@NAVYMAN8903 it's why I like your channel so much I understand your thought process and appreciate it. Plus the humor and cat cameos are funny as hell. Also this will be my first optic purchase so I need to make up for lack of experience with raw data
I have a chinesium 1-6, the acss nova from primary arms. It's really not a bad optic at all. Basically an improved viper pst gen 2 for $340. That said I'm saving my money for a NF nx8 or an atacr. The fact that nf doesn't offer a discount for those of us who are forklift certified is a travesty of justice.
But, having your forklift certification is huge, and they couldn't ship the optics without you....so they should. But the ATACR is going on 1 or 2 of my builds, so I feel your pain.
@@navyman8903 that's what I'm saying dude. I'm also an OSHA certified crane operator, where's my holiday and discount at Denny's? It's an outrage! AN OUTRAGE I SAY!
Used FFP for a long time, shot a competition over the weekend with SFP and at over 200 yards I had it at an intermediate magnification and was constantly missing. Only after the first stage I realized why, felt super dumb. I guess it's something like holdovers on hostage targets at close range, you just create a mental image of where you're going to hit and learn over time.
So, wanted to leave you my Swampfox Arrowhead 1-10x IR Mil reticle brief review. Pros: 1. Glass in phenomenal, front glass is made in Japan, and clarity is better than real life. As you go up in magnification, contrast is incredible, and optic shines in performance as you go up in magnification 2. Illumination of the reticle is definitely visible even in bright Arizona Sun (says a lot) 3. Has 2 night vision settings that you cannot see without actual night vision. 4. Optic has .1 mil rad adjustment clicks, so very accurate adjustments 5. Feels very solid and doesn't have "cheap" feel to it at all 6. In between off settings for quick turn off 7. Lens flip up covers Cons: 1. Completely unforgiving eye box, even at 1x magnification it is pretty brutal 2. Magnification at 10x leaves you completely still, or you will have black scope, eye box becomes incredible small, it's brutal. 3. Difference in distance from the scope on your buttstock changes greatly, if you want to avoid looking through black spots of the scope as you zoom in and out. Meaning you might need to be on half way extended buttstock at 1x, then being forced to pull buttstock in to closer ranges just to accommodate the eye box that is now severely depleted. It shifts way more than Swampfox suggests. It probably is closer to 1.5" less during 6x-10x magnifications, compared to 1x. 4. Left to right eye relief is worse than up and down, very finicky when you go slightly back 5. Heavy fisheye at 1x, and it's not true 1x, probably 1.25x-1.5x. It gets less fisheye as you increase magnification. At least what I can tell. Received it yesterday, didn't use it, and will return it today. Amazing glass quality, but functionality is not meant advertised correctly. When I asked Swampfox yesterday how eye box is compared to Primary Arms scopes, gentlemen stated "it is comparable to other lpvos on the market" This was not true...this is a brutal eye box, even at 1x.
I have the 8x, to me it seems more forgiving than what you describe. I stupidly chose the BDR reticle which was, as said, dumb. But I'm impressed with the glass quality, reticle illumination, and turret crispness. But 8x seems too much for 30mm tube, amd I'd guess 10x even more so -- as you suggest.
He is getting smarter every day. Sometimes when I'm editing I have something playing on a tablet. He will back out of the video and scroll youtube then pick something else. I have to video him doing it. It's wild.
I run a gen 1 Vortex PST SFP 4-16x50 on my .308. I've been using it for long enough and am comfortable enough with it that I never felt the need to switch it out. I can see the benefit but it's a new learning curve that I don't really want to embark on.
I'm also not the kind of guy who cares enough about super precision. If I can consistently hit a steel silhouette, I'm happy. If it's inside 200 I use the irons.
Quality content as always, Navyman. Currently quite happy with the Vudu 1-8 SFP on my 16 inch. The eye box is a little tight on 8x, but there isn’t much distortion and fish eye. I know your 34mm rule with >8x and the physics problems with cramming 1-8 and 1-10 into a scope. The logic behind FFP for Mid power and high power magnification makes perfect sense. Thanks again!
My longer range builds FFP all the way. I don’t have to know what my holds are on every magnification level. My SFP is great on my 12.5-16” builds. Dot brightness is usually better on SFP’s (not always) and the rifles I use SFP’s on I’m usually either at 1x or full magnification. For example I have a razor on a 14.5. I know my holds at 6x and if I’m at 1x I’m probably shooting at something 100 yards and in where holds are easy to eyeball. Pros and cons to each. In the end as long as you understand your gear you’ll probably be fine with either.
This is a phenomenal yet simple way of explaining the differences. Dare I say this is THE video people should be referring people to if they have this question. I agree FFP reticles can be subjective, that being said though if the reticle is done right for me (usable through all magnification levels), along with accomplishing a flat image etc, I'll take FFP on an LPVO all day long. I can make SFP work but it's not my choice if I can help it
@BAN0_ And yessir. I genuinely believe the Navy needs to get on the Marines marksmanship level. We also need more CAT 3 shoots to stay on board with yall. We do the Marines a massive disservice by not performing to that level. If we get boarded or attacked or when we're dropping you off from an amphib, we should be able to fight the same. Just my 2 cents. MAs, GMs and a few other rates at least.
Thanks for all the info it's much appreciated, I have no experience with any magnified scopes and you cleared a few things up for me for when I do pick up an LPVO.
Texas LE can use up to 5 power. Something I learned in instructor school, it’s up to 5 power, so you can have a 1-6 just don’t go passed 5 power 😉😉 Lol So I just cleared my house my PA PLXC, Steiner 1-4, and my Kahles k16i. I had to try really hard to get fish eye with my PA, I had to force it 🤜🍆 😂. I’m pretty happy with it. My offer still stands, I’ll ship it out to you to check out. I always enjoy you videos, great work like always. I’ve been meaning to start making videos. I have some cool stuff that people aren’t talking about on YT that might give a niche. I look forward to you next video.
You absolutely need to start a channel and tell me when you do! I trust your assessment more than the paid reviews I've seen so far. Maybe they're not adjusting the diopter or its the cameras. I may pick one up to play with.
I’ll let you know, it’s definitely not as nice as my K16i, but for half the price I’m very happy with it. It sits on my scar17. I recently broke the Scaler works mount, it was the old model that was prone to failure, they replaced quickly with the newest model. It’s not at all daylight bright.
Do you need a ruler in your optic to get the kind of shooting you want done? -> are you willing to learn your reticle, the ballistics of your gun and ammo? and train to it? Yes -> FFP No->SFP
I agree on your stance with ffp vs second on LPVO. Anything more than 1-6x and your handicapping your self. I still say for the money 1-6x sfp scopes are the best bang for your buck that actually work and do their job like they are supposed while being durable. The problem is that a lot of stuff gets super pricey, hits law of diminishing returns or flat out doesn’t work when you get past the 1-6x sfp. It’s a sweet spot for price and practicality. I think at some point the technology that’s relatively advanced on those expensive optics that are ffp and actually DO WORK will become more common place and more affordable. Then the conversation on SFP 1-6x optics will be more debatable on if they are the sweet spot anymore.
SAI is not bad, comparable to the Delta Stryker, feels like a brother to it, however SAI reticle makes me.feel like I did some.acid. it suppose to be quick, but not sure about that. They went too far out in the outfield for that one. Overall scope is nice though
@NAVYMAN8903 you can get use to it, but alot going on and very different. I kind of like commonalities among reticles, all my RDS guns pistols and rifles have single dots and LPVOs I like simplicity due to my application and operational capabilities.
@chaoticcaninejb me too honestly and I hate that I love certain optics more than the older ones I have. Shooting with the VCOG for accuracy testing used to be easy, but now the T6Xi center dot at 6x is precisely what I want. So I'm moving to standardize go to's in each. But it's a process. I think the SAI will be quick and fast to get behind but slow at 6x. The wind holds are solid though. Especially once you get past 400 yards.
@@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd Unfortunately, as with all LPVO's there is trade offs. I will say, at 6x surprisingly, the reticle is my favorite so far, and the glass is solid. The turrets/adjustments are also spot on. I'll go through it here soon. I have the intro already finished, just have to finish editing the review.
The NX8 1-8 has horrible fish eye at 1x, an abusive eyebox that is unworkable outside of perfectly supported shooting, and the glass quality isn't there. Especially for a fighting rifle. It was a nice concept, and it's small/light weight. But honestly it doesn't get it done. As for the 2.5 to 20, I'm not sure how that performs. But the 1-8 is chalked full of limitations and at 1750 is a no go.
@@navyman8903 Gotcha. I had heard the ATACR 1-8 was far better quality compared to the NX8 1-8 but wasn't sure if the short comings also affected the 2.5-20 first focal. The wider range of the 2.5-20 NX8 is appealing over the ATACR 4-16
I know you and I were both disappointed with the Razor 3, but I've continued using it in DMR matches and a few low-light matches. I gotta say that it's grown on me. That said, I still need someone to make a FFP 1-6 with a tree reticle. Doesn't have to be the biggest tree ever. It just needs to be mil-based.
@@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd a simple mil tree would suffice. They could even keep the overall layout of what they currently offer and just add a mil tree instead of the BDC wind holds. Snpl
@@navyman8903 Thank you bro. You convinced me to pick up a Credo 1-8x and I absolutely love it. I know that every LPVO will have some drawbacks, but so far the Credo and the Razor have both been solid for me.
LPVO= 1x on low end to xxxxx ALL LPVOs should be SFP NO LPVO should have greater magnification then 6x! Simple reticle and no dialing of turrets All should have aimpoint bright center dot and no other illumination. Everything else including glass, eye releif, eye box, turrets, etc. That is all based on scope manufacturers quality and quality assurance.
If you're staying 1-6 and below I can get on that train. I do love my 34mm 1-8s though. That is going to be hard for me to let go. And the Credo/T6Xi ain't bad.
I've been thinking of getting a 3-9 for a more DMR/Competition oriented rifle, and this video cleared up some things. I always did wonder why my 1-4 didn't have the issues other LVPOs did, like the fisheye and other things. I also find I like simple reticles over more complex ones, but it's still good to know how FFPs can help if I get something more complex than a Trijicon HX reticle. The Open 92A1 is still the priority, but this info is still great to have for future projects.
@@navyman8903 I looked at the Credo and Accupoint variants already, unabashed Trijicon fanboy that I am. But I have to keep in mind to have it be FFP. Thanks again for the video and the info.
Yessir, very nice summary of plus/minus. Ridgeline's Scoped Carbine course taught some very nice "cheats" that had me NOT missing a tree/horus reticle for wind holds on my SFP mil hash crosshair (Credo 2.5-15x).
Any experience with or know anyone who does the NX8 2.5-20 ? The magnification range seems like it would be awesome for my MR762 . I know you said the NX8 suck but I was thinking you were just talking about the LPVO so just wanted to see your response.
I really appreciate your videos - keep up the great work. I’m starting to think that if your eyes can handle it - something like a EXPS3-4 with the 5x magnifier is very close to the long distance performance of most 1-6 or 1-8 LPVOs with BDCs. I love magnification (2x per 100 meters preferred) and find that the difference between 5x and 8x just isn’t enough to make me want to give up the close in speed of the Eotech. Am I alone here?
Not at all, the only downside is not having an etched reticle. And lower weight. An lpvo and an offset red dot will accomplish this task for you as well. But 1-6 is plenty for most people anyway, who really needs the 8x
It's presently sanctioned by the Biden administration because the creator is of Russian origin. It was one dude, it's not like he's the government himself. So if you have it, you're good. If you don't, then you can't download it.
What do you think of Swampfox Arrowhead LPVOs? Ironically I purchased lpvo yesterday by them, and should tell what I think too when I get it. Would love to hear what you think. Funny how your video came out today too. I spoke to Swampfox development person and he sold me on IR Mil type of reticle Arrowhead in 1-10x It is SFP, but it works for my eyes. I rock Vortex Crossfire 2 SFP 6-24x50 Reticle never disappears, and it feels natural even at night. Arrowhead's front glass is made in Japan, but scope is madr in China, so is Vortex though I still have new Primary Arms Gen 4 LPVO in 1-6x Nova reticle. It had amazing reviews, but it is only 1-6x I want to ding steel at further distance like 200+ yards. And 6x is about as comfortable at 6x it gets for my precision. Hitting steel in general is doable beyond that for me, but I like accurate shots. I haven't canceled Primary Arms scope yet, as I examine Arrowhead. I watched countless videos from CDoes and Focustripp, and another great channel I forgot. 1-6 seems limited in longer ranges. I just know 6x well, as my range finder is 6x, and target at 200 is about 3/4" on the glass (visually) I can hit that for sure, but comfort is less. 300 yards will be probably quarter inch visually. I am spoiled by 24x scope, but I love that scope. My eyes relax, and it's a cross hair type of reticle, so it pulls your eyes into the center point for quick precision. Even in 93% desert darkness, right before you can't even see the steel target silloute at 192 yards. At 24x zoom you can still see body of target even when eyes can't see it. I am completely new to lpvos, and the only red dot that works wonderful for me with astigmatism is Holosun HS510C I have 3 of them, but hitting anything past 100 yards with that 2 moa dot is pretty painful 😄 Most reviewers rarely talk about the fact that red dots get very unproductive at 100 yards and beyond. 2 moa dot fills about 20% (visually) of 10" metal target. Precision with red dot is definitely not the name of the game. Arrowhead center dot on that LPVO is 0.5 MOA That's a huge ticket to getting target hit where you need, besides of zooms Some lpvos have 1 moa or bigger dots. That is still bad for precision.
I've only messed with a swampfox 1-8 in the past, and briefly. But you're going into waters I haven't been in yet. It's not a company I'm interested in personally but so long as they make a reliable unit that you like, I think you'll be well served. Keep me updated on what you think of them if you don't mind. It might help others looking at them as well.
@@navyman8903 I will DEFINITELY get back to you with my observations of the Arrowhead 1-10x. Was there something that you didn't like about Arrowhead 1-8? Is there something that makes you apprehensive to the company as a whole or some singular experience to an optic? I was apprehensive to the company after I purchased RMR from Amazon, and shake awake was broken, optic would not turn off. I reached out to the company, and it was 2020, so phones were off the hook and it was just going to voicemail. I returned it back. Because I thought it was true Chinesium customer service. But, yesterday I spoke to development at Swampfox and realized it was just crazy times during the pandemic, and I spoke to John in development yesterday. He was burning with passion and excitement, he broke down every single technical question I asked. Even the ones that were incredibly technical and detailed. He also stated Workhorse optic coming out will be in the class of its' own, and will use new illumination technology. Customer service was very good, and I realized that pandemic Special Forces detachment Alpha (literal A-Team) used Arrowhead 1-10 in Afghanistan in January 2020, to be exact they were deployed with them. Before that date they have used the optic on Scar 17 with great results, and then they deployed with them in January 2020. Mike offered the scopes to them for free for testing, and they like them so much they put their faith in them on the battlefield. Workhorse 1-6 and 1-8 will be their new model, and it will be in FFP specifically. You are great reviewer, and I know Swampfox will likely send out an optic for you to review if you ask. I would reach out to Mike at Swampfox (by email and phone). He is the face of Swampfox. He posts on AR15 d.o.t. com a lot, and has a ton of videos starring him on Swampfox UA-cam channel. If you want full video
For the bros like me, who have astigmatism the answer is not so clear. I see Eotech circle as a static mixture of perpendicular sticks and broken lines to actual circle, and circle looks like it has been erased like a pencil proportionally across the optic. It's quite fascinating. On Vortex Diamondback long range scope...the crosshair disappears at some magnifications. SFP is the best for my eyes, but Crimson Trace LPVO 1-4 in FFP worked just fine for me though
Do you wear glasses? I was just diagnosed with that crap also and I don’t see the EOTech reticle that badly, However I see the primary arms prisms perfectly.
I like my gen 2 NX8 with the FC-DMx reticle. Dont care too much about the lack of usability at 1x, I put a dot at 12oclock for 1x. The size and weight + reticle fit the bill for a general purpose build. Just my opinion though
It's size/weight efficient. I think the brand name and price made me expect better performance out of it. If it was a Primary Arms or Vortex, sure. But a $1750 NF.....idk man. But I get it. I also think the DMC reticle is a massive improvement.
@@navyman8903 got mine “like new” from Eurooptic for $1500 otherwise I’d agree. It’s about the same price as MSRP for a new Gen II Razor 1-6. Although a used Razor on the street market is about $1K.
My astigmatism calms down after a couple weeks of running my phone and tablet with the brown screen filter thing. But I could be crazy and I think I am. Pst viper fow life! Lol
I would probably go with a 3-15 or 4-16 for that personally, depending on what you're building. If it's a precision build....then that. If it's a fighting rifle then probably something else.
Great video, I’ll be looking forward to hear your opinion on the SAI and Delta Stryker. Also I totally agree with running a 34mm tube for a 1-8 and that’s why I opted for a ATACR on my 14.5.
@@navyman8903 I have the new FC-DMX reticle, it definitely fixes the short comings of the older reticle. The magnification lever is a little stiff like everyone else says but it’s still workable also running a piggy back T2 so I just leave the ATACR on 4x and power up the magnification when I need it. I think there is just the slightest bit of fish eye at one 1x but you have to be looking for it, that is unacceptable for its price but again you have to be looking for it. Those are my only two gripes about this scope and the rest are positive in my book, this is my first Night Force product and now I understand Night Force master race. I maybe biased because I paid out of pocket for this monster but I love it, I think the juice is worth the squeeze if you understand it’s trade off’s. I was on the fence between an VCOG SCO 1-8 or the ATACR 1-8 and I’m glad I went with the ATACR.
I bought a credo 1-6 hx and the fisheye was really bad. I also couldn't get it to focus correctly no matter what i did to the diopter. Said screw it and sent it back and got an exps 2-0
That's weird. Maybe it was out of spec? I've used a few and they haven't had it, but that's not to say you didn't get a lemon or have that experience. It's concerning because I recommend that optic a lot.
@NAVYMAN8903 I was like dude there's no way I almost spent a grand on this thing and I had a primary arms slx that was a lot better. I was gonna contact their customer service but I was too put off and said screw it.
@@navyman8903 I actually have one on a 16" geissele and really like it. My favorite though is that optic on a LMT specwar or a Geissele SD 14.5. It's real tough to decide which of those rifles is better with that 1-8 tbh,,,
T5xi will be my 1st dive into the LPVO world. I know (believe anyway) it’s limitations so I’m treating it as a red dot with built in magnification for urban environments.
@@navyman8903 I’m using the tango6t with their crosshairs not the horseshoe and it’s perfect for me. I agree with your points tho anything above 1-6 should be FFP. Mission drives the gear
I will have a slightly more nuanced take. But we'll see. We can't afford to have his case become case law, but there are already cases in the books supporting why he was guilty. I definitely don't believe the way to win things is by poking the bear. So I agree with Cokeman there for sure. I'm still flushing out my notes on it. We'll see.
My eyes suck so bad I personally do 50 yards per magnification. 4x=200 yards for me lol. I totally agree anything more than 1-6x in sfp is terrible. I think guys go sfp for a 5-25 because they can't afford the ffp offering😂. Great vid. Every scope aside from my 1-6x is ffp....1-8x, 4-14x, 4-16x, 5-25x all FFP. GREAT video as always. Thank you
I'm going to be trying a fixed 4 power scope that really should be called mini or something. Smallest fixed 4x actual scope I've seen.. really can't wait, my rifle is too accurate to be running a red dot. My under assembly rifle with get a lpvo with piggyback red dot.
I had a cheap feyachi red dot on my sons really nice rifle I assembled just for him. Used feyachi just to see if he liked red dot sites. Now I'm getting him an EOTECH with magnifier combo. Though I wished he'd like a variable power scope being his rifle is also very accurate. But he wants the fast boys stuff so be it.
Any scope that's low end is greater then 1x, say a 2-10, 3-18, etc, that's NOT and LPVO ans should always be FFP! I have the NF 2-10x24 one of my MK12s and other then clone correct the scope blows! Hate it.
I was afraid that would be the case. Let me scratch that off the list. I was on the fence anyway, but a few guys at work are cloners/love theirs. But I should have known better because they've made stupid recommendations in the past...
I prefer a step up from the strike eagle. But I myself started with a Gen 1 PST 1-4 before diving into all of the optics I have now. So it's good to prove the concept and then figure out what you like/don't like. That way when you buy something down the line, you can make an experience based decision.
Love these discussions. Much like 45vs 9mm, .308vs 6.5, AKvsAR, there’s always give and take. For me, any LPVO less than 8x, I prefer SFP especially if they’re budget chinesium optic (with these exception of the Primary Arms 1-10 SFP griffin mil on my AR10 in .308 cuz I can make it work as a battle rifle optic.) I like my FFP scopes as “medium or high” powered magnification 2-10, 3-12, 4-14, 5-25 etc. and usually have to spend more $$$ for better performance. Resist the urge to cheap out on FFP, it’s usually better to save up for quality on FFP
@@navyman8903 that’s the only exception I’ve made on a 308 battle semiauto rifle… most of my engagements are up to 200 yards and I like the SFP reticle. 300 yards aim for the head and you’ll hit center mass. Any shots beyond 350 and I’m usually on a stable position at 10x magnification and I’m using the reticle holdovers. I had a 4-16x FFP scope that work well for longer ranges but it was a pain to use 50 yards and in. This is a very specific purpose/application and I would typically wouldn’t recommend a 1-10x SFP for 90% of Casual shooters out there.
Good video. I've never liked LPVOs. FFP vs SFP issues, poor 1x compared to red dot or EOTech, bizarre reticle options, etc. I rarely have the opportunity to shoot out very far anyway, so I've stuck with EOTechs/dots with magnifiers on my stuff. If I was going to set up a rifle primarily for 200+ yards, I'd almost certainly get an ACOG with a piggybacked or offset dot. ACOGs have their own issues, but they're issues I'm willing to deal with. I really like the crosshair reticle Trijicon offers. Very intuitive for me. Always good to see the cats, btw.
@12monkey57 I love it. I have a review on it. You can get the new T6Xi 2.5-15 with the SCR2 with windholds, or you can grab a Night Force ATACR 4-16×44 F1. Those are the two I would recommend for serious hard use. Spendy, but buy once cry once and be able to actually see what you're shooting at.
This is me. FFP is dominate if it has a daylight illumination when it’s 1x . Have not found it . P4xi is only thing I run in second focal. Am I confused or just wasted too much money and not enough of real target time?
This video is by multiple requests, it's a basic video......but the checks are still running and there might be ads? Maybe?
Always go back to basics before heading further. I still find myself going back to simpler things.
Well considering I'm 2 days into creating a detailed Excel spreadsheet debating on what lpvo to get this video is extremely appreciated
@AlexS-zr2nb you sound like you deliberate like I do, but with a spreadsheet.
@NAVYMAN8903 it's why I like your channel so much I understand your thought process and appreciate it. Plus the humor and cat cameos are funny as hell. Also this will be my first optic purchase so I need to make up for lack of experience with raw data
@Alex S what kind of budget are you looking at? Purpose? Would you be comfortable sharing that spreadsheet?
Excellent explanation of 1st and 2nd focal planes. Maybe I am just dumb as hell, but the way you explained it was great to me!
Glad to hear I could help, and I'm just a caveman trying to understand this world.
I have a chinesium 1-6, the acss nova from primary arms. It's really not a bad optic at all. Basically an improved viper pst gen 2 for $340. That said I'm saving my money for a NF nx8 or an atacr. The fact that nf doesn't offer a discount for those of us who are forklift certified is a travesty of justice.
But, having your forklift certification is huge, and they couldn't ship the optics without you....so they should. But the ATACR is going on 1 or 2 of my builds, so I feel your pain.
@@navyman8903 that's what I'm saying dude. I'm also an OSHA certified crane operator, where's my holiday and discount at Denny's? It's an outrage! AN OUTRAGE I SAY!
@@beardly0121bro you’re comment has me dying of laughter 🤣🤣😭 👍🏻
Used FFP for a long time, shot a competition over the weekend with SFP and at over 200 yards I had it at an intermediate magnification and was constantly missing. Only after the first stage I realized why, felt super dumb. I guess it's something like holdovers on hostage targets at close range, you just create a mental image of where you're going to hit and learn over time.
So, wanted to leave you my Swampfox Arrowhead 1-10x IR Mil reticle brief review.
Pros:
1. Glass in phenomenal, front glass is made in Japan, and clarity is better than real life. As you go up in magnification, contrast is incredible, and optic shines in performance as you go up in magnification
2. Illumination of the reticle is definitely visible even in bright Arizona Sun (says a lot)
3. Has 2 night vision settings that you cannot see without actual night vision.
4. Optic has .1 mil rad adjustment clicks, so very accurate adjustments
5. Feels very solid and doesn't have "cheap" feel to it at all
6. In between off settings for quick turn off
7. Lens flip up covers
Cons:
1. Completely unforgiving eye box, even at 1x magnification it is pretty brutal
2. Magnification at 10x leaves you completely still, or you will have black scope, eye box becomes incredible small, it's brutal.
3. Difference in distance from the scope on your buttstock changes greatly, if you want to avoid looking through black spots of the scope as you zoom in and out. Meaning you might need to be on half way extended buttstock at 1x, then being forced to pull buttstock in to closer ranges just to accommodate the eye box that is now severely depleted. It shifts way more than Swampfox suggests. It probably is closer to 1.5" less during 6x-10x magnifications, compared to 1x.
4. Left to right eye relief is worse than up and down, very finicky when you go slightly back
5. Heavy fisheye at 1x, and it's not true 1x, probably 1.25x-1.5x. It gets less fisheye as you increase magnification. At least what I can tell.
Received it yesterday, didn't use it, and will return it today.
Amazing glass quality, but functionality is not meant advertised correctly.
When I asked Swampfox yesterday how eye box is compared to Primary Arms scopes, gentlemen stated "it is comparable to other lpvos on the market"
This was not true...this is a brutal eye box, even at 1x.
I have the 8x, to me it seems more forgiving than what you describe. I stupidly chose the BDR reticle which was, as said, dumb. But I'm impressed with the glass quality, reticle illumination, and turret crispness. But 8x seems too much for 30mm tube, amd I'd guess 10x even more so -- as you suggest.
The cat seems to know where the camera is pointing.
He is getting smarter every day. Sometimes when I'm editing I have something playing on a tablet. He will back out of the video and scroll youtube then pick something else. I have to video him doing it. It's wild.
I run a gen 1 Vortex PST SFP 4-16x50 on my .308. I've been using it for long enough and am comfortable enough with it that I never felt the need to switch it out.
I can see the benefit but it's a new learning curve that I don't really want to embark on.
I'm also not the kind of guy who cares enough about super precision. If I can consistently hit a steel silhouette, I'm happy. If it's inside 200 I use the irons.
Quality content as always, Navyman. Currently quite happy with the Vudu 1-8 SFP on my 16 inch. The eye box is a little tight on 8x, but there isn’t much distortion and fish eye. I know your 34mm rule with >8x and the physics problems with cramming 1-8 and 1-10 into a scope. The logic behind FFP for Mid power and high power magnification makes perfect sense. Thanks again!
All my LPVO's will be sfp. My first LPVO was a primary arms 1-6 ffp and I absolutely hated it.
Yeah it's definitely a preference game.
The SIG Tango6T FFP appears to have daylight bright (but not Aimpoint blooming) illumination .... although the illuminated horeshoe is freaking huge.
Yeah there's always trade-offs it seems.
My longer range builds FFP all the way. I don’t have to know what my holds are on every magnification level. My SFP is great on my 12.5-16” builds. Dot brightness is usually better on SFP’s (not always) and the rifles I use SFP’s on I’m usually either at 1x or full magnification. For example I have a razor on a 14.5. I know my holds at 6x and if I’m at 1x I’m probably shooting at something 100 yards and in where holds are easy to eyeball. Pros and cons to each. In the end as long as you understand your gear you’ll probably be fine with either.
Wrote this before 4:45
Took the words out of my mouth
This is a phenomenal yet simple way of explaining the differences. Dare I say this is THE video people should be referring people to if they have this question.
I agree FFP reticles can be subjective, that being said though if the reticle is done right for me (usable through all magnification levels), along with accomplishing a flat image etc, I'll take FFP on an LPVO all day long. I can make SFP work but it's not my choice if I can help it
Also, I've never taken a 4x to 800yds, but I have at 700 😉
Thank you brother, that means a lot. I genuinely appreciate it.
@BAN0_ And yessir. I genuinely believe the Navy needs to get on the Marines marksmanship level. We also need more CAT 3 shoots to stay on board with yall. We do the Marines a massive disservice by not performing to that level. If we get boarded or attacked or when we're dropping you off from an amphib, we should be able to fight the same. Just my 2 cents. MAs, GMs and a few other rates at least.
Thanks for all the info it's much appreciated, I have no experience with any magnified scopes and you cleared a few things up for me for when I do pick up an LPVO.
Thanks for watching and happy I could help.
Texas LE can use up to 5 power. Something I learned in instructor school, it’s up to 5 power, so you can have a 1-6 just don’t go passed 5 power 😉😉
Lol So I just cleared my house my PA PLXC, Steiner 1-4, and my Kahles k16i. I had to try really hard to get fish eye with my PA, I had to force it 🤜🍆 😂. I’m pretty happy with it. My offer still stands, I’ll ship it out to you to check out. I always enjoy you videos, great work like always. I’ve been meaning to start making videos. I have some cool stuff that people aren’t talking about on YT that might give a niche. I look forward to you next video.
You absolutely need to start a channel and tell me when you do! I trust your assessment more than the paid reviews I've seen so far. Maybe they're not adjusting the diopter or its the cameras. I may pick one up to play with.
I’ll let you know, it’s definitely not as nice as my K16i, but for half the price I’m very happy with it. It sits on my scar17. I recently broke the Scaler works mount, it was the old model that was prone to failure, they replaced quickly with the newest model. It’s not at all daylight bright.
Do you need a ruler in your optic to get the kind of shooting you want done? -> are you willing to learn your reticle, the ballistics of your gun and ammo? and train to it? Yes -> FFP No->SFP
I agree on your stance with ffp vs second on LPVO.
Anything more than 1-6x and your handicapping your self. I still say for the money 1-6x sfp scopes are the best bang for your buck that actually work and do their job like they are supposed while being durable. The problem is that a lot of stuff gets super pricey, hits law of diminishing returns or flat out doesn’t work when you get past the 1-6x sfp.
It’s a sweet spot for price and practicality. I think at some point the technology that’s relatively advanced on those expensive optics that are ffp and actually DO WORK will become more common place and more affordable. Then the conversation on SFP 1-6x optics will be more debatable on if they are the sweet spot anymore.
Great vid, thank you!
Happy to help, thanks for watching.
SAI is not bad, comparable to the Delta Stryker, feels like a brother to it, however SAI reticle makes me.feel like I did some.acid. it suppose to be quick, but not sure about that. They went too far out in the outfield for that one. Overall scope is nice though
My buddy had one but sold it before I got a chance to get behind it. C_DOES loves his. But I'm also not sure about the reticle.
@NAVYMAN8903 you can get use to it, but alot going on and very different. I kind of like commonalities among reticles, all my RDS guns pistols and rifles have single dots and LPVOs I like simplicity due to my application and operational capabilities.
@chaoticcaninejb me too honestly and I hate that I love certain optics more than the older ones I have. Shooting with the VCOG for accuracy testing used to be easy, but now the T6Xi center dot at 6x is precisely what I want. So I'm moving to standardize go to's in each. But it's a process. I think the SAI will be quick and fast to get behind but slow at 6x. The wind holds are solid though. Especially once you get past 400 yards.
@Christopher Goydich If your asking me, no, I don't like any LPVO 1-6 in a FFP, none. SFP we can talk
@@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd Unfortunately, as with all LPVO's there is trade offs. I will say, at 6x surprisingly, the reticle is my favorite so far, and the glass is solid. The turrets/adjustments are also spot on. I'll go through it here soon. I have the intro already finished, just have to finish editing the review.
I'm just here for the cat.
Hopefully he didn't disappoint.
@@navyman8903 10/10, would recommend
NAVYMAN OH YA NAVYMAN BASED NAVYMAN
Can you explain upon why you hate the NF NX8? I have the ATACR 1-8 but was also considering a NX8 2.5-20 for a future SPR build
The NX8 1-8 has horrible fish eye at 1x, an abusive eyebox that is unworkable outside of perfectly supported shooting, and the glass quality isn't there. Especially for a fighting rifle. It was a nice concept, and it's small/light weight. But honestly it doesn't get it done. As for the 2.5 to 20, I'm not sure how that performs. But the 1-8 is chalked full of limitations and at 1750 is a no go.
@@navyman8903 Gotcha. I had heard the ATACR 1-8 was far better quality compared to the NX8 1-8 but wasn't sure if the short comings also affected the 2.5-20 first focal. The wider range of the 2.5-20 NX8 is appealing over the ATACR 4-16
@JustJoshuaPelletier always go ATACR whenever possible from NF. I know they're spendy. I'm buying a few myself. But we'll worth the price.
Thank you for the clarification bro!!!!!
I know you and I were both disappointed with the Razor 3, but I've continued using it in DMR matches and a few low-light matches. I gotta say that it's grown on me. That said, I still need someone to make a FFP 1-6 with a tree reticle. Doesn't have to be the biggest tree ever. It just needs to be mil-based.
Bully SAI with me to get different reticles. They’ve told me they plan to and that was a year ago
The leupold mk6 had this
@@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd yes. That’s why I’m leading the bullying campaign to get them to produce what you’ve just outlined
@@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd a simple mil tree would suffice. They could even keep the overall layout of what they currently offer and just add a mil tree instead of the BDC wind holds. Snpl
For me for long range precision FFP all the way. For everything else SFP is just fine. I love my Razor 1-6x. Does everything I need it to do.
And that's also a solid practice.
@@navyman8903 Thank you bro. You convinced me to pick up a Credo 1-8x and I absolutely love it. I know that every LPVO will have some drawbacks, but so far the Credo and the Razor have both been solid for me.
I am just a cave man, Your world frightens and confuses me
LPVO= 1x on low end to xxxxx
ALL LPVOs should be SFP
NO LPVO should have greater magnification then 6x!
Simple reticle and no dialing of turrets
All should have aimpoint bright center dot and no other illumination.
Everything else including glass, eye releif, eye box, turrets, etc. That is all based on scope manufacturers quality and quality assurance.
If you're staying 1-6 and below I can get on that train. I do love my 34mm 1-8s though. That is going to be hard for me to let go. And the Credo/T6Xi ain't bad.
I've been thinking of getting a 3-9 for a more DMR/Competition oriented rifle, and this video cleared up some things. I always did wonder why my 1-4 didn't have the issues other LVPOs did, like the fisheye and other things. I also find I like simple reticles over more complex ones, but it's still good to know how FFPs can help if I get something more complex than a Trijicon HX reticle.
The Open 92A1 is still the priority, but this info is still great to have for future projects.
I would definitely recommend at least a 2-10 Credo, the 2.5-10 Vortex PST Gen 2 or a 3-15 or 4-16 for a DMR. Something with FFP.
@@navyman8903 I looked at the Credo and Accupoint variants already, unabashed Trijicon fanboy that I am. But I have to keep in mind to have it be FFP. Thanks again for the video and the info.
@@aggrodkreg4321 then I would go Credo 1-8 or the 2-10.
Yessir, very nice summary of plus/minus.
Ridgeline's Scoped Carbine course taught some very nice "cheats" that had me NOT missing a tree/horus reticle for wind holds on my SFP mil hash crosshair (Credo 2.5-15x).
Hello there. Great explanation and entertaining as always.
Any experience with or know anyone who does the NX8 2.5-20 ? The magnification range seems like it would be awesome for my MR762 . I know you said the NX8 suck but I was thinking you were just talking about the LPVO so just wanted to see your response.
I don't have any experience with it or know anyone with one, unfortunately.
Ok thanks
I really appreciate your videos - keep up the great work. I’m starting to think that if your eyes can handle it - something like a EXPS3-4 with the 5x magnifier is very close to the long distance performance of most 1-6 or 1-8 LPVOs with BDCs. I love magnification (2x per 100 meters preferred) and find that the difference between 5x and 8x just isn’t enough to make me want to give up the close in speed of the Eotech. Am I alone here?
Not at all, the only downside is not having an etched reticle. And lower weight. An lpvo and an offset red dot will accomplish this task for you as well. But 1-6 is plenty for most people anyway, who really needs the 8x
But for up close eotech is king
What happened with Strelok Pro? I still have it on my phone and it looks like it still works…
It's presently sanctioned by the Biden administration because the creator is of Russian origin. It was one dude, it's not like he's the government himself. So if you have it, you're good. If you don't, then you can't download it.
It would also be wise to copy the app into storage and onto a computer just incase your phone dies like mine did. I lost ATAK too.
That sucks! I wondered why the reticles weren’t updated. 😢
What do you think of Swampfox Arrowhead LPVOs?
Ironically I purchased lpvo yesterday by them, and should tell what I think too when I get it.
Would love to hear what you think. Funny how your video came out today too.
I spoke to Swampfox development person and he sold me on IR Mil type of reticle Arrowhead in 1-10x
It is SFP, but it works for my eyes.
I rock Vortex Crossfire 2 SFP 6-24x50
Reticle never disappears, and it feels natural even at night.
Arrowhead's front glass is made in Japan, but scope is madr in China, so is Vortex though
I still have new Primary Arms Gen 4 LPVO in 1-6x Nova reticle. It had amazing reviews, but it is only 1-6x
I want to ding steel at further distance like 200+ yards. And 6x is about as comfortable at 6x it gets for my precision. Hitting steel in general is doable beyond that for me, but I like accurate shots.
I haven't canceled Primary Arms scope yet, as I examine Arrowhead.
I watched countless videos from CDoes and Focustripp, and another great channel I forgot.
1-6 seems limited in longer ranges. I just know 6x well, as my range finder is 6x, and target at 200 is about 3/4" on the glass (visually)
I can hit that for sure, but comfort is less.
300 yards will be probably quarter inch visually.
I am spoiled by 24x scope, but I love that scope. My eyes relax, and it's a cross hair type of reticle, so it pulls your eyes into the center point for quick precision. Even in 93% desert darkness, right before you can't even see the steel target silloute at 192 yards.
At 24x zoom you can still see body of target even when eyes can't see it.
I am completely new to lpvos, and the only red dot that works wonderful for me with astigmatism is Holosun HS510C
I have 3 of them, but hitting anything past 100 yards with that 2 moa dot is pretty painful 😄
Most reviewers rarely talk about the fact that red dots get very unproductive at 100 yards and beyond.
2 moa dot fills about 20% (visually) of 10" metal target. Precision with red dot is definitely not the name of the game.
Arrowhead center dot on that LPVO is 0.5 MOA
That's a huge ticket to getting target hit where you need, besides of zooms
Some lpvos have 1 moa or bigger dots. That is still bad for precision.
I've only messed with a swampfox 1-8 in the past, and briefly. But you're going into waters I haven't been in yet. It's not a company I'm interested in personally but so long as they make a reliable unit that you like, I think you'll be well served. Keep me updated on what you think of them if you don't mind. It might help others looking at them as well.
@@navyman8903 I will DEFINITELY get back to you with my observations of the Arrowhead 1-10x.
Was there something that you didn't like about Arrowhead 1-8?
Is there something that makes you apprehensive to the company as a whole or some singular experience to an optic?
I was apprehensive to the company after I purchased RMR from Amazon, and shake awake was broken, optic would not turn off. I reached out to the company, and it was 2020, so phones were off the hook and it was just going to voicemail. I returned it back. Because I thought it was true Chinesium customer service. But, yesterday I spoke to development at Swampfox and realized it was just crazy times during the pandemic, and I spoke to John in development yesterday. He was burning with passion and excitement, he broke down every single technical question I asked. Even the ones that were incredibly technical and detailed. He also stated Workhorse optic coming out will be in the class of its' own, and will use new illumination technology. Customer service was very good, and I realized that pandemic
Special Forces detachment Alpha (literal A-Team) used Arrowhead 1-10 in Afghanistan in January 2020, to be exact they were deployed with them. Before that date they have used the optic on Scar 17 with great results, and then they deployed with them in January 2020. Mike offered the scopes to them for free for testing, and they like them so much they put their faith in them on the battlefield.
Workhorse 1-6 and 1-8 will be their new model, and it will be in FFP specifically.
You are great reviewer, and I know Swampfox will likely send out an optic for you to review if you ask. I would reach out to Mike at Swampfox (by email and phone). He is the face of Swampfox. He posts on AR15 d.o.t. com a lot, and has a ton of videos starring him on Swampfox UA-cam channel.
If you want full video
For the bros like me, who have astigmatism the answer is not so clear.
I see Eotech circle as a static mixture of perpendicular sticks and broken lines to actual circle, and circle looks like it has been erased like a pencil proportionally across the optic.
It's quite fascinating.
On Vortex Diamondback long range scope...the crosshair disappears at some magnifications.
SFP is the best for my eyes, but Crimson Trace LPVO 1-4 in FFP worked just fine for me though
Do you wear glasses? I was just diagnosed with that crap also and I don’t see the EOTech reticle that badly, However I see the primary arms prisms perfectly.
Nods > suppressors
NODS + Suppressors
I like my gen 2 NX8 with the FC-DMx reticle. Dont care too much about the lack of usability at 1x, I put a dot at 12oclock for 1x. The size and weight + reticle fit the bill for a general purpose build. Just my opinion though
It's size/weight efficient. I think the brand name and price made me expect better performance out of it. If it was a Primary Arms or Vortex, sure. But a $1750 NF.....idk man. But I get it. I also think the DMC reticle is a massive improvement.
@@navyman8903 got mine “like new” from Eurooptic for $1500 otherwise I’d agree. It’s about the same price as MSRP for a new Gen II Razor 1-6. Although a used Razor on the street market is about $1K.
My astigmatism calms down after a couple weeks of running my phone and tablet with the brown screen filter thing. But I could be crazy and I think I am. Pst viper fow life! Lol
Great video, long time follower. Torn between the the new nx8 1-8with DMX reticle or the credo 1-8
I would absolutely get the Credo over the NX8. Much heavier with no wind holds, but a much better performing optic vs the NX8.
Do you have any scope recs for a potential 20" build?
I would probably go with a 3-15 or 4-16 for that personally, depending on what you're building. If it's a precision build....then that. If it's a fighting rifle then probably something else.
@@navyman8903 looking in a fighting direction with this.
@@ry3713 I would stick with a 1-6 then. Keep it lighter.
@@navyman8903 Much appreciated sir.
Ffp is the only way, fight me
Great video, I’ll be looking forward to hear your opinion on the SAI and Delta Stryker.
Also I totally agree with running a 34mm tube for a 1-8 and that’s why I opted for a ATACR on my 14.5.
How are you liking your ATACR?
@@navyman8903 I have the new FC-DMX reticle, it definitely fixes the short comings of the older reticle.
The magnification lever is a little stiff like everyone else says but it’s still workable also running a piggy back T2 so I just leave the ATACR on 4x and power up the magnification when I need it.
I think there is just the slightest bit of fish eye at one 1x but you have to be looking for it, that is unacceptable for its price but again you have to be looking for it.
Those are my only two gripes about this scope and the rest are positive in my book, this is my first Night Force product and now I understand Night Force master race. I maybe biased because I paid out of pocket for this monster but I love it, I think the juice is worth the squeeze if you understand it’s trade off’s. I was on the fence between an VCOG SCO 1-8 or the ATACR 1-8 and I’m glad I went with the ATACR.
I bought a credo 1-6 hx and the fisheye was really bad. I also couldn't get it to focus correctly no matter what i did to the diopter. Said screw it and sent it back and got an exps 2-0
That's weird. Maybe it was out of spec? I've used a few and they haven't had it, but that's not to say you didn't get a lemon or have that experience. It's concerning because I recommend that optic a lot.
@NAVYMAN8903 I was like dude there's no way I almost spent a grand on this thing and I had a primary arms slx that was a lot better. I was gonna contact their customer service but I was too put off and said screw it.
Schmidt and Bender Short Dot Dual CC. It's both ffp and sfp 😉
The one 1-8 to rule them all.
NF Atacr 1-8 w/ FC-DMX is the shit. Consistently impressed with mine at distance
I need to get 1 and honestly I'm probably getting 2. 1 for my CR556 black build and 1 for a 16" Geissele.
@@navyman8903 I actually have one on a 16" geissele and really like it. My favorite though is that optic on a LMT specwar or a Geissele SD 14.5. It's real tough to decide which of those rifles is better with that 1-8 tbh,,,
What mount is this on your lpvo?
Which rifle?
I believe it’s the 11.5. Black with mlok hand gaurd with fde wpl and Steiner optic. Subject shown during chapter 2, SFP pros.
@mikeTyson329 that would be the Scalarworks LEAP.
Thank you, looks tough, like a tank.
T5xi will be my 1st dive into the LPVO world. I know (believe anyway) it’s limitations so I’m treating it as a red dot with built in magnification for urban environments.
You picked a great starting point.
You gotta take a look at the PA PLx Compact (Probably mills or 5.56 bdc) it's going for 1k.
Yeah I feel FFP is too much of an upside. I’m still gonna try to make the Vortex 1-10 work
👍🏻✝️
Hey, brother
What's the name of your mlok rail covers?
They're the BCM covers you get in a pack of 5. Just type in BCM mlok rail covers. They should pop up.
@@navyman8903 thank you
For what I do SFP is enough with crosshairs. FFP too much and the information overload is unnecessary. 34 tubes should be the norm imo
Sometimes the FFP reticles can get bonkers. But there are some Primary Arms SPF reticles that are info overload also.
@@navyman8903 I’m using the tango6t with their crosshairs not the horseshoe and it’s perfect for me. I agree with your points tho anything above 1-6 should be FFP. Mission drives the gear
Do you also condemn crs like coke has?
I will have a slightly more nuanced take. But we'll see. We can't afford to have his case become case law, but there are already cases in the books supporting why he was guilty. I definitely don't believe the way to win things is by poking the bear. So I agree with Cokeman there for sure. I'm still flushing out my notes on it. We'll see.
@@navyman8903 fudd
My eyes suck so bad I personally do 50 yards per magnification. 4x=200 yards for me lol. I totally agree anything more than 1-6x in sfp is terrible. I think guys go sfp for a 5-25 because they can't afford the ffp offering😂. Great vid. Every scope aside from my 1-6x is ffp....1-8x, 4-14x, 4-16x, 5-25x all FFP. GREAT video as always. Thank you
I really do love FFP. It makes everything so much easier.
I'm going to be trying a fixed 4 power scope that really should be called mini or something. Smallest fixed 4x actual scope I've seen.. really can't wait, my rifle is too accurate to be running a red dot. My under assembly rifle with get a lpvo with piggyback red dot.
Let me know what it is, and how it works out if you don't mind.
I had a cheap feyachi red dot on my sons really nice rifle I assembled just for him. Used feyachi just to see if he liked red dot sites. Now I'm getting him an EOTECH with magnifier combo. Though I wished he'd like a variable power scope being his rifle is also very accurate. But he wants the fast boys stuff so be it.
Any scope that's low end is greater then 1x, say a 2-10, 3-18, etc, that's NOT and LPVO ans should always be FFP!
I have the NF 2-10x24 one of my MK12s and other then clone correct the scope blows! Hate it.
I was afraid that would be the case. Let me scratch that off the list. I was on the fence anyway, but a few guys at work are cloners/love theirs. But I should have known better because they've made stupid recommendations in the past...
@NAVYMAN8903
Trying to be nice, but it isn't great
i also have a black cat whos watching this vid with me
They're going to link up and start plotting.
I have a couple black cats but only one is watching. Conspiracy?
I have been primarily using red dots, i decided to try a scope and bought a vortex strike eagle 1-6. whats your take on that optic?
Great product. I like Vortex glass.
You will be happy with it. It's a great 'jack of all trades' choice.
I prefer a step up from the strike eagle. But I myself started with a Gen 1 PST 1-4 before diving into all of the optics I have now. So it's good to prove the concept and then figure out what you like/don't like. That way when you buy something down the line, you can make an experience based decision.
Love these discussions. Much like 45vs 9mm, .308vs 6.5, AKvsAR, there’s always give and take. For me, any LPVO less than 8x, I prefer SFP especially if they’re budget chinesium optic (with these exception of the Primary Arms 1-10 SFP griffin mil on my AR10 in .308 cuz I can make it work as a battle rifle optic.) I like my FFP scopes as “medium or high” powered magnification 2-10, 3-12, 4-14, 5-25 etc. and usually have to spend more $$$ for better performance. Resist the urge to cheap out on FFP, it’s usually better to save up for quality on FFP
Agreed on everything minus the 1-10 SFP. That would infuriate me lol. That's a lot of guesswork for my caveman brain.
@@navyman8903 that’s the only exception I’ve made on a 308 battle semiauto rifle… most of my engagements are up to 200 yards and I like the SFP reticle. 300 yards aim for the head and you’ll hit center mass. Any shots beyond 350 and I’m usually on a stable position at 10x magnification and I’m using the reticle holdovers. I had a 4-16x FFP scope that work well for longer ranges but it was a pain to use 50 yards and in. This is a very specific purpose/application and I would typically wouldn’t recommend a 1-10x SFP for 90% of Casual shooters out there.
Hello?
Good video. I've never liked LPVOs. FFP vs SFP issues, poor 1x compared to red dot or EOTech, bizarre reticle options, etc. I rarely have the opportunity to shoot out very far anyway, so I've stuck with EOTechs/dots with magnifiers on my stuff. If I was going to set up a rifle primarily for 200+ yards, I'd almost certainly get an ACOG with a piggybacked or offset dot. ACOGs have their own issues, but they're issues I'm willing to deal with. I really like the crosshair reticle Trijicon offers. Very intuitive for me. Always good to see the cats, btw.
What is that Steiner on your 308 build?
T5Xi 3-15x50 SCR MIL.
@@navyman8903 thanks! Do you like it? I’ve been looking for a good MPVO for my 308 build. Any other recommendations?
@12monkey57 I love it. I have a review on it. You can get the new T6Xi 2.5-15 with the SCR2 with windholds, or you can grab a Night Force ATACR 4-16×44 F1. Those are the two I would recommend for serious hard use. Spendy, but buy once cry once and be able to actually see what you're shooting at.
Can we just say FFP and end the conversation lol
Most of the time.
Let’s gooooo!!!
Cat :)
❤❤❤
well hello!
NX8 is worst NF ever, currently among quality manufacturers, worst LPVO out😊
I genuinely and truly hate that optic. A lot of dudes bought it blind because of the name and who adopted it. But it's trash tier.
@@navyman8903 🙌
@@ChristopherGoydich-cb6bd agreed on all your points for sure. Well said
This is me. FFP is dominate if it has a daylight illumination when it’s 1x . Have not found it . P4xi is only thing I run in second focal. Am I confused or just wasted too much money and not enough of real target time?
No, you're onto something I think. And the P4Xi is just so damn good for what it is.
FFP for me, unfortunately... But both have their own uses.