absolute deal breaker. I don’t know what if any shooting Gerald (still) does outside his YT channel so I can see how for him it’s overrated, but I think his indifference toward why it is absolutely critical for others to be very surprising.
I think Gerald is right and shoot mostly on single card camera and never had card issue ever (over 15years).
Just get a good card and have a robust backup and card change system and you will be fine.
@@winngh yup. That's the same logic as "Well I've never been in a car accident. Only bad drivers get in accidents so we don't need to wear seat belts."
The safety feature isn't for when everything's going right 🤗
I've heard this same argument from other shooters but like I said, having even 1 card corrupt will change your perspective, as will a single serious car accident.
But I'm seriously happy for you that you haven't had to deal with it. I don't wish it on anyone
@@winngh memorycards fail. It is not a question of if, but when. As someone who works in a camerastore and dealing with failed cards.
I've had several cards fail, all brand-names like Sandisk and Lexar (Lexar cards were the worst for me). I also format after every download and fairly regularly scan the cards for defects, so it's not like I've been sloppy. I require some kind of dual slot recording, at least on a salvagable codec (proxy won't do).
Sub 10ms rolling shutter just looks more solid. Even if you can't see it, there's a quality about it that makes the footage look more confident.
Definitely.
Lens data, camera metadata, & camera tilt, height, etc. are so underrated specifically if you plan to have someone match move the camera in post, they don’t even record it on actual film sets a lot of the time 😭😭😭
Entertaining video. I have a few standouts:
6K: I must say I’m surprised to see both of you say 6K is overrated. For anyone that shoots anamorphic and needs to conform their footage to 16:9, having the extra resolution is a godsend.
Raw: Since Canons only record 6K in raw, it gives a strong argument for raw recording… plus you can adjust detail in the raw footage.
Agree 100% 6K saved a entire sequence from a film I shot in 2022.
And how many people are actually running Anamorphic lenses vs Spherical glass, for the amount of people who actually need higher than 4K there are a lot more wanting it. Thats why its overrated, doesn't mean its not useful for some instances, just like 100MP medium format photos, just not as many people should be valuing it so much.
They’re talking about their specific workflows and what they shoot for. You might need and appreciate 6k but for them, it’s not really a factor they consider important
@@GParamonovThis ☝🏿
2K, 2.5K, and 4K is pretty much the industry standard. Anything beyond is relatively niche in an already very niche market.
@@GParamonov I do shoot in 6K Open Gate all the time. The zoomability / scalability in post is just stunning.
Keep an eye out for Gerald's sequel to this video releasing on his channel Dec 2nd.
Ahhh. That explains the No Clicky option.
Don't forget to add DGO as a one of the segments!
Haven’t finished the video but I hope SD vs CFExpress is covered.
@@Kennygshoots no they haven't covered it. Depending on what people do, I think SSD recording is the way to go
@@71-FilmsI’m on the fence of c70 or c80 but…I don’t get why they didn’t keep the CFExpress option. Size? Sure but still
Global shutter. For video, yes, for photos it's a different story. For commercial work, lets say sportsteams it is worth millions if you can see the LED signings of sponsors on photos. For that alone it is highly underrated.
THANK YOU. I was shocked at that one.
Cache recording!!! (Pre record) Underrated. Also 240p Underrated!
sounds like a Fs700 user
Once you’ve used it, it’s like… why doesn’t everything have this.
240p? i shoot 1080p minimum
6k is often overrated from who not use them, if you can use it is good to have more frame to stabilize later, to build different framing, to have better resampled 4k and fhd shooting. I just finished a documentary where 6k save the day, be cause most of people cannot be interviewed separated and we can isolate later, 6k give me ability to reframe picture too far or not best framed for run and gun shooting.
True, I’ve been shooting projects this year where the clients also wanted short/reel content. Since my Fuji shoots opengate, I can easily repurpose that footage
19:00 A basic issue with digital stabilization is that it does not solve movement blur. If a camera is shaking around while the shutter is open, each pixel is a mix of what's moving across it, and that blurry mix still remains when the scene is "stopped" from moving.
you can shoot higher shutter speeds to avoid that, of course it will change the texture of the image a bit, but seems to work really well for stationary subjects
That’s why you use it at high shutter speeds but that introduces other problems
@rodrigogaryou dont want high shutter speed as it only looks good with natural motion blur.. cia2607
Mark + Gerald. The collab we never knew we needed🔥
Dual Native ISO has been an absolute game-changer for me as a wildlife enthusiast. I imagine it’s equally invaluable for wedding videographers, given the lighting challenges they face. I use a Panasonic S1 with Dual Native ISO, and I’m consistently impressed-4000 ISO looks fantastic, and I’m not hesitant to push it to 8000 when needed. At this point, I wouldn’t even consider a camera without that feature. It’s also one of the reasons I believe Full Frame cameras deserve all the praise they get.
Issue is that the "dual" magic kicking off at a specific is more noise reduction than a magic stop where it "just gets better". If there was a truly jump in iq at certain iso (like 8000 being better than 6400) that'd show up in raw photos too
but dual/triple native ISO is just a stop gap technology, eventually everything will move to dual gain output (GDO sensor) (or even triple gain)
@cbflarazo: It does. Most cameras have a noticeable DR improvement at ISO 400 against ISO 320, and it is almost as good as ISO 100. In video, the Log profile is rated higher, but it is a real improvement, not just noise reduction trickery.
The features that are important depends somewhat on who you are and what type of photography you do.
Mark said you can "get by without it" when referring to IBIS. You can get by without any of the features you mention. However, the better question might be, which of these features dramatically makes your results better or easier to obtain. In that case, any of those features could be dramatically underrated.
Hi Mark, I have seen on your UA-cam video for fx3 doc setup, You suggest Deity S MIC 2S. Now S MIC 3S also came, shall I go with the S mic 3s or anything you suggest for my fx3 setup? I shoot weddings and Practicing docs.
Gyroflow is so fast, works well as a plugin in Resolve, and has saved a bunch of my shots that weren't possible with the built-in stab algos. Sony Catalyst is the doodoo, like most of their software.
Yes, the problem is not gyro stabilisation it's Catalyst browse. With Gyroflow in Resolve it's much easier.
(And you can use it for more serious stabilisation, but then you have to plan for it, and use higher shutter speed, to avoid those blurry lines. )
I was thinking the same thing. Why talk about it when you're only experience is with the worst implementation of it (Sony) I've been using the built in Gyro with the pocket cameras in resolve and haven't touched a gimbal in forever. Basically 45 degree shutter then use the Real Smooth Motion Blur plugin (better than resolve's motion blur) and you get a perfectly stabilized shot with natural 180 motion. I honestly feel like I discovered something none of the UA-cam community talks about. I might make a video about it...
@@Jeffrey26261 I have a copy of RSMB sitting around so I'll definitely try the 45 degree shutter!
@@Jeffrey26261same, bm user here and it’s epic!
I shot on a news camera for 10 years, a zoom lens and a good mic are the most important things for documentary work. Everything else is gravy lol.
I think Full Frame is overrated in the sense that in the next 5 years you’ll be able to get very high quality super 35 cameras for ridiculously good prices, just because they’re not full frame, but the sensor quality itself is not worse.
The thought that you can probably get an URSA mini 12k in 1 year for 2500.- is just mind blowing to me.
I love the full frame look, but if your project doesn’t really require it, you’d maybe better invest in lenses or lighting or set design or talent.
And the point that so many good and beautiful movies were shot on super 35 is completely valid I think. It really reminds you that the reason your movies are not as good, is not because you can’t afford the full frame sensor, but because you don’t put enough focus on what’s in front of the camera.
And it obviously depends on what kind of work you do. If you do client work it’s surely worth having a full frame, for having the flexibility for different requirements.
So true! I just picked up an Fs7 for $900 CAD + a Canon FD 35-105 f3.5 ($120) on an $80 AliExpress speed booster, really hard to justify an fx6 when i have little interest in auto focus.
If you mostly shoot in 24/25/30 then yes, full frame is overrated, if not, its underrated
@@JojoJoget can you elaborate on this?
@@JoshSher_ I think they mean its easier to get ultrawide FOVs on FF because of lens availability.
I have a Sony a6700 and nine lenses, before I had a Canon 70D and three lenses. I never found either cropped sensor camera wanting for either photos or video. I am not a professional, certainly a serious amateur, even addicted to camera and lens tech and related devices and software since 2016.
1. WHAT GETS REVIEWED: A gap on UA-cam is people doing long-term reviews of the qualities of certain lenses, eg what they suit, what their characteristics are, how best to use them. As a result there is mostly a simplified A vs B comparison mostly of cameras and rarely between a set of full frame lenses versus a set of cropped sensor or other sensor lenses. There are now in the Sony system lots of cropped sensor lens choices. Other brands I know less about.
2. BOKEH: I get plenty bokeh for photos if that's your thing with a Sigma 56 mm f/1.4 and more with a Viltrox 75 mm f/1.2.
3. TRAVEL: A Sigma 18-50 f/2.8 lens is fine for travel and tiny compared to 24-70 mm full frame equivalents.
4. NOISE: What noise my camera generates I can accept and if not then for photos Lightroom does the job for me playing with textures, noise reduction and other tweaks. This skills-based work does not sell lenses or cameras so there is less affiliate revenue for many on UA-cam.
5. VALUE FOR MONEY: Finally, it is common in marketing to up-sell to the expensive and flash. But one of the best-bought cars for me was 30 years ago when I said to the sales guy "I'm looking for value." He switch on a dime and took me to a vehicle I kept for 24 years, then passed onto a friend in need.
Gyro Stability in Resolve for BRAW takes seconds. I'm hopeful that if BRAW comes to the FX3 as well, they'll let us stabilise Gyro within Resolve as well.
it not available on the recorders only for BM camera.
@@hexotech5202 That's a shame.
I have nerve damage through half my body especially in my hips so my balance had been effected. IBIS has helped me indefinitely when it comes to continuing camera work on all my projects. I didn’t really appreciate it till this effected me
now i can officially say ppl underestimate power of raw video.
edit. Not any flavor of any 10 bit 422 can replace 12 bit color information, and ability in post. (Resolve)
@@ernesto_guevara_che agreed. I’ve never understood the “good enough” argument as long as the capture/storage/archive resources are available for content that is worth it.
The "good enough" argument really just comes from people who shoot "content" for youtube or maybe real estate shoots and such where proper color grading is not really a thing
Y’all… If you shoot on Blackmagic and edit in DaVinci, then 12 bit RAW & Gyro Stabilization are not overrated. :)
I don't do any of those... but they sound amazing
Agreed! It's like operating in another world compared to what they're talking about!
@@markbone Thanks for the reply! This video sure was a conversation starter. Love the collab with Gerald! Happy American Thanksgiving:)
@@Jeffrey26261 It’s such a smooth workflow!
You are right, for stabilization and more important for deleteding rolling shutter problems, also on ff cameras you can with small value to delete rolling shutter without affecting motion of subject.
Love seeing you guys together!
6K is underrated.
Definitely. I strongly disagree with them in this very question. 6K has a LOT more detail than oversampled 4K.
14:26 VFX if your trying to match lense in like a 3d program to the camera i could see it saving time by looking at lense meta data. I Could be wrong but im my head for VFX IS verry usefull infomation. Correct me if im wrong tho
Hi, VFX Artist here. And you are absolutely right. Although when you track footage, your virtual lens often doesn't align with what you used onset due to things like lense distortion and cropping. But lens data is always a great reference!
Great video! Just wanted to say that 2001 was shot on Mitchell BFC 70mm cameras so it's not an example of 35mm.
I do love that film.
Here's a pro-tip for never formatting a card by accident! Once it's backed up and redundancy is done, format the card on the computer. Then when you put it in the camera, it'll force you to format it. If it doesn't prompt you, double check with your DMT!
6K 12 bits (Lumix S5 + Atomos Ninja V) They saved an entire sequence from a film that was shot in 2022. I vote for 6K is underrated.
a mark bone and Gerald undone collab was not on my bucket list but im here for it. love this.
14 stops of dynamic range is massively overrated for 99% of users tbh. Curious what Gerald does that requires it so strongly. His studio shots and actual UA-cam videos don't come close to using it. Using HLG on Panasonic is around 10-12 stops, instead of the VLOG which is 12-14 stops, and I find almost all cases HLG is more than enough. Even the clip shown that Mark took still did have clipping in the highlights, and shadows never are pulled all the way up because that flat of an image distorts the mids. I'd love to see common use cases where 14 stops actually matters over 12, beyond a tiny spot brought down.
its also sometimes better to have less stops because the information divides between less sections and you have better quality footage
If you have a mini xlr port giving you poor quality audio it is absolutely 100% guaranteed not because the socket is mini xlr. Something else in the chain is causing that problem. I’ve never used a camera with mini xlrs but I have used countless xlr devices and other balanced audio devices with other connectors and it makes no difference, unless the actual component is broken or of very poor quality.
Electronic Variable ND? Man, that has been a massive upgrade for shooting.
This would’ve been a great feature to talk about
The Jeff Nippard reference unexpectedly made my two UA-cam worlds collide.
Global shutter is extremely useful for motion tracking and stabilization for the VFX workflows so I can see not understanding how valuable it is. Beyond that, some uncontrolled lighting situations where flicker is an issue(especially flashes) any shaky, driving and automobile footage usually looks better naturally without stabilization as well, though that's totally based on preference.
As much as I liked the video I thought there was a lot pooping on the Blackmagic cameras. Downing 12 bit and raw and 6k internal and even mentioning the mini xlrs on the Pyxis as a negative idk kinda weird too me
They don’t use those features so they may not understand how powerful they are. I shoot in 12-bit raw on my Fujifilm & Sigma FP. There’s definitely a different between the 12-bit raw and a 10-bit log image.
At the end of the day, it really depends what your workflow is but when I can, I definitely choose to shoot raw over log.
@ yeah I personally think since Mark Bone got some clout with Delmonte he’s jumped the shark and is becoming annoying he use to be humble and not a Sony snob.
@19:35, best way to make zooms smooth is start close and move away, then reverse in post. It's so much easier to keep everything framed up. Obviously it only works if the talent doing the action backwards doesn't look odd.
Once u go Global Shutter you won't go back, highly underrated
Yeah, I totally disagree with them about global shutter.
@@sonarunyou do have a ton of people making excuses why the Pyxis is a good camera when the rolling shutter is one of the worst out there.
Love this collab
Happy thanksgiving to all the other tech nerds out there that absolutely jam with this style of video. Awesome surprise collab guys!
Loving it
Mark! What monitor are you using at 8:46? I see the autofocus eye box on the monitor!
16:20 We switched from R5 to R5Cs as B-Cams just for the timecode. (Also use C70s and Tentacles.) Great video, btw.
Timecode. I can’t go without it
oh, this is fun. I think proxy recording is huge though, for a crewed set at least... first, to put together dailies with a lut and aspect ratio or even desqueeze burned in already saves a ton of time, esp. at the end of a long day. second - being able to give that footage to the editor/director so that they're looking at mostly colored footage and not staring at log during the edit. Third - the small files are so much easier to upload/download to get footage to the editor quicker if they're not on set. I don't think I would get another main camera without it.
Yeah that really didn’t make sense to me. Why waste time transcoding, when you can literally have the small proxies ready as soon as you cut recording? Bizarre take.
I shoot events now and then, and they often want on day edits for socials, so the turnaround is quick. The additional transcode is a waste of time.
Great video Mark, love seeing the chemistry between y’all!
The fact that I get to now go watch another video with you two legends, is highly underrated 🤙
@markbone I saw the camera sack in Gerald's video. Which one(s) would you recommend?
On the gyro stabilisation, Sony have now got a plug-in for Premier and DaVinci and whilst it’s not perfect, it’s so much better than using Catalyst Browse or Prepare. The other issue was that you couldn’t export the finished stabilised footage in the same format, it was always downgraded, particularly if it was an 8K video.
Thank you for this, just curious, what mic was used during this shot
Gyro with BMD cameras couldn't be more streamlined, automatically recorded in the file, just click stabilize with camera gyro in the inspector in resolve, as you would with a normal stab and it's done
Overrated: "netflix approved". 99% of the people who bring this up about a camera will never work for Netflix anyway.
That’s a fact 😂😂😂
I was approached by a client one time and they tried to do a gotcha moment because I didn't have a Netflix approved camera LOL at the time I Didn't Know Better. I felt a little bit insulted but now that I know better they can just kiss my🐒
And by the way the client was a low tier level wannabe somebody lol
@@448FILMS Yeah Netflix approved only means something if you're someone filming stuff for streaming platforms on the regular. But even at that point most will rent a arri or something else
Netflix doesn't dictate a particular camera to anyone. It's nothing more than a popular fallacy.
5:24 @markbone you can’t crop into S35 in your loved FX6 in 4K
Facts
what about micro vs full size hdmi
Gyro metadata stabilization. If you have a Blackmagic camera, like the 6K Pro or the PYXIS, the Gyro data can be quickly applied in DaVinci Resolve. And it doesn't take long to analyze and apply it. And there's no round tripping, like there is with Sony's Catalyst Browse.
Yep. Resolve fixes rolling shutter distortion, albeit with a little bit of cropping, so that 6K resolution is not so useless after all.
The most underrated is internal NDs.
you need telecentric or near telecentric lens design for proper internal ND that do not degrade quality especially on edge, for example Sony EF mount by definition cannot cover it for FF lens (last lens diameter must be bigger than sensor).
Dual slot recording for the win, always!
I was all about XLR's but since picking up Rode Wireless Pro, I rarely use my FX3's XLR handle for doc work. My onboard mic, I just plug into a WP TX and record 32 bit. I often attach a TX to a boom pole and record my boom mic directly to the TX's 32bit. I monitor sound with the RX. Not having to look at levels is such a relief. The 32 bit sound is every bit as good as my XLR with way more flexibility in post and no clipping.
Thanks Gerald and Mark. I enjoyed hearing both your perspectives. Great collaboration!
Gyro Stabilization is a good send and particularly good when used in conjunction with a gimbal for creating rock solid footage. It’s simply better than any other way of doing it
Fully agree about LUT support being underrated. It’s my biggest gripe about my DJI Mavic 3.
This was very entertaining... geeking on production is fun... It also helps us decide what's important when deciding a new camera... now that Pyxis is an alternative to Sony cameras... thanks guys..
is this an ad for fx30?
FPV Pilot speaking, Gyro Metadata is definitely underrated cause that's the only good way to stabilize fpv footage
I'm suprised you guys didn't coved internal NDs! 😮 Really enjoyed this.
Best part of this was the humor gig! Keep it up, you both should do this once a month! 😎😎
it is so beautiful to see you 2 together
Much inconsistency. 6K underated then telling he prefer FF over S35 for crop. IBIS underated then telling he use gyro data for post IS (that crop on the image)
its called a discussion - I appreciate the details
Neither of them use Gyro, they both admitted it's overrated. Also, there's more advantages to full frame than 6k, they were referring to the lens crop, not resolution crop.
The argument that having ibis means you suck when you don't have it is an odd one 😂 could use that on all the features.
Camera, and an almost immediate reference to a lifting YT channel I follow...?
Hooked
Super35 is pretty underrated for me. Lens choice alone makes it more or less essential. Cookes! Master Primes! Angenuiex Zooms! All significantly less expensive to rent than their full-frame counterparts. *Especially* the zooms. Also, for documentary, having extra reach as the default is more useful to me than having an easier time getting very wide. And shooting at 2.8 on Super35 is a lot less of a nightmare for my focus puller than if we shot on full frame. So less of a need to compromise with light sometimes. I do love what Mark is saying about being able to swap formats on one camera. Having two primes (say, 35 and 85), but feeling like you have a 24, 35, 50, and 85, is pretty great.
Oh HI there. 3:24
Oh hi. Good to see you around here
11:56 With 12bit BRAW you can reconstruct clipped highlights by using "recover highlights" in Davinci Resolve RAW panel which gives you 1-2 stops extra to keep your shadows clean while still maintaining the highlights clipping.
It uses RGB RAW data to inpaint clipped pixels by using surrounding unclipped R or G or B colour channel data as in most cases you clip only 1 or at max 2 colour channels out of RGB.
This is impossible with 10bit encoded media as it's in YUV domain, once clipped is clipped forever.
My wedding photos got entirely lost. Dual cards or nothing at all.
Dual recording and proxy recording are both linked for eaiser transfer files to client. You can just give the person the card or transfer the proxy file for quick overview of the footage. Either way you still have the files in other card that you can take home. Or many times you have second shooter work for you. You just give one card to him. And he can give back to you at end of shooting and he still has a copy of it in another card. This is super useful. Not for safty of my own recording but much more on how convenient to deal with file transfer.
Like you guys touched on in the video, the things you film and the way you film them largely determines the features that matter to you. I think including someone from the VFX world (such as Corridor Digital) would be really interesting as some of the features you guys thought were overrated would be underrated from a modern VFX perspective.
My opinion: these are the two most credible sources in all things creativity and cameras. Awesome to see them in the same video. 💙
6K is nice for punch in in post.
So 14+ DR is necessary but 12bit raw is not? You guys sure you know what you're talking about?
I think gyro is better than you give it credit for mostly for action cam type stuff. Really good for high octane sports shots. Even the best IBIS can’t do everything
Agreed! Besides ibis footage just looks weird and unnatural to my eyes, much like autofocused footage. I used to rely on ibis a lot shooting with Sony and Panasonic in the past and it never looked right to me. Gyro, especially with BMD cameras in resolve is amazing.
The full frame portion I have to agree. It's OVER rated BUT for goodness sakes it gives you the ability to crop where ever you want perse. like undone said "a 35 is a 35..." i'm using a BMC4k for goodness sakes and I absolutely LOVE the footage but for every time I want to use it, I have to literally double back the focal length of the lens choice and on my lil beast workhorse A7 R ii, I select the 24 or 50 or even my Canon 17-85 and it's where I asked it to be. I shoot everything with headroom so cropping is not a factor but full frame just gives better opportunity and future to things we do as camera operators.
Gyro data is defiantly not overrated. You don't have turnoff ibis anymore for to work properl. And with the gyroflow plugin for davinci and other editors the workflow is very easy and fast.
Yeah, only takes seconds and works great
Hi Mark and AOD team! i was looking for a camera sack in years, but every time I google that , I just find camera bags ("sack" is almost "bag" in French). could you Guys share a link to well known brand and model so I can find in Europe? keep on the good vids!
I'm Norwegian and made the same mistake too, lol. The words are mostly interchangeable here also.
@@Fedorevsky haha, did you find one at last?
@@ZBSstudioBE I did!
For the lens metadata - this stuff is super useful if you are having this footage tracked / 3D integration / vfx work done - especially if there’s no vfx sup on set recording it manually
Is it cold or hot in the studio?
Both
Great conversation about needs, possibilities and drawbacks of features! Thanx.
IMO it would be great to have a tool to redesign the menus of a camera completely and a hardware switch to toggle between factory menu and maybe 3 user menus (different users or different applications). Memory costs nothing, CPU power is hilarious on cameras and the fallback to the factory menu could always help to have access to each setting ...
I love gryo stabilization. Using the gyroflow plugin within resolve, you can stabilize clips really quickly. I reach for my gimbal less and less in situations where I would need it before. It has its limitations, but if shot with the intention of using gyro, the results can be great.
I thought this was a gerald undone video haha! Love this collab!
FOOLED YOU
Thanks for the video both of you.
Both of you are great as always, and together even better.
Could the two of you go over the Canon C400 + RF 24-105 camera and lens combo for all arond video work (Doc, B-roll, Events, interviews)?
4:12 FF is overrated and I'm probably going against the grain here but speedboosters (a good quality one) not only eliminates any discussion over lensing, it focuses more light to your sensor. That alone, imo, makes FF overrated.
7:38 I can tell you guys no nothing about shooting to say global shutter is overrated
Regarding Full Frame vs. Crop. You say that with Full Frame you still have the crop, because you can crop into the sensor. I found this to be only partially true on my FX3 because the debayering sucks in crop mode. The FX30 has the much better crop picture if you compare them.
Hey, I am stuck in deciding between R5C and FX3 and this video gave me a certain level of perspective. Thank you so much.
Fx3
Depends on your line of work. The R5C will deliver you the better footage, but the FX3 is slightly more flexible. If you're shooting on controlled environments with a crew, 8K Internal RAW from the R5C is a must, the FX3 doesn't even come close to it. If you're a solo shooter who needs great quality footage but also flexibility, go for the FX3.
@@joaocorreiamedia honestly, I don't really care about 8K RAW. I won't be using it. And on the projects I decide to use 8K, R5C won't be my main camera. But yeah, flexibility is something I am concerned about. R5C weird dual card slot, plus battery life are something I am concerned about. Also, I feel that FX3's autofocus tends to work better in some situations...it sticks better. I am inclined towards FX3. But the Canon fan in me can't seem to let go of the Canon colors.
@@niveshlallfilms What about the C80 or do you need the small size of fx3?
@@niveshlallfilms I'd say the FX3 is the better option for you. I have a Blackmagic 6K G2, but for some run n gun projects where I need gimbal shots and I have little time to shoot, it's cumbersome to mount the gimbal and then rig up the whole thing again to shoot a few handheld shots, hence why I'm looking for an FX3 to add to my gear list as well.
damn, wasnt expecting a sneak peek to cbums doc
No mention of internal variable ND?
I would like a 6K which give you room to crop...SONY!
A7iv is 7k down sampled to 4k
Crazy! You got to work with Cbum. Where can that film?
Like the IBIS, the gyro post-stabilization is good when you are beyond 50mm and especially without a gimbal. Anything below 50mm is usually good enough even without stabilization unless you are seriously legging it.
XAVC SI. Over or under?
Internal /external raw recording matter if camera record correctly the raw (all we know that raw is not really raw but ever preprocessed and compressed, arriraw excluded), many times I used h265 and I observe that are more sharp and have false dectails than raw, on different brand, be cause to record a better compressed h264/5 often they are processed, Denoised and add a bit of unsharp mask, this is not good for my eyes that give more videoish look instead of cinelook. Very small detail (super high frequently) are often wasted from that work. Obviously depend of destination of your footage.
Gyro is awesome, sad you think otherwise
8:12 2-3ms I guess fine but idk for sure if it's enough for shooting scenes with flashing lights or / lightning
Man its good to see you guys. Great vid