@@nunzionapoli6325 I don't think it took an engineer to invent indoor plumbing or many other modern conveniences. Necessity is the "mother" of invention. I don't think the first wheel or firearm was invented by your "engineers"! You give them way too much credit.
No, they never do. Cartridges differences are for humans to understand and appreciate, not deer. A 22 rimfire to the heart is just as deadly as a 300 Win Mag to the heart. But the Win Mag bullet is easier to deliver to that heart from 300 yards out.
I often listen to your channel while my daughter is sleeping/falling asleep. I appreciate your approach on your videos. I know I can learn about cartridges and or firearms without chaos. Just the information looking for! Thanks for another video, I enjoy learning.
I'm 69 now and bought a .243 Win just before I turned 17 and I too have a soft spot for the ,243 Win. I have also killed several truck loads of game with the .243!
I'm not disagreeing, but when I went hunting in RSA for antelope sized game they would not let me use a 243. Reason, too light and velocity too fast for the ranges that the game might be engaged in bush and we might meet something else which would require a bigger round. Used a 30-06. Everything was DRT, but what would you expect at 150yds with a 180gr.
@@csjrogerson2377 What does DRT mean.? ~I saw Jim Shockey hunt with 2x muzzle loader rifles in Africa on TV. A fellow next to him carried his second muzzle loader rifle. Jim took one shot then the fellow handed him the other rifle for second shot, Jim solved the problem of getting off a quick second shot by using 2 rifles.
@@twlongtine Thank you, I will stick with brass metallic cartridges, because muzzle loaders are way too slow with a badly inefficient second shot. Even a single-shot brass cartridge rifle like a 35 Whelen, 338 Win Mag, or 45-70 >>"is" far better and vastly more superior over
The 243 win can drop down to a 58 grain for coyotes, through in a 100 grain SP for whitetails and you are good. 243 a bit more suited to varmint/whitetail. I have been shooting the same bullet/load for both for many years. Try reloading the 85 grain Sierra Gameking HPBT. Lights out with a good shot on both every time. Yes, hammers whitetail.
In my experience currently where I live, the exact opposite is true. 243 ammo is nowhere or very limited selection. 6.5 creedmoor is everywhere and in many many loadings.
I like the .243 w lighter bullets 70 /85 does a better job the 6.5 for deer 120 s 130/. The crede w 140 just don’t get it I have a Swede 140 s normally but I found 120 s just kills better ? Must be the velocity ?
Ron, the 243 is all they need. I shoot 55 grain Nosler BT powered by VARGET, leaving the muzzle @ 3950 fps. I seldom if ever get an exit hole, but if it does...... it's UGLY. For deer/antelope, the 85 or 90gr Nosler Partition. But lately the Barnes 85gr TTSX are kickin butt and takin names.
Parker Hale rifles were and still are popular here in Canada. Most I have used have been sporterized Lee Enfield’s in 303 British. My first rifle was such a gun. Seemed to take game just fine!
I remember when I first moved to texas from Nebraska. To say I was in shock when I saw the turkey damn near dwarfed the deer is an understatement. The biggest texas deer I ever took was the same size as a Nebraska fawn 😂
It's the distance in a strait line horizontal, not at any angle, upwards or downwards. The newest rangefinders have the adjustable readings and have the line of site, and the angle adjusting readings. This will do the trick for the shooting up in the hi country.
Most decent range finders these days have an angle compensation mode that will give you the horizontal distance. Calculate your bullet drop based on horizontal distance and calculate wind drift on actual linear distance and you're done.
The 6.5 is the deer caliber here for sure!!! drops them in their tracks. My first deer with the 6.5 and i tell you i have a new favorite for Deer. They just drop or at least this one did not even one step. Very impressed with this gun i used the 140 grain Hornady . Not only does it drop them in their tracks it is a pleasure to shoot. Glad i picked up this caliber 🙂
DOn't forget the 6.5x55 Swede. The surplus rifles have a fast 1 in 8,6 twist and can stabilize a pretty long bullet. SAAMI loads are reduced pressure rounds because of the number of surplus rifles. Handloaded for modern rifle (lots of them in Europe) The Swede gives up nothing to the Creedmore. It is still widely used in Scandinavia for taking moose and large antelope in Africa
This is true for a lot of classic cartridges. Especially for hunting purposes. While the technical advancements in recent years are neat, they aren’t really necessary. There’s not many problems and man can’t fix with $700 and a .30-06. Or .270, .25-06, .243, 7mm-08, .308 or 6.5 Swede.
The uphill downhill things was a great explanation. Especially about overestimating. Remember as a kid going up to top of John Hancock building and looking straight down ( or so I thought) to see a chalk outline of a body on the sidewalk (someone's idea of a joke) Got outside to find it like almost a block away. Tree stands would be some of your steepest angles depending on how high up and how close game comes to it.
I believe in sticking with old school calibers. I’d go with a 243 and some 80gr tsx for deer & some 80 grain ballistic tips or reg soft points for varmints, but that’s just me
shot my first deer with a .243 at nine years old in the 1990’s as many kids used to do. I am sure that the caliber selection for youngsters and first deer has broadened and expanded over the years with the popularity of .223, new calibers developed, et cetera. But for a time period of maybe forty or fifty years there was an actual tradition amongst many American hunters of “getting your first deer with the .243”
@@daimyo1959 try a gun shop with a large number of used rifles 243 in rem model 700 is just a good lightweight solid rifle and not too light to allow more recoil control with smaller kiddos say 6 and up
@@RamboniiWasn't there an issue with the Remington 700 firing unintentionally? Grease/grime buildup on the sear causing it to go off unintentionally or something?
I love me some precision peep sights. I"m 61 and I still have pretty good eyes.. Sometimes up close it's a little blurry, but hot bad.. I used to have the best eyes when younger and won more than a few local rifle competitions.. Varmint hunted with a rifle with open sights for a long time.. Mini 14. I did use a scope later because I was shooting a really long way with some of the ground hog hunts and needed it to see them at all.. Great show.. Love this show.. Thank you Ron!
We moved to Peoria Illinois back in the mid 60s. It was right about the time that the Shooting Times was getting started. Somehow, my dad got to knwo some of those folks. You kind of remind me of being 10-11 years old and hanging out with him and all these really knwoledgable guys and just talking about species and hunts and elk camps and rifles and cartridges. It really locked me into a lifetime of enjoyment with all the shooting sports from hunting to bullseye pistols to IPSC. Such fun!
I’ve shot squirrels from trees at steeper than 45-degrees, Ron’s reckoning is precisely correct. It works because the scope reticule is orthogonal to the sight axis.
Six of one - half dozen of the other. Both will do the job fine. The 6.5 will retain velocity/energy farther and have less wind deflection if you hunt at longer ranges. The .243 will shoot flatter initially. Hunt with the one you have, or if you're in the market, buy the one you like better.
I killed my first buck with a .243. I just killed my second about 25 years later with a .30-30. I'll kill my next one with a 6.5 Creedmoor. Love your content!
Awesome, my trigonometry class is paying off. Unfortunately, i was really slow at the equation. Thank God the range finder does it in seconds vs. my minutes. 6.5 vs. .243 relevant comparison. Thank you.
I have best of both worlds 6.5 x 55 which was always my deer rifle and a great one, but a couple of years ago a very high quality 243 feel into my hands I suppressed it and put some very good glass on it I'm older and richer than I used to be so why not have something very nice to hunt with I love that it has almost zero blast and minimal recoil but I can't part with the 6.5 after all its still good so I have gifted it to my son who lives a long way away so I can fly down to his place and not take a rifle :)
Had one of those frozen barrels, when I got it back from them, I was amazed at the better groups I got, and also doubles the life of the barrel. Kentucky
I mentioned this Ron, on your "TikTok" or "Instragram" short on this subject. The .243 and 6.5 mm Creedmoor should be compared to 6 mm Remington. Its performance is very comparable and superior in some criteria but the 6mm Remington is often overlooked.
But the same price as the .243 if you reload. Maybe a few more grains of powder depending on bullet weight. I have both, love both, but would choose 6mm Rem if I had to choose one.
@@ryanj9364 if I was a dedicated 6mm shooter, I would choose the 6mm Remington over the 243 win. I’m a handloader though. If I wasn’t a handloader I’d prolly pick the 243 due to more factory offerings. Performance wise the 6mm rem is better than the 243 in my opinion.
My first deer rifle was a 243 when I was 10 years old yes I have other rifles as well but my 243 Winchester is always my go to as Old faithful. Especially with newer hunters or younger hunters that will recall really allows them to make precise shots that hit deer in the vitals every time!
@@ericdanos373 the only deer I’ve ever killed with a different round was a button buck with a 30-30 and it’s the only one I’ve had not just hit the ground with a good shot
Also im enjoying your videos because your knowledge on cartridge is amazing an I like the fact your not like everyone else that thinks you need this giant caliber to kill a white tail... kids knock them down with a 243. Its all about shot placement at the end of the day
Good explanation of shooting up or down angle. Shooting at a downward angle causes a little more bullet rise but they both cause the bullet to strike higher. It's sometimes hard for people to understand this and will argue with the psychics of it.
The Parker-Hale bolt action rifles were Mauser 98s (basically). I used to use the Parker-Hale bolt for my Mauser conversions. They fit a military 98 action perfectly. Most parts were interchangeable but the bolt body of the PH had to use the PH firing pin.
The 243 has been around a long time, and has only others trying to compete,😂😂😂💪 I love my rem model 788, from, 70 grain too 100 grain, it's the rifle under 150 yards I know the bullet will hit with in an inch or so of my aim, at bench, I can drive primers out of back of other center-fire brass, at about ,75 yards, easy over and over, true tack driver, and 100 grain at 100 yards,white tail drop where they stand
If you mainly hunt deer and just hunt coyotes now and then, I recommend the 6.5 Creedmoor. Specially if the deer you hunt have large bodies. The .243 is decent/good on deer, but if you hunt in an area with big bodied bucks, you will need to be much more careful with shot angles than you need with the 6.5 Creedmoor. With the 6.5 Creedmoor you can either use 85-100 grain varmint bullets on coyotes if you don't care about the pelt, and if you care about the pelt, you can either use FMJ bullets or you can use expanding bullets that don't expand much on light game like coyotes and the Barnes TSX bullets are good for that. If you want to keep it simple, you can load the 6.5 Creedmoor with the 120 or 130 grain Barnes TSX bullets and use the same load for both deer and coyotes with great effect. Personally I prefer the TTSX or the LRX bullets on deer, but they are usually not gentle with the pelts. Specially not the LRX. But the 127 grain LRX bullet is an amazing long range hunting bullet on both deer and coyotes. If you mainly hunt coyotes and/or the deer you hunt are not that big, then the .243 is a great choice as well. Even the 223 can work well on deer if you make sure to use high quality bullets, like Barnes bullets, know how to shoot and where to place your shots. I have shot many deer with the 223. And it is a fantastic cartridge for varmints.
.243 win 🥇, tack driver, love the .243 win,, when you log in many year’s hunting, the more you realize the effectiveness and appreciation for shot placement.
@ron, an important note about cryogenic treatments of steels is their purpose is to enhance hardness without developing high Internal stresses. Stresses will make it more likely the barrel could fail or crack under extra force but they wouldn’t cause asymmetric behavior during heating. You might see a a highly stressed barrel warp after getting over heated but once this occurs it would not return upon cooling. It’s important to not confuse hardness, strength and stiffness and other properties. Cryogenic treatments aren’t completely understood either and how they are performed is critical. I’d be careful about how they’re advertised becuase just taking a barrel down to -190C by tossing it in LN2 isn’t going to give good consistent results.
You're correct about there not be a stopping round, I've been knocked over by a cape buff that took 3 X 375 mag and 3 X 458 rounds. It was dead on it's feet but still had enough momentum to knock me over! Big rifles will turn most big game but not stop them.
Hi Ron , I watch you all the time. I am an old hunter, 66 now. I have a 722 Remington rifle chamber in 300 savage. Never see you do anything on the 300 savage. I would like to know what you think about it.
I have a Savage Model 99F in 300 Savage. Love it. Do anything 308 Winchester will do. Hand load for practice. Hunt with Hornady SuperFormance 150 grain. Been trying to get a 722 but haven't found one in good condition that I was willing to fork over the money for.
I have a Savage 99E in 300 Savage. Excellent, handy rifle and the most accurate lever action I’ve ever seen. If you hand load, I’ve gotten an extra 100fps by reforming and cutting 308 brass using the same loads as my reloaded 300 Savage brass. I think the walls may be a bit thicker.
My 722 is chambered in .25-284. Some say the 722 is the strongest action Remington ever built and if memory serves right went out of production in 1954(?).
How about a compromise cartridge for deer and various fur bearing varmints 6mm creedmoor. Capable of launching short fast bullets like .243 and long high BC bullets like the 6.5.
My great grandfather's 303 savage with 190gr soft point dropped my 49 1/2 inch moose last year in Northern BC.. it's been putting game in the freezer since 1909, when he bought it new.
6.5 Creedmoor or .243 Win would be perfect for this role. Carry bullets appropriate for the quarry. Barnes Varmint Grenade for Predator/Furbearer hunting, and Barnes TTSX for medium sized game.
I have Tikka 243 and mossberg patroit predator 6.5 creedmoor and they are good rifle even 303 British those caliber are great for hunting Canada Arctic 🇨🇦 Tikka t3x magazine is only 3 shots .
I've killed over 100 deer and hogs with a 243 the last 40 years. I have two still that are used to kill game every season. I have a couple 6.5s also myself I can't tell the difference in either on game. I use very fast 80 gr ttsx in the 243 and I have shot 180 pound 8 point in the chest straight on the bullet went completely through the whole buck out the back ham. Honestly I think the 7mm08 is a step up and is the very best southern game getter. The other new things are selling points to make money for ammo companies and sell 15 pound rifles and bullshyt kids into thinking they are Quigley from down under.
Good comments bout scope use, and lining up open sights. Critical, but seldome mentioned, is correct stock dimensions. Not quite so much as with a shotgun, but still very important. If your gun doesn't fitn you, you `ain`t getting the best shooting it can provide.
Many rifles would deform bullet tips in the magazine during recoil. I had a ruger 77 in .270 that was bad about that and a Parker Halr .270 that was also prone to deformity tips. I seem to remember that polymer tips were originally designed to address that issue.
On south texas yes come to north texas if a 250 300 pound white tail is small for you i dont know what ? Here in north texas they grown biguer cus they eat a lots of corn 🌽
I'll stick with the 243 win and I own both, I've taken a lot of deer of all sizes with the 243 win and I'm a 30 caliber guy, born with the 30-06, combated the 308 win in the Army and own the 6.5 cm and 243 win and 308, and the 243 just works
I pride myself on shooting well. I have competition shot. But I am a hunter. I did and do One to be better at the other. Hunting is the most important to me.
Love listening to you Ron but I have to pull you up on this one. Gravity is constant. What changes is the horizontal distance to the target. If your target is 600m away up a 45° slope, it’s only approx. 430m away on the level. So adjusting your scope to 600m will see you shoot high. Adjust to 430m and you’ll be on the nose. Glad when I listened further we were pretty much in agreement but the gravitational effect isn’t different
A better way of thinking about angles is to think about it as shooting less distance. So your holdover is less. More like holding on the target and less inches over the target.
Use to have dozens of choices for .243 available commercially here in new england, and now.. just a few. My suspicion is that the 6.5 has become the new "starter", "general use" cartridge. Anyone else see similar?
It's hype. The American cartridges like 243 and 30-06 never die imo. 6.5 creed is great just like many choices though. Hope you see more 243 in the future.
2:02 Bob Johnson question on 45° angle, gravity acts on a bullet with same force regardless of angle. You need to look at time of travel to target, an angle shot travels a longer distance spending more time to target with gravity acting to drop the bullet ever so slightly in that extra difference in travel.
Lyle, you are right. Gravity pulls a bullet set free into the air with the same force all the time. The difference is that at an angle like 45-degrees, it is not pulling it perpendicular to the horizontal flight parabola for which the shooter has zeroed it and computed his drops. Thus, it does not drop as much as when fired at or near level. Angled shots always strike higher than level shots.
If you ask people who literally feed themselves with a rifle, I bet most will choose the .243win. On a moose hunt in Newfoundland my guide told me that every moose that he personally killed was with his .243win. I left mine at home and used a 30.06 and my .270win. The .270 won out only because it was a tack driver!
Keep things simple. For most shooters the .243 is readily available in popular weights. The 6.5mm offers some heavier bullets and all of the good that comes from that. Nosler used to make a 6.5 partition bullet that was so good.
Lo siento, pero tengo que preguntar ¿Quizás puedas absorberlo? Compré un 25/06 durante una estancia en los EE. UU., En mi país no hay puntos para ello, así que uso 270, no pude encontrar la diferencia, aparte del retroceso, pero casi puedo jurar que de 500 a 800 yardas el 25-06 a 270, sin embargo, el viento en contra que este último gana en caída en esta distancia la mayoría de las veces... Mi impresión es correcta???
Ron, the shooting on a hill is simply a horizontal distance. At a 60% slope, COS is .5 so the horizontal distance is 1/2 the distance your range finder tells you. (I am a math teacher, not a good shooter.)
I've bagged countless deer over the years with. 243 ... love the round. It's like the wheel, no need to reinvent it.
I'm glad there aren't engineers that think like that. Otherwise we would wouldn't have indoor plumbing 😅
@@nunzionapoli6325or thousands of other modern day conveniences. Lol. Absolute truth
@@nunzionapoli6325 I don't think it took an engineer to invent indoor plumbing or many other modern conveniences. Necessity is the "mother" of invention. I don't think the first wheel or firearm was invented by your "engineers"! You give them way too much credit.
IF I HAD ONLY ONE RIFLE IN ND 243 FOR SURE BUT I LIKE GUNS SO I HAVE MORE
I have taken deer with .243, .260 rem, 6.5 crdr, and 6.5-284; the deer never knew the difference!
No, they never do. Cartridges differences are for humans to understand and appreciate, not deer. A 22 rimfire to the heart is just as deadly as a 300 Win Mag to the heart. But the Win Mag bullet is easier to deliver to that heart from 300 yards out.
man back in the 2000's you couldn't get me to put my 6.5-284 down lol....what a fantastic round for the time.
I often listen to your channel while my daughter is sleeping/falling asleep. I appreciate your approach on your videos. I know I can learn about cartridges and or firearms without chaos. Just the information looking for!
Thanks for another video, I enjoy learning.
The 6.5 is a great round. But I will always have a soft spot for the 243.
I'm 69 now and bought a .243 Win just before I turned 17 and I too have a soft spot for the ,243 Win. I have also killed several truck loads of game with the .243!
Both 243. and 6.5 creedmoore are great deer cartridges
I'm not disagreeing, but when I went hunting in RSA for antelope sized game they would not let me use a 243. Reason, too light and velocity too fast for the ranges that the game might be engaged in bush and we might meet something else which would require a bigger round. Used a 30-06. Everything was DRT, but what would you expect at 150yds with a 180gr.
@@csjrogerson2377 What does DRT mean.?
~I saw Jim Shockey hunt with 2x muzzle loader rifles in Africa on TV. A fellow next to him carried his second muzzle loader rifle. Jim took one shot then the fellow handed him the other rifle for second shot, Jim solved the problem of getting off a quick second shot by using 2 rifles.
@@royjohnson465 Dead Right There.
@@twlongtine Thank you, I will stick with brass metallic cartridges, because muzzle loaders are way too slow with a badly inefficient second shot. Even a single-shot brass cartridge rifle like a 35 Whelen, 338 Win Mag, or 45-70 >>"is" far better and vastly more superior over
Dead is dead! Take your pick.
The 243 win can drop down to a 58 grain for coyotes, through in a 100 grain SP for whitetails and you are good. 243 a bit more suited to varmint/whitetail. I have been shooting the same bullet/load for both for many years. Try reloading the 85 grain Sierra Gameking HPBT. Lights out with a good shot on both every time. Yes, hammers whitetail.
Nothing wrong with the 58 grain for whitetails. Its hard on em.
Right Jay and one can get 243W everywhere.
95gr HPBT has an amazing BC compared to a lot of other rounds.
I shoot 95 sst in my 243 extremely accurate with 41.7 Imr 4831
@@baobo67you can get 6.5cm anywhere also
I love your vast knowledge of hunting and firearms. Great to see your enthusiasm hasn’t waned over the years either. Thanx so much, a truely great man
Thank you Abbey.
.243 is cheaper and is available at most stores if your in a remote town/location
In my experience currently where I live, the exact opposite is true. 243 ammo is nowhere or very limited selection. 6.5 creedmoor is everywhere and in many many loadings.
For me I can’t find either. 45/70 and 308 is everywhere all the time Around northern Michigan.
Not cheaper
I like the .243 w lighter bullets 70 /85 does a better job the 6.5 for deer 120 s 130/. The crede w 140 just don’t get it I have a Swede 140 s normally but I found 120 s just kills better ? Must be the velocity ?
Thanks for all of your hard work sir!!! Both honest and humble.
I will stick with my 243 .
I look forward to everything you post sir, thank your for what you do!
And I second that !
3rd
Ron, the 243 is all they need. I shoot 55 grain Nosler BT powered by VARGET, leaving the muzzle @ 3950 fps. I seldom if ever get an exit hole, but if it does...... it's UGLY.
For deer/antelope, the 85 or 90gr Nosler Partition. But lately the Barnes 85gr TTSX are kickin butt and takin names.
Thanks!
I learned something new today about how angles effect trajectory. Thank you for that!
Parker Hale rifles were and still are popular here in Canada. Most I have used have been sporterized Lee Enfield’s in 303 British. My first rifle was such a gun. Seemed to take game just fine!
Love your videos. Very informative. Very few people can take corrections with such charisma. Bravo Sir. Keep up the good work.
I’m in Texas. Not everything is bigger here like they say, so pretty much anything works for the Chihuahua size deer.
I remember when I first moved to texas from Nebraska. To say I was in shock when I saw the turkey damn near dwarfed the deer is an understatement. The biggest texas deer I ever took was the same size as a Nebraska fawn 😂
Yukyukyuk! I’m in New Mexico and those Chihuahuas are scared to come over here!
You mean I shouldn’t use my 28 Nosler next weekend?
@@raider2503 always use your 28 Nosler!
@@whoshotashleybabbitt4924 Ay,Ay Captain!
It's the distance in a strait line horizontal, not at any angle, upwards or downwards. The newest rangefinders have the adjustable readings and have the line of site, and the angle adjusting readings. This will do the trick for the shooting up in the hi country.
Most decent range finders these days have an angle compensation mode that will give you the horizontal distance. Calculate your bullet drop based on horizontal distance and calculate wind drift on actual linear distance and you're done.
I really enjoyed the simplistic explanation for shooting up or downhill at game.
For steep shots we have a saying in German: "Ob rauf, ob runter, halt drunter" (If up or down, aim low)
As always a delight to listen to you.
I'll try to remember that.
The 6.5 is the deer caliber here for sure!!! drops them in their tracks. My first deer with the 6.5 and i tell you i have a new favorite for Deer. They just drop or at least this one did not even one step. Very impressed with this gun i used the 140 grain Hornady . Not only does it drop them in their tracks it is a pleasure to shoot. Glad i picked up this caliber 🙂
DOn't forget the 6.5x55 Swede. The surplus rifles have a fast 1 in 8,6 twist and can stabilize a pretty long bullet. SAAMI loads are reduced pressure rounds because of the number of surplus rifles. Handloaded for modern rifle (lots of them in Europe) The Swede gives up nothing to the Creedmore. It is still widely used in Scandinavia for taking moose and large antelope in Africa
This is true for a lot of classic cartridges. Especially for hunting purposes. While the technical advancements in recent years are neat, they aren’t really necessary.
There’s not many problems and man can’t fix with $700 and a .30-06. Or .270, .25-06, .243, 7mm-08, .308 or 6.5 Swede.
That's the one I use.... one of the first.
270
The uphill downhill things was a great explanation. Especially about overestimating.
Remember as a kid going up to top of John Hancock building and looking straight down ( or so I thought) to see a chalk outline of a body on the sidewalk (someone's idea of a joke)
Got outside to find it like almost a block away.
Tree stands would be some of your steepest angles depending on how high up and how close game comes to it.
I believe in sticking with old school calibers. I’d go with a 243 and some 80gr tsx for deer & some 80 grain ballistic tips or reg soft points for varmints, but that’s just me
Old school here too! 243... 270... 308 and yup ...35 remington!
shot my first deer with a .243 at nine years old in the 1990’s as many kids used to do. I am sure that the caliber selection for youngsters and first deer has broadened and expanded over the years with the popularity of .223, new calibers developed, et cetera. But for a time period of maybe forty or fifty years there was an actual tradition amongst many American hunters of “getting your first deer with the .243”
I am looking at buying a .243 for this reason because it will be easier to manage for my wife and kids will be my first deer rifle
@@daimyo1959 try a gun shop with a large number of used rifles 243 in rem model 700 is just a good lightweight solid rifle and not too light to allow more recoil control with smaller kiddos say 6 and up
@@RamboniiWasn't there an issue with the Remington 700 firing unintentionally? Grease/grime buildup on the sear causing it to go off unintentionally or something?
Both work. I like both. .243 is not as easy to find as it used to be. 6.5 is everywhere now. One of each! Good call.
😊25 06
I love me some precision peep sights. I"m 61 and I still have pretty good eyes.. Sometimes up close it's a little blurry, but hot bad.. I used to have the best eyes when younger and won more than a few local rifle competitions.. Varmint hunted with a rifle with open sights for a long time.. Mini 14. I did use a scope later because I was shooting a really long way with some of the ground hog hunts and needed it to see them at all..
Great show.. Love this show..
Thank you Ron!
We moved to Peoria Illinois back in the mid 60s. It was right about the time that the Shooting Times was getting started. Somehow, my dad got to knwo some of those folks. You kind of remind me of being 10-11 years old and hanging out with him and all these really knwoledgable guys and just talking about species and hunts and elk camps and rifles and cartridges. It really locked me into a lifetime of enjoyment with all the shooting sports from hunting to bullseye pistols to IPSC. Such fun!
I’ve shot squirrels from trees at steeper than 45-degrees, Ron’s reckoning is precisely correct. It works because the scope reticule is orthogonal to the sight axis.
Six of one - half dozen of the other. Both will do the job fine. The 6.5 will retain velocity/energy farther and have less wind deflection if you hunt at longer ranges. The .243 will shoot flatter initially. Hunt with the one you have, or if you're in the market, buy the one you like better.
I teach that Math as a High School Math teacher. Your figures are correct (but we already knew they would be). Thanks for the great explanation!
I killed my first buck with a .243. I just killed my second about 25 years later with a .30-30. I'll kill my next one with a 6.5 Creedmoor.
Love your content!
Awesome, my trigonometry class is paying off. Unfortunately, i was really slow at the equation. Thank God the range finder does it in seconds vs. my minutes. 6.5 vs. .243 relevant comparison. Thank you.
I have best of both worlds 6.5 x 55 which was always my deer rifle and a great one, but a couple of years ago a very high quality 243 feel into my hands I suppressed it and put some very good glass on it I'm older and richer than I used to be so why not have something very nice to hunt with I love that it has almost zero blast and minimal recoil but I can't part with the 6.5 after all its still good so I have gifted it to my son who lives a long way away so I can fly down to his place and not take a rifle :)
I use my 243 for Nephilim! My bowie knife for prong and white tail, the look in my eye for coyote!
I thought Nephilim were endangered. How did you get a permit/license?
Ron, Thank you for answering my question. Somehow, I missed this episode until now!
Again, thank you so much!
243
Whew you covered a LOT of property on this one. I find myself agreeing with you. Your presentation and information is spot on. Thank you sir!!!!!!!
💥The 243 is just a sweet Rifle.!!!💥
Had one of those frozen barrels, when I got it back from them, I was amazed at the better groups I got, and also doubles the life of the barrel. Kentucky
1952 FN .243. Never let me down.
I mentioned this Ron, on your "TikTok" or "Instragram" short on this subject. The .243 and 6.5 mm Creedmoor should be compared to 6 mm Remington. Its performance is very comparable and superior in some criteria but the 6mm Remington is often overlooked.
Super expensive ammunition
But the same price as the .243 if you reload. Maybe a few more grains of powder depending on bullet weight. I have both, love both, but would choose 6mm Rem if I had to choose one.
@@ryanj9364 if I was a dedicated 6mm shooter, I would choose the 6mm Remington over the 243 win. I’m a handloader though. If I wasn’t a handloader I’d prolly pick the 243 due to more factory offerings. Performance wise the 6mm rem is better than the 243 in my opinion.
My first deer rifle was a 243 when I was 10 years old yes I have other rifles as well but my 243 Winchester is always my go to as Old faithful. Especially with newer hunters or younger hunters that will recall really allows them to make precise shots that hit deer in the vitals every time!
The .243 Winchester is probably the perfect deer cartridge in my opinion.
It’s an amazing little round.
It’s great for hogs too.
It is!!!
@@ericdanos373 the only deer I’ve ever killed with a different round was a button buck with a 30-30 and it’s the only one I’ve had not just hit the ground with a good shot
6.5 creedmoor and 300 blackout are more fun tho
Also im enjoying your videos because your knowledge on cartridge is amazing an I like the fact your not like everyone else that thinks you need this giant caliber to kill a white tail... kids knock them down with a 243. Its all about shot placement at the end of the day
Good explanation of shooting up or down angle. Shooting at a downward angle causes a little more bullet rise but they both cause the bullet to strike higher. It's sometimes hard for people to understand this and will argue with the psychics of it.
The Parker-Hale bolt action rifles were Mauser 98s (basically). I used to use the Parker-Hale bolt for my Mauser conversions. They fit a military 98 action perfectly. Most parts were interchangeable but the bolt body of the PH had to use the PH firing pin.
The 243 has been around a long time, and has only others trying to compete,😂😂😂💪 I love my rem model 788, from, 70 grain too 100 grain, it's the rifle under 150 yards I know the bullet will hit with in an inch or so of my aim, at bench, I can drive primers out of back of other center-fire brass, at about ,75 yards, easy over and over, true tack driver, and 100 grain at 100 yards,white tail drop where they stand
They both work fine.
Love the 243 ❤
I use a golfing rangefinder with pin finder and slope finder , range it and it gives % of slope and a adjusted yardage up or down! 👍🏴🇬🇧
If you mainly hunt deer and just hunt coyotes now and then, I recommend the 6.5 Creedmoor.
Specially if the deer you hunt have large bodies.
The .243 is decent/good on deer, but if you hunt in an area with big bodied bucks, you will need to be much more careful with shot angles than you need with the 6.5 Creedmoor.
With the 6.5 Creedmoor you can either use 85-100 grain varmint bullets on coyotes if you don't care about the pelt, and if you care about the pelt, you can either use FMJ bullets or you can use expanding bullets that don't expand much on light game like coyotes and the Barnes TSX bullets are good for that.
If you want to keep it simple, you can load the 6.5 Creedmoor with the 120 or 130 grain Barnes TSX bullets and use the same load for both deer and coyotes with great effect.
Personally I prefer the TTSX or the LRX bullets on deer, but they are usually not gentle with the pelts.
Specially not the LRX.
But the 127 grain LRX bullet is an amazing long range hunting bullet on both deer and coyotes.
If you mainly hunt coyotes and/or the deer you hunt are not that big, then the .243 is a great choice as well.
Even the 223 can work well on deer if you make sure to use high quality bullets, like Barnes bullets, know how to shoot and where to place your shots.
I have shot many deer with the 223.
And it is a fantastic cartridge for varmints.
.243 win 🥇, tack driver, love the .243 win,, when you log in many year’s hunting, the more you realize the effectiveness and appreciation for shot placement.
@ron, an important note about cryogenic treatments of steels is their purpose is to enhance hardness without developing high Internal stresses. Stresses will make it more likely the barrel could fail or crack under extra force but they wouldn’t cause asymmetric behavior during heating. You might see a a highly stressed barrel warp after getting over heated but once this occurs it would not return upon cooling.
It’s important to not confuse hardness, strength and stiffness and other properties.
Cryogenic treatments aren’t completely understood either and how they are performed is critical. I’d be careful about how they’re advertised becuase just taking a barrel down to -190C by tossing it in LN2 isn’t going to give good consistent results.
I read that the 243 with a 58 gr bullet is very good for taking coyote and saving the pelt. As good or better than the 22-250.
Thank you for this informative and entertaining presentation.
You are most welcomed, sir.
You're correct about there not be a stopping round, I've been knocked over by a cape buff that took 3 X 375 mag and 3 X 458 rounds. It was dead on it's feet but still had enough momentum to knock me over! Big rifles will turn most big game but not stop them.
I smugly look at one of the 6/6 bull elk mounted in my shop shot with my .243, number 19 elk to be precise......... as Im watching this great clip..
Hi Ron ,
I watch you all the time. I am an old hunter, 66 now. I have a 722 Remington rifle chamber in 300 savage. Never see you do anything on the 300 savage. I would like to know what you think about it.
I have a Savage Model 99F in 300 Savage. Love it. Do anything 308 Winchester will do. Hand load for practice. Hunt with Hornady SuperFormance 150 grain. Been trying to get a 722 but haven't found one in good condition that I was willing to fork over the money for.
I have a Savage 99E in 300 Savage. Excellent, handy rifle and the most accurate lever action I’ve ever seen. If you hand load, I’ve gotten an extra 100fps by reforming and cutting 308 brass using the same loads as my reloaded 300 Savage brass. I think the walls may be a bit thicker.
My 722 is chambered in .25-284.
Some say the 722 is the strongest action Remington ever built and if memory serves right went out of production in 1954(?).
7x65R, 7x57R or 6,5x55 SE
My old rem 788 loves that combo
How about a compromise cartridge for deer and various fur bearing varmints
6mm creedmoor.
Capable of launching short fast bullets like .243 and long high BC bullets like the 6.5.
As for 6.5, I dearly love my Swede.
My great grandfather's 303 savage with 190gr soft point dropped my 49 1/2 inch moose last year in Northern BC.. it's been putting game in the freezer since 1909, when he bought it new.
6.5 Creedmoor or .243 Win would be perfect for this role. Carry bullets appropriate for the quarry. Barnes Varmint Grenade for Predator/Furbearer hunting, and Barnes TTSX for medium sized game.
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I have several bottleneck cartridges but I have 4 243 a bolt a lever a pump and a automatic
I have Tikka 243 and mossberg patroit predator 6.5 creedmoor and they are good rifle even 303 British those caliber are great for hunting Canada Arctic 🇨🇦 Tikka t3x magazine is only 3 shots .
I use a Leupold TBR Range finder. Set for my cartridge. Range your target: it reads the Shooting solution. Do what it says.
Thank you as always Ron. Great information, well presented.
... is there a fast lookup cosine table for when you're being charged by a grizzly running uphill at 20 yds?
Thanks Ron as always very interesting info on the shooting sports.
I've killed over 100 deer and hogs with a 243 the last 40 years. I have two still that are used to kill game every season. I have a couple 6.5s also myself I can't tell the difference in either on game. I use very fast 80 gr ttsx in the 243 and I have shot 180 pound 8 point in the chest straight on the bullet went completely through the whole buck out the back ham. Honestly I think the 7mm08 is a step up and is the very best southern game getter. The other new things are selling points to make money for ammo companies and sell 15 pound rifles and bullshyt kids into thinking they are Quigley from down under.
Really enjoy your show !! Watch as much as I can !
Thanks Bill.
6.5 also has Hornaday 90 grain varmint round.
Good comments bout scope use, and lining up open sights. Critical, but seldome mentioned, is correct stock dimensions. Not quite so much as with a shotgun, but still very important. If your gun doesn't fitn you, you `ain`t getting the best shooting it can provide.
243 as good as it get
Many rifles would deform bullet tips in the magazine during recoil. I had a ruger 77 in .270 that was bad about that and a Parker Halr .270 that was also prone to deformity tips. I seem to remember that polymer tips were originally designed to address that issue.
On south texas yes come to north texas if a 250 300 pound white tail is small for you i dont know what ? Here in north texas they grown biguer cus they eat a lots of corn 🌽
I'll stick with the 243 win and I own both, I've taken a lot of deer of all sizes with the 243 win and I'm a 30 caliber guy, born with the 30-06, combated the 308 win in the Army and own the 6.5 cm and 243 win and 308, and the 243 just works
I pride myself on shooting well. I have competition shot. But I am a hunter. I did and do One to be better at the other. Hunting is the most important to me.
Love listening to you Ron but I have to pull you up on this one. Gravity is constant. What changes is the horizontal distance to the target. If your target is 600m away up a 45° slope, it’s only approx. 430m away on the level. So adjusting your scope to 600m will see you shoot high. Adjust to 430m and you’ll be on the nose.
Glad when I listened further we were pretty much in agreement but the gravitational effect isn’t different
My neighbor went to Colorado every year to hunt elk using a 30-06 automatic rifle never had an issue hunting elk
The Hornady bullet is called “The Interlock” not the interbond as what was said.
I used to use a .243 for whitetails loaded with a 90gr Barnes X bullet & Varget. Never lost a deer.
How much Varget?
I don’t recall. I used a Barnes manual and went a few grains under max.
Another great one Ron! 👍👍
Thanks Mike.
Trimming my plants in the basement well listening to Ron. Thanks for the great content my favorite gun channel on UA-cam cheers from Canada 🍻
Some say trimming some say shaping. I’m guessing it’s not tomato plants
😅 LOL
A better way of thinking about angles is to think about it as shooting less distance. So your holdover is less. More like holding on the target and less inches over the target.
100 grain boat tail soft point 243,,, I have never had to track a deer after I hit em with my hand loads,,, 😉👍
Use to have dozens of choices for .243 available commercially here in new england, and now.. just a few. My suspicion is that the 6.5 has become the new "starter", "general use" cartridge. Anyone else see similar?
It's hype. The American cartridges like 243 and 30-06 never die imo. 6.5 creed is great just like many choices though. Hope you see more 243 in the future.
2:02 Bob Johnson question on 45° angle, gravity acts on a bullet with same force regardless of angle. You need to look at time of travel to target, an angle shot travels a longer distance spending more time to target with gravity acting to drop the bullet ever so slightly in that extra difference in travel.
Lyle, you are right. Gravity pulls a bullet set free into the air with the same force all the time. The difference is that at an angle like 45-degrees, it is not pulling it perpendicular to the horizontal flight parabola for which the shooter has zeroed it and computed his drops. Thus, it does not drop as much as when fired at or near level. Angled shots always strike higher than level shots.
Core Lokt Tipped is a redesigned profile from what I have read..its not simply a tip stuck in the tip of the old one.
dry homogenous materials in a pile generally experience slope failure when the angle of repose (the resting slope angle) exceeds 33-37°
If you ask people who literally feed themselves with a rifle, I bet most will choose the .243win. On a moose hunt in Newfoundland my guide told me that every moose that he personally killed was with his .243win. I left mine at home and used a 30.06 and my .270win. The .270 won out only because it was a tack driver!
Keep things simple. For most shooters the .243 is readily available in popular weights. The 6.5mm offers some heavier bullets and all of the good that comes from that. Nosler used to make a 6.5 partition bullet that was so good.
Great information. Good job. Thank you for the hard work.
Would a 25-06 do the same job? Maybe for deer/elk?
Yes
Lo siento, pero tengo que preguntar
¿Quizás puedas absorberlo? Compré un 25/06 durante una estancia en los EE. UU., En mi país no hay puntos para ello, así que uso 270, no pude encontrar la diferencia, aparte del retroceso, pero casi puedo jurar que de 500 a 800 yardas el 25-06 a 270, sin embargo, el viento en contra que este último gana en caída en esta distancia la mayoría de las veces...
Mi impresión es correcta???
Ron, the shooting on a hill is simply a horizontal distance. At a 60% slope, COS is .5 so the horizontal distance is 1/2 the distance your range finder tells you. (I am a math teacher, not a good shooter.)
Inside 300 yards and under 300 pounds are my personal restrictions for the. 243. That goes out to 450 for both criteria with the Creedmoor.