The Real Reason We Won't Get Chevy's Montana (Or Any Other Small Trucks) Is CAFE
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- The 2023 Chevrolet Montana is an adorable small truck that's never coming to the USA. It's not because of the 1.2L engine, or that Americans aren't interested in small trucks, it's that fuel economy legislation effectively prevents small trucks from happening. What about the Maverick? It's not as small as you think. CAFE, or Corporate Average Fuel Economy is the real reason trucks in America are all at least a specific dimension. Here's how it works and why it means no tiny trucks for us.
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Chevy: “Let’s build a small pickup and call it Montana, and not sell it in USA.”
Everyone: …
Well it's build for the South American market
Montaña is Mountain in Spanish
Montanha is also Mountain in Portuguese
@@Argedis didn't even think of that, but we're talking about the American [USA] Market, and Alex on Autos pronounced it like the state of Montana, and not Montaña
🤨😒
@@Argedis they better add that squiggly N (Ñ)on the production model
@@ricecakeboii94 The Pontiac Montana was sold in Latin America and had a Mountain in the logo. No squiggly line lol
So CAFE punishes light trucks harshly while letting big trucks off the hook, relatively speaking. CAFE incentivizes larger trucks/SUVs.
EU does the same, just with cars. Light cars get punished and are dying in EU.
Exactly, that's why REAL compact trucks like the 1st gen Tacoma, Chevy S10, Ford Ranger went away.
Also why regular cab midsize trucks also no longer exist.
CAFE has been ruining cool vehicles for a long time.
Well if you consider a 2026 swb f-150 achieving 37mpg “off the hook”… really need to just get rid of the cafe standards, consumers will naturally prefer vehicles with better fuel economy relative to the segment they are shopping in
@@rwh_ I think consumer choices within all classes but economy sedans pretty clearly show that power and size are usually chosen over fuel economy. It would change if we had a much higher gas tax, a higher gas guzzler threshold that also applied to trucks, or other incentives at the consumer level to choose efficiency.
@ryanhicks65 It's not that impossible if Ford makes a 2.7 ecoboost based plug in hybrid with something like a 50 mile range
As an auto dealer, I can assure you these things would sell like hot cakes here in the US if marketed with an attractive price like the Maverick. If they’d stick some of their existing hybrid powertrains in as options, so much the better. Much respect for your analysis here Alex, maybe they can figure a way to work around all this CAFE stuff.
Don't rely on government regulations to improve. Nothing more inefficient, slow and wasteful then government!
CAFE is the reason why real compact trucks like the 1st gen Tacoma, Chevy S10, Ford Ranger, etc no longer exist.
Also why they stopped making regular cab midsize trucks like in the Tacoma.
We would have many cool vehicles if it weren't for CAFE
The workaround is to make them BEV or PHEV.
Small electric trucks might be able to substitute for it.
But the problem is that even Ford is souring the milk on the Maverick. The price for the most popular Maverick, the 40mpg hybrid, has massively increased. Not only because of $10K markups from dealers, but Ford themselves have taken the once cheaper hybrid powertrain and made it far more expensive than the turbo engine.
The major effects of the footprint-based CAFE standards are a greater percentage of larger (thus also heavier and taller) vehicles on the road, WORSE average fuel economy, and more danger and discomfort on the road for everyone not driving the largest class of vehicles. Our collective fuel use is higher and risk of serious injury or death is higher due poorly designed law-I suspect the poor design was largely due to the persuasion of manufacturers, because it's cheaper to make a vehicle larger than more efficient, and people will pay more for larger size than greater efficiency. On a personal note, I happen to like small cars, but I don't fault anyone for liking big trucks and I don't think they should be outlawed or anything. But over the last 10-15 years the size differential between my small-to-average cars and most other vehicles means I can't see traffic ahead if I'm following, I am constantly blinded at night, I am always viscerally aware of how much physical harm I would suffer if I collided with most other vehicles, and, I believe, I am given less "courtesy" because lots of people drive as if size dictates right of way.
could not have said it better! you're 100% right!
The goal was always to protect the american brand fullsize truck sales from competition by not allowing a free market and making smaller, more efficient models unable to compete. That is the purpose of CAFE.
@TheMrDudiness I'm talking about change over time due to CAFE, not outright percentage, and a big part of that change is the size growth WITHIN vehicle classes. And why do you think RAV4 is tops? People who want a "small," "efficient" car but want the added height so as not to feel towered over by trucks. But that RAV4 is heavier with worse fuel economy than its siblings Camry and Corolla.
Perfect example is the Honda civic. Once was an actual compact car, very small, high seller. Today its the same size as a 90s accord, if not bigger.
☝🙂👍👏👏 RIGHT ON !
This is a great explanation of not just why we can't have small trucks, but also why all our F-150/Ram/Tundra/Silverado models are getting *huge*. Let's them get away with lower fuel economy. Which sucks - because I don't want to have to reach overhead just to get something in the bed of my truck! Seems like fixing the curve on CAFE could help a number of things while still meeting the overall goal...
So basically they incentivize manufacturers to make bigger vehicles, which use MORE gas, thus doing the exact opposite of what they were trying to do. Great job government
Most informative car channel on UA-cam.
The Maverick is disguised very well for its size. Most comparisons are against the F150 which led to my thought that it was smaller than it is. Very good explanation of CAFE.
Yeah it's bigger than the old Ranger and S10.
Great video Alex. Straightforward and concise. So basically the system is flawed so we are all forced to drive full size pickups even if we would prefer something smaller. Any chance you and your fellow automotive UA-camrs can help educate the lawmakers? I'm sure Pete B would be willing to listen.
Very sadly, It is not really a question of educating the lawmakers. It is more a question of paying off the lawmakers.
Great analysis of CAFE. I remember when it was passed.
I wonder if passenger car CAFE is similar so there is no way to get the Chevrolet Cavalier, Onix or Aveo (sold in Mexico currently)
Alex, Thanks for the clear, cogent history of CAFE. A cynic might come to the conclusion the original regulations have been warped by lobbyists to encourage the manufacture of gas guzzling pickups from the Detroit 3 more than the production of fuel efficient vehicles. While I won't miss the Chevrolet Hannah Montana, a single cab Hilux would have been a nice addition to the small pickup market.😉
You'd think with the success of the Maverick and Santa Cruz they'd figure out a way to build it here.
Because they wouldn't? It's a pick-up car meant to fight the VW Savero and FIAT Strada in the South America market. It's not to fight Ford Maverick and Hyundai Santa Cruz (and FIAT Toro), those are pick-up trucks.
Also there's alamedas, the smallest bits of drivable roads that are at least 3.71 meters wide and rarely a truck or big car can drive across them; and yes, these roads are greenlit for driving and they're a solid 1/3 of South American roads, hence the need for pick-up cars.
I remember the Oil Embargo because it was the year before I started school and my parents owned 2 cars- one was odd plate the other was an even plate and every day my mom & I would sit in line at the gas station to get our 10 gallons of gas and my dad would drive that vehicle to work the next day while we took the other vehicle and sat in line for 10 gallons. The vehicles? A 1966 Chevelle SS396 that got something like 8 or 9 mpg and the other was a 1973 Chevy 3/4 ton stepside pickup that on a good day got 7 or 8 mpg. Dad's commute was 80 miles/day. After about 6 months of that, Dad sold the Chevelle and bought a 6 months-old used Chevy Vega Kammack -- in Jack O'Lantern Orange with a black vinyl interior that got something like 16 mpg!
I’m old enough to remember small trucks like the S10 and original ranger. So what needs to happen is the cafe needs to be updated.
I feel like CAFE is run by an old boys club. Guys who probably haven't touched a smartphone before, never been on the internet and are still using windows 93 because it works...
man, i don't mind the apprentice on your channel, but you still do it better
So the CAFE standard was made to push more fuel-efficient vehicles. It's simultaneously responsible for bigger and bigger vehicles. Seems like it helped as much as it hurt. There had to of been a better way than this. They're telling us we can't all these smaller and more fuel-efficient trucks because they're not big enough... So, manufacturers flood the market with bigger and LESS fuel-efficient vehicles. Government will never cease to amaze at how well they screw things up.
You may want to consider how lobbyists and political donations/bribes have distorted the original legislation over the decades.
@@rightlanehog3151 Likely 70% of the people that made the original are still the ones accepting the bribes.
Thank you for this clear and concise explanation of how CAFE affects the car market. It has been 10 years since I first heard that CAFE killed off the affordable compact truck market, and in that decade this is the first explanation that made me understand why. My guess, based on the rapid acceleration of CAFE standards for the 2024 and up model years, is that manufacturers will have to make more of their commodity vehicles hybrids.
One thing that has bugged me recently is the disappearance of practical and efficient subcompacts. E.g., good-bye Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris, Ford Fiesta, Chevrolet Sonic, &c. Will the CAFE standards also make subcompacts that are not hybrids/PHEVs "unachievable," as you call it? I.e., will the last surviving cheap, ICE-powered subcompacts all disappear in two years? Signs seem to point to yes.
Also, CAFE seems to make it harder for small-volume manufacturers to sell commodity-priced vehicles. I'm looking at you, Mazda. What will become of Mazda? Their R and D budget is dwarfed by others, and their electrified vehicle offerings are practically nonexistent apart from the limited run of the MX-30. Does this mean that the Mazda3 will continue to get more expensive? Or does Mazda have a desperate plan to offer hybrids in addition to its paltry EV offering? Or, will they take a page out of the Mitsubishi playbook, and try to merge their efforts with a bigger car company like Nissan or Toyota? Time will tell.
So glad Hyundai released the Santa Cruz truck. Its nice and a great foundation to build on.
CAFE also killed station wagons, as manufacturers would rather sell you same sized SUV, because that counts as a light truck and not a car.
You are making me feel old. I remember the embargo and had just started to drive in 1975…
Many say this is too small but back in the 70s the chevy luv (and others) , smaller and less powerful than this, sold like the proverbial hotcakes. Just make these, and almost all vehicles, hybrids. Mpg issue solved
I still want to see new kei trucks/vans be sold in the usa ether classed an atv or a super compact class vehicle
The 1st "cars" I bought were actually, small cheap Toyota PU in the 1980's. Given your explanation I wonder if a a company like Nissan could take a Leaf and design a cheap, sub compact sized electric truck? Something like the VW Rabbit truck from way back when. Just something for suburbanites to run errands, haul bikes, and short commutes.
One of many reasons that CAFE is a terrible metric that needs a major overhaul. I understand it's goal, but the structure prevents innovation and rather arbitrarily limits development.
i would wonder what is stopping them to alter some poorly thought through standards... maybe it would introduce competition they don't need
Specially since it would greatly benefit American truck manufacturers like GM and Ford
The goal was always to protect the american brand fullsize truck sales from competition by not allowing a free market and making smaller, more efficient models unable to compete. That is the purpose of CAFE.
@@Mgoblagulkablong Free markets don't exist unless you mean free *to be manipulated* markets.
Disagree with that statement
LOL: CAFE = "Why we can't have nice things." Great explanation of a bureaucratic boondoggle. Increasing the gas tax would be economically more effective than fuel economy standards.
11:07 “Also” is misspelled as “aslo”.
Sorry to be that guy, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. 😊
Love your channel, Alex!
I didn't realize that they fine based on a FLAT $/mpg fee. That's bonkers. So a car that gets 40mpg but a Cafe of 50mpg uses half the fuel but is fined twice as much as a truck that gets 20mpg if it has a CAFE of 25mpg. This is beyond broken, it's intentionally corrupted
My dad had a 72 C10. He had a business and always needed a pickup. Of course this was when trucks were trucks and not luxury vehicles. If he were alive today he would be laughing his ass off at the pickup truck foolishness. You don't need a great big truck to haul the occasional dresser. Trucks are now status symbols, so strange.
Sad but true.
Very interesting. I had no idea this is one of the reasons we don't have small trucks. My assumption was "we're Americans, we want everything BIG". That my be true, but apparently, not entirely true.
We need more of these videos. Amazing
Love it! So often people speak out of their behinds, not Alex! I always figured people we're being unreasonable about the price of fuel, and that accounting for inflation, we weren't really that worse off than in the past. And again, people like to always blame democrats for environmental regulations, but fail to realize that many of those infamous regulations were passed by Republican administrations.
Let's face it, GM doesn't make the best choices 🤣
The best explanation of ANYTHING I’ve heard in a long time. Alex, great job!
Love the explanation, but there are lots of spelling mistakes in the textual explanations.
So they are recycling a old name plate from Pontiac because at one time the Montana name was on the back of a Pontiac mini van
Would be better to tax them per weight, fuel economy and exhaust. A heavy vehicle with bad economy and a dirty engine should cost more than a light, efficient one with a "clean" engine.
EV's would get around the exhaust part but fall mostly on the weight.
That wheelbase based calculation is pretty messed up biasing for larger vehicles. Big win for big oil for that whole time.
I've been aware of the corporate average fuel economy for a while, but not to this level. When I had a prius and I saw a tacoma/tundra/4runner, I always thought they should be thanking me for making their ride possible.
Ive said for years CAFE needs to be revisited, especially with Utes like the Montana. The Santa Cruz has proven that people want vehicles like this..
Hopefully EVs will lead to the rebirth of small pickup trucks!
Ford is pushing the maverick hybrid?
Have you tried to buy one recently?
Café did work, but now they should base be on not just the gas or the energy, but in general, but the weight of the vehicle
This is what caused the death of the regular cab Tacoma
Alex, thank you; I was just schooled.
Very informative, thank you. Is the auto stop/start we see on vehicles today part of CAFE?
Or course it is. Anything that supposedly improves fuel economy goes toward meeting the CAFE requirement.
I am very impressed with your indept analysis
Greater % of larger vehicles...worse fuel economy...higher fuel use...etc. Sounds like, possibly, the oil companies crafted this CAFE deal?
Life my ford hybrid 41
To 52 mpg go ford
So it seems like the policy may be more effective if the penalties scaled with either price or size to properly discourage luxury and large vehicles.
I did not know this US rules. 🇧🇷
Ford just need to put a e-axle on the rear of the maverick it would be a fine truck for 80 percent of the population!
Thank you Alex. I learned alot
Is this another reason why all the gardeners and maintenance men and women use tiny 1980's Toyota trucks with graphics on the sides as work vehicles? Those trucks must be indestructible to last so long. I am curious if you did a segment on those trucks, just fascinating to me.
What is the solution, though? I really want to kow.
Well explained Alex!! As always!
CAFE don’t matter because American’s love small cars and trucks, except when it comes time to buy one.
@Alex on Autos What about SUV / crossovers, there are plenty of small models, are there different rules for them?
It depends on the classification, but this is why we find hybrids in the RAV4, CRV, Escape, etc, EV versions of the Kona and Niro, a standard hybrid in the Niro, and small engines and CVTs in others. Some companies just pay the CAFE fines as well, so Mazda and Subaru are likely simply paying fines.
@@AAutoBuyersGuide If manufacturers can offer models such as Ecosport, Venue, Kona, Soul, Trax, Trailblazer, Renegade, Kicks, CHR, etc. why cant they offer them with a bed in the back, otherwise identical, what's the difference?
My 22 tundra averages 14.6 but I don’t baby it
Why are American’s allergic to a simple increase to the gas tax instead?
Thanks Alex!
Dodge had a 4-door truck in the 1960s. THE USAF USED THEM ON THE FLIGHTLINES.
*It's about time the US gov't does what We The People want...and most people do NOT want the idiotic regulations
we have right now, whether it regards overreaching safety regulations, or things like CAFE....We need to get rid of most gov't in the USA once again!*
This explains ALOT!! thanks Alex
If Hyundai can build the Santa Cruz, why can't the Trio of Detroit can't ???
great video
great info
MPG ON THE MONTANA?????????????
GM won't answer the success of the Maverick with a North American made small pickup of their own. That crazy woman running the show is too busy pushing electrication for everything for that to happen.
Bingo.
Montana was the minivan, I believe you meant the Sonoma.
Montana is the current small truck in South America...
"Montana" *was* a minivan, but now GM uses the nameplate on this small truck that they don't sell in the U.S.
I never understood the tiny truck movement. It's useless as a truck. FWD? Just get a cross-over at that point.
GM who, whatever the so called general comes from a car company in another country no doubt,I hope they go under, their making a fortune selling their nameplates on somebody else,s cars, they can get away with it the UK Europe, Asia and even south Africa, but we Americans are used to seeing real Buicks Cadillacs and Chevrolets, not what you can get away with selling as Chevys Buicks and Cadillacs.
I don’t like the fact the Maverick and the Santa Cruz have 4 doors. Give me two doors and a longer bed. I’d rather have an SUV with a trailer than a 4 door tiny truck
2035 no more gas engines?
There will be plenty of gas and diesel options in 2035...
@@AAutoBuyersGuide
2023 will need more Hybrids since China is opening up and OPEC is cutting back, so gas prices is going to rise. USA will refuel the SBR in february. Great time to be selling Hybrid vehicles.
just make it EV 🥺
I don’t want an “adorable” motor vehicle, particularly a truck. It has about a three and a half foot bed and limited storage otherwise. A vehicle of this size can have a genuine 5-6 foot bed presuming all space isn’t turned into passenger room. The CAFE standards are Byzantine.
It’s a Hyundai face. Come on, why always copy cat out there.
If CAFE didn't exist, maybe the price of a new car/truck wouldn't be so high. Cutting bulk and excess material would surely save cost.
So what if Chevy brought back a car-based pickup like the ElCamino? Would that work as a loophole for the CAFE requirements?
Sadly no because it would comply as a light truck still. Although that's a loophole anyway since the sedan requirements are higher.
See why I like this channel? It's like going to school without going the school. I'm convinced that Alex was previously a teacher.
. I'm glad you learned, but more importantly learn how to organize information..which Alex does really well.
My 22 tundra averages 14.6 but I don’t baby it
Chicken tax? Nope. GM could easily built small trucks like this in Mexico and have similar production costs to Brazil. The real problem is CAFE, because building it in Mexico wouldn't increase fuel economy. Add a hybrid system? Sure, but then it'd be a much smaller truck than the Maverick for the same price, or more since it would need to meet higher MPG targets than a Maverick. Until CAFE gets tweaked we won't see tiny trucks that aren't PHEVs or EVs...
Alex, you ought to know that manufacturers save up to 90% on wage costs in Mexico and then pass NONE of the savings on to the customer. The end result is the perpetual exploitation of Mexican workers, perpetual threat to the American and Canadian manufacturing base and continuous rip off of customers. Maybe that is a topic for another video.
😂 I really wish someone would make a PHEV or EV small truck, that would be really ideal for me!
I think this CAFE needs to be revisited with more economic sense than what it was back in 2007.
I'm thinking that it will only make things MORE expensive. Once a politician finds money he can steal, there's no going back.
It needs to be disposed of, same with all the overreaching safety regulations and emissions laws as well.
Life has changed in the USA and people cannot afford these excessive regulations anymore.
No, it needs to be done away with completely, along with a million other pages of regulation.
@@watershed44 I totally agree. I don't agree with California's CARB it's way overreach in regards of emission. I dislike all the distraction with tablet like infotainment as well.
If a group that's not your Big Gov elected officials came up with something to replace CAFE, it's much more likely to actually make sense. Those elected officials are typically short on sense of any kind, especially common sense.
I'm old enough to remember the gas lines and the even/ odd days based on your license plate when you could get gas.
I was 6 that year but I remember it. I associate that with Jimmy Carter, the leader of Big Gov incompetence in the 1970's.
The F-150 generates 90% of Ford profits - CAFE gives the big 3 a reason to keep pushing these larger and more profitable vehicles - I find it hard to believe the big 3 were not lobbying heavily for CAFE's current criteria - smaller vehicles would be less profitable
Parked my 2014 Flex next to a Maverick at Lowes today. Nearly the same size. Which is good for me, but definitely not 'small'. Also explains why the short wheel base transit connect disappeared.
Transit Connect had its own issues in the US because of the “Chicken Tax”-a 25% tax levied on imported light trucks and vans.
Isn't it comforting to know that politicians occupy such an important position on our vehicle design teams.
Leave it to our gov't to eff us over in the end. This thing, the CAFE and Chicken Tax needs revisited and tweaked to make it more appropriate for today.
Excellent content, Alex. CAFE continues to exist today because the politics of raising gasoline taxes as a means to increase fuel efficiency is a non-starter. Raising gas taxes would be the least distorting way to increase efficiency but is also the most transparent way. CAFE standards effectively hide these costs in vehicle prices.
I love videos like this. Very informative. Love to listen while on patrol. Thank you Alex! 🫶🏽🙏🏽
I never even thought about this. This is why I subscribe to Alex.
Really well done explanation on CAFE rules. Automakers really should share this video when they explain why they don't offer vehicles that many people want such as regular cab trucks, and compact trucks and kei car sized cars that people living in the city would love to have. I own a 250" long truck so to me the Maverick is sub-compact, but I get the frustration.
Anyone remember the Pontiac Montana minivan?
I had successfully forgotten about that for years 😉
So they created a bill that didn't solve anything.....
The original bill was absolutely successful in more than doubling fleet mpg over a decade. Lobbyists and puppets managed to bend it out of shape in the decades that followed.
Great video! I'm still holding on to my 1997 Toyota Tacoma because I love its small size.
With how well the Ford Maverick is doing and Toyota is going to be making a small stuck...I but they will jump in.
I’ve always wondered why GM and Ram couldn’t build a next gen regular cab, standard box V8 powered pickup until I found out about CAFE, lucky Mexico still produces the GM twins’ regular cab Cheyenne V8 and Sierra V8 while Ram completely erased plans for a next gen update.
Alex ALWAYS knows his stuff. Alex ALWAYS explains things very well and understandably. He is great!
Does average refer to the average of the models? Or the average of actual car sold?
Glad you mentioned the Maverick is not a compact truck. It's very much mid-sized, like a Chevy Colorado. We will never have trucks the size of the old Ranger.