Hi Anna! I don't usually comment any video, but I could feel your anger and disappointment in your eyes.. I completely understand it and I guess after such a huge investment you expect something really different too. I am feeling the same at College this year, I guess I don't even know if I should continue next year ( 3rd year of CS, got kids, part-time work, daily chores.. just want to be a normal person again :) ). What do you recommend to people like me to keep motivated with coding but hadn't got any support?
Hi Gar lic. I really appreciate your writing this comment, you are right I feel angry at times and other times feel like I was taken advantage of. It is not an easy thing to deal with and there is no silver bullet for it. You have a lot on your plate and it is not easy to deal with situations when something is not going as expected or promised, but you have to not be let down by it. Challenges and changes are constants that will always be part of life and especially in software engineering. You have to develop resilience and grit and stay true to your goal and strategically move towards it, while checking in with yourself and take care of your physical and mental health.
Hey, i just read your comment and just had to say something, i cant help it. I had to do the same as you, but i made it through and have now been in industry for a lil over 2 years. I had a lot going on as well (full-time school, wife, young child, and actually an Army reservist too) because i decided to go back for a CS degree when i was 34 years old. Please don't give up, unless it is absolutely necessary! My family and i are now finally financially set because of going through school, getting an internship and getting hired. I had a but of shit jobs in my 20s and now i actually have a real career! Work hard, learn forward, never quit!! It will be worth it
Hi, I'm a degree-qualified engineer, with over 10 years in industry. I'm really interested to know if you stuck with it and graduated? I'm here because I'm researching training courses/boot camps. I have... concerns... about how software development is taught and I'm thinking about doing something about it...
@Xiaoran Meng A *good* degree will enable you to develop understanding of the fundamentals that underpin software engineering. This will make you a better developer in the long-term. Of course, there Is the caveat that a degree gives you back what you put in and that it's the start, not the end; you need to practice and continue learning from multiple sources. One of *the* most important elements of completing a degree is that it takes 3 years. You have to work at something for no reward for 3 years. This is really important, especially if you're young and don't have a similar experience.
As someone that works with bootcamps, I'm well aware of the perceived discrepancy between what you pay for and what you get. As such, I always try to provide as much service as I can as an instructor/TA. It's really frustrating to see students go through your experience. I never worked with AppAcademy but I really want to validate your experience. It's all too common and it's not okay.
I had the same experience with Thinkful. Mentors were under-qualified and checked out, the HR people throw out a lot of bullshit and ultimately you're just getting some mediocre accountability meetings and a textbook for $10k. Technical assistance was slow and usually didn't know how to solve my problem or teach me so they would just stall with questions then go on break. I can only assume that actual good engineers have better opportunities than teaching at a boot camp, that's why it's like this. At least I learned to read the docs and figure things out for myself, that's what the job is about anyway. 10k is a lot to spend on that lesson though.
The lesson about your experience, in my opinion, is that today we are the main factor to learn whatever related IT discipline (programming language, frameworks, etc.). Also, on the Internet, there are tons of cheaper courses with great and valuable resources as well. But again we are the ones that need to be committed to ourselves and work hard to learn what we want to. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Anna, hope you are well. I'm an experienced, degree-qualified Software Engineer. I love what I do, so hearing that THIS was your experience makes me ANGRY! Software development is a craft that requires working with people, creativity, and - most importantly - openness and honesty. I firmly believe that it is the ideal career for women with the right aptitude, as it one one that can fit around family incredibly easily! Your experience is terrible, not just for the personal damage it does, but for the wider impact on the industry - you *should* come out of a course feeling happy, confident and passionate about the subject (unless, of course, you realise that it's just not for you...) You should NEVER be in a position where you feel you can't speak-up. Telling the emperor he is naked is a key requirement of being a GOOD professional engineer; courses like this train-in bad habits that need to be unlearnt later.
At this point I'm starting to think it might actually just be better for me to go to a Computer Science community college course or something, almost every "boot camp" seems to have only horror stories associated with it. For what they're charging, it's kind of nerve wracking.
I do not want to discourage going to a Bootcamp, because they have their place. What I am trying to convey is do your due diligence, know what you are paying for, then compare with other options that will get you to your results, see what is the effort, resources, timeline, cost etc and see what suits you best.
I feel it's most important to know what tech jobs are available where you plan to work. For me i became a defense contractor, partially b/c those were most of the jobs in my area. From the research I did, i determined that I would have to go back to school for CS (most Fortune 500 companies prefer/require a degree), so that's what i did. As best as you can, know what you need to learn and focus on that.
I was supposed to have my meeting with them tomorrow at 1:30 this video as well as reading other reviews have made me cancel the meeting. I feel like you saved me 30,000 and A LOT of anger sadness frustration and heartache. THANK YOU SO MUCH, you literally just saved me 30,000 I can not thank you enough. thank you thank you thank you.
I think this may be typical of most bootcamps. Some are for beginners, others for intermediate level. And also careful research of the actual curriculum... For example, the TRUE syllabus of what will be taught. For example if you know you want to learn Ruby (or not) it's vital to do heavy pre-research. I want to learn backend but can't afford the more reputable programs.
I went to another bootcamp and my experience was similar. I liked it though. There were plenty of tough questions and challenges. But overall I enjoyed struggling through them. For those of you who are surveying different bootcamps, note that the cons she had mentioned is present in pretty much all bootcamps. And at the core of it, you are pretty much just struggling through problems that you do not know how to solve/approach.
While there is a LOT of value in figuring things out for yourself - fostering creativity and proving that you can - it shouldn't leave you angry and resentful. This brings up an interesting question about the purpose and value. Taking the direct analogue of a military bootcamp (basic training); a bootcamp leaves very little flexibility. You are taught how to do everything in the same way as everyone else. There's very little "figuring out for yourself". Given the VERY short time these bootcamps run, my sense is that this analogy is actually a very good guide. There are a lot of skills - approaches to problem solving - that form the core of what you do day-to-day. This should be the focus IMO, to drill-in these approaches in a consistent way, so they become second nature. I don't see this having a detrimental effect on creativity in the long-term. This is about adding a skill and developing discipline. Besides, nothing stifles creativity more than stress. Indeed, much of what we do is applying the same patterns to different problems anyway! Plus, of you come out of a bootcamp and think you have enough to BE "creative" in your problem solving, then you're not going to last long...
@CucumbersAnonymous I disagree with the second half. I know people who have done other coding bootcamps and know people who have done a/A (I also have done a/A myself recently). A/A is different from other coding bootcamp experiences, especially if you do their newer longer online full-time program and are on the ISA contract. To any viewers, particularly if you're a prospective student, I strongly encourage watching her second video on a/A given this is her first one (she has two total). The second one goes into more details on a/A that still hold true ~2 years later. At CIRR (Council on Integrity in Results Reporting) they've never been transparent and at BBB (Better Business Bureau) they aren't accredited and have been reported twice recently.
While I listen to your video, that make me recall the first bootCamp which I started learn in Thailand. The price not that expensive like USA but more for us.
If you were to go to a different bootcamp, which one would you choose? Or do you feel it was not valuable at all? And, if you don't mind me asking, where did you attend? meaning what state? I'm in NY and I'm thinking about going to App Academy in March and all I've heard is good. So I'm glad I found your video.
Considering how rigorous this bootcamp sounds, was it possible to miss a day? For example, if someone had a doctors appointment one day, what would happen?
Hey app academy offers free and open material which they used to teach the paid bootcamp students so does it worth it or I should focus on the odin project?
Is it 16 week curriculum better than the 24 week online one? The 24 week one maybe newer but I believe the 16 week one was done by Ned an ex-high level google engineer and the co-founder of App Academy. Despite Ruby being used less than Python, I wonder if the 16 week program is better due to its maturity.
To be honest, I just don't understand how you have had a job as a software developer for years, yet after all that still feel the need to pay for a bootcamp. All your points do not surprise me at all, and I just expect bootcamps to be exactly like that.
As I previously mentioned, I was an engineer and my experience was in enterprise software I have not done any web development and I thought that a coding bootcamp would be the right things given my circumstances
All the bootcamp is about the same i think. It all gives you just enough skills to get your feet wet, but not a golden ticket to a job. They give you the right direction, but most students will need to continue sharpening their skills on their own after the program before they can finally land a job. But eventually pretty much all the graduates will land a solid job within a year or 2. But those months before getting a job would be quite a struggle, speaking from personal experience.
I don't think so. Some are ran differently than others. a/A runs on fear while students are in it (fear of deferring, being dismissed, speaking out, getting strikes, etc.). Their curriculum quality varies a lot per program type (part-time and full-time 16 week vs 24 week) and they've used their reputation of former quality for their current one at times. At CIRR (Council on Integrity in Results Reporting) they've never been transparent and at BBB (Better Business Bureau) they aren't accredited and have been reported twice recently.
@@HolisticDeveloper when did you attend to app academy if you have been a dev since 2012? I am not doing great on my first entry-level tech job, and wondering if going to BootCamp will help me have another go for the field?
Thanks for your reviews l am planning to join in App bootcamp next month, since l like coding and out of budget. l will join it 😂 and bay letter Thanks for your reviews l am planning to join in App bootcamp next month, since l like coding and out of budget. l will join it 😂 and pay latter
@@Frisbeethrower you will have to pay for every hour you spent at aA for a specified rate. I think the rate that was in 2020 was something above $360 per hour
@@HolisticDeveloper How does that work if you select the deferred payment option (where you don't pay until you get a job)? Would they charge you if you get kicked out but are still jobless? Or if you find a job before graduating and drop out voluntarily?
@@cvxcfv Wow. My response was a genuine alternative, not "smug". If you're going to jump on people like that, I can tell you that you have a problem. I actually liked your original comment - I don't know what it's like to live in SF and it is a reasonable explanation. I simply offered an alternative hypothesis, that I felt was reasonable. Seriously, if a simple alternative suggestion sets you off, you have some bad wiring that needs fixing. You need to make that your number 1 priority because it'll undermine anything else you set out to achieve.
Hi Anna, hope you are well. I'm an experienced, degree-qualified Software Engineer. I love what I do, so hearing that THIS was your experience makes me ANGRY! Software development is a craft that requires working with people, creativity, and - most importantly - openness and honesty. I firmly believe that it is the ideal career for women with the right aptitude, as it one one that can fit around family incredibly easily! Your experience is terrible, not just for the personal damage it does, but for the wider impact on the industry - you *should* come out of a course feeling happy, confident and passionate about the subject (unless, of course, you realise that it's just not for you...) You should NEVER be in a position where you feel you can't speak-up. Telling the emperor he is naked is a key requirement of being a GOOD professional engineer; courses like this train-in bad habits that need to be unlearnt later.
Hi Anna! I don't usually comment any video, but I could feel your anger and disappointment in your eyes.. I completely understand it and I guess after such a huge investment you expect something really different too. I am feeling the same at College this year, I guess I don't even know if I should continue next year ( 3rd year of CS, got kids, part-time work, daily chores.. just want to be a normal person again :) ). What do you recommend to people like me to keep motivated with coding but hadn't got any support?
Hi Gar lic. I really appreciate your writing this comment, you are right I feel angry at times and other times feel like I was taken advantage of. It is not an easy thing to deal with and there is no silver bullet for it.
You have a lot on your plate and it is not easy to deal with situations when something is not going as expected or promised, but you have to not be let down by it. Challenges and changes are constants that will always be part of life and especially in software engineering. You have to develop resilience and grit and stay true to your goal and strategically move towards it, while checking in with yourself and take care of your physical and mental health.
Hey, i just read your comment and just had to say something, i cant help it. I had to do the same as you, but i made it through and have now been in industry for a lil over 2 years. I had a lot going on as well (full-time school, wife, young child, and actually an Army reservist too) because i decided to go back for a CS degree when i was 34 years old.
Please don't give up, unless it is absolutely necessary! My family and i are now finally financially set because of going through school, getting an internship and getting hired. I had a but of shit jobs in my 20s and now i actually have a real career! Work hard, learn forward, never quit!! It will be worth it
Hi, I'm a degree-qualified engineer, with over 10 years in industry.
I'm really interested to know if you stuck with it and graduated?
I'm here because I'm researching training courses/boot camps. I have... concerns... about how software development is taught and I'm thinking about doing something about it...
@Xiaoran Meng A *good* degree will enable you to develop understanding of the fundamentals that underpin software engineering. This will make you a better developer in the long-term.
Of course, there Is the caveat that a degree gives you back what you put in and that it's the start, not the end; you need to practice and continue learning from multiple sources.
One of *the* most important elements of completing a degree is that it takes 3 years. You have to work at something for no reward for 3 years. This is really important, especially if you're young and don't have a similar experience.
@@nontraditionaltech2073 So are you saying go for a CS degree and not BootCamp?
As someone that works with bootcamps, I'm well aware of the perceived discrepancy between what you pay for and what you get. As such, I always try to provide as much service as I can as an instructor/TA. It's really frustrating to see students go through your experience.
I never worked with AppAcademy but I really want to validate your experience. It's all too common and it's not okay.
I had the same experience with Thinkful. Mentors were under-qualified and checked out, the HR people throw out a lot of bullshit and ultimately you're just getting some mediocre accountability meetings and a textbook for $10k. Technical assistance was slow and usually didn't know how to solve my problem or teach me so they would just stall with questions then go on break. I can only assume that actual good engineers have better opportunities than teaching at a boot camp, that's why it's like this.
At least I learned to read the docs and figure things out for myself, that's what the job is about anyway. 10k is a lot to spend on that lesson though.
Came for the bootcamp review. Stayed for the asmr.
The lesson about your experience, in my opinion, is that today we are the main factor to learn whatever related IT discipline (programming language, frameworks, etc.). Also, on the Internet, there are tons of cheaper courses with great and valuable resources as well. But again we are the ones that need to be committed to ourselves and work hard to learn what we want to.
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Anna, hope you are well.
I'm an experienced, degree-qualified Software Engineer. I love what I do, so hearing that THIS was your experience makes me ANGRY!
Software development is a craft that requires working with people, creativity, and - most importantly - openness and honesty.
I firmly believe that it is the ideal career for women with the right aptitude, as it one one that can fit around family incredibly easily!
Your experience is terrible, not just for the personal damage it does, but for the wider impact on the industry - you *should* come out of a course feeling happy, confident and passionate about the subject (unless, of course, you realise that it's just not for you...)
You should NEVER be in a position where you feel you can't speak-up. Telling the emperor he is naked is a key requirement of being a GOOD professional engineer; courses like this train-in bad habits that need to be unlearnt later.
At this point I'm starting to think it might actually just be better for me to go to a Computer Science community college course or something, almost every "boot camp" seems to have only horror stories associated with it. For what they're charging, it's kind of nerve wracking.
I do not want to discourage going to a Bootcamp, because they have their place. What I am trying to convey is do your due diligence, know what you are paying for, then compare with other options that will get you to your results, see what is the effort, resources, timeline, cost etc and see what suits you best.
soo all of us are here trying to find a good bootcamp that's trustworthy and isn't 20k for bull****. stressful process indeed.
I feel it's most important to know what tech jobs are available where you plan to work. For me i became a defense contractor, partially b/c those were most of the jobs in my area. From the research I did, i determined that I would have to go back to school for CS (most Fortune 500 companies prefer/require a degree), so that's what i did. As best as you can, know what you need to learn and focus on that.
Can I just say your voice is soo soothing
What are your thoughts about what I shared in this video? Anything surprising?
I was supposed to have my meeting with them tomorrow at 1:30 this video as well as reading other reviews have made me cancel the meeting. I feel like you saved me 30,000 and A LOT of anger sadness frustration and heartache. THANK YOU SO MUCH, you literally just saved me 30,000 I can not thank you enough. thank you thank you thank you.
I think this may be typical of most bootcamps. Some are for beginners, others for intermediate level. And also careful research of the actual curriculum...
For example, the TRUE syllabus of what will be taught. For example if you know you want to learn Ruby (or not) it's vital to do heavy pre-research. I want to learn backend but can't afford the more reputable programs.
Are you from Syria? I used to work with a dentist from Syria and his accent was exactly like yours. Pretty cool 👌
I went to another bootcamp and my experience was similar. I liked it though. There were plenty of tough questions and challenges. But overall I enjoyed struggling through them.
For those of you who are surveying different bootcamps, note that the cons she had mentioned is present in pretty much all bootcamps. And at the core of it, you are pretty much just struggling through problems that you do not know how to solve/approach.
While there is a LOT of value in figuring things out for yourself - fostering creativity and proving that you can - it shouldn't leave you angry and resentful.
This brings up an interesting question about the purpose and value.
Taking the direct analogue of a military bootcamp (basic training); a bootcamp leaves very little flexibility. You are taught how to do everything in the same way as everyone else. There's very little "figuring out for yourself".
Given the VERY short time these bootcamps run, my sense is that this analogy is actually a very good guide.
There are a lot of skills - approaches to problem solving - that form the core of what you do day-to-day. This should be the focus IMO, to drill-in these approaches in a consistent way, so they become second nature.
I don't see this having a detrimental effect on creativity in the long-term. This is about adding a skill and developing discipline. Besides, nothing stifles creativity more than stress.
Indeed, much of what we do is applying the same patterns to different problems anyway! Plus, of you come out of a bootcamp and think you have enough to BE "creative" in your problem solving, then you're not going to last long...
@CucumbersAnonymous I disagree with the second half. I know people who have done other coding bootcamps and know people who have done a/A (I also have done a/A myself recently). A/A is different from other coding bootcamp experiences, especially if you do their newer longer online full-time program and are on the ISA contract. To any viewers, particularly if you're a prospective student, I strongly encourage watching her second video on a/A given this is her first one (she has two total). The second one goes into more details on a/A that still hold true ~2 years later. At CIRR (Council on Integrity in Results Reporting) they've never been transparent and at BBB (Better Business Bureau) they aren't accredited and have been reported twice recently.
i love these honest videos! Please do more honest rants
Then you would love the next one
While I listen to your video, that make me recall the first bootCamp which I started learn in Thailand. The price not that expensive like USA but more for us.
Out sourcing education?! That’s a hell no for me
Like why pay for a school when you can just find their curriculum somewhere on the web
Thank you for this it helps tremendously for anticipated students trying to start a Boot Camp
If you were to go to a different bootcamp, which one would you choose? Or do you feel it was not valuable at all? And, if you don't mind me asking, where did you attend? meaning what state? I'm in NY and I'm thinking about going to App Academy in March and all I've heard is good. So I'm glad I found your video.
Considering how rigorous this bootcamp sounds, was it possible to miss a day? For example, if someone had a doctors appointment one day, what would happen?
I wouldn’t miss a day as a current student
Hey app academy offers free and open material which they used to teach the paid bootcamp students so does it worth it or I should focus on the odin project?
Is it 16 week curriculum better than the 24 week online one? The 24 week one maybe newer but I believe the 16 week one was done by Ned an ex-high level google engineer and the co-founder of App Academy. Despite Ruby being used less than Python, I wonder if the 16 week program is better due to its maturity.
It might as well be better and I think in person should be better too
To be honest, I just don't understand how you have had a job as a software developer for years, yet after all that still feel the need to pay for a bootcamp. All your points do not surprise me at all, and I just expect bootcamps to be exactly like that.
As I previously mentioned, I was an engineer and my experience was in enterprise software I have not done any web development and I thought that a coding bootcamp would be the right things given my circumstances
All the bootcamp is about the same i think. It all gives you just enough skills to get your feet wet, but not a golden ticket to a job. They give you the right direction, but most students will need to continue sharpening their skills on their own after the program before they can finally land a job. But eventually pretty much all the graduates will land a solid job within a year or 2. But those months before getting a job would be quite a struggle, speaking from personal experience.
I don't think so. Some are ran differently than others. a/A runs on fear while students are in it (fear of deferring, being dismissed, speaking out, getting strikes, etc.). Their curriculum quality varies a lot per program type (part-time and full-time 16 week vs 24 week) and they've used their reputation of former quality for their current one at times. At CIRR (Council on Integrity in Results Reporting) they've never been transparent and at BBB (Better Business Bureau) they aren't accredited and have been reported twice recently.
incredible videos
Thank you for your support
Since watching your video and researching this program, it's not the career for me but will use your video for ASMR ^,^
I no nothing about coding, how do i even get started?
CS50 by Harvard is great to get started and it is absolutely free. You can find them on youtube or edx
how long have you been coding before u got ur first job? thank u for ur honest review!
After I graduated from university in middle of 2010 moved to 🇺🇸 and my first coding job got at the beginning of 2012
@@HolisticDeveloper when did you attend to app academy if you have been a dev since 2012? I am not doing great on my first entry-level tech job, and wondering if going to BootCamp will help me have another go for the field?
Thanks for your reviews
l am planning to join in App bootcamp next month, since l like coding and out of budget. l will join it 😂 and bay letter Thanks for your reviews
l am planning to join in App bootcamp next month, since l like coding and out of budget. l will join it 😂 and pay latter
It is a very obvious: id you are smart, then forget bootcamps, otherwise do.
How many times could you get less than an 80% and not get kicked out
It was up to 4 times
@@HolisticDeveloper Say you fail five times so you get kicked out. Would you have to pay for the entire program? or would you just lose your deposit
@@Frisbeethrower you will have to pay for every hour you spent at aA for a specified rate. I think the rate that was in 2020 was something above $360 per hour
@@HolisticDeveloper wild, that is what Caribbean medical schools do too
@@HolisticDeveloper How does that work if you select the deferred payment option (where you don't pay until you get a job)?
Would they charge you if you get kicked out but are still jobless? Or if you find a job before graduating and drop out voluntarily?
I'm sorry, is she whispering?
Her TA is listening outside. In all honesty, she probably lives in an apartment in SF (&recording at night) so she's being a mindful neighbor :)
@@cvxcfv Or has children?
@@edwardcullen1739 do you feel better with that smug response? You belong in SF
@@cvxcfv Makes sense then... Thanks for that insight, I hadn't thought about that...
@@cvxcfv Wow. My response was a genuine alternative, not "smug".
If you're going to jump on people like that, I can tell you that you have a problem.
I actually liked your original comment - I don't know what it's like to live in SF and it is a reasonable explanation.
I simply offered an alternative hypothesis, that I felt was reasonable.
Seriously, if a simple alternative suggestion sets you off, you have some bad wiring that needs fixing. You need to make that your number 1 priority because it'll undermine anything else you set out to achieve.
nice videos mam
Idk why you whispering… i cant hear a damn thing.
What do you talk like somebody is sleeping in the next room, you scare me 😂
Because someone is sleeping in the next room 🙂
15 minutes of not really saying anything.
boring
Hi Anna, hope you are well.
I'm an experienced, degree-qualified Software Engineer. I love what I do, so hearing that THIS was your experience makes me ANGRY!
Software development is a craft that requires working with people, creativity, and - most importantly - openness and honesty.
I firmly believe that it is the ideal career for women with the right aptitude, as it one one that can fit around family incredibly easily!
Your experience is terrible, not just for the personal damage it does, but for the wider impact on the industry - you *should* come out of a course feeling happy, confident and passionate about the subject (unless, of course, you realise that it's just not for you...)
You should NEVER be in a position where you feel you can't speak-up. Telling the emperor he is naked is a key requirement of being a GOOD professional engineer; courses like this train-in bad habits that need to be unlearnt later.