It's all the Federally mandated tech that is required to be on modern vehicles that drive up the cost. Plus the fact that there is a lot of luxury comfort and tech that costs money to design and produce. I'm sure if a plain Jane truck was built, you could absolutely get a full-sized truck for mid-sized price. But you won't like its barebones lack of modern tech and options.
@@Uberragen21 nah its greed. A screen and some sensors dont cost 20k , doesnt even cost them 2k. They will charge you 20k for the uptick though. ITs pure greed
It's mostly just greed, there's no way that these car companies don't have meetings and make market adjustments based on what the rest of them are doing. Kind of like a silent pact. A lot of companies do it That's why you tend to see the smaller successful ones get gobbled up by the larger ones. I agree there may be some more options however even a mid-level mid-size truck is 15K if not more over
I think if manufacturers started charging less for midsize, it would cannibalize the full size market. Thinking about it, when a midsize costs $45-50k and a full size is not much more, a buyer would think it’s almost foolish to pay that much for a smaller truck when you can get the full size for just a few thousand more. It’s the “bang for the buck” attitude a lot of American consumers have, and manufacturers count on it. Conversely, if the midsize was more cost effective, they would fly off the lots because these current midsize models are equivalent to the full size of 15 years ago, and they’re incredibly more capable than ever before. However, in the real world, those who want a midsize will pay dearly for the midsize. In a perfect world, the midsize would still be within reach…but this is far from perfect.
I feel like if gm cut most of their suvs and replaced it with a 4Runner competitor with a decent engine and off-road prowess they’d makes tons of money
I think it's because the switch to electric is so expensive, the only way to do it is build for the luxury market exclusively. Reality is setting in and Ford, GM realize it isn't sustainable. The cost has to go down or we'll see major manufacturers going broke. We'll be left with what we see for so many other consumables - made in China!
I guess because sales are not that good? The competition already exists, down here in Brazil the Maverick is up against the Chevrolet Montana, RAM Rampage, Fiat Toro and Renault Oroch. Or maybe they couldn't sell it in the US because most of these trucks performed badly in a crash test.
@@DeepDishPizza 😂 don’t be dumb because a Colorado was supposed to be a cheap affordable truck. Now it will cost you $80,000 after all said and done. Interest taxes tabs license insurance. $80 k allll day long
More tiny trucks! Please! You had me at inexpensive small pickup, but as someone without a place to charge at home or work it is unrealistic. It's nice to think they want to make a truck for the average person, but don't tether them to an outlet.
yes like our old datsun-Nissan , Toyotas from the 1970-80 s single cab or maybe larger king cab and a 6' box not all of us want a crew cab and a 5' pickup box thats why I dont like todays pickups , I want to add a camper shell /topper for a lil weekend camper as im not lifting dogs up into a roof top tent
I do appreciate the electric updates. I dont see any demand any time soon for electric vehicles, not at a profitable scale. And you’re right, the real issue is lack of charging stations but no one wants to wait at a charging station for 30 mins or likely more to finish their field trip. Battery technology is not far enough along to be dependable. I see constant articles of electric vehicles leaving people stranded because they stopped working in very cold conditions.
Electric will never be the answer simply because they are actually worse for the environment. Not to mention the technology is not there. And it's all about control anyway. When they want you at home, boom shut down the power. How you gonna charge them.
The Alpha Wolf has been teased for years and years now....like Tommy, I'll believe it when I see it. I don't think the startup market has an appetite for another 'hip' EV startup. We'll be lucky to see Canoo make it to production and they're much farther along with orders on the books.
I thought the Colorado was supposed to be the small truck. That's what it used to be. They should make a cheap durable truck with no tech. Make it less than 19k new. Nobody wants a truck that can be metered and monitored or shut off remotely.
The Colorado is a mid-size - compact pickups went away because of prohibitively stupid EPA regulations(manufacturers basically got punished for building smaller trucks and given leeway to build bigger trucks, made NO sense; TTAC had a great article explaining this a while ago, "How CAFE Killed Compact Trucks And Station Wagons"). That's why the Maverick is a CUV with a bed & hybrid option instead of a more traditional compact body-on-frame like the classic Ranger was before moving up to mid-size, for the fuel economy target.
I believe this is where Ford screwed up. They should have made an EV Maverick, instead of the F150 Lightning. Maverick is more of a commuter vehicle, where EVs shine. On full sized trucks, the limitations on EVs become apparent: can't tow for example.I can see a full Maverick line: ICE, plug in hybrid, and full EVs.
I have been saying the same thing for a couple of years. EV are great as commuter vehicles. I never understood why these companies built these huge, wasteful Electric SUVs and Trucks. You are still using a ton of energy to pull all that weight around. Build small efficient vehicles that work best for the intended purpose.
That was the original plan. Ford wanted an entire Maverick family. Including a fully enclosed model. Limitations on production capacity have been the biggest issue. They've been trying to remedy that, but there isn't a quick fix.
The other thing is, they have the Powerboost. We have ours and love it, but would love say 20-30mi plug-in range. I get the weight of the batteries is there, but maybe use the 2.7V6 as the engine instead of the 3.5 to save weight, or something. Or Toyota, the hybrid authority. Instead, the Ramcharger is coming in eating their lunch. Reliability of that will be questionable, but still.
I own a 2022 Maverick Lariat FX/4. Getting 27 mpg all around. I haul cement blocks, concrete, planting trees, bags of dirt, and rock. I have recalls I have to get done, but this truck is fine for me. I just live 45 miles from a Ford dealership, so I have to make the time.
About 3 months ago I traded my 2014 raptor I had for ten years for a 2024 lightning and could not be happier. I used a truck for its bed and not its towing so it really worked out great, over 300 miles of range and just took a trip the normally takes 7hours and it took 8 with charging but instead of paying over $300 in gas it only took $49 in power so a over $250 savings for a extra hour of my life is worth it in my opinion. I ate and enjoyed the break in driving. Plus it’s way faster than 6.2 v8 raptor. I hated electric vehicles until I owned one now idk if I can go back. I’m excited to see more affordable electric trucks coming.
Good luck with that 300 Mike range in the winter… I drove a company F150 Lightning 2-3 days a week for my job. It was fine for 3 seasons, winter time completely different story. When it’s raining, snowing, cold, And you are running the heater, wipers a lot, the battery sucks down quickly. Summer I could drive it, start stop etc, just fine most of the day. Plug it in at the end of the day. Winter, some bad winter days was parking it by 2:00-3:00 to recharge, and getting back in a gas F250 to finish my rounds. This was 2-3 years ago. When company bought a few Lightning’s to test them out. I came to the conclusion they weren’t for me, not here in Utah, not with our winters.
When these MSRPs get close to each other this always happens. Remember when the domestic ranger was cancelled? Then when they get to dealerships with add ons and markyps the smaller truck is priced like the larger truck with the gas mileage that is close to each other.
Ford complaining about sales being taken away from the best selling vehicle in the US is like the son of a candy store owner complaining about not having enough sugar
I love my 23 XL hybrid maverick. Got 12k on it, and averaging over 40mpg. Just enough truck for what I need, it can carry 1,000lbs in the bed with no problem, and unlike the Santa Cruz, my mountain bike fits in the bed with a closed tailgate.
I can't believe that the hybrid king - Toyota - didn't jump on the popularity the Maverick. Could still make a killing with an AWD hybrid that gets 35+ mpg.
Every brand could have a compact truck. Use their crossover. The Maverick is based on the Bronco Sport. The Santa Cruz is based on the Tucson. If they’re doing compact, it’s not about towing but the “lifestyle” truck. As of now everyone is hauling the same amount of air in the full size, the Santa Cruz is $25k less than a full size. Same fuel economy or better with the smaller displacement powertrain.
I’m a GM guy and you’re right. I’ve got a 2023 Colorado that’s had a bricked battery twice and now a bursted valve in the transmission. So yes GM sure is stupid
For real. If these manufacturers really feel the need to make something “EPA friendly” They need to do a hybrid or an efficient gas engine or I’m not buying. Ev is garbage
You said it, bro. Funny thing, I used to be OK with the whole EV thing, but now I'm in total opposition. Don't try to force crap on us! We don't want crap. We want something that works and works well.
So how do you know that is always going to be the case? There have already been strides in reducing recharge times....isn't it reasonable to expect more?
Nobody wants that junk. These car companies have totally lost their mind. If you're gonna bring back something like the little S-10 put the little turbo charged four-cylinder in it with rollup Pendas and a work floorboard in it keep the price around 30 K and they would not even be able to keep up with production as fast as they would sell
Datsuns - Nissan ,Toyota , org chevy s/10 , ford ranger most single cab 6' box a true compact mini pickup . we all drove in the late 70s -1990s a camper top shell and off to the desert or river for the weekend
All of the truck manufacturers were still making standard cab, 6' bed, small trucks worth buying up to about 2010. Nissan and Toyota held out the longest with the Frontier and Tacoma. I drive a 2007 GMC Canyon standard cab with a 6' bed that I use to haul stuff around in all the time for my business. I have no desire to replace it with a new 4-door short bed midsize truck or a full-size truck.
@@palebeachbum ford and chevy still build . full-size short bed 6.5 box Nissan frontier king cab and Toyotas new 2024 Tacoma is available in a extra cab with 6 ' box only Trucks id consider
"They started expensive"..yea but legend had it that ford was who made them affordable and made them fast enought to meet the then demand. Today, some ppl may want electric but not sure for trucks..trucks are mainly used for work, working people dont have a couple hours in the day to spend parked at a random parking lot to get it charged. Who ever buys an electric truck will be your hobby guy or weekend warrior i think. Thoughts?
I think you're right, overall, but EVs can charge from 20% to 80% in about 18mins with a fast charger. I still agree with your point that work truck folks aren't going to stand around for 18mins for 60% total usable range. Time is money.
I think that is the issue Tommy missed in historical analysis, ICE vehicles offered all new level convenience (over horse and buggy) that made it appealing to over the inconvenience of the lack of infrastructure. EVs don't per se offer an overabundance convenience for people, and in some arguments, it is harder for masses than ICE vehicles, and that does not include the increase in price.
@@tcs07dNot to mention we now compared to those days, have alternatives, very convenient GAS vehicles ☺. Tommy loves to push the mass agenda. Cool for innovation, not always practical.
There are a lot of fleet trucks that don’t drive over 150 miles/day and are then parked overnight for 12 hours or more, enabling them to easily fully charge at a pretty cheap rate (not at a public fast charger). This is one example of where electric trucks make a lot of sense.
I'm not ready for any type of electric vehicle. The infrastructure and the time to charge is not there for me. Not to mention the horror stories of what it cost to replace a battery. And I don't know about you, but the spontaneous combusting battery pack worries me just a little too.
An easy way for automakers to raise the prices of larger models. Release a 'small' truck at what looks like a "good" price (in todays over inflated market) then bump the price the next year (ie Maverick) and raise prices of larger models since they now have a vehicle in a new segment.
I think the main reason people went crazy for the Maverick was the $21,500 starting price (including destination). It now starts at over $25k and it's very spartan. Equip it like a base Santa Cruze, which has much nicer interior quality, and it's no longer an amazing value.
90% of people/businessses who want/need a small truck do not want one with limited range, unreliability, insane maintenance/repair costs, and safety issues. We need inexpensive, reliable, easy to maintain small trucks for real world work. Right now we use Tacos which are awesome with the exception of price. If a company makes a reliable, capable, easy to maintain small truck like the little Nissans/Toyotas/Mazdas/Rangers of the mid 90’s to early 00’s for $25k or less, they would literally be printing their own $. They would sell like hotcakes.
The discussion should be on, how do we get the government out of this area of the automotive world? Diminishing returns are a thing, government is pushing this EV BS, the market doesn’t want it because we know it’s not there yet.
The big thing that I think you guys get wrong is that some Americans like to keep vehicles for 15 to 20 years and I don't think electric will do that any time soon
Electrification is a 100 year old pipedream. Electric vehicles create 5 times the carbon to make and the materials can't be recycled! There needs to be more options than just electric for alternatives to ICE engines.
@@aussie2uGA I am concerned that the " green" vehicle is being sold as a lie. Also, I am concerned that the technology isn't there for EV's to keep their promises. We hear about 500 mile range but we never get it. As a truck enthusiast I won't go to an EV until I am forced to. EV trucks can't do truck things like tow long distances, or do heavy hauling over long distances. I'm just not sold on them and never will be.
@@patriottex4813 Buy a good electric chainsaw and play around with it. You’ll soon start to realize electric motors now offer immense instant power, always starting, always running, needs zero motor or battery maintenance. Also if a zombie apocalypse happens, you can power any battery from solar panels. If refineries are shut down or gas prices go prohibitive, you have a slow charging but effective backup plan.
@@phileasler5401I ordered a XLT Maverick hybrid in 2022. Twenty months later and with a MSRP $5400 higher than when I ordered it arrived at the dealership. I passed.
GM always gets it wrong. Cimmaron, Fiero, Catera, G8 (great car, poor timing), new Blazer, Aurora, W-Body, the FWD Monte Carlo, ignition-gate. It is refreshing to hear them admit to their mistakes… but it doesn’t change they are out of touch.
GM for the US Marketing team is losing a big sales opportunity with the Chevy Montana, I think it would even surpass sales of the Colorado if instead of an I3, make it a 1.4L turbo or 1.8L non Turbo
With dying and crumbling EV sales I can't figure out why the manufacturers are still playing with batteries. It's almost like these manufacturers need to dye to get rebuilt to go back to their origins to figure out what people actually want. And let me tell you, as a Montanan, I do not endorse the Montana vehicle.
I rather see a diesel option. Like the Toyota Hilux. I have a Silverado with the Duramax and get 31 mpg highway. A small truck would hopefully do better and not cost as much as a full-size.
Sorry, but those new mini trucks are stupid with almost non-existent beds. Build something like the 90s Ford Ranger extended cab with at least a 6.5 foot bed, and a real manual transmission and I'm in.
For those of us in flyover-land that don't live in the bigger cities, PHEV is a great alternative. Toyota seems to have figured that out and they are big enough to stand up to the politicians. I have had an EV, a PHEV, and now back to a Silverado Z71 half ton. It just works.
Still driving my 29 year old '95 Chevy S10 ZR2, regular cab, 6 foot bed. V6 gas engine averages 18 mpg. It's a light truck, about 3500 lbs. but has proven to be fairly tough over the years. The 6 foot bed is more useful than the tiny beds on the the newer more modern pickup trucks. I sleep in the bed with the topper on when camping. Our mountain bikes fit in the bed with the tires attached and I don't have to hang the bikes over the tailgate like I see people resorting to with their modern trucks. I can also reach into the bed from the side to retrieve items. My truck does have a simple computer system operating the fuel delivery and monitoring emissions sensors. GM cannot track my whereabouts or driving habits to sell to my insurance company. If GM wants to survive, they will need to produce an actual small pickup truck, not a small sedan without a trunk lid and not a "midsize " pickup that's really not midsized.
agree the chevy i knew when i was young is only in the trucks for now . but the rest of the company yuck, duplicate models that are identical , now more imports from south korea . gone the days of the classic buick sedans .
@@SolidSnake_1776 Yes, the renders look great, but they have no financial backing, no engineers, no industry experience. I wish it was a real company behind the designs.
Nobody ever talks about the other EV elephant on the couch. They are horrendous to anyone that services and maintains their own vehicles. As a shade tree mechanic, EV or PHEV is a nightmare. Even gasoline vehicles are getting worse, but they at least can still be maintained by the common person with a little knowhow and a cheap obd reader.
I don't mind the idea of the modern compact trucks being electric. It makes more sense for them to be full EV vs the likes of a full size. I do think that a single cap compact would be a misstep though. The maverick being a city vehicle, a city truck, designed more for city stuff over truck stuff seems like it would be a mistake cutting down its people carrying capacity.
With a lot of stories coming out about the problems with electric vehicles I want to have a choice about which type of vehicle I buy. I don't want to be forced to buy a vehicle I can't afford and one that in time will be expensive to maintain. Check out the price of a replacement battery pack or a replacement electric motor. Also as tax revenue from gas sales decreases electricity prices will go up a lot to pay for the lost revenue and to pay for the infrastructure to support electrification.
Toyota doesn't do competitive pricing. Everything they make cost thousands more than their competitors when comparably equipped. I'm not saying it's not worth it. I'm just saying they don't do competitive pricing.
My favorite combo, Tommy and Nathan are such a great duo who provide fantastic balance without trying to assert any dominance of opinion or tell each other they are wrong. Would love to hear these two on the podcast together a bit more. Choice is awesome, I think the best route is simply more small trucks, let the market decide EV or ICE, make both on prior platforms then make the refined product in a few years when the best future is clearer.
I have seen several small truck designs online, but they may only be computer generated images and wishful thinking. There is talk about several mid-sized trucks like a Kia truck, Chevy El Camino, GMC Syclone, Subaru Baja, Toyota Stout, and new designs for the Hyundai Santa Cruz, and Honda Ridgeline.
Set up charging stations and provide adapters to the plug for people to charge their vehicles at home. In my state, there are NO charging stations at all.
I love you guys, but I hate the comparison of EV’s with the model T. EV’s predated the model T and they will fail now for the same reason they failed then. Energy storage. Batteries suck and are not the answer. Electric motors sure, but batteries are just bad all around no matter what way you look at it.
The whole model t no gas stations argument fails because you can put a gas station anywhere even with the worst possible power grid. You can't do that with ev chargers and the infrastructure just isn't there for it. We don't produce enough energy for demand now just imagine trying to shove a bunch of ev chargers into a already under delivering power supply. And people who don't have garages or at the very least a driveway upto the their home aren't going to be able to add home chargers which means most city people will be forced to wait in long lines at charging stations. Rapid charging is bad for batteries so either you wait longer or shorten the lifespan of your expensive to replace battery. It's also not sustainable since the materials for the batteries are extremely limited in availability and create far more damage and pollution getting them then drilling for oil. California who's pushing this ev bs the most can't produce enough power to avoid rolling brownouts during the summers and even tells people not to charge their ev's. That's a huge clue this is already a failed idea and makes you wonder why they're still pushing it. It's not about fixing the environment, it's about controlling you.
I would like to see a plug in hybrid as an option. It can cover a fair bit of around town miles, but doesn't impact road trips. It covers a lot of the EV complaints until charging an EV is more popular.
EV cars are okay for commuting. They can be aerodynamic and power efficient. EV trucks are not fulfilling the needs of the primary buyer. They're not efficient vehicles and this is horrible when they're used as work trucks. I realize not everyone uses one as a work truck, but those who do can't have battery only EVs. Until the battery tech improves to the point of recharging in sub 5 minutes and lasts longer than 500 miles, they can't satisfy the needs of this market. That's just a fact. Non-plugin hybrids are the way to go in my opinion.
It's disingenuous to equate the development of EVs with the history of ICE, given that electric cars date back to the 1880s. EVs development is more akin to nuclear fusion; perennially "x" years away from the big breakthrough.
"IF" I could charge 150 miles in 10 mins AND have chargers available and reliable I'd consider electric. Having to wait an 30, 40, 60 mins in a line for a charger then wait 25 to 40 mins for enough range is a non starter. I don't care what propels me as long as I'm not inconvenienced. Side note. I like the idea of solar panels in the roof that gives 4-6 miles of range/day. I dont commute to work so that would suit me.
1:53 “people might start buying them”, uh, a reg cab EV would only travel 150 miles if they priced it at $23,000 or less. It would end up being bought up by urban businesses and not available to public (nor practical for regular commuters/workers).
To this day, my dad talks about how much he loved this old Chevy Love he owned back when Jesus walked with dinosaurs.
I had a 1982 Luv with the 2.2 diesel engine, that thing would get around 42ish miles per gallon.
chevy L.U.V. built by Isuzu 1972-83
@@youtubecarspottersguide1
Yes, & when it broke parts were extremely hard to find & extremely expensive, that's 90% of the reason I got rid of mine.
See lol that’s how much I know about that truck and how long ago that was! I didn’t even know how to spell the name
Like Rock....Bob Segar@@youtubecarspottersguide1
Truck Bros don't want ev. They want affordable trucks
Affordable and reliable
Trucks generate profits. If you keep buying them at the current prices, you’ll never get anything but the same.
I guess tell them to stop feeding the full-size luxury truck market.
Truck prices are like food prices, they both keep going up!!
I've driven a pickup for 30 years and I would gladly drive an electric truck, especially a small 4wd for running around the property
They could just stop charging full-size truck prices on mid-size pickups. I bet they sell more. But I'm interested in what they bring to the table.
It's all the Federally mandated tech that is required to be on modern vehicles that drive up the cost. Plus the fact that there is a lot of luxury comfort and tech that costs money to design and produce.
I'm sure if a plain Jane truck was built, you could absolutely get a full-sized truck for mid-sized price. But you won't like its barebones lack of modern tech and options.
@@Uberragen21 nah its greed. A screen and some sensors dont cost 20k , doesnt even cost them 2k. They will charge you 20k for the uptick though. ITs pure greed
It's mostly just greed, there's no way that these car companies don't have meetings and make market adjustments based on what the rest of them are doing. Kind of like a silent pact. A lot of companies do it That's why you tend to see the smaller successful ones get gobbled up by the larger ones.
I agree there may be some more options however even a mid-level mid-size truck is 15K if not more over
I think if manufacturers started charging less for midsize, it would cannibalize the full size market.
Thinking about it, when a midsize costs $45-50k and a full size is not much more, a buyer would think it’s almost foolish to pay that much for a smaller truck when you can get the full size for just a few thousand more. It’s the “bang for the buck” attitude a lot of American consumers have, and manufacturers count on it.
Conversely, if the midsize was more cost effective, they would fly off the lots because these current midsize models are equivalent to the full size of 15 years ago, and they’re incredibly more capable than ever before.
However, in the real world, those who want a midsize will pay dearly for the midsize. In a perfect world, the midsize would still be within reach…but this is far from perfect.
I feel like if gm cut most of their suvs and replaced it with a 4Runner competitor with a decent engine and off-road prowess they’d makes tons of money
I want the S-10 back. It was the perfect small truck. And fit it with a V6 option. Manual EVERYTHING.
The lack of a Maverick competitor beyond the Santa Cruz at this point is shocking. I really expected at least one or two more competitors.
I think it's because the switch to electric is so expensive, the only way to do it is build for the luxury market exclusively. Reality is setting in and Ford, GM realize it isn't sustainable. The cost has to go down or we'll see major manufacturers going broke. We'll be left with what we see for so many other consumables - made in China!
@@alsnow3582That's exactly what is happening. China controls the means of production and western politicians are playing right into their hands.
I guess because sales are not that good?
The competition already exists, down here in Brazil the Maverick is up against the Chevrolet Montana, RAM Rampage, Fiat Toro and Renault Oroch.
Or maybe they couldn't sell it in the US because most of these trucks performed badly in a crash test.
@@alsnow3582 An affordable compact pickup never had to be EV-only or EV at all
I bet GMs tiny truck is over 30k.
Try $80k
@@K24Z3CU2 don’t be dumb
@@DeepDishPizza wait and see. It's a battery operated car.
“Our EV Silverado will be affordable.”
Starting price: $90K
@@DeepDishPizza 😂 don’t be dumb because a Colorado was supposed to be a cheap affordable truck. Now it will cost you $80,000 after all said and done. Interest taxes tabs license insurance. $80 k allll day long
More tiny trucks! Please! You had me at inexpensive small pickup, but as someone without a place to charge at home or work it is unrealistic. It's nice to think they want to make a truck for the average person, but don't tether them to an outlet.
Thankyou, exactly. I live in an apartment and have for the past 12 years, never once had a place to charge. Also electric vehicles cost a fortune.
yes like our old datsun-Nissan , Toyotas from the 1970-80 s single cab or maybe larger king cab and a 6' box not all of us want a crew cab and a 5' pickup box thats why I dont like todays pickups , I want to add a camper shell /topper for a lil weekend camper as im not lifting dogs up into a roof top tent
Yes, but with actual body on frame small trucks, not unibody. A small body on frame truck wpuld be fun to turn into an offroader or a sports truck.
I do appreciate the electric updates. I dont see any demand any time soon for electric vehicles, not at a profitable scale. And you’re right, the real issue is lack of charging stations but no one wants to wait at a charging station for 30 mins or likely more to finish their field trip. Battery technology is not far enough along to be dependable. I see constant articles of electric vehicles leaving people stranded because they stopped working in very cold conditions.
the car companies can stick there Duracell battery cars up there.......
Fud
Electric will never be the answer simply because they are actually worse for the environment. Not to mention the technology is not there. And it's all about control anyway. When they want you at home, boom shut down the power. How you gonna charge them.
You see propaganda from news media funded by oil companies, car dealerships and automakers, who all make more off you continuing to buy ICE vehicles
The Alpha Wolf has been teased for years and years now....like Tommy, I'll believe it when I see it. I don't think the startup market has an appetite for another 'hip' EV startup. We'll be lucky to see Canoo make it to production and they're much farther along with orders on the books.
I'd love to see Nissan go back to old school days style Trucks and use the 9speed
I thought the Colorado was supposed to be the small truck. That's what it used to be. They should make a cheap durable truck with no tech. Make it less than 19k new. Nobody wants a truck that can be metered and monitored or shut off remotely.
The Colorado is a mid-size - compact pickups went away because of prohibitively stupid EPA regulations(manufacturers basically got punished for building smaller trucks and given leeway to build bigger trucks, made NO sense; TTAC had a great article explaining this a while ago, "How CAFE Killed Compact Trucks And Station Wagons"). That's why the Maverick is a CUV with a bed & hybrid option instead of a more traditional compact body-on-frame like the classic Ranger was before moving up to mid-size, for the fuel economy target.
Im ok with a non-plugin hybrid. You know why...cuz they actually work!!
I believe this is where Ford screwed up. They should have made an EV Maverick, instead of the F150 Lightning. Maverick is more of a commuter vehicle, where EVs shine. On full sized trucks, the limitations on EVs become apparent: can't tow for example.I can see a full Maverick line: ICE, plug in hybrid, and full EVs.
I have been saying the same thing for a couple of years. EV are great as commuter vehicles. I never understood why these companies built these huge, wasteful Electric SUVs and Trucks. You are still using a ton of energy to pull all that weight around. Build small efficient vehicles that work best for the intended purpose.
That was the original plan. Ford wanted an entire Maverick family. Including a fully enclosed model. Limitations on production capacity have been the biggest issue. They've been trying to remedy that, but there isn't a quick fix.
The other thing is, they have the Powerboost. We have ours and love it, but would love say 20-30mi plug-in range. I get the weight of the batteries is there, but maybe use the 2.7V6 as the engine instead of the 3.5 to save weight, or something.
Or Toyota, the hybrid authority.
Instead, the Ramcharger is coming in eating their lunch. Reliability of that will be questionable, but still.
Plug in hybrid is the sweet spot for the maverick with a Toyota style awd system. I love my hybrid maverick but I'd love a plug in even more.
An F150 lightning CAN TOW. It tows much better that a gas truck. You dum dum
I help start the mini truck craze in the 70's. Great times. I own 73 Chevy luv close to museum quality with a L48 under the hood.
I own a 2022 Maverick Lariat FX/4. Getting 27 mpg all around. I haul cement blocks, concrete, planting trees, bags of dirt, and rock. I have recalls I have to get done, but this truck is fine for me. I just live 45 miles from a Ford dealership, so I have to make the time.
About 3 months ago I traded my 2014 raptor I had for ten years for a 2024 lightning and could not be happier. I used a truck for its bed and not its towing so it really worked out great, over 300 miles of range and just took a trip the normally takes 7hours and it took 8 with charging but instead of paying over $300 in gas it only took $49 in power so a over $250 savings for a extra hour of my life is worth it in my opinion. I ate and enjoyed the break in driving. Plus it’s way faster than 6.2 v8 raptor. I hated electric vehicles until I owned one now idk if I can go back. I’m excited to see more affordable electric trucks coming.
Good luck with that 300 Mike range in the winter…
I drove a company F150 Lightning 2-3 days a week for my job.
It was fine for 3 seasons, winter time completely different story.
When it’s raining, snowing, cold,
And you are running the heater, wipers a lot, the battery sucks down quickly.
Summer I could drive it, start stop etc, just fine most of the day. Plug it in at the end of the day.
Winter, some bad winter days was parking it by 2:00-3:00 to recharge, and getting back in a gas F250 to finish my rounds.
This was 2-3 years ago. When company bought a few Lightning’s to test them out.
I came to the conclusion they weren’t for me, not here in Utah, not with our winters.
When these MSRPs get close to each other this always happens. Remember when the domestic ranger was cancelled? Then when they get to dealerships with add ons and markyps the smaller truck is priced like the larger truck with the gas mileage that is close to each other.
The ranger was canceled because it took sales away from Ford’s flagship vehicle the F150 so they discontinued it.
The Ranger in Australia has a 6-cylinder diesel and gets 28 MPG.
Ford complaining about sales being taken away from the best selling vehicle in the US is like the son of a candy store owner complaining about not having enough sugar
I love my 23 XL hybrid maverick. Got 12k on it, and averaging over 40mpg. Just enough truck for what I need, it can carry 1,000lbs in the bed with no problem, and unlike the Santa Cruz, my mountain bike fits in the bed with a closed tailgate.
I can't believe that the hybrid king - Toyota - didn't jump on the popularity the Maverick. Could still make a killing with an AWD hybrid that gets 35+ mpg.
Alpha Wolf has been vaporware for several years...if they actually build it as shown I'll buy it, but I'm not holding my breath.
Seems that they are too busy making renderings and plastic model trucks to make REAL trucks.
Every brand could have a compact truck. Use their crossover. The Maverick is based on the Bronco Sport. The Santa Cruz is based on the Tucson.
If they’re doing compact, it’s not about towing but the “lifestyle” truck. As of now everyone is hauling the same amount of air in the full size, the Santa Cruz is $25k less than a full size. Same fuel economy or better with the smaller displacement powertrain.
If gm killed it they really are stupid!!
It's what they do, I'm not a hater ima gm guy.
I’m a GM guy and you’re right. I’ve got a 2023 Colorado that’s had a bricked battery twice and now a bursted valve in the transmission. So yes GM sure is stupid
@@brianmola711NO IT AINT SOOOOOOO
They really are stupid
You lost me at "it's electric"👎
😂 if EVs aint selling, truck EVs would be the least sold. Why?
For real. If these manufacturers really feel the need to make something “EPA friendly”
They need to do a hybrid or an efficient gas engine or I’m not buying.
Ev is garbage
You said it, bro. Funny thing, I used to be OK with the whole EV thing, but now I'm in total opposition. Don't try to force crap on us! We don't want crap. We want something that works and works well.
🤦
@jadoriffic EVs are a joke. A wannabe car. Its more of a toy. Not there yet 😄
That Wolf truck would be awesome with a gas model as well!!
yes a true compac mini pickup add a camper shell and a fun lil weekend camper like the old Datsun-Nissan , Toyota pickups from the 1980s
No matter how many charging stations there are, you still have to deal with wait times vs. a few minutes to fuel your tank.
So how do you know that is always going to be the case? There have already been strides in reducing recharge times....isn't it reasonable to expect more?
@@blang38Until it's not the case, It is the case.
I have a Maverick hybrid and I love it... it regularly gets 38 to 40 miles to the gallon and is comfortable
Nobody wants that junk. These car companies have totally lost their mind.
If you're gonna bring back something like the little S-10 put the little turbo charged four-cylinder in it with rollup Pendas and a work floorboard in it keep the price around 30 K and they would not even be able to keep up with production as fast as they would sell
we still aren't seeing affordable EVs. 50k-60k is not affordable. the model 3 was promised to be 35k and it was never 35k.
Musk has a habit of making a lot of false claims
Current RWD Tesla 3s are under 35k (after tax credits).
Chevy Volts were under 30k, and Nissan Leafs are still under 30k (BEFORE tax credits)
Difference between no gas stations and no ev stations is that the govt did not build and finance the gas stations
The best thing Ford did was build to order with the Maverick. I got what wanted at a comfortable price without unwanted add on and dealer markup.
All i want is a small truck with a 6ft box. Why is that so hard?
Datsuns - Nissan ,Toyota , org chevy s/10 , ford ranger most single cab 6' box a true compact mini pickup . we all drove in the late 70s -1990s a camper top shell and off to the desert or river for the weekend
All of the truck manufacturers were still making standard cab, 6' bed, small trucks worth buying up to about 2010. Nissan and Toyota held out the longest with the Frontier and Tacoma. I drive a 2007 GMC Canyon standard cab with a 6' bed that I use to haul stuff around in all the time for my business. I have no desire to replace it with a new 4-door short bed midsize truck or a full-size truck.
@@palebeachbum ford and chevy still build . full-size short bed 6.5 box Nissan frontier king cab and Toyotas new 2024 Tacoma is available in a extra cab with 6 ' box only Trucks id consider
@@youtubecarspottersguide1 if I was in the market, the Tacoma and Frontier would be the only trucks on my shopping list for that reason.
And they had a real frame, not based on a front wheel drive unibody crossover.
"They started expensive"..yea but legend had it that ford was who made them affordable and made them fast enought to meet the then demand. Today, some ppl may want electric but not sure for trucks..trucks are mainly used for work, working people dont have a couple hours in the day to spend parked at a random parking lot to get it charged. Who ever buys an electric truck will be your hobby guy or weekend warrior i think. Thoughts?
I think you're right, overall, but EVs can charge from 20% to 80% in about 18mins with a fast charger. I still agree with your point that work truck folks aren't going to stand around for 18mins for 60% total usable range. Time is money.
I think that is the issue Tommy missed in historical analysis, ICE vehicles offered all new level convenience (over horse and buggy) that made it appealing to over the inconvenience of the lack of infrastructure. EVs don't per se offer an overabundance convenience for people, and in some arguments, it is harder for masses than ICE vehicles, and that does not include the increase in price.
"Sorry boss, i ran out of Juice".. "on my way to the other site". lol "Go head and take the day off, and charge your truck" 😄
@@tcs07dNot to mention we now compared to those days, have alternatives, very convenient GAS vehicles ☺. Tommy loves to push the mass agenda. Cool for innovation, not always practical.
There are a lot of fleet trucks that don’t drive over 150 miles/day and are then parked overnight for 12 hours or more, enabling them to easily fully charge at a pretty cheap rate (not at a public fast charger). This is one example of where electric trucks make a lot of sense.
didn't make it far into this one when I saw it was going to be a EV discussion.
Keep feeding that horse hay…
@@phileasler5401 Keep hoping for unicorns and rainbows with your coal power.
The only reason tiny trucks are getting popular is because of the outrageous prices on full sized trucks😳
I'm not ready for any type of electric vehicle. The infrastructure and the time to charge is not there for me.
Not to mention the horror stories of what it cost to replace a battery. And I don't know about you, but the spontaneous combusting battery pack worries me just a little too.
An easy way for automakers to raise the prices of larger models. Release a 'small' truck at what looks like a "good" price (in todays over inflated market) then bump the price the next year (ie Maverick) and raise prices of larger models since they now have a vehicle in a new segment.
I think the main reason people went crazy for the Maverick was the $21,500 starting price (including destination). It now starts at over $25k and it's very spartan. Equip it like a base Santa Cruze, which has much nicer interior quality, and it's no longer an amazing value.
Bring back the Chevy Luv pickup from the 70's
90% of people/businessses who want/need a small truck do not want one with limited range, unreliability, insane maintenance/repair costs, and safety issues. We need inexpensive, reliable, easy to maintain small trucks for real world work. Right now we use Tacos which are awesome with the exception of price. If a company makes a reliable, capable, easy to maintain small truck like the little Nissans/Toyotas/Mazdas/Rangers of the mid 90’s to early 00’s for $25k or less, they would literally be printing their own $. They would sell like hotcakes.
The discussion should be on, how do we get the government out of this area of the automotive world? Diminishing returns are a thing, government is pushing this EV BS, the market doesn’t want it because we know it’s not there yet.
Um....there is a market, and it's growing. I agree there shouldn't be mandates, but don't push false narratives.
The big thing that I think you guys get wrong is that some Americans like to keep vehicles for 15 to 20 years and I don't think electric will do that any time soon
Still driving my 29 year old '95 Chevy S10 ZR2, regular cab, 6 foot bed.
Electrification is a 100 year old pipedream. Electric vehicles create 5 times the carbon to make and the materials can't be recycled! There needs to be more options than just electric for alternatives to ICE engines.
Are people that concerned with “green”? Buying the a/c electric motor vehicle brings immense instant torque, a real joy for an enthusiast.
@@aussie2uGA I am concerned that the " green" vehicle is being sold as a lie. Also, I am concerned that the technology isn't there for EV's to keep their promises. We hear about 500 mile range but we never get it. As a truck enthusiast I won't go to an EV until I am forced to.
EV trucks can't do truck things like tow long distances, or do heavy hauling over long distances. I'm just not sold on them and never will be.
Batteries are recycled. Maybe try a bit of research before regurgitating brainless FUD.
@@patriottex4813 Buy a good electric chainsaw and play around with it. You’ll soon start to realize electric motors now offer immense instant power, always starting, always running, needs zero motor or battery maintenance. Also if a zombie apocalypse happens, you can power any battery from solar panels. If refineries are shut down or gas prices go prohibitive, you have a slow charging but effective backup plan.
I would love every brand to make a cool tiny truck. 4x4 with lockers. V6 or turbo 4s.
V8. I'm taking your Man-Card for asking for a 4-banger😑
I like the small simplistic ones. Hopefully at least one of those small retro designs pulls through at the 15k price point, perhaps hybrid.
$15K 😂
I'm down for a single cab as long as it has a long bed
They won't do it, and Ford will keep raking in the money on the Maverick.
I remember the compact Dodge D-50 trucks... pretty sure it was Mitsubishi motor
Yeah I remember those, I don’t think Dodge even made it, it was imported.
It was a Mitsubishi.
IIRC it was all Mitsubishi.
D-50 was an awesome truck. 80” bed which made it between a short bed and long bed compact.
It was a Mitsubishi Mighty Max clone. Always liked them both.
If they were to build a small gas non-turbo truck they would see their sales go up.
When is the hybrid santa cruz coming? 😊
still can’t find a Maverick at or below MSRP in my area.
Here’s a secret on the Maverick, order it….
@@phileasler5401I ordered a XLT Maverick hybrid in 2022. Twenty months later and with a MSRP $5400 higher than when I ordered it arrived at the dealership. I passed.
GM always gets it wrong.
Cimmaron, Fiero, Catera, G8 (great car, poor timing), new Blazer, Aurora, W-Body, the FWD Monte Carlo, ignition-gate.
It is refreshing to hear them admit to their mistakes… but it doesn’t change they are out of touch.
If there’s a wrong way to do something, GM is the company to do it
@@WaynePittengerNOOOOOOOOOPE
i love my hybrid maverick. i only wish it was available as a hybrid AWD. hopefully the new tacoma hybrid sparks some competition in the space!
GM for the US Marketing team is losing a big sales opportunity with the Chevy Montana, I think it would even surpass sales of the Colorado if instead of an I3, make it a 1.4L turbo or 1.8L non Turbo
With dying and crumbling EV sales I can't figure out why the manufacturers are still playing with batteries.
It's almost like these manufacturers need to dye to get rebuilt to go back to their origins to figure out what people actually want.
And let me tell you, as a Montanan, I do not endorse the Montana vehicle.
I rather see a diesel option. Like the Toyota Hilux. I have a Silverado with the Duramax and get 31 mpg highway. A small truck would hopefully do better and not cost as much as a full-size.
choices!
Thats the right thing to do!
Thank you for the great comment Nathan!
Tommy's last comment. Always skeptical and reserved until it is out there being produced and sold. 👍
Sorry, but those new mini trucks are stupid with almost non-existent beds. Build something like the 90s Ford Ranger extended cab with at least a 6.5 foot bed, and a real manual transmission and I'm in.
Why not just bring the Chevy Montana to the US Market?
For those of us in flyover-land that don't live in the bigger cities, PHEV is a great alternative. Toyota seems to have figured that out and they are big enough to stand up to the politicians. I have had an EV, a PHEV, and now back to a Silverado Z71 half ton. It just works.
Still driving my 29 year old '95 Chevy S10 ZR2, regular cab, 6 foot bed. V6 gas engine averages 18 mpg. It's a light truck, about 3500 lbs. but has proven to be fairly tough over the years. The 6 foot bed is more useful than the tiny beds on the the newer more modern pickup trucks. I sleep in the bed with the topper on when camping. Our mountain bikes fit in the bed with the tires attached and I don't have to hang the bikes over the tailgate like I see people resorting to with their modern trucks. I can also reach into the bed from the side to retrieve items. My truck does have a simple computer system operating the fuel delivery and monitoring emissions sensors. GM cannot track my whereabouts or driving habits to sell to my insurance company. If GM wants to survive, they will need to produce an actual small pickup truck, not a small sedan without a trunk lid and not a "midsize " pickup that's really not midsized.
Chevy simply isnt a serious car company. Every GM car or truck ive ridden in is crap. They should have never been bailed out.
Best selling brand in North America for about 90 years. But not a serious company. Ok, makes sense.
Anyone buying their crap needs to remember the ignition switch
Are you serious....still bringing up the bail out. Get over it already...in case you missed it....loan paid back...fact.
@@blang38 not really, fact
agree the chevy i knew when i was young is only in the trucks for now . but the rest of the company yuck,
duplicate models that are identical , now more imports from south korea .
gone the days of the classic buick sedans .
I've followed the Alpha wolf stuff for some time now. Their all of their concepts are so cool looking.
It is easy to make a render look cool if you are not worried about minor things like actually building it.
@@TroySavary I don't disagree. I like EV meets retro vibes of them but not sure how far they will ever go.
@@SolidSnake_1776 Yes, the renders look great, but they have no financial backing, no engineers, no industry experience. I wish it was a real company behind the designs.
Nobody ever talks about the other EV elephant on the couch. They are horrendous to anyone that services and maintains their own vehicles. As a shade tree mechanic, EV or PHEV is a nightmare. Even gasoline vehicles are getting worse, but they at least can still be maintained by the common person with a little knowhow and a cheap obd reader.
The love for baby trucks is rooted in Back to the Future, right Nathan? I know it was for me. ❤
2:06 chevy sante cruz
I don't mind the idea of the modern compact trucks being electric. It makes more sense for them to be full EV vs the likes of a full size. I do think that a single cap compact would be a misstep though. The maverick being a city vehicle, a city truck, designed more for city stuff over truck stuff seems like it would be a mistake cutting down its people carrying capacity.
No.
People don't buy GM trucks because they want to be able to get home without a tow truck.
Still hoping toyota makes one for NA market. Id sell a kidbey for a toyota awd hybrid tiny truck.
No EVs, Chevy. No way.
With a lot of stories coming out about the problems with electric vehicles I want to have a choice about which type of vehicle I buy. I don't want to be forced to buy a vehicle I can't afford and one that in time will be expensive to maintain. Check out the price of a replacement battery pack or a replacement electric motor. Also as tax revenue from gas sales decreases electricity prices will go up a lot to pay for the lost revenue and to pay for the infrastructure to support electrification.
It’s simple, Toyota. Just give us a Maverick competitor with hybrid AND all wheel drive at a reasonable, competitive price. End of story.
Toyota doesn't do competitive pricing. Everything they make cost thousands more than their competitors when comparably equipped. I'm not saying it's not worth it. I'm just saying they don't do competitive pricing.
@@palebeachbumthat varies by segment of vehicles Toyota offers.
My favorite combo, Tommy and Nathan are such a great duo who provide fantastic balance without trying to assert any dominance of opinion or tell each other they are wrong. Would love to hear these two on the podcast together a bit more.
Choice is awesome, I think the best route is simply more small trucks, let the market decide EV or ICE, make both on prior platforms then make the refined product in a few years when the best future is clearer.
The Alphawolf looks amazing, and a lot like a 1979 - 1982 Plymouth Arrow/Dodge D50.
I have seen several small truck designs online, but they may only be computer generated images and wishful thinking. There is talk about several mid-sized trucks like a Kia truck, Chevy El Camino, GMC Syclone, Subaru Baja, Toyota Stout, and new designs for the Hyundai Santa Cruz, and Honda Ridgeline.
Set up charging stations and provide adapters to the plug for people to charge their vehicles at home. In my state, there are NO charging stations at all.
plug-ins defeat the purpose of going with a hybrid , we need to get off the grid that cant handle regular use
I’m gonna sell both my 6.2 Denali & 6.2 Cadillac to buy an EV just to annoy these comment sections 🤣🤣
If Subaru brought back the brat I would trade my car for it.
LOL. The EV truck in the desert makes me laugh. Nice promo video before it gets back on the trailer.
I love you guys, but I hate the comparison of EV’s with the model T. EV’s predated the model T and they will fail now for the same reason they failed then. Energy storage. Batteries suck and are not the answer. Electric motors sure, but batteries are just bad all around no matter what way you look at it.
Choice is best. I love the new options that we may be seeing soon! Keep feeding us the news on these small trucks!!
Wow super excited for the wolf! Keep us posted
The people that wanted electric cars have bought them really nobody else is interested at any price
A tiny electric truck will have poor capacity due to the weight of the battery, poor range or both.
The whole model t no gas stations argument fails because you can put a gas station anywhere even with the worst possible power grid. You can't do that with ev chargers and the infrastructure just isn't there for it. We don't produce enough energy for demand now just imagine trying to shove a bunch of ev chargers into a already under delivering power supply.
And people who don't have garages or at the very least a driveway upto the their home aren't going to be able to add home chargers which means most city people will be forced to wait in long lines at charging stations. Rapid charging is bad for batteries so either you wait longer or shorten the lifespan of your expensive to replace battery.
It's also not sustainable since the materials for the batteries are extremely limited in availability and create far more damage and pollution getting them then drilling for oil.
California who's pushing this ev bs the most can't produce enough power to avoid rolling brownouts during the summers and even tells people not to charge their ev's. That's a huge clue this is already a failed idea and makes you wonder why they're still pushing it. It's not about fixing the environment, it's about controlling you.
Great show
I love my 2022 Maverick. I would trade it in a heartbeat for an electric small pickup. That alpha Wolf looks amazing!
I would like to see a plug in hybrid as an option. It can cover a fair bit of around town miles, but doesn't impact road trips. It covers a lot of the EV complaints until charging an EV is more popular.
Those are not trucks they are cars with beds
and that's what most ppl need 😂
EV cars are okay for commuting. They can be aerodynamic and power efficient.
EV trucks are not fulfilling the needs of the primary buyer. They're not efficient vehicles and this is horrible when they're used as work trucks.
I realize not everyone uses one as a work truck, but those who do can't have battery only EVs. Until the battery tech improves to the point of recharging in sub 5 minutes and lasts longer than 500 miles, they can't satisfy the needs of this market.
That's just a fact.
Non-plugin hybrids are the way to go in my opinion.
The Chevy Luv is making a comeback!
One: Chevy...... Two: Electric..... Three: Booooo!
Bottom line, the battery technology is not there and it's not worth the money for an average user.
I would consider trading my 2013 Tacoma for a stout
Super interested in a smaller truck/van/suv EV platform. Stripped down, basic but solid.
It's disingenuous to equate the development of EVs with the history of ICE, given that electric cars date back to the 1880s. EVs development is more akin to nuclear fusion; perennially "x" years away from the big breakthrough.
So it turns out that even those who have read history were forced by the OEMs to repeat it....
"IF" I could charge 150 miles in 10 mins AND have chargers available and reliable I'd consider electric. Having to wait an 30, 40, 60 mins in a line for a charger then wait 25 to 40 mins for enough range is a non starter. I don't care what propels me as long as I'm not inconvenienced. Side note. I like the idea of solar panels in the roof that gives 4-6 miles of range/day. I dont commute to work so that would suit me.
The second I heard electric i was crushed :(
I think their biggest appeal is the price. Esp when compared to full size trucks that require a 30 year mortgage.
So this is basically the s10 electric resurrected from the 90s. It’s not really new at all. GM killed it in the 90s with the EV1. They’ll do it again.
1:53 “people might start buying them”, uh, a reg cab EV would only travel 150 miles if they priced it at $23,000 or less. It would end up being bought up by urban businesses and not available to public (nor practical for regular commuters/workers).