What? We've been pulling our 40 ft. 5th Wheel with a 3/4 ton F-250!?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 жов 2022
- So, yeah. We probably need a bigger truck. Even though our 2021 F-250 is spec'd almost exactly like an F-350, it legally shouldn't be pulling our 40 ft. 5th wheel. In this video, I try to explain what we're doing and why. Anyone else been in this boat? What did you do?
Drop your comments down below and let's start a discussion. Thanks for your support and care.
Products I use for filming:
DJI Pocket 2 Creator Combo: amzn.to/3gaTKX3
DJI Mini 2 Fly More Combo: amzn.to/3T4i0sh
Background music & sounds used under permission from Epidemic Sound:
www.epidemicsound.com/track/7...
www.epidemicsound.com/track/4...
www.epidemicsound.com/track/8...
www.epidemicsound.com/track/l...
www.epidemicsound.com/track/Y...
www.epidemicsound.com/track/o...
your sticker says it all. Change the trailer or the truck. DOT would love to talk to you lol
Personally, I don't pull anything that exceeds 85% of the truck's capacity. Lot's of people seem to want to avoid dually's, but I think you could easily justify upgrading to a DRW truck with your trailer. The difference in stability is night and day, no hitch weight concerns whatsoever, you have a safety factor in the event of a rear tire blowout (imagine that blowout in the curve of a mountain road at the bottom of a hill), and better braking. The question for me is not weather or not a truck "can" pull something, but how safe is my truck pulling the load. When nothing is going wrong, the truck is probably safe. What about when more than one thing is going wrong? Suppose you are in a 35mph crosswind and have to swerve and brake at the same time? You’re going to find out if you have enough truck the hard way
Tire pressure label in the door jam is recommended tire pressure. Number on tire is max pressure for maximum load.
You’re probably fine until your involved in an accident while towing your camper. Your fault or not if there’s lawyers involved you could be held liable then comes the civil suit especially after lawyers see this video.
We pull our 397TH “Big Mo” with a GMC Sierra 3500HD dually with the 8 foot bed. I got lucky and found a used one. I like the suggestion of just going with the 450 dually. Better to have more truck than what you need.
I'm not at all an expert, but we just bought a F350 Dually, King Ranch and love it. We had a 550 before and everyone told us it was the best truck ever. But it was loud and quirky. My husband loved it but I wanted comfort. I watched a lot of videos since I don't have a clue and wanted to participate in the next purchase. I think the information you shared here is amazing and I appreciate it! I hope it all works out great for you whether it's changing the rating on this one or scoring a good deal on another. Thank you for this informative video!
Sorry I'm just getting around to responding! Thank you! And you're welcome 🙂
Same conversation that comes up about my ‘91 F350 Dually. Im well within specs on GVW but back in the nineties there wasn’t a firm CGVWR put on specific trucks.
Door sticker for tires is just what ford recommends for best ride and not tripping the tpms sensors. Rating on tires is what tire manufacturer recommends for safe psi
My understanding is the rating on the tire is the maximum pressure you should put in it under any circumstances.
VERY informative for us newbies! Thank you for a thorough, concise, rapid video!!
Please don't follow his unsafe logic or reasoning. This is a very overloaded truck, trailer, and tires.
@@ZonaJim Thank you! I saw your comment (plus others) offering the same cautions. Again, I am a newly and open to learning and will look into this much deeper for my truck and 5th wheel
This is the first time I have watched one of your vlogs. While not giving you a permanent score, I wholeheartedly give you a provisional score of very good. I was very happy to hear that you never travel with more than few gallons of freshwater in your tank. I don't know about you, but I have encountered tremendous newbie resistance on limiting one's freshwater to 5-10😊 gallons while on the highway. Newbies always want to travel at 65 mph with 75 or 80 gallons of water in their tank. They always want to bring a stranger along to their funerals.
Thank you for tuning in. We're still new at UA-cam but aspire to get better and better. Yes, it became clear to me at the very least that we weren't going to bring lots of water along. Anyways, we sold both that RV and the truck and looking into what route to take next.
Don’t tow over your trucks capacities. You are leaving yourself open to huge liability
Your tires aren’t sufficient. You have 7600lbs on the rear axle and only 6900lbs of tire capacity. You have a total of 12640 lbs on the truck axles and a 10800gvw. Even a SRW F350 only has a 12,400gvw.
U never have too much truck!
We pull our Grand Design 337rls with a 2018 f250 gas truck. Been doing it for about 4 years now with no problems. Only problem I have found is refilling the truck on trips. Have to pull that camper through regular gas pumps.
Good to hear. Yeah, I think the diesel has that going for it. Can't imagine pulling a large camper through a regular gas station because of a gas truck. It's been nice to use the truck lanes, but I try not to get in their way.
BEAUTIFUL...VERY INFORMATIVE. GOOD JOB.
Thank you!
Definitely fine as long as your fine and comfortable
Bravo Sierra
Totally understandable great video informative. payload is king when towing a camper DOT is strict especially if in an accident. With campers always look at all the numbers. I too am driving an F250 waiting to spec build an appropriate F350 SRW with the 12,400 GVWR package or just jumping straight up to an F450 great all-around capability and incredible turning radius for a dually especially compared to a 350 Dually again great video
An F350 dually will have more payload than the F450 😀
Thank you! I appreciate your comment.
Just got my 22 F350 crew long bed a couple of weeks ago. Messing with the screens I hit on the tire pressure screen. Rear tires were 80 lbs, front were 65 lbs. Traded in a 2011 F250 and I don't think I ever put more than 65 lbs in those tires. We have a gravel drive and my grown son remarked how much smoother of a ride the 350 is. I say it's just because it's new. I ordered my truck back in late Jan and picked it up in mid Sept. I went with the F350 for just the reasons you were mentioning. We have a Grand Design Reflection that is about 40' but with just 3 slides. It is a bit lighter than your Solitude. But I wanted enough payload so I wouldn't be worried about it. I went with the 7..3 Godzilla and 4:30 gears. Pulled the trailer last week, just a short haul and it did fine. It's hilly here but no long pulls. I know it doesn't have the power of a powerstroke but I think it will work fine for me. And about 8k cheaper. Good luck finding another truck.
Thanks for your comment. Good to hear the 7.3 is doing fine for you. Agreed. I don't want to be worried about it anymore.
We have an F350 SRW Lariat. Its GVWR is 11,400. The F350 has an additional leaf spring and a beefier rear axle. Our door sticker says 3444 lbs of payload capacity. We added Timbrens to help squat and add some lateral stability. We tow an Alliance 310 RL which is 15000 GVWR. We are very close to payload sticker limit.
The F250 heavy tow has the same M275 axle and leaf pack. Its derated so it can pull a larger boat trailer and stay under 26k, which requires a Class A. RV's are exempt from weight limits.
@@FLseahawk I would imagine most dealerships do not stock the F250 that way. I did read that the F350 still has a larger block in the block. We added Timbrens to our F350. does not increase the payload bit does redice squat and gives a bit more lateral stability.
There are a few differences in your F250 Platinum Crew Cab vs F350 regular cab plain jane model, #1 there's a few hundred pounds; now the F350 SRW Crewcab also has a larger rear axle. They have some of the same gearing,however, the F250 has a 2" rear block and the F350's have a 4" rear block. Also the LWB(8 or 9') will increase your payload.
Thank you for these specs!
The 6.5 ft bed is the best compromise for those who do not want an 8 footer. The 5 ft short bed, unfortunately, doesn't really cut it on any size F Series. A F-350 or F-450 is not going to respond to a short bed any better than a F-150 or F-250 Super Duty. The popular rule o f thumb was always "Get your RV first then get your truck,so you know exactly what can pull it."
I was told at dealership that the rear axle was the same as my f250 and a f350 just blocks were different he told me I could do a dually conversion kit on my axle save money I was looking at a 39 ft camper I've pulled 16k lb of logs but not far like pulling a camper 4 hrs away it handled it fine
Rear end is not the same! F250 has the 10.5" Eaton and a F350 has a Dana80 which has bigger bearings and way more superior
That was a fantastic video. You are spot on. I've had enough of the door sticker Nazis myself.
Man I understand completely I just acquired a 2012 f250 and it specs out the same as a f350 srw. All I can figure is it was ordered that way specific. I freaking love it!
Hope you can find what your looking for when I was looking to upgrade from and 06 f250. The F450s were priced better than f250s, f350s.
I would say look at moving your weight around to help your pin weight I know you talked about having a follow vehicle put all you can in it and take it easy! We are suppose to drive the speed limit it's safer, but it seems many pay it no mind! Good of you to do your research and your trying to find a better solution best of luck!
Thank you! I appreciate that. We're definitely trying to move some weight around.
they also have a curt croswing 5th wheel so it is rated for 20000 lbs and 5000lbs pin weight should save you about 100lbs compared to regular 5th wheel
also it says your rear tires are 3750 lbs each at 80psi so total for both would be 7500lbs only , so you are over by 40lbs on each tire , you need the kanati armor hog 275 65 20 each tire rated a 4080lbs per tire so you would be good to about 8160 on rear axle
In many states, you must also be licensed to drive it, OVER 10000 LB TRAILER WEIGHT- NCDL MAY BE REQUIRED. PLEASE CHECK YOUR STATE.
I'm currently waiting for my f350 limited long bed, with a 12400 gvwr. Only 2000 more than your truck? But will make big difference. But you have s beautiful truck and will have no problems selling when ready. Good luck buddy.
Thanks! Limited eh? Nice...
also check your owners manual for the full combined weight both truck and 5thwheel
Great video. The weight ratings are very underrated. Sucks because many people are in the same boat as you, I know I was. Pulls great but insurance won’t be on your side in an accident.
Exactly
Weight ratings are as they are for a safety factor. Just because the truck has higher capacities than rated doesn't give you license to exceed them. They are rated lower for a reason, which is SAFETY!
Im AMAZED how many 3/4 ton guys out there are over payload weight! Especially with a diesel. Air bags dont increase payload Legally! For the price difference just buy a 1 Ton and save yourself the headache! I too believe in the 80% rule!
I have a smaller FW, and had a F350 SRW that was significantly overweight too. I switched to a dually.
Lot’s of folks tout the 7.3 Godzilla and it sounds great on paper, but if you are pulling a 40’ rig, try getting gas at a standard station … can be a harrowing experience, we love refueling at truck stops with our diesel truck, way easier. Plus you give up an exhaust brake for mountains. The safety of an exhaust brake in mountains is paramount imho.
We love our diesel! Yeah, we do the same thing at truck stops.
Some Flying J & Pilot have RV lanes off to the side of regular pumps. Not as nice as trucker lanes, but better than too tight with cars.
I own a similar truck... 2022 F-250 Lariat with max towing and payload package; I have 2745 payload on my yellow sticker; however, my 5th wheel is a Cougar 24RDS and is only 7400 lbs empty with an advertised empty hitch weight of about 1400 pounds. My trailer does not sag my rear-end in the least bit. The F-350 has a bigger block in the back to help it stay level with more hitch weight and slightly stiffer springs, but you are correct... same tires, same axles, same engine, same frame, same brakes, etc... what you left out is vehicle registration issues, that's the limiting factor on the payload sticker. Buy an F-350, add the bigger rear block and stiffer springs, adds PSI in the tires and you can register it for 11,000+ pounds. Bottom line though... your trailer should be pulled with a 1-ton truck, and as your video documented... you are aware of that fact. Safe travels.
Thanks for your comment. I hear ya.
Your tire is only able to give its max capacity when they are at the max pressure listed on the sidewall. The 60psi in the door jam is for when you are unloaded. At 60psi it rides better but will have a lower weight capacity because of sidewall flex. As the tire rolls, the sidewall flexes each time it comes around to the bottom. With less air pressure, it flexes more which causes it to get hotter which causes it to fail. I hope this makes sense. ------
when my wife and i bought our truck/trailer-several of the ole timers told me the same thing; you may be able to tow that weight but can you "stop it". Just as important...be careful.
FYI I do have a 2022 F250 the long bed , wanted the 48 gallon fuel tank, but I ordered with the high capacity towing package which bump the truck GCWR on diesel engine from 23,500 lbs to 30,300 lbs.
Wow! That's a huge jump!
I have a 2022 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax Sle with lots of option and ordered 20”. It’s max payload is 3400 pounds. It’s not a problem till it’s a problem if you get what I mean. Take care
Thanks! Yeah, I think I know what you mean.
The transmission shift points are different between 1 ton and 3/4. You are adding total tire combined capacity but your hitch puts more weight on rear axle so the cat scale can determine that by weighing the truck with the camper loaded, then weighing the truck alone, and subtracting the difference.
The cat scale says the drive axle on the truck has 7580lbs. So he’s over the tire’s capacity in the rear. Funny how he just breezed by the tire argument like it wasn’t an issue, when it 100% is an issue clearly shown in his own car scale readings!
Going through the same thing right now, learning what all the capacities are. My situation is a 2021 2500 HD short bed with camper/snow plow prep Z71 package, diesel/Allison .What I learned through research is GVWR 11350 - Curb weight of 8033 = 3317 max payload . That payload figure is what your limit is when you add hitch weight, people weight , fifth wheel weight installed in your truck and anything else in your truck. My hitch weight is 2150 unloaded with a UVW of 11669 lb. So after you subtract 2150 from max payload remaining is 1167 lb to cover added hitch , people, fuel etc. It adds up real quick. Also the ratio of hitch weight unloaded weight of trailer is approx 18% on my camper which means if your trailer is loaded to 140000 you have to figure new hitch weight using that 18% ratio.This example it would be 2520 not 2150. So you have to start the math all over and only have about 800 lbs left. seems your way over weight. Do a truck build on Fords site and you can come up with new specs and weights than compare. Think on a chevy its about 800lbs more max payload
Thank you for this great breakdown. Calculations like this need to somehow be made more available and accessible for everyone to easily figure out.
@@gotogethervlog Perhaps those breakdowns do need to be more available and accessible. Or maybe people like you should know what the f*^# you're talking about before posting videos about things you don't know about.
You can give all the disclaimers you want, but your misinformation is going to get someone killed. It might be you and your family, or some innocent people just driving down the road.
If I were you, I'd pull this video off UA-cam asap.
That's not the correct way to find payload...
Well Badger can you enlighten us on how you figure payload
@garyrex4429 simple...look at your door tag, it tells you the MAX payload of your vehicle including people, stuff, hitch, etc. Deduct those numbers from your payload capacity, and thats the maximum pin weight. If your 5th wheel weighs 12k pounds GVWR, then your pin weight is 1800 to 2160 pounds(15% to 18%).
You should already know this number! Open the damn door of your truck and read it!
Also, dont forget when a manufacturer comes up with that number its for one person, 1/4 of fuel and nothing else in the vehicle.
This hitch is in the same spot in relation to the rear axle in both long and short beds. Get some air bags to help with the sag.
I think the springs may be different. It's not always as easy as counting the leafs. The could also be different thicknesses.
My 99 f350 has over half a million miles and will easily tow anything I put behind it.
When you get your new truck, get a long bed. No point in having a 1 ton truck that can't hold a single sheet of plywood...
Agreed! Long bed all the way.
Airbags don’t increase the max cargo capacity and don’t increase the integrity/ strength of the truck frame. With a 2690 lb cargo limit this 5th wheel is over the cargo limit before you add passengers, hitch and junk you usually carry in your vehicle. Most sane people would say never go over 75% of max cargo or max trailering rating.
It's the over all wight of the truck that sets the payload
Good video, everybody has comments about Towing , the worst ones are all the f150 guys that have the heavy tow package and are dead certain that they can tow a half ton rated fifth wheel or some crazy extremely long travel trailer just because the numbers fall just barely Within capacity. We Had a 2019 F250 with the higher GVW package and camper package and snow plow package which increased the spring rate. However our 2020 F-350 with the same higher gvw package and camper package and snow plow package gave us even bigger Springs. Both of our trucks were gassers. Our current 2020 F-350 has a 4,000 lb payload we pull our 12,100 pound 36 ft fifth wheel with no issues of course with the gas engine and actually can do up to 15,000 lb. Unless you park your truck next to a comparable same year F350 and actually measure not only leaf spring stack but also the length of each leaf spring and spring Arch , I don't think there's really any way of telling. I find it hard to believe that a manufacturer is going to make two identical trucks and just put different badges on them. Can you imagine spending the extra money for an F-350 only to have your friend pull up next to you with an F-250 and have the exact same suspension/axle setup. How many disgruntled F-350 owners you think that would be complaining to Ford wanting an explanation why they're bigger truck has F250 suspension on it. I know on the old body styles that the 10-in rear ends looked identical between the F350 and an F250 yet some of them had full floater style bearings. I don't know if they're still doing that, but I doubt it. Like you said, the issue is the legality part of things. You can continue to tow I'm sure hundreds of miles with no issues but it just takes once. Just like people driving without insurance for thousands of miles until that one time. And one of the things that everybody forgets is that it has nothing to do with the rear squat.. if a vehicle can handle the load it's going by the numbers obviously and more importantly if you're going to look at a vehicle and deem it safe visually, it's all about how much weight has come off that front end. Remember, the front end does 80% of the braking and 100% of the steering so the last thing you want to do is remove weight off of that front contact patch that meets the ground. By the way, the truck door tag PSI for tires are always what you're supposed to go by. Those tires are made for all kinds of different trucks out there in your case only Ford has deemed what PSI those tires are to be run at on your truck. It's not a discrepancy all manufacturers do it. Rarely does what the door tag say match what the tire says.
wow...long winded much lol
Thanks for your comment! Yeah it's like the parts seem to be the same, except the 350 uses steel bolts and the 250 has nickel ones. Or something like that.
@@CozyQueenAdventures stick with the quick start guide... I'll go with the full manual every time..
@@Foxboss9 nothing wrong with it, just a lot of info in one comment
I have a 2020 F-350 SRW with 6.2 3.73 gears. My friend has a 2021 F250 6.7 with 3.31 gears. My payload is about 1500 lbs more than his. He has a thicker Dana axle, I have a Sterling. Everything else is identical, same number of leafs, overload spring. We parked the two trucks next to each other to try to figure out what the difference was; only that he has a heavier axle.
The diesel motor and all the Def stuff weighs more, which takes away from payload.
The panoramic sunroof in the Platinum weighs a lot and takes away from payload.
You don’t have the leaf spring package as the 350. The 350 has another set of leafs. My 350 SRW has another 1000lbs of payload capacity
I just learned how absolutely clueless I am about stuff like this 😅😂 I know you know what you are doing. Good thing you have a knack for research. Y’all be safe out there ❤️
Thank you! Lol.
@@gotogethervlog LOL is right! You know almost NOTHING about what you speak of. Your 250 is upgraded to the specs of a standard 350. The Ford tire pressure is what Ford recommends, the Michelin tire pressure is what the tire can handle without deforming and/or exploding.
I doubt you're an engineer (you train set doesn't count), so stop acting as though you know more than they do.
Actually, please stop towing all together before you get someone KILLED!
F-350’s suspension is specially tuned for recreational and commercial towing; it has a tight rear spring and a reinforced midsection, which makes it ideal for towing. May or may not work for Ford. Suspension and brakes are a big difference between the two
I have seen things that disprove what you said. F250 max tow package or tremor diesel is identical to a f350. Frame Brakes rear end tire and wheels. On ford's it changes at the 450.
@@Metal_Stacking if they are identical why are towing specs different?🤔
@@pulvermacher80 only the sticker in door jam and badge that says 250 vs 350. I went with 350 just for the legal gvwr rating on sticker.
@@pulvermacher80 I would tell you stop by a dealer and look unfortunately ford will not stock dealers anymore.
@@pulvermacher80 so you can tow a higher GVWR boat trailer and stay under 26k GCWR. Rv's are exempted from this.
well said when you upgrade truck go dually and long bed thats a big boy back there!
Thanks! Yeah, definitely.
I have a similar situation and have been researching the F250 Diesel for fifth wheel pulling for some time now. I have a 2017 F250 Lariat short-bed and a 260RD Reflection 150 but want to go a bit bigger but that requires a more capable truck. Problem is the trucks' towing capacities are less than the unit you have, so a Solitude is not possible. Problem 1: The Super Duties were updated in 2020 with a better engine and towing capacity but does your F250 have the Super High Capacity Trailer Tow package (Option 535). If yes, that good and it gives you lots of capacity for the Maximum Trailer weight. Problem 2: My 2017 only has 1932 pounds (per my door sticker) of "Payload Capacity" and that ends up being the major issue with a 250 short bed.. As a full-time RVer, I needed about 4000# of payload capacity for the next potential fifth wheel and that only comes from a long bed and an F350. The F350 has the high capacity trailer towing by default, so Problem 1 is fixed and then for for Problem 2, I recommend the 8 foot box. The short beds just don't have the payload capacity you need. Unfortunately you need to look at the door sticker for payload capacity on any F350 you consider as they are all unique and you can't look it up online (the Ford spec only shows for a regular cab and gas engine ( I called Ford and their engineers didn't even know how much weight going to a Platinum detracts from what they publish...pretty sad") . I am in the process of purchasing a 2022 F350 Crew Cab, Platinum with an 8 foot box that is planned to be picked up on Friday. It has 3859 # capacity. There is basically no inventory for 2022 out there and forget about getting a deal. 2023s are likely mid next year at best. I have looked pretty much up and down the eastern seaboard via the ford search which is very tedious. I still use a Reflection 150 which is much lighter than you Solitude, but with the new truck, I can begin to work towards a slightly larger fifth wheel. Grand Design Solitude or perhaps a Brinkley. Lastly, if you have other questions, let me know. I don't really put up RV videos but it may be on my list. Another UA-camr, "Travels with Delaney" just upgraded his truck and while it's a lot lighter trailer, his methodology is spot on and worth watching. If I did a video, I'd basically copy his method. Good luck! I can send you an email, if you have questions.
Hi! Thank you for your comment! Yes, ours has the max trailer tow package and higher GVWR package. I hear ya. I was looking for a while for the right truck but haven't found the value I'm looking for. We might reduce the RV size in order to keep our truck because we like it and already own it. Dunno yet. We'll see.
@@gotogethervlog best of luck
could you not get the truck re rated to reflect the tires and up graded suspension package ? I know in NZ and Australia you can simply get an engineer to inspect the vehicle for any upgrades that reflect bigger GVWR I have a 2021 F250 here in NZ the sad part here is we have a cut off at 6000KG on CVCWR before we move up to a different weight known as heavy ridged and extra costs so most RVs are around 7000bls
If you think your door jamb sticker tire pressure is telling you the max tire pressure of your tires, you’ve got lots to learn about trucks and tires. That sticker just tells you what the engineers decide for best handling, wear, comfort etc. , it could be the same as max psi but many times is not.
im pulling a 5th wheel with a 1500 v6. just around town dont go over 30 mph. livin on the street off grid. its fine
Ok so I’m a weight enforcement/commercial vehicle Trooper for a very large state agency. The misconception is when dealing fifth wheels and 3/4 ton trucks is some how we’re going to look at your truck GVWR and say you can only carry this much. That’s not true. In you’re configuration you’re really just limited by tire rating. Other than that you’re the same as a dually. So……tire rating by federal standards is done per tire….tire rating in my state is by axle because you are not a commercial vehicle. You’re tire rating has you at 6900lbs on the rear axle. Your weight ticket has you at 7580. So you’re over tire rating. It’s not how many tires you have in the road way. Each individual tire experiences individual weight standards.
Thanks for this great comment.
Thanks for this! I was thinking the tires would be the issue. The most likely thing to occur when pulling an RV is a tire blowout and those can be absolutely devastating .
Exactly, and that is why I am getting four 245/70/19.5" wheels & tires SRW since the sticker and tire rating is getting too close in my situation.
I've had 12 ton In the bed of my 2017 super duty won't even pull the overload down😅
I think you’re confused about the weights, as most everyone is. For instance, regarding the tire limits. Each tire is rated for 3,450lb, that’s a max of 6,900lb. You’re at 7,580lb on the rear axle, well over the tire limit. That’s not a safe setup at all.
Thanks for your comment! Yes, it all tends to be more confusing than it should be. Even the sales people at dealerships don't get it (or don't want you to get it).
i did a lot of research and the rear axle is the same for 1500 and 2500. at approx 7800 lbs. i have a 1500 with a v6 and its fine but i dont go over 30 mph city driving only.
Our 2022 KZ Durango Gold is 12,930 unloaded with a max GVWR of 16,000. She's 42.5 feet long. The BIGGEST concern for us, was handling. A Dully WILL handle the passing, and side winds better due to the extra 2 wheels in the rear. We're full timers, my wife and I also have 3 dogs in crates in the back seat. I want safety, which is a priority both for us and any jackass who likes pulling in front of us. I also put disk brakes on our 5th wheel for even more added safety. Plus, we ordered out truck with 2x4, not 4x4. 2x4 gives you more hauling and towing capacity.
Rule of thumb is get a truck bigger then you think you need.
Thank you for your comment!
I'm just curious. In your research, did you actually compare the spring packs between the F250 & F350? Do they have the same number of leaves? Do they both have an overload spring and is it the same? Are the leaves in the pack the same length, thickness, etc.? What about the axle tube, is it the same diameter? I know there have been several videos made about the F250 Tremor vs an F350 rear suspension, but they seem to draw the same conclusion: there is a difference between the F250 and the F350 non-Tremor models.
That depends greatly on srw trucks. The rear packs are not all the same it depends on the packages
Yes, we have the same leaf springs and axle diameter. The only thing I'm not sure of is the thickness of the frame.
Bumper pull towing capacity versus fifth wheel setup towing capacity has completely different ratings. You would be overweight if it was on
your bumper but all good with fifth wheel setup👍
I tow a 13,500 42’ fifth with a 2010 2500HD gas 6.0 no problem and the camper needs no help from the truck to stop it other than 12 volts DC for camper brakes. If I get stopped I keep a copy of my trucks towing capacity with fifth wheel setup over axle since the stickers in truck show capacity for a bumper towing capacity.
Nice!
If I’m seeing correctly you have the short bed. So I was wondering if you are using a sliding hitch or if you found out it was not needed.
It is the slider in there, but we've never had to use it - even with a huge 5th wheel like this.
The F350 had 2 more leafs in the rear suspension which is why they don’t sag like your trailer
Did you ever compare the weight of the f350 vs the f250 truck by themselves or the wheel base? Just these values can make towing a lot safer if the tow vehicle is a bit heavier or longer.
They are relatively the same truck. I own a 16 f350, and a 17 f250. And have owned several superduty trucks 04, 05, 06, 11, 13, 16, and a 17
Yeah, I'm looking at getting something both heavier and longer.
I have the same issue also and from what I've researched only thing I've came up with is basically the same as you.. I do know that FoMoCo "says" the leaf springs are thicker or beefier on the F350 along with the 4.10 to 4.30 axle ratio (srw or drw) which kinda makes a difference I as im sure you know on the 3.73,4.10 and 4.30s axle gear ratios just makes the drive shaft spin faster or slower depending plus a beefier axle like the Dana which I believe for 2023 they're putting the Dana axles on the front now with the high output 6.7 Powerstroke which 1,200 pound/feet of tourque and 500hp is absolutely insane and useless on a F250 6.7 or even F350 SRW as thats what most tractor trailers are rated at with 15 liter inline 6 monsters but hey to each his own but point being Ford has told me there are alot of very small differences in the actual leaf springs,front springs,heavier duty axles on the truck with higher gear ratios which no two trucks have the same cargo capacity I believe they said also I mean they can be a pound or two off but suspension,brakes and gear ratio are actually the only differences and yes they can make a world of difference but really we're paying for a SuperDuty truck and in 2019 the gooseneck rating for a platinum with 6.7 Powerstroke 3.55s gear ratio is supposedly 18,000 pounds so I think you'd be fine physically its just the lovely racquet system we all live with (if you think about anything and everything in our great nation these days) you would just have to pay more for a 350/3500 Heavy-duty/SuperDuty for the 3 things mentioned but it's only a couple thousand dollars truly for a great life style which also protects you and your family from the legal aspect not to mention what it could cost you financially,emotionally and possibly physically if something were to happen completely out of your control or not even your fault which obviously you fully understand but to me it's just not worth the millions of dollars possible liability plus if someone were to get hurt God forbid I know it would haunt me the rest of my life I'd I didn't do everything in my power just for a little sticker that the government says ok you're a good person I mean seriously in the 1990s we towed over weight by 5,000 or more pounds sometimes and never heard or seen anything about it but look at the shape everything is in not to be negative which apologies if seem that way..
@@rethergriffin2122we ordered a 2023 In Jan with long bed to avoid slider hitch and generally get a bigger bed for other stuff. Ford slammed the door on anything over and XLT. Refunded us our deposit. So we just started searching and finally found a 2022 sitting on our local dealership lot. It was Lariat Ultimate with 6.7ft bed, but had the towing package and beefier suspension etc. so we snatched it up. Come to pass, it was a lot cheaper than waiting for a 2024. Like $20k cheaper. We plan to buy the smaller Solitude or a Paradigm. Concern is the roof material primarily. We plan to upgrade the axles to 8k and get disc brakes. Those will add weight so it’s a trade off. It’s just two of us, no dog currently.
@longgone2023 sounds like ya'll have great taste in coaches and trucks! My wife and I are looking at a 324MBS Solitude while the buying power is kinda in the buyers hands buy yes beautiful coaches. We'll probably just upgrade to a F350 7.3 gasser 4.10 ratio 10 speed long bed Crewcab as that is plenty of pulling power and carrying capacity. Yes diesel is very nice especially the Powerstroke Diesel which has never had a lack of power issue by far and im the 2019 6.7 but with these new 10 speed transmissions and big gas tank option plus you'll average around 9-10mpg same as Diesel for me anyway hauling around 11,000 pounds currently (also depending on weather and terrain) is plenty for me so I figure 7.3 gasser with no worries of CP4.2 issues (which SS Motorsports has a new pump out but im not spending $2,000 on it when cummins and Duramax both recalled the CP4.2 for free back to the CP3 so Ford should do the same with this pump but good luck as they're all profit) and one turbo pipe that wouldn't be good on the Alaskan Highway etc.. Happy trails and maybe run across each other one day.. im going to go with cummins high output aisin transmission dually nothing newer than 2019 with quality issues these days now that I think about it.. anything over 2020 with any of big 3 I hear are having quality and dependability issue's.. who know's these days..
I have a 2021 F-250 7.3 2900# payload, to keep it legal I have been looking at a max loaded weight of around 13,000 pounds. My research is that most of the components are the same but there is an added leaf spring in the 350's that adds that 1000 pounds of payload to the cost of a harsher ride. The leaf spring is an easy swap or add on and if I were towing that rig I would probably look into that as aa stopgap till you get a new truck.
Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely look into that!
You can't just add leaf springs to make it a f350 legally all goes by what's in the door
You can just get 350 suspension and have Ford certify it 350 which shouldn't be much as the drive trains are exactly the same 250-450 except ratio. 3.31,3.55,3.73 which don't think they do diesel with 3.73 anymore,4.10,4.30 etc..
Payload, Payload, Payload. period.
I have 2015 Ram, 6 4L Hemi, 4:10 axle ratio.
Payload 3200 lbs
Pulling a 42ft Forest River Sabre , 11,400 dry weight. Tongue weight 2100lbs
I personally never would have paired your camper and truck together.
Be safe out there
The f350s use a heavier duty dana 310 axle vs the sterling. There is a high capacity f250 but they use the f350 heavier duty axle
In the same boat !
Glad we're not alone!
there is a tire called KANATI ARMOR HOG ATX LT 275 65 20 same size as your stock tire but it rated at 4080 lbs at 95 psi
so you will have 8160 lbs axle capacity
@@christianrenteria2792no you wont
Big Truck big Rv would have a stroke watching this video. You are way over on your pay load rating. I'm sure you can feel that 5th wheel pushing that truck around,especially going down a steep grade.
😂😂🤣🤣 - Ain't that right?!
LOL!! Yeah, I was hoping he'd see this video. I honestly haven't noticed it pushing us around but It does get a little slower at braking on declines. That's why I felt comfortable making this video; because I couldn't believe it was so outmatched. But yeah, we're gonna do something about it.
I towed a 16k outrage and trailer across the US through Flagstaff and back, it dragged that thing around like it was a dinghy. Cat scale said close to 25k, almost Class A land.
Sow aht I was told is that if you are towing and get into a accidents and your truck and trailer shouldn't have been rated to tow what you are doing off what is on the dealers site and specs then your insurance can drop you and not cover the accident or drop coverage altogether on your setup. Does anyone know this is ture or not? I know the numbers and parts might line up but you could for sure have issues down the road.
Looking for our first rv. We have a 2021 f250 lariat diesel 6.7 powerstroke with payload of 2436. We were wanting a 5th wheel over a tt but not sure if it's possible. It just be a cpls and two dogs wkend/vacation trailer. How do we figure max gvwr of a trailer we can purchase to safely travel in? We are not looking on upgrading our truck.
The tt/5er gvwr is on the label usually near propane tanks. Pick ur brand (Jayco, GD, etc) look at the models & they'll list the GVWR.
I don’t think you can be ticked for that, the truck is still able to pull that amount of weight. I don’t think that dot would care if your trailer is putting too much weight on your truck
I have a 2022 f-350 SRW long bed with a 7.3 gas the payload on it is 4126 #
???
That's a great payload!
I see some F250 trucks are 4x4 and others (like yours) is Fx4. Does this matter when towing?
Get a f450 - bigger brakes / much smaller turning diameter/ 48 gallon tank / truck tires.
whats that price... 130k ??
@@jakeMTSU I bought mine in 2018. F250 and F350 use LT tires, F450 has the same tire type as a semi - 19.5" rims. They can be hard to find. Good luck.
Good video and analysis. Regarding truck availability (not to mention expense)..... I now have a Home Base and between the cost of diesel and this past summer's heat everywhere, I decided to stay where I was in the Home Base. The trailer hasn't moved for nearly a year, so I was thinking of downsizing from my (2016) dually and (2020) 42' Sandpiper. I can probably get what I paid... for both. There's plenty of availability of the pull-trailer that I was considering. But getting a truck?? Even "just" an F-150?? I'll probably simply stick with what I've got even though it's now more than what I need and that dually is rattling my fillings loose.
You seem very aware of your situation and are being sensible. That's a thousand per cent better than those who look at only one set of numbers then proclaim their Datsun 620 to be a 'towing machine'. If I were in your shoes, I'd ride out the truck availability problem as well.
Thanks, yeah at this point I'd almost rather get a smaller camper than a bigger truck. It'd be way easier. More of them available and with discounts. Trucks... not so much.
That all sounds fine on UA-cam but not in court.
I didn't hear but did you confirm on scales? Some ppl get up in arms assuming they trailer is maxed out which is something you can definitely control.
Personally I don't think you're unsafe: new, well maintained vehicle, prudent safe driving. But yeah, any accident and you're screwed because you're technically over. My understanding is these limits are based on pretty extreme cases (environment, road) but unfortunately there's only one value that goes on that sticker...
Exactly! Thanks for your comment. We thankfully never had any trouble.
The dealer is only trying to sell rvs
That's for sure
I would be inclined to go to Ford and request that the vehicle be re-certified, based on your analysis of the suspense, powertrain parallel to the F350. What trips the trigger is the discrepancy between the sticker and the rating on the tires.
As you say, these differences bring you within 200 lbs of being legal and nobody is writing tickets for 200 lbs.
There is no need to consider re-certification and there is NO discrepancy with the tire PSI specs.
Mr. GoTo has an F250 upgraded to a standard or LOWEST CAPACITY F350. As for the tires, Ford is recommending the tire pressure as shown on the door sticker. Michelin is posting the MAXIMUM PSI the tire is allowed to be inflated to without deforming and/or exploding.
Something not adding up ?2022 platinum there no way the curb weight is near 9k . The max specified curb IS no more 7500 . Most are 6700 or less . The bed payload should be at least 3300 min. Should be more .
VERY NICE video ! I TOTALLY agree with you on everything! I've got a lot of experience with things like this, and I'm not going into it here, but you'll be fine! I've got the same pickup, and will be getting a similar fifth wheel so I've just gotta add that extra overload leaf spring like you've got to equal the srw F-350. Everything else is the same IMO too! Be safe !
Thanks! You too!
The frames are different between 250 and 350
nope
Someone else mentioned this as well. I'm gonna look into it.
Nope
You are incorrect on tire load capacity. Your rear axle gawr is 6800 lbs by max tire load. Your scale shows 7580 lbs rear axle weight. That means you are overloaded by 780 lbs on the rear tires and 1840 lbs over gvwr. You are way overloaded. . I love the argument that a F250 with the 10800 gvwr package is a F350. Well F350 has a higher gvwr. Even with a F350 11500 lb gvwr you would still be borderline over loaded. I towed my 13500 lb fifth wheel with a ram 3500 mega cab are. It was 400 lbs under rear gawr and 100 lbs over gvwr and 100 lbs under gvwr. It pulled ok until I got pushed through a intersection in a emergency stop and pushed around in crossed winds moved up to a F350 dually. Pulls great. A very comfortable tow. That's what you need for a 16500 lb gvwr camper
Thank you for the advice. I hear ya. I need to try out the dually.
I pull 16000 gvrw with a platinum 250 6.7. Bag it stop the squat. Keep the brake pads on your truck no more than 75000 miles before replacing shocks same schedule. Do your routine maintenance religiously. Have your front end inspected and replace everything worn at 100 to 125000 miles. Slow and easy and your rig can last you a long long time and do it safely. I have a 2015 and have been amazed at how well it works. Get the auto adjust bagging system you will love it game changer. Will also slow those COURTESY inspections on the side of the road. Happy miles to you
Thank you! It's great to hear this perspective!!
Possibly the difference is in the brakes/rear and or the wheel specs ( not the tires). Like previous comment it’s great you have a knack for research.
Thanks!
F250 with max tow package or tremor package is supposedly identical to a f350 except the sticker. F250 gvwr 10800 limit f350 gvwr 11500 limit. But to be legal he needs a f350 long box or dually. F350 long bed srw platinum would still end up over payload after 3700 pin weight passengers and anything else in cab.
Anyone knowingly towing overloaded is really "out on a limb". Your insurance carrier may decline to cover you should you be in an accident. If you don't want to get a DRW, you should give some thought to having a personal liability policy that exceeds your net worth.
Timbren's or air bags don't increase payload. They will level your truck and it may handle better but in no way do they help from a legal standpoint.
I have an 03 Ram 2500 SLT, Cummins 5.9, 6 speed manual transmission, regular cab, long bed, SRW / 2WD. I have spent many days and countless hours researching this subject, but where Ram 2500 HD vs 3500 HD is concerned. And I have discovered that the ONLY difference between the 03 2500 HD and 3500 HD SRW was the inclusion of overload springs on the 3500 HD... Literally EVERYTHING else is exactly the same. And this is true between the 2500 HD and 3500 HD going all the way through both 3rd and 4th gen models, all the way up to 2018, excepting of course the difference in engine and transmissions. Even the 5th gen trucks after 2018 all have the same rear axles, though at some point they started putting coil springs on many of their 2500s and 3500's instead of leaf springs, which when it comes to towing is actually a downgrade, all things considered. If you do not believe me, then just read the whole WIKI article of the evolution of the Ram line of heavy duty trucks. Regardless of the fact that the 2500s and 3500s SWD trucks are essentially the exact same truck insofar as the HD trim models are concerned, my 03 sticker says the GVWR is only 9000 lbs, while the 3500 HD of the same year is 9900 lbs. And later model trucks have even more payload for one reason or another, despite there being almost no difference between the older and newer trucks beside engines and some discrepancy in suspensions. Now I KNOW my 5.9 Cummins can easily pull the largest trailers out there, especially the high output version like the one I have. And I KNOW the transmission is more or less capable so long as it is equipped with a transmission cooler, and especially if it has been built out and bulletproofed. So I came to the conclusion that the ONLY thing my 2500 HD needed was a suspension upfit in order to make it every bit as capable of towing heaving loads as it's various 3500 HD counterparts, DRW trucks excluded for obvious reasons. And that is why I decided that I would simply completely overhaul my trucks suspension, adding 6000 lbs "SUPERSPRING" helper leafs, an HD sway bar and the heaviest duty sumo springs available to the rear axle, while adding new HD coils and sumo springs to the front axle, and new HD shocks all the way around. I also went so far as to add fast coolers to the tranny, a tire pressure monitor with sensors, and an exhaust brake into the mix as well. I am now more than confident that my 2500 HD is even more capable of towing heavy loads than ANY factory equipped 3500 HD SRW out there to date. Now maybe I am missing something, but I dont think I am. And I would gladly hear any challenges to my understanding. That being said, I am now also more or less convinced that, generally speaking, the door stickers on the heavy duty trucks are basically just smoke and mirrors in order to meet government regulations, and do not in any way accurately portray what these trucks are really capable of when it comes to towing, especially when upfiitted with aftermarket suspensions and towing mods. CHEERS!
I know that the F-250 tremors are de-rated F-350's so it would make sense that your truck is likely also a de-rated F-350.
Thanks!
For starters the axles in the f250 and f350 are different.
My payload capacity says 4391, it’s a 2022 F-350 7.3 gas SWR, my camper weighs 2500 full. I’m all set.
2500 lbs trailer? What is that 18ft.
17ft
Buy the F450 dually and never look back. The ride of the F450 with the trailer on it will tell you all you need to know.
I'll check it out.
I look at it as the F-450 is a small commercial truck whereas the F-350 is a large pick up truck. One example of the differences are the F350 has zero grease fittings, the F450 has 19 grease fittings. The F450’s and up are commercial trucks that are meant to last as long as possible. Mostly being sold to businesses into a fleet. The owners want to get every mile they can out of them. Where as an F350 is more often sold to a private citizen. You want to talk leaf springs, take a look at the F450 chassis cab. I think the spring pack has 13 leaves in it not 100% sure on this but it’s huge compared to the 450 pick up truck. The chassis cabs are designed to have a permanent heavy load sitting on top of those springs. Such services as ambulance, fire trucks, tow trucks, etc.… The 450 chassis cab frame rails are closer together than the 450 pick up truck. The big differences start behind the cab. From the back wall of the cab forward the 350 and 450 are pretty close to the same aft of the cab is where all the big differences come into play such as springs and frame rails. The GVW’s-GCVW’s are all political. Truck builders have to adhere to countless regulations that I know little about. I do know keeping GVW’s as low as possible is good for the company. We now know what these trucks can really tow. The new GVW’s and GCVW’s being 14K for the truck and as high as 40K for the trailer. Those numbers are for the 2023 F-450 with the new H.O. diesel! The numbers on the new diesel are 500 HP 1300 FTLBS Torque. Ouch!
The tire pressure on the door sticker has nothing to do with the tires rated capacity. It's Fords recommended pressure in relation to your cargo capacity. Different max. cargo capacities require different pressures for proper tire life and wear qualities. Overweight is overweight regardless of any add on springs, airbags etc. What is on the door sticker is all that legally counts. We were at a campground once and saw someone pulling a 38' 5th wheel with a F150, he said it pulled fine, but that doesn't make it right.
I got a 2024 ram 3500 drw high output 22k under msrp. F250's cost more than it. What is the point in being a "probably capable enough", verus being guaranteed capable enough? Especially when we're talking at the same price. Or even less!
Best to go F450 dually. Much safer, you'll always pull below rated specs by a good margin.
Just statically sitting your pin weight is over your manufacturer’s cargo capacity. Now add 2 adults, your 5th wheel hitch, stuff you put into your truck. Yikes! Perhaps you should have a defense attorney on retainer. Most people would say never go over 75% of manufacturer’s max ratings.
Thanks for your comment. I totally get it - we've made some big changes. More videos coming soon.
You don't have the same leaf spring pack
It's not a 350 no matter what you try convincing yourself. My srw 350 has a payload over 4k.
That's a great payload.
Your not driving a f350 for exact spec differences between the two I suggest powerstroke with Arod. He answers his emails with help with anything powerstroke and has a team of ford techs that help people. That being said I agree the trucks can handle more than what some sticker says. But legally i wouldn't want to be liable. I drive a SRW f350 long bed.
Thanks, this is a great comment.
I did major research on this. Spoke to a lawyer, looked at both Chevy 2500 diesel and 3500 diesel (SRW).Only difference is an extra leaf on suspension, steel rims and a heavier rated tire. (On a Chevy. Not sure on Ford or Dodge.) If you modify your 2500 diesel, you void what the factory door sticker says. (GVWR on door jamb may no longer apply ) JUST REMEMBER, YOUR WARRANTY MAY BE VOIDED)
Once you change The vehicle from factory OEM specs everything changes. I added air lift and bigger tires and rims to my 2500 diesel 2019 Chevy Silverado it handles great and has plenty of towing ability. (Currently towing a 42’ 5th wheel with max weight of trailer rated at 17995lbs.)This applies to diesel trucks only! Gas 2500 or F250 are different than diesels across all brands. If you really want to cover your self legally, after you modify your truck you can get it recertified. In the end if you have a bad accident you are still going to be sued, but hopefully your insurance company will back you as long as you’re not factory stock and overweight. Good luck to all! Stay safe! Just remember, If something doesn’t feel right while towing, PULL OVER AND CHECK THINGS OUT! Safe travels everyone, maybe run into one of while camping.😁
I've heard something similar to this in regard to modifications and getting it re-certified. Haven't dived deep into yet but this is interesting.
Do you know how you got about getting your truck recertified?
Trade your truck. I know the 250 diesel will pull it fine, but it’s the braking that will get you in the end. I know for a fact because I’ve been there, the F-250 has a heck of a time stopping a 5th wheel with that much weight. That’s why I went to a 350 with 7.3 gas. Good luck in finding a truck to handle the Solitude. I pull a similar Solitude with the 350.
You have trailer brakes for a reason. As long as you are within your combined gvwr you are able to stop fine. F250 is 10,000lbs 5th wheel is 16800 so you have a total of 26800lbs. He is more then in spec.
@@krice24 trailer breaks are required for something like that but thats still not enough. The guy should get a 350 because Overtime the only pockets he is hurting is his own. I a trailer now and then with my old 250 that was over but it was not something I did everyday like this guy who lives on the road.
F-250 and F350 have the exact same brakes. The only white difference between a 250 and a 350 is the heavier springs and more leaf springs in the rear. Other than that they have the exact same body exact same frame exact same everything just what engine you choose is the difference in weight
@@kenj.8897 You are correct, the brakes are basically the same. Not sure what I’m thinking. My 16k lbs 5th wheel is much more difficult to stop than my 10k lbs 5th was with my F-250, but that’s likely more to do with the trailer brakes on the 5th wheel not being fully broken in.
I have the trailer brake set to 9.5 and I feel like that's correct for our weight. Seems to work great. The only time it feels a little sketchy is if I'm trying to brake quickly going downhill, but even then the truck and trailer brake has handled it.
If your hitch wait is over your payload capacity so doesn't that mean your overloaded? As far as same as 350 payload your a little less my last 250 with camper package (extra leaf) was 3601 my current 350 is 3636 so your a bit less than a 350. It's not about the truck handling if you get DOT inspection your getting tickets your over weight for the truck you have bottom line.I do agree your truck will do it but legally your pushing your luck if something happens as far as accident and some gets hurt it there would probably be legal and financial issues for you even if not your fault
I appreciate your comment!
You’re fine legally as long as you don’t use it for work..and how you sticker it …what class, should be a class 5 with the weight
The Tremor package trucks are like this. The F250 and F350 Tremor are the EXACT same truck except for the sticker and badges. Its just a scam from ford to get a get a couple thousand bucks for a higher capacity sticker.
Smart. Your one of the few that understand. The f250 is a derated f350 for tac reasons. To please people just put f350 badges on it and airbags amd your an f350.
Thanks!
Myself I have a CDL I would buy a Peter Built to pull that monster let's talk about fuel mileage
part number for timbren is FRTT350J
is rated to 8000 lbs rear axle capacity
Thanks!!