Well yeah, it's the same reason the lower half of ships have a red paint job up until a certain point of depth to show how high and low the ship is in the water depending on it's cargo weight. If a piece of machinery has red paint on certain parts of it, there's probably a good reason.
@@Ostan-jw2bg The red of the ship's underwater colour actually has a different reason: This paint is a biocide paint to keep marine life from sticking to the hull. One of the common older biocides used was copper(I)oxide, so it was red anyway: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:CopperIoxide.jpg
Nothing unique about that paint scheme; Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, pretty much all Balkan countries, Hungary, Romania, Russia, Ukraine and the rest of Baltic countries are all using red running gear on therir steam locomotives. You can also add Italy and Spain to that.
Italian State Railways also painted their steam locomotives black and red, with white wheel rims, another colour that allows instant crack detection. The early electric locomotives followed the same practice, but using brown above the running board.
I always found it interesting how different regions developed different trends in liveries. In the UK there were a lot of bright and vibrant color schemes with detailed lining for aesthetic reasons, in the US steam locomotives were overwhelmingly painted black for its durability and to better hide dirt and grime, Germany seems to have gotten somewhere between the two with the red and black combination.
But black is _awful_ at hiding dirt -- ask anyone with a black car. Pretty sure they were painting steam locomotives black simply because it's cheap and, as you say, durable.
@@beeble2003 Or maybe they did, either way when the main thing that gets your locomotive dirty is coal dust, black is probably the best color to hide it.
A question most of us British steam fans have wondered at some time. I'd always figured it was for visibility. (Like rellow warning panels on UK diesels and electrics, or the standard British red buffer beam). I never thought of it for the highlighting of cracks or other damage.
Our Danish Steam Locomotives were typically painted black with black underframes and wheels, yellow lettering and lining, and the Danish flag around its funnel. We also took over a lot of Swedish locomotives, even the large Pacific-esque Litra E, which drove the last steam-powered train in Denmark before steam was abolished in 1970
@@antonberglund117 | Ni talar sannolikt om samma sak. Dvs. de svenska ångloken littera F fick hos DSB istället littera E. 🙃 Om jag sedan inte missminner mig helt så var det väl även två DSB littera E (alltså f.d. SJ littera F) som drog tåget med kung Frederik IX:s kista på dess sista färd 1972.
@@antonberglund117 Exactly, but here DSB renamed them Litra E. We took over a lot of them after SJ wanted to electrify their railway system. Some of those have also pulled royal funeral trains
Another interesting question will be about the classic GREEN color of passenger coaches (used until '70-'80) from different European countries (Germany, France, Switzerland, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Yugoslavia, Romania, Greece and probably others).
Mein Englisch ist zwar nicht mehr so gut aber was ich verstanden habe war gut erklärt! 👍🏼 Übrigens, dieses Rot wurde nach dem Farbschema als RAL 3000 (Feuerrot) und nach 1952 als RAL 3002 (Karminrot) bezeichnet. (Wir Deutschen sind da ganz genau😂😂😂) Grüße...
I’ve noticed that many counties starting from Germany and eastwards all have the black and red scheme. The Germans have it, the Poles have it, the countries in the former Soviet Union have it, all the way up with China, where it is the standard for all steam locomotives. Other than painting the loco all black I think it is one of (if not) the most common steam locomotive paint scheme out there.
Fun fact: the haulage company "FERCAM" in the "EU" used to paint their trailers in this "railway brake dust - grey brown" to save money instead of washing them! You only notice whether the trailers are clean or not when you touch them. The best way to tell is if the tires are black and don't have this dirty coating on them. Nowadays they are just grey, they must have gotten a beating from their customers and the railway companies because they were ALWAYS so dirty.
Found your channel recently and now I'm stuck here. I like your videos and find them very helpful and educative. I live in Germany for about an year and I've been a train enthusiast my whole life, si your channel is awesome for me. Thanks!
The Great Northern Railway of Ireland painted the inside of the frames and the inside motion red for similar reasons. Also, industrial equipment with cast iron or steel bodies where there are internal oil baths are always painted red. Again, likely to allow cracks to be seen but also to ensure that any casting debris or porous sections were sealed off.
Industrial sewing machines have very complicated castings and are usually not painted. The first oil change is loaded with sand and the drain magnet gets packed with shavings. The worst ones are the triple feed cylinder bed machines
It's interesting how the OBB, the Austrian State Railways, took the opposite stance, taking considerable pride in painting their locomotives pure black. To imply that an Austrian engine, even one of German origin, was ever painted red, is something of an insult.
A lot of people forget that red lead paint would effectively protect the underlying steel much better than subsequent pigments. The only thing that comes close is cadmium red. Red iron oxide, offers almost no protection to rust in comparison, it's more so there to cover up any that develops.
I just love the German steam locomotive colour scheme. There is something special about black and red I cannot explain. But maybe I love the colours because I love the locomotives.
Danke für das Video! gedacht hatte ich sowas schon, aber es noch mal so ausführlich zu hören und lesen, hier gehen ja auch Untertitel auf deutsch! =) macht Freude! Dir wünsche ich frohe Weihnachtstage viele Grüße aus dem Norden
@@steelbridgemodels Hallo! =) ALLE Deine Videos! =) ) es ist echt so genial was Du eben alles weißt und wie Du es herrüberbringst und ja die Modelle sind aber eine größere Spur als H0? Ich finde es klasse wenn man zu den Modellen auch was weiß, dann guckt man sich die noch mal in Ruhe genau an. UND mit der Sicherheit, da bewundere ich ja die Japaner! mit so 300(?) umher düsen und pünklich und keine Unfälle, so weit ich weiß? Das mit den Radreifen war schon gruselig? da hätte rot anmalen auch nix genützt? UND ja Okrs (WH 40k) glauben fest darann, das rot einfach schneller ist *LOL* vielen Dank für Deine Mühe! viele Grüße Stefan
@@fernlenker Genau, bislang sind das alles nur digital gerenderte Bilder; Fotos von tatsächlich gedruckten Modellen kommen dann hoffentlich später dazu!
Very intersting. Here in Denmark a few railways, mostly smaller independent lines, used red frames and wheels. But generally the standard here was all black. Especially with the state raiwlays apsrt from some gold decoratife highlights and the chimneyband with red and white colours. A lot of independent lines also used chimneybamds.
Until 1906 the Great Western Railway locos painted at Swindon had a similar colour scheme to the Prussians etc. of dark green with red brown frames (though their Wolverhampton works used brown for wheels and frames). The South Eastern and Chatham Railway was another British railway with red brown frames and green upperworks, in Voctorian times many other lines used different shades of red for frames and wheels too.
From experience watching videos about ironclad warships, my first guess was that the red was some sort of anti-corrosion paint, since both were built from ferrous alloys (iron/steel alloys of various grades and heat treatments).
The graphics you use are extremely beautiful. Do you create them by yourself? The Reichsbahn of post war East Germany used bright red on the frame and undercarriage section of the electric locomotives too. The main reason was crack detection. Bright red undercarriage and green superstructure made a very beautiful color scheme. *subscribed*
Interestingly due to years of partitions and prussia developing its rail the most Poland also adapted same paint standards. Tank engines and small diesel shunters even post war were painted in dark green with their chasis and wheels being red. Larger steam engines were black with bright red chasis (most of them came from Prussia/Germany itself like Br52 known as PKP class Ty2 which we got couple thousands.)
When the new scheme was introduced in 1926 it was at first only for new locomotives. Not until around 1928-29 did the DRG start to systematically repaint older locomotives. Since a major overhaul happened roughly every four years or so, this means the very last green locomotives probably dissappeared - either by being repainted or sent to the scrappers - around 1932-33. Furthermore, apparently a very small number of new unity locomotives (Einheitslokomotiven) like the express types BR 01 and 02, and the goods engines type BR 43 and BR 44 did briefly appear in the old green livery. There are a few factory photos from the time where, although they are in black and white, you can see the difference between the black front of the boiler and the slightly lighter coloured rest.
Gutes Video. Deutschland hat ein paar superschicke Loks. Eigene Erfahrung. Hatte schon die 58 311 und 64 518 getroffen und gefilmt. Roll on my fellow German friend.😊❤🎉
I have my own theory. That is as in video mentioned, red paint fade relatively fast. So it has to reapply more frequently. During the repaint job take place, it is also a good and convenient time to inspect any defect as well.
So there was actually a purpose to the red, I always thought it was just for show. A lot of 19th century American locomotives often had red wheels with whitewalls, and for us, that was just for show and making the locomotive look more impressive, that and the countless amounts of stained wood, polished brass, Russian iron boiler jackets, and the endless finely crafted “goddy” lining
The lead pigment is a lot more orange. It was commonly used in shipbuilding. Minium, lead(II,IV) oxide, or "Mennige" in German. It is widely prohibited these days for its toxicity.
While red paint fades quicker when unprotected, the reason why red DB paint fades so quick is because they use very environmentally friendly paint. If you look at modern cars, fading of red paint is not an issue anymore. But car manufacturer don't care about the environment so much. ;)
British steam locomotives use the same red on the inside of the frames. Whilst the outside is often black or a regional colour, red is used inside for the same maintenance reasons.
cheersand thx.i always wondered why the german locos had this "colour scheme"...whereas like in britain wheels and underframes were mostly black in later years.....
Voici les licos à vapeur en France, Grande Bretagne, Tchèquie, Slovaquie, Suisse, Suède....ja suis une adoratrice de loco bavaroise 3/6 toute couleur verte.
The tank crew members until 1945 had the same black colour as train crews of the Reichsbahn. Same reason! Grease and dirt were harder to be seen on black.
This is something I've always wondered about. I have several G-scale models of central European locomotives, including SEG 104 and two different models of 99 4652 _Frank S.,_ one in its iconic bright green over bright red and then one in the classic black and red when it was owned and operated by the Rugen Baderbahn. Now, one thing I find interesting is that some Austrian locomotives had a bright red frame as well. Styrian State Railways No. 2 _Stainz_ has a bright red frame, however Zillertalbahn U-class No. 2 doesn't. At first I assumed that it was due to the S-Bahn's proximity to Germany but when I actually looked up their locations I found that the Zillertalbahn is a lot closer. So what's the actual reason here?
I’ve always liked German steam because of the red. Asking “why the red?” is like asking “why the green?” on British steam boilers or “why the gray?” on Union Pacific passenger steam.
I think red paint was popular everywhere in 1920s and 1930s, not just locomotives, so it's safe to assume that it was pretty cheap. Specifically lead(II,IV) oxide-based paint ("Menninge" in German), which also protected against rust (but it was used paint wooden floors as well). Fin fact: in ancient Rome, lead(II,IV) oxide was mixed into the sand in a circus, to make the blood (which would flow during some performances) less apparent. I don't think that was the reason for locomotives, but, then again... 😀
Wait, wait, wait, the Baureihe 01 was dark green when it was new? I have never seen that before! Are there "whole" pictures somewhere? I only knew of the bright green of 18 201 and the dark brown-red of the Baureihe 05 (and 03?) as the non-black high speed locomotives...
Yes, the class 01 was originally painted green, but only the initial delivery of ten prototypes. The serial machines on the other hand were painted black from the beginning. The same is also true for the classes 02, 43 and 44. Complete pictures of my model will follow with the next video!
Unfortunately, I have to make a correction here. In your report you state that the chassis was initially painted in red-brown (RAL 8012). This is not correct. It was brown-red (RAL 3011), in conjunction with the olive green (RAL 6003) superstructures. This colour scheme was that of the Prussian State Railway and was initially adopted by the newly founded Deutsche Reichsbahn-Gesellschaft (DRG). (Incidentally, the goods wagons at that time were also in brown-red. Only later were they repainted in red-brown). It was not until 1925 that the bogies of the steam locomotives were painted in fire red (RAL 3000) and the superstructures in deep black (RAL 9005). (RAL = Reichsausschuss für Lieferbedingungen [Reich Committee for Terms of Delivery])
Hello @kaiharamzak4810, and others, 1 / Red Oxide was a common railway colour* globally as it was cheap, readily available, and used as an undercoat on metals ( red lead paint was used on wood and plaster as an undercoat ), and it had the added advantage of not showing dirt ( as @axelk4921 notes above in relation to "FERCAM" ) 2 / at the formation of DRG in 1922, the Prussian State Railways/PSb were by far the largest State Railway in Germany, hence initially standardising on the PSb livery made sense. 3 / US locomotives were painted Black because it was the cheapest paint suitable for metal, and did not show grease and oil dirt, and as the Chief Commissioner of the Victorian Railways ( of Australia ) said in 1922, colour paint does not make the locomotive go faster ( ! ) so all locomotives will henceforth be black ! ( VR locomotives were a light green colour, similar to the Great Northern Railway of England. ) 4 / * In Britain, post 1920, battleship grey was a common goods wagon colour due to the availability of war surplus grey paint, variations in widespread use with both the Army and the Navy. ( Many British Railways also used grey pre 1914, again it would have been cheap. ) 5 / if you have ever wondered where leftover paint goes, it ends up in large mixing vats to make black paint, Regards to all from Australia.
@kaiharamzak4810 What source do you base your statement on? All reliable sources I'm aware of - both historical documents and modern publications, like the excellent books by Wolfgang Diener - clearly state red brown, which later became RAL 8013 and after change of recipe the modern RAL 8012. The in the video mentioned contemporary Prussian models back this colour, too. It is unfortunately a common misconception the frames of Prussian locomotives would have been painted brown red or red in general, perpetuated by countless models painted in this colour, but as far as I'm aware of, there is no historic evidence for brown red.
@@steelbridgemodels I am essentially referring to the extensive ‘Lokomotiv Archive’ from the Transpress publishing house. There are also some museum vehicles that were painted exactly according to my statement. As far as Wolfgang Diener is concerned, he quotes a number of secondary sources and tries to harmonise the results. I wouldn't really rely on that. RAL 8013 (red-brown [old]) was only used between 1927 and 1935. (Source: Wikipedia ‘RAL colours’)
I hope im not seeming greedy, but do you upload your gorgeous 3d models? im 3d printing my own passanger cars and such and german diesel trains but i simply cant design my own steam locomotives, as i cant find any good blueprints for half of them. Where do you get your references?
So far I haven't published my models anywhere and while I can't promise anything at the moment, that might change in the future. For references, both drawings and photos, I turn to specialized literature and official publications by railway companies or manufactures.
@@steelbridgemodels Deutsch: Woher kriegen Sie denn die Zeichnungen, aus Bücher der DB oder gibt es die im Internet? English: Where could one get these Drawings, did the German Railway release them in book or digital form?
@noreoalles Teilweise finden sich detaillierte Zeichnungen in Broschüren, die von der jeweiligen Eisenbahn herausgegeben wurden. Die Mehrzahl stammt aber aus Fachliteratur, wie z.B. der Baureihen-Bibliothek des Eisenbahn Kuriers oder der Güterwagen-Reihe von Stefan Carstens. Mit etwas Glück findet man zwar auch Zeichnungen im Internet, zumeist sind es dann aber nur schlechte Scans, weshalb die Anschaffung der gedruckten Veröffentlichungen sich fast immer lohnt.
it was actually the imperial colors that the reichsbahn adapted...black, red and white. freistaat bayern and prussia were the odd ones out until all german territories were united
What I am always wondering: Why do you models always have such a model railway coupler and not a realistic correct one? There is so much effort in the models, I can't imagine that this would be too much compared to the rest of the vehicle :D
Because my models are intended for 3D-printing. My very first ones even had prototypical couplings, but after a lot of back and forth I decided against that and settled on these model couplings, which for me are the best compromise between looks and functionality.
As a German, I may be biased, but I've always wondered why I think our German “Einheitsloks” (standard steam locomotives) are the most beautiful in the world. Apart from the plain livery, they are just so unapologetically technical and unadorned, workhorses that are only beautiful for their raw utility and performance.
Black is terrible for hiding dirt! Most dirt is a mid-toned colour so shows up well against either black or white. Pretty sure black paint was used simply because it's cheap.
The black and red colour scheme is certainly iconic, but I think it's very ubiquitous? As in, were other colours widely used, like for example the green locos shown in the video? Or was the black livery the absolute standard once it was introduced, like the locos couldn't be painted in any other livery? So like in the UK during the BR days we had most steam locos painted black, but green was also widely used, while other locos were painted blue or maroon, examples of all of which are seen in preservation today (to be honest, I think the majority of steam locos running in preservation these days in the UK are painted in their BR liveries, so mostly black or green, which while they're good, at the same time I would rather that more locos that were built in the Grouping and Pre-Grouping eras carried those liveries.)
The red and black was the universal livery for steam locomotives of the German state railway(s) once introduced, but was not a mandatory colour scheme. Private companies to an extent used other liveries and different liveries were also applied to certain state railway locomotives both before and after WW2. Streamliners were for example given several more flashy liveries like beige-and-purple, maroon or deep blue in the pre-war era, and post-WW2 a few experimental locomotives in East Germany (18 314 and 18 201) received a green and red livery with white stripes. The red running gear can be seen as universally present though.
Hmm , so far as I am aware is that the red paint used to be the cheapest one, a reason why ships were often painted red on the underside, comming up during the 1860ties as a waste product of other chemical processes with the added benefit as being resistent in general, at least for the price point.
The contrast between the black and the red makes the Locomotives look so much better.
Here however I woul vote fro french Chapelon Brown, or British dark red. Also USA pacifics in silver yellow something were good.
I like the red and green . See early GWR engines .
Black please. All black. Nothing else will do for a steam locomotive.
As a European, I never got into German model railroads, because I despise that red color. Steam locos are black! ;)
I always assumed red anything on a steam locomotive was because it's pretty. Never thought there was actually logic to the color choices, pretty neat!
Well yeah, it's the same reason the lower half of ships have a red paint job up until a certain point of depth to show how high and low the ship is in the water depending on it's cargo weight. If a piece of machinery has red paint on certain parts of it, there's probably a good reason.
Me too
Nice pfp
@sasori6417 Thanks! Made it myself :)
@@Ostan-jw2bg The red of the ship's underwater colour actually has a different reason: This paint is a biocide paint to keep marine life from sticking to the hull. One of the common older biocides used was copper(I)oxide, so it was red anyway: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:CopperIoxide.jpg
Fascinating! The red and black liveries of the German locomotives are one of the attributes that makes them very unique and attractive in my opinion.
Germans are wonderful people. Kind, smart, hard working and generous. They have always have been.
@@TheBelrick Thank you! That's good to hear.
Nothing unique about that paint scheme; Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, pretty much all Balkan countries, Hungary, Romania, Russia, Ukraine and the rest of Baltic countries are all using red running gear on therir steam locomotives. You can also add Italy and Spain to that.
@@darrylrotrock7816 God bless the Germans and may they liberate themselves as well as all their brothers.
Italian State Railways also painted their steam locomotives black and red, with white wheel rims, another colour that allows instant crack detection. The early electric locomotives followed the same practice, but using brown above the running board.
Black, red and white is the best tricolor combination!
@TheBelrick the old Keiserrech
I was thinking about the same
I always found it interesting how different regions developed different trends in liveries. In the UK there were a lot of bright and vibrant color schemes with detailed lining for aesthetic reasons, in the US steam locomotives were overwhelmingly painted black for its durability and to better hide dirt and grime, Germany seems to have gotten somewhere between the two with the red and black combination.
But black is _awful_ at hiding dirt -- ask anyone with a black car. Pretty sure they were painting steam locomotives black simply because it's cheap and, as you say, durable.
@@beeble2003 Matte black, they weren't using modern high gloss car paint on steam locomotives.
@@beeble2003 Or maybe they did, either way when the main thing that gets your locomotive dirty is coal dust, black is probably the best color to hide it.
@@Jim-qz6vp It's not matte black. If polished it shines quite a lot
@@Jim-qz6vp If the main thing getting locomotives dirty was coal dust, then diesel locomotives would be pretty clean, pretty much all the time.
A question most of us British steam fans have wondered at some time. I'd always figured it was for visibility. (Like rellow warning panels on UK diesels and electrics, or the standard British red buffer beam). I never thought of it for the highlighting of cracks or other damage.
The models shown are simply stunning.
See! Red actualy makes Things faster! Granted making the Paint fade faster, but faster non the less😂
Orkz agree with you! Dakka, dakka, dakka! Waaagh!
Our Danish Steam Locomotives were typically painted black with black underframes and wheels, yellow lettering and lining, and the Danish flag around its funnel. We also took over a lot of Swedish locomotives, even the large Pacific-esque Litra E, which drove the last steam-powered train in Denmark before steam was abolished in 1970
@danishmorgan22 | In Sweden all black steam locomotives was common. Both with the Swedish state railways as well with private companies.
I think you means the Swedish class F-locomotive with the wheel arranged in this order: 4'C2' / 4-6-2.
The Swedish E-class i just D / 0-8-0
@@antonberglund117 | Ni talar sannolikt om samma sak. Dvs. de svenska ångloken littera F fick hos DSB istället littera E. 🙃
Om jag sedan inte missminner mig helt så var det väl även två DSB littera E (alltså f.d. SJ littera F) som drog tåget med kung Frederik IX:s kista på dess sista färd 1972.
@@antonberglund117 Exactly, but here DSB renamed them Litra E. We took over a lot of them after SJ wanted to electrify their railway system. Some of those have also pulled royal funeral trains
Another interesting question will be about the classic GREEN color of passenger coaches (used until '70-'80) from different European countries (Germany, France, Switzerland, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Yugoslavia, Romania, Greece and probably others).
Military green - nothing super surprising or interesting even.
Mein Englisch ist zwar nicht mehr so gut aber was ich verstanden habe war gut erklärt! 👍🏼 Übrigens, dieses Rot wurde nach dem Farbschema als RAL 3000 (Feuerrot) und nach 1952 als RAL 3002 (Karminrot) bezeichnet. (Wir Deutschen sind da ganz genau😂😂😂) Grüße...
Die RAL Farbezeichnungen findet man auch heute noch auf allen technischen Zeichnungen im Maschinenbau (zumindest auf solchen, die was taugen 😅).
I’ve noticed that many counties starting from Germany and eastwards all have the black and red scheme. The Germans have it, the Poles have it, the countries in the former Soviet Union have it, all the way up with China, where it is the standard for all steam locomotives. Other than painting the loco all black I think it is one of (if not) the most common steam locomotive paint scheme out there.
That merits a follow-up episode methinks.
Short and Informative as always
many things i didnt know.
Fun fact: the haulage company "FERCAM" in the "EU" used to paint their trailers in this "railway brake dust - grey brown" to save money instead of washing them! You only notice whether the trailers are clean or not when you touch them. The best way to tell is if the tires are black and don't have this dirty coating on them. Nowadays they are just grey, they must have gotten a beating from their customers and the railway companies because they were ALWAYS so dirty.
Found your channel recently and now I'm stuck here. I like your videos and find them very helpful and educative. I live in Germany for about an year and I've been a train enthusiast my whole life, si your channel is awesome for me. Thanks!
@mihailcioinica
so you speak german? =)
i learned "educative" now, YES that word nails it!
THANK YOU for teaching that
happy Christmas
greetings
@fernlenker no... not speaking German yet. Abba ich lerne :)
Happy Christmas!
@@mihailcioinica =)
The Great Northern Railway of Ireland painted the inside of the frames and the inside motion red for similar reasons. Also, industrial equipment with cast iron or steel bodies where there are internal oil baths are always painted red. Again, likely to allow cracks to be seen but also to ensure that any casting debris or porous sections were sealed off.
The GNRI used a beautiful sky blue paint scheme as well. The GSR bought their paint off the admiralty.
Industrial sewing machines have very complicated castings and are usually not painted. The first oil change is loaded with sand and the drain magnet gets packed with shavings. The worst ones are the triple feed cylinder bed machines
I've always loved the look but the question has always been there without answer. I'm so glad I stumbled across this video. Thank you!
It's interesting how the OBB, the Austrian State Railways, took the opposite stance, taking considerable pride in painting their locomotives pure black. To imply that an Austrian engine, even one of German origin, was ever painted red, is something of an insult.
And yet, years later, their locomotives are red, or before that, very reddish orange.
But öbb engines did have red wheels?
@@bartoszkrawczyk3946 Electric and Diesel units
@@captainevenslower4400 Of course most if not all Austrian steam engines also had red wheels and also other parts painted in red.
Not true. Most if not all Austrian steam engines also had red wheels and also other parts painted in red.
The BEST looking steam locomotives in the World and best engineering.
Wieder sehr interessantes Thema und toll gemachtes Video. Daumen hoch! :)
I've always wondered if there was a deeper idea behind the colour choice and indeed there is, thank you for explaining this!!!
Because it just looks so beautiful 😁
Poland also painted the parts below the running board bright red, but with white accents.
A lot of people forget that red lead paint would effectively protect the underlying steel much better than subsequent pigments. The only thing that comes close is cadmium red. Red iron oxide, offers almost no protection to rust in comparison, it's more so there to cover up any that develops.
I just love the German steam locomotive colour scheme. There is something special about black and red I cannot explain.
But maybe I love the colours because I love the locomotives.
Concise and informative! The red and black is such a striking combo.
Danke für das Video! gedacht hatte ich sowas schon, aber es noch mal so ausführlich zu hören und lesen, hier gehen ja auch Untertitel auf deutsch! =)
macht Freude!
Dir wünsche ich frohe Weihnachtstage
viele Grüße aus dem Norden
Freut mich, dass dir mein Video Freude bereitet hat! Dir ebenso frohe Festtage.
@@steelbridgemodels Hallo! =)
ALLE Deine Videos! =) )
es ist echt so genial was Du eben alles weißt und wie Du es herrüberbringst und ja die Modelle sind aber eine größere Spur als H0?
Ich finde es klasse wenn man zu den Modellen auch was weiß, dann guckt man sich die noch mal in Ruhe genau an.
UND mit der Sicherheit, da bewundere ich ja die Japaner! mit so 300(?) umher düsen und pünklich und keine Unfälle, so weit ich weiß?
Das mit den Radreifen war schon gruselig?
da hätte rot anmalen auch nix genützt?
UND ja Okrs (WH 40k) glauben fest darann, das rot einfach schneller ist *LOL*
vielen Dank für Deine Mühe!
viele Grüße
Stefan
@@fernlenker Danke für Deine lieben Worte! Ja, die Modelle sind deutlich größer und sollen im Maßstab 1:50 3D-gedruckt werden.
@@steelbridgemodels OH HALLO =)
sind das 3D renderRingS(?) also Bilder
die in Deinen Videos zu sehen sind?
@@fernlenker Genau, bislang sind das alles nur digital gerenderte Bilder; Fotos von tatsächlich gedruckten Modellen kommen dann hoffentlich später dazu!
Very intersting. Here in Denmark a few railways, mostly smaller independent lines, used red frames and wheels. But generally the standard here was all black. Especially with the state raiwlays apsrt from some gold decoratife highlights and the chimneyband with red and white colours. A lot of independent lines also used chimneybamds.
Thanks for explaining that! I always wondered about the red paint.
Very interesting reasons for the colors.
Until 1906 the Great Western Railway locos painted at Swindon had a similar colour scheme to the Prussians etc. of dark green with red brown frames (though their Wolverhampton works used brown for wheels and frames). The South Eastern and Chatham Railway was another British railway with red brown frames and green upperworks, in Voctorian times many other lines used different shades of red for frames and wheels too.
From experience watching videos about ironclad warships, my first guess was that the red was some sort of anti-corrosion paint, since both were built from ferrous alloys (iron/steel alloys of various grades and heat treatments).
The graphics you use are extremely beautiful. Do you create them by yourself?
The Reichsbahn of post war East Germany used bright red on the frame and undercarriage section of the electric locomotives too. The main reason was crack detection. Bright red undercarriage and green superstructure made a very beautiful color scheme.
*subscribed*
Thank you! Yes, I create all the models and the renders of them myself. It's a lot of work, but the only way to get them exactly the way I want them.
Interestingly due to years of partitions and prussia developing its rail the most Poland also adapted same paint standards. Tank engines and small diesel shunters even post war were painted in dark green with their chasis and wheels being red. Larger steam engines were black with bright red chasis (most of them came from Prussia/Germany itself like Br52 known as PKP class Ty2 which we got couple thousands.)
When the new scheme was introduced in 1926 it was at first only for new locomotives. Not until around 1928-29 did the DRG start to systematically repaint older locomotives. Since a major overhaul happened roughly every four years or so, this means the very last green locomotives probably dissappeared - either by being repainted or sent to the scrappers - around 1932-33.
Furthermore, apparently a very small number of new unity locomotives (Einheitslokomotiven) like the express types BR 01 and 02, and the goods engines type BR 43 and BR 44 did briefly appear in the old green livery. There are a few factory photos from the time where, although they are in black and white, you can see the difference between the black front of the boiler and the slightly lighter coloured rest.
Gutes Video. Deutschland hat ein paar superschicke Loks. Eigene Erfahrung. Hatte schon die 58 311 und 64 518 getroffen und gefilmt. Roll on my fellow German friend.😊❤🎉
Yes, excellent ....but the Red/Black is VERY distinctive too, a 'trademark' for excellence!
Fascinating. I always wondered about this - question answered - thanks!
My friend and I have often talked about this. Thanks for clarifying 😊
It definitely is more iconic, there is that. Looks unique.
Italy also had its steam locomotive with the same paint scheme: black cab and boiler, and bright red chassis and wheels
I always assumed it was done because it looks good. But structural assessments makes much more sense
Thank you very much for this
0:02 Because it looks good lol
I have my own theory. That is as in video mentioned, red paint fade relatively fast. So it has to reapply more frequently. During the repaint job take place, it is also a good and convenient time to inspect any defect as well.
So there was actually a purpose to the red, I always thought it was just for show. A lot of 19th century American locomotives often had red wheels with whitewalls, and for us, that was just for show and making the locomotive look more impressive, that and the countless amounts of stained wood, polished brass, Russian iron boiler jackets, and the endless finely crafted “goddy” lining
I wonder if the red was red lead pigment, which has excellent covering power due to its flake structure?
The lead pigment is a lot more orange. It was commonly used in shipbuilding. Minium, lead(II,IV) oxide, or "Mennige" in German. It is widely prohibited these days for its toxicity.
That bright red went oily dark black very quickly.
'CUZ DA RED GOEZ FASTA!
While red paint fades quicker when unprotected, the reason why red DB paint fades so quick is because they use very environmentally friendly paint. If you look at modern cars, fading of red paint is not an issue anymore. But car manufacturer don't care about the environment so much. ;)
Eine Br 012 sieht einfach mächtig aus..was ein riesen teil
British steam locomotives use the same red on the inside of the frames. Whilst the outside is often black or a regional colour, red is used inside for the same maintenance reasons.
cheersand thx.i always wondered why the german locos had this "colour scheme"...whereas like in britain wheels and underframes were mostly black in later years.....
Thanks! Very interesting.
Answer is at 3:23
Voici les licos à vapeur en France, Grande Bretagne, Tchèquie, Slovaquie, Suisse, Suède....ja suis une adoratrice de loco bavaroise 3/6 toute couleur verte.
The tank crew members until 1945 had the same black colour as train crews of the Reichsbahn. Same reason! Grease and dirt were harder to be seen on black.
The color used today is called “verkehrsrot“, meaning “traffic red”.
This is something I've always wondered about. I have several G-scale models of central European locomotives, including SEG 104 and two different models of 99 4652 _Frank S.,_ one in its iconic bright green over bright red and then one in the classic black and red when it was owned and operated by the Rugen Baderbahn.
Now, one thing I find interesting is that some Austrian locomotives had a bright red frame as well. Styrian State Railways No. 2 _Stainz_ has a bright red frame, however Zillertalbahn U-class No. 2 doesn't. At first I assumed that it was due to the S-Bahn's proximity to Germany but when I actually looked up their locations I found that the Zillertalbahn is a lot closer. So what's the actual reason here?
I always assumed it was to make the bloodstains less visible
That was a nice Video
Didnt know These fact
Always loved that paint scheme and wondered where it came from. Thanks for explaining it so thoroughly. Some more amazing models aswell!
I’ve always liked German steam because of the red. Asking “why the red?” is like asking “why the green?” on British steam boilers or “why the gray?” on Union Pacific passenger steam.
true
I think red paint was popular everywhere in 1920s and 1930s, not just locomotives, so it's safe to assume that it was pretty cheap. Specifically lead(II,IV) oxide-based paint ("Menninge" in German), which also protected against rust (but it was used paint wooden floors as well).
Fin fact: in ancient Rome, lead(II,IV) oxide was mixed into the sand in a circus, to make the blood (which would flow during some performances) less apparent. I don't think that was the reason for locomotives, but, then again... 😀
The gun decks of war ships were painted red to sort of hide blood during battle.
Poland as well painted the wheels and frame red
Same reason Nelson painted his ship decks red.
A question I have had since moving to Austria in 2002. Thanks.
Well done, Danke schoen...!
Is that were the idea of "red ones go faster" comes from? :-D
Ich liebe dieses Schul-Englisch. Ich fühle mich gleich viel jünger.
and now we all know why most ferraris are red too......
Wait, wait, wait, the Baureihe 01 was dark green when it was new? I have never seen that before! Are there "whole" pictures somewhere?
I only knew of the bright green of 18 201 and the dark brown-red of the Baureihe 05 (and 03?) as the non-black high speed locomotives...
Yes, the class 01 was originally painted green, but only the initial delivery of ten prototypes. The serial machines on the other hand were painted black from the beginning. The same is also true for the classes 02, 43 and 44. Complete pictures of my model will follow with the next video!
Alternative answer: looks cool
Vielen Dank!
I wondered why do SRT steam locomotive have a green boiler, can you explain that?
Unfortunately, I have to make a correction here. In your report you state that the chassis was initially painted in red-brown (RAL 8012). This is not correct. It was brown-red (RAL 3011), in conjunction with the olive green (RAL 6003) superstructures. This colour scheme was that of the Prussian State Railway and was initially adopted by the newly founded Deutsche Reichsbahn-Gesellschaft (DRG). (Incidentally, the goods wagons at that time were also in brown-red. Only later were they repainted in red-brown). It was not until 1925 that the bogies of the steam locomotives were painted in fire red (RAL 3000) and the superstructures in deep black (RAL 9005). (RAL = Reichsausschuss für Lieferbedingungen [Reich Committee for Terms of Delivery])
Hello @kaiharamzak4810, and others, 1 / Red Oxide was a common railway colour* globally as it was cheap, readily available, and used as an undercoat on metals ( red lead paint was used on wood and plaster as an undercoat ), and it had the added advantage of not showing dirt ( as @axelk4921 notes above in relation to "FERCAM" ) 2 / at the formation of DRG in 1922, the Prussian State Railways/PSb were by far the largest State Railway in Germany, hence initially standardising on the PSb livery made sense. 3 / US locomotives were painted Black because it was the cheapest paint suitable for metal, and did not show grease and oil dirt, and as the Chief Commissioner of the Victorian Railways ( of Australia ) said in 1922, colour paint does not make the locomotive go faster ( ! ) so all locomotives will henceforth be black ! ( VR locomotives were a light green colour, similar to the Great Northern Railway of England. ) 4 / * In Britain, post 1920, battleship grey was a common goods wagon colour due to the availability of war surplus grey paint, variations in widespread use with both the Army and the Navy. ( Many British Railways also used grey pre 1914, again it would have been cheap. ) 5 / if you have ever wondered where leftover paint goes, it ends up in large mixing vats to make black paint, Regards to all from Australia.
@kaiharamzak4810 What source do you base your statement on? All reliable sources I'm aware of - both historical documents and modern publications, like the excellent books by Wolfgang Diener - clearly state red brown, which later became RAL 8013 and after change of recipe the modern RAL 8012. The in the video mentioned contemporary Prussian models back this colour, too. It is unfortunately a common misconception the frames of Prussian locomotives would have been painted brown red or red in general, perpetuated by countless models painted in this colour, but as far as I'm aware of, there is no historic evidence for brown red.
@@steelbridgemodels I am essentially referring to the extensive ‘Lokomotiv Archive’ from the Transpress publishing house. There are also some museum vehicles that were painted exactly according to my statement.
As far as Wolfgang Diener is concerned, he quotes a number of secondary sources and tries to harmonise the results. I wouldn't really rely on that.
RAL 8013 (red-brown [old]) was only used between 1927 and 1935. (Source: Wikipedia ‘RAL colours’)
I hope im not seeming greedy, but do you upload your gorgeous 3d models? im 3d printing my own passanger cars and such and german diesel trains but i simply cant design my own steam locomotives, as i cant find any good blueprints for half of them. Where do you get your references?
So far I haven't published my models anywhere and while I can't promise anything at the moment, that might change in the future. For references, both drawings and photos, I turn to specialized literature and official publications by railway companies or manufactures.
@@steelbridgemodels Deutsch: Woher kriegen Sie denn die Zeichnungen, aus Bücher der DB oder gibt es die im Internet?
English: Where could one get these Drawings, did the German Railway release them in book or digital form?
@noreoalles Teilweise finden sich detaillierte Zeichnungen in Broschüren, die von der jeweiligen Eisenbahn herausgegeben wurden. Die Mehrzahl stammt aber aus Fachliteratur, wie z.B. der Baureihen-Bibliothek des Eisenbahn Kuriers oder der Güterwagen-Reihe von Stefan Carstens. Mit etwas Glück findet man zwar auch Zeichnungen im Internet, zumeist sind es dann aber nur schlechte Scans, weshalb die Anschaffung der gedruckten Veröffentlichungen sich fast immer lohnt.
@@steelbridgemodels Danke, dann werde ich mir eines dieser Bücher zulegen müssen. Schönen Tag (:
Is this the same reason why old Mercedes truck chassis painted in red?
it was actually the imperial colors that the reichsbahn adapted...black, red and white. freistaat bayern and prussia were the odd ones out until all german territories were united
What I am always wondering: Why do you models always have such a model railway coupler and not a realistic correct one? There is so much effort in the models, I can't imagine that this would be too much compared to the rest of the vehicle :D
Because my models are intended for 3D-printing. My very first ones even had prototypical couplings, but after a lot of back and forth I decided against that and settled on these model couplings, which for me are the best compromise between looks and functionality.
As a German, I may be biased, but I've always wondered why I think our German “Einheitsloks” (standard steam locomotives) are the most beautiful in the world. Apart from the plain livery, they are just so unapologetically technical and unadorned, workhorses that are only beautiful for their raw utility and performance.
Schienenbus! Schienenbus! Schienenbus!
Nächstes Jahr!
Ich verstehe nicht wozu sind die schönen Fahrzeuge von Steelbridge ?
Hoffentlich bald für den 3D-Druck!
@@steelbridgemodels oh cool 👍
Black is terrible for hiding dirt! Most dirt is a mid-toned colour so shows up well against either black or white. Pretty sure black paint was used simply because it's cheap.
It hides soot
Been in the car wash business for much of my adult life. Hate black cars for this very reason.
Because it looks so damn cool..durrrr.
They probably knew that the bright red won't be bright very long anyway.
The black and red colour scheme is certainly iconic, but I think it's very ubiquitous? As in, were other colours widely used, like for example the green locos shown in the video? Or was the black livery the absolute standard once it was introduced, like the locos couldn't be painted in any other livery? So like in the UK during the BR days we had most steam locos painted black, but green was also widely used, while other locos were painted blue or maroon, examples of all of which are seen in preservation today (to be honest, I think the majority of steam locos running in preservation these days in the UK are painted in their BR liveries, so mostly black or green, which while they're good, at the same time I would rather that more locos that were built in the Grouping and Pre-Grouping eras carried those liveries.)
The red and black was the universal livery for steam locomotives of the German state railway(s) once introduced, but was not a mandatory colour scheme. Private companies to an extent used other liveries and different liveries were also applied to certain state railway locomotives both before and after WW2. Streamliners were for example given several more flashy liveries like beige-and-purple, maroon or deep blue in the pre-war era, and post-WW2 a few experimental locomotives in East Germany (18 314 and 18 201) received a green and red livery with white stripes. The red running gear can be seen as universally present though.
@bahnspotterEU Ah, ok. Thank you! 👍
My old Fleischmann train set
Finally somebody addressed important question, not some political nonsense or football.
Chinese steam locos got the same painting style❤❤
The colour red make all the german steam locomotives too similar
Please identity the train hiding behind 24-005 at 00:02:45. Many thanks...
It's the Class 01, but my old model of it.
Black and red are my colours
There’s definitely something about German locomotives that appeals ⚫️🔴👍
Hmm , so far as I am aware is that the red paint used to be the cheapest one, a reason why ships were often painted red on the underside, comming up during the 1860ties as a waste product of other chemical processes with the added benefit as being resistent in general, at least for the price point.
Lead oxide acts sacrificially against when applied to steel. Later red pigments have a similar action, but weaker (cadmium red, iron red).
So wrong.
It's quite clear 'cos red makes fings fasta!
Nice
Very good, yeah...
Because red makes things go faster