"The Left Used to Believe in Winning People Over" - Mark Steel
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- Опубліковано 14 лип 2024
- 💥Join us on our Journey to 1 Million Subscribers💥 Mark Steel is an English author, broadcaster, stand-up comedian and newspaper columnist. He is a regular on British TV and radio, appearing on such shows as Mock the Week, Have I Got New for You and QI. He has also written for The Guardian, The Independent and Daily Mirror. He presents BBC Radio programmes The Mark Steel Lectures, The Mark Steel Solution, Mark Steel's in Town and the podcast What the f*ck is going on?
#comedy #funny #politics
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Stand-up comedians Konstantin Kisin (@konstantinkisin) and Francis Foster (@francisjfoster) make sense of politics, economics, free speech, AI, drug policy and WW3 with the help of presidential advisors, renowned economists, award-winning journalists, controversial writers, leading scientists and notorious comedians.
00:00 Intro
01:17 Mark Steel’s Background
05:36 What Was it Like Getting Into Standup in the 80s?
11:57 Being at the Heart of a Cultural Movement
14:21 What Does Being Left Wing Mean to Mark?
21:01 Can Socialist Societies Work?
25:20 Sponsor Message: Express VPN
27:01 Mark’s Entry Into The Left
32:02 How Mark’s Upbringing Affected His Political Views
37:26 The Loss Of Solidarity Amongst The Working Class
44:34 The Conflict Between Freedom Of Expression & Comedy
55:47 What Is The Left?
1:01:41 Is Mark Excited By The Prospect Of a Labour Government?
1:07:13 What Mark Has Learned From His Standup Career
1:13:41 What’s the One Thing We’re Not Talking About?
WATCH exclusive bonus content where *Mark* answers audience questions.
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CHAPTERS👇
00:00 Intro
01:17 Mark Steel’s Background
05:36 What Was it Like Getting Into Stand-up in the 80s?
11:57 Being at the Heart of a Cultural Movement
14:21 What Does Being Left Wing Mean to Mark?
21:01 Can Socialist Societies Work?
25:20 Sponsor Message: Express VPN
27:01 Mark’s Entry Into The Left
32:02 How Mark’s Upbringing Affected His Political Views
37:26 The Loss Of Solidarity Amongst The Working Class
44:34 The Conflict Between Freedom Of Expression & Comedy
55:47 What Is The Left?
1:01:41 Is Mark Excited By The Prospect Of a Labour Government?
1:07:13 What Mark Has Learned From His Stand-up Career
1:13:41 What’s the One Thing We’re Not Talking About?
People voting for Labour or Conservative are essentially voting for the same thing. And it's a fabulous construct believing they're different.
Whoever you vote for, the government ends up in power. All you can do is keep swapping the name of the party in charge to keep them on their toes and stop them turning into monsters.
I think there's a world of difference between corbyn and starmer. Having said that there are many tories who are calling for renationalising of the railways. There are so many crossovers in politics nowadays. Some conservstives are more "left wing" than some labourites. Problem is left wing nowadays seems to be about throwing benefits at people rather than supporting their calls for a decent living wage. The third wayn(the combination of private and public companies) seems to be here for better or worse
Then did you vote for Laurence Fox’s Reclaim Party!?
@@catscan2022How?
The railways are pretty much nationalised.
I’ve seen a lot of channel debunk the living wage or what ever to call it.
"After World War II, American influence ensured that the entire country was more or less surrendered to the Labour Party-the political organ of the Nonconformist tradition. The result is well described in Peter Hitchens’ über-reactionary, but quite cogent, Abolition of Britain, or somewhat more apolitically in Theodore Dalrymple’s Life at the Bottom. New Labour is more or less a Cromwellian restoration, and one can only hope that its long-awaited comeuppance will be enlivened by the hanging of a corpse or two.
...And as of late, the so-called Tories have undergone the same degrading humiliation. In the UK, any significant resistance to “super-protestantism” is now a footnote of history. The country’s descent into sheer ecstatic barbarism, as long foretold by critics of the Nonconformist ascendancy, is now at hand."
How Dawkins was Pwned Part 2 - Mencius Moldbug
I may disagree with them on a bunch of things. But I can respect a sincere lefty/socialist who hasn't acquired Trump/Brexit derangement syndrome. And who believes the answer to those things is a leftist alternative, rather than supporting the establishment and labeling everyone who voted for those things a racist.
The old school labor commies are becoming increasingly reasonable as mainline leftism leaves them behind
The problem is that Socialism aims to BE the establishment.
They may use different derogatory terms, but ultimately they do what racists do…. which is to judge people according to their identity-group membership.
ironically the left now calls these people right wing...
@@peterwebb8732I'm happy to focus on class.
the Left are naturally judgemental and intolerant, we now have a load of middle class Lefties who now believe they are morally superior and have great delight in calling Tories scum even though the Conservative party aren't even conservative anymore. you even see it on dating apps where its not unusual to see no Tories, no bigots, no racists, these people aee living in a bubble and genuinely believe this about conservatives, thry don't realise they are talking about their workmate, their grandparents, their neighbour
I tend to find that those who haven't had their livelihood threatened by "woke" institutions don't really see it as a big problem. Wonder why that is?
I think he's just old school and unaware of it
No such thing as woke institution.
What a pleasure to see all of you engaged in conversation. Please explore all three of you working together in the future . Your different political views are well known, yet your ability to talk with each other made this a very enjoyable podcast.
I have always said people from different views can be cordial with each other as individuals. It's when they have great numbers that the issues start.
Agreeing to disagree and respecting other people's views used to be much more popular . Things have become so divisive and polarising now and that is from folk on both the left and right .
Definitely get him back! and please get more 'Proper Old Left' guests, so that viewers can learn the difference between the 'Real Left' and the new 'Woke Identity Left'
Couldn’t agree more. Except the woke aren’t left. They’re a fifth column, supported by every corporation, who like nothing more than to divide and rule.
Here here!
The 'real left'...
Sounds like the 'No true scotsman fallacy' to me.
Who elected you the ultimate arbiter of what is and isn't leftism?
Hear-hear!
@@MrRowntree27 despite your hysterical hyperbole, the ‘left’ is a clearly defined term, or at least would be if people bothered to look it up.. it’s the politics representing the interests of the people, particularly counterposing the interests of the ruling class, or reactionary forces.
Therefore anything that divides the people, benefits or detracts from one group, helping the ruling class, cannot be considered left.
We think he's brilliant! Love his 'Mark Steel's in Town' and 'The Mark Steel Lectures' shows - hilarious! It'll be interesting to hear his views on what's happened to the left in recent years.
Sounds as though Mark steel is still a true leftie and not a closet tory snob like Russell kane who seems to think culture only happens among the middle and upper classes.
Atilla the Stockbroker.
His lecture on Thomas Paine was so artfully done, the pathos had me laughing then crying. He's brilliant
I'm just working my way through all the 'In Town' ' series, bloody brilliant. 😂
A wonderful interview. Mark is such a lefty but, in the true sense. He BELIEVES what he is saying and is not just adhering to tropes. He has clearly thought long and hard about his views. His willingness to engage in political discussion whilst defending his viewpoints makes this abundantly clear. This is the kind of political animal that is needed on all sides.
Great work Francis and KK, keep it up.
He's a splendid fella, who wants to find something to like in everybody. He wants people's lives to get better; he's not interested in cramming society into a particular shape that suits him. Too many people on the left and the right want to transform the place in some way and don't give a crap about the people in it.
"USSR wasn't real Socialism," is a horse that was long flogged to death; and it was wrong when the flogging started.
I can respect an old school lefty. At least they don't hate the working class
It's my only criterion now for politicians and 'public figures' - do they actually believe what they're saying; whether I believe it or not. Mr Steel is very funny, too
@@charlytaylor1748 It's a good test question, c, but it needs a follow-up: 'If they're sincere, are they sane and decent, or wicked and mad?' The Taliban certainly Mean It - and that's the problem.
I think Mark likes almost everybody, and wants everyone to be OK - rightly or wrongly he sees a democratic socialist political program as the way to achieve this (again, just my surmise). Conversely, there are people on the left and the right who don't particularly like the ordinary person, and just want to make society look like it ought to (in their enlightened view) by extensive tethering and pruning. This isn't Mark, and good for him.
That's more than enough of me. All best.
Superb stuff, lads. One of the best interviews you've done. Mark is a proper old-school lefty - genuinely cares for people, and yet is willing to listen to other arguments. I'm so annoyed that much of the left have gone away from his way of thinking.
He is terribly down to earth. It's good to see.
He also believes racism is a meaningful thing, and that a nazi is not worth saving, and yet, many examples from people better than him who tried and had success.
@@atheosmonde a Nazi isn't worth saving, wyta?
The problem Mark is stuck in thinking that all lefties are still like him, in the 80's Solidarity for the workers mode.
All his examples of wrongness were framed as right wingers. He even characterized Cyclists attacking him as right wingers i.e Barry with his Union Jack flag when I guarantee that most not if not every cyclist piling on him on twitter were left Wing Progressives.
And I had to laugh when he said the woke have no institutional power anywhere, even in the comedy world. The guys nearly choked. Even Kk had to politely offer a reality check.
He believes the woke are all entirely correct and just standing up to bigots and so anyone standing up to them must be Racist bigots. The only concession he made was that their tactics might be wrong, but even then he framed it as really the right's fault for not listening and behaving properly i.e being left wing.
It's not that his criticisms of the right don't have merit, it's that he can't see that any of the left could possibly be just as wrong and worthy of criticism.
@@adam5977 His comparison of the 1980's alternative comedy scene with Beethoven pretty much set up the tone of the interview. Unfortunately, he is a deluded man, and he will always be this way because he will forever live in a world of 'what if?'
Konstantin: "I don't want you to slam the woke"...
Francis: "You can if you want to!" 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hilarious.
I’ve been listening to Mark Steel since I was in my teens and I’m now middle aged. Goes to show what a quality speaker he is. Great guy. Also check out ‘The Mark Steel lectures’. He is someone who can actually bring history to life. A lot of them are on UA-cam.
Mark Steele is a good bloke. He defends Eddie Izzard's rights to use women's spaces and also Kathleen Stock's right to a public stage. Unfortunately, that sums up nice blokes everywhere. There's a tension between those rights...and look who loses out! Time for the nice blokes to do the research!
Anyone who advocates for Eddie Izzard in woman's spaces is not a good person.
He isn't a women and women have a right to spaces without men.
Absolutely the old fair liberal of years ago has led us to these crazy places with indifference.
'Do the research' is always a red flag.
@Conal792 I don't disagree. I think I was being generous. He almost certainly has. His attempt to dodge a bullet from either side is more likely to mean that he's avoiding controversy.
Women like me are so fed up of the lack of support from left-wing men. So often they fail us. They don't really care if men are incarcerated with women. Or if Austin Killip takes another trophy. Women are expendable.
And what the right has lost is basically respect for human beings,Enoch Powell and Michael Foot were good friends outside of their political standings.
I generally respect Mark Steel. I have read one of his books, I am of the left, at least economically, though I often disagree with his stances. I am glad TN gave him this platform, I do not agree with him on a lot, but he will actually defend them against critics. Good on him.
Kudos for getting mark on. Been a fan of his for years. He's brilliant.
This was great. Just very human, heaps of empathy except for the intolerance for cushions! Very much enjoyed it.
And a great reminder that what is now defined as woke was introduced for genuinely good reasons and how much progress has been made in terms of civil partnerships and just general respect for others. That anecdote about the two black men in his place of work was shocking enough but the fact that it wasnt out of the ordinary shows why intervention was needed. I'm similar in age to mark but I never encountered anything like that. Must have been lucky I guess
Since 1991 55% of the UK population growth has come from immigration, Mark. British people lose their jobs when migrants take over their hotel. There are homeless chefs here working in the day for Chinese tourists and not having a roof over their head at night. There are tonnes of empty properties in the capital owned by foreigners who, at best, see it as an "asset" and at worse, a money laundering scheme. Address the issues before the pendulum swings back hard.
Really afraid of what that might look like. The "pendulum swinging back"...
@scoobihu1090 Not at all obvious to me. Please do tell.
@scoobihu1090 Oh, I thought you already had something more detailed in mind. I think we already have tribalism and race based conflict now. It can still get worse though...
I think you're exactly right. competition for resources keeps intensifying and ultimately that will result in tribalism. one look at history confirms this as basically inevitable, and culture/race/ideology are the biggest separators. it's gonna be ugly
So everything was fine before 1991? Things have gradually got worse since 1991? This Us and Them mentality is precisely what those who pocket the produce of your labours love to see. Workers blaming each other while the mill owners fleece them still makes me chuckle after all these years. The bankers stole your money and destroyed the economy. The politicians pass the laws which fatten their stock portfolios. Stop blaming your fellow worker and educate yourself as to where the problem with capitalism lies.
Have always loved Mark Steel since seeing him on the 1980s cabaret comedy circuit. However, he has recently written in the Observer about wokeism and cancel culture being a right wing fiction and a distraction. I can't find the article now but give him some hard questions please.
Well, he is correct. Take for example the Tory focus on small-boats or their culture war stuff. It's because the real things that happen - the failure of Brexit, the disastrous handling of COVID, the tanking economy - they're all things they don't want to talk about because it's their fault.
@@DavidHeffron78 Yes the Tories seize on any distraction so as not to deal with real issues, I know. That doesn't mean that young kids should be taught there are multiple gender options, that being "queer" (in the Queer Studies sense) is liberating or that "white" people have to feel guilty about their genetics. That is all bullshit imported from US academia. The right wing use intersectionality etc as a distraction but it is not a fiction. Ps I am no supporter of DeSantis and his cronies, far from it!
But it's mostly true. Although I disagree that wokeism is a creation of the right, its flags are indeed just dumb fantasies of the left, and "combating" wokeism is very, very far from being a priority. The right position in it's regard is a total waste of time and the urgency they attribute to it is, indeed, fictional.
@@DavidHeffron78Spot on, David.
It's not a fiction when you hear it coming out of left wing people's mouths though! Some of the hard left are mad on social issues.
I used to really enjoy watching Mark on 'Have I Got News For You' back in the 90's & 00's. I never fully agreed with everything he said but he always had that passion for the working man, something the New Skool Lefties could do with getting their heads around. Good stuff KK & FF.
"The working man" is gradually being relegated to the "underclass".
Being a Brickie's mate, I remember being told to lift a large cement bag like " a n***er off yer missus" in 1978. Common terminology at the time.. Pensioner now.
The left used to act less like early fascists.
Really, what fascist stuff is the left up to?
@DavidHeffron78 You must be severely out of touch.
@@DavidHeffron78what do you mean by fascism?
If you mean militarism: supporting literal Nazis in Ukraine
If you mean nation-state socialism (Mussolini's fascism): that's the left's core ideology (ahead even of communism)
If you mean establishing a bonkers state religion with its own flags everywhere: the gay/woke movement seems to qualify
If you mean creating ghettos for undesirables, movement controls, papers please: the corvid and 15 minute city regimes both seem to qualify
Debanking, silencing and destroying dissent - while imposing radical psychopathic, racist ideology which noone has voted for - because they JUST NOW that power is theirs by right.
@@DavidHeffron78Tony Blair...wmd.
I'm a socialist because I can't hold a job.
The trade unions' problem isn't that they have too little economic power. Their problem is they don't know economics, or they only know socialist economics, which isn't an economics based on human nature. They would do better to abandon socialism and figure out their true economic power. The truth is labor's only powers are its scarcity and its mobility.
Supply and demand, baby. Immigration is not labor's friend.
I really enjoyed Mark’s talk. His thought process is very familiar to my brain.
Can you get James Corden ‘why I’m an arse’
Something very reassuring about this sometimes awkward, but real, funny , kind , honest, a willingness to actually listen with no agenda chat from Mark. I miss the old left I really do. made me happy this. what a lovely man x
Totally agree with him about the importance of talking to the other side and trying to win them over. I live in the United States and the left and right are constantly at each other’s throats, with no room for discussion. We are at a stalemate and seems like nothing is getting done. I am a leftist myself but am always willing to give the other side room to talk about their ideas and share my own in a respectful manner. Open dialogue is so important.
I somehow think that KK did not enjoy this interview as much as FF did. KK can be difficult to read but there were times he did look unimpressed and had rapid hand and head movements which indicated he wanted Mark to "get on with it"
Mark said absolutely nothing of substance for the entire interview. Gets asked about freedom of speech and goes on about flipping housing and gays FFS.
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU! . This has driven me mad, being of working class this so called "new leftism" is what I would call middle class virtue signalling. Like you I feel that people should be heard and concerns adressed. On hot topics like immigration there are real issues ; issues that predominantely affects the working class and the poor, yet these people refuse to listen; instead they look down on people who they consider "uneducated", "white trash" or the infamous term used to describe Trump supporters (I am not American and dislike him severely); "Deplorables"...
Instead we are introduced to fringe ideas like "Queer theory" and "Gender Ideology" sprung out of North America. Infused with commercialism and a hint of American Exceptionalism; deflective non-issues for the struggling.
Patronizing the working class and the poor alike. There's a whole political movement of people who act like recent Uni. Graduates who suddenly thinks they know it all.
Fk. it.
👏
Spot on mate.
the left wing has always been controlled by elites lol - there is nothing such thing as working class left creations, the working class left were and are the lemmings of the elite left
Well said. Don't forget about state and corporate "pink washing". You can exploit the people, bomb and murder people, pollute to your hearts content as long as you have a rainbow flag and pride march.
Yeah, I’m not a professional either but Mark is most definitely ADHD. Hard to keep up with him sometimes…he’s forever seeing a metaphorical “squirrel “ and going off on tangents. I wonder if you had an infinite amount of time, how long it would take for him to finally wind down. A loooong time I’m thinking.
Not a good interview sry lads - I used to like Mark Steel and even saw him live but why wasn't he asked about how he joined and then left the Socialist Workers Party and what he learned from that? How was he able to skirt (if that's the right word!) the issue of Eddie Izzard claiming to be 'true trans' and a woman?
Interesting booking, it'll be nice to hear something different (even if I'm unlikely to be swayed, it's good to hear from people you disagree with that aren't screeching like a banshee and he's had a fairly respectable career on the UK comedy scene)
I would love to see more interviews with people on the left, otherwise it just becomes a bit of an echo-chamber like everything else
I agree but Konstantin has previously said that those considered to be on the left are reluctant to appear on their channel
@@catscan2022Rarely do the left appear anywhere. They have nothing to say anymore, except personal attacks on those who disagree
The mainstream media is an echo chamber for the Left. I don't see why media outlets that don't espouse leftists' views should hand them an olive branch, they wouldn't reciprocate.
They won't come on. Many of them do not agree with open dialogue.
@@fiveleavesleft6521 the authoritarian extreme left won't but then again the extreme right don't appear on this channel either which I suspect is more to do with the trig boys not really wanting them on the show
Good friday was Blair WALKING OVER MO MOLAM'S CORPSE to get credit
My 1 Mark Steel anecdote.
(Before I knew he was a Radio 4 job for lifer, touring backwater tish holes to big them up)
I was sitting on a train pulling into the stop before mine, (grim Northern Town) when I noticed Mark Steel, no longer blocked in by standing commuters, sat diagonally, and completely out of context.
I stared at him with a just why here? look on my face for way toooo loooong. he thought it was hilarious. I was thinking he was on that panel show just last night but no one can see him, in this setting.... mindblowing. Props to him that he didn't speak, it was a long surreal moment.
He is just a decent man with a good heart.
Socialists are lying snakes who imagine that theft is compassion
Decent people fall for socialism because it ‘feels nice’ but it always ends up with the same result. Totalitarianism and insanity.
Decent men take a good hard look at how the results of their ideas affect people. Real people. Those who don’t, are utopianists, caring more about their ideas than the people they claim to care for.
I like Mark Steel. He always has something interesting to say.
An average comedian who benefits financially from BBC patronage precisely because of his politics. It was interesting that he named left wing Frankie Boyle but couldn't name a "right wing" comedian. I wonder why? because they were all cancelled by chance? by the organisations you work for?
Great guest! I am glad to hear some different perspectives on your show. Keep up the great interviews!
You missed "champagne" from the title...
Also Dave Spart & Khunt.
The labour party he is talking about in the past is not today's labour....
Would he be a socialist if he was grafting 6 days a week....its easy being a socialist when you don't have to.
Would anyone be a capitalist if they're grafting 6 days a week? Doing that for a paltry wage had me so ready for a revolution in the past
@@tristan_mcdonald well yeah, you are working, grafting up the greasy promotional pole.... not getting shit handed to you...
Capitalism is a great thing if you graft for it.....
@@unitedkingdomoffiveeyes9765 I don't agree. I'm pretty much the capitalist wet dream of coming from a poor background, "grafting" exploitative, miserable jobs for decades, and now being in the top 5% of salaries, but I'd still MUCH rather live in a society based on cooperation and support where everyone has their needs met than one in which it's basically battle royale amongst the workers to try and become one of the few who can live in comfort and dignity.
The world you would like doesn't and will not exist because humans lie, are very sneaky and selfish...
Yes, a boss of a company can also be selfish but you know exactly what they are, and at least you can aim for his position and make it better..
A socialist or communist society doesn't allow you to do that IF you are poor you stay poor....and if you are rich you're dead. I don't want free stuff I want to work for it.
I'm not in the same political camp as Mark but I understand where he is coming from at least on some levels. Alwaysd willing to discuss things, and as Keynes said change my mind if the facts change.
Throughly recommend Mark Steel in Town on Radio 4. Very good at leg pulling the locals and making them and me laugh.
Mark was very influential in turning me away from the sneering look down their nose left
All I want is a party for the working class. That is all.
Sending Mark a virtual hug from me in 🇬🇧. Get well soon ♥️♥️
Great hearing Mark, but he is very wrong saying that the woke ideology isn't dominating the western world at the moment. Yes, Trump was elected, but that was by the people and not the media, big tech, Hollywood, the instutions or the establishment, which were and are overwhelmingly opposed to him. In this country the BBC, the vast majority of all broadcast media, the universities and education sector, the civil service, the armed forces, the National Trust, British Musuems, the Police, the NHS, most private corporations, supermarkets, most financial institutions including the Bank of England, the Church of England and large parts of the judiciary are *all* captured by the extremely divisive identify politics ("woke") ideology.
I think he meant it in the sense that they are not controlling legislation or political decision making, that is still very much being done by politicians. But you are absolutely right in that they are influencing their decision making and that is the problem, those who can actually make political decisions are giving in and listening to this ideology because what we now define as 'woke' has become the dominant voice exacerbated by social media. The problem is that there is no real voice for the majority because its been hijacked by the woke, so yet again it is the working classes that will suffer.
What is the woke ideology?
ua-cam.com/video/06yy88tLWlg/v-deo.html&vl=en-GB
Yeah I'm also intrigued what you think the woke ideology is
@@kr050 "Woke" encompasses many definitions, whether a western evolution of marxism, a devisive pseudo-religious devotion to identity politics, or a puritanical, extremist version of political correctness.
But really it is all of these things.
Saw Mark perform years ago in Birmingham. He was hilarious, it’s good to see him again.
How is Britain going to survive on a service economy? The chicken will come home to roost soon
Great guest, great interview. Someone who has convictions and is never afraid to debate them.
Member of the socialist workers party, but he’s got some issues with the ‘far left’!
Socialism/Leftism has become more akin to just telling yourself something pretty despite reality.
It was always that....
The losing side of the culture war always appeals to people's better natures. They have to. Whoever's about to lose their seat at the table is suddenly very vocal about protecting *anyone else's* seat.
🎯
My favourite comedian. I listen to everything he does and literally laugh out loud when out and about because I have the podcast/show in my ear.
They gave him an easy time imho.
I loved the monologues he used to do in the style of an old lefty labour politician. really funny!!!
Really delighted to see Mark on this.
Looking forward to the full interview.
Great chat thankyou and Mark Steel is a top bloke.
Thoroughly enjoyed this interview, only ever seen his sketches, so really enjoyed this sit down. Well done all, again really enjoyed this interview, placed a new light on Mr. Steel 👍
Really enjoyed this! Followed mark for years and he’s always good!
DISAPPOINTED. Why not quiz this guy about Socialism? The actual theory and practice. Socialism is deserving of the most severe rogering.
Great interview with such a lovely bloke.
Great interview chaps. I really enjoyed it.
Good one this guys. If all lefties were like Mark, there’d be no hope for us. I’ve met him myself a few years ago; He’s a bright bright guy and if Labour fielded more candidates like him and fewer like Eddie Izzard, they would have a good chance of winning their core back. But hey, what do we know?
Mark is a really nice guy, there is a very, very nice audio recording of him and Jeremy Harding, talking and reminiscing, and although they are left-wing, especially Jeremy, they are quite human, reasonable, and funny, I would recommend it.
… because I have no clue about economy!
Capitalism is about stealing from the poor. If Jesus was a Capitalist he would have charged for each portion of bread and fish and if they couldn't afford it he'd say "fuck off!" As someone once said "If hard work and money worked then every African woman would be a millionaire."
Because I am not a heartless bustard who thinks if people are poor they're nothing but scum and deserve to be poor?
We had right wing economics since Thatcher and Reagan and it's been a disaster.
Mark Steel: SOLID. Thanks.
It is not generally know that Clement Attlee (Labour) closed 101 Pits between 1947 & 1951!
In 1921 Black Friday destroyed the ‘triple alliance’ of miners, transport workers and railwaymen, created in 1914 to express and reinforce working-class solidarity.
Underwhelmed
Loved that, thanks!
I’ve always liked Mark Steel, but he’s got a lot more patience with The Woke than I do. He should be canonised. 🤣
Brilliant.....please bring him back for interview #2
My favourite programme for many years, was The New Quiz on Radio 4. The best episodes were always when Mark Steel and the terribly missed Jeremy Hardy were on. Also Linda Smith - way back in the day. Proof, if it were needed, it's possible to be a socially conscious lefty, while being irreverent and not taking yourself too seriously. And, crucially - also funny.
I find it mad how many people seem to read about his politics and react to him, as though they have never bothered to listen to any of the actual words he actually says... Interestingly, both from the left and the right. A strange time to engage with politics. Also, Steel's WTF podcast is great value.
I used to love Mark, especially his Radio 4 crappy towns series, but to hear him standing up for Eddie Izzard's 'right' to call himself a 'woman' has me turned right off him.😢
This has disappointed me too. Eddie Izzard is a menace.
I don't agree with it either but Mark isn't the sort of the guy that will attack him either which quite rightly isn't the best way to go about it, Mark seems like a live and let live kind of guy which I would say for the most part is a good way to treat people but yes when it comes to the tyrannical trans movement it becomes difficult to maintain that stance without coming across like you are just demonizing for the sake of it. Plus he is a comic and probably knows Eddie Izzard on a personal level so not exactly a good idea to bash him on social media.
@@artofsam live and let live is easy when you have nothing to lose. If his wife or daughter needed women-only rape crisis provision MS *might* see things differently.
So funny - great conversation chaps.
"Who do I think I am?" by Mark Steel is a fantastic piece!
The whole first 10 minutes was basically recognizing the obsolescence of the left-right paradigm, and a tacit promotion of the “political compass” model.
These days it’s obvious that the left/right axis is nowhere near as important as the libertarian/authoritarian axis.
And that’s what Mark is talking about at the beginning… “the left’s” gradual shift from persuasive arguments to “toe the line or you’re out of the club.”
My run ins back in the day tell different; out selling Living Marxism the Socialist Worker types were proud Stalinists and used to slag us off as Leninists. Socialist Worker liked heavy state control.
Mark, for fucks sake, imagine going back in time and informing the TUC that in the future companies can sack an empolyee for their beliefs outside work.
Impressed by how balanced and reasonable Mark comes off here.
Yes. Mellowing?
So he can't hold a regular job and becomes a Socialist. Checks out
No, he couldn't hold down a regular job, so became a wealthy comedian off the telly.
I was expecting to disagree with this guy but he had some good points.
Thank you for having left and right guests on, and thank you for trying to be impartial (even if you're not on Russia KK!!)
Really love Triggernometory!
I was in Mark's SWP branch in Croydon, very personable guy. listening to him reminds me that we both owe a lot to the SWP for a political education in good class politics. I do think class has come back in the political arena with bus, train, teachers, nurses and Amazon workers on strike, let's hope this movement grows.
That’s what this country needs. I am starting to think that one of the main reasons why the Tories were so enthusiastic about bringing so many immigrants to work in the NHS was to put a block on the working class being able to have this strong idea of class consciousness. I had a stay in hospital a little while ago and got close to a few of the nurses who were telling me some of their woes. I asked one if she was in a union. She was not. In fact didn’t even seem to know if she was allowed to join one. I explained to her how one particular problem she was having could be solved by a union. I had to explain all about how unions work in this country and how easy it was for her to join. After that I made it my business to talk to all of the nurses who liked chatting with me the positive points of joining a union. When I looked it up foreign born workers are much less likely to join unions. There needs to be a programme of educating people about this type of thing.
We have not had a conservative government for the last 13 years. We have had a government presided over by the Conservative Party, which is not at all the same thing. True conservatives see the Conservative Party as consocialists. There is absolutely nothing about them that seeks to conserve. They have no interest in our nation, our history, our culture, the mental and physical welfare of our children, our judiciary, the impartiality of our civil service, our police forces .... the list just goes on and on and on. They are so in thrall to Schwab's globalist and corporate vision they are more than happy to throw everyone else under the bus. It is truly terrifying.
Indeed, Sunak does not even recognise that there is a problem. He thinks that the economy is the only thing that holds a nation together. It really isn't. Oh - and they have screwed up the economy as well.
I have been poltiically conservative all my adult life - which is why I ahev not voted for the Conservative PArty since 1987. I tell a lie: I held my nose and voted for the bastards when Theresa May in 2017 when she claimed to need a mandate to defeat the Remainer obstructionists. She lied. Once bitten, many, many times shy. I will go to my grave without ever voting for them again.
Hell, NO!.. no labor, no Torries
Reid Fleming, world's toughest milkman
Mark saying a Poet on the circuit in the 1980's mmm Eh John Cooper Clark:- By the '80s, anything to do with punk was perceived as rancid. Me being known as the 'punk poet' meant my work and I plummeted.
There was also John Hegley, and Pam Ayres (maybe she was the 70s?).
You were a poet? Is there any footage of you?
JCC was and still is great. I still have his book "10 years in an open-necked shirt".
I can relate to the milk story! When I was young, I would space out things at work A LOT. It was tough. I just didn't care. At the same time, I had to pay my bills. What a nightmare those days were. chuckle... it's a miracle some of us make it...
By lies, propaganda, platitudes and threats yes. The worst kind of people.
There's a difference between immigrating into a country because you appreciate the culture and aspire to the lifestyle as opposed to importing values and a culture at odds with the existing culture with the intention of replacing it 🤔🤫
Nothing new about that. If you're English you probably haven't a clue about bigotry in the West of Scotland.
@@ally11488 as an Englishman I apologise profusely for introducing salad vegetables to the Scots and thereby demeaning and irrevocably changing the culture 😉
@@markriding1267 Nice attempt at a joke, and I'd chuck some tumbleweed if I was in your presence.
Did you know the French refer to homosexuality as "The English disease"?
@@ally11488 when it comes to the French to be fair that was before they heard an Edinburgh accent 🤔
Reminds me of the story of the boy that the teacher asked to recite a sentence with the word fascinate in it and he said: 'My Dad wears a donkey jacket for work and it's got 9 buttons - but he can only fasten 8.'
He says he is a socialist, but can't describe what socialism is, and rejects all examples of socialist countries as being socialist...
If you reject all examples of Socialism in the world, you arent a socialist... they really were socialist, you arent.
I enjoyed his comedy on the BBC. He was a serious lefty but original and funny. Cant get away with that now
Great interview 👍
So many great points - you’ve got to persuade people to make changes stick, and you’ve got to like and engage with people if you want to persuade them. Very little of that going on from any side
To be honest though, I'm not sure where these 'civilised' chats get us. I still think the two Triggernometry hosts are wankers.
Great conversation 👍
I can’t waste my time on this - because he couldn’t manage delivering milk is the only explanation needed.
always excellent!!!
Mark steels visiting towns show was great, Inverness, Stockport, all sorts of places.
Economic migrants do take domestic jobs otherwise meant for a domestic person, not all of the jobs, but jobs none the less, its literally their raison d'etre for coming to a country.
Germany has taken its fair share of asylum seekers and is yet to see a net profit contribution from its policy. The reason big corporations are the no1 applicator of foreign visas, because a Polish teacher can be paid less, and an African doctor, and keep it going.
If refugees were looked after, with no ability to reside, until a time they could go back, that would be fine. But that's not what happens. Instead for some odd reason they are given an ability to stay....why?
Is it about protection, or is it about something else.
I personally think we should be more hard line with economic migrants, and refuse entry to any refugee who has committed a crime by using criminal means to get here.
That's why I can never understand why many working and middle-class people vote for the Tories (or any party that takes lobbying bribes from big business). Business owners want the cheap labour (and are mainly Conservatives).
Most Conservative voters seem to be voting against their own good, because they certainly aren't employers. They are the workers.
It's a funny World.
I repeatedly hear the same thing being said by people on the right and also people on the left. That being : "You see those people who keep getting in the news? The ones with the extreme views that, if implemented, would harshly restrict your rights and freedom? They really don't speak for the majority of the people on my side of the political fence"
And yet, on both sides of the political spectrum, they are the ones that keep getting the majority of the news coverage...
around 17 mins he basically describes the subversive "long march through the institutions" lol