Everything produced for 4E is underrated and underappreciated. It's sad the player base wasn't ready for the change in *perspective* that it brought. It's my second favorite way to play D&D, after the very old school B/X and AD&D era.
I'm in the minority in that I actually like 4e (it's my favorite D&D system actually, which is funny since my second favorite is BECMI/RC and 3rd favorite is 2e). The Nentir Vale was just... It was beyond awesome! Even today I crib ideas from it all the time for my various TTRPG settings and the few times I ran 5e I used the "Dawn War (aka the Nentire Vale) deities" in the DMG for the clerics (somewhat modified to take into account the newer cleric domains and such). I think that's why I like 4e and BECMI so much - so much of their core worlds were built from the ground up to facilitate adventures of all stripes and power levels. Running the system is also so easy and fun since the enemies can be made on the fly but aren't held back by multiple different sourcebooks worth of spells I would need to look up, and the various abilities and powers of the players kept the stories moving and grooving with ease. Contrary to the whole "it's just combat all the time" myth, I've ran so many sessions of just nothing but RP and the groups loved it all! Combat could get a little long at higher levels but I feel most of it was just people not knowing to put down little tokens next to monsters of their debuffs and such (we had little slips of paper we would place under enemies to keep track of that stuff). All in all, it was a good system with an AMAZING core setting that sadly never got the coverage it deserved.
Thank you for your show on the Nentir Vale. I agree, it's a fantastic place and one I've had so much fun with just inventing my own stuff for it mostly. Didn't realise there was so much published history and background outside the core 4e books and starter sets. Thanks for that. Cheers.
I love the map of the vale. It contains a wide selection of different types of terrain, and it is enclosed by mountains and forests, so, as you say, you could play there for years and have all kinds of variety.
Nice to see some love for Nentir Vale. I fell in love with it through the Hammerfast city guide; ghosts and mortals living side by side. I’m looking to go back to running over the winter too and returning to the Vale is the obvious choice. Really want to go with the high adventure, points of light setting needs heroes feel. It’s good to know that I’m not the only one who remembers it
Thanks for making a video about Nentir Vale. It's a very underrated campaign setting. It's a real shame that WotC cancelled Gazeteer: The Nentir Vale and the other gazeteers that were going to follow it and flesh out Nerath.
Agreed, it's one of the underappreciated aspects of 4e (beyond all the system discontent), that they decided to just start a new infinitely customisable setting… and a good one. Nentir Vale had just enough in it to get things started, but wasn't overwhelming with layers of lore - and, as you say, that imaginative freedom is fun. In real terms, I think every setting there's ever been for D&D was presented with that idea in mind. For me, I began in the Known World, no Mystara™ yet, so I felt free to include anything I chose. Even the Forgotten Realms (if I remember correctly from chatter at the TSR stand at a 1987 UK game convention) was initially meant to be a new framework for a DM's own worldbuilding - more like a series of examples for how the copious quantities of classes, monsters and mechanics AD&D had built-up, COULD be incorporated into parts of a setting - not taken whole-cloth, like some hardline repository of absolute lore for a world that MUST include everything. But over time the lore becomes a steamroller, flattening fun as it relentlessly tames every corner of the landscape. Nowadays, I'm not sure the idea of wild, self-initiated invention will get as many mentions from the official D&D. IP is too valuable. The watchword will more likely be customisation, but only within the system (or digitally) defined parameters.
Awesome video! This definitely sounds like the kind of game I would love to run and play, honestly. I hope everyone at your table has a lot of fun with this! Sounds like you've hit a vein of inspiration, and I'm here for it!
@@bearthegenxgm While I would enjoy a lore video series from you, I think I would rather hear about the lore you wish to develop for Final Age, Codex Albana, etc. Nentir Vale sounds really cool, but there's no need to toot someone else's horn--expand and develop your own, you know? But hey, always follow where inspiration and creativity take you!
@@DarkKnightCuron that said I am certain I want to make lore videos for my world as well, I'm just feeling creatively burnt out right not and need time away from my head. Plus I really do need to learn how to use my Adobe video editing software too. ;)
Couldn't agree more. Thanks for giving me more resources to look up. I'm writing up encounter tables for the NV and the surrounding areas as I watch this. Like other commenters, I also am a 4e fan and am going to run a campaign starting with the sunless citadel. I converted it over and I think it's more interesting than the original. Having loads of kobold and goblin minions to play with as well as the various monster types beyond just "goblin" or "kobold" is great. Also since they have meepo in one of the 4e books, I couldn't pass on the opportunity. As for running the game, I'm getting rid of the level progression system as it's pointless except as training wheels for newbie DMs. Makes players happy too. Also will reduce XP rewards from monster by 1/20th so players focus more on quests and other things to get XP. And then I can do random encounters without worrying about giving too much XP. Going to do point crawl and leave it open to hexcrawl if the players go for it also. With some minor tweaks and old school DMing the NV is the perfect world to go out and explore as well as enjoy set adventures. And since converting 3e adventures to 4e is relatively easy I'm hoping I can take everyone all the way up to meet Ashardalon.
@@bearthegenxgm You might like it, but as I said, it is very similar to Nentir Vale, from what you said in this video. The Thunder Rift accessory expects characters to move to the main Mystara setting at some point. It is very small physically (I think 24x48 miles in size, but I haven't looked in a long time). Goblins in those hills, dwarves over there, magic users have a school out that way, the fighter academy is over there, etc. The Thunder Rift adventure, Knight of Newts, is my go-to module for brand new players since it is short, concise, and can be played in a few hours.
@@michaelwallace6851 Interesting. Nentir Vale honestly is self-contained with little incentive to leave the vale, it's quite large and full of adventure at least to level 10, though after that the larger would is mostly undefined. I'll check out some Thunder Rift stuff though :) Thanks for telling me about it.
@@bearthegenxgm In between work calls today I have looked up Nentir Vale a bit. It is geographically much larger than Thunder Rift. I am liking what I am seeing so far! I don't think it's worth spending money on 4e for it but the wikis are usable.
@@bearthegenxgm We've been going strong for a year. The party's gone through the Keep on the Shadowfell, Thunderspire Labyrynth, and done quests and adventures in pretty much every mark on the map except for Hammerfast and The Temple of the Yellow Skulls. Now they're exploring Gardmore Abbey. There's a hybrid skill challenge/battle that takes place with spiders there that's unique; it's the first time I've ever seen something like that. Since they can only use their skills to disable webs, they can't just fireball the place and bypass everything (which my OP lvl 7 players are inclined to do).... thereby locking them into combat with any spiders that come out after failed skill checks. It brought me joy to get some damage in. They put some thought in to their encounters and it's been really refreshing.
I’m a gen Xer. Do not like 4E. But nentir vale is a great setting with interesting lore. I will admit I did gain respect for 4E when gamma world used the mechanics. It played real well. And I liked it for that setting. I did start stealing ideas from 4E when I run OSE or 5E games because my group knows nothing about that edition. So I admit there are lots of gems in 4E. I agree I don’t like the mos eisley kitchen sink approach to 5E
While 4e was kind of its mmo thing, it was how i stepped into dnd (without the hellacious buy in that 3e was at the time, with all the books and splats, and of course 4e did the same thing,but hey easier when you start in on it) i do like the nentir vale and the points of light setting.
@@erfarkrasnobay havent played divinity. But 4e wanted that mmo market. You had a big push for classes fulfilling specific roles in a party, defender, striker, healer, controller, and monsters split into minions, leaders, etc. A big push for showering players in custom tailored loot.
@@NotoriusBEN1 specific roles were not exclusive to 4e, they always existed since OD&D. The fact that they named it does not make more present than before. So that's no proof of the "MMO thing" argument. Monster having "specific roles" was a step back from 3e, which monsters had the same creation process that the players. The goal was to make combat easier to prep for the DM. Again, no MMO thing. That's a myth people that hate 4e spread without proof.
Why do people still argue that 4e was not the mmo cash grab that it was? It absolutely was and the lead designers admitted that, finally. It absolutely was designed to be an easy transition for mmo players to the tabletop. Even the adds were targeted at this, cf. the play an elf with friends ad.
NV is incredible and the way the books were written for 4e, making knowledge checks matter with how well a character rolls, is just amazing.
Everything produced for 4E is underrated and underappreciated. It's sad the player base wasn't ready for the change in *perspective* that it brought. It's my second favorite way to play D&D, after the very old school B/X and AD&D era.
I'm in the minority in that I actually like 4e (it's my favorite D&D system actually, which is funny since my second favorite is BECMI/RC and 3rd favorite is 2e). The Nentir Vale was just... It was beyond awesome! Even today I crib ideas from it all the time for my various TTRPG settings and the few times I ran 5e I used the "Dawn War (aka the Nentire Vale) deities" in the DMG for the clerics (somewhat modified to take into account the newer cleric domains and such). I think that's why I like 4e and BECMI so much - so much of their core worlds were built from the ground up to facilitate adventures of all stripes and power levels. Running the system is also so easy and fun since the enemies can be made on the fly but aren't held back by multiple different sourcebooks worth of spells I would need to look up, and the various abilities and powers of the players kept the stories moving and grooving with ease. Contrary to the whole "it's just combat all the time" myth, I've ran so many sessions of just nothing but RP and the groups loved it all! Combat could get a little long at higher levels but I feel most of it was just people not knowing to put down little tokens next to monsters of their debuffs and such (we had little slips of paper we would place under enemies to keep track of that stuff).
All in all, it was a good system with an AMAZING core setting that sadly never got the coverage it deserved.
Thank you for your show on the Nentir Vale. I agree, it's a fantastic place and one I've had so much fun with just inventing my own stuff for it mostly. Didn't realise there was so much published history and background outside the core 4e books and starter sets. Thanks for that. Cheers.
I love the map of the vale. It contains a wide selection of different types of terrain, and it is enclosed by mountains and forests, so, as you say, you could play there for years and have all kinds of variety.
Nice to see some love for Nentir Vale. I fell in love with it through the Hammerfast city guide; ghosts and mortals living side by side. I’m looking to go back to running over the winter too and returning to the Vale is the obvious choice. Really want to go with the high adventure, points of light setting needs heroes feel. It’s good to know that I’m not the only one who remembers it
This video is awesome, would love to see more lore videos about Nentir Vale
I plan to do a few more for Fantasy Fridays! Stay tuned :)
Funny how we were talking about this last night and this shows up in my search today.
Thanks for making a video about Nentir Vale. It's a very underrated campaign setting.
It's a real shame that WotC cancelled Gazeteer: The Nentir Vale and the other gazeteers that were going to follow it and flesh out Nerath.
Agreed, especially since the Nentir Vale Gaz was completed! :(
Yay! PoL is my favorite and Planescape. I too never cared for Forgotten Realms. I enjoy Mystara. But PoL is my favorite of all of them.
Agreed, it's one of the underappreciated aspects of 4e (beyond all the system discontent), that they decided to just start a new infinitely customisable setting… and a good one.
Nentir Vale had just enough in it to get things started, but wasn't overwhelming with layers of lore - and, as you say, that imaginative freedom is fun.
In real terms, I think every setting there's ever been for D&D was presented with that idea in mind.
For me, I began in the Known World, no Mystara™ yet, so I felt free to include anything I chose. Even the Forgotten Realms (if I remember correctly from chatter at the TSR stand at a 1987 UK game convention) was initially meant to be a new framework for a DM's own worldbuilding - more like a series of examples for how the copious quantities of classes, monsters and mechanics AD&D had built-up, COULD be incorporated into parts of a setting - not taken whole-cloth, like some hardline repository of absolute lore for a world that MUST include everything. But over time the lore becomes a steamroller, flattening fun as it relentlessly tames every corner of the landscape.
Nowadays, I'm not sure the idea of wild, self-initiated invention will get as many mentions from the official D&D. IP is too valuable. The watchword will more likely be customisation, but only within the system (or digitally) defined parameters.
Only officially sanctioned fun will be allowed ;)
Awesome video! This definitely sounds like the kind of game I would love to run and play, honestly. I hope everyone at your table has a lot of fun with this! Sounds like you've hit a vein of inspiration, and I'm here for it!
I might do some lore videos for it, never done those before... will have to learn how ;)
@@bearthegenxgm While I would enjoy a lore video series from you, I think I would rather hear about the lore you wish to develop for Final Age, Codex Albana, etc. Nentir Vale sounds really cool, but there's no need to toot someone else's horn--expand and develop your own, you know? But hey, always follow where inspiration and creativity take you!
@@DarkKnightCuron I wear a lot of hats Curtis and the best way to avoid burnout is to play with other toys ;)
@@bearthegenxgm That's fair! Play on, good sir!
@@DarkKnightCuron that said I am certain I want to make lore videos for my world as well, I'm just feeling creatively burnt out right not and need time away from my head. Plus I really do need to learn how to use my Adobe video editing software too. ;)
Nentir Vale is suprisingly good. It's very Warhammery and generic D&D in a good way.
Couldn't agree more. Thanks for giving me more resources to look up.
I'm writing up encounter tables for the NV and the surrounding areas as I watch this.
Like other commenters, I also am a 4e fan and am going to run a campaign starting with the sunless citadel. I converted it over and I think it's more interesting than the original. Having loads of kobold and goblin minions to play with as well as the various monster types beyond just "goblin" or "kobold" is great. Also since they have meepo in one of the 4e books, I couldn't pass on the opportunity.
As for running the game, I'm getting rid of the level progression system as it's pointless except as training wheels for newbie DMs. Makes players happy too. Also will reduce XP rewards from monster by 1/20th so players focus more on quests and other things to get XP. And then I can do random encounters without worrying about giving too much XP.
Going to do point crawl and leave it open to hexcrawl if the players go for it also. With some minor tweaks and old school DMing the NV is the perfect world to go out and explore as well as enjoy set adventures.
And since converting 3e adventures to 4e is relatively easy I'm hoping I can take everyone all the way up to meet Ashardalon.
It’s a good setting to bad it didn’t get any 5e love
Given what they've done to Spelljammer, and are about to do to Dragonlance, I don't see this as a bad thing in the final analysis. ;)
Here is another video on the Nentir Vale: ua-cam.com/video/NRj78px9FgQ/v-deo.html
I'm not familiar with either Nentir Vale or 4e but that map reminds me quite a bit of Thunder Rift, which is an awesome setting from BECMI.
I know OF Thunder Rift, but only encountered it in a video game.
@@bearthegenxgm You might like it, but as I said, it is very similar to Nentir Vale, from what you said in this video. The Thunder Rift accessory expects characters to move to the main Mystara setting at some point.
It is very small physically (I think 24x48 miles in size, but I haven't looked in a long time). Goblins in those hills, dwarves over there, magic users have a school out that way, the fighter academy is over there, etc.
The Thunder Rift adventure, Knight of Newts, is my go-to module for brand new players since it is short, concise, and can be played in a few hours.
@@michaelwallace6851 Interesting. Nentir Vale honestly is self-contained with little incentive to leave the vale, it's quite large and full of adventure at least to level 10, though after that the larger would is mostly undefined. I'll check out some Thunder Rift stuff though :) Thanks for telling me about it.
@@bearthegenxgm In between work calls today I have looked up Nentir Vale a bit. It is geographically much larger than Thunder Rift. I am liking what I am seeing so far! I don't think it's worth spending money on 4e for it but the wikis are usable.
@@michaelwallace6851 if you know how to google sneakily you can find PDFs for ALL the articles for Nentir Vale as well ;)
#inspired, starting a campaign here on Thursday.
Awesome! Let us know how it goes!
@@bearthegenxgm We've been going strong for a year. The party's gone through the Keep on the Shadowfell, Thunderspire Labyrynth, and done quests and adventures in pretty much every mark on the map except for Hammerfast and The Temple of the Yellow Skulls. Now they're exploring Gardmore Abbey. There's a hybrid skill challenge/battle that takes place with spiders there that's unique; it's the first time I've ever seen something like that. Since they can only use their skills to disable webs, they can't just fireball the place and bypass everything (which my OP lvl 7 players are inclined to do).... thereby locking them into combat with any spiders that come out after failed skill checks. It brought me joy to get some damage in. They put some thought in to their encounters and it's been really refreshing.
I’m a gen Xer. Do not like 4E. But nentir vale is a great setting with interesting lore. I will admit I did gain respect for 4E when gamma world used the mechanics. It played real well. And I liked it for that setting. I did start stealing ideas from 4E when I run OSE or 5E games because my group knows nothing about that edition. So I admit there are lots of gems in 4E. I agree I don’t like the mos eisley kitchen sink approach to 5E
While 4e was kind of its mmo thing, it was how i stepped into dnd (without the hellacious buy in that 3e was at the time, with all the books and splats, and of course 4e did the same thing,but hey easier when you start in on it) i do like the nentir vale and the points of light setting.
So is Divinity original sin with hero powers are MMO? Or you just wrong?
@@erfarkrasnobay havent played divinity. But 4e wanted that mmo market. You had a big push for classes fulfilling specific roles in a party, defender, striker, healer, controller, and monsters split into minions, leaders, etc. A big push for showering players in custom tailored loot.
@@NotoriusBEN1 specific roles were not exclusive to 4e, they always existed since OD&D. The fact that they named it does not make more present than before. So that's no proof of the "MMO thing" argument. Monster having "specific roles" was a step back from 3e, which monsters had the same creation process that the players. The goal was to make combat easier to prep for the DM. Again, no MMO thing. That's a myth people that hate 4e spread without proof.
Why do people still argue that 4e was not the mmo cash grab that it was? It absolutely was and the lead designers admitted that, finally. It absolutely was designed to be an easy transition for mmo players to the tabletop. Even the adds were targeted at this, cf. the play an elf with friends ad.
@@ilfurlano1228it was. Mearls discussed this and even the ads targeted mmo players.
Vary cool
What was that big map from?
I am working on a black hack hack that might be of interest to you
You have my attention sir.