The Orville is a hollo-novel written by The Doctor shortly after arriving back in the Alpha Quadrant and realizing that the Federation was greatly lacking in optimism and humor after years of the Dominion Wars and the Borg Threat.
Kevin Peterson the doctor from Star trek Voyager. He also plays alara kitans dad in Orville. OP is referencing, I'm guessing, the episode of Voyager where the doctor writes a story that is basically the adventures of Voyager. The story the doctor writes is obviously based on their adventures but the doctor is heroic and everyone is idiots, they demand he rewrites it so it's further removed from them.
He was easily spotted in 'Affliction' as he actually had a speaking role, but I can't seem to find him in 'The Forgotten'. Really cool to see him in Enterprise.
The Orville is actually TNG Continues. They are simply guarding against the evil ParaMorg Empire, lest Orville suffer the same fate as ST-TOS did at Axanar. Joking to deflect the unstoppable robo-lawyers is "Paramount", else they die with the fan films and the Roddenberry vision of the future.
I love both the old and the new Star Trek tbh. Arguably I think I'd say I love the newer entries more. I can't sit through even 1 episode of TOS, but Discovery is 10x easier for me to watch an entire season of.
Star Trek as it was originally envisioned and portrayed was a progressive and positive view of our future. The Orville delivers that to us Trekkies who want that positive aspiration.
@@hmich176 ill agree with you on ds9, but only for the dominion war part. i kinda lost interest during the dominion war. it just dragged out way too long. but voyager was extremely optimistic and positive throughout. i would also like to point out that all of the previous star treks had a LOT of humor in them. they were pretty funny shows overall.
Every week Kirk got into a fight when phasers on stun would have done the job, they had plenty of conflict between crew and captain but hey lets remember it as a feel good always moral show....but it wasn't
Orville is Star Trek. Snuck in as a parody, but it has the essence of Trek in the 90’s. They attack hard current issues in their episodes. It’s brilliant.
I like the show too, which leads to my worry. The show is on Fox, and they have a really bad track record with Sci-Fi shows. With the exception of the X-Files, no Sci-Fi show on Fox has lasted more than 2 seasons. I'm still mad about Firefly.
UPDATE: SEASON 2. A lot of the joking is gone this year so far. The Krill theme is expanding. You can't DISLIKE The Orville. You just can't. And it's continuing to get so much better. The follow-up Krill episode was perfect. That was a real peak. The porn addiction thing in a member of an all-male species took tremendous Chutzpah. ONE YEAR LATER: The Orville is officially the best television show since E.R. No contest. The cliffhanger was extraordinary, and really separated the show from TNG. People we were thinking Issac was the Data plugin. He is not. This was stunning and unsettling. And drew on our love of Data to shock us. Brilliant. BTW: ST: Disco is not a television show.
"YOU CAN'T DISLIKE IT" Laddie, I'll take that bet. 1 Seth is no leading man. 2 rewatching early seasons of Family guy reminded me of the reasons I dislike him as a writer, thimgs thay were GLARING in the first 5 episodes. 3 I kept falling asleep so I found that it was boring. I NEVER got past the episodes he was referring to. Compare that to all the Short Treks and the 2 seasons of Dsc which were ASTONISHINGLY GOOD. Yes Ik it's different, but as a Trek fan who went through the whole of Trek history it is more Trek than Seth cosplaying. 4th and finally, it tries and IMHO fails to get the lofty ideals it preaches. Making it bland
Just a little correction. When giving Seths character the command of the Orville, the admiral states, that he was the top of the top all the way through the academy. So he was pretty much the best of an entire generation of captains. It was his divorce that caused him to go in to a slump. But that issue is also resolved by the end of the pilot episode, effective bringing the character fully out of the slump he was in. So the whole hero captain thing doesnt come as fa out of left field as you make it sound in the video.
Rich guys have a history of putting themselves in the role of ultimate hero, seth Macfarlane is no different. He likes young girls, one of them left the orville after dating him, and he steals other artists ideas.
I love Orville. The jokes are coming along. They are fine for now. I still laugh and if the show makes me laugh, I believe the show is still objectively funny. The Captain is like every captain I have work for on any ship in the real world. To be a captain means that you are a "relate-able" person. Any captain that fails this criteria is swiftly replaced.
Macfarlane wanted to helm the next Star Trek series and he pitched it to CBS. but CBS passed and instead green-lit Discovery so he took it to Fox and added the comedic elements so that it would fall under fair use as a spoof.
@@MKDumas1981 It's very obvious that McFarlane's and Fox's lawyers reviewed the Axanar case so damn carefully and precisely and then determined exactly what they could and could not do legally.
@@jasontodd9 The two shows have little in common. _Axanar_ could make no convincing case for itself as fair use, parody or satire for its unlicensed use of the Star Trek property. _The Orville,_ well... it's pretty obvious where it falls there.
@@MegaZeta Why do you think it would have been bad to give him a Trek show? I think he would have stuck to the tradition of Star Trek canon. He had to twist Orville due to legal issues.
I've been a Star Trek fan for 40 years now. I've had my own Star Trek website for fifteen years, with tens of millions of views. I'm basically the stereotypical Trek fan. I absolutely love The Orville. Yes, it is a Star Trek show as far as I'm concerned - not literally, obviously, but certainly in spirit. Discovery, on the other hand... not so much. As far as I can see Discovery is essentially an act of deliberate vandalism perpetrated against the Star Trek universe.
Morten Sjøgren, Same. If it was just a new Sci-fi show I would've been fine with it, but calling it Star Trek makes it feel like somebody kicked me out of my house and redecorated. All the rooms are the same, but the contents feel so different that I feel alienated. I no longer had a home anymore, but then Orville opened its doors and gave me a place to stay. Is it home? Not yet, but it's welcoming and could become home in the future.
@@MortenSjgren this, exactly this, i think that although it is a decent show by itself and out of context, the biggest problem is that its trying to force a style and story that just doesnt suit the space its trying to fill. so a lot of the existing fanbase just cant help but feel that it doesnt belong. it may be star trek in name, but, no matter how much the producers insist that it is(and this is just getting downright annoying. really, who do they think they're kidding?), it really isnt star trek in spirit. the orville doesnt try to steal the star trek name or even many aspects of the star trek universe, but it certainly has that star trek spirit. i think that if you changed only the names and the ship designs and literally kept everything else the same, nobody would recognize discovery as star trek.
Steve, if you ever get a chance give "Red Dwarf" a look. The humor comes naturally from the characters, the storylines are almost always clever and original and it's simply one of the greatest SF TV series ever made. (At least the first 5 or 6 seasons). I'd love to hear your thoughts on the show.
It takes a minute to get the Red Dwarf humor... especially for an American. I started watching Red Dwarf as a teen in the 90’s, it took me quite a few episodes to really get the humor... Red Dwarf is definitely one of my FAVORITE shows.
Orville is TNG if it had a crew of real people as opposed to Roddenberrys' idealistic vision of society. STD is the reinvention of the wheel, where they go for a new concave rectangular design.
"Orville is TNG if ot had a crew of real people as opposed to Roddenberry's idealistic vision of society." I don't think that's quite it, close, but not quite. I think it's more, all we've seen seen si far are the A-list crews on _Star Trek,_ _The Orville_ gives us C- or D-list crew. They work and they do their best, but they are not the great ones that get into the history books.
I had heard that The Oville was the new Star Trek despite the humor, I began to see it with many doubts, but my GOD how good it turned out to be. I never thought I'd say this but they should put Seth MacFarlane in charge of making the new Star Trek series.
I love The Orville and I am very happy that it exists, but I do agree with the things you said about the jokes and Capt. Mercer. I wish Seth MacFarlane could see this and take the necessary notes. I'm hoping the show gains a certain level of maturity as it goes on. It has so much potential to be one of the best shows ever, I hope it's not wasted.
My problem with Discovery isn't that it differs from classical star trek. It's that it doesn't differ from generic SciFi. Name a popular piece of science fiction in the past 5 years that isn't dark, dangerous, extremely serious, non casual, and about war. There are some names... Not many. I love science fiction, but I don't like the darkness most of it has today. The Orville, alongside Rick and Morty (which isn't that kind of dark) are a breath of fresh air. In all its iterations, Star Trek always felt like a world I'd like to live in. It made me hopeful for the future. And I prefer the shows over the movies. I think the smaller scale of a tv show does Star Trek justice. We can actually see life in that future, not just a bunch of epic events. Discovery could just have all the direct references taken out, switch the visuals a little, and it could be marketed as a bunch of action SciFi films. No one would make the connection in that case. That's what it should be, not Star Trek.
The other bit of character-related humor that worked (and was hilarious) was the "dancing hombre" in the holodeck. The humor that doesn't work is the crude humor. That simply does not work within the context of this show. Fortunately, they cut way back in later episodes. One thing is for sure, season one of Orville is vastly better than season one of TNG. Many episodes have been top notch, and dealt with the subject matter in a very serious, balanced, respectful manner.
max bootstrap . It got so much better, I wonder if he had to sell it to Fox as a comedy and had to throw in the jokes in order for it to get picked up. It got more serious as time went on, and was quite enjoyable.
Steve Shives: You said that Star Trek fans don't like Discovery because they yearn for the "comfort food" of fun space adventures, warm comforting and friendly, with some social commentary thrown in. I couldn't disagree more. To even be Star Trek, a show must follow Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future: a humanity that has pretty much solved the problems of racism, slavery, and violent domination of others. Star Trek: Discovery hasn't even solved the problems of violence and asshole-ness in the workplace.
I disagree that Discovery is "too challenging". The biggest reason I stopped watching Discovery, and why I've been enjoying Orville, is because Discovery is an action show that frequently has forceful personalities for the sake of drama, but only occasionally raises interesting philosophical questions, while Orville and TNG build every single episode around an interesting philosophical question.
I really like The Orville. I want it to be Star Trek. I wish some billionaire would buy up all the Star Trek rights from CBS, Paramount, whoever - and allow Seth's Trek into the Federation. The "comedy" is because "parody" is protected in a landmark Supreme Court ruling that is separate from fair use because of the very specific ruling on "parody." Parody is extremely protected art even if it steals wholesale. I think they'll get more into the better humor and better, newer stories in the 2nd season. The jokes stopped *a lot* by season's end.
For the most part inhe second season the Orville figured out where to use the humor and where not to use it. It has been lacking humor in the third season but that worked for those specific episodes. Still the humor is what makes it different and hopefully there will be plenty to come after this third episode.
I read the pilot differently: His wife cheating on him effected his professional life. He was the last pick for the job because of how poorly he handled being cheated on, which is why his ex-wife's redemption is so strong. Not only does she still want the best for him, but she realized that she is to blame for him not making captain up until then -- and she fixed that
The Orville is much more refined and cohesive than TNG Season 1-2. It's also less about comedy than self awareness. Star Trek took itself very seriously and it's humans are a different species. Nobody ever used a toilet in all of TNG. There was no infidelity, or divorces. Perhaps it was just the times.
I’ll say this...the moment I saw Picard’s painting of the Enterprise, I knew I wanted to be a sci-fi painter. And the Star Trek universe became my second home. As time went on, and the series drifted farther from it was, I became less enameled with the newest iterations. It felt too far from home. Then came The Orville. The heart, the universe, and the humor....this feels like home. And the highlight of my career would be seeing an Orville painting in Mercer’s cabin - coming full circle. I love The Orville. It’s home for me.
By “comfort” do you mean entertaining? I watch TV shows to be entertained not irritated and annoyed. STD is a masterclass in irritation and annoyance. It certainly isn’t Trek. Want a good dark sci-fi show then watch “The Expanse”.
Since you brought it up-- I love Star Trek Continues! My daughter and I watched it immediately after we finished TOS. Despite some rough acting on the part of some of the amateur actors (not saying I could have done better mind you), it's unbelievably solidly written and directed and its production values are a perfect match for TOS. Their worst episodes are far, far better than the worst TOS episodes, and their best episodes give the best TOS episodes a run for their money. Plus, bonus, they undid "Turnabout Intruder," at least to some extent with "Embracing the Winds". As far as I'm concerned, TOS now has 90 episodes, not 79. Any TOS fan owes it to themselves to watch these all through at least once. :)
Glad to see that killing nearly everyone on the Krill ship last year finally did come back into the picture this year with some natural consequences. Happy to see this continuity.
SEE RANK I prefer Penny Johnson Jerald as Dr Claire Finn than as Kasidy Yates-Sisko (and every other role I've seen her in), this is her most likeable character. Overall a brilliant show that is closer to Gene Roddenberry's vision than STD.
Necro comment, heh, sorry. Just saw this video for the first time and OMG thank you SO MUCH for mentioning Star Trek Continues. I just watched the first 2 episodes and "Lolani" punched me in the gut more than once. I would really enjoy some videos from you reviewing or otherwise discussing Star Trek Continues... and perhaps other trek-related fan projects too.
This is kind of a random video to leave this comment but I just wanted to say that I stumbled upon the channel quite by accident, don't even recall what I was looking for, but I'm glad I did. As a massive Trek fan who has seen every movie and episode multiple times over as well as owning the blueprints to the Enterprise D I'm loving the channel. Interesting topics, thoughtful discussion with a wry sense of humour. Finding someone who has the kind of particular style of commentary I can watch for hours isn't as easy as one might think. I just wanted to say I love the channel, appreciate the good work and I'm hopping around randomly as I go through the back catalogue with brief stops to watch certain episodes that are mentioned.
One thing I love about The Orville is that while it's doing TNG style episodes, it's not limited by Star Trek canon. They're free to build their own universe. So they could go anywhere with this series.
Steve, You are entirely correct about Star Trek being "comfort food" for some of us. The harmony (for the most part) of the crews working together to solve problems wrapped up in a neat one or two-hour time frame is exactly what I want to see at the end of a long day; Not a season-long story arc that only gives me a single piece of the puzzle once a week. For me, it has been a long dry spell with television Star Trek starting with the Xindi arc in Enterprise. I really enjoyed the first season. Bottom line - if I wanted to watch complex, dramatic stories, featuring constant angst and fighting, with seemingly never-ending problems with no resolution by the end credits (much like this run-on sentence) - I would have no need for a TV. Real-life and social media have that covered in spades. What I really want is a continuation of what I already know. I don't want a TV show that looks and feels so different from everything I have grown to love for the past fifty years that everything I have known about it is now useless. Maybe that's prideful. Maybe I just don't like the change. Side note - I love your videos. Great sense of humor and open-mindedness. You hooked me on the one about Jellico.
I binge-watched the first six episodes of The Orville and was surprised by my very positive reaction to it. Yes, I can see its flaws, but as far as I'm concerned, it really is Star Trek. The older Star Trek series were flawed in similar ways, but I liked them, flaws and all. I would give Discovery a chance, but I'm pretty pissed off about the all-access thing. I may have to whittle down my subscriptions as it is. A lot of people would say, "It's not that much money." Oh, yeah? It looks like everyone wants to get in on what Netflix started. Subscription totals add up. I'm not paying that much for a single show, even if that show is (kinda?) Star Trek. I would consider watching the show anyway were it not for the angry Trekkie horde's disdain for it. I already hate what they've done to the Klingons. If Michael Burnham is that unlikable and the show destroys continuity, count me out. I'll get my Trek fix from The Orville.
Have seen neither. I "cut the cable" years ago. Although I have cable internet. Seen scenes from both. The Orville: Cute, lighthearted, likable characters, reminds me of Galaxy Quest. STD: OMG, WTF?!
Eric, you are correct. STD is "un-gettable" from clips. You cant "get it" from watching the entire series so far. It is STINO (Star Trek In Name Only). It may be better if they rip off a few more elements from the "Tardigrades" game, or reboot it to follow the Roddenberry paradigm. I agree with OMG, WTF. Do the weirded Klingons eat Tardigrades ? The Orville, on the other hand, is a WONDERFUL show. It would benefit if they didn't have to have as many of the obligatory puns, but it's a small price to pay to keep the Paramount Borg Robo-Lawyers off your back. I love the line when they destroyed the Krill ship: "BOOM! Bitch ! Now that's what I'm talking about!", concurrent with a happy-dance. Made me smile.
Love the Orville, Hate STD. I am a guy that LOVES Star Trek, I have seen every single second of every series and movie. Until STD. Discovery is NOT Star Trek. STD is the anti-star trek. Visually stunning, but sooooooooo dark and gloomy and terrible. Let me put it this way. I would love to live in the world of The Orville, I think I'd jump out of an airlock if I was forced to live in the world of STD.
I have the best description of the dichotomy of orville is compared to Discovery. Discovery is the officially licensed Trek version of Last Jedi. Where as the orville is Rise of Skywalker. At least in my comparison. This is why I love DSC.
Isn't it amazing how a show that respects a property and does its best to entertain and have characters the viewers can care about and relate to and have shows that does a good job presenting both or all sides of the subject of the show its why the Orville is great and STD is not.
We are now into season two and the Humour has been toned down I find with each episode it is improving and the Fan base is still there ….I hope it gets renewed for season 3 !
I actually don't think Discovery is morally dubious at all. It has a strong moral center and the choices characters make say a lot about them. But it's also premised on the notion that someone who has made a mistake can redeem themselves and if you don't believe that's ever possible, that people are always black hats or white hats forever, then you will never be able to get into the show. A prime example is the character of Sarek. There's no way you can know the character from TOS/TAS canon and say there's anything inaccurate about the way he's depicted in Discovery. Now we know that Sarek is a genuine hero. He's also pigheaded and stubborn. Discovery shines a light on these different sides of him. That's not moral dubiousness, but that is complexity and ambiguity. Just like in our real lives.
nice review. at the start of both this and discovery i wasn't expecting anything to be like the old star trek. so i enjoyed discovery's premier and was put off a bit by the comedy in orville... now i love the orville and making to the midseason finale of discovery i'm giving up for a bit on finding any character likeable or relatable - so may check a few episodes in season 2... it's not a bad time to be a star trek fan though - both have flaws but if you want something more like old star trek you have it and if you want something darker you have it, if you like both then its a bonus
Im not a hater of ST Discovery (even though I dont consider it a real ST) but had I need to pick one or the other then id pick Orville without hesitation
Any new thoughts? Some of your critiques have been directly addressed. I honestly teared up watching the Orville on a plane for the first time a few months back. This is Star Trek. And S2 has been really, really good.
The critics have been super unfair to The Orville, in my opinion. It's currently sitting at 5% from top critics on Rotten Tomatoes, which is crazy. So I'm more inclined to defend The Orville as a kind of "Star Trek underdog" since people don't seem to understand that it's not "Star Trek with fart jokes" or whatever, but is instead a dramedy with a lot of Trek attributes. I'm also liking Discovery, but it doesn't really need defending from critics.
Hum, can't say for others but I went fresh to Orville without knowing anything about it or STD. First 2 episodes had very off humor but the rest seemed fine. People complain about non character driven humor, but honestly, how can one really make a character driven humor when we don't know the characters yet? As the episodes came along the humor seemed to have gotten tuned down a bit, comes more from interactions with a gag thrown in here and there only this time it feels much less out of place. Is it the best thing since TNG? Probably not. Is it good on its own? I'd say it totally is.
I think Jack Nicholson put it best when Michael Keaton was not sure about playing Batman. Let the suit do most of the work, kid. Thats why I think Ed Mercer rises to be a good Captain not just a generic hero but the job dictates the character on the ship but his personal life still is real I like that
I'm a Trek fan as well. And I can see the similarities. But I get so sick of people wanting to see former Trek crew on The Orville. Why is that so important to people? IT'S NOT STAR TREK!!!!!! It's getting to the point where people are going to start complaining that there are no Klingons on The Orville. Or that Seth McFarlane isn't doing a spot on impersonation of Bill Shatner. For Christ sake people!! Let The Orville be The Orville!!!!!! I joined a FB Orville fan site but had to leave it because all people wanted to do was talk about which Trek characters should be guest stars on the Orville, or how The Orville was "the new Trek". God people . . . give it a fucking rest . . .
Something interesting. the best episodes have been directed by Star Trek alum. Brannon Braga directed About a Girl and Into The Fold Jonathan Frakes Directed Pria
Interesting take on these two shows. My view as a Star Trek fan from day one (yes I am old) is I have loved every incarnation of the Trek universe (even animated)....until now. I understand that the producers want to appeal to a younger audience with technology that they see as advancements from today, not from 20 years ago BUT my problem with STD goes beyond the high tech usage in the show. Established storylines and character species have been thrown out. And as hard as they are trying to shoehorn this show into the canon of Star Trek, it fails miserably. Now I will say it is a fair science fiction program (if they would knock off the JJ Abrams lens flare crap) just like Killjoys or Dark Matter! But then call it something that fits like "The Spinning Ship" etc. Conversely, The Orville is fantastic! Initially, Seth pushed the comedy element a bit too far, but it seems to have settled into being a great science fiction show with drama, social commentary, and humor that is not crammed down your throat with feminist SJW narratives. The Orville is what many of us hoped for in the Trek universe. Sadly I think the CBS/Paramount license crap has hurt the Trek franchise and the fandom, but they just want money. Frankly, The Orville will probably prosper more over STD and it does not stick you with a subscription fee. To that point, if The Orville WAS a pay-per-view I would probably pay it and not mind! It is that good. I hope that one day we see Star Trek again until then we have The Orville hopefully for many seasons!
I really like Orville and ST:DIS. Here's the thing to me, though. I've binge watched every Trek show, including Discovery, many times over since their original airings. Yes, in just the few months since Discovery ended, I've already rewatched the full series at least 3 times. Orville was entertaining and fun the first time. I tried to rewatch it a few weeks ago and couldn't get past the second episode. It's a "watch once and move on" kind of show. It's light entertainment with little need to go back and reabsorb the deeper meaning. It is what it is and you get everything you need the first time through. When season 2 comes out I will watch. And I suspect I'll watch it once and that's it. To me, Trek is deep and meaningful. Worth watching over and over and over and over again. Orville is not that.
I disagree that the comedy is thrown in. I've watched every episode. The comedy derives from science fiction "what if" situations that a Star Trek era would've encountered in real life.
The Orville "comedy" is a necessary facet of the show, to keep the ParaBorg robolawyers from destroying the Orville universe, like they did the ST-TOS universe, Axanar, and the Roddenberry vision. Look past the specifics of the statue, Mr. Bond. Consider it a similar cultural infraction to Westley Crusher disturbing a flower bed. The gist is to show how an instantaneous feedback, "true democracy" would operate. It's a reflection of our own internet-fed social media influences our political and social structure today. The Founders (USA, not Dominion) termed this "Mob Rule".
That was an encouraging review. It sounds like a good programme. So far, I’ve not seen it, because of those bad early reviews. The weaknesses of the episodic nature of The Orville could - to some extent - be overcome by having long narrative arcs, like the Xindi arc in Enterprise, which worked very well. ST does not have to be episodic, with all the action wrapped up within 40-50 minutes, and has often not been, as the 2-parter TNG 3.26-4.1 shows. The episodic nature of ST is arguably a strength, because it gives the writers the freedom to have a story take just one episode, be a two-parter (or more), or be told over an entire season. That flexibility ought to be good for creativity.
The Orville is relaxing whereas Discovery is intense. You need to almost psych yourself up to prepare to watch Discovery. With The Orville you can waft right in because it is funny and bright and feels familiar but new at the same time.
I Love The Orville its super Awesome and Funny!, can't stop watching it. it reminds me to TNG when i was a kid. in the other side Discovery is not as appetizing as preview Star Trek Series. dont get me wrong is nice and i download it and watch it, but its not like The Orville that i cant miss an episode!
The Orville and STD both started finding their legs in the second half of the season, writing improved on both shows, jokes improved on Orville, and, yes, consequences started to creep into later Orville episodes. Both shows are better than what they started. Each show seems to satisfy a certain Star Trek need, but I really both shows on their own merit.
I really like Orville. I'm not into re-makes but Orville is a throw back to ST-TNG. Some of the comedy is kinda forced, but you can tell their heart as actors and writers are in the right place. I appreciate that. Its not just an action show with laser fights and bad dialog.
Are you serious, you like STD as a Star Trek show? It is so antithetical to everything Star Trek is. I actually like Lorca, for who he is, but he's not a true Star Trek captain (and he's the most interesting character on the show). If you want true-to-form Star Trek, The Orville is your show; if you want random shoot-em-up sci-fi, then STD is a decent placebo... but it's not in any way Star Trek. They just didn't have enough creativity to create a new universe and make it appealing (like Farscape), so they bastardized an existing mythos. They should be shunned for that alone.
I would love to watch this show if it was almost anyone other than MacFarlane. Some actors have an ego so huge that you can't see the character they are playing.
I like The Orville. This show explores new topics, seeks out new ways to make us laugh, it boldly goes where no Star Trek Episodes has gone before. Plus, Bortis rocks.
I feel that The Orville is paying homage to ST:TNG without trying to live up to their ideals, which I love. When I first heard about it I was extremely worried because I was afraid Seth McFarland would s**t all over the idea of Star Trek...but I am pleasantly surprised how he has taken it and honored the ideal of what came before yet put a spin on it that works. In a way, if he was helming Insurrection with his idea from Orville I think Insurrection could've been way more palatable....just my opinion :)
Season 2 review? This was a pretty good video, ended up agreeing with you mostly and the humor has been toned down a bit since the first season. =) P.S. I am not too sure why you are hiding the like/dislike ratio. Since I agree with you about 90%, if you have less than 90% likes then consider this a 'Like'. =P
I just can't get on with discovery, I've tried but the show just seems to be Star Trek : Micheal Burnham, I have no issue with the main character being female but to me, star trek has always been about the crew coming together to solve problems in discovery it's all about the main star and to me that is just not star trek, I love the Orville, has much more of a "trek" feel than the new discovery.
I like the humor on two levels. First, a little satire on the old original Star Treks is just fun. My favorite one is not at all a "self aware running commentary on what's happening." It was a scene where the captains says (something like) open a channel, and he starts talking. Then Alara interrupts to say she didn't do it yet. That's not artificial. It's a little kidding at the originals where that never happens. But you can imagine that such things could happen in "reality". SECOND, the general kidding around attitude of the crew makes the "jokes" seem to be a natural part of the story. The fact that the captain is introduced as a bit of a screw-up, and picks a friend to pilot the ship who is also a bit of a loose cannon, makes their funny actions self-consistent and thereby easy to accept. Sure it reminds us that we're just watching a show, and the Orville isn't a real space ship. So what. Let's have Orville run for many seasons and it will also evolve.
Fox is pretty much the only one left without a Sci-Fi franchise, until now. I love "The Orville" Universe and hope Fox continues with spin-offs and movies...
To me a big problem with Discovery is CBS. You have to sign up for their streaming service to watch it and honestly, I already pay for MULTIPLE streaming services So.... it is not worth it to me. The Orville is a good show and the second season so far has been even better than the first
I wonder if your observations about the Krill @ 17:00 - 18:30 have changed during the second season, with Mercer having finally taken steps in his romantic life to move on from Kelly, only to discover his love interest is none other than the very Krill survivor who pronounced his condemnation at the end of that fist season episode. You are either extremely prescient or the Orville writers are watching you.
1st season of any of the STs were underwhelming. On the other hand there is zero TV that is even close other than the Orville. I am in it for the long haul.
I want to make a quick comment that I take some issue with your use of the word "comforting." Granted, there's a sense of comfort in having something like our old Star Trek (familiarity), and maybe some find the utopian-ish world of Star Trek a comfort as well. However, the value of Star Trek's utopia-like Federation and optimism is not for comfort, but for INSPIRATION. It's not supposed to lull you into feeling like the future could turn out OK, it's about inspiring you to HELP MAKE that future happen, and that's how Star Trek has contributed most to human society. On the other sense of comfort though, it didn't have to be TNG-like. ALL previous Star Trek are united under canon design and continuity (though not perfect). TOS is reaffirmed in TNG and DS9. ENT reaffirms TNG in the last episode. Discovery stands alone and upends everything. It could have been ENT-like and it would have been fine, but it's a reboot trying to lie to us that it's not - and Star Trek was never about pretending the audience was stupid.
I think you have misinterpreted Mercer's situation in the first episode. Certainly the idea was given that this was a sort of average crew, on an average, lackluster ship. However, the feel about Mercer was that Kelly ruined the career of an up and coming officer, the divorce is what got his career off-course, and why Union leadership wasn't rushing to give him his own command. Whereas Kelly saw who he really was, and who he was on track to become before the divorce. So she went to bat for him, and got him a mediocre command post (which was about the only thing command was willing to give to him after his post-divorce behavior), and now he is able to pull out of the divorce slump, and prove himself as a good captain. Because he has such a mediocre command, he doesn't get a lot of top-notch officers to pick from, but Kelly requested it, the doctor requested it, and who knows why the Orville got Isaac, that one is a bit of a mystery. The rest of the characters were assigned, with the exception of the helmsman, who is an underachiever, but has a passion and skill for flying, so a mediocre person, perhaps, but not a mediocre pilot. So in that sense, I think you really missed who Mercer is. I don't think it was missing from the story-line, just perhaps too subtle for everyone to pick up on from day one. Maybe if you go back and rewatch season one, you will see it the way I see it, where he really was a bright young officer who should have moved up the ranks fairly well, maybe not top of the top, like Picard, but also not mediocre. Just the affair and divorce threw him off track professionally, and that subsequent slump would have ruined his career if his ex-wife hadn't got to bat for him behind the scenes, which comes up in one of the mid-season episodes, I forget which one. As for the jokes sometimes feeling unnatural and out of place, I agree, but I also think it is pretty good about keeping the jokes to a minimum. I had expected a lot less series a series from MacFarlane, but I really think he has pulled it off. One ST writer says that the comedy aspect has to be there to keep the Orville in "satire" status, to avoid copyright infringement issues. So if I have to endure a few ill-conceived, or ill-placed jokes to get more of what I loved from TNG, DS9, Voyager, and to an extent a little Babylon 5... well, I say keep the jokes coming and keep The Orville on the air and out of court! Concerning Discovery, it breaks many of the mandates given by Roddenberry, it doesn't follow the spirit of the optimistic future where conflict and hate is nearly eradicated in humanity and most of its advanced allies, and conflict comes from outside, from ignorant species, and knowledge and tolerance can really solve all problems. Star Trek was a very optimistic concept, and everything before Discovery was very optimistic, even through wars they were able to hold on to their optimism in TNG, DS9, and Voyager. Discovery is like a bleak, dark future, filled the all the exact same problems in humanity that we still have today, nobody has learned anything the past few hundred years. STD really should have been some sort of DC/Marvel universe type series called simply: "Michael Burnham", or "Guardians of the Quadrant" or something, and not borrowed ST institutional names and designations and patterns, but just been it's own little space adventure in it's own right. I can enjoy watching STD, but it always grinds on my mind that they are trying to peddle it as more Star Trek. I haven't stopped watching it yet, but I don't enjoy it nearly as much as the Orville. Hopefully Discovery will improve in time.
The Orville is way more Star Trek. The Orville has their shit together. This show is so much fun to watch. Steve the show is funny. All the jokes land if you have a sense of humor Steve. I got to say I disagree with your criticism of the show. In an episodic show the characters don't usually carry over the emotion of the last week's episode. Each show is it's own episode. Discovery just pisses me off. You say not to compare the two shows. I think they should be compared to each other. Discovery writing and effects are terrible. Discovery does not have to be Star Trek but they should be expected to have good special effects and good writing. The characters are not people you want to know. The effects are hard to see. Nothing is consistent with Star Trek history as we know it. The Klingon make up looks fake. It is obvious they have face masks over their heads. At this point there is no comparison between Orville and Discovery. Sorry Orville is fantastic. I don't see the flaws that you bring up Steve. Discovery on the other hand is a huge mess. It is Discovery that does not have it's legs yet.
The Orville is a hollo-novel written by The Doctor shortly after arriving back in the Alpha Quadrant and realizing that the Federation was greatly lacking in optimism and humor after years of the Dominion Wars and the Borg Threat.
That's why he writes himself in as a character from time to time. This is actually such a fun idea you have here.
I second that
Omg it's Jake Sisko's saga. It's Canon
The Doctor. Doctor Who?
Kevin Peterson the doctor from Star trek Voyager. He also plays alara kitans dad in Orville.
OP is referencing, I'm guessing, the episode of Voyager where the doctor writes a story that is basically the adventures of Voyager. The story the doctor writes is obviously based on their adventures but the doctor is heroic and everyone is idiots, they demand he rewrites it so it's further removed from them.
Seth Macfarlane is also technically a Star Trek alum, as he was a crew member in Enterprise.
Realy? in enterprise,off to search i go
I specifically came to the comments looking to see who else would point out this fact.
He was easily spotted in 'Affliction' as he actually had a speaking role, but I can't seem to find him in 'The Forgotten'. Really cool to see him in Enterprise.
OK, I totally missed that!
I gotta be honest, when I started watching The Orville it gave me those feels I miss from watching TNG and DS9.
_Deep Space Nine_ could be funny, but the humor grew organically from the characters. It doesn't feel much like _The Orville_ to me.
I don't give a shit what anyone says, this is easily the best episode of Not Even Not Actually Trek Actually.
Its like STNG had a baby with Galaxy Quest.
TheAtheistPaladin it’s no where near that good
More Like TNG had a baby with M*A*S*H
Hmm I'd say it's STNG got run-tacled by Red Dwarf! :P
The Orville is actually TNG Continues. They are simply guarding against the evil ParaMorg Empire, lest Orville suffer the same fate as ST-TOS did at Axanar. Joking to deflect the unstoppable robo-lawyers is "Paramount", else they die with the fan films and the Roddenberry vision of the future.
I was thinking more Red Dwarf than Galaxyquest.
Is The Orville the New Star Trek?
No, it is the old Star Trek. The one we love.
And that right there is you missing the point.
I love both the old and the new Star Trek tbh. Arguably I think I'd say I love the newer entries more. I can't sit through even 1 episode of TOS, but Discovery is 10x easier for me to watch an entire season of.
Star Trek as it was originally envisioned and portrayed was a progressive and positive view of our future. The Orville delivers that to us Trekkies who want that positive aspiration.
Then I'm sure you disliked Deep Space 9, and Voyager. And Season 3 of Enterprise.
Voyager was positive and so was Deep Space 9 up until the dominion war.
@@hmich176 ill agree with you on ds9, but only for the dominion war part. i kinda lost interest during the dominion war. it just dragged out way too long. but voyager was extremely optimistic and positive throughout. i would also like to point out that all of the previous star treks had a LOT of humor in them. they were pretty funny shows overall.
Every week Kirk got into a fight when phasers on stun would have done the job, they had plenty of conflict between crew and captain but hey lets remember it as a feel good always moral show....but it wasn't
@@hmich176 Never liked DS9, Voyager was fine. Enterprise was very variable with some ponderous arcs that were boring.
Orville is Star Trek. Snuck in as a parody, but it has the essence of Trek in the 90’s. They attack hard current issues in their episodes. It’s brilliant.
I like the show too, which leads to my worry. The show is on Fox, and they have a really bad track record with Sci-Fi shows. With the exception of the X-Files, no Sci-Fi show on Fox has lasted more than 2 seasons. I'm still mad about Firefly.
However, it is a Seth MacFarlane show and they can't get enough of him.
It just got renewed for season 2. It's pretty early on so that's a good sign.
It's been renewed for a second season.
We're all still mad about Firefly.
Hey, Sliders was on Fox and it ran for 7 seasons.
UPDATE: SEASON 2. A lot of the joking is gone this year so far. The Krill theme is expanding. You can't DISLIKE The Orville. You just can't. And it's continuing to get so much better. The follow-up Krill episode was perfect. That was a real peak. The porn addiction thing in a member of an all-male species took tremendous Chutzpah.
ONE YEAR LATER: The Orville is officially the best television show since E.R. No contest. The cliffhanger was extraordinary, and really separated the show from TNG. People we were thinking Issac was the Data plugin. He is not. This was stunning and unsettling. And drew on our love of Data to shock us. Brilliant.
BTW: ST: Disco is not a television show.
"You can't DISLIKE The Orville. You just can't."
Well, I hate it.
"YOU CAN'T DISLIKE IT"
Laddie, I'll take that bet. 1 Seth is no leading man. 2 rewatching early seasons of Family guy reminded me of the reasons I dislike him as a writer, thimgs thay were GLARING in the first 5 episodes. 3 I kept falling asleep so I found that it was boring. I NEVER got past the episodes he was referring to. Compare that to all the Short Treks and the 2 seasons of Dsc which were ASTONISHINGLY GOOD. Yes Ik it's different, but as a Trek fan who went through the whole of Trek history it is more Trek than Seth cosplaying. 4th and finally, it tries and IMHO fails to get the lofty ideals it preaches. Making it bland
Just a little correction. When giving Seths character the command of the Orville, the admiral states, that he was the top of the top all the way through the academy. So he was pretty much the best of an entire generation of captains.
It was his divorce that caused him to go in to a slump. But that issue is also resolved by the end of the pilot episode, effective bringing the character fully out of the slump he was in. So the whole hero captain thing doesnt come as fa out of left field as you make it sound in the video.
Rich guys have a history of putting themselves in the role of ultimate hero, seth Macfarlane is no different. He likes young girls, one of them left the orville after dating him, and he steals other artists ideas.
I love Orville.
The jokes are coming along. They are fine for now. I still laugh and if the show makes me laugh, I believe the show is still objectively funny.
The Captain is like every captain I have work for on any ship in the real world. To be a captain means that you are a "relate-able" person. Any captain that fails this criteria is swiftly replaced.
Do you find Family Guy funny?
@@paulmuaddib451 Isn't Humor subjective?
Macfarlane wanted to helm the next Star Trek series and he pitched it to CBS. but CBS passed and instead green-lit Discovery so he took it to Fox and added the comedic elements so that it would fall under fair use as a spoof.
ja knadle I also think he had to sell it as a comedy to get Fox onboard, cause they expect him to stay in his lane.
@@MKDumas1981 It's very obvious that McFarlane's and Fox's lawyers reviewed the Axanar case so damn carefully and precisely and then determined exactly what they could and could not do legally.
I like a lot of Macfarlane's shows. I also think it would have been a bad idea to give him a Star Trek TV series.
@@jasontodd9 The two shows have little in common. _Axanar_ could make no convincing case for itself as fair use, parody or satire for its unlicensed use of the Star Trek property. _The Orville,_ well... it's pretty obvious where it falls there.
@@MegaZeta Why do you think it would have been bad to give him a Trek show? I think he would have stuck to the tradition of Star Trek canon. He had to twist Orville due to legal issues.
I've been a Star Trek fan for 40 years now. I've had my own Star Trek website for fifteen years, with tens of millions of views. I'm basically the stereotypical Trek fan.
I absolutely love The Orville. Yes, it is a Star Trek show as far as I'm concerned - not literally, obviously, but certainly in spirit.
Discovery, on the other hand... not so much. As far as I can see Discovery is essentially an act of deliberate vandalism perpetrated against the Star Trek universe.
I like Discovery, but I think it would be a much better show, if it was set in a new universe.
Morten Sjøgren, Same. If it was just a new Sci-fi show I would've been fine with it, but calling it Star Trek makes it feel like somebody kicked me out of my house and redecorated. All the rooms are the same, but the contents feel so different that I feel alienated. I no longer had a home anymore, but then Orville opened its doors and gave me a place to stay. Is it home? Not yet, but it's welcoming and could become home in the future.
I know what Star Trek website I'm not visiting any more. Outright idiocy.
Well said
@@MortenSjgren this, exactly this, i think that although it is a decent show by itself and out of context, the biggest problem is that its trying to force a style and story that just doesnt suit the space its trying to fill. so a lot of the existing fanbase just cant help but feel that it doesnt belong. it may be star trek in name, but, no matter how much the producers insist that it is(and this is just getting downright annoying. really, who do they think they're kidding?), it really isnt star trek in spirit. the orville doesnt try to steal the star trek name or even many aspects of the star trek universe, but it certainly has that star trek spirit. i think that if you changed only the names and the ship designs and literally kept everything else the same, nobody would recognize discovery as star trek.
The scene where the missing leg falls from the ceiling was funny too. It brought both of the story lines together.
A video about a TV show that is balanced, nuanced, generally positive and makes some good points. Is this even UA-cam?
Steve never fails to be lucid and balanced.
Steve, if you ever get a chance give "Red Dwarf" a look. The humor comes naturally from the characters, the storylines are almost always clever and original and it's simply one of the greatest SF TV series ever made. (At least the first 5 or 6 seasons). I'd love to hear your thoughts on the show.
Rimmmmeeerrrr!!! Been hooked since 1989...
It takes a minute to get the Red Dwarf humor... especially for an American. I started watching Red Dwarf as a teen in the 90’s, it took me quite a few episodes to really get the humor... Red Dwarf is definitely one of my FAVORITE shows.
I got my Bronze Swimming Certificate
Red Dwarf is what Star Trek would have been if the British had written it.
Thought my time here I have come to regard you all as people I've met" best red dwarf quote ever.
Orville is TNG if it had a crew of real people as opposed to Roddenberrys' idealistic vision of society. STD is the reinvention of the wheel, where they go for a new concave rectangular design.
"Orville is TNG if ot had a crew of real people as opposed to Roddenberry's idealistic vision of society."
I don't think that's quite it, close, but not quite. I think it's more, all we've seen seen si far are the A-list crews on _Star Trek,_ _The Orville_ gives us C- or D-list crew. They work and they do their best, but they are not the great ones that get into the history books.
@Mike Forti don't forget the crew member that must return home once per year, to pee...lol
Wait. Star Trek: DS9 is the reinvention of the wheel?
I had heard that The Oville was the new Star Trek despite the humor, I began to see it with many doubts, but my GOD how good it turned out to be. I never thought I'd say this but they should put Seth MacFarlane in charge of making the new Star Trek series.
The Orville, the best Star Trek show since Voyager.
I love The Orville and I am very happy that it exists, but I do agree with the things you said about the jokes and Capt. Mercer. I wish Seth MacFarlane could see this and take the necessary notes. I'm hoping the show gains a certain level of maturity as it goes on. It has so much potential to be one of the best shows ever, I hope it's not wasted.
My problem with Discovery isn't that it differs from classical star trek.
It's that it doesn't differ from generic SciFi. Name a popular piece of science fiction in the past 5 years that isn't dark, dangerous, extremely serious, non casual, and about war. There are some names... Not many. I love science fiction, but I don't like the darkness most of it has today. The Orville, alongside Rick and Morty (which isn't that kind of dark) are a breath of fresh air. In all its iterations, Star Trek always felt like a world I'd like to live in. It made me hopeful for the future. And I prefer the shows over the movies. I think the smaller scale of a tv show does Star Trek justice. We can actually see life in that future, not just a bunch of epic events.
Discovery could just have all the direct references taken out, switch the visuals a little, and it could be marketed as a bunch of action SciFi films. No one would make the connection in that case. That's what it should be, not Star Trek.
The other bit of character-related humor that worked (and was hilarious) was the "dancing hombre" in the holodeck. The humor that doesn't work is the crude humor. That simply does not work within the context of this show. Fortunately, they cut way back in later episodes. One thing is for sure, season one of Orville is vastly better than season one of TNG. Many episodes have been top notch, and dealt with the subject matter in a very serious, balanced, respectful manner.
max bootstrap . It got so much better, I wonder if he had to sell it to Fox as a comedy and had to throw in the jokes in order for it to get picked up. It got more serious as time went on, and was quite enjoyable.
It is intended as a satire, and as a huge STNG fan, i love it.
Steve Shives: You said that Star Trek fans don't like Discovery because they yearn for the "comfort food" of fun space adventures, warm comforting and friendly, with some social commentary thrown in. I couldn't disagree more. To even be Star Trek, a show must follow Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future: a humanity that has pretty much solved the problems of racism, slavery, and violent domination of others. Star Trek: Discovery hasn't even solved the problems of violence and asshole-ness in the workplace.
I disagree that Discovery is "too challenging". The biggest reason I stopped watching Discovery, and why I've been enjoying Orville, is because Discovery is an action show that frequently has forceful personalities for the sake of drama, but only occasionally raises interesting philosophical questions, while Orville and TNG build every single episode around an interesting philosophical question.
I really like The Orville. I want it to be Star Trek.
I wish some billionaire would buy up all the Star Trek rights from CBS, Paramount, whoever - and allow Seth's Trek into the Federation.
The "comedy" is because "parody" is protected in a landmark Supreme Court ruling that is separate from fair use because of the very specific ruling on "parody."
Parody is extremely protected art even if it steals wholesale. I think they'll get more into the better humor and better, newer stories in the 2nd season.
The jokes stopped *a lot* by season's end.
The second season is much better. They dialed down some of the "tacked" on humor it seems.
That said, I did like the first season. The second season is just better.
For the most part inhe second season the Orville figured out where to use the humor and where not to use it. It has been lacking humor in the third season but that worked for those specific episodes. Still the humor is what makes it different and hopefully there will be plenty to come after this third episode.
I read the pilot differently:
His wife cheating on him effected his professional life.
He was the last pick for the job because of how poorly he handled being cheated on, which is why his ex-wife's redemption is so strong.
Not only does she still want the best for him, but she realized that she is to blame for him not making captain up until then -- and she fixed that
I like The Orville. Wasn't sure about it at first but grew into it.
100% how I felt, it nestled some really good sci-fi in it too in the later episodes, something I'm glad I stuck around for.
Squirrel Darling they definitely settled I and got more comfortable with their characters and what they were wanting to do.
The Orville is much more refined and cohesive than TNG Season 1-2. It's also less about comedy than self awareness. Star Trek took itself very seriously and it's humans are a different species. Nobody ever used a toilet in all of TNG. There was no infidelity, or divorces. Perhaps it was just the times.
The Orville is what everyone who wants to make their own Trek fan production wishes they could do.
I’ll say this...the moment I saw Picard’s painting of the Enterprise, I knew I wanted to be a sci-fi painter. And the Star Trek universe became my second home. As time went on, and the series drifted farther from it was, I became less enameled with the newest iterations. It felt too far from home.
Then came The Orville. The heart, the universe, and the humor....this feels like home. And the highlight of my career would be seeing an Orville painting in Mercer’s cabin - coming full circle. I love The Orville. It’s home for me.
Killing all the Krill on the ship WAS picked up later on. I personally think the Krill look like the lovechild of a Klingon and a Jem-hadar.
By “comfort” do you mean entertaining? I watch TV shows to be entertained not irritated and annoyed. STD is a masterclass in irritation and annoyance. It certainly isn’t Trek. Want a good dark sci-fi show then watch “The Expanse”.
It's a comedy made by a huge Star Trek fan. It's funny. It's very good.
Since you brought it up-- I love Star Trek Continues! My daughter and I watched it immediately after we finished TOS. Despite some rough acting on the part of some of the amateur actors (not saying I could have done better mind you), it's unbelievably solidly written and directed and its production values are a perfect match for TOS. Their worst episodes are far, far better than the worst TOS episodes, and their best episodes give the best TOS episodes a run for their money. Plus, bonus, they undid "Turnabout Intruder," at least to some extent with "Embracing the Winds". As far as I'm concerned, TOS now has 90 episodes, not 79. Any TOS fan owes it to themselves to watch these all through at least once. :)
Glad to see that killing nearly everyone on the Krill ship last year finally did come back into the picture this year with some natural consequences. Happy to see this continuity.
SEE RANK
I prefer Penny Johnson Jerald as Dr Claire Finn than as Kasidy Yates-Sisko (and every other role I've seen her in), this is her most likeable character. Overall a brilliant show that is closer to Gene Roddenberry's vision than STD.
Necro comment, heh, sorry. Just saw this video for the first time and OMG thank you SO MUCH for mentioning Star Trek Continues. I just watched the first 2 episodes and "Lolani" punched me in the gut more than once. I would really enjoy some videos from you reviewing or otherwise discussing Star Trek Continues... and perhaps other trek-related fan projects too.
This is kind of a random video to leave this comment but I just wanted to say that I stumbled upon the channel quite by accident, don't even recall what I was looking for, but I'm glad I did. As a massive Trek fan who has seen every movie and episode multiple times over as well as owning the blueprints to the Enterprise D I'm loving the channel. Interesting topics, thoughtful discussion with a wry sense of humour. Finding someone who has the kind of particular style of commentary I can watch for hours isn't as easy as one might think. I just wanted to say I love the channel, appreciate the good work and I'm hopping around randomly as I go through the back catalogue with brief stops to watch certain episodes that are mentioned.
One thing I love about The Orville is that while it's doing TNG style episodes, it's not limited by Star Trek canon. They're free to build their own universe. So they could go anywhere with this series.
Steve,
You are entirely correct about Star Trek being "comfort food" for some of us. The harmony (for the most part) of the crews working together to solve problems wrapped up in a neat one or two-hour time frame is exactly what I want to see at the end of a long day; Not a season-long story arc that only gives me a single piece of the puzzle once a week. For me, it has been a long dry spell with television Star Trek starting with the Xindi arc in Enterprise. I really enjoyed the first season.
Bottom line - if I wanted to watch complex, dramatic stories, featuring constant angst and fighting, with seemingly never-ending problems with no resolution by the end credits (much like this run-on sentence) - I would have no need for a TV. Real-life and social media have that covered in spades.
What I really want is a continuation of what I already know. I don't want a TV show that looks and feels so different from everything I have grown to love for the past fifty years that everything I have known about it is now useless. Maybe that's prideful. Maybe I just don't like the change.
Side note - I love your videos. Great sense of humor and open-mindedness. You hooked me on the one about Jellico.
I binge-watched the first six episodes of The Orville and was surprised by my very positive reaction to it. Yes, I can see its flaws, but as far as I'm concerned, it really is Star Trek. The older Star Trek series were flawed in similar ways, but I liked them, flaws and all.
I would give Discovery a chance, but I'm pretty pissed off about the all-access thing. I may have to whittle down my subscriptions as it is. A lot of people would say, "It's not that much money." Oh, yeah? It looks like everyone wants to get in on what Netflix started. Subscription totals add up. I'm not paying that much for a single show, even if that show is (kinda?) Star Trek. I would consider watching the show anyway were it not for the angry Trekkie horde's disdain for it. I already hate what they've done to the Klingons. If Michael Burnham is that unlikable and the show destroys continuity, count me out. I'll get my Trek fix from The Orville.
Have seen neither. I "cut the cable" years ago. Although I have cable internet. Seen scenes from both. The Orville: Cute, lighthearted, likable characters, reminds me of Galaxy Quest. STD: OMG, WTF?!
The Orville is free to stream on the fox website if you are in the USA.
The orville is free on hulu
Eric, you are correct. STD is "un-gettable" from clips. You cant "get it" from watching the entire series so far. It is STINO (Star Trek In Name Only). It may be better if they rip off a few more elements from the "Tardigrades" game, or reboot it to follow the Roddenberry paradigm. I agree with OMG, WTF.
Do the weirded Klingons eat Tardigrades ?
The Orville, on the other hand, is a WONDERFUL show. It would benefit if they didn't have to have as many of the obligatory puns, but it's a small price to pay to keep the Paramount Borg Robo-Lawyers off your back. I love the line when they destroyed the Krill ship: "BOOM! Bitch ! Now that's what I'm talking about!", concurrent with a happy-dance. Made me smile.
Love the Orville, Hate STD. I am a guy that LOVES Star Trek, I have seen every single second of every series and movie. Until STD. Discovery is NOT Star Trek. STD is the anti-star trek. Visually stunning, but sooooooooo dark and gloomy and terrible. Let me put it this way. I would love to live in the world of The Orville, I think I'd jump out of an airlock if I was forced to live in the world of STD.
Ditto.
I have the best description of the dichotomy of orville is compared to Discovery. Discovery is the officially licensed Trek version of Last Jedi. Where as the orville is Rise of Skywalker. At least in my comparison. This is why I love DSC.
Isn't it amazing how a show that respects a property and does its best to entertain and have characters the viewers can care about and relate to and have shows that does a good job presenting both or all sides of the subject of the show its why the Orville is great and STD is not.
The Leg Moment was the biggest laugh I had during the whole show.
I have to say, I think the humor is spot on. I think the humor is Star Trek fan specific.
We are now into season two and the Humour has been toned down I find with each episode it is improving and the Fan base is still there ….I hope it gets renewed for season 3 !
Orville is the "old Star Trek", while Discovery is the "new Star Trek".
I think most people can agree on that :)
Star Trek Discovery is a lot more like Battlestar Galactica or Stargate: Universe than Star Trek. It is moody, dark, and morally dubious.
I actually don't think Discovery is morally dubious at all. It has a strong moral center and the choices characters make say a lot about them. But it's also premised on the notion that someone who has made a mistake can redeem themselves and if you don't believe that's ever possible, that people are always black hats or white hats forever, then you will never be able to get into the show. A prime example is the character of Sarek. There's no way you can know the character from TOS/TAS canon and say there's anything inaccurate about the way he's depicted in Discovery. Now we know that Sarek is a genuine hero. He's also pigheaded and stubborn. Discovery shines a light on these different sides of him. That's not moral dubiousness, but that is complexity and ambiguity. Just like in our real lives.
+MKDumas1981 Wow. That's... wow.
Oh, it's not entertainment you say, rather more like real life.
Gotcha! You one of those that ..... "You can't handle the truth." ?
Unlike Battlestar Galactica, STD is abysmal on every level but effects.
If discovery was a prime timeline mirror universe series, i would have belived it.
nice review. at the start of both this and discovery i wasn't expecting anything to be like the old star trek. so i enjoyed discovery's premier and was put off a bit by the comedy in orville... now i love the orville and making to the midseason finale of discovery i'm giving up for a bit on finding any character likeable or relatable - so may check a few episodes in season 2... it's not a bad time to be a star trek fan though - both have flaws but if you want something more like old star trek you have it and if you want something darker you have it, if you like both then its a bonus
Absolutely love the light mood and great story telling of the show :)
Im not a hater of ST Discovery (even though I dont consider it a real ST) but had I need to pick one or the other then id pick Orville without hesitation
You should do an update on this now that we are in season two. Killings the Krill crew did have an effect later on.
Any new thoughts? Some of your critiques have been directly addressed. I honestly teared up watching the Orville on a plane for the first time a few months back. This is Star Trek. And S2 has been really, really good.
The Orville is one of my best new shows on air. Got the first season already on dvd.
The critics have been super unfair to The Orville, in my opinion. It's currently sitting at 5% from top critics on Rotten Tomatoes, which is crazy. So I'm more inclined to defend The Orville as a kind of "Star Trek underdog" since people don't seem to understand that it's not "Star Trek with fart jokes" or whatever, but is instead a dramedy with a lot of Trek attributes.
I'm also liking Discovery, but it doesn't really need defending from critics.
I only saw the first episode, but to me it really did seem like "Star Trek with fart jokes."
So fart jokes offend you but badly written characters and stories meant to be dark appeal more to you?
Hum, can't say for others but I went fresh to Orville without knowing anything about it or STD. First 2 episodes had very off humor but the rest seemed fine. People complain about non character driven humor, but honestly, how can one really make a character driven humor when we don't know the characters yet?
As the episodes came along the humor seemed to have gotten tuned down a bit, comes more from interactions with a gag thrown in here and there only this time it feels much less out of place.
Is it the best thing since TNG? Probably not. Is it good on its own? I'd say it totally is.
Not one fart joke in the show so far. Just sayin'
I can't help but think someone met the critics in dark bars and passed a little brown envelopes under the table, with a knowing nod and a wink.
I think Jack Nicholson put it best when Michael Keaton was not sure about playing Batman. Let the suit do most of the work, kid. Thats why I think Ed Mercer rises to be a good Captain not just a generic hero but the job dictates the character on the ship but his personal life still is real I like that
The humor in the Orville bother me much less than the horrible action/drama/blockbuster way in Star Trek Discovery
I'm a Trek fan as well. And I can see the similarities. But I get so sick of people wanting to see former Trek crew on The Orville. Why is that so important to people? IT'S NOT STAR TREK!!!!!! It's getting to the point where people are going to start complaining that there are no Klingons on The Orville. Or that Seth McFarlane isn't doing a spot on impersonation of Bill Shatner. For Christ sake people!! Let The Orville be The Orville!!!!!! I joined a FB Orville fan site but had to leave it because all people wanted to do was talk about which Trek characters should be guest stars on the Orville, or how The Orville was "the new Trek". God people . . . give it a fucking rest . . .
I think it's because a lot of people don't like STD and they are pulling for Orville. I agree with them.
Remember the show "Quark" from 1977 or so? I say "Quark" is the spiritual ancestor to "The Orville".
It was cheesy, but I loved Quark. A space going garbage scow was great and the crew was as messed up as much as that would imply.
Something interesting. the best episodes have been directed by Star Trek alum.
Brannon Braga directed About a Girl and Into The Fold
Jonathan Frakes Directed Pria
Interesting take on these two shows. My view as a Star Trek fan from day one (yes I am old) is I have loved every incarnation of the Trek universe (even animated)....until now. I understand that the producers want to appeal to a younger audience with technology that they see as advancements from today, not from 20 years ago BUT my problem with STD goes beyond the high tech usage in the show. Established storylines and character species have been thrown out. And as hard as they are trying to shoehorn this show into the canon of Star Trek, it fails miserably. Now I will say it is a fair science fiction program (if they would knock off the JJ Abrams lens flare crap) just like Killjoys or Dark Matter! But then call it something that fits like "The Spinning Ship" etc. Conversely, The Orville is fantastic! Initially, Seth pushed the comedy element a bit too far, but it seems to have settled into being a great science fiction show with drama, social commentary, and humor that is not crammed down your throat with feminist SJW narratives. The Orville is what many of us hoped for in the Trek universe. Sadly I think the CBS/Paramount license crap has hurt the Trek franchise and the fandom, but they just want money. Frankly, The Orville will probably prosper more over STD and it does not stick you with a subscription fee. To that point, if The Orville WAS a pay-per-view I would probably pay it and not mind! It is that good. I hope that one day we see Star Trek again until then we have The Orville hopefully for many seasons!
I'm amazed you didn't mention that Seth was in a few episodes of Enterprise
Gosh i missed that series
I really like Orville and ST:DIS. Here's the thing to me, though. I've binge watched every Trek show, including Discovery, many times over since their original airings. Yes, in just the few months since Discovery ended, I've already rewatched the full series at least 3 times. Orville was entertaining and fun the first time. I tried to rewatch it a few weeks ago and couldn't get past the second episode. It's a "watch once and move on" kind of show. It's light entertainment with little need to go back and reabsorb the deeper meaning. It is what it is and you get everything you need the first time through. When season 2 comes out I will watch. And I suspect I'll watch it once and that's it. To me, Trek is deep and meaningful. Worth watching over and over and over and over again. Orville is not that.
I disagree that the comedy is thrown in. I've watched every episode. The comedy derives from science fiction "what if" situations that a Star Trek era would've encountered in real life.
So dry humping a statue comes from a"What if" situation or the dozen divorce and sex jokes? Okay then.
The Orville "comedy" is a necessary facet of the show, to keep the ParaBorg robolawyers from destroying the Orville universe, like they did the ST-TOS universe, Axanar, and the Roddenberry vision.
Look past the specifics of the statue, Mr. Bond. Consider it a similar cultural infraction to Westley Crusher disturbing a flower bed. The gist is to show how an instantaneous feedback, "true democracy" would operate. It's a reflection of our own internet-fed social media influences our political and social structure today. The Founders (USA, not Dominion) termed this "Mob Rule".
That was an encouraging review. It sounds like a good programme. So far, I’ve not seen it, because of those bad early reviews.
The weaknesses of the episodic nature of The Orville could - to some extent - be overcome by having long narrative arcs, like the Xindi arc in Enterprise, which worked very well. ST does not have to be episodic, with all the action wrapped up within 40-50 minutes, and has often not been, as the 2-parter TNG 3.26-4.1 shows. The episodic nature of ST is arguably a strength, because it gives the writers the freedom to have a story take just one episode, be a two-parter (or more), or be told over an entire season. That flexibility ought to be good for creativity.
The Orville is relaxing whereas Discovery is intense. You need to almost psych yourself up to prepare to watch Discovery. With The Orville you can waft right in because it is funny and bright and feels familiar but new at the same time.
I Love The Orville its super Awesome and Funny!, can't stop watching it. it reminds me to TNG when i was a kid. in the other side Discovery is not as appetizing as preview Star Trek Series. dont get me wrong is nice and i download it and watch it, but its not like The Orville that i cant miss an episode!
The Orville and STD both started finding their legs in the second half of the season, writing improved on both shows, jokes improved on Orville, and, yes, consequences started to creep into later Orville episodes. Both shows are better than what they started. Each show seems to satisfy a certain Star Trek need, but I really both shows on their own merit.
I really like Orville. I'm not into re-makes but Orville is a throw back to ST-TNG. Some of the comedy is kinda forced, but you can tell their heart as actors and writers are in the right place. I appreciate that. Its not just an action show with laser fights and bad dialog.
Are you serious, you like STD as a Star Trek show? It is so antithetical to everything Star Trek is. I actually like Lorca, for who he is, but he's not a true Star Trek captain (and he's the most interesting character on the show). If you want true-to-form Star Trek, The Orville is your show; if you want random shoot-em-up sci-fi, then STD is a decent placebo... but it's not in any way Star Trek. They just didn't have enough creativity to create a new universe and make it appealing (like Farscape), so they bastardized an existing mythos. They should be shunned for that alone.
I would love to watch this show if it was almost anyone other than MacFarlane. Some actors have an ego so huge that you can't see the character they are playing.
I like The Orville. This show explores new topics, seeks out new ways to make us laugh, it boldly goes where no Star Trek Episodes has gone before. Plus, Bortis rocks.
In the era of Trump I NEED my escapist comfort food. Long live The Orville.
Amen ... !
I love the Crew from Orville. I can't remember all names from Discovery. I think it talks a lot :)
I feel that The Orville is paying homage to ST:TNG without trying to live up to their ideals, which I love. When I first heard about it I was extremely worried because I was afraid Seth McFarland would s**t all over the idea of Star Trek...but I am pleasantly surprised how he has taken it and honored the ideal of what came before yet put a spin on it that works. In a way, if he was helming Insurrection with his idea from Orville I think Insurrection could've been way more palatable....just my opinion :)
14:34 Actually ... he got the captain job , due to his ex girlfriend !!!
wife, ex wife
Season 2 review?
This was a pretty good video, ended up agreeing with you mostly and the humor has been toned down a bit since the first season. =)
P.S. I am not too sure why you are hiding the like/dislike ratio. Since I agree with you about 90%, if you have less than 90% likes then consider this a 'Like'. =P
I do love the Orville, sort of, it is nice to have, but if i had to decide between The Orville and Discovery, i would choose Discovery :o
The last two episodes (Identity 1 & 2) are some of the most fun television I've experienced in years. I love and care about all of the characters.
I just can't get on with discovery, I've tried but the show just seems to be Star Trek : Micheal Burnham, I have no issue with the main character being female but to me, star trek has always been about the crew coming together to solve problems in discovery it's all about the main star and to me that is just not star trek, I love the Orville, has much more of a "trek" feel than the new discovery.
The Orville is great, it feels like a mashup of TNG and Galaxy Quest.
I hope you're still watching. That Krill thing you were talking about has now been paid off :D.
I like the humor on two levels. First, a little satire on the old original Star Treks is just fun. My favorite one is not at all a "self aware running commentary on what's happening." It was a scene where the captains says (something like) open a channel, and he starts talking. Then Alara interrupts to say she didn't do it yet. That's not artificial. It's a little kidding at the originals where that never happens. But you can imagine that such things could happen in "reality". SECOND, the general kidding around attitude of the crew makes the "jokes" seem to be a natural part of the story. The fact that the captain is introduced as a bit of a screw-up, and picks a friend to pilot the ship who is also a bit of a loose cannon, makes their funny actions self-consistent and thereby easy to accept. Sure it reminds us that we're just watching a show, and the Orville isn't a real space ship. So what. Let's have Orville run for many seasons and it will also evolve.
Fox is pretty much the only one left without a Sci-Fi franchise, until now. I love "The Orville" Universe and hope Fox continues with spin-offs and movies...
That was exactly my reaction to The Orville! I hope it is wildly successful and gives birth to many spin-offs and films in the years/decades to come!
To me a big problem with Discovery is CBS. You have to sign up for their streaming service to watch it and honestly, I already pay for MULTIPLE streaming services So.... it is not worth it to me. The Orville is a good show and the second season so far has been even better than the first
It is MacFarlane's Love Letter to TNG, nothing more, nothing less.
And it is awesome.
I wonder if your observations about the Krill @ 17:00 - 18:30 have changed during the second season, with Mercer having finally taken steps in his romantic life to move on from Kelly, only to discover his love interest is none other than the very Krill survivor who pronounced his condemnation at the end of that fist season episode. You are either extremely prescient or the Orville writers are watching you.
1st season of any of the STs were underwhelming. On the other hand there is zero TV that is even close other than the Orville. I am in it for the long haul.
I agree that STD and Orville are apples and oranges.
Except that 6 bucks a month isn't a lot.
The Orville is my Star Trek
I want to make a quick comment that I take some issue with your use of the word "comforting." Granted, there's a sense of comfort in having something like our old Star Trek (familiarity), and maybe some find the utopian-ish world of Star Trek a comfort as well. However, the value of Star Trek's utopia-like Federation and optimism is not for comfort, but for INSPIRATION. It's not supposed to lull you into feeling like the future could turn out OK, it's about inspiring you to HELP MAKE that future happen, and that's how Star Trek has contributed most to human society.
On the other sense of comfort though, it didn't have to be TNG-like. ALL previous Star Trek are united under canon design and continuity (though not perfect). TOS is reaffirmed in TNG and DS9. ENT reaffirms TNG in the last episode. Discovery stands alone and upends everything. It could have been ENT-like and it would have been fine, but it's a reboot trying to lie to us that it's not - and Star Trek was never about pretending the audience was stupid.
I love The Orville. It's Star Trek with more jokes. Brilliant.
At 3:20, it's not "funny." It's just common sense. If it's MY SHOW, then yes, I'm the captain
I think you have misinterpreted Mercer's situation in the first episode. Certainly the idea was given that this was a sort of average crew, on an average, lackluster ship. However, the feel about Mercer was that Kelly ruined the career of an up and coming officer, the divorce is what got his career off-course, and why Union leadership wasn't rushing to give him his own command.
Whereas Kelly saw who he really was, and who he was on track to become before the divorce. So she went to bat for him, and got him a mediocre command post (which was about the only thing command was willing to give to him after his post-divorce behavior), and now he is able to pull out of the divorce slump, and prove himself as a good captain. Because he has such a mediocre command, he doesn't get a lot of top-notch officers to pick from, but Kelly requested it, the doctor requested it, and who knows why the Orville got Isaac, that one is a bit of a mystery. The rest of the characters were assigned, with the exception of the helmsman, who is an underachiever, but has a passion and skill for flying, so a mediocre person, perhaps, but not a mediocre pilot.
So in that sense, I think you really missed who Mercer is. I don't think it was missing from the story-line, just perhaps too subtle for everyone to pick up on from day one. Maybe if you go back and rewatch season one, you will see it the way I see it, where he really was a bright young officer who should have moved up the ranks fairly well, maybe not top of the top, like Picard, but also not mediocre. Just the affair and divorce threw him off track professionally, and that subsequent slump would have ruined his career if his ex-wife hadn't got to bat for him behind the scenes, which comes up in one of the mid-season episodes, I forget which one.
As for the jokes sometimes feeling unnatural and out of place, I agree, but I also think it is pretty good about keeping the jokes to a minimum. I had expected a lot less series a series from MacFarlane, but I really think he has pulled it off. One ST writer says that the comedy aspect has to be there to keep the Orville in "satire" status, to avoid copyright infringement issues. So if I have to endure a few ill-conceived, or ill-placed jokes to get more of what I loved from TNG, DS9, Voyager, and to an extent a little Babylon 5... well, I say keep the jokes coming and keep The Orville on the air and out of court!
Concerning Discovery, it breaks many of the mandates given by Roddenberry, it doesn't follow the spirit of the optimistic future where conflict and hate is nearly eradicated in humanity and most of its advanced allies, and conflict comes from outside, from ignorant species, and knowledge and tolerance can really solve all problems. Star Trek was a very optimistic concept, and everything before Discovery was very optimistic, even through wars they were able to hold on to their optimism in TNG, DS9, and Voyager. Discovery is like a bleak, dark future, filled the all the exact same problems in humanity that we still have today, nobody has learned anything the past few hundred years. STD really should have been some sort of DC/Marvel universe type series called simply: "Michael Burnham", or "Guardians of the Quadrant" or something, and not borrowed ST institutional names and designations and patterns, but just been it's own little space adventure in it's own right. I can enjoy watching STD, but it always grinds on my mind that they are trying to peddle it as more Star Trek. I haven't stopped watching it yet, but I don't enjoy it nearly as much as the Orville. Hopefully Discovery will improve in time.
The Orville is way more Star Trek. The Orville has their shit together. This show is so much fun to watch. Steve the show is funny. All the jokes land if you have a sense of humor Steve. I got to say I disagree with your criticism of the show. In an episodic show the characters don't usually carry over the emotion of the last week's episode. Each show is it's own episode.
Discovery just pisses me off. You say not to compare the two shows. I think they should be compared to each other. Discovery writing and effects are terrible. Discovery does not have to be Star Trek but they should be expected to have good special effects and good writing. The characters are not people you want to know. The effects are hard to see. Nothing is consistent with Star Trek history as we know it. The Klingon make up looks fake. It is obvious they have face masks over their heads. At this point there is no comparison between Orville and Discovery. Sorry Orville is fantastic. I don't see the flaws that you bring up Steve. Discovery on the other hand is a huge mess. It is Discovery that does not have it's legs yet.
The Orville share a common theme with ST TNG, they are Optimistic in their visions