Rethinking Book Reviews
Вставка
- Опубліковано 27 кві 2024
- What are your thoughts on star ratings?
SUPPORT THE CHANNEL/SEND ME A BOOK
Amazon Wish List: www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls...
FIRESIDE DISCORD
/ discord
TWITTER/X
@BooksFury
GOODREADS
goodreads.com/redfurybooks
Please LIKE, COMMENT and SUBSCRIBE! And check out some of my past videos!
Thanks for watching!
I tend to prefer reviews that end with a recommendation as opposed to a rating. So for example, for books you might end it with a "don't read it," "borrow it from the library," "buy it," or "worthy of a special edition and re-reads."
Yes! I like these too.
Interesting! I was considering other verbiage as well, like "recommended without reservation," or "recommended for X type of readers," etc.
@@RedFuryBooks That's also a really good idea. Put it in terms of "if you like this sort of thing, this book is for you" maybe?
@@Dukeruckley that's most likely what I'll start doing if I ditch the ratings.
I like the star ratings. I find it useful as you said to gage someone's tastes at a glance. I do not always have time to read every review. If a lot of reviewers I trust give a book 4-5 stars it shoots up my TBR by default. Everyone who is well adjusted knows it's subjective. The actual review is more useful however because you tell me why you liked or didn't like a book. Sometimes what one person hates is exactly what I want or the opposite.
Good point about the review often changing the perception of the rating!
Enjoyed this chat! I fully embrace a personal enjoyment star rating system for myself, but can definitely see the conundrums around it you’re discussing. I don’t think on booktube specifically that they’re essential, since you can usually tell how much people enjoyed it through their expressions and way they talked about the book.
Thank you, Ben, I value this input!
We don't need to be trained reviewers, but I like reviews to be deep, talking about the theme and its relationship with self. Such as the 39 Steps our book club is going to discuss this month, I will ask about whether they have experienced the similar mood as the protagonist had, whether they had come up a decision considering their resources and what were their analysis process. I think that's why reading is so interesting, because it relates to readers. Congratulation for 4 years on the booktuber.
A star rating gives a viewer something to hold on to. But I agree that the rating itself is not the whole story. When people are merely focussed on the star rating, and hardly listen to your argumentation and nuance, that is their loss. And even though you're not an educated book reviewer, you are a very experienced reader. Which also counts for something...
That's a very valid point. Thanks!
I may mention my star rating now and then but I usually just focus on important elements of the books. My interest in star ratings seems to be declining as I get more involved as a reviewer and I mostly just keep it to Goodreads now. It’s interesting to reflect on
Obviously the right answer is to drop them if they are stifling your passion for the review process as the community needs your input first and foremost.
I have to say I do love numbers and gravitate to stars naturally. You hit the nail on the head in saying it is a great short hand tool that helps identify someone’s tastes. Ultimately I already know from watching you for so long that you have impeccable taste so it would not be a loss to me but might be to newer viewers.
Great food for thought here, Al, thank you!
For your reviews here on YT, I think you explain clearly what you like and/or don't like in a specific book that a star rating isn't necessary anymore.
That is definitely my hope if I abandon the star ratings.
I personally equal star ratings as: 1=DNF or barely finished due to lack of interest; 2=Finished, but didn’t really enjoy; 3=Liked the book ok;4=Really liked the book;5=Loved the book and would reread. I don’t tend to give many 1 or 5 star ratings as I’m not overly critical, except that to hit 5 it has to be really good. I know everyone has different standards for what star ratings mean, so if you drop them, as long as you discuss the merits of the books you review most watchers can place it on their own scale.
I think everyone having different ideas of a 5-star system definitely is a detractor.
Very interesting food for thought! I am personally a big fan of using ratings, but only because it helps me categorize my reads in terms of enjoyment. I don't put a lot of deeper thought into my ratings and I honestly don't mind if reviewers leave their ratings out. In fact, when I review on the blog myself, I don't include a star rating either! You should totally do whatever makes you feel most comfortable, I will always be here to listen to your bookish thoughts!
Thanks, Esmay, I appreciate your thoughts!
I like the star rating but with in-depth review, with a beginning of no spoilers as well as a spoiler section at the end. See Alex@ Frankfiction’s Remembrance of Earth’s Past reviews. They are insightful & intelligent! Even her latest review was interesting probably better than the book itself.
That said, I loved your Hyperion review!
I liked your group book spoiler discussions of the 5WA too. You are a great moderator and always have insightful things to discuss. I would love to see more of those in the future.
In the past I noticed that when it comes to spoiler discussions Dr. Chase always brings a gravitas and Allen always brings humor. When they come together like in their Guards! Guards! discussion, the video itself is just as good as the reading experience. That is the best of booktube!
I love the livestreams as well - I had a blast taking about Tigana on Johanna's channel today. I definitely want to host more of those!
This was a really great discussion Josh! I got rid of star ratings on my channel a long time ago in favor of a rating system that is more specific to me. I do still use them on Goodreads, but I’m not very helpful because they are usually 4-5 stars lol.
Thanks, Chas!
I never use stars in my video reviews. I do rate everything on Goodreads and Storygraph though.
When it comes to video reviews stars don't really make sense. The viewer is there to hear your thoughts about the book in form longer than something like "4 stars, book good".
Great video.
Thanks! That's pretty much my plans in all likelihood - keep the ratings on Goodreads and ditch them here.
I usually follow BookTubers that I’ve learn through their videos if they have similar tastes as mine (like in your case). When that happens, all I want to know about a book review is: is it good or bad and why he thinks that way. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter to me the stars. But, that’s my humble opinion. Either way, I’ll still keep watching! 😃
Thanks!
I stopped using stars about a year and a half ago. I was finding it was cutting into my enjoyment of reading because I was critiquing as I read. It was getting in the way of being fully immersed in the story/world. Plus I was giving most books 4 stars, which isn't helpful.
I've been an avid reader for 40+ years and never thought to giving ratings until I found booktube 4.5 years ago.
That's a great point about continually thinking about the critique along the way.
I gave this video 5 Beethovens.
My tastes align with yours and Mike's as well for the most part. While I did/do pay attention to the stars you gave, I pay more attention to what you say and your face while you say it because your face speaks.
Great input - thank you!
I think you answered your own question Josh. Star ratings aren't objective evaluations of books or of an author's artistic merit (Your Beethoven example), but rather if you decide to view them (as I do) of simply the subjective experience one person gets out of a book, others can use that rating to help inform reading decisions and you yourself can also categorize books you've read. I've always viewed ratings that way anyway and appreciate when booktubers use them. Maybe change your last line on a book in your wrap up to "I gave this x stars on Goodreads", haha.
Some very good points, Danny!
Josh, I find you're a fair, thorough and wellspoken reviewer, i may not always agree but I always come out of it with a clear understanding as to why you did/didn't like something. Its why Allen is one of my favourite people on the platform, he thinks some of my favourite books of all-time are boring or overhyped and i completely see why.
An unpopular opinion I have regarding reviews is I actually don't think a lot of reviewers are that good at reviewing, its really more reacting and while yes, a review is a reaction, a reaction isn't always a review. I'm talking generally, its not exclusively a booktube thing.
Thank you!
I agree that the instant reaction to a book by myself or reviewers is not a smart idea as a week later we have had time to let our thoughts settle more.
If I have to give starts it is purely on my enjoyment. A page turner can get 5 automatically, but even the most well written can get 2 for boring me senseless.
A review that explains good and bad is much more meaningful. Roro Reads is great at this, 5 min reviews, good and bad, he also does a lot of non fantasy.
Mostly I just appreciate absolute honesty.
Well my book review is just my stream of thoughts haha. Basically what I notice when I read the book. I tried to give rating out of 10 but I do prefer hearing what people analysis of the book.
Cogent thoughts! You probably know I’m pretty ambivalent when it comes to stars. When you say 2 stars, it’s a very hard to avoid the “not worth reading” judgement, to me anyway. You may have eloquently explained that it’s a well written book, just not for you, etc., but it’s hard to shake that 2 star judgement. Stars are so explicit, and a discussion is far more implicit and contextual.
I’m a no stars in my videos, stars on goodreads (usually) kind of guy, and I think that could work for you too.
That's what I ended up doing - keep the stars on Goodreads and ditch them on the channel. I didn't do ratings in my video yesterday and no one mentioned it, so no issues!
I don’t script or use star ratings, and I’m not bothered if others do. Stars are just a shorthand language for enjoyment level. I can see how there might be value in that, but it can get muddy when you compare retrospectively across books (like in your Beethoven example). All that said, no one has said that my feelings in reviews (in videos) are unclear without the stars. 🤷🏻♀️
I agree, I see them as really effective shorthand but other that it just seems like splitting hairs to me and let's not get into the inclusion of decimal points 😂
I marvel at the decimal points rating systems! I think they have some advanced algorithm that I can't understand lol
One thing you said on the Discord, Johanna, stuck with me with the ratings is that on Goodreads, the stars are a designed as a metric of enjoyment. So no harm in including them there. On the channel, however, it all boils down to what we all want our reviews to convey. Your reviews (with no star ratings) and Jimmy and some others make it pretty clear whether you like a book, but I have discovered several channels that I feel are so objective that I have no idea if they enjoyed a book or not.
@@RedFuryBooks I'm relieved you consider my reviews clear here on BookTube. I did wonder when you mentioned those who don't include stars (though I don't think Mike includes stars in his video reviews).
More than whether someone enjoyed the book or not, I'm most intrigued by why the person enjoyed the book. What interesting things do they have to say about the book, even if they are new to reading or the genre? I also think the visual aspect (facial expressions and vocal inflection) adds to that as well. That's one reason why BookTube is my preferred review platform.
Yes, Mike doesn't give stars earlier. I rambled a bit and cut out the part where I mentioned that. I also cut a bit where I mentioned that Jimmy is one of my favorite reviewers, and he doesn't have a rating system except for his Nutt button! I probably should've done an outline for this video to be honest!
I’ve enjoyed Philip’s way of viewing fav books by different criteria, then seeing how that all converts to a top top 10.
Helped explain how and why books ended up where.
I also love how you look at some older works. Brian Durfee is good for that too. Plus you both read outside fantasy which is lovely.
Have you seen the BBC Musketeers TV show. It was fun.
I find some books I would rate very high on writing, concepts covered, world building but they can even with all that get a super low score due to massive plot holes and crazy convenience, and too many flat characters. Both Babel and Blood & Fury bored me senseless for those.
So I think from that where a book has a “negative” then it’s great when reviewers recommend other books that do those areas better.
Example would be Babel tackles slavery and colonialism (topics important too me) but Liveships actually nails these issues in far more depth and with much greater creativity so my recommendation would be higher for Liveships for books tackling the nuances and evil of slavery and colonialism. 12 years a Slave would be a non fantasy rec.
I am loving the mood reading by many content creators at present, feels more authentic ❤ I would hate to “have to” read any book as I often dip to re reads, middle school, YA, non fiction, classics, great drama fiction, historical fiction and actual history. Even romantasy, though it’s normally accidental 😊
Love your wrap ups
Thank you for your feedback and glad you enjoy the monthly wrap ups!
I like the idea of keeping the ratings on goodreads but not including them on the channel. Maybe times- not always, but many - you can probably guess roughly what a rating is from someones video. We have tone, facial expression, and more time and space to explain our thoughts. Goodreads reviews CAN convey what you felt about a novel, obviously. But I do think theres a bit more to be left in the cracks there. Plus, its just handy as a resource. If im recommending a book to someone, to be able to scroll their goodreads and quickly see what theyve rated is handy.
That's what I'm leaning towards. I have 5 days to decide until I film my April wrap up! LOL
I always assume star ratings reflect personal enjoyment and that is helpful. The star by itself is helpful even if there is no explanation but is best when accompanied by a few words - I liked this (or didn't like this) because.... Also its a scale right. You can like a book or you can LOVE a book. You can hate a book or feel indifferent. Even if I don't know the person's exact definition of each level, I can still good sense by seeing where it falls on the scale. Also it is very helpful on Amazon and GoodReads because I like to sample reviews from each level so I can get the full range of reaction to a particular book. On Booktube it is a little different because obviously you are going to talk at lengthy about a book and use words to express that range so either is fine.
Yes, I'll most likely continue using them elsewhere - Goodreads, Discord, etc. - but with UA-cam since I'm able to convey more thoughts, they probably aren't as necessary.
I’m totally on board with stopping the use of star ratings. I think, at times, it can stifle your freedom to accurately rate a book, particularly when it comes to the impression it left on you after completion. And nowadays, with literally everything from films to vacuum cleaners using the rating, it’s not a bad idea to rethink the use of it for books.
Thank you!
I think star ratings are nice but people focus on them to much. The more important part of a review is everything else you say about a book. A star rating is a tictok the full review is a movie or that is how I think about it. It is kind of funny to me to say that as someone who is very strict about star ratings lol.
Great points!
I'd be honored to have you one star my books anytime.
Aw, thanks, Joe! You're in my TBR spreadsheet!
Hi, I am not swayed by others negative star ratings, I grew up reading lots of fantasy that no one else I knew read, so I make up my own mind, there are many reasons why I might like a book that someone else might not. I am swayed by others positive reviews tho, if Mike likes a book alot I check it out. Maybe u should only rate books u really really like??
Interesting thought!
Ratings on the channel don’t strike me as being very useful, except perhaps as clickbait on a thumbnail.
On Goodreads, I think they can be of limited use for others and a bit more useful for the rater. Take a recent video of yours on best books by year since birth. My star ratings, combined with Goodreads filters, make it easy for me to satisfy my own curiosity on this.
I also will look at average ratings for books (and especially over the course of a series). With some experience, this conveys some (but very little) info.
Book reviews do poorly by the numbers online, but even worse are detailed discussions of what goes on within a book. These should be the most interesting content. But unfortunately, they also seem to have the most limited audience.
Yes, it's a shame that the book reviews as well as discussions seem to perform the worst on YT. But I do appreciate when certain book review videos do keep getting views over time.
Too many book tubers are more and more catering to the audience. What I like is the honesty of covering and doing what your book passions are. I’ve left the Greene’s and Murphy’s because they sold out to views. Be yourself and hope the audience comes to you. Too many sellouts in this world, don’t add another one.
Thank you!
I’ve left many a page in past year because it’s all about the views and growth, with some advising not to read certain books they have never even tried to read, or telling viewers to read books based on other pages reviews. That’s just insane !
I don’t care how fun videos are by creators if I find out they are “reviewing” but haven’t ever read the books !
I also massively dislike those who are clearly reviewing for book gifts. Or friends of the authors. Just be honest. Your faces give it away anyway.
I get very fed up when everyone seems to have the same books being read and reviewed, so I am enjoying many switching to mood reading and no set video time tables from creators ❤
I prefer star ratings. Sometimes a review can be positive but sound negative, and vice versa. Say "I liked this book a lot, but..." and then proceed to talk about all the things that brought it down. By the end I'm unsure as to whether it was a recommendation or not. A star rating underlines the review.
As for whether a star rating is objective, I feel it's not supposed to be. As you said, we gravitate towards booktubers who share our own views and tastes. If you didn't enjoy an objectively fantastic book, then chances are I won't either. I look for character and personality in any video, but particularly when it comes to reviews. I don't want a bland "here's what's good, here's what's bad, make your own mind up." It's boring, and doesn't help me much.
Thanks for your input here. I think if I do indeed get rid the star ratings, I'll take more time to accurately convey whether I loved/liked/didn't like/hated a book to make sure I'm clear in that regard.
Star ratings can be useful in the context of comparing an individual reviewer’s opinions on different books.
But aggregating scores across l hundreds of reviews is fairly meaningless in my view (Goodreads!).
Everyone has a different methodology, so for some 3 stars is a highly enjoyable book, for others it’s an average one. A lot of reviewers throw out 5 star ratings like confetti, but to others it should only be given to an all time classic.
That's a great point about aggregate scores, because everyone has their own rating system. For one person, they will never give out a 5-star rating unless they think it's perfect, and others will give 5 stars if they simply love the book.
Gave this video 7/5 Steibelts.
Nice! That's what I'll do - a different rating system for every book!
Would you jump to a 1-10 rating system?
Probably not. I think 3/5 sounds like a more positive rating than 6/10 for some reason.
@@RedFuryBooks That’s fair. You could say screw it and make your own unique rating system. That could be neat.
@@justApigeon. in the comments thread Belltube gave this video 5 Beethovens 🤣
Hello. I pay no attention to stars given. I listen to your opinions and go from there. Since tastes differ, I take the comments and stars with a grain of salt. I decide if it's a good read or not. I'm just putting my ear to the ground to hear 'the buzz.' I hope this helps.
Thank you, Curt, this does help, as I value your opinion.
whos mike?
Mike from Mike's Book Reviews - one of the best channels out there!
I think if you're leaning toward doing away with star ratings, you should give yourself permission to stop doing them. You provide a lot of excellent insights and commentary on the books you read, including what worked and what didn't with regard to different aspects of each book, and I think that's more important than star ratings.
Thank you, Michael, I appreciate this input!
@@RedFuryBooks my pleasure!
I'm on the record as being not much of a fan of star ratings based solely on enjoyment. Based on my position, I've been called all sorts of unpleasant things, including "elitist," but I think my position is the exact opposite of elitist. "Enjoyment" is fuzzy and subjective and often says more about the reader at that particular time than the book. If you're rating books exclusively or mostly on enjoyment, you're not rating the book, but rather your experience of the book at that time. On the other hand, it really is possible for anyone to learn some very simple ways to discuss elements of books independently of their enjoyment. These elements include such things as the characters (Are they flat or round? Static or dynamic? Do they have any epiphanies?) and their relationships, the setting and world building, the narrative perspective, symbols, the title, the tone, the style, the themes, and more. I know it's easy for anyone to learn to talk about these things because I have seen thousands of people do it -- my students. The funny thing is that most of my students are not readers and probably don't even like literature, but they all learn these concepts in a short time and produce coherent literary analyses. So, I think people who actually care about stories can also learn these simple concepts and apply them if they want to discuss or even rate a book beyond their enjoyment of it. I know I'm swimming against the current here, but I think moving beyond enjoyment to actually reviewing a book is possible for anyone. That is not to say that enjoyment is irrelevant or unimportant, but it's just one of many things that anyone can take into account when analyzing a book. Good luck figuring out your approach!
I'm with you, Philip. If I hear a booktuber (or anyone really) say they rate their books only on their enjoyment, I immediately tune them out. I do use star ratings on GR, but I also take many things into account for that rating.
Now if someone tells me up front "this is just a fun book to break up heavier books" they've been reading and had a good time, I assume that's based on enjoyment and it would naturally be a 4 or 5 star.
Is that clear as mud? 😂
@@Thecatladybooknook_PennyD Ha ha! Very clear! 😊
Any time I'm called an "elitist" with my music listening tastes, I just substitute "well educated!" It's hard to like the Jonas Brothers when you've heard Pavarotti sing Puccini. I hate when people push back at people with knowledge with that term. (Sorry, that triggered me a little).
These are very good points, Philip, and I would like to think in my own book reviewing journey over the last few years that I've been able to be less and less subjective with my assessments and more objective, or at least being able to accurately convey why a book made me feel a certain way. I also realize I've instinctively in my monthly wrap-ups tended to talk longer about books that I gave lower ratings, much as when I'm evaluating a music performance at one of my judging gigs, that I tend to give more feedback to less accomplished groups in order to justify my lower rating. It's an area of growth in book reviewing I'm currently working on, as I seem to be better equipped to explain why I didn't like a book more than why I love a book. Which I guess is an entirely different topic than where this started!
I love how you both review books, in particular Philips recent range of videos culminating in a different way to a top 10. For me it made good sense.
You are both very well read so I personally find it extra handy to know of other books that might do something as well as the book being reviewed, or perhaps better where a book has not rated as well as others.
The hype around book tok books makes my head spin, and defeats all point of GR ratings for me.
Eg sure give Acotar 5s if your criteria is mindless love triangles, set in fantasy/para worlds that deal with no difficult topics.
My biggest peeve is the lack of a set sub genre for the endless Angel and demon/vampire love bite style novels. Can we please please get them out of general fantasy 😂 And give that lot their own YA group too, so the rest of YA can also get a split from them ❤