Filling the oxygen concentrators with new molecular sieves - Project H #17
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- We always used old oxygen concentrators to make oxygen for our glassworking burners. They troubled us all the time - for the H tube, we need more oxygen, a great occasion to spend resources on building a reliable machine. In this video, I am refilling the molecular sieve beds with fresh new sieves!
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Want to build your own? I explained tje machine in this video, comment and exchange knowledge there: ua-cam.com/video/7zN6aUKlhZI/v-deo.html
Why don't you use silica gel to filter out moisture at the starting stage
Yes, but I know it's well outside my skill range, lol.
What is the amount of oxygen filtering does this machine do Dalibor ??? Nice video Sir. .
At 2:44 you can see a Marble Machine X Poster.
Yes, this is my source of inspiration and positivity!
Amusing to see spare tube body used as a funnel! This is an awesome machine.
That was a natural choice :-)
How you made it? Can you explain the tube ?
ua-cam.com/video/bK35rSqmhug/v-deo.html
I like the funnel you use to fill up the cylinders )
:-)
Indeed
I'm not sure what sort of humidity/dew point requirements the zeolite has, given the system had nothing specific to dry it beforehand, I assume they just don't want condensation in the sieve columns, but are fine with some humidity otherwise. You can do a few minor things to ensure the compressed air is above its own dew point. You're cooling the air out of the compressor which is good, but if you can drop the dew point by lowering pressure after water condenses out (the expansion will cool the air a bit) and then letting it warm back up. With continuous production of O2, assuming you have a coalescing filter after the radiator/aftercooler, a length of tubing wound onto the aftercooler to provide a small flow restriction and warm the air would ensure the air going to the sieves is above the dew point, hopefully extending sieve service life and preventing problems.
Huge relief to see the performance of the new sieve! Congrats man. Nailed it.
I am relieved as well, that would be crazy to trash $1k..
Yeah congratulations! Thanks for the update.
Wher did you get dieve
Sieve?
Oxygen sieve is the name of the device, the cans filled with the powder are sieves.
An engineer question: What care must be taken for the zeolite in oxygen concentrators?.
Tks enginer 🎩
Wonder if it is possible to regenerate the old sieve material by leaving it under vacuum for a few days in a larger cylinder, and allow the adsorbed moisture to come out. Probably not worth it though, as the wear on the vacuum pumps will be high, along with the power.
You are going to have to pack the remaining zeolite back under vacuum though, though it does look like that container it came in has a good lid seal, and you can add a Schroeder valve to it to connect up a vacuum pump to exhaust it. I guess that that material was packed and evacuated in the bags already in the shipping drum, no other way to get a vacuum pack like that to fit once it is rock hard from atmospheric pressure on it.
SeanBZA i tried vacuum (below 1mBar, 15 hours, 250C), they were even worse after this process.. not sure if the sieves need to be under vacuum - they are under air in the concentrator normally, for decades..
@@daliborfarny Will keep them in like new condition till you use the granules, instead of them getting atmosphere in and degrading. Not going to need much, just well under ambient and with a seal that will keep them that way.
Glad that all worked out Dalbor, nice when plan comes together.
I wonder if you can regenerate those sieves? When I dry solvents microwaving the larger 3Å ones does the trick quickly, they get hot if you dump them in water afterwards and toluene that sits over them for a while doesn't react with potassium. The microwave trick can overheat them if you aren't careful though, so an oven bake is slower but safer, you need to get zeolite to at least 250 C to release bound water, but the zeolites for pressure swing absorption may need different treatment or be permanently poisoned by getting damp? I don't know if they are chemically different from common drying sieves?
Hey, you here! I miss your videos!
I tried 250C both in air and vacuum (
@@daliborfarny how about nitrogen flush? From the bottle it's really dry and should be cheap...
@@AKAtheA Do you mean flushing the sieves with nitrogen to regenerate them? I tried vacuum and it didn't work - so with N2 it might be even less probable.. But we will find a way :-)
@@daliborfarny How long under that heat and vacuum?
It quite amazing that you know so much about everything in your laboratory. It's been so great that you've taken us on this journey. I can't wait to see the finished product.
What type of sieves/zeolites do you use for this?
It is lithium molecular sieve from China
In regards to the humidity, i'm going to assume that's the basement putting sticks in your wheels as the saying went. Maybe put a dehumidifier box before the intake into the machine? Or have it sit inside a sealed box that's fed from one...i'll admit, this is not my original idea, i saw that some high sensitivity lab equipment machines have enclosures that are force fed dry air. Obviously, those utilize stupid expensive machines to dry the air, but something on the cheap should be ok... i mean, any + is better than none, right?
Sure, that would help - I need to find out how exactly it is done in the original machine :-) there are no dehumidifiers..
I installed a compressor dehumidifier for my parents’ basement, it works a charm (and provides me with waay more milli-Q water than I need). You could probably hack one of these for your purpose... Since it works from a regular fridge compressor, the noise level is very low.
@@Sodabowski We have two dehumidifiers of this type, they work well - we can end up using these, but I first want to know how the original oxygen concentrator did the same operation without using dehumidifier..
I didn't think that anhydrous zeolite was quite that expensive. Also I believe that commercial oxygen generators use silica gel to dry the air.
that would deplete rather quickly, considering how much air has to go through...
The oxygen generator uses molecular sieves to separate nitrogen and oxygen, not just dry air.
Hello, great project what size of grain did you used? What is the name of your supplier
The supplier name is JALON from China
The grain size is 1.6-2.5 mm diameter
А не хотите спросить тип цеолита который он использовал? От этого многое зависит!
I love the lighting at your place! Even with that many shelves, it still looks like a chill place to work.
0/10 Roomba needs googly eyes.
thanks! Googly eyes for Roomba - writing that to the TODO list :-D
I remember helping my dad rebuild these things 20 years ago, he ran a small respiratory therapy service. Zeolite lasted a good while, running the O2 analyzer afterwards for 4 hour tests. The concentrator pump pistons use to go out the fastest, lubricants could not be petroleum based.
You can regenerate the sieve material over a few weeks by putting it in a sealed can with dessication packs made of baked out epsom salt. The stuff will chemically bind the water in it. Also feeding your machine with dry air conditioned air will make it work better. Other then that very nice project! 🤓
They are warm because they took up the humidity in the air as far as I know
neur303 might be - or it is just a pressure change.. we are rising the pressure from vacuum to atmospheric very fast..
The heat of adsorption can be quite surprising with these.
I am pretty sure they come pre-dried hence the double packaging and vacuum. I think for certain applications they have to be dry.
As soon as you open them they will adsorb moisture from the air and like silica gel get hot depending on the speed.
The vacuum certainly helps to do this fast.
Anyways I am happy to see it works for you now!
Look up "latent heat of condensation"
any idea why concentration was low in the earlier sieves you used, was the grade different ?
where they sodium or lithium based ?
i dont know if it will work but i wounder if you can put them in a dehydrator to get them dry agean
I always wanted to build my own oxygen/nitrogen generator... Yet my needs are so low that I am ok to go with cylinders time to time...
Why did you expose all of the zeolite to air rather than just opening a hole with a sealed section so you can remove them in measured amounts? They turn moisture into heat. I would expect that you would need to heat them under vacuum to remove the moisture.
"Regeneration of the zeolite is both simple and complex. Approximately 70-80% of the moisture can generally be removed by “pulling a vacuum”, i.e.; lowering the humidity level. This fraction is known as bulk water. The amount of water removed from the zeolite is dependent on how low the humidity is lowered but, without a method to exhaust this extracted water, the moisture merely leaves the zeolite and re-enters the air stream. This again lowers the saturation point of the zeolite. Therefore, the zeolite adsorbs moisture until it cannot adsorb more. If the humidity level falls the zeolite deadsorbs moisture until it is in “balance” with the lower humidity level. At that point it begins to adsorb moisture and the cycle is repeated.
The remaining water (which cannot be removed by pulling a vacuum) is very difficult to remove and may require prolonged heating at moderate (150C or 212F, the boiling point of water) to very high (600-800C, 1112-1472F) temperatures. This fraction is coordinated to the metal cations present in the zeolite. There would need to be a chemical analysis of the particular zeolite (s) in use to determine the characteristics before it could be determined what level of heat is required to" sufficiently remove lower levels of moisture. It should also be noted that heating zeolites to very high temperatures can cause extensive structural damage."
Or you would just look at the datasheet that tells you how to handle the zeolite as provided by the manufacturer. This is the same thing people do to plastics before they are used in injection molding and printing.
Have a Perfecto 2 Concentrator with exact problem.. The purity would go up then down, from 50's ~ 70's .. Bought it for $200 and wondering if it's better just sell this and buy a new one..
Would drying incoming air, by passing through a desiccant bed, help to extend the life the sieve material?
Can the molecular sieve material be renewed/refreshed in DIY situations?
I wonder if you can usefully cascade the output of the degraded stage into the new one.
Hai bro
I am repairing oxygen concentrator with different manufacturers.
How to select zeolite crystal for filling sieve canister with different manufacturers?
We have large quantities of Philips respironics Everflo & Sumply go portable units
compress the air in a tank before feeding the system this will condense the humidity
Excuse me for this filling in the ambient with 70 % humidity is a problem or not? Thank you
Just asking myself: Once operating this within a closed room- wouldn't it deplet the oxygen within the premises?
In a 100 m^3 room, there would be ~20,000 L of pure oxygen (21% * 100,000 L).
At 30 L/min generation, the depletion rate would be nearly 10%/hr of the initial volume of oxygen. So if the room was air tight, after an hour the air would change from 21% to 19% oxygen, approximately.
An air turnover rate of 300 L/min within a 100 m^3 room would offset the oxygen depletion rate by 95%.
So any reasonable air handling system will easily offset any oxygen depletion.
However, you wouldn’t want to be caught in a closet with this oxygen generator running.
Waiting for reply
Which Zeolite Can be used in Oxygen Concentrator?
When Should Refill it?
I made a video update, please post comments under that video: ua-cam.com/video/7zN6aUKlhZI/v-deo.html
so my question is... what grade of zeolite, the partical size... if that matters?, and are there different types of zeolite?
The molecular sieve
You use is for 5lt. Or 10lt.
oxygen concentrators
His device is more than 10lt.
Usually, devices should used the lithium zeolite if exceeding 5lt
Plz tell me why mostly air blockage pneumatic solenoid valve.
I'm working on a way to clean sieves, or the molecules themselves, and think I'm really close to 90%+ as good as medical grade sieves.. Please email me.
Great video Dalibor, as you are burning the oxygen does it lower the concentration of oxygen in the room? I used to work in low oxygen environments and it catches you slowly as air is 80 odd percent nitrogen. Do ensure you have a window open.
Thank you! Yes, the burners produce carbon dioxide and water vapor. There is an extractor hood that takes the gases out, this makes fresh air to enter the room by the door.. so it should be fine..
Is the air intake and exhaust for the concentrator outside the room so you don’t lower the O2 level in air that people are breathing?
I was looking to comment that now that it's working so well ventilation is required, not just for people but the machine too!
you should sell those cans from 1:50
We do - this can serves as a packaging for our Blub clock ;-)
Dalibor Farný oh, I wish I can buy those can individually though, don’t have that much extra money lying around
Why do you have a mask on when you open the new package but not when you empty the cylinders
What are those containers? Where to buy them?
That's a nice design, I would recommend that you vibrate the Sieves after filling before closing them so the zeolite settles, the spring should be fully compressed because the zeolite will settle even more once it's turned on. If not fully vibrated, you risk the zeolite shifting during the PSA cycle which may damage the zeolite.
Exactly what I said.. And the zeolite should be stored air tight...and even in a small air conditioned closet to minimize the moisture present in the air..
Cool. What is the shelf life of zeolite before it must be changed?
How do you get the concentration above 90%? like to 95% or even more?
Zeolite from the hardware store does work too. Those chines screwed you over man XD
10 cylinders? Must be a Volvo or something haha
nah, in the future it will become more like a 12 cylinder beast xd
@@lukas441stu can I have a schematic diagram and parts list docamitverma at gmail.com
How and where can i buy it in egypt?
Wow, I am bedazzled by your work; you are one of a kind Dalibor!!! You have literally blown me away, you are so smart!! Keep up the good work man!!!!
Hey, thank you! I am average, just focused and working until the problem is solved ;-)
How to buy zeólite? Where?
Nice. I like these updates.
Hello Mr. Farny, how much Zeolite you used for that molecular sieve tanks and what is the volume of cylinder tanks? I am trying to understand the zeolite/volume ratio for my experiment. Another question is, when to replenish the Zeolites?
Zeolit warms up BECAUSE it absorb the humidity from the air (recommended to be way below 30%) and yo DO NT want exactly that. So I recon you`ll be throwing away the rest of the barrel, as you wrongfully probably did with the old one. While you could have heated it in a thin 1-2cm layer at 300 Celsius degree for about 8-15hours. Or shorter under void, thus allowing a thicker layer. Maybe for you 90% maximum is allright, but in medical field... Anyway, you probably bought Lythium zeolite, that has DOUBLE the efficiency of Natrium zeolite. If yours is Nattrium zeolite, then that`s a good return. If packed correctly under a dry athmosphere, it should have produced 93+ concentration for the quantity you load there (@5lpm per 2 tubes).
I have a question, I have a nitrogen Generator maxigas domnick hunter UK it has carbon molecular sieves if I replace them with zeolite molecular sieves would I provide oxygen?
Very useful video.
Can anyone tell where I get these bottle.
I am working to build oxygen concentrator.
Thank you very much for your clip. I will buy the Zeolite to test in Thailand.
What is this for ?
I would've expected you to vibrate the sieve zeolite canister as you fill it to pack it in tighter.
How much percentage of sodium and lithium to fill in The tanks for 1liter and 5 liters
By our standards
Sodium, 1liter 600g, 5liter 2400g
Lithium, 1liter 200g, 5liter 1200g
After how many days you have to change molecular sieve?
What are the rewards of peace that must be made in the manufacture of this device in medical use
Can you pls inform where do I find aluminium container for sieve tower along with spring and filter arrangements?
Alternatively, could you just clean up, dry and reactivate the sieves that came with it?
hello question Lithium zeolite is filled and discharged more than once in an oxygen generator and makes it no longer produced
How has the large canister of zeolite held up over time? Have you used it to repour mores sieve tubes with similar O2 purity results?
Hi bro. You use sodium or lithium zeolite? Thanks
Hi bro, it's lithium zeolite.
I wonder if you could vacuum out the new can of sieve, or backfill with an inert gas to keep them from going bad while sitting on the shelf?
They can also be configured for nitrogen.
what do you mean?
@@lukas441stu They can be configured to concentrate nitrogen rather than oxygen. PSA nitrogen generators are often used in the production of liquid nitrogen.
@@douro20 the sieve material for psa nitrogen is carbon based.
@@nitrousman8882 Usually, activated carbon is used for hydrogen purification
@@eazanhan6366 perhaps, but CMS 200 is also used in PSA nitrogen production.
With the shortages of oxygen during pandemic good that you have your own supply.
What size of molecular seed you use
It's 0.4mm-0.8mm beads
Hey, im curious if it’s possible to upscale just 2 containers instead of hooking them up together? Wouldn’t it be more efficient in upkeep considering the lack of moving parts in total?
I love your vids, forget my name ^^
Hi! I started receiving emails asking me to help to build oxygen concentrators for use in Covid-affected areas with no supply of medical oxygen. I have no idea if the oxygen produced by a system like this will work for this purpose, you are building it on your risk. The concentration of the gas produced is on average 85% oxygen, the rest is mostly nitrogen and other constituents of air.
The molecular sieves I used is "JLOX-101" from www.molecular-sieve.cc, the price was around $500/25kg drum + $500 shipping from China to Europe.
The sieve beds and Thomas compressors used are from Invacare oxygen concentrators (6 used units, each of them around 150-200 EUR).
The pneumatic valves are Festo MN2H-5/3G-D-01 (6 pieces, 70 EUR each).
The timing of the valves is driven by Controllino Mini (130 EUR).
If you have further questions, please reply to this comment, I will do my best to help you. Cheers!
1. Do we need any special room for filling zeolites in containers, like maintaining pressure, temperature or humidity of the room?
2. How did you close that remaining zeolite can to keep it safe for a good amount of time until you need them again?
@@hp5683 the lower humidity the better, but no special conditions are necessary. Just avoid 85%+ humidity. The zeolites are exposed to ambient air anyway during the operation.. I keep the rest of the zeolites in the plastic bag and closed drum in 20C, 70% humidity room. Should be ok..
@@daliborfarny Did you have any problem about purity after filling zeolites as you did here in this video? That cylinder is working above 90% still or you refilled it again? Thank you!
@@hp5683 No, the machine runs with the same zeolits every day several 3-5 hours, the oxygen concentration is now around 85% in average. We keep the machine in a small room with air dryer that keeps the air humidity at around 60%.
Hi, can you tell me where you got those canisters which hold the zeolite? Is it salvaged from the old o2 concentration units?
Your video is very professional and wonderful. Thank you for sharing our product testing.
Ceolite became hot during water absorption. Try to make some drops in it)
Are you passing air into those sieve beds and right out into the O2 sensors ? I didn't hear the characteristic "tssshhhh tssshhhh" as the compressed air is allowed to build up pressure inside the sieve beds, while O2 is absorbed, then N2 + H2O + CO2 are released, then O2 can be collected. I'm just curious how you're doing it to dispose of the N2, etc.
And that seems like an AWFUL lot you paid for 25 Kg of zeolite! Prices, lately, are scaring me.
I ordered the same zeolite from the same supplier and at the time it seemed to be the only public facing vendor. You sorta take what you get when vendors won't talk to you.
3:28 nice hiss
was looking for this comment
Can you help 🙏🏼 me to provide oxygen concentrator because india is in very critical condition
I made a video update, please post comments under that video: ua-cam.com/video/7zN6aUKlhZI/v-deo.html
How much did it cost?
Well Done Dalibor, very pleased that you got it working and that the humidity issue is no longer a problem.
What's the grade of zeolite you're using??
I made a video update, please post comments under that video: ua-cam.com/video/7zN6aUKlhZI/v-deo.html
My device was giving 66% purity and after I take out zeolite out and return it I got 36% purity, I open it in environment conditions safe for zeolite
Sir what is the reason?
Hi Luqman, this can be caused by many reasons.
First, check whether the machine is leaking and whether the valve is working properly. Secondly, it is necessary to check whether enough molecular sieves are loaded, and if enough molecular sieves are loaded, check whether the performance of molecular sieves does not meet the standard.
What is the temperature and pressure used in your project?
Can anybody please tell the type of zeolite used in oxygen seperating sieve,its urgent for a project
Type 13X and others that are proprietary.
@@glasslinger thank u so much
Hi, I'm Parthiban from India. Pretty impressed with your videos especially with your oxygen concentrator. Here due to the pandemic the oxygen supply is too low and requires some out of box solutions other than the liquid oxygen cylinders. It would be a great help if you can share your oxygen concentrator system schematics and other details so that we can try reproducing it locally. It might save lot of lives.
I made a video update, please post comments under that video: ua-cam.com/video/7zN6aUKlhZI/v-deo.html
That funnel seems...... expensive! ;)
Please sir,
What about the life of zeolite?
If i want to make abiger psa generator for filling cyliders it is the same idea?
Thanke you
The zeolites in this video is usually use for homehold oxygen gennerator.
If you want a bigger PSA generator, may I know the flow rate？
Zeolite wher is it available
How you know purity of oxygen
@@eazanhan6366 we need to built 500 LPM unit ? What is zeolite required and how many cylinders.would you send me sketch to ashishkadam958@gmail.com
@@jagadeeshapatil75Use the oxygen concentration detector
Do you ever attempt to recover the old zeolite? I have been somewhat successful with placing the old zeolite in a convection oven but am wondering if anyone has also done this
Vacuum heat and a chemical dessicant will do the trick,
This could save lives...can you share the details how u made this machine? We really need oxygen here as there is a lot of shortage due to covid in hospitals.
I made a video update, please post comments under that video: ua-cam.com/video/7zN6aUKlhZI/v-deo.html
Beautiful
Why don't you use silica gel to filter out moisture at the starting stage
It would take a LOT of silica gel. (The moisture is not a problem) I live in Houston TX USA where the summer humidity is awful and the concentrators work fine at 90-95%, using 30 year old sieve! The sieve is regenerated by baking under vacuum.
Thankyou
Hello good day
I'm Leonardo from Mexico, I saw that in your video you used the zeolite "JLOX-101". I would like to know if the zeolite you used is still delivering a good oxygen concentration?
first of all, Thanks
Hi, yes, after this change of zeolite there wasn't any significant problem with this machine and it is working just fine. Me - the guy in red shirt at 0:41 who was working on it as well.
What is experience with CESA make sieves?
what is the pressure going on into the sieve bed?
It's around 1.4 - 2 bar. Around 2.2 - 2.5 bar starts flushing out the safety valves on compressors. Me - the guy in red shirt at 0:41 who was working on it as well.
Hello,
How long is the life time that Jalon offers in his zeolite?
Usually 10,000hours - 15,000hours
Buenos dias amigo, desearia poder replicar tu trabajo en Peru porque aqui no hay oxigeno y en estas condiciones es muy necesario, te lo agradecere infinitamente si me puedes enviar planos de los tanques de zeolita y toda la informacion posible sera de mucha ayuda. Gracias
Hola soy de Perú, tengo un modelo de concentrador de hasta 1 a 7 lpm de 85-92% funciona con zeolita LiX, escribeme: cecil.calle@gmail.com.
excellent info !!!
can u help me sir my sister oxy concentrator is low presure they have air but to very low and i observe that the noise of unit is gone i hope u can help me sir
Hi, thats tje reason why we abandoned the normal oxycons - too many strange issues :-) I guess yours is leaking - search for a leak on the pressurised air line.
Please check the compressor and pipeline on your oxygen generator
What kind and size of zeolite for that concentrator? Thanks.
It's 20*40 mesh or 0.4-0.8mm,lithium type zeolite
@@eazanhan6366 does the cylinders are "series" connected? or work alternating. System uses vacuum for evacuating residual nitrogen? Thanks :)
@@enriquegonzalez2802 1. The cylinder is actually the adsorption tower of the oxygen generator. One cylinder is adsorbed while the other cylinder is regenerated, and they work alternately. 2. The system does not use the separated nitrogen, which will be discharged into the air
where did you buy your zeolite?
He is our client.We are Jalon company. if you want to change the molecular sieve oxygen generator, welcome to contact us, we are specialized in the production of oxygen molecular sieve. My mailbox is erin@jalonzeolite.com
@@erinhan3393 hello,
what is the useful life of zeolite?
@@camino_eterno8840 Usually 10,000 hours-15,000hours
Habe you ever made any Tests If it's worth IT with the electricity price/ oxygen price? That would be very interesting in my opinion