The Macra Terror's backgrounds were hand painted as well. My friend Graham did a lot of them and it was great to see the original paintings at his house. Thanks Josh.
@@JoshSnares blast, because my word a literal 17 outshone them... And they were flying solo. Dinopuff is destined for greatness. Of this I am sure. Thank you for everything you do Josh. 🥰
out of the first 34 Patrick Troughton episodes; only 7 remain. its such a shame that we miss out on so much of his early work. the first complete story is Tomb Of The Cybermen… meaning we don’t have a single Ben & Polly story in its entirety.
i really adore what they're going for stylistically but before that Celestial Toymaker trailer was released i was also young and naïve, thinking Peter Purves' face wouldn't be gerrymandered, but such is life
Rob and I collaborated many years ago on a few Doctor Who South Park animations, where I did the character designs. It was a hoot to see them moving! Shout out to Rob if he sees this!
Jodie Whittaker’s TARDIS had the alcove for entry with no additional doors to the console room. I figured the classic console room had doors that went with the alcove giving the console room an extra layer of protection from the outside. Davies and Moffet did away with the alcove and doors leaving only the external doors figuring the second set of doors and alcove were not needed probably. Chibnal put the alcove in at least.
personally I think they should go back to just animating the missing episodes from a story instead of all of them, for example if the wheel in space was animated they could skip out on animating parts 3 and 6 and use the money saved to improve the rest of the episodes
Speaking of Stephen, I would love to hear your thoughts on the Tales of the Tardis episode with The Time Meddler. I found it a very sincere and pleasant tribute to Hartnell and his era, and finally gave some closure to two often-overlooked companions.
Good point. The popularity and hype of the animations has died and I did wonder if it’s because the inconsistent quality. Also, how on earth did you get Underwater Menace already down here?! Can’t find it anywhere! Nor Collection S20 for that matter.
I did backgrounds and character designs on The Reign of Terror, Tenth Planet and Moonbase animations many many years ago for Planet 55. It was one of the most fun projects I've ever been involved in and everyone in the studio was having a great time, with Gary's obsession with getting the exact placement of the plastic tennis balls right on the Cybermen, and people throwing themselves around the office so we could rotoscope them for Cyberman death scenes. Obviously the strange head rigging on Reign was quite bizarre and if I was supreme ruler everything would have been fully 2D animated all the time with no shots ever reused, but the time just wasn't there, sadly. And if I was in charge it would never have come out on time anyway and the studio would have died within a month! I haven't watched many of the recent animated recreations but some of the ones you showed in this video look shocking..!
Glad you're back! I semi recently started watching Classic Who for the first time and a big part of that was because your videos kept popping up on my recommended. Glad to be here for a new video :)
Legit, the Michael Craze character design for these animations has been a pet peeve of mine. Two main things that are less of a time crunch for the teams doing these animations. Sun & Moon Studios, the team behind The Macra Terror animation, apparently struggled with the short deadline and unfortunately dropped continuing doing these Animations (PLEASE COME BACK FOR THE MYTH MAKERS, PLEAAAAASE), and with The Evil of the Daleks animation, the deadline went from 12 months to 18 months. Both Sun & Moon Studios and the BBC Studios team did a marvellous job with their respective releases, but having a longer timeframe to work with helps with everything. Another would be getting a team together to assist Rob. I love Rob's work, both before and during these animations, but the crushing workload and demand definitely needs to be eased if we ever want to see Rob do another one of these animations. If he knows anyone that he trusts with the animation, set designing, modelling, texturing, you name it, get them and get them to find others to trust as well.
I personally think the should go back to the macra terror design, I feel really invested because it feels 3d, is there a reason that was just a one off?
I've seen a couple of them; they're okay in order to see the stories but the animation is kind of uncanny to me. I've seen loads of cartoons in my life so I know it's possible for it to work really well. The Star Trek cartoon in the 70s managed to look like a really good replica of the TV show on a shoestring budget - so I don't get why the Dr Who ones look so weird!
The animation has been all over the place with all of them but at least they all have a similar vibe- 2D, flash looking animations. There are definitely some “this guy stinks” bits but they’re all part of a goofy family. The 3D ones irks me solely because it tanks the matchy matchy vibe, but that’s just me being picky For me it’s a constant war between “be grateful for what you get considering the animated shows get .02 budget and focus and it’s for just classic who people” and “but shouldn’t you be allowed to push for more from such a big company and iconic franchise?”
How wonderful to have you back again!! I thought you made many valid points both for and against what we have had. I was fine with the Underwater Menace one. It was nicely done and didn't seem too egregious to me. The Celestial Toymaker one is a potential worry as I really did dislike Web 3. But the odd 3D style might work for the whackiness of the story. I guess we shall see!
I’m one who has always been indifferent to the animated reconstructions of missing episodes cause I can see their attempt to give us the episodes back in some way but I’m one who likes seeing it as it aired that’s why I started with Jon Pertwee when I started my classic era rewatch cause all of his run going forward is available to watch cause I just love watching the show in general even though Matt is my favorite doctor I can still get enjoyment out of all the doctors and jumping around from animation style to animation style may not have been a good thing in hindsight a more uniform style may have a better decision not that any of the animators are bad but having a more uniform style even it it different for each doctor it would’ve helped with consistency and I thank u for discussing the classic era cause most whotubers don’t discuss it it’s why to me your the keeper of the classic era in a good way
It's an introduction. I will say that. But it is scant replacement for the real thing. The thing I miss most is seeing that early stuff for the first time. Being old and irascible enough to recall 'The Five Faces of...' - It was like a glimpse into some mysterious TV history. The same feeling I still get from those Quatermass recordings. And when 'Lost in Time' came out (played on a disc drive in my tower - watched on a CRT) I made the contents last literally weeks. I couldn't let go of it. Perhaps it's an age thing. Let's face it, my brother dimly recalls the back end of Season 6. He also needs a hip replacement....
Which is ridiculous in a way in that the BBC should never have used those tapes and erased or threw out DW at all! I mean we still have shows from the 1950s and 60s, lost time? Not so much but different, yes. Thank God the US never did that kind of stuff and we still have STAR TREK, LOST IN SPACE, LAND OF THE GIANTS and hundreds of others.
@@charlesmento5968 They did with Johnny Carson’s Tonight show apparently. NBC erasing most of Carson’s content led to him having more control of the show for the remainder of his tenure.
As usual, Josh has hit the nail on the head. The remaining animations need a sufficient budget and some consistent design protocols. They also need to churn them out at a rate faster than the current glacial speed. I am afraid that this will not happen unless and until the classic Who fans make their presence and their buying power well known to the BBC and Disney+. Nothing is going to happen without some pressure and noise.
Ngl the animation style for the celestial toymaker is growing on me. Like you said the original can be a snoozefest at times (probably because of the lack of visuals and that serial relies HEAVILY on visual storytelling). Also dinopuffs recreation of episode 1 is incredible. Really hope he keeps doing more animations like that.
I have to agree. In some cases in my DW marathon I've watched telesnap recons over the recons as I've felt at least you're seeing what was transmitted.
I am a big fan of 60s Who, particularly the Troughton era. I love the animations, but I have been put off by some of the artistic choices made. I agree that they should just expand on the sets, etc rather than make significant changes. I'm old enough to remember the BBCi flash animations for Death Comes to Time so obviously even the worst animations are more sophisticated than that but when I saw the clips from the Celestial Toymaker I did experience a flash, joke intended, of nostalgia for those days. The artwork at least looked like the characters and it had a simple charm. Not entirely serious but I think they should try and make the animations look as close to the episodes as time and money will allow.
I love these animations. But I feel like you are right. They range in quality range WILDY. I want more but I personally like the black and white (unprofitable) ones more. I don't mind the color ones but I feels like the quality went down when they added color (with a few notable acceptions). Give the teams working on these 15% more time and money. And they might all be as good as Power of the Daleks.
Great to have a new vid, missed them soooo much! They should all be 3D, and as realistic as it can be, whilst I’m a purist at heart,you’re quite right that it could never replicate the original, so some artistic license should be allowed to make the story as good as it could have been if the BBC had movie budgets of the time. We all know that sometimes, some stories lack pace, compared to todays, so maybe they should be allowed to alter the length slightly, much akin to the colourised Daleks story (I would love to see your thoughts on it Josh!).
The nice thing is that, with how much technology continues to advance, it won't be long before fanmade animations will be able to reach a similar level of quality to the current official ones.
You made a really strong case for keeping 3D backgrounds, but to make the case for 2D backgrounds: it's more immediately believable to me that these 2D characters exist within that space. The composting on previous animations usually avoided issues with this though, and the impressiveness of that can't be undersold. I really loved The Underwater Menace's animation, it gave me a newfound appreciation for the story but I agree with your criticisms, though I'm not sure much could recapture the sheer excitement of sitting down for The Evil of the Daleks' animation for the first time and how impressive that felt. I really hope that the next animation this team take on is The Myth Makers, my head tells me it'll probably be The Highlanders, but Vicki is my favourite companion and I find the story a lot of fun. I wish they kept her on longer but I'd love to have a shiny new version of Vicki's departure.
The audio can often be better on these, or maybe its my old ears. I know from experience doing audio remastering that they could be a lot better. They seem to have done the bare minimum to the audio.
Great Video! Personally I think it's hard to say how the Animation range can improve in its current form, I must say I do miss the lightning from releases of evil and so on, if they ever do daleks masterplan (chances are they might do it as two releases, which honestly, I am fine with) I think a story like this really needs the lightning from previous Releases back. Besides, it all stories we have left are historicals or some of the rather less liked sci-fi ones (space pirates, wheel in space) or some which most people are meh on. Some may say the approach behind the 2010 Animation should have been followed up. I personally disagree, while I think it benefits any of the stories which is almost complete (like Web, like Underwater), I think for the rest going with the approach we have seen since 2016 is the way to go. Although I do wish we had one style instead of multiple different ones, I am very curious how this range continues, especially since some harder ones are left to do, I think an animation can only improve middle stories like Space Pirates or Wheel. Meanwhile, stories like the massacre or the highlanders may need to be some of the last ones, since I do think they probably will do a lot of the historicals as 3D Animations rather than 2D and that style really needs some work, then again that team might also just do something else. What ever the future holds I am very curious to see it, hopefully we get more Season 3 Animations and the last few Throughton Stories
I haven't minded having more than one production company working on the releases. It means we can get releases more often. I just wish they spent more time on the likenesses. I don't enjoy them if I can't see the actor they are meant to be.
“Welcome Back Josh - All Is Forgiven!” As a designer I totally agree about the importance of lighting! Think I’m the only person that loves Toymaker - the imagery haunted me as a kid. I’m still excited to see Master Plan animated one day… Hopefully well! Until then I’ll just carry on mooching round my local Mormon church 😉
Watching The Invasion with the missing episodes completed with animation by Cosgrove Hall that perfectly complemented the style of the original was perfect. Seeing a complete story in a jarring style isn’t quite the same
Because I just want to see the missing stories available in *any* format and for them to thus be commercially available to a wider audience, I don’t have strong opinions on the different styles of the animated episodes (though I agree with you that “Evil of the Daleks” was the high point). What I do feel strongly about is I wish the choice of which stories to animate would be rooted in how they are gauged by the fans. “The Daleks’ Master Plan” and “Marco Polo” have always ranked near the top of surveys of Hartnell’s best stories, and in my opinion, the writing in “The Massacre” rivals any historical drama ever made for UK TV. But none of these stories have animated episodes, and while “Marco Polo” isn’t a favorite of mine, just imagine the possibilities - those vast outdoors sets, the colorful costumes, fight scenes, all just crying out for animation. Yet, many of the stories selected for animation have consistently ranked as weak entries, e.g. “Galaxy 4,” “The Underwater Menace,” and, Lord help us, “The Celestial Toymaker.” The time and money spent to animate these three are a real head scratcher to me, when there are much stronger stories that remain untouched.
I've been checked out of Doctor Who since 2020. Without a way to access the new episodes, I have no way to (legally) watch them, and, with them now throwing their lot in with a company I do my best not to support, who have already ruined one franchise I love (Disney and Star Wars), I don't see a relationship between me and Doctor Who any more. With that being said. It still pleases me to see the animations continue. I have high hopes for the range. I hope they're successful. I hope they're so successful, in fact, that we get original animations. Like Dreamland, but for Classic Who, or even older New Who. Who wouldn't love more Nine and Rose? But this is me wishing success on those creating the animation, not those in charge. I hope the animators get the budget they deserve, like you said.
I know most people compared the Toymaker animation to the TellTale games, but personally, I think it fits. The story is very imaginative and abstract, and I think the animation lends itself to that style perfectly. I get what the team were trying to do with the Web of Fear, but I feel they've learned their lesson there. The animations, in my opinion, should find a balance between what was originally broadcast (from what little we have) and the team's art style. Expound on what came before and make it feel fresh. Experiment and find the best way to convey the original story for a modern audience. That is what I hope they'll do with future reconstructions.
Love TellTale Games! Sam and Max and Back to the Future the Game are my go-to games from that company. And that's a great way to put it in terms of how the missing episode animations should be made. Having that balance between trying to stick with the original source material and expanding on it creatively. Animation is a art form after all and experimenting with it can lead to some pretty fantastic results.
Another great video, Josh. Evil is my favourite as well, its really a good watch, with Faceless a close 2nd. Following Web & Galaxy, sorry these really put me off from future animations.
@JoshSnares I've always enjoyed Faceless and I found the lighting of the animation quite moody (IMO). I've also Fan Edited Evil to a 90min omnibus but also have the full eps as well as on my Plex server. Contemplating doing same for Faceless.
Not sure if I was me or not, but when I watched Underwater Menace, there was fringing happening around the character. On the main menu, you could see fringing around them a badly cut out png. I could see that in episode too. Also, between frames, sometimes I was seeing scan line, like it was interlaced or something. I have never before noticed that. It is possible it was due to me watching a UK blu ray on a region free player in the US. But again, I'd never noticed any glaring issues like this before. So, I going to guess its either the compositing, or, for some reason, it just didnt play right on my blu ray player? Either way, it was very distracting, and it took me out of the episode entirely, noticing the characters fringing and scan lining every so often.
I'm a Web 3 defender lol... and I hope I'll like Celestial Toymaker too (I like the stuff they're doing with the Toymaker's realm, and hope they go all the way, doing stuff that just wasn't possible in the 60's)
@@JoshSnares Yea, I mean, I do _get_ the criticisms, and agree to some extent, but they're things that I can personally look past. Celestial Toymaker definitely looks to be an improvement. It's nice to have respectful disagreements about experiences of media, and I respect that you always have that upfront with your videos :)
While I don't mind the different styles of animations as much as other people, I do understand that some people like consistency. I think if the animations were done by one studio, under one main vision, direction, and with a increased budget, this wouldn't be an issue. Remember, the animations bounce a bit between companies, so you can't really get enough consistency between each production and animation.
To me, remembering some of the earlier releases (the original telesnap reconstruction of Underwater Menace, the original Power of the Daleks, etc), how much of this isn't the animation team(s), but is instead the powers that be (AKA the BBC)?
I still think the best approach to official animations, and to get the budget/audience is to treat them like their own series, broadcast on BBC channels, add to Iplayer like the normal series and treat them as a spinoff. Having them straight to DVD doesn't alert many fans that they are even being made, or easy to access without splashing out £20 to buy it. Also use the Evil/Macra approach, with animation style and closeness to the originals, anything after evil seems a little too far away from original design lol
I would like the Space Pirates or the Highlanders to be animated next, I know that they may not be a well liked episode and that we have had loads of Troughton episodes animated but then we can get a Season 6/4 Blue ray collection box set. I know we still need the Smugglers for Season 4 but there was that news of it being animated alongside the underwater menace if that is still happening considering the Celestial Toymaker is being animated next and not the Smugglers
Of course I would like to see CGI reconstructions based on the telesnaps and surviving footage. I would also like the Beeb to pay for bounty hunters to find the "collectors" who have the missing tapes. I am happy with whatever we get for me, it's better than nothing. Watching the Evil of the Daleks animation made me realize how relatively subdued Patrick Troughton's performance was in that story. I wonder if the director told him to tone it down a bit or if he was having a bad week or something.
Great review vid👍🏻👌🏻😄👏🏻, I completely understand the profitability aspect 🤑 but, for myself, I still preffered the old Reign of Terror / Moonbase & Tenth Planet animations. Don't get me wrong, I 💕 the guys making the new animations, the large scale sets (although I do think they should keep the original as close as possible to surviving episodes & not be given Carte' Blanche or you get epic failures like the ugly/lazy Rill ship interior of Galaxy Four & Underwater Menace Sea Temple, but if no episides exist then they should be given Carte' Blanche) & I'll take anything just to see these wonderful (& sadly lost in 'time & space, literally) episodes reanimated from the beyond... BUT‼️ I still wish that the moody old animations such as The Invasion where upgraded / funded moreso as I think that, by now, they would be far superior. I didn't even bother buying the Web of Fear & sadly The Celestial Toymaker looks like something similar but regardless I shall still buy it.... 🤷🏻♂️ On a personal note... Please, please, please do a review on The Daleks in Colour when it's released later in February 2024 🙏🏻😄🙏🏻
The new approach on Underwater Menace looks like Hanna-Barbera, and that isn't good, but The Celestial Toymaker looks like a PS1 game. I really wish they just did them all in Evil of the Daleks style.
I didnt mind Underwater Menace, but those quibbles are valid. I do hope they improve the lighting for the next project. I'll be really curious to see how Celestial Toymaker turns out. Ir looks miles and miles above Web of Fear thats for sure
There's always the option to listen to just the soundtrack like fans have been doing for years, so anything we get given is usually welcome for me, simply because it gives us a new release in the DVD/Blu-ray range, which has consistently been of very high quality regarding additional features.
Another great video, thanks Josh. The Macra Terror and Menace animations made me reappraise my low opinion about both stories and I really enjoyed both of them, especially Menace. Still can’t see past those awful arms on Fury though, so disappointing and something very basic to get right in my most sought after re-release. Good points too about the lighting and scene composition in the better animations, but I did not notice them missing from Menace too much. Hope someone will do The Highlanders properly now.
Isn't the point of the interior/exterior Tardis doors that it's all super-advanced and so, therefore, magic? It just reminds of a UFO case where a driver and his passenger saw something different on the road. One saw the UFO. The other... saw a bus.
Josh - going slitely off topic but did you enjoy colourised Daleks? May be a video on your thoughts on colourising 60's Who. Seen some good some bad attempts myself.
Great vid josh! I sorta hate the 3d animation of the celestial toymaker it’s putrid imo, I don’t think they should keep doing 3d until they get a larger budget
I enjoyed the animation of Celestial Toymaker that a fan did of the complete episode 1. It used computer animation, but was very engaging. I’m surprised they didn’t use him for this new release as it was presumably cheap, but very effective.
For me, I’m just glad we’re getting the animations. These have enabled me to rediscover Patrick Troughton’s Doctor. The only other stories I need to get are The Dominators, The Mind Robber, and The Krotons. The War Games will take a while as the DVD is over $100 on Amazon and eBay. The Highlanders, The Wheel in Space and The Space Pirates are the only stories that don’t have any animations at all. So I will look forward to seeing them should they come. Then I can have Patrick Troughton’s entire run, and enjoy it.
Animations mildly scare me man, it’s just constant uncanny valley, far too frightening. But I have picked up evil of the daleks because that’s one that didn’t look absolutely terrifying and actually rather lovely. Great video as always man!
Even though I enjoyed underwater menace quite a lot I feel it’s a definite step back compared to some of that team’s previous work. Your comments about the lack of lighting and shading really hits on a good portion on what is wrong with it. With just a couple of extra months work I’m sure it could have been avoided. Rob sadly not being brought back due to him falling out with one of the higher ups is unfortunate. Hopefully someone is able to smooth things over so he can come back in future. Sadly going by the lack of polish it also looks like the budget has been slashed. It looks a bit lower budget than others. Whether it’s down to the new funding model having less money or simply been allocated less money because it’s the underwater menace I’m not sure but if it’s the former it might be problematic going forward especially as the animations are only going to get harder once you get passed the likes of smugglers, savages,myth makers, wheel and space pirates. The celestial toymaker I’m mixed on. The likenesses don’t look good at all. However the shot in the trailer with joey the clown trying to walk along the board really got my interest. Looks like they are going for a surreal reimagining approach. Considering how cheap and nasty looking the original looked I’m actually not against going mad with it and trying to make it more surreal and make the sets a bit more expensive. If they tried this on say the massacre it absolutely would not have worked but toymaker the surrealism kind of fits the story. As for the 3d style it looks better than web of fear but I need to see more of it than the 30 second trailer that we have seen. Im not against stories being done in 3d as I feel some stories may struggle to get done in 2d but I feel they have a long way to go before they get given the keys to do something more complex or difficult like highlanders. I know some have said why didn’t they just get dinopuff but they were already well into production by the time his work came to the BBC’s attention. He also had zero professional experience (as good as his toymaker was it was still a fan thing and not professional) and he was also 17 and still at school at the time. Being realistic there was no chance they were hiring him at that time and even if they did he would not have been put in any sort of charge for him to influence the look and feel of it regardless how good his version was. Say what you will about about the people working on the animations especially the likes of Chloe greich who is overseeing the toymaker animation but they have had years of experience professionally before being placed in these positions of being in charge of these productions. He has a bright future. His meeting on the common is excellent and it offers professional experience to him and so that is at least a stepping stone to get noticed and hired by the bbc. As for what I want going forward well the only thing I really want outside of some historical animations is the animations to have more time and money allocated to them. The animators are all mega talented however they are definitely not given enough time or compensated enough for their hard work. The unmovable strict deadlines makes their work suffer sometimes and affects quality of work. I know some have said be more like the originals but seeing as it’s a different medium and with the exclusion of the soundtrack it’s pretty much a new version I’m ok with deviating from what was originally there. What works in live action doesn’t necessary work in animation so sometimes changes are necessary. I’m also ok with them to carry on animating episodes that exist. It may seem a waste to us fans who have no use for them but to streamers and broadcasters who want a consistent viewing experience in a colour widescreen format it’s essential. It’s my understanding that without these streamers and broadcasters these releases are no longer viable so animating the whole thing is unfortunately necessary.
I'm not a lover of the Doctor Who animations, they always come across as Flash animations you'd see on Newgrounds in the early '00s. And for the budget they're given nowadays, you could recreate episodes in Unreal 5 and they'd be pretty authentic to the original video.
The conventional animation used to do 10th Planet ep4,, The Moonbase, and The Invasion were the best. More recent releases have been very basic and nowhere aa good.
To be honest, I don't mind the animation as seen on the trailer of The Celestial Toymaker, it seems like they got most of the characters right (apart from Steven) this time around. It does seem rather stilted in movement at times, but it's alright. I will buy the animations still so I can have something that does somewhat resemble the episodes, the only one I haven't bought is the Web of Fear because I'm noping that animation. Telesnap is fine enough for me.
Well, in spite of less stellar animation lately, I'm just glad that these releases are still happening, especially since it seemed for a hot minute that we weren't getting any more. I don't want to say that I don't care about the quality of the animation but I'll take what I can get. I honestly don't know how they can improve this without a larger budget. But we must expect that the budget will most likely never increase by much. Still, uniformity in style would be nice(if the style is really cool) but seems unlikely. I'm not getting any younger, so I just want to be able to add all the remaining stories to my video collection while I can.
I watched the Season 4 animations on the Iplayer and I think they look good honestly. I like the style they go for, especially Macra and Faceless Enemies. The cartoony style they go for really fits the format and I like how the hair has more shape to it than Evil of Daleks. Sometimes I could tell that assets weren’t rendered in the highest of quality so my main request would be to try to keep everything in 4k without pixelating if possible. Also sometimes the more simple movements can be a little stiff like walking for example but that’s more so a nitpick than criticism. I just like having the stories available to watch, really made me grow to love the second doctor a lot more thanks to actually having his stuff to watch (The reconstructions are unwatchable in my opinion) I’m really excited for the Highlanders whenever they get around to it.
Great video buddy! I collect the animations - I'm an unashamed steelbook/Dr.Who animation collector fan! Don't always watch thrm though! 😂😂 wish they would do The Daleks Master Plan!
Great review vid 👍🏻😄👌🏻 thanks so much... I 💕 these reviews. Please, please, please do a review on The Daleks in Colour 🔴🔵 when it's released later in February 2024 🙏🏻😄🙏🏻 I would really appreciate your view not only on the wonderful colour inhanced version... 🔵🔴 but also the editorial cut to make the story 'speedier' & more 'quick' 💨
@@JoshSnares AWESOME‼️👌🏻👍🏻😄😂 I can't wait for your views on the COLOUR 🔴🔵, editing of it 🎞️🎞️🎞️ & your overall impressions... I'm stoked for that video 😂🎉🎊🙌🏻🎇🎆 can't wait 🍻😊
Michael Craze did have that quintessential boy (or should I say lad) next-door quality. I almost forget about him salivating over Frasier Hines' Jamie... _"Nothing beats a great pair of Leggs!"_ I was taken aback by how Ben was presented in _"The Power of The Daleks."_ They actually made him look older and mainly angry. 😲
I think even the weakest animations we've had are still worth it, they're still something and they're generally more accessible than the reconstructions. Of course that doesn't negate criticism though cause I'd still rather them be the best possible quality we can get from them. For example I absolutely agree that the big issue with the Celestial Toymaker is facial animation. But personally I don't think I'll ever be over them as long as there are still missing stories left to be animated.
i wish they had used the same animation style for the classic who ones they used on either scream of the shalka or the infinite quest featuring 10 and martha on a side note i want more doctor who media featuring the version of the doctor wfrom scream of the shalka i really enjoyed that doctor's attitude throughout i saw parts of 10's now your going to pay attitude and parts of 12's stubbornness
Personally wow I didn’t even notice how Steven looked in The Celestial Toymaker animation. Looks almost like a picture taken from the original Star Trek.
The animations do seem to be in a tricky spot right now. On one hand, I will be grateful to get any continuation of the range (especially with the period we briefly thought they were done). On the other, it does seem like for whatever reason (money, interest) the quality is a little lower for these last 2. I’m a little more okay with it for Toymaker and Menace, but it’s hard to imagine it would go down well with Marco, Myth Makers, or Dalek Masterplan. Big respect though to all those putting in so many hours!
I realised when watching the animation of The Macra Terror which everybody seems to think is top tier on IPlayer why I don't like these animations. It just looks so... empty. I just can't get into them because of that. When I looked up the telesnaps it all became so clear, if they fixed the aspect ratio, thus putting all the characters closer together it wouldn't look that bad, I suppose they did this because having a smaller aspect ratio wasn't as profitable but it just looks so dull. Another thing is they just need to add more action in the background instead of the characters standing still, why they don't do this makes more sense because of time and budgeting constraints but if they have the chance to add movement it'll be so much better.
I watch them all in Black and White, so the lighting/atmosphere is less of a big issue for me (I think the spooky moments look better in black and white anyway) but I agree this is a misstep for the colour versions.
The Macra Terror's backgrounds were hand painted as well. My friend Graham did a lot of them and it was great to see the original paintings at his house. Thanks Josh.
Graham did an incredible job!
Graham Bleathman's Thunderbirds paintings and cutaways have left an indelible impression on me since childhood
“This guy stinks” is engrained in my mind forever now.
It’s iconic
Made me turn the video off after about 10 minutes to be honest and I was kind of enjoying it otherwise. So awful when overused to that extent.
Toymaker and web of fear are bad but i dont see whats wrong with the others
@@JoshSnaresit’s an annoying earwig now
My biggest issue with the Celestial Toymaker is why didn't they get Dinopuff to just do it? Their version of Part 1 was perfection.
They were working on the official release WAY before Dinopuff posted any of their Celestial Toymaker
@@JoshSnares blast, because my word a literal 17 outshone them... And they were flying solo.
Dinopuff is destined for greatness. Of this I am sure.
Thank you for everything you do Josh. 🥰
@JoshSnares @@ThatRandomFastingGuy Have you seen Mel's A Meeting on the Common animation? It's utterly terrific, of course (but I might be biased).
Dinopuff's version is amazing.
@@ThatRandomFastingGuy i mean if he contacts them they might work with him to do a more favorable release
out of the first 34 Patrick Troughton episodes; only 7 remain. its such a shame that we miss out on so much of his early work. the first complete story is Tomb Of The Cybermen… meaning we don’t have a single Ben & Polly story in its entirety.
Less than 20 seconds in and I’m already smiling - that Nyssa wallpaper is awesome!
My personal favorite was whatever was used for the moonbase, like it's so good
i really adore what they're going for stylistically but before that Celestial Toymaker trailer was released i was also young and naïve, thinking Peter Purves' face wouldn't be gerrymandered, but such is life
We can never win 😞
I could never watch anything that did _that_ to Peter Purves's face. Sacrilege.
Wake up babe, new Josh Snares video
Let’s goooooo
-just dropped 😂
@@JoshSnares it could make more sense for these animations to not be released individually maybe apart the collection release that they’re doing
Also, Doccy Who Michael Craze Appreciation Society needs to happen.
Feel like it would get inappropriate FAST 😅
@@JoshSnares yeah to being real inappropriate with Mr Craze!
Please don't call it "Doccy Who".
@@johnnymain777 😂 you’re kidding, right?
*sad Elliot Chapman noises*
Rob and I collaborated many years ago on a few Doctor Who South Park animations, where I did the character designs. It was a hoot to see them moving! Shout out to Rob if he sees this!
Good to have you back! Are you planning on doing anymore of your big finish animations? Those are amazing!
Maybe but not anytime soon lol, they take a lot of time
@@JoshSnares or why not recreate some 60s missing episodes?
I always felt there there was a walk through alcove linking the outer doors to the inner doors of the Tardis that was just never seen …🤔🤷♂️
I just thought they're not the same doors. They both just mark the location of two sides of the portal.
There are some episodes (like The Daleks) where you can see the inner doors leading straight to the outside
Jodie Whittaker’s TARDIS had the alcove for entry with no additional doors to the console room. I figured the classic console room had doors that went with the alcove giving the console room an extra layer of protection from the outside.
Davies and Moffet did away with the alcove and doors leaving only the external doors figuring the second set of doors and alcove were not needed probably. Chibnal put the alcove in at least.
I love Josh. It gives me joy to see him revel in his passion for Dr Who.
personally I think they should go back to just animating the missing episodes from a story instead of all of them, for example if the wheel in space was animated they could skip out on animating parts 3 and 6 and use the money saved to improve the rest of the episodes
Yeah, I'd prefer that - but they have to release them to a wider audience than just us!
Speaking of Stephen, I would love to hear your thoughts on the Tales of the Tardis episode with The Time Meddler. I found it a very sincere and pleasant tribute to Hartnell and his era, and finally gave some closure to two often-overlooked companions.
Loved, loved, LOVED Tales of the TARDIS. I really need to get around to making a video about it...
Good point. The popularity and hype of the animations has died and I did wonder if it’s because the inconsistent quality.
Also, how on earth did you get Underwater Menace already down here?! Can’t find it anywhere! Nor Collection S20 for that matter.
Imported it from the UK, babes!
Josh Snares is Back with another video!!! Rejoice!!! Looking forward to watching this! :D
😎😎
😁😁
I did backgrounds and character designs on The Reign of Terror, Tenth Planet and Moonbase animations many many years ago for Planet 55. It was one of the most fun projects I've ever been involved in and everyone in the studio was having a great time, with Gary's obsession with getting the exact placement of the plastic tennis balls right on the Cybermen, and people throwing themselves around the office so we could rotoscope them for Cyberman death scenes. Obviously the strange head rigging on Reign was quite bizarre and if I was supreme ruler everything would have been fully 2D animated all the time with no shots ever reused, but the time just wasn't there, sadly. And if I was in charge it would never have come out on time anyway and the studio would have died within a month!
I haven't watched many of the recent animated recreations but some of the ones you showed in this video look shocking..!
Love, love, love your work! The detail you added was just beautiful. Great to hear your insight!! 💕
Glad you're back! I semi recently started watching Classic Who for the first time and a big part of that was because your videos kept popping up on my recommended. Glad to be here for a new video :)
Oh thank you!
U should watch Josh’s 3 part documentary on the missing episodes it’s fantastic and felt well researched if u like behind the scenes information
Legit, the Michael Craze character design for these animations has been a pet peeve of mine.
Two main things that are less of a time crunch for the teams doing these animations. Sun & Moon Studios, the team behind The Macra Terror animation, apparently struggled with the short deadline and unfortunately dropped continuing doing these Animations (PLEASE COME BACK FOR THE MYTH MAKERS, PLEAAAAASE), and with The Evil of the Daleks animation, the deadline went from 12 months to 18 months. Both Sun & Moon Studios and the BBC Studios team did a marvellous job with their respective releases, but having a longer timeframe to work with helps with everything.
Another would be getting a team together to assist Rob. I love Rob's work, both before and during these animations, but the crushing workload and demand definitely needs to be eased if we ever want to see Rob do another one of these animations. If he knows anyone that he trusts with the animation, set designing, modelling, texturing, you name it, get them and get them to find others to trust as well.
The animations being made specifically for Josh would explain a lot 😂❤
Everything is about ME
I personally think the should go back to the macra terror design, I feel really invested because it feels 3d, is there a reason that was just a one off?
Sun and Moon did the character animation for that, and they just had a different approach. I preferred their style too!
Doctor Who fandom is rough and gnarly, but Josh Snares is the exception. I don't think Josh realises how much people love them. Simply the best. ✨
that is very sweet, thank you!
I've seen a couple of them; they're okay in order to see the stories but the animation is kind of uncanny to me. I've seen loads of cartoons in my life so I know it's possible for it to work really well. The Star Trek cartoon in the 70s managed to look like a really good replica of the TV show on a shoestring budget - so I don't get why the Dr Who ones look so weird!
The invasion was one of the best animations
And the first one I think.
13:43 What about the Macra Terror?
A very interesting a well-made video as always. I personally am not a fan of the direction they've taken the animations in either. Keep it up!
Thank you :)
The animation has been all over the place with all of them but at least they all have a similar vibe- 2D, flash looking animations. There are definitely some “this guy stinks” bits but they’re all part of a goofy family. The 3D ones irks me solely because it tanks the matchy matchy vibe, but that’s just me being picky
For me it’s a constant war between “be grateful for what you get considering the animated shows get .02 budget and focus and it’s for just classic who people” and “but shouldn’t you be allowed to push for more from such a big company and iconic franchise?”
How wonderful to have you back again!! I thought you made many valid points both for and against what we have had. I was fine with the Underwater Menace one. It was nicely done and didn't seem too egregious to me. The Celestial Toymaker one is a potential worry as I really did dislike Web 3. But the odd 3D style might work for the whackiness of the story. I guess we shall see!
I’m one who has always been indifferent to the animated reconstructions of missing episodes cause I can see their attempt to give us the episodes back in some way but I’m one who likes seeing it as it aired that’s why I started with Jon Pertwee when I started my classic era rewatch cause all of his run going forward is available to watch cause I just love watching the show in general even though Matt is my favorite doctor I can still get enjoyment out of all the doctors and jumping around from animation style to animation style may not have been a good thing in hindsight a more uniform style may have a better decision not that any of the animators are bad but having a more uniform style even it it different for each doctor it would’ve helped with consistency and I thank u for discussing the classic era cause most whotubers don’t discuss it it’s why to me your the keeper of the classic era in a good way
I think that the original Macra prop, if you made it more organic, but chunky, would be a lot more terrifying as a 3D animated model.
It's an introduction. I will say that. But it is scant replacement for the real thing. The thing I miss most is seeing that early stuff for the first time. Being old and irascible enough to recall 'The Five Faces of...' - It was like a glimpse into some mysterious TV history. The same feeling I still get from those Quatermass recordings. And when 'Lost in Time' came out (played on a disc drive in my tower - watched on a CRT) I made the contents last literally weeks. I couldn't let go of it. Perhaps it's an age thing. Let's face it, my brother dimly recalls the back end of Season 6. He also needs a hip replacement....
Which is ridiculous in a way in that the BBC should never have used those tapes and erased or threw out DW at all! I mean we still have shows from the 1950s and 60s, lost time? Not so much but different, yes. Thank God the US never did that kind of stuff and we still have STAR TREK, LOST IN SPACE, LAND OF THE GIANTS and hundreds of others.
@@charlesmento5968 They did with Johnny Carson’s Tonight show apparently. NBC erasing most of Carson’s content led to him having more control of the show for the remainder of his tenure.
As usual, Josh has hit the nail on the head. The remaining animations need a sufficient budget and some consistent design protocols. They also need to churn them out at a rate faster than the current glacial speed. I am afraid that this will not happen unless and until the classic Who fans make their presence and their buying power well known to the BBC and Disney+. Nothing is going to happen without some pressure and noise.
Ngl the animation style for the celestial toymaker is growing on me. Like you said the original can be a snoozefest at times (probably because of the lack of visuals and that serial relies HEAVILY on visual storytelling).
Also dinopuffs recreation of episode 1 is incredible. Really hope he keeps doing more animations like that.
I have to agree. In some cases in my DW marathon I've watched telesnap recons over the recons as I've felt at least you're seeing what was transmitted.
I am a big fan of 60s Who, particularly the Troughton era.
I love the animations, but I have been put off by some of the artistic choices made.
I agree that they should just expand on the sets, etc rather than make significant changes.
I'm old enough to remember the BBCi flash animations for Death Comes to Time so obviously even the worst animations are more sophisticated than that but when I saw the clips from the Celestial Toymaker I did experience a flash, joke intended, of nostalgia for those days. The artwork at least looked like the characters and it had a simple charm.
Not entirely serious but I think they should try and make the animations look as close to the episodes as time and money will allow.
I love these animations. But I feel like you are right. They range in quality range WILDY. I want more but I personally like the black and white (unprofitable) ones more. I don't mind the color ones but I feels like the quality went down when they added color (with a few notable acceptions). Give the teams working on these 15% more time and money. And they might all be as good as Power of the Daleks.
Great to have a new vid, missed them soooo much!
They should all be 3D, and as realistic as it can be, whilst I’m a purist at heart,you’re quite right that it could never replicate the original, so some artistic license should be allowed to make the story as good as it could have been if the BBC had movie budgets of the time.
We all know that sometimes, some stories lack pace, compared to todays, so maybe they should be allowed to alter the length slightly, much akin to the colourised Daleks story (I would love to see your thoughts on it Josh!).
The nice thing is that, with how much technology continues to advance, it won't be long before fanmade animations will be able to reach a similar level of quality to the current official ones.
Hopefully! Not many people end up finishing their projects, because it's a lot for just one person..
You made a really strong case for keeping 3D backgrounds, but to make the case for 2D backgrounds: it's more immediately believable to me that these 2D characters exist within that space. The composting on previous animations usually avoided issues with this though, and the impressiveness of that can't be undersold. I really loved The Underwater Menace's animation, it gave me a newfound appreciation for the story but I agree with your criticisms, though I'm not sure much could recapture the sheer excitement of sitting down for The Evil of the Daleks' animation for the first time and how impressive that felt.
I really hope that the next animation this team take on is The Myth Makers, my head tells me it'll probably be The Highlanders, but Vicki is my favourite companion and I find the story a lot of fun. I wish they kept her on longer but I'd love to have a shiny new version of Vicki's departure.
I seem to remember their was an interview with Rob Ritchie which I believe hinted at some kind of falling out with the BBC team
Yeah that was my interview with him! 😂
If episode 1 is ever found, will Jackie Lane's soaking by Joey be chopped out of that also?
it’s joshy time
😎
The audio can often be better on these, or maybe its my old ears. I know from experience doing audio remastering that they could be a lot better. They seem to have done the bare minimum to the audio.
Great Video! Personally I think it's hard to say how the Animation range can improve in its current form, I must say I do miss the lightning from releases of evil and so on, if they ever do daleks masterplan (chances are they might do it as two releases, which honestly, I am fine with) I think a story like this really needs the lightning from previous Releases back. Besides, it all stories we have left are historicals or some of the rather less liked sci-fi ones (space pirates, wheel in space) or some which most people are meh on. Some may say the approach behind the 2010 Animation should have been followed up. I personally disagree, while I think it benefits any of the stories which is almost complete (like Web, like Underwater), I think for the rest going with the approach we have seen since 2016 is the way to go. Although I do wish we had one style instead of multiple different ones, I am very curious how this range continues, especially since some harder ones are left to do, I think an animation can only improve middle stories like Space Pirates or Wheel. Meanwhile, stories like the massacre or the highlanders may need to be some of the last ones, since I do think they probably will do a lot of the historicals as 3D Animations rather than 2D and that style really needs some work, then again that team might also just do something else. What ever the future holds I am very curious to see it, hopefully we get more Season 3 Animations and the last few Throughton Stories
a lot of people forget about the Savages - brilliant story to animate.
@@darrenhale2351 Oh yeah true! I think it might be one of the next hartnell animations, at least I am guessing!
I haven't minded having more than one production company working on the releases. It means we can get releases more often. I just wish they spent more time on the likenesses. I don't enjoy them if I can't see the actor they are meant to be.
“Welcome Back Josh - All Is Forgiven!” As a designer I totally agree about the importance of lighting!
Think I’m the only person that loves Toymaker - the imagery haunted me as a kid.
I’m still excited to see Master Plan animated one day… Hopefully well! Until then I’ll just carry on mooching round my local Mormon church 😉
Watching The Invasion with the missing episodes completed with animation by Cosgrove Hall that perfectly complemented the style of the original was perfect. Seeing a complete story in a jarring style isn’t quite the same
Because I just want to see the missing stories available in *any* format and for them to thus be commercially available to a wider audience, I don’t have strong opinions on the different styles of the animated episodes (though I agree with you that “Evil of the Daleks” was the high point). What I do feel strongly about is I wish the choice of which stories to animate would be rooted in how they are gauged by the fans. “The Daleks’ Master Plan” and “Marco Polo” have always ranked near the top of surveys of Hartnell’s best stories, and in my opinion, the writing in “The Massacre” rivals any historical drama ever made for UK TV. But none of these stories have animated episodes, and while “Marco Polo” isn’t a favorite of mine, just imagine the possibilities - those vast outdoors sets, the colorful costumes, fight scenes, all just crying out for animation. Yet, many of the stories selected for animation have consistently ranked as weak entries, e.g. “Galaxy 4,” “The Underwater Menace,” and, Lord help us, “The Celestial Toymaker.” The time and money spent to animate these three are a real head scratcher to me, when there are much stronger stories that remain untouched.
I've been checked out of Doctor Who since 2020. Without a way to access the new episodes, I have no way to (legally) watch them, and, with them now throwing their lot in with a company I do my best not to support, who have already ruined one franchise I love (Disney and Star Wars), I don't see a relationship between me and Doctor Who any more.
With that being said. It still pleases me to see the animations continue. I have high hopes for the range. I hope they're successful. I hope they're so successful, in fact, that we get original animations. Like Dreamland, but for Classic Who, or even older New Who.
Who wouldn't love more Nine and Rose?
But this is me wishing success on those creating the animation, not those in charge. I hope the animators get the budget they deserve, like you said.
Why not use Ian Levene's recreations of lost episodes?
not to my personal taste, but nice others like them!
I know most people compared the Toymaker animation to the TellTale games, but personally, I think it fits. The story is very imaginative and abstract, and I think the animation lends itself to that style perfectly. I get what the team were trying to do with the Web of Fear, but I feel they've learned their lesson there. The animations, in my opinion, should find a balance between what was originally broadcast (from what little we have) and the team's art style. Expound on what came before and make it feel fresh. Experiment and find the best way to convey the original story for a modern audience. That is what I hope they'll do with future reconstructions.
Love TellTale Games! Sam and Max and Back to the Future the Game are my go-to games from that company. And that's a great way to put it in terms of how the missing episode animations should be made. Having that balance between trying to stick with the original source material and expanding on it creatively. Animation is a art form after all and experimenting with it can lead to some pretty fantastic results.
this is absolute cope
I for one would totally be in favour of a Telltale style Doctor Who game though
@@TokuWaffle Me Too! In fact, the Adventure Games proved Doctor Who can work in the Point and Click Game format.
Another great video, Josh. Evil is my favourite as well, its really a good watch, with Faceless a close 2nd. Following Web & Galaxy, sorry these really put me off from future animations.
Faceless! I haven’t seen anyone rate that one so highly, love to see it get love
@JoshSnares I've always enjoyed Faceless and I found the lighting of the animation quite moody (IMO). I've also Fan Edited Evil to a 90min omnibus but also have the full eps as well as on my Plex server. Contemplating doing same for Faceless.
Not sure if I was me or not, but when I watched Underwater Menace, there was fringing happening around the character. On the main menu, you could see fringing around them a badly cut out png. I could see that in episode too. Also, between frames, sometimes I was seeing scan line, like it was interlaced or something. I have never before noticed that. It is possible it was due to me watching a UK blu ray on a region free player in the US. But again, I'd never noticed any glaring issues like this before. So, I going to guess its either the compositing, or, for some reason, it just didnt play right on my blu ray player? Either way, it was very distracting, and it took me out of the episode entirely, noticing the characters fringing and scan lining every so often.
Hmmm, I didn't notice it. You might be right though!
"If we want to make that change, we need to justify it." Great quote. I only wish that Chibnall and now RTD thought that way.
I don't care what the animation looks like I don't want to look at telesnaps
I'm a Web 3 defender lol... and I hope I'll like Celestial Toymaker too (I like the stuff they're doing with the Toymaker's realm, and hope they go all the way, doing stuff that just wasn't possible in the 60's)
SOMEONE has to like Web of Fear, and I'm happy people do! :)
@@JoshSnares Yea, I mean, I do _get_ the criticisms, and agree to some extent, but they're things that I can personally look past. Celestial Toymaker definitely looks to be an improvement. It's nice to have respectful disagreements about experiences of media, and I respect that you always have that upfront with your videos :)
While I don't mind the different styles of animations as much as other people, I do understand that some people like consistency. I think if the animations were done by one studio, under one main vision, direction, and with a increased budget, this wouldn't be an issue. Remember, the animations bounce a bit between companies, so you can't really get enough consistency between each production and animation.
To me, remembering some of the earlier releases (the original telesnap reconstruction of Underwater Menace, the original Power of the Daleks, etc), how much of this isn't the animation team(s), but is instead the powers that be (AKA the BBC)?
I still think the best approach to official animations, and to get the budget/audience is to treat them like their own series, broadcast on BBC channels, add to Iplayer like the normal series and treat them as a spinoff. Having them straight to DVD doesn't alert many fans that they are even being made, or easy to access without splashing out £20 to buy it. Also use the Evil/Macra approach, with animation style and closeness to the originals, anything after evil seems a little too far away from original design lol
I would like the Space Pirates or the Highlanders to be animated next, I know that they may not be a well liked episode and that we have had loads of Troughton episodes animated but then we can get a Season 6/4 Blue ray collection box set. I know we still need the Smugglers for Season 4 but there was that news of it being animated alongside the underwater menace if that is still happening considering the Celestial Toymaker is being animated next and not the Smugglers
Highlanders. Highlanders.
Woof! I haven't gotten the Underwater Menace up here in the US yet, but it looks like 70s Scooby Doo quality from those stills you've shown! 😂
Of course I would like to see CGI reconstructions based on the telesnaps and surviving footage. I would also like the Beeb to pay for bounty hunters to find the "collectors" who have the missing tapes. I am happy with whatever we get for me, it's better than nothing. Watching the Evil of the Daleks animation made me realize how relatively subdued Patrick Troughton's performance was in that story. I wonder if the director told him to tone it down a bit or if he was having a bad week or something.
I say this every time Josh and I hope you don’t get tired of hearing it but great job as always!
Great review vid👍🏻👌🏻😄👏🏻, I completely understand the profitability aspect 🤑 but, for myself, I still preffered the old Reign of Terror / Moonbase & Tenth Planet animations. Don't get me wrong, I 💕 the guys making the new animations, the large scale sets (although I do think they should keep the original as close as possible to surviving episodes & not be given Carte' Blanche or you get epic failures like the ugly/lazy Rill ship interior of Galaxy Four & Underwater Menace Sea Temple, but if no episides exist then they should be given Carte' Blanche) & I'll take anything just to see these wonderful (& sadly lost in 'time & space, literally) episodes reanimated from the beyond... BUT‼️ I still wish that the moody old animations such as The Invasion where upgraded / funded moreso as I think that, by now, they would be far superior. I didn't even bother buying the Web of Fear & sadly The Celestial Toymaker looks like something similar but regardless I shall still buy it.... 🤷🏻♂️ On a personal note... Please, please, please do a review on The Daleks in Colour when it's released later in February 2024 🙏🏻😄🙏🏻
The new approach on Underwater Menace looks like Hanna-Barbera, and that isn't good, but The Celestial Toymaker looks like a PS1 game. I really wish they just did them all in Evil of the Daleks style.
I didnt mind Underwater Menace, but those quibbles are valid. I do hope they improve the lighting for the next project.
I'll be really curious to see how Celestial Toymaker turns out. Ir looks miles and miles above Web of Fear thats for sure
You are such a pedantic, nit-picking overly critical geek, and this is why I love you,
omg you got me in the first half
hahaha sorry, I just REALLY love your stuff@@JoshSnares
It annoyed me they got Jamie's costume wrong- should have been the double tartan jobbie
There's always the option to listen to just the soundtrack like fans have been doing for years, so anything we get given is usually welcome for me, simply because it gives us a new release in the DVD/Blu-ray range, which has consistently been of very high quality regarding additional features.
100%
Another great video, thanks Josh. The Macra Terror and Menace animations made me reappraise my low opinion about both stories and I really enjoyed both of them, especially Menace. Still can’t see past those awful arms on Fury though, so disappointing and something very basic to get right in my most sought after re-release. Good points too about the lighting and scene composition in the better animations, but I did not notice them missing from Menace too much. Hope someone will do The Highlanders properly now.
Isn't the point of the interior/exterior Tardis doors that it's all super-advanced and so, therefore, magic? It just reminds of a UFO case where a driver and his passenger saw something different on the road. One saw the UFO. The other... saw a bus.
Josh - going slitely off topic but did you enjoy colourised Daleks? May be a video on your thoughts on colourising 60's Who. Seen some good some bad attempts myself.
Gonna have a video about it next week :)
Thank you Josh. Another great Video. Happy New Year by the way.
Great vid josh! I sorta hate the 3d animation of the celestial toymaker it’s putrid imo, I don’t think they should keep doing 3d until they get a larger budget
I enjoyed the animation of Celestial Toymaker that a fan did of the complete episode 1. It used computer animation, but was very engaging. I’m surprised they didn’t use him for this new release as it was presumably cheap, but very effective.
For me, I’m just glad we’re getting the animations. These have enabled me to rediscover Patrick Troughton’s Doctor. The only other stories I need to get are The Dominators, The Mind Robber, and The Krotons.
The War Games will take a while as the DVD is over $100 on Amazon and eBay.
The Highlanders, The Wheel in Space and The Space Pirates are the only stories that don’t have any animations at all. So I will look forward to seeing them should they come. Then I can have Patrick Troughton’s entire run, and enjoy it.
when while you rank all of Nyssa’s episodes?
the davison era is my least favourite, ngl. The stories aren't my jam, love the companions tho
You’re able to watch these?
It’s infuriating how hard it has gotten to get doctor who releases in australia
Every time we get a release in Aus/NZ, one second in eternity will have passed.
Babe I just import from the UK, I gave up with Australian releases years ago
Any recommendations for retailers to buy them from?@@JoshSnares
Animations mildly scare me man, it’s just constant uncanny valley, far too frightening. But I have picked up evil of the daleks because that’s one that didn’t look absolutely terrifying and actually rather lovely. Great video as always man!
Even though I enjoyed underwater menace quite a lot I feel it’s a definite step back compared to some of that team’s previous work. Your comments about the lack of lighting and shading really hits on a good portion on what is wrong with it. With just a couple of extra months work I’m sure it could have been avoided. Rob sadly not being brought back due to him falling out with one of the higher ups is unfortunate. Hopefully someone is able to smooth things over so he can come back in future. Sadly going by the lack of polish it also looks like the budget has been slashed. It looks a bit lower budget than others. Whether it’s down to the new funding model having less money or simply been allocated less money because it’s the underwater menace I’m not sure but if it’s the former it might be problematic going forward especially as the animations are only going to get harder once you get passed the likes of smugglers, savages,myth makers, wheel and space pirates.
The celestial toymaker I’m mixed on. The likenesses don’t look good at all. However the shot in the trailer with joey the clown trying to walk along the board really got my interest. Looks like they are going for a surreal reimagining approach. Considering how cheap and nasty looking the original looked I’m actually not against going mad with it and trying to make it more surreal and make the sets a bit more expensive. If they tried this on say the massacre it absolutely would not have worked but toymaker the surrealism kind of fits the story. As for the 3d style it looks better than web of fear but I need to see more of it than the 30 second trailer that we have seen. Im not against stories being done in 3d as I feel some stories may struggle to get done in 2d but I feel they have a long way to go before they get given the keys to do something more complex or difficult like highlanders.
I know some have said why didn’t they just get dinopuff but they were already well into production by the time his work came to the BBC’s attention. He also had zero professional experience (as good as his toymaker was it was still a fan thing and not professional) and he was also 17 and still at school at the time. Being realistic there was no chance they were hiring him at that time and even if they did he would not have been put in any sort of charge for him to influence the look and feel of it regardless how good his version was. Say what you will about about the people working on the animations especially the likes of Chloe greich who is overseeing the toymaker animation but they have had years of experience professionally before being placed in these positions of being in charge of these productions. He has a bright future. His meeting on the common is excellent and it offers professional experience to him and so that is at least a stepping stone to get noticed and hired by the bbc.
As for what I want going forward well the only thing I really want outside of some historical animations is the animations to have more time and money allocated to them. The animators are all mega talented however they are definitely not given enough time or compensated enough for their hard work. The unmovable strict deadlines makes their work suffer sometimes and affects quality of work. I know some have said be more like the originals but seeing as it’s a different medium and with the exclusion of the soundtrack it’s pretty much a new version I’m ok with deviating from what was originally there. What works in live action doesn’t necessary work in animation so sometimes changes are necessary. I’m also ok with them to carry on animating episodes that exist. It may seem a waste to us fans who have no use for them but to streamers and broadcasters who want a consistent viewing experience in a colour widescreen format it’s essential. It’s my understanding that without these streamers and broadcasters these releases are no longer viable so animating the whole thing is unfortunately necessary.
I'm not a lover of the Doctor Who animations, they always come across as Flash animations you'd see on Newgrounds in the early '00s.
And for the budget they're given nowadays, you could recreate episodes in Unreal 5 and they'd be pretty authentic to the original video.
The conventional animation used to do 10th Planet ep4,, The Moonbase, and The Invasion were the best. More recent releases have been very basic and nowhere aa good.
To be honest, I don't mind the animation as seen on the trailer of The Celestial Toymaker, it seems like they got most of the characters right (apart from Steven) this time around. It does seem rather stilted in movement at times, but it's alright. I will buy the animations still so I can have something that does somewhat resemble the episodes, the only one I haven't bought is the Web of Fear because I'm noping that animation. Telesnap is fine enough for me.
Well, in spite of less stellar animation lately, I'm just glad that these releases are still happening, especially since it seemed for a hot minute that we weren't getting any more. I don't want to say that I don't care about the quality of the animation but I'll take what I can get. I honestly don't know how they can improve this without a larger budget. But we must expect that the budget will most likely never increase by much. Still, uniformity in style would be nice(if the style is really cool) but seems unlikely. I'm not getting any younger, so I just want to be able to add all the remaining stories to my video collection while I can.
1:42 9:00 9:12 9:44 10:00 10:05 That Line Never Gets Old and it makes me laugh 😂😂😂
I watched the Season 4 animations on the Iplayer and I think they look good honestly. I like the style they go for, especially Macra and Faceless Enemies. The cartoony style they go for really fits the format and I like how the hair has more shape to it than Evil of Daleks. Sometimes I could tell that assets weren’t rendered in the highest of quality so my main request would be to try to keep everything in 4k without pixelating if possible. Also sometimes the more simple movements can be a little stiff like walking for example but that’s more so a nitpick than criticism.
I just like having the stories available to watch, really made me grow to love the second doctor a lot more thanks to actually having his stuff to watch (The reconstructions are unwatchable in my opinion) I’m really excited for the Highlanders whenever they get around to it.
so much happier to have them, in any state, than not. So much more accessible than telesnap recons or just the audio!
Great video buddy! I collect the animations - I'm an unashamed steelbook/Dr.Who animation collector fan! Don't always watch thrm though! 😂😂 wish they would do The Daleks Master Plan!
Great review vid 👍🏻😄👌🏻 thanks so much... I 💕 these reviews. Please, please, please do a review on The Daleks in Colour 🔴🔵 when it's released later in February 2024 🙏🏻😄🙏🏻 I would really appreciate your view not only on the wonderful colour inhanced version... 🔵🔴 but also the editorial cut to make the story 'speedier' & more 'quick' 💨
next week i have a video on Daleks in Colour :)
@@JoshSnares AWESOME‼️👌🏻👍🏻😄😂 I can't wait for your views on the COLOUR 🔴🔵, editing of it 🎞️🎞️🎞️ & your overall impressions... I'm stoked for that video 😂🎉🎊🙌🏻🎇🎆 can't wait 🍻😊
Abominable- think of it as “a bomb in a bull”
Michael Craze did have that quintessential boy (or should I say lad) next-door quality. I almost forget about him salivating over Frasier Hines' Jamie... _"Nothing beats a great pair of Leggs!"_
I was taken aback by how Ben was presented in _"The Power of The Daleks."_ They actually made him look older and mainly angry. 😲
I think even the weakest animations we've had are still worth it, they're still something and they're generally more accessible than the reconstructions. Of course that doesn't negate criticism though cause I'd still rather them be the best possible quality we can get from them. For example I absolutely agree that the big issue with the Celestial Toymaker is facial animation. But personally I don't think I'll ever be over them as long as there are still missing stories left to be animated.
agree 100%
i wish they had used the same animation style for the classic who ones they used on either scream of the shalka or the infinite quest featuring 10 and martha on a side note i want more doctor who media featuring the version of the doctor wfrom scream of the shalka i really enjoyed that doctor's attitude throughout i saw parts of 10's now your going to pay attitude and parts of 12's stubbornness
Reconstructions are the way to go. No missing scenes from missing episodes as the cleaning in the MACRA TERROR.
I wonder if certain stories could be recplicated using the telesnaps, run through some sort og AI thingamajig....
When I say the Trailer for “The Celestial Toymaker” I was expecting Clone Wars Season 7 levels of Animation, instead I got that Nightmare.
Saw* Not say
Personally wow I didn’t even notice how Steven looked in The Celestial Toymaker animation. Looks almost like a picture taken from the original Star Trek.
The animations do seem to be in a tricky spot right now. On one hand, I will be grateful to get any continuation of the range (especially with the period we briefly thought they were done). On the other, it does seem like for whatever reason (money, interest) the quality is a little lower for these last 2. I’m a little more okay with it for Toymaker and Menace, but it’s hard to imagine it would go down well with Marco, Myth Makers, or Dalek Masterplan. Big respect though to all those putting in so many hours!
I realised when watching the animation of The Macra Terror which everybody seems to think is top tier on IPlayer why I don't like these animations. It just looks so... empty.
I just can't get into them because of that. When I looked up the telesnaps it all became so clear, if they fixed the aspect ratio, thus putting all the characters closer together it wouldn't look that bad, I suppose they did this because having a smaller aspect ratio wasn't as profitable but it just looks so dull.
Another thing is they just need to add more action in the background instead of the characters standing still, why they don't do this makes more sense because of time and budgeting constraints but if they have the chance to add movement it'll be so much better.
Josh Snares time
Yeah baby!!!!
I watch them all in Black and White, so the lighting/atmosphere is less of a big issue for me (I think the spooky moments look better in black and white anyway) but I agree this is a misstep for the colour versions.