Enneagram Type 4, The Story Of Your Life
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- Опубліковано 20 жов 2024
- Transformational Enneagram & Relationship Coaching
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Dr. Tom LaHue is a graduate of Florida Christian College. He holds 3 Master's Degrees including an MDiv from Liberty Univ. His Doctoral degree is from Grace College and Seminary. He is also a certified Marriage Coach. He and his wife Traci have been married since 1991. They are the proud parents of 5 children and 5 grandchildren.
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When you spoke about 4s being dramatic and not wanting to be minimized. I use drama to distract from my real problems as it makes life more interesting. However it comes to my real problems, I absolutely want them to be minimized. I absolutely want people to tell me it’s not as big of a deal as I think it is. I want it to be a nightmare that I can wake up from rather than living in grief of myself every day.
that sounds like 7.
@@dopecoleyoley2233 no it’s self preservation 4
I agree with alot of this. I'm 4w5 and I was psychoanalyzing myself because i observed a random trigger in my life. *feeling ignored* If I'm talking to a person and they're multitasking/not looking at me when I'm speaking, I shut down and stop talking. Then I kinda go into hiding/my cave of despair and lamenting. Now as gotten older and matured, this isnt a "public" display anymore, where i make everyone run to check on me, but i do create some observable distance. I asked myself, why is it that i recoil so hard to perceiving rejection and the answer is: it DOES take me back to childhood and that feeling of being super excited to tell your parents something and they go, "oh yeah, thats nice sweetie or say, not now, im busy". I dont know why or when, but something about that made me internalize the idea that, "im being ignored because im not important. I need to make myself seem more interesting/important ". I either overachieved to be top of my class, or started listening to obscure music, or wearing weird clothes, etc. Because people at least noticed me...maybe for the wrong reasons but i was seen. I learned somewhere along the way that being simple, mundane, usual, boring would not make people see me. Just BEING was not enough, i had to be PROFOUND. Im aware that my personality comes off as contrary. Like, holding a flashing sign saying "please love me" but saying "ew, dont touch me " when someone comes in for a hug 🤣
I never felt so understood by someone. 😂 Bless you !
Man, I wish there was a support group for 4s😂 I feel the same way. I’m so sensitive to rejection. My nervous system goes off once I get triggered then I have so many thoughts and feelings and psychoanalyze myself to smithereens. It’s exhausting. I’ve gotten much better about not distancing myself as extreme reactions, but I still need some space in the moment to process and reel myself back in. I’m also 4w5,
@mememeome haha me too! Sometimes I feel like I have the isolation thing DOUBLE since 5s tend to be naturally to themselves. I feel like being 4w5 is a recipe to be perpetually alone 😅
as a child i loved reading. my first book was an encyclopedia for kids, i just loved information for the sake of information but had no one to talk about. i was a very introverted kid, rarely played with other kids because that simply didnt interest me. i wanted to talk about the things i've learned&i was interested about and wanted other kids to do the same.
my family never liked me because of this. they didnt like that i was quiet, that i was reading books etc. even if i was exceptionally good at something it wasnt appreciated because it wasnt what a "normal kid" would do.
they shamed me everyday for it, told me i would regret it because i wouldnt have any childhood memories. i was also severely neglected as a child both emotionally and physically. i remember feeling like i was an outcast misunderstood my whole childhood. i'm still not sure 100% about my enneagram but i relate to sp4 a lot.
Awesome
I wish we could have met and played together...
Hey, I just wanted to say that you are definitely not way off with any of this stuff. As a 4, your videos are incredibly helpful to me, and I feel like this one in particular touched on things that I have really needed to hear at this point in my life. Thank you very much, for everything.
When you feel good all feels good
I am a 4w3. I think you are pretty spot on with most of this. I think around minute 17 you talked about the way we show our expressions and what the intention is. I think for myself, I lived in my feelings for years and often wore my emotions, but also hid them to survive. Sometimes I still do. Some of the way we represent ourselves is looking for understanding. Some of it is a way of showing people who we really are without masks because for us, that is the greatest level in intimacy. If you still love me after I tell you everything or show you everything, it is the fairytale come true. It’s testing people to see if they can deal with me, because I’m used to rejection. Sometimes it’s attention seeking. Sometimes I get off on my ability to show feelings because I can sit in my feelings so well and talk about them so well when it makes others squirm, especially men, so it feels like a superpower that is unique. Some of it is hoping to inspire people to be more open with their feelings to build a connection. Like, if I can do it, so can you. It can often be a defense mechanism as well when dealing with others, especially negative emotions or melancholy. I want you around me… but I’m going to pretend I don’t want you near me. Chase me, because that makes me feel special the way I view you as being “special” or elevated on the pedestal.
I think the next level of it is what our identity is based on. I read a book that many 4s have boarder line tendencies. It feels like to really know me and be my authentic self I have to show my feelings, because my identity is wrapped up in my feelings. Or what I feel is my identity in that moment, since it can be very swayed by feelings or how we perceive others view us, especially when we are young. I think a lot of us spend a lot of time obsessing over our feelings, the meaning of life, and our identity, because we are constantly questioning who we are or our worth, how we can “fix it” to be the perfect person that belongs and everyone will love and adore because I am never good enough. That one person everyone will envy like I hold others on a pedestal. I want to be just like everyone else that does not carry this weight around, but ironically, struggle to get there sometimes because I tend to compare myself to other people and find things that they have and i don’t. It’s almost like our worth is deeply connected to what we perceive we don’t have, while being blind to all the things we do have by being stuck in the fantasy we build in our heads of the ideal.
I think being a four is very confusing even for a four itself. As I have matured, I have learned to love myself and stop comparing as much, to not overshare, be aware of how I come across to others, and open my heart to others, but… those wounds still run deep. I grew up in a small Texas town as a gay male, so I was always reminded of how I didn’t belong verbally and many times physically. Sometimes I think of that movie with Jennifer Lopez called the cell because the four mind is complex and full of illusions. On the inside, it can be incredibly dark, it can be playful, it can be artistic. It can also be obsessive at times. But at the root of it all, we just want to be loved and belong, even though the pains of our childhoods deeply instilled in us we weren’t and didn’t.
Man, as a 4, some of this hurt to hear. But so desperately needed! Just this morning I addressed something with my wife (a 1) about the talk we had the night before pertaining to our lack of communication. I wanted her to understand why I responded (or didn't) the way I did, body language and all, and she took it like she did something wrong. When all I want is to be understood. It made our situation worse. ore often than not, I don't understand myself. So how can I expect others to understand me. I'd say I lean more on the unhealthy side.
You can if you find like minded people who not only understand their down falls but are willing to learn how to better be there for you. These concepts are easy it’s just selfishness that ruins it
There’s nothing wrong with bringing up your feelings, wants or needs. You’re responsible for the way you bring it up (such as being careful to not attack or criticize), and how she takes that and meets you is her responsibility. From what I know, 1s are terrified of being wrong which is the same thing to them as being bad. My point being, we all have our issues to work through
Yes, my mother is ESFP 7w6 and my father was INTP 5w4. My father intimidated me and my mother didn't really understand my gifts and would've rather had an extroverted and uncomplicated child.
Then, my father died at 12 and I felt abandoned. For all his faults my father put alot of energy into nurturing my musical and creative gifts. And then there was nothing, just survival.
I also failed my school exams because I was affected by the loss of my father and so always felt relegated to a low status. It was a double blow within one year - Dad gone and in a bad school.
It's peculiar to consider whether I became a type 4 or whether those experiences brought out the 4ness in me.
Life is a paradox, I think.
You are right, our intensity is a defence mechanism to make sure we don't feel shame. We have lived with alot of shame and do not want to experience anymore. We don't want to be judged for being our authentic selves yet we are in this world that doesn't value kindness, empathy, creativity.
It values productivity, wealth accumulation, high status, materialism. Everything we don't stand for.
Also - type 4s are usually sensitive Introverts. So we need alot of downtime to restore ourselves. Therefore, keeping up with friends is difficult because we lack the stamina and resilience. It isn't a choice, it is self -preservation.
You are tottright Dr LaHue. We are deeply complex and stuck in a paradox.
My view is that only through the act of creation can we save ourselves.
I am indebted to you for what you shared. The concisenes of your words in describing your experience is akin to a work of art. It is something that I have wanted to express all my life but didn't even know I had the need, much less the ability to express with language.
@@georgeengelbrecht1310 thank you! Much appreciated.
My enneaggram 4 poem:
I have to hide
On this stage because
Otherwise I become
An invisible ghost
I mis-give and mis-take
It all for granted
I am just so misery-oriented
Even though I know
It's a foolish game
I always end up acting the same
I cannot go on hiding this shame
I don't even like these face and name
Please don't fix me though I am broken
I feel like rhyming till I get OK
I need to look all this pain in the - "I"
Untill she rhymes as the days go - bye!
I remember as a little girl thinking that one day I would meet the man of my dreams and I would bring him to my house. Each room of my house was a glorious secret and something special about me. One room would be my writing room and I was a famous author another an art room.... Bit obnoxious thinking about it now but really fits what you're saying about 4s
I believe that 4s are more turned off by shallow people than wanting random people to know us deeply. We just don’t work hard to please everyone, but we will open up to those that are willing to be vulnerable too. We save the deeper stuff for close relationships.
I actually used to feel that i must have been adopted and had fantasies about coming from a family who lived in the countryside with animals. I also went through a phase of thinking my parents were actually aliens... ages 6 to 9 years... my family was incredibly dysfunctional, narcissistic, drugs, chaos and my siblings and i were neglected. I have done a hell of a lot of inner work and spirituality has been an amazing anchor but I still feel i have more to dig through and a journey to find who I really am!
And yes, i do want to find someone who can truly understand me and handle my depth of personhood. An also help me to find more of who i am.
The not belonging in your family feelings are humiliating. When someone asks you about your family- how do you answer that? That’s the fear. There’s something wrong with me and I don’t want to talk about that.
Tom, 4 here. Your analysis is spot on and, as a “unique” 4, it is funny how hurt I feel being so accurately “pegged”! For me, It’s almost painful for me not to externalize what I’m feeling inside. It’s about being truthful, it’s about being authentic and it’s about being able to be a channel for the multicolored, multifaceted, multidimensional nature of God’s expression. There is a reason why many brilliant artists and poets are type 4s. They express life and, in doing so, express God. For me, it really really helps me to feed in the thought that I am good just the way I am. Definitely not perfect. But that there’s nothing wrong with me. That im allowed to be happy. That’s freeing rather than thinking the traditional Christian way of “I am a fallen sinner”- that just feels like self righteous self loathing.
This is exactly how I feel, “it’s almost painful for me not to externalize what I’m feeling inside.”
I really love the context in how you shared about 4's in this - that you don't actually know "how it is" to be a 4, but rather the interpretation from your own perspective as you were reading through the book. It was super interesting and added an extra layer of insight that I really appreciated. Thank you!!
Thanks
Thanks so much for this! I mistyped as a social 2w1 but realized after meeting other 2s & observing myself in stressful social situations that I’m actually self preservation 4. My mother was self preservation 2 & my equally narcissistic aunt is a sx 4 so I was resistant to the emotional histrionics of the typical 4. What tipped me off is that in stressful social situations I move away from people, whereas 2 move towards people (2 moving away is usually an impulsive manipulation tactic to get someone to move towards them). I also found myself feeling more nourished emotionally by connecting with other 4s even if I was eye rolling inside about their antics. I just understood them really deeply & understood myself better because of it. Also being self-pres 4 means I’m a social masochist so torturing myself with 2 medicine felt “normal “. Now that I’m heeding the suggestions for 4 integration, I’m feeling so much more at ease with myself. In casting off the 2 mistype I’ve basically cast off my mother 😂 thanks a lot for this video, it’s really helpful as I am untangling this inner jungle!!
Ps. The ways I’m different is I’m ADHD & on the autism spectrum. My self preservation 2 mother & self preservation 7 father were embarrassed about having a “gifted” kid that was outside of the bell curve. I never wanted to stand out & be different, I just was. Honestly I didn’t think I was different, everyone else treated me with hostility or made fun of me. My father was in the military so we moved a lot. As a self preservation 4, I dress like everyone else, look like everyone else but socially I have mannerisms that put people off. I get along well with other Neurodivergent people because they aren’t put off 😊 I use humor a lot to manage the social awkwardness which helps!
That's awesome that you're figuring out your Enneagram type! Keep delving into the inner jungle and discovering more about yourself.
02:58 😢 Enneagram Type 4s often feel different from their parents from a young age, leading to feelings of being unseen, misunderstood, and emotionally abandoned.
04:33 🤔 Childhood wounds for Enneagram Type 4s often involve feeling loved and valued until something changes, leaving them questioning their worth and fearing rejection.
09:07 😔 Enneagram Type 4s may internalize a belief that something is profoundly wrong with them, leading to endless self-comparisons and feelings of inadequacy.
10:31 🤨 Enneagram Type 4s may spend much energy envying others and comparing themselves, feeling frustrated by perceived lack in themselves.
14:54 🔄 Enneagram Type 4s often seek a deeper sense of self, striving to reflect their internal experience externally, which may lead to feelings of being misunderstood by others.
17:55 😰 Enneagram Type 4s desire deep connections but fear rejection if they open up fully, leading to a cycle of pushing people away to avoid potential pain.
21:22 😡 Enneagram Type 4s may become disappointed or angry when others fail to fully understand or acknowledge their suffering and struggles.
22:52 🧠 Understanding Enneagram Type 4: Fours often feel they've been dealt a bad hand in life but still persevere, seeking validation for their suffering.
26:21 🔄 Fours struggle with a constant tension between fearing abandonment and longing for genuine connection, leading to a push-pull dynamic in relationships.
32:12 🎭 Embracing intense emotions often feels authentic to Fours, who may struggle with feeling happy or functional, fearing it's not okay to be content.
33:21 🤝 Despite feeling broken, Fours possess a unique ability to see beauty in others' brokenness, yet struggle to see it in themselves, highlighting the need for self-acceptance and understanding.
37:19 🔄 Maturity for Fours involves recognizing and pushing back against impulses that may not align with their goals or values, fostering healthier relationships and self-perception.
Thanks
I’m a 4 w 5 and I find this very interesting and fairly accurate. I don’t think being a 4 has to be a bad thing lol. It’s just learning to understand that we have deep emotions and feelings. And that because we can connect to our feelings we have an extraordinary ability to help others with theirs. It’s learning to direct it in a positive way. Not to let all the fears of abandonment keep us from connecting. What I’m wondering is if because of those fears we might be manifesting these experiences into our lives which validate our fears. For example in my family I absolutely felt like I didn’t fit in. And then there was the obvious physical traits that I had red hair light skin and the rest of my family all had dark brown hair and dark skin. This instilled in me from a young age that not only did I look different but I also felt differently than they did. Then I had real issues of abandonment from my parents which just reinforced the abandonment and feeling of being unloved. So curious if other 4s out there have noticed similar experiences that manifest in your lives.
But now at 45 I have learned better coping skills with my emotions and feelings to where I can use them to help others process their emotions and feelings. I’m often told that I feel “safe” because I provide a nurturing environment for people to share the really hard dark feelings. And then add in a healthy dose of empathy and it’s a nice balance.
It’s just learning to not take yourself so seriously. Embrace your flaws and sin. Understand that you will never “feel” like others and embrace that. I don’t feel like I fit in so I don’t try to fit in anymore. I really have embraced the individualistic side of being a 4 and I feel more “myself” than ever. And as I have done that I feel more connected to God. It’s definitely a constant juggling act. But it is better than constantly feeling misunderstood and rejected. Just accept that those are just feelings and not necessarily your reality. I find too that there needs to be a balance of that fantasy self with a healthy dose of reality that help get us 4s to a healthy place. The romanticizing relationships can set us up for failure because we have such high expectations of our relationships we constantly feel let down and disappointed. Which then can ignite the tailspin of nobody loves us guess I’ll go eat worms…recluse….like sucks…I don’t belong here. 😂
Definitely try to surf the emotional wave vs letting it drown you. ☺️❤️🙏🏻✌🏻
And, we attract toxic narcissists who take all our vulnerabilities and weaponize them. That happened to me and ever since that near total destruction of my life, I am terrified of ever letting anyone get near me. Really like this video. I have felt alone and misunderstood, that something is "wrong with me" my entire life. It's brutal. It's as though I am invisible.
Yeah.. 3 times! Never again
I had the same experience- I’m trying hard love myself
This is incredibly profound and helpful. So powerful to start to really see why I'm the way I am and open up doors to growth that have not been seen before. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for the free content, I watched every single videos of you about type 4 and has taken out many things for myself❤
Great stuff. There's a quote that goes 'it's horrible tasting medicine but it's exactly what the patient needed' and this video is that for 4s such as myself 🙏
NICE
Yeah it’s true. There’s a self fulfilling prophecy in there for sure. I even experience this with friendships that get deep enough to really see how I think and work, and then they see my flaws. It’s so terrifying that my brain starts to look for any sign of rejection in their words or behavior then distance myself. And distancing myself could look like talking to them less, sharing less vulnerable things, or even getting easily defensive and being extra sassy toward them. It’s sad when I do this because it’s really hard for me to control myself since it’s so fear based and automatic. It’s hard to want intimacy and connection so much, but then build a world with emotionally disconnected people or people that start to get close and you push them away. But it’s true that no one is without flaws, and it’s a journey for me at least to work on this little by little. I know I’ve already made so much progress
It's tough, but you're making progress. Keep at it, and remember, we're all a work in progress!
You do understand us quite well. Thank you for mirroring our inclinations. ❤
Wasn’t easy to hear all this about us! Felt so much hurt but then thought someone should tell us how hard is understanding us…thanks.
Yes, the chaos and drama that shapes a 4 is integral to our personas and outlooks on life.
😂 Tom Tom, you looked a little afraid at the beginning because it is a tough one the f o u r. But you were masterful, extremely good, and you explain something that was hard to explain. You did a fantastic great job thank you so much you made us love the unlovable LOL God bless us all every single number and the four that can't push us away.
Thanks again!
This is really useful, challenging and spot on. Thank you
Great to hear!
As a 4, I can honestly say I always felt different. The youngest of 3 girls. My sisters were and are very different. And I always knew that I was the odd one out.
As a child and as an adult, I feel that way. I don’t have that “ingredient” to fit in or to be how everyone else is.
It’s very strange to still battle this as an adult. I thought it was just something I would deal with as a child or teenager.
Wow, thanks for sharing that.
People always say that fours don’t feel as though they fit in with their family, but I am four and that’s not the case for me, at least not what I remember. I think the different instincts flavor the four quite a bit. I am a self preservation four, so on the outside I don’t really look like a four. I distinctly remember feeling like I didn’t fit in with the world, but I know I worked very hard to fit in with my family because that’s what was. considered “good“. I spent a lot of time daydreaming by myself, but I always knew that I was very loved, maybe not understood, but I kept that to myself.
Same
I am a self pres 4 also. I actually fit in more with different groups and people than my family.
You do understand us, fours, really well.👍❤Life has already taught me most of those lessons that you spoke here, but some ideas were new too. For younger fours, this video can be really helpful. Thank you!
This is hard…I am a self preservation 4. Outwardly I don’t look like a 4. I do resonate with the intensity of my feelings inwardly. There are times when I really have a hard time.
I think feeling that I didn't fit in (yes, adopted :) is more accurate than any loss of attention. This explanation resonates more for me than the traumatic episode scenario
Dr. TOM Thank you for your time. I believe you understand 4's so well. The push and pull 4's of experiencing love. Excellent
Thank you kindly
The "dismorphia" of 4s not being able to be too happy has nothing to do with self image and everything to do with an understanding that all things pass and it becomes an anxiety of how long can this last, and how much bigger will the opposite wave feel after this high.
I always "pointed the cannons at myself" until I hit about 30, and then the cannons started pointing outward. cuz the cannons had finished destroying me and then they needed more fodder
Misunderstood. I don’t think you understand the unconscious motivation of a four… As with any type, there are going to be challenges, but I’m noticing that you’re continuing to identify things that will get in the way. Four have many strengths as well, and it is not as if we are behaving in certain ways because we think it works. Our motives are not to get attention. It is to avoid pain as with any other type of coping with every other type of style.
It was always my sister that mattered more than. I never fit in school because everyone had 'normal' families while mine was dysfunctional. I used to feel rejected, wondering what's wrong with me, but not anymore, I dwell in feeling different now, I don't have that urge to fit in anymore.
Ha-ha-ha! No wonder I have so few friends. But the friends I do have, are real, close, deep, and truly love me with my warts and all.
"SCORPIO 1 [0 degrees Scorpio is the 1st degree]
A tunnel through a mountain.
When darkness comes, you need more darkness if you're ever going to find the light. As the struggle of Earth existence descends upon you, you must find a way to harness the power of that struggle to turn death into rebirth. But it is so pressurized and absolutely relentless a path to walk. Everything you meet reflects the same destiny-dilemma. For you are being pulled through the collective nightmare by an immense evolutionary force, and that means feeling everything, experiencing all of it, and letting everything go. Those pulled in to such a radical track develop core perseverance magnificently and learn to be light while superheavy, and to stay loose while bearing down in tight passages. Eventually, glorious things happen and you can emerge into a whole other reality, knowing how purposeful every step has been, that all of it was necessary and redemptively built a character strength of a mighty fiber, as you knew it would." - From Elias Lonsdale's book Inside Degrees
Im a 4w5 w Saturn at this degree and yeah.. as much as I want to be saved, I guess I'm ok with living 100billionX if that's what it takes for ME to get it right.
I'm a Scorpio 4 too
You must have had a harrowing time since the great conjunction of Jupiter/Saturn/Pluto in 2020!
Now you have Pluto Square your Sun to deal with for the final stretch of your transformation 🙏🏾
As a lifelong for, I determined I was defective and didn’t fit because my father remarried early and had two more kids, so I always called myself “the leftovers.” I felt like I was a burden from the start. While I have ton a ton of work on myself, using the Enneagram, I still consider that the reason why I don’t fit in with others on some kind of subconscious level.
It is interesting how you, as a 7 and thinking type, are processing type 4. You are discussing the issues very often as if they were to do with thoughts, whereas the issues of 4, such as their feeling of being inherently flawed, are not sourced in thoughts, but are rooted in emotion, and their thoughts are secondary reactions and reflections of the emotions. As a 4 with a 5 wing, I can both feel this and analyze it to death.
Hey there, fellow 4 with a 5 wing! It's cool to see how we all approach things differently. Let's keep diving into these fascinating Enneagram dynamics together!
I want an uncomplicated life.
Yep, something was wrong with me. Loss of feeling connected. I was bullied at school. Shut down. I admire other people for their abilities and i keep searching for my inner peace. I never wanted to stand out. Im a great assistant. I have great love and empathy.
Challenging my wrong thinking because it causes suffering to myself and how it has affected my relationships.
Bless you
My sister is an 8, my mum is a 2 and my dad was a 5. I never felt like a fit in there because my family was chaotic and I was sort of a forgotten detail in the picture of it all. I’m also autistic so at school I never fitted in either. I never was the centre of attention so I just embraced it, nothing else I could do other than use my difference. I’m now 18 and I still feel like that but this time I’m trying to become a theatre practitioner and I’m going to drama school so I can express myself in a healthier way these days.
Been a little while since I have written but I still listen! As a four, just yes. When I was little I was convinced I was adopted and told my parents and everyone else that I had to have been. I definitely wasn’t my 😂now that I am an adult. But yea. Always feeling abandoned but not necessarily purposefully. My parents were actually really amazing at acknowledging my differences, thankfully. But I still felt odd and different.
loved the video! However, does anybody know when the enneagram 5 episode of this series is coming out? we are always dead last, aren't we?
I'm convinced you're Vsauce's alter ego that studies humans instead of things.
Great Dr. thank you, but I have one question can type 4 be in a leadership position, specifically in the political leadership?
Hey there! Type 4 individuals can definitely rock a leadership role, even in politics. Their creativity and passion could really shake things up in the political arena.
This one is Brilliant. Thank you Tom.
Did I make a decision about what was wrong with me? Not specifically but here’s the big moments I remember from childhood.
I was sensitive and a crier. There was a lot of dysfunction in my immediate and extended family. My mom was 18 and pregnant when she met the man who became my dad (I was the baby in utero). So even though I didn’t know it until I was 10 years old that I wasn’t blood related to most of the people raising me, they felt it and I must have absorbed some into my consciousness.
I was a crier, negative energies made me sad and I had a MEAN, violent, hateful but sometimes fun mother.
I would cry and rather than understand why I was upset, they would threaten and spank me into not expressing my feelings to them.
Once I was 4 or 5 in the car with my slightly younger cousin. They all started singing a happy song and I cried. My aunt happily tried to get me to sing along and I just got sadder. She decided to pull over the car and spank me for crying while they were just trying to have a good trip. In retrospect they had probably just picked me up from my moms house and I was probably just sad from something that had gone on with her. I was too young to explain the reason for my sadness. The misunderstanding lead to punishment and conformity. To this day my aunt still tells the story with an added “it worked! You were happy and sang after that.” 😣
My life’s mission is to understand myself and others deeply. Lol life is too painful when people don’t understand where the other is coming from.
I’m a professional dream interpreter and help people heal their own childhood conditioning. How “different” is that! I’m such a 4.
My lament is that my youngest daughter is an 8 and wants nothing to do with my ability to understand her deeper feelings. In fact she can be manipulative because she knows I care.
My older daughter is a 9 and is not thrilled with the combativeness of her younger sister.
Please please help me
I’ve had the same nightmares for decades
So…what who was I..or what did I do, to cause the abandonment? Yes, we/I begin to test people before we open up…as I may be abandoned again. It’s best to just not trust. Actually, I avoid drama..almost at all costs!
Yes. I wás adopted. So… was I a 4 by nature or due to this trauma?
Tests tell me I am a four and this has been some exciting things I have learned about myself already! But I wanted to comment on some things.
The "darkness" (lonelyness, sadness, lack of connection) feels like "me". I identify with it. So I can and have successfully employed strategies to become friends with people and I have many friends and relatively close people, but the nagging feeling is that they don't know me in the "real" and deep way untill I show them the darkness in all its forms.. this does not go away.
I can make the other person happy... But then I am not happy. And when I show "the real me", this can push people away.
I guess I have to stop identifying with "the dark" in me, but how? No idea. And the truth is, I like the dark too, it is precious to me. So it's a good question what maturity means for a 4. I think finding someone somewhere who can appreciate the dark and channeling it there. Art, theatre, or another dark friend, could be the answer.
Being a 4w5 has been pretty horrible for me…looking to appreciate how I’m made…
I hear you, it can be tough navigating life as a 4w5. Hang in there!
I wonder how tle Enneagramm works on elderly people
Thanks for your comment! It's an interesting topic, and I appreciate you bringing it up. The Enneagram really does have a unique perspective on how we evolve with age!
Thanks!
WOW, thanks so much
Brutal invalidation from day one by a neurotically rigid mother 1 and her psycophant husband 9, inexistent as a father. That's it. So the result is no secret: sadness, pessimism, feeling of total vulnerability and lack. Here a social 4. Thank you for your great job.
Wow, that sounds heavy! Thanks for opening up about it. It’s cool to have a space where we can talk about this stuff!
@@twlahue Thank you for your job, Tom. I really appreciate you.
Hey - 4 here. I tend disagree on the interpretation on you can have what you want just based on your outward appearance. I get the sentiment but I think it could be misleading. You may need to approach your goal differently to get the outcome you desire but I don't think it truly as black and white as he is conveying it.
Are we born with our Enneagram types? Or is it our upbringing that makes it so?
I believe that we are born with a type...Can't prove that though.
@@twlahueMe too. I always say we are born with the seed of our type. This is obviously the billion dollar question, and yet rarely approached. Stupidity? Dishonesty? It's exasperating.
This is a great video.
I must say, I am giggling at how the beginning of the video is very much “you find problems in yourself and you felt outta place” then you proceed to tell us how our natural disposition and emotional self is wrong and to do what other people are doing.
You see how we can compare ourselves to others and try to understand why we don’t do what y’all do? You’re literally telling us to not be ourselves while simultaneously saying we won’t find our likeminded people if we change.
Is 4 a trauma response?
Maybe, 4, 6, & 8 are the "Reactionary Types."
Yeah, but we aren't all the same. The 4 has to learn that we are not more special or more flawed than others, yes. But after the 4 becomes more objective and moves in the direction of integration and takes on 1 traits, we actually realize that we are indeed different. The feelings, which were at first not grounded in intellect, become justified by real objective observation.
And just for the record, you seem biased against 4, and I wonder about your relationship with your type 4 child.
Maybe I need to work on my relationship with my inner Type 4 child! It's a journey.
very good
Thanks
@@twlahue I never heard Lewis's Shadowlands connected to the shadow side of Enneagram 4, but now that is something I doubt I'll forget. It's like your Hundred Acre Wood connection to E9 that I first heard you talk about in 2021; these metaphysical places are great descriptors
Dave Attell?
i am adopted lol its been an interesting ride and if you got a spare day i can tell you about it, but i am still here tho and get called weird a lot suck at relationships and so life has been hard not getting my needs met.
58 year old body and a 16 year old mind i am sure it looks weird from the outside lol.
I am super feeling and so it scares people right because they don't want to look inside themselves so guess i am a mirror they don't want to look into? be great to talk to you for a few hrs and i sure don't say that to any men so take it as a complement
i agree with lots of the stuff you say about humans being broken i see it all day every day and it makes me cry with some deep sadness but i am broken also so i get to see my 2 parts of i can join in to the sins of this world oh dear!!
i cry a lot lately sad about being broken and living in this broken world.