During the first months of the pandemic, my husband and I begin researching RVing for our future retirement. NO LIE, your videos about cargo weight led is to lose a combined 100lbs since last July! Thank you so much for all the in depth details!
I strongly suggest whatever state you live in you go get yourself a DOT Book. I think you'll find that he's only making a suggestion. That sticker in the door means nothing. It all based on axles and tires. Don't trust any UA-cam video that you watch. Or somebody like me that's making a comment. Best thing you can do is go find out the rules for your state. Stay safe.
Sandra Westley from the UK here it’s advised for your trailer to be only 80% of the vehicle weight, when it’s loaded, other wise your tail will wag the dog, and that’s loaded. Our vehicles are plated with maximum gross weight and it’s up to you to weigh your rig and then check what you load in it and that it’s within your plated weight other wise your against the law and you invalidate your insurance, so your not cheating the law but yourself because you could be involved in a serious accident if your over loaded.
That's why I love my new Silverado 2500 gasser, 3600lbs payload and 10,650lb GVWR. Love the new VIN specific weight stickers GM puts on at the factory.
I have to say the info that JD puts out about this subject is priceless. I have seen too many people close to me make the mistake of towing things that far outweigh their payload and towing capacity simply because they "assumed" their big truck or or big SUV could handle it. In some cases, its resulted in bad things happening to them. Its to a point now that with every trailer I look at, I always check the weight sticker to see if its a good fit for my truck. For that matter, before I buy my next truck, Ill be sure to be checking door stickers. Weight matters.
It all depends on the truck and it's configuration. There are 3/4 tons like mine, with a camper prep and plow prep package, that have nearly 3000lbs of cargo capacity available without exceeding the axle weight rating. I only have about 2000lbs of GVWR available (crew cab), but that includes the wife, kids, dog, firewood, and a couple hundred pounds of fresh water in the bed.
Pickup trucks run out of payload long before they run out of tow rating. The best bet is to load your truck with everything you plan on taking camping, then weight it. What's left is what you have for pin weight. Then, and only then, go shopping. A rough estimate of your pin weight is 20% of the GVWR not the mythical dry weight. Some advocate using up to 25% of the GVWR. There are 5th-wheels out there with GVWRs in the 10,000# to 11,500# range that should be easily towable with 250/2500 series pickup.
It's amazing the amount of folks towing those 150 series with 1/2 ton trucks and not even thinking about payload , I just bought a 150 series 295RL and have a F250 with camper package and after towing with it I would never hook a 1/2 ton truck up to the 5th wheel
My 2021 Silverado 2500 diesel has 3241 payload capacity. I just installed a B&W turnover ball this week, so I need to fill up and go weigh it soon so I can 5th wheel shop. Looking at doing a goose box so I can save bed space. You videos are extremely helpful and informative for this newbie.
The more I watch your channel the more I’m inclined to just get a 1 ton and avoid the questions. The 3/4 ton gasser is an interesting solution for more capacity tho.
YEP! Just made the mistake of buying a 2021 Ram 2500 6.7 Mega Cab and now realize I should have researched more. I am so disappointed. Not even 1400 miles on my truck and its time to trade.
I just traded my F150 for an F350 diesel SRW. I wasn’t finding a gas 250 and the diesel 1 ton was on the lot from a same day trade in-a2019 with 23k miles. I plan to upgrade to a mid size 5er when we retire in a few years so the extra cost for the diesel should benefit us. The 350 gives us a 3600 lb payload and tons of pulling power going up and down the mountains. A one ton vs 3/4 is not much different in price when comparing similarly equipped trucks. I’m glad I went 1 ton.
@@stevekathyrunion2204 Yup right there with you but mine is a 2020 Ram 2500 with a 6.7 and I didn't look at the numbers close enough so I guess I will now wait to get the 5th wheel I want until truck prices go down
Love this video JD, IMO one of your best cause it goes to the point of safety and tow-ability .That manufacture uses 1/2 ton Fords for their commercial (150 series ) . I have the 280 rl 150 series and tow with a 3/4 ton Super-Duty 10,000lb GVW and 2800 .lb payload. With all of my equipment ,family, hitches etc. there isn’t much left over. I haven’t weighed it yet but would bet I’m getting close to that payload capacity. It does tow like a dream though and plenty of power..
I think you do an excellent job with specifics and generalities according to how your show is thematically targeted. Many 2020+ model Fords and GMCs 3/4 ton trucks, however, have great weight specs that they never had prior to 2020 and maybe 2017. Today’s 3/4 tons have weight towing and payload capacities that could only be found in earlier 1 ton dualies. Almost, 3,000 pound payloads, 27500 lbs overall tow ratings, and 18,000 lbs 5th wheel/gooseneck towing. I would say that’s in the range of a lot of 5th wheels. Yes that can be somewhat deceiving if you don’t look at all the payload, cargo and truck weight limits combined, but Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings are the trailers gvwr. There is nothing magical about that. I guess there are many out there who are not attentive and sales people willing to take advantage of that. Thanks for your shows!
Large 5th wheels can have an empty pin weight of 2500 lbs. That only leaves 500 lbs. for fuel/occupants & hitch weight. Today the tow capacity and GCWR are rarely an issue when towing travel trailer or 5th wheels. It's typically a payload capacity issue.
I have a 05 2500 Cummins check my truck the axle and frame are both from a 3500 the only thing needed to make it a 3500 is a overload spring. not all 3/4 tons are the same some small changes can increase bed capacity. Changed the leaf springs and my truck is exactly the same as a 1 ton now
There is a point where it’s just overkill and my only issue with this channel is that I always feel it’s necessary to have a 1 ton dually to carry anything over 7,000lbs. Then we get videos where he interviews professional RV transporters who don’t use dually trucks and nothing is mentioned.
@@whitetiger88251 yeah I'm not buying a 1ton dually to camp 2-3 times a year. And have to drive back and forth to work 6 days a week. But I'm also not trying to get a Colorado or Ranger and look at 5th wheels 🙃
Excellent video! I drive a 3/4-Ton truck - 2018 GMC 2500HD Crew Cab 4x4 Duramax. As JD has pointed out many times in previous videos, make sure you look at the white and yellow sticker inside the driver's side door jam entitled: "TIRE AND LOADING INFORMATION", for the actual payload for your specific truck. My 3/4-ton truck only has a payload of 2001 lbs. I could not tow the Reflection 150 series trailers highlighted in this video - a real eye--opener!
Great video. My family of 5 takes 1500 lbs of gear minimum. Only thing I don't like about goose neck toy hauler is ground clearance. The trail to property is always in rough shape.
I bet you Titan has a larger payload than even the Ram 2500 with the 6.7L diesel. I could kick myself. Just made the mistake of buying a 2021 Ram 2500 6.7 Mega Cab and now realize I should have researched more. I am so disappointed. Not even 1400 miles on my truck and its time to trade.
Doubt it. I looked at a titan xd with a diesel and only had 1700 lbs of payload. I think the max payload with the diesel is like 1900 something with the titan xd and diesel for the lightest configuration. I went with the f250 diesel towing our travel trailer and have no regrets. If I were to get a fifth wheel, I would go with a whole ton diesel.
I just bought a F350 with a 7.3 liter gas. It has 3940 lbs payload. Seems like a good option instead of a dually if you don’t want that big of a truck. I just traded in a 2017 F250 diesel and it’s payload was 2540lbs.
Best thing to do is look at the axle. If the camper /toyhauler has duel 6 lugs axles you are fine to tow with a 3/4 ton truck. That’s the most simplest way to know it’s safe to tow.
Great video with great information! Crunching the numbers on my 04 2500 duramax when all was said and done I could only handle around 1100# of pin weight so a 5th wheel was out of the question for the setup that I have.
Same boat. Just made the mistake of buying a 2021 Ram 2500 6.7 Mega Cab and now realize I should have researched more. I am so disappointed. Not even 1400 miles on my truck and its time to trade. I think I'm gonna throw up. Just plain sick about this.
@@stevekathyrunion2204 I feel your pain. We bought an F150 last year and thought it would tow our travel trailer no problem. Unfortunately the payload and soft suspension of a half ton was not ideal for our trailer. The good news is I sold the 150 for more than I paid for it and found a 2019 F350 Lariat SRW with 22k miles on it at a dealership and got a reasonable deal so now we have plenty of vehicle and 3600lbs of payload to allow a mid size 5er in the future. It worked out alright but we are in a crazy truck market
I have a question for you. I know you have mentioned that air bags do not increase your payload capacity but on some of the older trucks especially chevys the only difference between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton was the springs on the rear axel. With this example wouldn’t airbags on a 3/4 ton bring the payload up to a similarly configured 1 ton?
All comes down to the legal side of things...truck is rated at a given payload (sticker in the door frame). Anything happens during towing and you are over the sticker value things can get dicey
It is also the axle weight rating. The bearings and other moving components are frequently the limiting factor - not necessarily the springs. That is why airbags do not change the vehicles payload rating. Regardless of what you do if the vehicle is found to be overweight (per the door jamb sticker) in an accident investigation you can/will lose your insurance coverage from equipment misuse.
Good general advice particularly around diesels on 2500's...not to mention the extra 9 or 10K you will spend on a diesel. BUT, a key to understanding your trucks tow rating other than with or without a diesel are the SAE J2807 standards that FINALLY all truck manufacturers (as of 2013) have accepted and now rate their trucks with. Finally a single standard that everyone agrees to. So, anyway, you discuss things like the people in the truck and fluid weights, etc., The SAE standards take certain things into account now days. The standard ASSUMES there is both a driver and passenger in the vehicle, each weighing 150 pounds; It assumes that tow vehicles also include up to 70 pounds of aftermarket hitch equipment (where applicable). Further, it also assumes the truck has all fluids in the truck "full" including gas. What does this mean? It means that whatever tow rating your truck manufacturer gives you assumes there are three hundred lbs of people in the truck, your gas tank is full and that you have 70 lbs of aftermarket towing equipment on the truck like a drop hitch... OK, how does this affect me pulling a fifth wheel with a 2500 truck. FIRST, go to your truck manufacturer web site that tells you "exactly' what your truck is rated at. DO NOT use the standardized "charts" that the manufacturers have. They are max numbers without ANY options on the truck. Ignore them. I have a Ram truck. I can go to www.ramtrucks.com/towing/towing-guide.html#/landing/bytowing put in my VIN number and it tells me I have a 3,050 payload (the amount I can put in or on the truck) and a 14,580 max towing capability. I have a gas engine version. I believe all manufacturers have a similar website. Simply search on like Ford or GM tow ratings by VIN and you can find the link. So, what DON'T the SAE standards tell you? As the video notes, Each Set up is different in terms of weight and its distribution across a tow set up. The Standards also do NOT address things like altitude that may impact towability in a non-aspirated truck at 13000 feet on the Ike tunnel run. So, be aware always to your individual set up... AND, the seat of your pants and how white your knuckles are at the end of a long day of towing should always inform your decision...on whether or not you need a lighter trailer or a bigger truck... Now, coincidentally, I am looking at this exact trailer Reflections 150, 278bh, to potentially purchase AND, by watching this video and knowing my trucks Exact tow rating, I do feel more confident in purchasing one. So, thanks for the video... Much appreciated. I have also done my research.
“But I have a f-250 with the 6.7l diesel it will tow a house I can tow anything” love the people that think just because they have the diesel in their 3/4 ton it makes it able to tow whatever they fill like. Who cares about being legal and the ramifications of being over weight.
JD- Been watching you for over a year now and love the content. Have a question regarding tow ability. I have a 2021 GMC 2500HD Denali with a payload ability of 3065. My GVWR TWR for gooseneck is 17700 with a max tongue weight of 2655. Looking very seriously at an Alliance Avenue 32RLS. The gvw of the trailer is 13995 with a 2000 pin weight. Passengers are under 400 pounds, adding a 5th wheel at approx 150 pounds and around 200 pounds of "stuff" in the bed. It appears that I am "ok" weight wise. Your thoughts? Also my truck was not 5th wheel prepped. What are your thoughts on a 5th wheel slider? My bed is 7' long. I sure hope I hear back from you, I value your input. Keep those videos rolling, they are great. Ed
I have a 2022 F250 7.3 single rear wheel crew cab long bed with the camper package and 5th wheel prep. With a full tank of gas and myself and my 12 y/o in the truck it weighs 8100lbs. Door frame sticker states 10,000lb GVWR so that doesn't leave me much room for the weight of a fifth wheel
My 2004 Silverado 2500HD 2 door work truck with long bed has a payload of 3900 lbs... It great for weight but the gas engine and transmission makes it so slow lol You gotta find what best suits your needs overall...
Thank for the info. I have a 2022 DWD F350 with payload capacity of 5246. People can keep their calculators advising what they can tow. what REALLY maters is payload capacity. My old SWD F350 only had 4130 payload capacity so we upgraded to a dual wheel truck. Live in N. Texas and have been to your facility before. Nice.
You made some good points. When you go through a lot of information on weight, it might be helpful to have them written down on the screen. I understood what you were trying to say and the point of your video. But all those numbers can be confusing. You wouldn't have to be too fancy, a white board would be enough to organize the information. Anyway your videos are good and I enjoy them, but the retired adult instructor in me had to give you some feedback, I hope you don't mind.
I think the following rules of thumb make sense: 1. Never try to tow a 5er with a half ton truck. 2. You can (usually) idiot-proof payload drama by buying a one ton. The tricky decisions are simply 3/4 tons. That’s where math and the scale become very important. It’s nuts to think you *must* buy a one ton to tow a 5er given the dramatic range of weights across makes / models. It’s a good video, as usual, but rules of thumb for 3/4 trucks are tough. Like most things you’ll need to put in the work to understand the numbers.
I see entirely too many people bragging about overloading their trucks and getting away with it, this is exactly why I try to stay away from everybody towing an RV!
Here we have Japanese Trucks usually with a Medium Sized SUV in the bed, towing a mainly US built 36-40ft 5th wheeler. US 3/4 to 1 ton's do tend to go the maxium GCVWR for some 5th wheelers and they cannot carry SUV's in their beds
I have a 3/4 ton gas towing a 35 ft Brinkley TT.. Next time my wife mentions a big 5th wheel and I say I want a 1 ton truck, I will show her this video.
I’m having questions regarding fifth wheel tongue weights and my truck’s capacity. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but my simple math is as follows; My truck’s Rear GAWR is 6340, and I just weighed in at 3300. My Front GAWR is within limits as well. Does this mean that tongue weight and cargo over the rear axle can be up to 3040? Please understand that I’m not wanting to max out my truck’s capacity. I’m simply trying to make sense of the numbers and find a fifth wheel that can comfortably fit within my weight limits. Thanks for your reply!
I would love learning about towing a 5th wheel with a short bed. Have a 1 ton short bed with 3700lb payload capacity and have always towed bumper pulls. What can I do to pull a 5th wheel.
Put some air bags on your 3/4 ton works great. Same axles, frame, brakes all the same. All the manufacture is doing is putting heavier springs on it to raise the GVRW of a truck. I looked at part numbers compared my Ram 2500 CTD to a 3500 same year all the same part numbers.
With big truck you get the same overall gross weight, gear ratio just changes highway RPM and how well it hangs on a hill but it's still 34-34-12 on axles
When looking at 5th wheels or travel trailers, do we need to worry more about pin/hitch weight tow ability or the GVWR of the camper? There are so many weights being talked about. I always thought you just had to worry about GVWR? Confused 🤷♀️ help
Yes. The trailer weight (gvwr) is resting on two points: the axles and the tow pin/hitch. So your truck not only has to provide the forward motion but also support the weight of the front of the trailer. This is the pin/hitch weight. The reason half ton trucks are bad for hauling fifth wheels is becuase they have a low bed weight capacity. Not only is the trailer pin weight pressing down on your truck, but so are your extra cargo and your passengers. 3/4 and 1 ton pickups have the reinforced beds and axles to handle all this weight.
The payload sticker is a good thing for truck shopping but I always add accessories when I get a truck and I don’t know how much they’ll weigh so I have no idea what my actual payload will be. I only concern myself with trying to stay under the GVWR. I have a 35’ long fifth wheel and a 2016 F-250 XLT crew cab with the 6.2L gas engine. The trailer weighs under 11500 lbs and with a full tank of gas and the family on board I’m under the 9900 lbs GVWR by about 250 lbs. The 6.2L gas engine works fine for my fifth wheel but I’d want a diesel if I had anything bigger and I’d go to a 1 ton if I were buying a diesel.
One thing also people don't think of is fuel how much fuel is in the the tank . Is a variable .great info though very scarry what people pull with 1/2 ton
Just started watching your video but I know the answer is maybe. For instance, I have a 2019 2500hd, crew cab and 8’ bed with a diesel and fully loaded. This of course hurts my payload being every option loaded and that diesel. My GVWR is 10K and I weigh 8532 with me in the truck and what I normally carry. So roughly I have only 1500 pounds leftover. Now my buddys f250 with 6’ bed and extended cab has 3500 pounds of payload leftover so he’s totally good but I am not.
I was at an RV dealership here in South Texas where the salesman tried to convince me my 2012 Ram could tow a 8500 lb RV. Then I was in Montana watching an F150 tow a 5th wheel. You cannot listen to salesmen whose only goal is to put you in RV payments. This is so common yet salesmen and RVers just want to get into something bigger. It’s dangerous.
I have a 3/4 ton Dodge pickup truck that has a heavy duty package on it. Same engine and same brakes as a 1-ton, just only five leaves instead of 9 leaves for suspension. I can tow 17000 pounds with it , but could only have 2,200 lb in the back of the bed for hitch weight maximum. To fix the issue, I added airbags for $1,000 and now I can have five thousand pounds hitch weight instead of 2200 and now my 3/4 ton pickup truck can tow Dang there any fifth wheel I want
Airbags do NOT increase your truck's payload capacity. It is never more than listed on the door jamb. The capacity of the springs is only one part of the capacity calculation. The wheel bearings, hubs, axles and their supporting parts are not rated for the additional capacity. Your springs may support 5K lbs. with the help of an airbag - but the total truck payload capacity does not change.
But I do agree with with your summarization. All I was looking for was for the pin weight in the back of the bed. To increase it from 2200 to 3000 pounds which my 16000 pound trailer create. I can still tow 17,200 lbs is with or without the airbags
@@weedthepeople2492 Yes they will "hold 5000 lbs" but if you believe the hubs, axles, bearings and supporting structures will hold up over time you are sadly mistaken.
I am interested in this exact Grand Design, the 278BH. I’m trying to find the correct truck. I’m avoiding a half ton for all the reasons you mention. I like the idea of extra power with a full ton diesel but I’m not a fan of the rough ride. I’m looking at a 3/4 Ton Gas Crew Cab. I’m a simple man and don’t need a Platinum, Denali, etc. I’m happy with the lower trim models. I’ve done a lot of research and think I’ll be well within all specs, with plenty of wiggle room. I live in a flat part of the USA so driving up and down in the Rockies weekly isn’t going to happen.
That is crazy how a 1/2 ton has a 7100gvwr and a 3/4 has a 10000gvwr but the payload between the two could only b 400-500lbs. My F150 has almost 1800 payload compared to the 3/4 number u noted of ~2200.
Our 2023 Chevy 2500HD has 3508# of cargo capacity due to its 6.6L gas engine. It pulls & grade brakes the same or better than our 2008 3500 diesel did, modern trucks feel so much more refined. We have our current Chevy because our 2017 F-150 5.0-V8 was getting high in mileage & it was really stressful in windy conditions towing our 32' Imagine. Our Chevy tows it great, but recently my wife inherited a golf cart from her dad & we began exploring our options for toy haulers. Right away I ruled out a diesel as I'd lose 1,200# of truck capacity on a 3/4-ton. The hitch weight of the GD Momentum-G 320G claims 2,300# empty, but we know the hitch weight goes up with cargo. Also at 16,800# GVWR of the 320G is 98% of our truck's towing capacity, not ideal. If we transferred what we have now from our Imagine 2670mks transferred to the 320G, it would equate to about 85%. Again, not ideal, but we put 6K towing miles annually, FL to IL to CO & back (work to see relatives to play in FL in winter). We only do 2 minor mountain passes & typically tow at 55-62mph, just the wife & me, no puppy, a small cooler for lunches (double slide, no travel access), yada yada. Are we crazy to explore further? I paid $53K for our '23 Chevy, I couldn't find a 3500HD diesel for another $40K on top of it. If we go to a 27G bumper pull toy hauler we will be in the same boat with 2500HD 14K# towing limit of towing & the 13K# GVWR of the 27G (of which we would be closer to 11K actual towing). We work out of our RV for our consessionaire employer serving 13 campgrounds & 8 camp hosts/couples, so having adequate space to help employees with their HR computer inputs annually is a Godsend compared to the tiny Lance 23' TT we had when we last camp hosted. If we towed daily or weekly I'd say we needed a 3500HD diesel. Our 2500HD sits nearly idle May to October as we have company work trucks. November to April the 2500HD is a grocery getter & takes us to trail heads for our Ham Radio Parks On The Air activities. A Diesel would clog up as a grocery getter going 3 miles per week in winter, not warming up. Where is the balance? Most RVers do not think of this. We have been full-timing since 2008 & have many mistakes to go with our hard-earned wisdom, lol. I do not want to go down to a 10K# 5W, but if you shame me enough perhaps we will listen! We want the toy hauler.mainly for a big office. Cheers, David & Sheila Knapp
I just learned that there F150s with a payload of 3000# or more. They’re usually the work truck configurations that are fairly stripped. Even so an F150 crew cab with Max payload package is in the upper 2000# range. The lowest payload I’ve seen in a 3/4 ton is about 2200# on a Ram with a diesel. Most Fords are are high 2000s to low 3000s depending on engines and 10,000# payload package. You’d be hard pressed to find an F250 without that package. An F250 with a 7.3 liter Godzilla would probably be the best truck for towing a smaller fifth wheel. It would have payload to spare. It trounced GM & Ram on the TFL truck Ike gauntlet! That engine was specifically designed to haul loads, tow and for commercial purposes and is in most gas powered motor homes. It has a very flat torque curve for a gas engine and is very tunable. GM and RAM have some catching up to do. Maybe a new 454 or 440 hemi?
@@Schmitz3 I like what Ford did with that engine. It’s kind of old school with push rods instead of OHC. It’s less complicated even though it has variable valve timing. It’s designed to get decent fuel economy under load. An f250 with the 10,000 GVW package should give you over 3000 lb of payload
We didn’t worry about this a lot in the 70’s and 80’s but then we had real c channel truck frames and under rated trucks. Nowadays the trucks are made from lightweight materials,maxed capacity for competition bragging rights. And much less competent drivers going way to fast.
Of course what this doesn’t cover is that the GVWR on nearly all 3/4 ton trucks is artificially limited in order to keep them in a certain weight category. When you look at their axel capacities it’s apparent that they are designed and engineered to carry heavier loads. But just like the F350 with the optional lower GVWR they are de-rated in order to keep them in a certain weight category.
Even if the truck has the physical ability to carry/tow above the rated capacity - if there is an accident and the investigators believe the truck's rating ratings have been exceeded (as specified on the door jamb sticker) you may lose your insurance coverage - and if there is another vehicle involved you are in deep trouble...
@@johnf6579 ehhh no. Insurance covers you drunk right? As for legality of it feel free to cite a motor vehicle code that requires private non commercial operators to abide by all manufacturer recommendations.
That lawyer statement is pure bs. What do you think the term liability means in liability insurance. They literally cover you if it's your fault. They might raise your premiums or drop you after but that's the point of insurance, to cover you when you make a mistake.
Just got a 2022 Ram 2500 gasser, I wanted the 6.7 but the payload on it was 1800, the gasser I got was 2990, doing a VIN search on the Ram web site found my truck combo to be 2990 payload and 16780 towable. So I got the Gasser. I have a Laramie Crew Cab short bed. If would of got the entry level tradesman, I would of had lot more payload and towable.
That is why these ratings are BS. No way that gas engine could or should be towing more. It may have a better payload rating but the Cummins will walk it all day long even being “overloaded.”
Here's we're I fuzz out the same spec truck with a lower gear rear end will have a higher tow rating, same brakes same tires same frame, gear ratio doesn't change anything but torque multiplication won't stop any shorter
I have a truck with 4.30 gears, and if you were coming from a 3.73 truck, or a 3.55 truck, you would notice that, when you let out of the throttle, it feels like the 3.73 truck downshifted in the way that engine compression and the pumping resistance against the throttle body slows the truck.
What about the Ford super duty trucks that come with a paper in the owners manual stating that the stated cargo capacity is after you account for 150 pounds in each seating position? In my truck that adds 750 pounds to the states capacity on my door sticker. Not a lot but still relevant.
Can't calculate this. Maybe estimate it based on your trailers GVWR. 20-25% of that GVWR is the allowed pin weight. Best is to load trailer to travel with all your stuff and drag it to a scale.
Im looking at upgrading to a 3/4 ton truck, a dodge ram 2500. How much gvwr or dry weight can I tow on a ram 2500 6.4 liter hemi? What size fifth wheels are towable? From my research the payload is around 2,910 lbs, gvwr on the truck is 10,000 pounds. Thanks
What year is it? I have a 04 chevy 2500hd 6.0 gas and it says the towing capacity is 12,000. Im also trying to figure out whats the most i can tow because i hear a lot of folks say they tow more than what the truck says it can handle.
I hope they make it. If they can do in a super duty what they did with the F-150 but with a bigger battery for all electric driving, I would buy immediately.
It’s not what you can pull , it’s what you can control, and more importantly stop. I’ve heard guys say “police don’t check campers to see if your overweight”. They will when you can’t stop and kill someone. Then one of those injury lawyers come after you and when it’s proved you were illegally towing your camper (because you’d exceeded you vehicles weight limits) you’re in big trouble.
Another great video JD. I always seam to have a difficulty NOT throwing my 2 cents out on this subject. Okay, let's just say it's within the limits the manufacturer says is the max for a truck. Sure, it's got the same engine. It's falling within the weight limit of the manufacture specs but what does that 3/4 ton truck weigh? 2022 Ram is at 5988pds. Ford 6462 and GM 7886. Compare that to the 1 ton Ram 7326pds, Ford is 8133 and the Gm coming in at 8300 pounds. What happens when a gust of 45mph wind surprises you from the side at 55mph or even faster? When a trailer weighs more than the leader and the trailer acts like a kite in the wind, having the weight in front makes a lot of sense....or am I wrong? Having the proper quantity of things running on the ground, keeping everything nice and straight helps a bit as well. Or am I missing something? How about stopping? What if the trailer connection is lost like it has for me once or twice losing my trailer brakes? I was glad I had those extra set of wheels on the ground along with the weight to keep that thing behind me under control. This is always my argument being the "Captain Dually" when it comes to this subject.
Going to the Grand Design web site that 278BH has an advertised hitch weight of 1338 Is that an empty or a full hitch weight? If it is not they should add a full weight to assist the consumer.
Payload capacity is the single reason we upgraded to a dually about 5 months ago. In the last 2 years on the road full time we have seen too many accidents and I do not want an ounce of the possibility of being over weight if something should ever happen on the road.
Hi.. we are looking at some of the GD reflections.. I am trying to figure the right unit to buy (in the reflection) for a towing vehicle that I have.. for me I have a 2016 F 250 6.2 L V8 with a towing package, axle ratio 3.73. Now the spec show in tow to be around 20,000 lbs. The truck is 10,500 lbs. total weight. Thank you
For the weekend tow-warrior $10k for a 900lb diesel just doesn't make sense. The 3/4 gasser is the economical choice with payload snd tow margins where you need it for decent (safe) 5th wheel hauling.
I have a 21 f350 cc lb 4x4 7.3 gas 4.30 rearend, Monday I pick up a kz 363th12 toy hauler 5th wheel it is a 3 axle trailer with a dry weight of 11330 a dry pin of 2120 and a gvwr of 15240 which it will never see the only thing going in the garage is 2 high end mountain bikes that are sub 28 pounds each ,the payload sticker on my door sill is 3899 companion hitch is 140 me and wife are made 325 , I ain't asking and she ain't telling, anyway should be ok?
Excellent video. We are buying our first trailer. We have a 2000 Chevy Silverado with a 7.4 litre vortex motor . The truck is a K 2500. What would be a reasonable trailer we could safely tow ? Thanks for any advice
So if I have a F250 w/the 6.78L turbo diesel and per Ford chart the max weight is around 19k. How do I determine pin weight ect? Our ‘dream’ rig is an under 40 ft GD Solitude or something like that. TIA
The truck's payload rating is on a sticker located on the drivers door frame. First add the weight of occupants (600lbs), fuel (200lbs) and hitch (150lbs). Then take the pin weight rating of the trailer and add about 500 lbs. for batteries, cargo, propane , and generator. A 41' GD pin weight including the additional cargo is 3000 lbs. The trailers pin weight and truck cargo make a total payload of roughly 4000 lbs. If trailering more than a couple of times a year and/or long distances many people would recommend an F-350 when reaching this kind of payload. I prefer to never exceed 80% of any/all of the truck and trailer capacities.
I live on a main rd and going by these trucks pulling rvs I bet way over 50% are over and i know it has been happening for yrs.i understand the safety factor but unless your pulling long distance I believe and it is happening daily u can handle these bigger rvs with less truck at short distance
During the first months of the pandemic, my husband and I begin researching RVing for our future retirement. NO LIE, your videos about cargo weight led is to lose a combined 100lbs since last July! Thank you so much for all the in depth details!
I strongly suggest whatever state you live in you go get yourself a DOT Book. I think you'll find that he's only making a suggestion. That sticker in the door means nothing. It all based on axles and tires. Don't trust any UA-cam video that you watch. Or somebody like me that's making a comment. Best thing you can do is go find out the rules for your state. Stay safe.
Sandra Westley from the UK here it’s advised for your trailer to be only 80% of the vehicle weight, when it’s loaded, other wise your tail will wag the dog, and that’s loaded. Our vehicles are plated with maximum gross weight and it’s up to you to weigh your rig and then check what you load in it and that it’s within your plated weight other wise your against the law and you invalidate your insurance, so your not cheating the law but yourself because you could be involved in a serious accident if your over loaded.
That's why I love my new Silverado 2500 gasser, 3600lbs payload and 10,650lb GVWR. Love the new VIN specific weight stickers GM puts on at the factory.
We got the same truck
Pulling a 12' aluminum boat with a Cummings diesel ...thinking I'm really close on pin weight
Thank you! Hopefully the right people are listening to this video and getting the message. I did!
I have to say the info that JD puts out about this subject is priceless. I have seen too many people close to me make the mistake of towing things that far outweigh their payload and towing capacity simply because they "assumed" their big truck or or big SUV could handle it. In some cases, its resulted in bad things happening to them. Its to a point now that with every trailer I look at, I always check the weight sticker to see if its a good fit for my truck. For that matter, before I buy my next truck, Ill be sure to be checking door stickers. Weight matters.
Thanks for the video. I have ram2500 hemi with payload of 3000 plus. GD278bh will be my next trailer.
Thanks JD, got a 3/4 ton with a 3000 payload and 14,000+ towing. Looking at a 30' 5th wheel at about 10,000 GVWR
That truck wont even know the trailer is back there, you can pull a 40’ 14,000 lb if you want
It all depends on the truck and it's configuration. There are 3/4 tons like mine, with a camper prep and plow prep package, that have nearly 3000lbs of cargo capacity available without exceeding the axle weight rating. I only have about 2000lbs of GVWR available (crew cab), but that includes the wife, kids, dog, firewood, and a couple hundred pounds of fresh water in the bed.
Pickup trucks run out of payload long before they run out of tow rating. The best bet is to load your truck with everything you plan on taking camping, then weight it. What's left is what you have for pin weight. Then, and only then, go shopping. A rough estimate of your pin weight is 20% of the GVWR not the mythical dry weight. Some advocate using up to 25% of the GVWR. There are 5th-wheels out there with GVWRs in the 10,000# to 11,500# range that should be easily towable with 250/2500 series pickup.
It's amazing the amount of folks towing those 150 series with 1/2 ton trucks and not even thinking about payload , I just bought a 150 series 295RL and have a F250 with camper package and after towing with it I would never hook a 1/2 ton truck up to the 5th wheel
There are small 5th wheels not many I have seen some in the 25 foot range that are light enough.
My 2021 Silverado 2500 diesel has 3241 payload capacity. I just installed a B&W turnover ball this week, so I need to fill up and go weigh it soon so I can 5th wheel shop. Looking at doing a goose box so I can save bed space. You videos are extremely helpful and informative for this newbie.
Impressive payload numbers for a 3/4 ton diesel
Are you sure that’s the sticker on the truck and not on the website. Sounds like a gas payload max to me.
Are you sure about that? If so, very impressive. My '15 F-250 diesel only has 2030 lbs of payload. Check the sticker in the doorjam
@@Jason-yq1zs some of the 2020+ GM 2500’s have a gvwr of 11350 pounds. With the gas it’s slightly less.
That sounds about right the 11,350 GVWR gains you a lot of payload.
7.3 F250 Tremor 3100lbs payload. Payload was a big reason I went with the 7.3, tons of power and plenty of payload for a SRW truck. Thanks JD.
My payload is more than that with 21 silverado 2500 6.6 gas
@@rc_1621 good job?
i have more than that on GMC duramax....that seems really low
@kirkdunn1379 crew cab 4x4?
The more I watch your channel the more I’m inclined to just get a 1 ton and avoid the questions. The 3/4 ton gasser is an interesting solution for more capacity tho.
YEP! Just made the mistake of buying a 2021 Ram 2500 6.7 Mega Cab and now realize I should have researched more. I am so disappointed. Not even 1400 miles on my truck and its time to trade.
I just traded my F150 for an F350 diesel SRW. I wasn’t finding a gas 250 and the diesel 1 ton was on the lot from a same day trade in-a2019 with 23k miles. I plan to upgrade to a mid size 5er when we retire in a few years so the extra cost for the diesel should benefit us. The 350 gives us a 3600 lb payload and tons of pulling power going up and down the mountains. A one ton vs 3/4 is not much different in price when comparing similarly equipped trucks. I’m glad I went 1 ton.
@@stevekathyrunion2204 Yup right there with you but mine is a 2020 Ram 2500 with a 6.7 and I didn't look at the numbers close enough so I guess I will now wait to get the 5th wheel I want until truck prices go down
Thank you Josh, We have a 3/4 ton and were still learning.
Josh? Why do so many people think I'm Josh. We live like 1200miles apart :)
@@BTBRVReviews 🤣, it’s like “Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!” (brady bunch, lol).
Love this video JD, IMO one of your best cause it goes to the point of safety and tow-ability .That manufacture uses 1/2 ton Fords for their commercial (150 series ) . I have the 280 rl 150 series and tow with a 3/4 ton Super-Duty 10,000lb GVW and 2800 .lb payload. With all of my equipment ,family, hitches etc. there isn’t much left over. I haven’t weighed it yet but would bet I’m getting close to that payload capacity. It does tow like a dream though and plenty of power..
I think you do an excellent job with specifics and generalities according to how your show is thematically targeted. Many 2020+ model Fords and GMCs 3/4 ton trucks, however, have great weight specs that they never had prior to 2020 and maybe 2017. Today’s 3/4 tons have weight towing and payload capacities that could only be found in earlier 1 ton dualies. Almost, 3,000 pound payloads, 27500 lbs overall tow ratings, and 18,000 lbs 5th wheel/gooseneck towing. I would say that’s in the range of a lot of 5th wheels. Yes that can be somewhat deceiving if you don’t look at all the payload, cargo and truck weight limits combined, but Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings are the trailers gvwr. There is nothing magical about that. I guess there are many out there who are not attentive and sales people willing to take advantage of that. Thanks for your shows!
Large 5th wheels can have an empty pin weight of 2500 lbs. That only leaves 500 lbs. for fuel/occupants & hitch weight. Today the tow capacity and GCWR are rarely an issue when towing travel trailer or 5th wheels. It's typically a payload capacity issue.
@@johnf6579 Agreed!
I have a 05 2500 Cummins check my truck the axle and frame are both from a 3500 the only thing needed to make it a 3500 is a overload spring. not all 3/4 tons are the same some small changes can increase bed capacity. Changed the leaf springs and my truck is exactly the same as a 1 ton now
3/4 ton pulling a 41’ Fuzion triple axle no problem lol way it’s going everyone will need a semi to pull their campers to be legal.
I have a 2019 3/4 ton Ford F 250 diesel 6.7 power stroke that pulls 5th wheeler 44ft with no problem.
@@nikkiarvallo645 I hope lol
There is a point where it’s just overkill and my only issue with this channel is that I always feel it’s necessary to have a 1 ton dually to carry anything over 7,000lbs. Then we get videos where he interviews professional RV transporters who don’t use dually trucks and nothing is mentioned.
@@whitetiger88251 overkill is his middle name
@@whitetiger88251 yeah I'm not buying a 1ton dually to camp 2-3 times a year. And have to drive back and forth to work 6 days a week. But I'm also not trying to get a Colorado or Ranger and look at 5th wheels 🙃
Thanks again for what specs to look at when towing. You'd think the insurance industry whould message this better for prospective RV'rs!
we just got a 5th wheel. My truck F250, gas engine has cargo capacity of 3105 lbs. , which is very helpful. The oin weight for the trailer is 1500lbs.
Excellent video! I drive a 3/4-Ton truck - 2018 GMC 2500HD Crew Cab 4x4 Duramax. As JD has pointed out many times in previous videos, make sure you look at the white and yellow sticker inside the driver's side door jam entitled: "TIRE AND LOADING INFORMATION", for the actual payload for your specific truck. My 3/4-ton truck only has a payload of 2001 lbs. I could not tow the Reflection 150 series trailers highlighted in this video - a real eye--opener!
Interesting. My 1998 GMC 2500 has a payload of 2900 lbs and a tow capacity of 10k with a 5th wheel according to the owners manual…
Your truck has a payload capacity of 2456-2513lbs, depending on bed length. Where did you get 2001?
I just bought a 2021 F250 with a max tow package. It comes in with 2800# plus pay load with a 6.7 diesel.
What engine did you get?
@@Schmitz3 6.7 diesel
@@f250x3 what does the door sticker say?
@@nw843x 2826# or 1281 kg if you like the metric system
I’ve got 2020 F-250 6.7 Platinum with max tow. My payload is 2,900. Wonder if 2021 is the same.
We pull a 28.5 Jayco Eagle with our 2016 F250 Diesel. Works wonderfully. We just finished a 10 day DC, OBX trip.
Great video. My family of 5 takes 1500 lbs of gear minimum. Only thing I don't like about goose neck toy hauler is ground clearance. The trail to property is always in rough shape.
Great review JD!
The GVWR includes the propane and batteries. You are counting them twice. G stands for gross, that's total.
Don't forget the upgrades, 2nd A/C, 2nd fantastic fan, 3 batteries, slide toppers etc all extra weight.
3/4 ton is fine. Just watch your numbers. I tow a fifth wheel with a diesel Titan XD. Been great for 3 years now.
I bet you Titan has a larger payload than even the Ram 2500 with the 6.7L diesel. I could kick myself. Just made the mistake of buying a 2021 Ram 2500 6.7 Mega Cab and now realize I should have researched more. I am so disappointed. Not even 1400 miles on my truck and its time to trade.
Doubt it. I looked at a titan xd with a diesel and only had 1700 lbs of payload. I think the max payload with the diesel is like 1900 something with the titan xd and diesel for the lightest configuration. I went with the f250 diesel towing our travel trailer and have no regrets. If I were to get a fifth wheel, I would go with a whole ton diesel.
@@stevekathyrunion2204that rating is bs anyway. They made them low so you could keep it registered cheaper.
I just bought a F350 with a 7.3 liter gas. It has 3940 lbs payload. Seems like a good option instead of a dually if you don’t want that big of a truck. I just traded in a 2017 F250 diesel and it’s payload was 2540lbs.
What year is the truck?
I used to pull a 12500 pound fifth wheel with a 1996 Chevy 2500 2wD standard cab long bed 6.5 diesel got 11 mpg
🤦
@@dingbatjack1234 I put a lot of miles on that rig I never had one issue
You were very lucky, thankfully.
Best thing to do is look at the axle. If the camper /toyhauler has duel 6 lugs axles you are fine to tow with a 3/4 ton truck. That’s the most simplest way to know it’s safe to tow.
Just got the 7.3 liter in an F-350 SRW. I have 3900 lbs of payload so pin weight shouldn’t ever be an issue.
Great video with great information! Crunching the numbers on my 04 2500 duramax when all was said and done I could only handle around 1100# of pin weight so a 5th wheel was out of the question for the setup that I have.
What popped up in my mind is “now who (manufacturer) has the smallest 5th wheel”, 🤔, lol. 🍻
Same boat. Just made the mistake of buying a 2021 Ram 2500 6.7 Mega Cab and now realize I should have researched more. I am so disappointed. Not even 1400 miles on my truck and its time to trade. I think I'm gonna throw up. Just plain sick about this.
@@stevekathyrunion2204 I feel your pain. We bought an F150 last year and thought it would tow our travel trailer no problem. Unfortunately the payload and soft suspension of a half ton was not ideal for our trailer. The good news is I sold the 150 for more than I paid for it and found a 2019 F350 Lariat SRW with 22k miles on it at a dealership and got a reasonable deal so now we have plenty of vehicle and 3600lbs of payload to allow a mid size 5er in the future. It worked out alright but we are in a crazy truck market
I have a question for you. I know you have mentioned that air bags do not increase your payload capacity but on some of the older trucks especially chevys the only difference between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton was the springs on the rear axel. With this example wouldn’t airbags on a 3/4 ton bring the payload up to a similarly configured 1 ton?
All comes down to the legal side of things...truck is rated at a given payload (sticker in the door frame). Anything happens during towing and you are over the sticker value things can get dicey
It is also the axle weight rating. The bearings and other moving components are frequently the limiting factor - not necessarily the springs. That is why airbags do not change the vehicles payload rating. Regardless of what you do if the vehicle is found to be overweight (per the door jamb sticker) in an accident investigation you can/will lose your insurance coverage from equipment misuse.
@@johnf6579the bearings/hubs are the exact same on a 250 and a 350
Good general advice particularly around diesels on 2500's...not to mention the extra 9 or 10K you will spend on a diesel. BUT, a key to understanding your trucks tow rating other than with or without a diesel are the SAE J2807 standards that FINALLY all truck manufacturers (as of 2013) have accepted and now rate their trucks with. Finally a single standard that everyone agrees to. So, anyway, you discuss things like the people in the truck and fluid weights, etc.,
The SAE standards take certain things into account now days. The standard ASSUMES there is both a driver and passenger in the vehicle, each weighing 150 pounds; It assumes that tow vehicles also include up to 70 pounds of aftermarket hitch equipment (where applicable). Further, it also assumes the truck has all fluids in the truck "full" including gas.
What does this mean? It means that whatever tow rating your truck manufacturer gives you assumes there are three hundred lbs of people in the truck, your gas tank is full and that you have 70 lbs of aftermarket towing equipment on the truck like a drop hitch...
OK, how does this affect me pulling a fifth wheel with a 2500 truck. FIRST, go to your truck manufacturer web site that tells you "exactly' what your truck is rated at. DO NOT use the standardized "charts" that the manufacturers have. They are max numbers without ANY options on the truck. Ignore them. I have a Ram truck. I can go to www.ramtrucks.com/towing/towing-guide.html#/landing/bytowing put in my VIN number and it tells me I have a 3,050 payload (the amount I can put in or on the truck) and a 14,580 max towing capability. I have a gas engine version.
I believe all manufacturers have a similar website. Simply search on like Ford or GM tow ratings by VIN and you can find the link. So, what DON'T the SAE standards tell you? As the video notes, Each Set up is different in terms of weight and its distribution across a tow set up. The Standards also do NOT address things like altitude that may impact towability in a non-aspirated truck at 13000 feet on the Ike tunnel run. So, be aware always to your individual set up... AND, the seat of your pants and how white your knuckles are at the end of a long day of towing should always inform your decision...on whether or not you need a lighter trailer or a bigger truck...
Now, coincidentally, I am looking at this exact trailer Reflections 150, 278bh, to potentially purchase AND, by watching this video and knowing my trucks Exact tow rating, I do feel more confident in purchasing one. So, thanks for the video... Much appreciated. I have also done my research.
“But I have a f-250 with the 6.7l diesel it will tow a house I can tow anything” love the people that think just because they have the diesel in their 3/4 ton it makes it able to tow whatever they fill like. Who cares about being legal and the ramifications of being over weight.
JD- Been watching you for over a year now and love the content. Have a question regarding tow ability. I have a 2021 GMC 2500HD Denali with a payload ability of 3065. My GVWR TWR for gooseneck is 17700 with a max tongue weight of 2655. Looking very seriously at an Alliance Avenue 32RLS. The gvw of the trailer is 13995 with a 2000 pin weight. Passengers are under 400 pounds, adding a 5th wheel at approx 150 pounds and around 200 pounds of "stuff" in the bed. It appears that I am "ok" weight wise. Your thoughts?
Also my truck was not 5th wheel prepped. What are your thoughts on a 5th wheel slider? My bed is 7' long. I sure hope I hear back from you, I value your input. Keep those videos rolling, they are great.
Ed
I pulled my 34 foot 5th wheel for years with my chevy hefty half .
I have a 2022 F250 7.3 single rear wheel crew cab long bed with the camper package and 5th wheel prep. With a full tank of gas and myself and my 12 y/o in the truck it weighs 8100lbs.
Door frame sticker states 10,000lb GVWR so that doesn't leave me much room for the weight of a fifth wheel
My 2004 Silverado 2500HD 2 door work truck with long bed has a payload of 3900 lbs... It great for weight but the gas engine and transmission makes it so slow lol You gotta find what best suits your needs overall...
@lotsofpaypa BINGO!!
Thank for the info. I have a 2022 DWD F350 with payload capacity of 5246. People can keep their calculators advising what they can tow. what REALLY maters is payload capacity. My old SWD F350 only had 4130 payload capacity so we upgraded to a dual wheel truck. Live in N. Texas and have been to your facility before. Nice.
You made some good points. When you go through a lot of information on weight, it might be helpful to have them written down on the screen. I understood what you were trying to say and the point of your video. But all those numbers can be confusing. You wouldn't have to be too fancy, a white board would be enough to organize the information. Anyway your videos are good and I enjoy them, but the retired adult instructor in me had to give you some feedback, I hope you don't mind.
i agree here, it's number soup to a rookie like me but common sense to a vet
I think the following rules of thumb make sense:
1. Never try to tow a 5er with a half ton truck.
2. You can (usually) idiot-proof payload drama by buying a one ton.
The tricky decisions are simply 3/4 tons. That’s where math and the scale become very important. It’s nuts to think you *must* buy a one ton to tow a 5er given the dramatic range of weights across makes / models. It’s a good video, as usual, but rules of thumb for 3/4 trucks are tough. Like most things you’ll need to put in the work to understand the numbers.
A scamp would probably qualify for half ton use.
I see entirely too many people bragging about overloading their trucks and getting away with it, this is exactly why I try to stay away from everybody towing an RV!
Can a 04 2500hd 6.0 gas tow about 2,000 more pounds than its towing capacity?
Yes...especially whenyou go GM 2500 with Max trailer package.
Here we have Japanese Trucks usually with a Medium Sized SUV in the bed, towing a mainly US built 36-40ft 5th wheeler. US 3/4 to 1 ton's do tend to go the maxium GCVWR for some 5th wheelers and they cannot carry SUV's in their beds
Concur, I have a reflection 150 series 295rls. I use an F350 to tow it.
I have a f3506.4 diesel 4x4 super duty I’m getting the run around how much fifth wheel I can tow?
@@dewman271 You have a beast" of a truck!!
I have a 3/4 ton gas towing a 35 ft Brinkley TT.. Next time my wife mentions a big 5th wheel and I say I want a 1 ton truck, I will show her this video.
I’m having questions regarding fifth wheel tongue weights and my truck’s capacity. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but my simple math is as follows;
My truck’s Rear GAWR is 6340, and I just weighed in at 3300. My Front GAWR is within limits as well. Does this mean that tongue weight and cargo over the rear axle can be up to 3040? Please understand that I’m not wanting to max out my truck’s capacity. I’m simply trying to make sense of the numbers and find a fifth wheel that can comfortably fit within my weight limits. Thanks for your reply!
I would love learning about towing a 5th wheel with a short bed. Have a 1 ton short bed with 3700lb payload capacity and have always towed bumper pulls. What can I do to pull a 5th wheel.
They make sliding fifth wheel hitches.
Put some air bags on your 3/4 ton works great. Same axles, frame, brakes all the same. All the manufacture is doing is putting heavier springs on it to raise the GVRW of a truck. I looked at part numbers compared my Ram 2500 CTD to a 3500 same year all the same part numbers.
With big truck you get the same overall gross weight, gear ratio just changes highway RPM and how well it hangs on a hill but it's still 34-34-12 on axles
Thanks Josh for sharing your knowledge. Thanks for dumbing it down.....🤘🏼
When looking at 5th wheels or travel trailers, do we need to worry more about pin/hitch weight tow ability or the GVWR of the camper? There are so many weights being talked about. I always thought you just had to worry about GVWR? Confused 🤷♀️ help
Yes.
The trailer weight (gvwr) is resting on two points: the axles and the tow pin/hitch. So your truck not only has to provide the forward motion but also support the weight of the front of the trailer. This is the pin/hitch weight.
The reason half ton trucks are bad for hauling fifth wheels is becuase they have a low bed weight capacity. Not only is the trailer pin weight pressing down on your truck, but so are your extra cargo and your passengers. 3/4 and 1 ton pickups have the reinforced beds and axles to handle all this weight.
Thanks for the video! Less than a day in response time.
The payload sticker is a good thing for truck shopping but I always add accessories when I get a truck and I don’t know how much they’ll weigh so I have no idea what my actual payload will be. I only concern myself with trying to stay under the GVWR. I have a 35’ long fifth wheel and a 2016 F-250 XLT crew cab with the 6.2L gas engine. The trailer weighs under 11500 lbs and with a full tank of gas and the family on board I’m under the 9900 lbs GVWR by about 250 lbs. The 6.2L gas engine works fine for my fifth wheel but I’d want a diesel if I had anything bigger and I’d go to a 1 ton if I were buying a diesel.
2020 ram 3500 tradesman 6.7 HO with aisin transmission. RV, nitro XLR 407 toy hauler 44 ft. 21,000 gvwr.
I was looking at that truck because my rv is about the same weight and length
The gawr rear is the important weight to consider not the gvwr for fifth wheel trailers pin weight
One thing also people don't think of is fuel how much fuel is in the the tank . Is a variable .great info though very scarry what people pull with 1/2 ton
Just started watching your video but I know the answer is maybe. For instance, I have a 2019 2500hd, crew cab and 8’ bed with a diesel and fully loaded. This of course hurts my payload being every option loaded and that diesel. My GVWR is 10K and I weigh 8532 with me in the truck and what I normally carry. So roughly I have only 1500 pounds leftover. Now my buddys f250 with 6’ bed and extended cab has 3500 pounds of payload leftover so he’s totally good but I am not.
I was at an RV dealership here in South Texas where the salesman tried to convince me my 2012 Ram could tow a 8500 lb RV. Then I was in Montana watching an F150 tow a 5th wheel. You cannot listen to salesmen whose only goal is to put you in RV payments.
This is so common yet salesmen and RVers just want to get into something bigger. It’s dangerous.
1/2 ton trucks can tow fifth wheels but it is terrible on the truck
I have a 3/4 ton Dodge pickup truck that has a heavy duty package on it. Same engine and same brakes as a 1-ton, just only five leaves instead of 9 leaves for suspension. I can tow 17000 pounds with it , but could only have 2,200 lb in the back of the bed for hitch weight maximum. To fix the issue, I added airbags for $1,000 and now I can have five thousand pounds hitch weight instead of 2200 and now my 3/4 ton pickup truck can tow Dang there any fifth wheel I want
Same except I went with timbrens instead of airbags
Airbags do NOT increase your truck's payload capacity. It is never more than listed on the door jamb.
The capacity of the springs is only one part of the capacity calculation. The wheel bearings, hubs, axles and their supporting parts are not rated for the additional capacity.
Your springs may support 5K lbs. with the help of an airbag - but the total truck payload capacity does not change.
@@johnf6579 incorrect sir, those air bags will prop up 5000 pounds
But I do agree with with your summarization. All I was looking for was for the pin weight in the back of the bed. To increase it from 2200 to 3000 pounds which my 16000 pound trailer create. I can still tow 17,200 lbs is with or without the airbags
@@weedthepeople2492 Yes they will "hold 5000 lbs" but if you believe the hubs, axles, bearings and supporting structures will hold up over time you are sadly mistaken.
I am interested in this exact Grand Design, the 278BH. I’m trying to find the correct truck. I’m avoiding a half ton for all the reasons you mention. I like the idea of extra power with a full ton diesel but I’m not a fan of the rough ride. I’m looking at a 3/4 Ton Gas Crew Cab. I’m a simple man and don’t need a Platinum, Denali, etc. I’m happy with the lower trim models. I’ve done a lot of research and think I’ll be well within all specs, with plenty of wiggle room. I live in a flat part of the USA so driving up and down in the Rockies weekly isn’t going to happen.
2024 f250 6.8 payload is 3,900lbs am I good?
That is crazy how a 1/2 ton has a 7100gvwr and a 3/4 has a 10000gvwr but the payload between the two could only b 400-500lbs. My F150 has almost 1800 payload compared to the 3/4 number u noted of ~2200.
Our 2023 Chevy 2500HD has 3508# of cargo capacity due to its 6.6L gas engine. It pulls & grade brakes the same or better than our 2008 3500 diesel did, modern trucks feel so much more refined. We have our current Chevy because our 2017 F-150 5.0-V8 was getting high in mileage & it was really stressful in windy conditions towing our 32' Imagine. Our Chevy tows it great, but recently my wife inherited a golf cart from her dad & we began exploring our options for toy haulers. Right away I ruled out a diesel as I'd lose 1,200# of truck capacity on a 3/4-ton. The hitch weight of the GD Momentum-G 320G claims 2,300# empty, but we know the hitch weight goes up with cargo. Also at 16,800# GVWR of the 320G is 98% of our truck's towing capacity, not ideal. If we transferred what we have now from our Imagine 2670mks transferred to the 320G, it would equate to about 85%. Again, not ideal, but we put 6K towing miles annually, FL to IL to CO & back (work to see relatives to play in FL in winter). We only do 2 minor mountain passes & typically tow at 55-62mph, just the wife & me, no puppy, a small cooler for lunches (double slide, no travel access), yada yada.
Are we crazy to explore further? I paid $53K for our '23 Chevy, I couldn't find a 3500HD diesel for another $40K on top of it. If we go to a 27G bumper pull toy hauler we will be in the same boat with 2500HD 14K# towing limit of towing & the 13K# GVWR of the 27G (of which we would be closer to 11K actual towing). We work out of our RV for our consessionaire employer serving 13 campgrounds & 8 camp hosts/couples, so having adequate space to help employees with their HR computer inputs annually is a Godsend compared to the tiny Lance 23' TT we had when we last camp hosted. If we towed daily or weekly I'd say we needed a 3500HD diesel. Our 2500HD sits nearly idle May to October as we have company work trucks. November to April the 2500HD is a grocery getter & takes us to trail heads for our Ham Radio Parks On The Air activities.
A Diesel would clog up as a grocery getter going 3 miles per week in winter, not warming up. Where is the balance? Most RVers do not think of this. We have been full-timing since 2008 & have many mistakes to go with our hard-earned wisdom, lol. I do not want to go down to a 10K# 5W, but if you shame me enough perhaps we will listen! We want the toy hauler.mainly for a big office.
Cheers, David & Sheila Knapp
I just learned that there F150s with a payload of 3000# or more. They’re usually the work truck configurations that are fairly stripped. Even so an F150 crew cab with Max payload package is in the upper 2000# range. The lowest payload I’ve seen in a 3/4 ton is about 2200# on a Ram with a diesel. Most Fords are are high 2000s to low 3000s depending on engines and 10,000# payload package. You’d be hard pressed to find an F250 without that package. An F250 with a 7.3 liter Godzilla would probably be the best truck for towing a smaller fifth wheel. It would have payload to spare. It trounced GM & Ram on the TFL truck Ike gauntlet! That engine was specifically designed to haul loads, tow and for commercial purposes and is in most gas powered motor homes. It has a very flat torque curve for a gas engine and is very tunable. GM and RAM have some catching up to do. Maybe a new 454 or 440 hemi?
My F150 has a load rating of 2066 lbs., most likely upgrading to a F250 with the 7.3 Liter motor.
@@Schmitz3 I like what Ford did with that engine. It’s kind of old school with push rods instead of OHC. It’s less complicated even though it has variable valve timing. It’s designed to get decent fuel economy under load. An f250 with the 10,000 GVW package should give you over 3000 lb of payload
I’ve seen 1730 payload on a 2500 mega cab Cummins
What about adding bags and getting your truck recerted for the new weight capacity.
There are a lot of guys towing campers with 3/4 tons that are over there payload capacity they say it tows it fine yeah but should it be
We didn’t worry about this a lot in the 70’s and 80’s but then we had real c channel truck frames and under rated trucks. Nowadays the trucks are made from lightweight materials,maxed capacity for competition bragging rights. And much less competent drivers going way to fast.
Of course what this doesn’t cover is that the GVWR on nearly all 3/4 ton trucks is artificially limited in order to keep them in a certain weight category. When you look at their axel capacities it’s apparent that they are designed and engineered to carry heavier loads. But just like the F350 with the optional lower GVWR they are de-rated in order to keep them in a certain weight category.
It's a shame we have to search out the truth for every single thing. Thanks for sharing.
Even if the truck has the physical ability to carry/tow above the rated capacity - if there is an accident and the investigators believe the truck's rating ratings have been exceeded (as specified on the door jamb sticker) you may lose your insurance coverage - and if there is another vehicle involved you are in deep trouble...
@@johnf6579 ehhh no.
Insurance covers you drunk right?
As for legality of it feel free to cite a motor vehicle code that requires private non commercial operators to abide by all manufacturer recommendations.
That lawyer statement is pure bs. What do you think the term liability means in liability insurance. They literally cover you if it's your fault. They might raise your premiums or drop you after but that's the point of insurance, to cover you when you make a mistake.
@@johnf6579 Has this actually ever happened? Or is it an internet myth?
When I traded in my FordF250lariat ultimate I got a srw,f350 lariat ultimate crew 4wd it was less then a thousand dollars more than the 250
Well explained. Good info
Good video, sent to a friend who is looking at buying a 3/4 ton and fifth wheel trailer
Good plan. Most 5th wheels which can be towed by a 3/4 ton are tiny.
My 2022 Silverado 2500HD has a max payload capacity of 3553. GCVWR is 24,000.
Cue the "I've been towing 15,000 lb trailers behind my quarter-ton for 60 years" crowd.
I have a f250 6.2 gas payload 3000lb Towing capacity 16000lb on the bed... and I'm thinking I don't have enough truck.... 16k on 10k dry is a lot...
OK I listen very intently and I have a gas 6.2 with a speed transmission should I stay away from 5 wheels and for travel trailer instead
Just got a 2022 Ram 2500 gasser, I wanted the 6.7 but the payload on it was 1800, the gasser I got was 2990, doing a VIN search on the Ram web site found my truck combo to be 2990 payload and 16780 towable. So I got the Gasser. I have a Laramie Crew Cab short bed. If would of got the entry level tradesman, I would of had lot more payload and towable.
That is why these ratings are BS. No way that gas engine could or should be towing more. It may have a better payload rating but the Cummins will walk it all day long even being “overloaded.”
Here's we're I fuzz out the same spec truck with a lower gear rear end will have a higher tow rating, same brakes same tires same frame, gear ratio doesn't change anything but torque multiplication won't stop any shorter
Yep, you hit the nail on the head.
It would be great if JD would explain this....
Wrong. The multiplication works in reverse as well... otherwise, why does tow/haul down shift when you use the brakes.
I have a truck with 4.30 gears, and if you were coming from a 3.73 truck, or a 3.55 truck, you would notice that, when you let out of the throttle, it feels like the 3.73 truck downshifted in the way that engine compression and the pumping resistance against the throttle body slows the truck.
What about the Ford super duty trucks that come with a paper in the owners manual stating that the stated cargo capacity is after you account for 150 pounds in each seating position? In my truck that adds 750 pounds to the states capacity on my door sticker. Not a lot but still relevant.
How did you calculate the PIN weight? What is the formula?
Can't calculate this. Maybe estimate it based on your trailers GVWR. 20-25% of that GVWR is the allowed pin weight. Best is to load trailer to travel with all your stuff and drag it to a scale.
Hi btbrv hope you are having a great day I’m camping in my forest river evo it is nice here hope you have a good day
We have a 3/4 ton diesel Chevy and a 5th wheel with a hitch weight of 1876. Bought all last year...too late now!
Im looking at upgrading to a 3/4 ton truck, a dodge ram 2500.
How much gvwr or dry weight can I tow on a ram 2500 6.4 liter hemi? What size fifth wheels are towable?
From my research the payload is around 2,910 lbs, gvwr on the truck is 10,000 pounds.
Thanks
What year is it? I have a 04 chevy 2500hd 6.0 gas and it says the towing capacity is 12,000. Im also trying to figure out whats the most i can tow because i hear a lot of folks say they tow more than what the truck says it can handle.
I, too, want to thank you for making this video.
What do you think about the future of a hybrid 3/4 or 1 ton truck?
I hope they make it. If they can do in a super duty what they did with the F-150 but with a bigger battery for all electric driving, I would buy immediately.
It’s not what you can pull , it’s what you can control, and more importantly stop. I’ve heard guys say “police don’t check campers to see if your overweight”. They will when you can’t stop and kill someone. Then one of those injury lawyers come after you and when it’s proved you were illegally towing your camper (because you’d exceeded you vehicles weight limits) you’re in big trouble.
Can you cite an instance when this has happened?
It is very common for 3/4 and 1 tons to have exact same braking components.
Great description
Another great video JD. I always seam to have a difficulty NOT throwing my 2 cents out on this subject.
Okay, let's just say it's within the limits the manufacturer says is the max for a truck. Sure, it's got the same engine. It's falling within the weight limit of the manufacture specs but what does that 3/4 ton truck weigh? 2022 Ram is at 5988pds. Ford 6462 and GM 7886. Compare that to the 1 ton Ram 7326pds, Ford is 8133 and the Gm coming in at 8300 pounds.
What happens when a gust of 45mph wind surprises you from the side at 55mph or even faster? When a trailer weighs more than the leader and the trailer acts like a kite in the wind, having the weight in front makes a lot of sense....or am I wrong? Having the proper quantity of things running on the ground, keeping everything nice and straight helps a bit as well. Or am I missing something?
How about stopping? What if the trailer connection is lost like it has for me once or twice losing my trailer brakes? I was glad I had those extra set of wheels on the ground along with the weight to keep that thing behind me under control.
This is always my argument being the "Captain Dually" when it comes to this subject.
Going to the Grand Design web site that 278BH has an advertised hitch weight of 1338 Is that an empty or a full hitch weight? If it is not they should add a full weight to assist the consumer.
That is the dry or empty weight.
The would have no knowledge of what you are going to be putting in there.
Payload capacity is the single reason we upgraded to a dually about 5 months ago. In the last 2 years on the road full time we have seen too many accidents and I do not want an ounce of the possibility of being over weight if something should ever happen on the road.
Hi.. we are looking at some of the GD reflections.. I am trying to figure the right unit to buy (in the reflection) for a towing vehicle that I have.. for me I have a 2016
F 250 6.2 L V8 with a towing package, axle ratio 3.73. Now the spec show in tow to be around 20,000 lbs. The truck is 10,500 lbs. total weight. Thank you
Look at the door sticker.
Did you ever buy and tow a fifth wheel with your 6.2 f-250? How was it? I have the same truck.
For the weekend tow-warrior $10k for a 900lb diesel just doesn't make sense. The 3/4 gasser is the economical choice with payload snd tow margins where you need it for decent (safe) 5th wheel hauling.
I have a 21 f350 cc lb 4x4 7.3 gas 4.30 rearend, Monday I pick up a kz 363th12 toy hauler 5th wheel it is a 3 axle trailer with a dry weight of 11330 a dry pin of 2120 and a gvwr of 15240 which it will never see the only thing going in the garage is 2 high end mountain bikes that are sub 28 pounds each ,the payload sticker on my door sill is 3899 companion hitch is 140 me and wife are made 325 , I ain't asking and she ain't telling, anyway should be ok?
More great info JD. I hope people are paying attention and taking notes. This info could potentially save someone's life.
My 2019 F250 with the 6.2L, GVWR of 10k (upgrade option), 3266lbs cargo capacity and 4.30 axles (15k max tow), would be a good match for this RV.
Absolutely 3/4 ton truck can pull 40 ft triple axle toy hauler! Simple hack….just need to redirect headlights down to point at road.
Excellent video. We are buying our first trailer. We have a 2000 Chevy Silverado with a 7.4 litre vortex motor . The truck is a K 2500. What would be a reasonable trailer we could safely tow ? Thanks for any advice
Did you find out?
So if I have a F250 w/the 6.78L turbo diesel and per Ford chart the max weight is around 19k. How do I determine pin weight ect? Our ‘dream’ rig is an under 40 ft GD Solitude or something like that. TIA
The truck's payload rating is on a sticker located on the drivers door frame. First add the weight of occupants (600lbs), fuel (200lbs) and hitch (150lbs). Then take the pin weight rating of the trailer and add about 500 lbs. for batteries, cargo, propane , and generator. A 41' GD pin weight including the additional cargo is 3000 lbs. The trailers pin weight and truck cargo make a total payload of roughly 4000 lbs.
If trailering more than a couple of times a year and/or long distances many people would recommend an F-350 when reaching this kind of payload. I prefer to never exceed 80% of any/all of the truck and trailer capacities.
I live on a main rd and going by these trucks pulling rvs I bet way over 50% are over and i know it has been happening for yrs.i understand the safety factor but unless your pulling long distance I believe and it is happening daily u can handle these bigger rvs with less truck at short distance
I have a 2021 Chevy 2500HD Custom. Max Payload of 3601 lbs. Tongue weight 2490 lbs. Would this trailer be ok for me to tow?