Edging, Training the Elite Skier
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- Опубліковано 12 січ 2022
- Video #2 of 2, John Leffler runs us through a step by step methodology using bands and other training aids for elite skiers to discover edging movements.
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The best explanations I’ve seen anywhere. Underrated channel
Thanks Vlad. Spread the word👍
Thanks Deb. Your videos are the best! I have been working with a trainer to get stronger, a steady diet of your videos and on mountain private instructors to rid myself of the dreaded A frame and get to pure carving. My issue has been how to get the feel of an early edge set and these last two videos really help my understanding. I can't wait to get back out on the slopes this weekend to work on initiating my turn with the abductors to the pinky toe first to get my weight over the new ski before getting forward towards the new big toe. I am always waiting for your next videos and these two definitely do not disappoint!!!
Thanks to you Deb., John. And even others on this channel with comments. I, like many understand about 80% with a keen interest to close that gap in understanding. I raced 40 years ago, now instruct wanting to understand better the Elite levels of skiing mechanics
I tried this and it's a HUGE concept! Read what Justin Fogerty said below for a good breakdown. My take is pulling back the "downhill" ski
gets your weight far forward on that ski fast which makes it bite in and bend. The ski does not know the difference between you leaning forward (press the shov as racers are told) or pulling the ski back but your body does. It also gets you on the downhill edge faster which increases control.
Really liked the knee band explanation starting at the 5:30 mark. Keeping the band taut throughout turns made so much intuitive sense. I’ve never worked with such an aid. I’ve been skiing for so many years on “auto pilot” (as an expert skier) that small flaws probably have crept in with age and maybe some have always been there. Deb your various ski drills on the hill and vids like this are really helping me re-establish that feeling I had as a teenager of striving to improve and being mindful of technique instead of just being on autopilot.
I feel the same way. Anyone knows the name of this knee band aid or where I can buy it?
Deb this is really fantastic stuff. The early knee movement causes edge at the initiation early on , then pulling back the dominant ski loads the dominant ski and stacks the body and the lunge of the inside ski moves the mass more forward for greater stability and creates more space for increased edge angle . So many coaches speak of pulling the inside ski back and pushing the outside or dominant ski forward. Now I see that the pushing of the dominant ski forward creates an unstable pushing position as the mass is therefore behind the feet. So the idea of pulling the outside ski back and moving the inside ski forward and up at the tail creates more stability and space for greater edge angles. The pulling back of the ski with the inside ski move causes the dominant ski to bend and load so much earlier. I have been working in Italy and in Switzerland last few months. Everyone is talking about pushing off on the dominant ski. The pulling back of the dominant ski as shown here creates the same idea but is far easier to execute and understand with the coordination of the inside ski movement .Thank you to you both and for the demonstrations.
Fantastic!!!!
Nice comment and description Justin. Completely agree with your conclusions.
It must be a new concept because looking around between racers , even on top one' s , a don't see anyone doing It.....so ?
@@faustoemattia its not new. There is much in skiing you don't see. Types of pressure management. Foot work inside the boot. These movements occure. Try feeling it yourself, subtle not exaggerated. I hope you feel a difference. Have fun!!!
nonnsense---you-be-dumping-insaide-hip-down-and-back-you-dumping-same-taime-upper-body-uphill-proper-way-is-circual-rotating-insaide-hip-back-insaide-ski-back-for-any-back-movment-is-opposite-movment-outsaide-ski--forwart-circual-movment-increasing-radius-of-the-turn-twaice-for-evry-rotation-on-daiagnol-axis-insaide-hip-back-first-5-inches-outsaide-hip-moves-10-inches-tanget-of-the-radius-increase-with-distans-narrow-stance-waide-hips-big-plus-the-gains-are-counter-upper-body-down-hill-lower-legs-pelvis-inclained-uphill-pelvis-conunter-down-hill-pelvis-rebound--from-forwart-and-down-flex-in-horizontal-plane-not-vertical-avoiding-boot-rebound-pelvis-recoil-too-neutral-stance-center-of-the-skis-pelvis-are-retracting-lower-legs-stable-upper-body--in-vertical-horizontal-axis-same-marco-odermatt
Deb - this is an amazing video! More, more, more.. keep up the great work. As everyone knows, there are a durge of videos that are all the same old content and should all be called 'How The Intermediate Can Get A Tiny Bit Better...' But this is so unique! And so much appreciated! Thanks again..
Glad you appreciate it. Spread the SkiStrong word!💪👍
Best video on ski technique I have seen in a long while. Great stuff.
Great. Thank you
Another great material! These lessons give me a lot. Thanks Deb!
This is fantastic explanation from all love it .The use of resistance bands and especially the one that was used for slowing the athlete down that is an awesome training tool thank you so much Deb
The gentleman’s passion is top notch 💯%
Very educational material, can’t wait to use this tips on the slopes 👍🏼
Incredible, amazing explanation. Very intuitive and with a method. Tomorrow Ill try it out !
Watching your videos are so inspirational thank so much.
Good!!!!!!!
Thank you
Another great vid by Deb Strong!
Just insanely good content thank you
Thanks Deb, great content!
This is gold, thank you!
Something to experiment tomorrow morning, the rubber band is already in my booth bag.
Tanks Deb & John
Great videos. Thank you.
This is fascinating!
Amazing content - I’m probably not ready yet for this level (or am I ) but at least I’m embedding the concepts early.
Great stuff... Thanks
You know you’re a baller when you wear business casual and a dodgers hat to the resort 😂
Fantastic
Masterpiece!
Thank you.. Spread the word!!!!!! Share it. 👍
Great Video Deb, nice to see you back :)
I think of it as the slide ski and the static ski. One should always be somewhat free and sliding.
Static ski is the one held in place to define line and direction, slide ski is positioned to begin the next turn.
1) toe up
2) weight slide (no popping)
3) establish new edge angle
4) toe down,static
Switch feet.
My contribution to ski knowledge.
Try ice skating straight down hill on skis.
See what happens.
Ah Breck @ Peak 9. What a great view.
Wow, that was a crazy ski jump at 7:33.
My one setence ski lesson:
A skilled skier stands in a wood hallway and walks down hill by stepping forward over the edge. 😊
Pic on the right at 5:26 really shows the required hip flexibility (something I struggle with as I get older...).... 😅
Eye-opening materials - thank you for making this video available to everyone. I'd appreciate one help here: There are 4 stages (neutral position, tip, new outer ski back, inner ski tail raise). At which moment TOPPLE happens during transition with respect to these stages?
>>>inner ski tail raise.
such good content Deb, an eye opener for those who’s coming from more of an instructor background. But why do we need to pull the outside foot back tho?
I think John explains it well, stability. Just like when we walk. The stabilizing muscles engage
pulling the outside leg back engages it just as if you were walking. this makes the brain want to favor it instead of the inside leg so you don't get inside. skiing is like the walking motion
@@samaraboyer9543 thank you!!!
I wish I could speak English better, I don't understand everything. But the videos are just great. I love what you are doing. What exactly is it about extending the inside ski/leg back 1:48? What will this movement give me while riding ?
Very cool! What are the bands and where do you get them?
Maybe these are cuttet bicycle tubs.
they are therabands. they are wrapped around your legs twice before being tied off. be careful not to get and nicks in it like when putting it on over your boots or else it will rip. we usually use either dark blue or grey bands but it is your choice
WOW, so it goes like: 1. knees, 2. move outside ski back, 3-4 drop & drive inside knee. Is that correct understanding?
Yep
I am totally on board with the activation of inside ski and have made it a focus for the past few seasons. What I'm struggling to understand is pulling back the strong side (downhill) leg. My focus and issue has been reducing the lead change by pulling the weak side (inside) leg back through the arc since a large lead change ends in being locked and back.
Correct. Don't want lead change that occurs through any twisting or shuffling and loss of ankle flexion. Lead of the insde ski in unavoidable. A natural occurance as the inside knee bends. Must maintain ankle flexion
Where can we find the book Quantum Ski Mechanics?
So, I watched some prior videos about shorting the inside leg to increase edge angles. It totally made sense, but when I tried it in practice, to much of the effect cause the angles between my legs to increase, because the inside ski seemed to carve away from the downhill ski. Is this why you "chamber"....to counteract this effect?
part of the motion of the power stroke which you are trying to achieve is also pulling your outside (or downhill) foot back. this causes your brain to want to favor it (this is because this motion is like the walking motion which your brain is already wired for) and so it won't track away from your inside half. you want your foot behind your hip. hope this helps
@@samaraboyer9543 to me it seems like "scissoring your legs" or lunging is a more accurate way to think about this motion. ..but I get it.
@@shooter7a yes it is a lunging motion
@@samaraboyer9543 FYI...I figured out what my problem was. It was mainly on GS skis. I developed a bad habit (on SL skis) of transitioning all my weight to the new ski too soon. When on GS skis...this caused the initiation to be very slow. As you are transitioning, the very early part of the turn works much better if you use BOTH skis. We all know that on hard snow, at the loaded point in the turn, we want 90-100% of the load on the outside ski. But early in the turn...we do NOT. We need both skis working...albeit for just a split second. Then, as soon as the skis are loaded/set, we have another sort of transition...to just one ski. This is accomplished with the motion as you described. But if you shift your weight to the new ski too soon...the ski actually loads up much slower. So...I was screwing up the early part of the turn, losing the outside ski, and then ending up with all my weight on the inside ski "plan B" style... It is all a learning process..and much of it we have to learn our own way.
the stress tensor created by the snow under precise gauge pressure/ temperature gradient manipulations producing exclusion zone memory... persistent, consistent residual tracks evidence the unfolding geometry fundamentally understanding nature.
Ha!!!!!!!!
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong thank you , that's my best joke yet and it's all real. thanks for laughing!
@@MrDogonjon I love it, I know its real, I do get it. Have fun out there!!!!
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Deb… Can you let us know where you host a Masters level training camp this fall?
Thank you
All I offer on snow is in Taos for the advanced skier through SkiStrong. I may offer a SkiStrong experience in Steamboat for the beginner intermediate skier.
Deb, can you share a link for such a rubber band? Or any rubber band that has an appropriate size can be used? What will be then appropriate size?
And forgot to mention that the explanation is awesome and when I started following methods from the video - it helps a lot to build that pressure on the dominant ski.
Hey, do you find such a product later? Thanks.
This video confuses me. In your previous video with a kid, you emphasized to pull the inside ski back to eliminate the tip divergence or inside ski tip control. That made sense to me because the inside knee forward movement gives the same mechanical effect as the pulling back the inside ski. But in this content, they are pulling back the outside ski and then make inside knee forward.. Is it like sequentially pulling both skis backward, like first pulling back outside ski then pulling back inside ski (or equivalently moving inside knee forward)??? I am making a progression with the inside ski and now having a sensation of controlling the turn shape by inside ski leading.
the outside gets pulled back to establish a dominant side (pulling back the outside foot makes you brain favor putting weight and pressure on that ski because it is like the walking motion which your brain is already wired for) and is pulled back so that the foot is behind your hip. your inside is also pulled back but not to as extreme a degree as the outside
@@samaraboyer9543 Thank you for your comment! Then it’s sequentially pulling both skis back, first the new outside ski and then the inside ski…(or pulling back the outside ski first then driving forward the inside knee..) so we stretch the outside leg then shorten the inside leg.. Thanks!
@@tube7769 I'm equally some what confused by the pulling back of the outside ski following the advise from the video with the young racer. in addition supported by a quote from Mikaela Shiffrin "drive with the inside and ride with the outside" Is John Leffner's advise a more advance move over and above the forementioned video. Assuming this position and making it my next progression, from a timing perspective, at what point is the inside ski pulled back after the suggested outside ski pull back phase. This winter I've been practicing pulling the inside back when floating in the transition. It would be great if Deb Armstrong could clear up this confussion
Y’a confused from this video too. Deb said pull back the inside to all ankle flexion and tipping. This video is pulling back the outside and takes lunge (step 4) to go even more forward. That totally loses the symmetry. Is it a racer thing?
Where can one purchase the book?
In the video I list John's email. You can purchase his manual directly from him.
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Thank you Deb. I love your content!!!
Where can you get that stretchy band around her waist that he pulls?
Don't know. On line where they sell fitness supplies im guessing
Where do I buy this guy's book?
Directly through John. His email is in the video.
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Thanks- Must have flown by. Love your content by the way. And watching you coach the groms is awesome.
What does it mean when they say "chamber"?
in general, Chamber means "ready to go". From the bullet in position to fire next in a gun: "in the chamber"
Sorry if this question is answered amongst all the comments, but which resort is this?
Breckenridge Colorado
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Thanks Deb. Great content and thanks for the enthusiasm. It's contagious.
This guy is smart...but me no understand...what is perpendicular to top sheets, and chambering...is that a stance thing?
tell him my name is john too and that i said hi.
april1
"topsheets"?
Top of your skis
Deb does a better job explaining, doesn’t use distracting explanations
Around 7:30 + on video all the BS talk on stability when the focus should be on balance. The best skiers do not focus on stability they focus on balance. Most of the ski instructor industry has it wrong promoting wide stance golf cart stability. Wide stance stability takes away from balance & performance. Narrow stance can switch balance from one foot to the other lighting fast. The wide stance that is being promoted by keeping tension on the rubber band wont hold up in skiing powder or bumps plus slower in race course. Wide stance = conflicting edge angles. Often to become a better skier just do the opposite of what the ski instructor tells you to do.
This content does not come from a ski instructor. John is a race coach who works with national teams. This content is race related. Sorry you were not able to notice this
It is still BS even if a so called Ivory Tower intellect says it. Sorry if you just follow the herd without any independent thinking to be able to judge truth from BS.