I found it interesting how Jen came across as making derogatory comments about Kerry. I was expecting to dislike Kerry. Yet, Kerry appeared kinder and more candid on the stand.
It makes sense if Jen needs to try to discredit Carrie to protect herself and those she has an interest in protecting. Carrie is disposable to Jen, Jen used her for what she needed and then threw her under the bus. What these manipulative type people never realize is how easy it is for non-manipulative people to see through that
It felt like the defence was never given the chance to cross-examine her. I would have liked to see how she'd respond to being asked about what Jen said *she* said. I suspect it would either be totally denied flat out by Kerry, or we'd start seeing that same squirming Jen gave throughout her own testimony and cross. While Jen may have been using the supposed "horrifying" comment to discredit Kerry to the jury, it's still well within the realm of possibility to me that Kerry really did say it and is just better at hiding her feelings about Karen in this important formal scenario. Even so, I'm hoping Kerry really is just a nicer person who's not playing ball with the sad coverup attempt the rest of the witnesses and investigators are trying to slap together with spit and elmer glue sticks
Did Kerry actually admit she was suggesting John could be at the variety of ex-girlfriends houses, or did all that just come from Jen? The more I think about it the more it seems to me like Jen was just constantly stiring - possibly telling Karen things to make her jealous whilst acting like a friend.
Seriously. Why do these 40-60 yo adults (I'm 48) behave like they're in high school? Like all involved in every aspect of each other's lives and their kids' lives. Family, yes. I get it. But they're all so intermingled and in each other's business. Makes me wonder. 🍍😬
Of all the mysteries we are exploring in this case, this is the one that makes me stop and go: I can’t believe someone would do that, sounds truly horrible and who knows that much people you tolerate enough to deal with on a vacation?! I have so many questions!!
@@marie-evegoulet3229 Same! There were 60 people there and she had time to keep tabs on where John was and wasn’t? That doesn’t sound like a vacation, that sounds like a nightmare! I want to relax not worry about where everyone is.
The most I've vacationed with was just over 30, and that was partying in my late 20s, I don't even have 10 people I'd want to vacation with. Well, maybe 10, but that's maybe.
I'm starting to think the same way. I kind of feel like....Not only did Colin hate John. But, so did all the women in the Albert family/extended family. Something is afoot here and I don't feel it implicates Karen Read!
What a colossal waste of time the Sullivan sisters were (no offense to them; they seem like lovely ladies). The jurors won't even remember them when it comes time to deliberate. What can we expect next? Karen's third grade nemesis?
I think that Lally (at most) would use Karen's offer to pay for things as argument that she throws money at problems to make them go away and "look at her expensive lawyers" in closing. Otherwise, I don't see anything that could possibly be gained from these two women.
Well, it does show that Karen reads not this little innocent poor thing that all these other women are the mean girls… She’s a mean girl too apparently
@@lynngallagher7456 How so? I don't see mean girl from Karen. I think she over reacted in Aruba, but I don't know her history regarding cheating and people can be messy. That doesn't get me to mean girl and definitely no where near the charges she is on trial for.
@@sherrigamblin783even Kerri said he dated a lot and said didn’t know if he was bringing some rando. I think John was prob a great guy to his family and friends but I also bet he drank a lot and dated a lot of women
i don't think her testimony matters one way or another. i don't think much of anything the defense has said really matters one way or another to me at this point. Its the prosecution's time to be putting their case forward, and so far there's nothing there. I was expecting to see a reason this trial was brought by now.
This trial only happen because it was for money grab from the courts and lawyers and police officers involved believe it or not it's our tax papers money is paying for this nonsense no actual hard evidence of a law suit to happen. Thank the common wealth of Massachusetts for wasting our time on this charges brought against Karen. I'm still waiting for the hard evidence. All of this fodder is he said she said from both sides... Which is not enough evidence. The justice system has failed us.
If Murdaugh taught me anything, it’s that your phone tells on you for every little thing! So why didn’t they just track where Karen and John‘s phones were, and wouldn’t that show if John had ever gone inside 34 Fairview, and if Karen had moved her phone at a rapid speed in a way that could correlate to her backing up into John in her car???
Defense will be presenting soon. Just wait…it’s coming! When Jackson was asking her if her Apple Watch data was accurate she said yes to all of that but the Google search was wrong. Of course it was wrong to her because it didn’t fit her narrative.
Then you didn't learn from Murdaugh.....we learnt there that the steps don't make sense and we have no idea what a phone does when it's yeeted from a car. Does it turn on the screen or not? What movement does it register> We learnt that cell towers can't give you an exact location of the phone, let alone whether in the garden or the house. And basic physics tells us the phone won't detect movement of a car it is in - see relativity.
Laura Sullivan testimony is devastating. So gut wrenching. Also makes me resent the Albert’s and McCabes more deeply for their cold, self preserving testimony
@@basicallyno1722 no I agree with that, that was pointless testimony. I more just mean her explaining John’s character and seeing what a role he played in her life and the lives of her son and family. Just another reason Jen boils my blood; sitting on stand claiming they loved John and simultaneously whining about harassment
@ann5028 ohhh gotcha gotcha. Yeah John seemed like a great friend to have! Maybe not a great boyfriend but certainly a wonderful friend. I wonder if John had a lot of his own internal pain and masked some of that behind being the guy everyone relied on. He stepped up to SO many people’s plates! He moves outta Boston and into the suburbs so he could adopt his sister’s kids when she and her husband suddenly pass away. He steps up and becomes a great godson for his best friends child. So who showed up for him? He probably had so much sadness. Dead sister, dead brother in law, dead best friend (suicide). Cops see a lot of awful things too. Death, violence…and he seemed to drink a lot. Makes me wonder if he had a lot of feelings inside. To me, it appears that Karen tried to show up and help him out.
And Karen apologized to the little sister and offered to pay for the little sister's hotel room. Thats considered illegal by the prosecution and their witnesses. 🙄 @@basicallyno1722
@@ann5028 I saw her testimony as Lally wanting to pull at our and the jurors heartstrings and that’s why these sisters were chosen to testify. I don’t think that she entirely understood that JO would be kind and generous to his best friend’s son no matter who the mom was, especially under the circumstances of his passing. Yes, heartbreaking 💔 to ever lose someone and more so when it’s under those conditions, however I’m wondering if these sister’s took his grief over his friend and his generosity and kindness to his son as that he had a thing for them?? I personally don’t see that he would. He took his own family children as his own… that seems to have been his nature. Just a thought
I thought it was only $40, not that the extra ten changes much of anything. I am hoping they have employers that cover jury duty and still pay them ..this is going on way longer than originally experience. 🙏✌️❤️@browndog319
Jen seems to be loving all of it. Calling and running to people’s houses to discuss the crappy cover up, getting lies straight, configuring timelines, hoodwinking Karen into believing she’s her friend, then helps frame her for murders and testifies against her. She’s even going so far as befriending JO’s parents and family and feeding them lies. She feels important now that she’s ruined lives. It’s fun for her. Sad and sick as it is.
Too much damage to the body, and, only tail light broken. Home, owner sell house, gets rid of dog, cleans cell phone and upgrades, etc etc. they go to each other's homes for conference? With police, DO YOU ALL GET THAT. I SMELL A HUGE RAT.
@@gotlandia1588- To cover up the fact that they had something to do with his murder. To cover up the fact that John was in the house and somehow ended up dead outside on the lawn, but because Karen wasn’t there, they could use her as the perfect scapegoat. None of these witnesses have been able to prove that Karen backed up her car at all, not even once. Every time they talk about her car moving it’s always going forward.
I'm just going to say, under the best circumstances, that most men are not great at explaining their relationships with females, which can lead to misunderstandings. Partner's on either side say things they do not mean in arguments. Infidelities are rarely admitted to and not everyone agrees on what constitutes an infidelity, especially in early days of a relationship. Trips are hard, first trips as couples can be really hard. Secluded events/trips with a HUGE group that one partner has well established roots in can be excruciating. Relationships are difficult enough, but when you are surrounded by "friends" who constantly gaslight one half of the relationship, it's damn near impossible John had just lost his best friend, his sister, his brother-in-law, became an active godparent, and parental figure for his niece and nephew. The man was under IMMENSE PRESSURE.... Not to mention, navigating a NEW relationship with someone who has no roots in his family or social circle. BOTH John and Karen deserve some GRACE. 💔 NONE OF THIS makes KR outside the norm of human behavior, nor does it make her relationship with John toxic, nor does it make her a murderer. THIS IS LIFE. 🤷
You’re the most compassionate person on UA-cam, truly. Life is complicated, messy and quite difficult at times. Thank you for bringing some sense into this chat.
We’ve all had arguments or conflict where from the outside looking in, we would be saying/doing things that are unflattering, I’m sure. One conflict doesn’t define a relationship or speak to typical behavior. There’s not enough information to make sweeping judgments about their relationship. We can speculate and point out red flags, but without more information, we have no way of knowing - was this a one off or their typical pattern? People are too quick to jump to conclusions.
I thought I heard in the first few days that John and Karen dated before and reconnected during covid I think it was 2018 ish. John had reached out to her that would make the relationship not new but they never said why they broke up the first time please correct me if Im wrong…
@annettewright5213 -- I heard that briefly mentioned but as I have no knowledge of that earlier relationship, I couldn't even begin to speculate. We don't know how long ago that was, or the length or seriousness of the relationship, so we can't judge their most recent incarnation as a continuance of what once was. I'm sure we all know how much five, ten, or twenty years of life can truly change people. John and Karen's relationship, in its most recent form, as middle-aged adults with careers, life experiences, and two newly adopted teenage children, would have been very new indeed. It sounds as both were trying, with the weight of the world on their shoulders and who knows how much baggage, to create a family and home for those two kids. It takes incredibly brave and compassionate people to even attempt to do that. 💜
I’m stuck in Aruba! 😩 I don’t understand why this misunderstanding was such a big deal. Karen didn’t know anyone else…she eventually apologized. What a waste of time.
Yeah I was kind of curious about that since it seemed like Karen did try and apologize. I think that was big of her to admit she was wrong and try to make up for it. So apparently the little sister did not accept the apology? But big sister seemed to be satisfied with it. 😢
They make Karen look good 👍 even the lady from the store. Was WTF she was open-minded. This is a witch-hunt Emarasing the CW doesn't have anything on Karen. They know who killed John...
Carrie was definitely a likeable witness, her testimony felt genuine. Jen on the other hand... oh my lanta! When you are turning every question into a battle and an opportunity to sell your agenda, "we aren't liars, we have the facts", makes me question just who she is trying to convince: the jury or herself?
@@Alemaniaturquia I can see your point, there was a lot of things that fell in line BUT there were glaring contradictions. Like Emily pointed out, Jen said (I'm paraphrasing) "Karen told us to go to 34 Fairview because she knew John's body was there" vs Carrie "Karen said she left him at the Waterfall, Jen said 'no I saw you pull up outside of my sister's house' so Karen said 'we need to go there then'". It contradicted Jen's testimony, who is the jury more likely to believe? Carrie, the person testifying as to what she knew or Jen the person who added her own directive to the answer that wasn't the complete truth? And considering Jen testified to far more than just the search that was happening, it puts into question all of the statements Jen made that Carrie wasn't present for and did not testify on. If Jen didn't tell the full truth to paint a picture on this detail, what else in her testimony is she stretching the truth on? It's eyebrow raising for sure.
I can honestly see why the Mccabes and Alberts were all defensive and wanting to be extremely precise with the defense attorneys. There are some very strange things from the mccabes/Alberts, but at the same time the defense attorneys take any small thing they say about anything and twist it into something it’s not. There were things I found strange about Jen Mccabe’s testimony, but not giving the defense attorneys an inch to try and unwittingly back her into a corner on some details isn’t one of them.
@@Alemaniaturquia- I have a feeling that the defense will recall Carrie Roberts when it’s their case in chief. by then they will have brought in more evidence, text messages, emails, etc.
1:33:38 that did noting for me as a juror to move the needle.. Had I paid for a vacation to Aruba and my man spent all day drinking watching football. Then I walk around a corner and see him literally falling over/onto another woman who I never met if have asked who da faq is that too..
@@calliew311 this has been playing rent free in my head since I heard the Sullivan sisters! She treated the group to dinner the first night and this is how she’s treated?
I think what the fight in Aruba does show is that even at their worst, their go-to was verbal abuse or emotional manipulation, not violence. Nobody showed up with a cut lip, bruised arm or black eye. Karen didn't run over and grab Marietta by the hair or smack her across the lobby. They just seem to have been one of those couples that loved passionately and fought passionately and probably could have used some counseling. I believe Karen definitely had/has issues to work through, and John might have liked pushing her buttons or icing her out. That doesn't mean they were truly on the verge of a breakup, and it certainly doesn't make her a murderess.
I mean they were both single and I don’t believe ever married for a reason. We don’t usually jump to your cheating without someone giving us a reason to think it. If there has never been an issue with that in your relationship, you don’t usually jump to that conclusion.
@@lauraramsey905but remember Karen supposedly had a thing for Brian Higgins. Or so the rumor goes. So maybe both of them played stupid games with their relationship.
@lauraramsey905 -- Your comment speaks volumes in regard to your own insecurities and predilections than it does to anyone who is single, who has never been married, and who has never had children. I have sympathy for you.
While I agree that it doesn't make her a murderer, and I'm not even near a place where I think she is guilty, I think it's wild that people are skimming over the fact that multiple people are saying Karen had a tendency to be jealous and possessive, and possibly insecure. It is in no way normal to yell "who tf is that" in the middle of a hotel, in another country with other laws, no less. It also seems like she was trying to fit in by paying for things and make a good first impression (nothing wrong with that). Rn, it's not guilty for me, but it's still notable.
I mean it’s not considered super healthy behavior but I still don’t have enough to say that’s motive for murder. Not yet at least. Waiting for some aha moment
It’s a testimony to the fact that a lot of the prosecution’s witnesses still operate as if they are in a high school clique and live for gossip and senseless jealousy of other people. I’d like to think watching herself on live tv would force Jen to realize she’s still a 15 yr old Mean Girl…but she won’t. 🙄
The differences between McCabe & Robert’s testimony, MY GOD!! TBH, I was extremely disappointed at the fact that Robert’s did not chat our ears off. It almost feels like McCabe is the nosy, chatty Kathy & not Roberts. Roberts came off as sincere, credible, balanced… the total opposite of McCabe. As an only child, going on vacation with 60 people sounds like a nightmare.
I thought it was interesting that the older sister ASKED the younger sister IF she had an interlude with John. Seems like her sister felt she needed to ask instead of just assuming it was a misunderstanding on Karen's part.
I agree! I felt it was weird the sister asked because I would just “know” my sister didn’t do that. So…I felt it implicated the sister has it in her to be doing that.
My thoughts exactly!!!! I think alot of females found John as a great eligible bachelor and the way she acted on the stand, I could see her being flirty or trying to act like she was close to him to aggravate his girlfriend. Just her calling him Johnny.. NO one else has. And the way she smirked and looked at karen when she said F you back to her I felt a weirdness in her.
@@shannonmendozasmthe contempt for KR by lil sister is baffling (given not much insight) as it was 2 years ago and she should have known they were drunk. Also, why did big sister have to ask lil sister about 💋-ing after lil sister had said previously stated that KR was the worst. Wouldn’t you ask why KR sucks….?
If that is motive for murder then I guess everyone in my loud mouth Italian-Polish family has a motive for murder because everyone is basically shouting at and borderline threatening everyone for the entire time of every holiday and get-together. They show their love by talking shit to each other and there is a really fine line between consensual joking around in a deadpan way and straight up bullying, and from the outside it would be VERY easy to spin it in a sinister way. They better hope no one dies suspiciously or the investigators would have a field day with all the shit talking they all do to each other
@@sammurphhhhHHand not only that, but she kept being so angry about this trip long after they got home she then decided to run him over. Just not buying this.
It’s all the DA has to make the relationship look bad and try to plant that motive. So, yeah, not landing the way they hoped i’m sure. Just sounded like people drinking (again) and a misunderstanding. Karen was probably very embarrassed and wasn’t sure how to deal with it.
Just starting the afternoon. I’m sorry but IMO I must say my feelings. These ppl didn’t care about the victim nor KR 😢. They feel their lives are disposable. I’m sickened with the cover up by the family & LE. again just imo
Only real emotions I saw was from Carrie Roberts. I think Carrie Roberts hurt the prosecution more than she helped because she contradicted a lot of Jen McCabe’s testimony.
I'm with you. Except I feel strongly that it was a beat down by the teenager boys. McCabes, and Albert s. Thus the cover up. Not going to let their precious angels go to prison.
NO CROSS - Carrie told the truth. Defense is treating Carrie like a member of the O'Keefe family. Jen, unsuccessfully, did all she could to undermine Carrie's testimony.
@@dannsherstone1037 - I never said she didn’t. I just think they’ll be asking her more questions later when more evidence has been added to the case. Evidence that she would not have knowledge of right away.
I think the defense is drawing a clear line in the sand for the jury between those who they think are telling the truth, and those who they think are not. Not questioning her makes their stance on her testimony very clear when compared to other witnesses!
This trip to Aruba sounds like my own personal hell. 60 persons? Too much even if you know them and get along. But one where I basically know no one and have to be with them so much time of the day? Hell. Nightmare. The worst.
Women that depend on a man for things like childcare, attention, shoulder to cry on, etc...generally don't like the woman that comes into his life to take that attention away from them. I am sure they were concerned that they would lose those moments where John would focus on them due to their loss or whatever was going on. He was one of the "moms" in the group and they probably notice him pulling away to focus more on Karen, which he should have if he loved her and wanted a family with her. They probably miss that shoe discount.
I think some of the people in the case also resented Karen’s wealth. Like no one in this case seemed poor or struggling, but Karen had a splash of “f*ck you money” that the others didn’t appear to have. At the same time, she seemed more humble despite having more. One small thing that annoyed me was I felt like Jen was weirdly proud of having the Denali version of her GMC Yukon. The Denali edition is considered the luxury version of the Yukon, but there’s no reason to specify that in a trial unless you want it to be known that you have the nicest possible version of the Yukon.
Let’s say someone gets a lot of help/attention due to an illness (MS) and then there is suddenly someone else with that same illness, who doesn’t need/expect that…💥 Just to clarify, MS is absolutely different for every single patient ! I have a family member who suffers from it. All I want to say is that Illness does sometimes perpetuate jealousy and “martyrdom”…
The women call Karen a "babysitter with benefits" and talk a lot about John's ex's, and tell her he might even be with them while she's already hysterical, and say he was unhappy with her... but we are supposed to be shocked she might feel insecure and jealous of him being close to other (younger) women? Seems like all the women she was surrounded by barely tolerated her.
These grown women all acted like young teenagers. Their whole lives revolve around their husbands. I know the type and they're always jealous of a woman with freedom and money. They never grew up.
@@IzzyMarielare you serious, did you see their houses, and hear about their vacations. You are projecting, this has nothing to do with how successful she was or wasn't.
Love watching law with you because it's like a sport. No cross was a strategy and I think it WORKED. It made Jen stick out even more. Now I have MORE questions.
Kerry is driving in such terrible conditions with the Okeefe family, meanwhile Julie Albert is picking up donuts and taking it to the Albert’s because it’s their tradition. SURE
I really hope this gets mentioned in closing because it’s so weird to me! White out conditions, can barely see a few feet in front of you when driving, yet Julie’s like “I GOTTA get those donuts!!” and her husband is all “Damn right you do, get over there!” 😂
@@CoffeeWithKayli- No remember, Brian Albert said she brought coffee to the house. She said she left donuts in Brian Jr’s car. And not once did she see Jen McCabe’s car in the driveway.😐
Replay crew member here! Got into this trial because my best friend asked me to watch your streams with her. First trial and all I can say is WOW. it’s been fun to be here and watch from a jurors perspective (no outside media or info on the case) but also having a lawyers perspective and explanation on things
With the whole "i didn't say it to anyone because I wasn't asked" testimony from Jen McCabe, about Karen saying "I hit him, i hit him"..... I wish Alan would have pointed out the fact thats literally ALL she did the entire cross. Offer up information he didnt ask!! Such a perfectly missed moment! John O'Keefe really sounds like a stand up guy. The 2 sisters are the only ones who have shown genuine emotion about losing him.
A stand-up guy and great friend but maaaaybe not the most wonderful boyfriend. He seems like he’s definitely the guy you want on your side during the hard times, and a perfect person to laugh with during the good times.
John sounds like one of the most amazing people to walk this planet 🥺 he’s so selfless and present. Such a light was truly lost and it’s so disappointing how some of these witnesses speak about him. But we need ones like today to show how amazing he truly was❤
The jury has to go all the way back to leaf blower and Solo Cups in a Stop and Shop bags. Re-homed everything. Disappearing Jeep and an SUV everyone saw but no one saw drive fast, nevermind hit Officer John O'Keefe. 😳
Lally's going for a: The facts are confusing, the investigation was bad but John O'Keefe was a good person so throw his ex girlfriend in prison anyway or else there'll never be "justice" verdict. Sadly it was really easy to predict what he was doing from the start. It's nearly impossible to win a case like this as a defense attorney. This case would be a great teaching example to show how crooked prosecutors subvert justice so easily. Lally and the judge have pulled literally every single dirty trick they know. I mean every single one. It would be a really great thing if people knew how to spot this type of thing. You know so they can hold their elected officials accountable. Or if they ever see the same exact thing while serving on a jury know how to spot what is going on. If EDB wants to know why the defense didn't cross Kerry Roberts. It's because the judge kept out every piece of evidence they intended to use.
Replay crew here - regarding your question about no cross for Carrie Roberts, she seemed genuinely sincere and honest and matter of fact. No harm was done to Karen with her testimony. She seemed to really be affected by JO’s death, and the defense would not gain anything by cross examination, JMO. Love ya EDP!
That’s actually one thing I wouldn’t hold against her (Jen). Many people have significant information on their phones. It’s reasonable to limit the data to be evaluated.
@@ldisch2476 I agree, but also watch too many defense attorneys (and have seen too many trials) to hand over my phone without a search warrant. I strongly suspect I would upgrade my phone as well...mostly cuz of all the embarassing webtoons i read and comments i make on those comics 😬
@antonynryn what do you mean private? Jen said she was eating dinner with her children at the table while all could overhear Kerry “telling them everything.” What exactly was private??
Thank you for covering this!! We in MA appreciate being able to watch a recap with your expert comments daily! This is literally happening in our community, my husband drove past this home every day for work! SO ERIE!
I don’t know if I believe Marietta when she says she and John never had a thing. If that is true, though, then I think at least she wanted them to have one. The smile she had when asked about who John was to her, that side eye she gave to Karen when she said “she sucks”, and just all the little prissy looks throughout testimony. I would hate to have a loved one under her care. And idk what the women in this town are drinking, but they’re mean as hell.
It was interesting that her sister Laura had to ask if something happened between John and Etta instead of just knowing something like that wouldn’t happen. Also…she only saw John during the holidays or birthdays, she said. So…what older brother relationship does that support?
Oh for sure she had feelings about him. When she first repeated her Eff You response, she looked directly at KR and said it actually to her. At the time I remember thinking, that's wildly inappropriate.
I don’t believe she did it. I think he got drunk and women flirted with him constantly or vice versa. They were nosy and jealous and didn’t respect Karen and John’s relationship. Jen McAbee did too much for some reason and it has came back to haunt her
Has anyone asked why Jen and Carrie were getting together so much after this incident? Driving with each other to cops houses? Bc these ladies didn't even have each other's phone numbers before this happened. And in the aftermath they're together like they've been friends forever?
I hated every time Jen tried to say that she loved him. Or it was "a friend that they loved" because you could not hear love in her voice whatsoever like when the two sisters talked about John, or even Carrie. Not buying anything Jen is selling. The entire time she was on the stand she acted as if she was under trial and trying to justify why she shouldn't be. Suspishhhhhhhhh. I don't know that I'm convinced that there's this whole conspiracy against karen. I'm leaning more towards John maybe changing his mind about going in the house and then being hit with a snow plow... but I do think that Jen and the rest of the Alberts see this as a big inconvenience and that they have been getting a lot of hate for years so they're just trying to plow through [pun] this and get it over with so that they can get back to their lives.
I think it comes from Mrs. O’Keefe. She knows both of them and put them together. The family needs someone to be accountable and I think her saying to Karen, “you left him” gave her reason to suspect Karen.
@@noneya5824 it’s pretty easy to figure out how you feel when you think about if you heard a “confession” by someone you believed to have “killed” someone you love, would you keep that information from numerous investigators simply because they never asked that specific question? I know I sure as hell wouldn’t have waited to be directly asked and then just never tell anyone. That’s literally the only important information when someone dies, we heard 2 days of her bitching about what people are saying about her on social media (while simultaneously acting like she has never used her phone) and yet not a word as to why she kept a “confession” to herself other than her blaming being in shock and losing her memory due to trauma which makes anything she says need to be taken with a grain of salt since she blames everything she did or didn’t do on a lapsed memory
I still don't see a murder. I see an accident. And while I don't see a big conspiracy to cover up a murder, I do see a lot of people who didn't like Karen Read *personally* making some very dark assumptions.
I’m commenting so that you can come back to your comment after Brian Higgins testifies. You’ll see things a lot differently. Your jaw will drop multiple times during his testimony since he signed a Federal Proffer Agreement about that night, what happened and his role and others roles in the coverup!! This will be the turning point in the trial where so much comes together!😉
What Aruba has do to with Canton. If she wants to kill John she kills John in Aruba. Raise your hand if you are ever mad and or break something all couples argue. This doesn't make u murder. To me, this proved Karen was able to say sorry She even paid for everything. This a witch hunt. Are you telling me you don't interview the people where John was killed but u go to interview people from Aruba who had nothing to do with the case Defebse Classics they embarrassed THE CW
What has been proven: It was snowing; Canton PD is incompetent; the Alberts and McCabes are sus; John was a great guy. I'm not yet convinced about either side's theory of the case. The only evidence against Karen is Jen's testimony, and that was unconvincing at best. But the Alberts and McCabes being sus doesn't mean they are part of a cover up; there has not been enough evidence about that yet (although it is not yet the defence's turn, that might be interesting if we ever get to it at this pace).
Sounds like Karen may have been jealous and insecure of John’s many close female friendships (and perhaps the dislike was mutual). I don’t fault her for it, because we don’t know if there was infidelity in her past that left her with trauma. Jealousy is not getting me to murder. Also, I like how the defense doesn’t cross the likable/honest witnesses - the ones that clearly care about John.
John and Karen dated a long time ago and then they broke up, but for some reason in 2020 he reached out to her again. It also sounds like he liked to keep his ex-girlfriend nearby that couldn’t be healthy for their relationship.
The brother and SIL were clearly struggling. I cannot imagine how hard being that brother must be seeing the testimony of Jen McCabe and her band of merry assholes after having to watch the evidence collection in red solo cups and the grocery sac.
I'm just getting spoilers through the comments 😂. It feels as if the prosecution were defending the Alberts and Mccabea and not trying to prove Karen's involvement. It feels like this is Alberts vs read.
Did anyone else feel that John’s mother’s response of “and you just left him there!” was an indicator that she didn’t like Karen either? I get scared panicked mom mode, but her 47 year old adult son went to a party and doesn’t need a chaperone and she knows that. I think if she liked or loved Karen, she wouldn’t have immediately placed blame on her and maybe would have just asked more questions. Thoughts?
Agree. But also, keep in mind that John O’Keefe’s mom had already lost a another son and daughter-in-law suddenly and tragically. She was probably dealing with a level of grief that hopefully none of the rest of us will ever know, and was looking for someone to blame.
@@Tori_with_a_T I can see that. But his dad went through the exact same thing and would have the same amount of grief. He didn’t do any of that as far as we know. In fact, he immediately told his wife, who he knows way better than we do, to leave Karen alone. I know people handle trauma in different ways and that may account for the difference in their responses, but I think it’s possible that in that kind of mind frame, all of the niceties and politeness peels back and the real raw emotions and thoughts come out.
I think Jen McCabe got in her ear with a smear campaign, and in Carrie's, and his kids. She would think Jen would have no reason to lie, she trusted her.
I agree, it was an absurd comment, but then again, in tragedies like this people might search for a scapegoat. Karen was a convenient target for mom to direct her intense emotions.
I think she was shocked and reacted in anger. It happens, it is hard to tell without knowing the mothers personality. But didn't Karen say that she drove him to the house, he entered the house without her and he didn't come back so she drove away. So mother could ask the question regarding that situation?
I'm sorry but I feel like Jen thinks she can get away with anything if she stays vague enough. Her expression is I don't care while sitting on the stand. I find it hard to believe anything she says on the stand when she has to look at every single document since she supposedly can't recall anything.
Jennifer McCabe comes across as the biggest B imaginable. Anyone with any sense should stay away from her!!!! I hope the jury sees through all of these women.
The fact they did no cross comes across to me that they are sympathetic to the only person who seems to care about the life of officer john okeef. She came across as honest and grief stricken and nothing she said was detrimental to their case.
Having driven through the snow many times at night, looking out the front windshield while driving with headlights on has the worse visibility. The snow coming at the vehicle in your headlights makes it very hard to see, thus always use low beams. It doesn’t surprise me at all that looking out the back passenger window would have better visibility to the side of the vehicle.
Just a therory...John goes in house, goes to the basement to hang out, Chloe attacks John, John punches Chloe (which pisses everyone off), Colin hits John in the head with a weight bar and cracks his skull, they leave him there for a while wear he loses the missing 3 pints of blood, carries him out the back, while theyre carrying him his phone is sliding out of his pocket and when they drop him his phone lands before he does which puts him on top of it. They feel his pockets for the phone but dont find it so go back to the basement and still cant find it so Jen starts the back to back phone calls searching. All of it happening while Karens still waiting, hense why it looks like John left her hang, and while Julie was talking to her brother, hence why Julie was acting normal and why Ryan only seen Karen alone in the car with her phone in her hands. Jen and Matt take Julie and the other girl, Kaitlyn takes Colin and Chloe, hense why no dog barking when they find Johns body...just a theroy. I think they wanted John and Karen over there so Brian could work on Karen and Jen could work on John. Chloe attacking John and Colin flipping out on John ruined everything
LOVE my new tumbler. I didn't think I would be ok with the diamond texture, it was a risky purchase, but now that it's in my hand it's the BEST thing ever! Like a built in adhd fidget toy and is oddly comforting. The texture is just delightful and combined with my favorite multi-chrome paint job, I'm ridiculously happy :)
Who needs enemies when you have “friends” like these. If Karen is truly innocent she has lost so much. After Mrs Roberts the rest of the day was a waste. How did the judge allow this?
Many of her ex close acquaintances will never be close to her again, even if she is acquitted. This whole thing has done irreversible damage to her life.
@@doeb23 exactly she lost her boyfriend, his family, probably her job, her car, her friends/acquaintances etc. It’s just sad all around. She needs more people in her corner. I don’t know for 100% if she is innocent or not but either way I don’t think it was intentional or maliciously if she is at fault.
@@doeb23if they are real friends, you are friends through thick and thin. I wouldn’t want so-called friends who run from me because i was accused of something I didn’t do. If that’s a “friend”, I wouldn’t want those people in my life. Real friends get down in the trenches with you during the rough times too.
Karen ditched the kids the moment she could, even before they took John's body away. That's inexcusable. With a 'parent' like Karen a kid really needs good grandparents. The kids lost so much. Karen walked out on her responsibilities, she only wanted John. She deserves what she has. Nothing but money. And the whole world knowing what she is.
Now the word Everything is so different no after Carrie testified. It went from everything as a talker to EVERYTHING as in we have to get our story together to the t
I have to wonder if KR took some meds after she got to JO’s house and that could be the reason she didn’t remember. That could also explain her thinking she may have hit JO especially if JM put those thoughts in her head.
You’re truly amazing Emily! You had me laughing hard many times. Sometimes I ask a question and you answer it right then as if you’re reading my mind. & Thank goodness for the Zoomzoom!!!!
@@mini_skinny0296 YES!!! How awful to hear. On the flip side, Carry has been the best witness for the state so far. I am glad Jen let the jury know that was said. It made me not like her the moment she took the stand. So Jen did more harm than good for the state in my eyes
@pheebs818 Yes, I think they are bitches as I said and why I said it. I will not say 100% guilty or not guilty until I hear all the evidence. To say she was a babysitter with benefits is nasty. Especially when Karen was the one that home schooled them, set up trust funds, and took them shopping. The list goes on. Sadly, her messages to Higgins back that up when she says John's heart was not in it and how hard it was for her. Yet when the niece took the stand and lied about not being close with Karen. Karen and her team (despite her freedom depending on it) did not ask her about any of that. They also did not ask about the bday card she gave Karen ( in evidence) saying all the things Karen has done for them and what a great role model she was. This is because Karen actually gives a shit and is not willing to cause more pain on his loved ones. It was very obvious most, if not all of these women, that took the stand tried very hard to take shots at Karen. I do not know any of these people, nor did I have an option on the case, but from what I have heard so far, most of them are shady as hell. I do not hear anything to convince me Karen hit him with her car.
Master stroke not crossing Kerry Roberts. She said a couple things that supported the cw case, but directly contradicted important things Jen said. And didn't hear "I hit him!" They can point all this out in closing. I don't know what their thinking was, but it kind of looks like by not crossing they were sparing further hurting someone who actually seemed to care "the guy" was unalived. I haven't 100% given up on the cw, but oh boy, all I find I'm doing is trying think of a way their case could be true.
The 30-60 people trip reminds me why I no longer go on vacation with that many people. For at least 18 years we would go on family vacation from mass to Lake Winnipesaukee with my dads family every summer and I always hated it so now that the "kids" are getting married and having kids no way am I vacationing with 70-100 people so we sold our timeshare to one of the cousins who wanted it for her family and that week all the units were sold so it was easy to get someone to buy our unit
Replay crew what’s up?! What did we think of today? Interesting not to cross CR but maybe they think there’s no reason to come off overly defensive at a credible witness
Something I was just thinking about was that using the defence theory of conspiracy, Trooper Proctor could have only interviewed people he might have to cover something up for? Tbh not convinced by conspiracy, that will wait for the defences case, but something shady is going on based on the deleted information from the cell phone extraction.
The sisters testimony imo was a nothing burger… was expecting a history of violent behaviour towards John. To me it shows Karen got mad and then the next day apologized for it. How does this establish motive??? Had Karen been proven to be like AH I would be more inclined to believe the defendant is capable of such a crime. Make it make sense
People keep referencing the niece testifying and saying that they fought for 20 minutes and that JO wanted to break up with her. I wonder if that’s the whole story?
How many drinks with how much food? What is her metabolism? What is her tolerance? I don't understand how they could possibly know. And what are these cops doing letting everyone drive drunk? Driving drunk is inexcusable IMO.
It’s normal. My uncle who is a police officer is the worst driver I know. He drinks and drives along with all his police buddies :| I’ve seen all of them do it. It’s disturbingly common.
@@user-ww8bu6lv3u They are grownups, they can drink and hop bars, all they want-BUT then they have to *call an Uber/Taxi!!* They are not in the middle of nowhere…these people are arrogant and simply don’t care!
Ive been sanctioned twice. They've always took all my stuff from me immediately. And I had to wait until I was "checked-in" to call anyone. Check-in takes a while. After that then they let me look up a phone number in my phone. They let me call someone after, but I had to use their phones. So I dont understand them not taking her phone.
Honestly, can anything she wrote/said, after she was taken into the ambulance, even be up for debate?! Either she was “out of her mind” or she was falsely sanctioned! The CW can’t have it both ways…
I feel like his body was put on the lawn around 230am , if he was still alive then his body heat could have melted whatever snow had landed at that point , the heavy snow was later in the morning which covered him up , but i dont believe it was 4 inches , judging by what we can see on top of stationary vehicles
It’s almost incomprehensible. Compare this to past trials like Jodi Arias or even Murdaugh. For Jodi they were able to showcase months of dangerously obsessive and stalking behavior leading up to the ultimatum that if she couldn’t have Travis then no one could. Murdaugh still had some logistical questions, but it was clear that money and maintaining appearances were of paramount importance to him-probably enough to even sacrifice what he viewed as the most costly and high liability members of his own family. Here…after 40+ witnesses…we have a misunderstanding in Aruba and disagreements about name brand clothing and nail salons for his nephew and niece. The motive to kill is preposterously weak and underdeveloped even after all these weeks of testimony.
I want to know why mrs McCabe and Carrie Roberts acted like they were friends with karen until that night. Why would things change within hrs. Supposedly these women did not know what caused johns death at the time.
So Karen fucked up, completely owned it, apologised to the woman and her sister, and may or may not have paid for some of her room to double down on the apology?? Yeah, sounds like a real wench…..(hope the sarcasm is coming through). This sounds like the type of thing the good and stand up ppl I know would do.
If a man did the same would it be okay? I feel like she’s emotionally deregulated then buys flowers to apologise (I have problems with this behaviour).
@@BellaCarmeziayeah I think if anyone makes a mistake then owns the mistake, apologises, and takes action to try and make up for it then yeah I would be okay with it. If the behaviour is constantly repeated then that’s an issue. But all humans get dysregulated and say and do things they regret later. IMO I don’t see this as a motive for murder, which as Emily pointed out, is the reason the prosecution is eliciting this testimony.
The State has proven Karen Read is a saint for offering pay for that women's room. It sounds like "Johnny" wanted away from the both of them because something did happen, and valued Karen more than Etta.
She was a teenager and went and hugged a guy in his 40s (even though he was the godfather of her nephew, to me it seems a very bold gesture). I think she was flirting with him. The way she replied with a fck word to a more mature woman, the way she dropped f-bombs in court, when older people are not sure if they should censor themselves or just tell the exact words show her as a disrespectful person with poor boundaries.
is this the best the state can present ? show us the car details , show us how you the CW think jo was struck by a suv . this is horrible mean girl mentality today
They really should have called Kerry 3rd, maybe Jen 4th. I would have believed a lot more from Jen then. Well, maybe not cuz she was so evasive with cross. But Kerry has seemed very credible so hearing things from her first would have probably fiven more weight to Jenn saying similar things. And we wouldnt have all the info about the rehomed phones or dogs or homes or all the cross questioning everyones supposed movements and alibis and Jenn talking to everyone and wanting screenshots.
The effects of MS on both Karen and Jen are not being considered. A simplistic disregard for what may look like character defects may well have causative origins of a medical nature.
I will bet you that Jen McCabe was diagnosed with her “condition” after finding out Karen has it. That’s my opinion. She cannot stand a woman getting more attention than her. My opinion.
@lynngallagher7456 how does she drink a lot of alcohol?? We know of less than a handful of times she has drank. And she had no choice but to sit through court. With her having Ms and Crohns, she could very well have a colostomy bag. Or she is managed.
@@lynngallagher7456 I have a condition that makes me not like drinking because I get super sick from barely any alcohol, but if I were in some of these situations (like a vacation with 60+ people) with people who clearly don’t like me, I think I’d take my shitty symptoms from having drank over dealing with that bs stone cold sober
I believe Karrie Roberts. But I have just one question: She said under JOs body was just grass. How then did blood get all over the top of compacted snow that had to be uncovered by a snowblower? And what a weird place to find his phone. That seems more like someone stuck his phone under his body not that it flew out of hand or pocket if hit by a car.
Is it just me or did anyone else notice Jen McCabe always wanted or needed to refer to her previous statements to recollect events to make sure her story didn't change
I found it interesting how Jen came across as making derogatory comments about Kerry. I was expecting to dislike Kerry. Yet, Kerry appeared kinder and more candid on the stand.
It makes sense if Jen needs to try to discredit Carrie to protect herself and those she has an interest in protecting. Carrie is disposable to Jen, Jen used her for what she needed and then threw her under the bus. What these manipulative type people never realize is how easy it is for non-manipulative people to see through that
@@sammurphhhhHHwell said
Completely agree. I owe Kerry an apology cuz of how i thiught she was based on Jenn's testimony
It felt like the defence was never given the chance to cross-examine her. I would have liked to see how she'd respond to being asked about what Jen said *she* said. I suspect it would either be totally denied flat out by Kerry, or we'd start seeing that same squirming Jen gave throughout her own testimony and cross. While Jen may have been using the supposed "horrifying" comment to discredit Kerry to the jury, it's still well within the realm of possibility to me that Kerry really did say it and is just better at hiding her feelings about Karen in this important formal scenario.
Even so, I'm hoping Kerry really is just a nicer person who's not playing ball with the sad coverup attempt the rest of the witnesses and investigators are trying to slap together with spit and elmer glue sticks
Did Kerry actually admit she was suggesting John could be at the variety of ex-girlfriends houses, or did all that just come from Jen? The more I think about it the more it seems to me like Jen was just constantly stiring - possibly telling Karen things to make her jealous whilst acting like a friend.
Vacationing with 60 people sounds like my worst nightmare!😳🌴
I have a national meeting in a few weeks and I’m dreading it. It’s about the same size as this vacation!
@@browndog319don't tell lally
Seriously. Why do these 40-60 yo adults (I'm 48) behave like they're in high school? Like all involved in every aspect of each other's lives and their kids' lives. Family, yes. I get it. But they're all so intermingled and in each other's business.
Makes me wonder. 🍍😬
Full stop!
@@Alemaniaturquia 😂
I don’t even know 60 people much less have 60 friends who I’d wanna vacation with. I am amazed at that!
Oh heck….me neither. No thank you. 😵💫
Same lol 😂
Of all the mysteries we are exploring in this case, this is the one that makes me stop and go: I can’t believe someone would do that, sounds truly horrible and who knows that much people you tolerate enough to deal with on a vacation?! I have so many questions!!
@@marie-evegoulet3229
Same! There were 60 people there and she had time to keep tabs on where John was and wasn’t? That doesn’t sound like a vacation, that sounds like a nightmare! I want to relax not worry about where everyone is.
The most I've vacationed with was just over 30, and that was partying in my late 20s, I don't even have 10 people I'd want to vacation with. Well, maybe 10, but that's maybe.
Apparently every woman in Canton had the hots for John and hated Karen because he loved her.
Well between all the Albert’s and McCabes I see why
You know that for a fact? Wow.
@@lynngallagher7456 i guess you don't recognize hyperbole when you see it
I'm starting to think the same way. I kind of feel like....Not only did Colin hate John. But, so did all the women in the Albert family/extended family.
Something is afoot here and I don't feel it implicates Karen Read!
Yah but it has nothing to do with the accident .
We've had 40 witnesses and not yet heard from a coroner, pathologist, ME or MD. When if anywhen?
When if anywhen😂😂😂🩷
I was just telling my husband that it is not yet a fact in evidence that John is even dead lol it’s wild.
Every time they say Trooper Proctor, I hear Chupacabra...you're welcome. :)
Yessss!!!! I’m so glad someone else hears it that way too 😂😂😂😂
Noooooooo
Now that's all i hear
S A M E
Same same
EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. the first few times I heard them say his name, I couldn’t figure out what they were saying 😂
What a colossal waste of time the Sullivan sisters were (no offense to them; they seem like lovely ladies). The jurors won't even remember them when it comes time to deliberate. What can we expect next? Karen's third grade nemesis?
I think that Lally (at most) would use Karen's offer to pay for things as argument that she throws money at problems to make them go away and "look at her expensive lawyers" in closing. Otherwise, I don't see anything that could possibly be gained from these two women.
I mean really struggling to somehow defame her character. Really a reach
Well, it does show that Karen reads not this little innocent poor thing that all these other women are the mean girls… She’s a mean girl too apparently
@@lynngallagher7456 How so? I don't see mean girl from Karen. I think she over reacted in Aruba, but I don't know her history regarding cheating and people can be messy. That doesn't get me to mean girl and definitely no where near the charges she is on trial for.
@@sherrigamblin783even Kerri said he dated a lot and said didn’t know if he was bringing some rando. I think John was prob a great guy to his family and friends but I also bet he drank a lot and dated a lot of women
After Jen’s testimony I don’t think they will find Karen guilty. Too much going on with that family
i don't think her testimony matters one way or another. i don't think much of anything the defense has said really matters one way or another to me at this point. Its the prosecution's time to be putting their case forward, and so far there's nothing there. I was expecting to see a reason this trial was brought by now.
This trial only happen because it was for money grab from the courts and lawyers and police officers involved believe it or not it's our tax papers money is paying for this nonsense no actual hard evidence of a law suit to happen. Thank the common wealth of Massachusetts for wasting our time on this charges brought against Karen. I'm still waiting for the hard evidence. All of this fodder is he said she said from both sides... Which is not enough evidence. The justice system has failed us.
Her behavior raised red flags.
If Murdaugh taught me anything, it’s that your phone tells on you for every little thing! So why didn’t they just track where Karen and John‘s phones were, and wouldn’t that show if John had ever gone inside 34 Fairview, and if Karen had moved her phone at a rapid speed in a way that could correlate to her backing up into John in her car???
Defense will be presenting soon. Just wait…it’s coming! When Jackson was asking her if her Apple Watch data was accurate she said yes to all of that but the Google search was wrong. Of course it was wrong to her because it didn’t fit her narrative.
Good point. But I think what told on Murdaugh was the Fitness Apps he and Maggie had installed. Maybe Karen nor John used one of these?
Then you didn't learn from Murdaugh.....we learnt there that the steps don't make sense and we have no idea what a phone does when it's yeeted from a car. Does it turn on the screen or not? What movement does it register>
We learnt that cell towers can't give you an exact location of the phone, let alone whether in the garden or the house.
And basic physics tells us the phone won't detect movement of a car it is in - see relativity.
Laura Sullivan testimony is devastating. So gut wrenching.
Also makes me resent the Albert’s and McCabes more deeply for their cold, self preserving testimony
Laura Sullivan? But she adds absolutely nothing - it’s an irrelevant fight that happened in New Year’s Eve between individuals who weren’t even there.
@@basicallyno1722 no I agree with that, that was pointless testimony. I more just mean her explaining John’s character and seeing what a role he played in her life and the lives of her son and family. Just another reason Jen boils my blood; sitting on stand claiming they loved John and simultaneously whining about harassment
@ann5028 ohhh gotcha gotcha. Yeah John seemed like a great friend to have! Maybe not a great boyfriend but certainly a wonderful friend. I wonder if John had a lot of his own internal pain and masked some of that behind being the guy everyone relied on. He stepped up to SO many people’s plates! He moves outta Boston and into the suburbs so he could adopt his sister’s kids when she and her husband suddenly pass away. He steps up and becomes a great godson for his best friends child. So who showed up for him? He probably had so much sadness. Dead sister, dead brother in law, dead best friend (suicide). Cops see a lot of awful things too. Death, violence…and he seemed to drink a lot. Makes me wonder if he had a lot of feelings inside. To me, it appears that Karen tried to show up and help him out.
And Karen apologized to the little sister and offered to pay for the little sister's hotel room. Thats considered illegal by the prosecution and their witnesses. 🙄 @@basicallyno1722
@@ann5028 I saw her testimony as Lally wanting to pull at our and the jurors heartstrings and that’s why these sisters were chosen to testify. I don’t think that she entirely understood that JO would be kind and generous to his best friend’s son no matter who the mom was, especially under the circumstances of his passing. Yes, heartbreaking 💔 to ever lose someone and more so when it’s under those conditions, however I’m wondering if these sister’s took his grief over his friend and his generosity and kindness to his son as that he had a thing for them?? I personally don’t see that he would. He took his own family children as his own… that seems to have been his nature. Just a thought
That poor jury. Right now I'm sure they are wondering how they ended up on THIS jury.
They get paid $50/day. That won’t cover babysitting on full days of trial!
I thought it was only $40, not that the extra ten changes much of anything. I am hoping they have employers that cover jury duty and still pay them ..this is going on way longer than originally experience. 🙏✌️❤️@browndog319
I think that with every one of these wild high profile cases.
Right. They are probably thinking I came here for a murder trial, and now it’s a soap opera.🤨🫤
@@ravenzyblackI'm thinking the same thing as I did watching zachariah anderson this is BS show me something real
Jen seems to be loving all of it. Calling and running to people’s houses to discuss the crappy cover up, getting lies straight, configuring timelines, hoodwinking Karen into believing she’s her friend, then helps frame her for murders and testifies against her. She’s even going so far as befriending JO’s parents and family and feeding them lies. She feels important now that she’s ruined lives. It’s fun for her. Sad and sick as it is.
Her testimony: "I was horrified" Jackson: your next text was "I love it"... 😮 there it is.
Bingo bango
Absolutely I believe Jen loved all this.
You are so accurate
What else t she have to do with all her time?
The contrast between Jenn's "our friend died, it's hard for us" and Kerry's raw emotion for John and his condition is stark.
Considering that she calls herself a talker she is so on point with her testimony she is wonderful
Too much damage to the body, and, only tail light broken. Home, owner sell house, gets rid of dog, cleans cell phone and upgrades, etc etc. they go to each other's homes for conference? With police,
DO YOU ALL GET THAT. I SMELL A HUGE RAT.
The taillight was only cracked (according to Jen's early statements).
But what is their motive?
@@gotlandia1588- To cover up the fact that they had something to do with his murder. To cover up the fact that John was in the house and somehow ended up dead outside on the lawn, but because Karen wasn’t there, they could use her as the perfect scapegoat. None of these witnesses have been able to prove that Karen backed up her car at all, not even once. Every time they talk about her car moving it’s always going forward.
@@ravenzyblack Agree and Thank you very much for answering. Today I have catched up on this case/trial and now hopeing that justice will be served.
I'm just going to say, under the best circumstances, that most men are not great at explaining their relationships with females, which can lead to misunderstandings. Partner's on either side say things they do not mean in arguments. Infidelities are rarely admitted to and not everyone agrees on what constitutes an infidelity, especially in early days of a relationship. Trips are hard, first trips as couples can be really hard. Secluded events/trips with a HUGE group that one partner has well established roots in can be excruciating. Relationships are difficult enough, but when you are surrounded by "friends" who constantly gaslight one half of the relationship, it's damn near impossible
John had just lost his best friend, his sister, his brother-in-law, became an active godparent, and parental figure for his niece and nephew. The man was under IMMENSE PRESSURE.... Not to mention, navigating a NEW relationship with someone who has no roots in his family or social circle.
BOTH John and Karen deserve some GRACE. 💔
NONE OF THIS makes KR outside the norm of human behavior, nor does it make her relationship with John toxic, nor does it make her a murderer. THIS IS LIFE. 🤷
You’re the most compassionate person on UA-cam, truly. Life is complicated, messy and quite difficult at times. Thank you for bringing some sense into this chat.
We’ve all had arguments or conflict where from the outside looking in, we would be saying/doing things that are unflattering, I’m sure. One conflict doesn’t define a relationship or speak to typical behavior. There’s not enough information to make sweeping judgments about their relationship. We can speculate and point out red flags, but without more information, we have no way of knowing - was this a one off or their typical pattern? People are too quick to jump to conclusions.
I thought I heard in the first few days that John and Karen dated before and reconnected during covid I think it was 2018 ish. John had reached out to her that would make the relationship not new but they never said why they broke up the first time please correct me if Im wrong…
@annettewright5213 -- I heard that briefly mentioned but as I have no knowledge of that earlier relationship, I couldn't even begin to speculate. We don't know how long ago that was, or the length or seriousness of the relationship, so we can't judge their most recent incarnation as a continuance of what once was. I'm sure we all know how much five, ten, or twenty years of life can truly change people.
John and Karen's relationship, in its most recent form, as middle-aged adults with careers, life experiences, and two newly adopted teenage children, would have been very new indeed.
It sounds as both were trying, with the weight of the world on their shoulders and who knows how much baggage, to create a family and home for those two kids.
It takes incredibly brave and compassionate people to even attempt to do that. 💜
@user-ww8bu6lv3u -- Thank you for your kind words, they made my day. 💜 I have my moments but am deeply flawed like everyone else.
I’m stuck in Aruba! 😩 I don’t understand why this misunderstanding was such a big deal. Karen didn’t know anyone else…she eventually apologized. What a waste of time.
The little sister did still seem big mad about it though 😂
@@lauraramsey905Completely! She even glared at Karen 😂. Get a grip
Yeah I was kind of curious about that since it seemed like Karen did try and apologize. I think that was big of her to admit she was wrong and try to make up for it. So apparently the little sister did not accept the apology? But big sister seemed to be satisfied with it. 😢
@@coricoo_247
Oh I think little sister wanted more than an apology and not from Karen. She was so mad she was breathing heavily.
They make Karen look good 👍 even the lady from the store. Was WTF she was open-minded. This is a witch-hunt Emarasing the CW doesn't have anything on Karen. They know who killed John...
Plot twist: Kerry Roberts is going to be called by the Defence
Oooooh interesting. The lack of cross read to me like they endorsed her testimony as truth
I expect a recall.
Yes! She was the only sober that day and sounded truthful
I was wondering this too.
I also believe I saw somewhere that JO’s dad was going to testify for the defense!
Canton PD: Where gossip is investigation!
Watching Emily lose her mind over lally is making me laugh so hard I'm crying 😂😂😂 thank you Emily
That's the only reason to watch trials with Emily 😊❤
The only way to survive these trials!! I feel for the jury not having her
Carrie was definitely a likeable witness, her testimony felt genuine.
Jen on the other hand... oh my lanta! When you are turning every question into a battle and an opportunity to sell your agenda, "we aren't liars, we have the facts", makes me question just who she is trying to convince: the jury or herself?
💯💯💯💯💯
No her testimony was a copy of JM in an sifter voice Reason's defense went bye., ..no wasting time in the useless witness
@@Alemaniaturquia I can see your point, there was a lot of things that fell in line BUT there were glaring contradictions. Like Emily pointed out, Jen said (I'm paraphrasing) "Karen told us to go to 34 Fairview because she knew John's body was there" vs Carrie "Karen said she left him at the Waterfall, Jen said 'no I saw you pull up outside of my sister's house' so Karen said 'we need to go there then'". It contradicted Jen's testimony, who is the jury more likely to believe? Carrie, the person testifying as to what she knew or Jen the person who added her own directive to the answer that wasn't the complete truth?
And considering Jen testified to far more than just the search that was happening, it puts into question all of the statements Jen made that Carrie wasn't present for and did not testify on. If Jen didn't tell the full truth to paint a picture on this detail, what else in her testimony is she stretching the truth on? It's eyebrow raising for sure.
I can honestly see why the Mccabes and Alberts were all defensive and wanting to be extremely precise with the defense attorneys. There are some very strange things from the mccabes/Alberts, but at the same time the defense attorneys take any small thing they say about anything and twist it into something it’s not. There were things I found strange about Jen Mccabe’s testimony, but not giving the defense attorneys an inch to try and unwittingly back her into a corner on some details isn’t one of them.
@@Alemaniaturquia- I have a feeling that the defense will recall Carrie Roberts when it’s their case in chief. by then they will have brought in more evidence, text messages, emails, etc.
1:33:38 that did noting for me as a juror to move the needle..
Had I paid for a vacation to Aruba and my man spent all day drinking watching football. Then I walk around a corner and see him literally falling over/onto another woman who I never met if have asked who da faq is that too..
I agree
I agree also
In that manner? Really?
That’s what I said and she probably saw them earlier on that day when they talked at the pool. No introductions to who the lil sis was smh
Karen’s mistake was going to Aruba on a vacation for 60 people. She probably did it for the kids.
EXACTLY! 🎯 No exclusive first trip goes well with a large group of people only one partner has well established roots in.
She probably literally PAID for it too.
@@calliew311 this has been playing rent free in my head since I heard the Sullivan sisters! She treated the group to dinner the first night and this is how she’s treated?
Probably didnt trust him so had to go
@@jackmanjack211 John made out with that girls sister in Aruba?
I think what the fight in Aruba does show is that even at their worst, their go-to was verbal abuse or emotional manipulation, not violence. Nobody showed up with a cut lip, bruised arm or black eye. Karen didn't run over and grab Marietta by the hair or smack her across the lobby. They just seem to have been one of those couples that loved passionately and fought passionately and probably could have used some counseling. I believe Karen definitely had/has issues to work through, and John might have liked pushing her buttons or icing her out. That doesn't mean they were truly on the verge of a breakup, and it certainly doesn't make her a murderess.
I mean they were both single and I don’t believe ever married for a reason. We don’t usually jump to your cheating without someone giving us a reason to think it. If there has never been an issue with that in your relationship, you don’t usually jump to that conclusion.
@@lauraramsey905but remember Karen supposedly had a thing for Brian Higgins. Or so the rumor goes. So maybe both of them played stupid games with their relationship.
@lauraramsey905 -- Your comment speaks volumes in regard to your own insecurities and predilections than it does to anyone who is single, who has never been married, and who has never had children.
I have sympathy for you.
While I agree that it doesn't make her a murderer, and I'm not even near a place where I think she is guilty, I think it's wild that people are skimming over the fact that multiple people are saying Karen had a tendency to be jealous and possessive, and possibly insecure. It is in no way normal to yell "who tf is that" in the middle of a hotel, in another country with other laws, no less. It also seems like she was trying to fit in by paying for things and make a good first impression (nothing wrong with that). Rn, it's not guilty for me, but it's still notable.
I mean it’s not considered super healthy behavior but I still don’t have enough to say that’s motive for murder. Not yet at least. Waiting for some aha moment
I am on replay crew....the Aruba trip is gossip. I find it disgusting that there is so much gossip in this trial. I think it is a reach for motive.
It’s a testimony to the fact that a lot of the prosecution’s witnesses still operate as if they are in a high school clique and live for gossip and senseless jealousy of other people. I’d like to think watching herself on live tv would force Jen to realize she’s still a 15 yr old Mean Girl…but she won’t. 🙄
Exactly. Making the Sullivan sisters be retraumatized by this for literally 0 gain is what makes this so baffling and a waste of half a day
Totally unrelated, but I can’t imagine anything worse than being on holiday with 60+ people 😱
Same.
I don’t care if it’s Aruba. I’m staying home.😂
I love that I can fast forward through Lally
The differences between McCabe & Robert’s testimony, MY GOD!!
TBH, I was extremely disappointed at the fact that Robert’s did not chat our ears off. It almost feels like McCabe is the nosy, chatty Kathy & not Roberts. Roberts came off as sincere, credible, balanced… the total opposite of McCabe.
As an only child, going on vacation with 60 people sounds like a nightmare.
Yes, that vacation is a nightmare!…….
Lots of projection going on with Jen.
@@Christine__D I agree!
But didn't she admitted she is a chatty person?
I thought it was interesting that the older sister ASKED the younger sister IF she had an interlude with John. Seems like her sister felt she needed to ask instead of just assuming it was a misunderstanding on Karen's part.
I agree! I felt it was weird the sister asked because I would just “know” my sister didn’t do that. So…I felt it implicated the sister has it in her to be doing that.
My thoughts exactly!!!! I think alot of females found John as a great eligible bachelor and the way she acted on the stand, I could see her being flirty or trying to act like she was close to him to aggravate his girlfriend. Just her calling him Johnny.. NO one else has. And the way she smirked and looked at karen when she said F you back to her I felt a weirdness in her.
@@shannonmendozasmthe contempt for KR by lil sister is baffling (given not much insight) as it was 2 years ago and she should have known they were drunk. Also, why did big sister have to ask lil sister about 💋-ing after lil sister had said previously stated that KR was the worst. Wouldn’t you ask why KR sucks….?
This Aruba testimony was a big nothing burger. 🍔
Agreed
There is a lot of "trying to make fetch happen" on both sides of this trial. It is exhausting. 😮💨
If that is motive for murder then I guess everyone in my loud mouth Italian-Polish family has a motive for murder because everyone is basically shouting at and borderline threatening everyone for the entire time of every holiday and get-together. They show their love by talking shit to each other and there is a really fine line between consensual joking around in a deadpan way and straight up bullying, and from the outside it would be VERY easy to spin it in a sinister way. They better hope no one dies suspiciously or the investigators would have a field day with all the shit talking they all do to each other
@@sammurphhhhHHand not only that, but she kept being so angry about this trip long after they got home she then decided to run him over. Just not buying this.
It’s all the DA has to make the relationship look bad and try to plant that motive. So, yeah, not landing the way they hoped i’m sure. Just sounded like people drinking (again) and a misunderstanding. Karen was probably very embarrassed and wasn’t sure how to deal with it.
Just starting the afternoon. I’m sorry but IMO I must say my feelings. These ppl didn’t care about the victim nor KR 😢. They feel their lives are disposable. I’m sickened with the cover up by the family & LE. again just imo
Only real emotions I saw was from Carrie Roberts. I think Carrie Roberts hurt the prosecution more than she helped because she contradicted a lot of Jen McCabe’s testimony.
Today. CW makes Karen more likable Witch hunt
I'm with you. Except I feel strongly that it was a beat down by the teenager boys. McCabes, and Albert s. Thus the cover up. Not going to let their precious angels go to prison.
NO CROSS - Carrie told the truth. Defense is treating Carrie like a member of the O'Keefe family. Jen, unsuccessfully, did all she could to undermine Carrie's testimony.
I have a feeling she’ll be called during the Defense’s Case in Chief.
@@ravenzyblack I don't think so. I think she told the truth.
@@dannsherstone1037 - I never said she didn’t. I just think they’ll be asking her more questions later when more evidence has been added to the case. Evidence that she would not have knowledge of right away.
I think the defense is drawing a clear line in the sand for the jury between those who they think are telling the truth, and those who they think are not. Not questioning her makes their stance on her testimony very clear when compared to other witnesses!
Agree, I have been thinking that too.
Oh good point! Agree!
Yes. The stark difference between: 1)Jen calling her a motor mouth & 2) listening to her speak concisely. Speaks volumes about authenticity.
I think it also highlights the defense witnesses whose testimony seems to mostly support the defense's case.
I agree
This trip to Aruba sounds like my own personal hell. 60 persons? Too much even if you know them and get along. But one where I basically know no one and have to be with them so much time of the day? Hell. Nightmare. The worst.
Women that depend on a man for things like childcare, attention, shoulder to cry on, etc...generally don't like the woman that comes into his life to take that attention away from them. I am sure they were concerned that they would lose those moments where John would focus on them due to their loss or whatever was going on. He was one of the "moms" in the group and they probably notice him pulling away to focus more on Karen, which he should have if he loved her and wanted a family with her. They probably miss that shoe discount.
I think some of the people in the case also resented Karen’s wealth. Like no one in this case seemed poor or struggling, but Karen had a splash of “f*ck you money” that the others didn’t appear to have. At the same time, she seemed more humble despite having more. One small thing that annoyed me was I felt like Jen was weirdly proud of having the Denali version of her GMC Yukon. The Denali edition is considered the luxury version of the Yukon, but there’s no reason to specify that in a trial unless you want it to be known that you have the nicest possible version of the Yukon.
@@ChristopherMichael180 Exactly right!
And they probably don’t like her because she didn’t have kids. For some reason, it’s an affront to people who do.
Let’s say someone gets a lot of help/attention due to an illness (MS) and then there is suddenly someone else with that same illness, who doesn’t need/expect that…💥
Just to clarify, MS is absolutely different for every single patient ! I have a family member who suffers from it.
All I want to say is that Illness does sometimes perpetuate jealousy and “martyrdom”…
Exactly what I was thinking.
The women call Karen a "babysitter with benefits" and talk a lot about John's ex's, and tell her he might even be with them while she's already hysterical, and say he was unhappy with her... but we are supposed to be shocked she might feel insecure and jealous of him being close to other (younger) women? Seems like all the women she was surrounded by barely tolerated her.
And don’t you wonder why?
These grown women all acted like young teenagers. Their whole lives revolve around their husbands. I know the type and they're always jealous of a woman with freedom and money. They never grew up.
@@enigma_-_79 we know why. She was more successful than all of their husbands combined.
You're just making excuses for someone who was already a jealous person.
@@IzzyMarielare you serious, did you see their houses, and hear about their vacations. You are projecting, this has nothing to do with how successful she was or wasn't.
A vacation with 60 acquaintances? Just no. No, no, no, no, NO!!
100 times now 1000 times now nope nope
When she said they had a reservation for 40 people one night i had immediate anxiety harkening back to my waitress days.
That’s not a vacation
Love watching law with you because it's like a sport. No cross was a strategy and I think it WORKED. It made Jen stick out even more. Now I have MORE questions.
Kerry is driving in such terrible conditions with the Okeefe family, meanwhile Julie Albert is picking up donuts and taking it to the Albert’s because it’s their tradition. SURE
I really hope this gets mentioned in closing because it’s so weird to me! White out conditions, can barely see a few feet in front of you when driving, yet Julie’s like “I GOTTA get those donuts!!” and her husband is all “Damn right you do, get over there!” 😂
I almost forgot about the doughnuts and maybe/allegedly *coffee* , Julie Albert wanted to leave in Brian Jr’s *open* car…!
@@soude85dropping off said ~coffee~ into his CAR in the middle of a BLIZZARD instead of taking the coffee in the house where it wouldn’t freeze 🧐
😂😂😂😂
@@CoffeeWithKayli- No remember, Brian Albert said she brought coffee to the house. She said she left donuts in Brian Jr’s car. And not once did she see Jen McCabe’s car in the driveway.😐
Replay crew member here! Got into this trial because my best friend asked me to watch your streams with her. First trial and all I can say is WOW. it’s been fun to be here and watch from a jurors perspective (no outside media or info on the case) but also having a lawyers perspective and explanation on things
With the whole "i didn't say it to anyone because I wasn't asked" testimony from Jen McCabe, about Karen saying "I hit him, i hit him"..... I wish Alan would have pointed out the fact thats literally ALL she did the entire cross. Offer up information he didnt ask!! Such a perfectly missed moment!
John O'Keefe really sounds like a stand up guy. The 2 sisters are the only ones who have shown genuine emotion about losing him.
And Carrie
@@KKonUA-cam yes! I actually missed part of her testimony. I rewatched it and yes she absolutely cared too.
Where did she think she was going for the Grand Jury? Or to court this week?
A stand-up guy and great friend but maaaaybe not the most wonderful boyfriend. He seems like he’s definitely the guy you want on your side during the hard times, and a perfect person to laugh with during the good times.
John's brother and SIL,and the Roberts all seem genuinely devastated.
John sounds like one of the most amazing people to walk this planet 🥺 he’s so selfless and present. Such a light was truly lost and it’s so disappointing how some of these witnesses speak about him. But we need ones like today to show how amazing he truly was❤
The jury has to go all the way back to leaf blower and Solo Cups in a Stop and Shop bags. Re-homed everything. Disappearing Jeep and an SUV everyone saw but no one saw drive fast, nevermind hit Officer John O'Keefe. 😳
Lally's going for a: The facts are confusing, the investigation was bad but John O'Keefe was a good person so throw his ex girlfriend in prison anyway or else there'll never be "justice" verdict.
Sadly it was really easy to predict what he was doing from the start. It's nearly impossible to win a case like this as a defense attorney.
This case would be a great teaching example to show how crooked prosecutors subvert justice so easily. Lally and the judge have pulled literally every single dirty trick they know. I mean every single one.
It would be a really great thing if people knew how to spot this type of thing. You know so they can hold their elected officials accountable. Or if they ever see the same exact thing while serving on a jury know how to spot what is going on.
If EDB wants to know why the defense didn't cross Kerry Roberts. It's because the judge kept out every piece of evidence they intended to use.
The strange part is every time they talked about Karen’s car. It was always always moving forward, never in reverse.
Replay crew here - regarding your question about no cross for Carrie Roberts, she seemed genuinely sincere and honest and matter of fact. No harm was done to Karen with her testimony. She seemed to really be affected by JO’s death, and the defense would not gain anything by cross examination, JMO. Love ya EDP!
I think her giving her phone over without any restrictions or deletions, makes Jen handing over her phone with exceptions, looks sketchier. JMHO.
3 of her children were under 16 so I think it is reasonable to keep any comments they may have made private as they were not at the house.
Exactly💯
That’s actually one thing I wouldn’t hold against her (Jen).
Many people have significant information on their phones. It’s reasonable to limit the data to be evaluated.
@@ldisch2476 I agree, but also watch too many defense attorneys (and have seen too many trials) to hand over my phone without a search warrant. I strongly suspect I would upgrade my phone as well...mostly cuz of all the embarassing webtoons i read and comments i make on those comics 😬
@antonynryn what do you mean private? Jen said she was eating dinner with her children at the table while all could overhear Kerry “telling them everything.” What exactly was private??
Thank you for covering this!! We in MA appreciate being able to watch a recap with your expert comments daily! This is literally happening in our community, my husband drove past this home every day for work! SO ERIE!
Love they are giving life to John’s life.
John sounds like he was a wonderful man.
"Honey, we'll go on holiday with like, 60 friends." "Ok, Let me just shed this mortal coil real quick because that sounds rediculous".
Omgomgomg! This! 😂😂😂
I'm glad his brother is seeing the trial. He is watching everything.
Yes, and I hope his opinion changes.
@@lolly_6184 His demeanour has definitely changed already…
I don’t see where his demeanor has changed at all. All he does is stare daggers at Karen all day.
@@greeneyedsoutherngirl6468 me neither. Hes awful.
I don’t know if I believe Marietta when she says she and John never had a thing. If that is true, though, then I think at least she wanted them to have one. The smile she had when asked about who John was to her, that side eye she gave to Karen when she said “she sucks”, and just all the little prissy looks throughout testimony. I would hate to have a loved one under her care. And idk what the women in this town are drinking, but they’re mean as hell.
It was interesting that her sister Laura had to ask if something happened between John and Etta instead of just knowing something like that wouldn’t happen. Also…she only saw John during the holidays or birthdays, she said. So…what older brother relationship does that support?
Oh for sure she had feelings about him. When she first repeated her Eff You response, she looked directly at KR and said it actually to her. At the time I remember thinking, that's wildly inappropriate.
Yeah I feel like an older brother/friend figure you admire can get a little flirty sometimes…
I don’t believe she did it. I think he got drunk and women flirted with him constantly or vice versa. They were nosy and jealous and didn’t respect Karen and John’s relationship. Jen McAbee did too much for some reason and it has came back to haunt her
I think JO was having an affair with Jenn McCabe and her hubby found and and they needed to get rid of him.
Has anyone asked why Jen and Carrie were getting together so much after this incident? Driving with each other to cops houses? Bc these ladies didn't even have each other's phone numbers before this happened. And in the aftermath they're together like they've been friends forever?
I wish they’d have asked that! I wondered too. Jen seems to have been manipulating her.
Yes they claim they were trying to put it all together because someone they loved died . I don't know what I believe about that
I hated every time Jen tried to say that she loved him. Or it was "a friend that they loved" because you could not hear love in her voice whatsoever like when the two sisters talked about John, or even Carrie. Not buying anything Jen is selling. The entire time she was on the stand she acted as if she was under trial and trying to justify why she shouldn't be. Suspishhhhhhhhh.
I don't know that I'm convinced that there's this whole conspiracy against karen. I'm leaning more towards John maybe changing his mind about going in the house and then being hit with a snow plow... but I do think that Jen and the rest of the Alberts see this as a big inconvenience and that they have been getting a lot of hate for years so they're just trying to plow through [pun] this and get it over with so that they can get back to their lives.
I think it comes from Mrs. O’Keefe. She knows both of them and put them together. The family needs someone to be accountable and I think her saying to Karen, “you left him” gave her reason to suspect Karen.
@@noneya5824 it’s pretty easy to figure out how you feel when you think about if you heard a “confession” by someone you believed to have “killed” someone you love, would you keep that information from numerous investigators simply because they never asked that specific question? I know I sure as hell wouldn’t have waited to be directly asked and then just never tell anyone. That’s literally the only important information when someone dies, we heard 2 days of her bitching about what people are saying about her on social media (while simultaneously acting like she has never used her phone) and yet not a word as to why she kept a “confession” to herself other than her blaming being in shock and losing her memory due to trauma which makes anything she says need to be taken with a grain of salt since she blames everything she did or didn’t do on a lapsed memory
I still don't see a murder. I see an accident. And while I don't see a big conspiracy to cover up a murder, I do see a lot of people who didn't like Karen Read *personally* making some very dark assumptions.
I’m commenting so that you can come back to your comment after Brian Higgins testifies. You’ll see things a lot differently. Your jaw will drop multiple times during his testimony since he signed a Federal Proffer Agreement about that night, what happened and his role and others roles in the coverup!! This will be the turning point in the trial where so much comes together!😉
I am commenting on this because it seems youve not been paying attention!
What Aruba has do to with Canton. If she wants to kill John she kills John in Aruba. Raise your hand if you are ever mad and or break something all couples argue. This doesn't make u murder. To me, this proved Karen was able to say sorry She even paid for everything. This a witch hunt. Are you telling me you don't interview the people where John was killed but u go to interview people from Aruba who had nothing to do with the case Defebse Classics they embarrassed THE CW
What has been proven: It was snowing; Canton PD is incompetent; the Alberts and McCabes are sus; John was a great guy.
I'm not yet convinced about either side's theory of the case. The only evidence against Karen is Jen's testimony, and that was unconvincing at best. But the Alberts and McCabes being sus doesn't mean they are part of a cover up; there has not been enough evidence about that yet (although it is not yet the defence's turn, that might be interesting if we ever get to it at this pace).
@@Stiflers__Momcount me in.
Sounds like Karen may have been jealous and insecure of John’s many close female friendships (and perhaps the dislike was mutual). I don’t fault her for it, because we don’t know if there was infidelity in her past that left her with trauma. Jealousy is not getting me to murder.
Also, I like how the defense doesn’t cross the likable/honest witnesses - the ones that clearly care about John.
John and Karen dated a long time ago and then they broke up, but for some reason in 2020 he reached out to her again. It also sounds like he liked to keep his ex-girlfriend nearby that couldn’t be healthy for their relationship.
This is the first time I have seen any compassion for John.
The brother and SIL were clearly struggling. I cannot imagine how hard being that brother must be seeing the testimony of Jen McCabe and her band of merry assholes after having to watch the evidence collection in red solo cups and the grocery sac.
I'm just getting spoilers through the comments 😂. It feels as if the prosecution were defending the Alberts and Mccabea and not trying to prove Karen's involvement. It feels like this is Alberts vs read.
That's EXACTLY what it feels like during trial
Its how we deal with Lally
This is EXACTLY what it feels like to
Lally can we please get a breakdown of the breakfast in aruba 🧐 and also what about the weather there 🏝️
Who was sitting where in the pool?🥴
Was it snowing and if any how much?
I know it's not testimony related, but I'm BLOWN away that Etta & Laura are 10 years apart. They both look the same age with fabulous skin!
Did anyone else feel that John’s mother’s response of “and you just left him there!” was an indicator that she didn’t like Karen either? I get scared panicked mom mode, but her 47 year old adult son went to a party and doesn’t need a chaperone and she knows that. I think if she liked or loved Karen, she wouldn’t have immediately placed blame on her and maybe would have just asked more questions. Thoughts?
Agree. But also, keep in mind that John O’Keefe’s mom had already lost a another son and daughter-in-law suddenly and tragically. She was probably dealing with a level of grief that hopefully none of the rest of us will ever know, and was looking for someone to blame.
@@Tori_with_a_T I can see that. But his dad went through the exact same thing and would have the same amount of grief. He didn’t do any of that as far as we know. In fact, he immediately told his wife, who he knows way better than we do, to leave Karen alone. I know people handle trauma in different ways and that may account for the difference in their responses, but I think it’s possible that in that kind of mind frame, all of the niceties and politeness peels back and the real raw emotions and thoughts come out.
I think Jen McCabe got in her ear with a smear campaign, and in Carrie's, and his kids. She would think Jen would have no reason to lie, she trusted her.
I agree, it was an absurd comment, but then again, in tragedies like this people might search for a scapegoat. Karen was a convenient target for mom to direct her intense emotions.
I think she was shocked and reacted in anger. It happens, it is hard to tell without knowing the mothers personality. But didn't Karen say that she drove him to the house, he entered the house without her and he didn't come back so she drove away. So mother could ask the question regarding that situation?
I'm sorry but I feel like Jen thinks she can get away with anything if she stays vague enough. Her expression is I don't care while sitting on the stand. I find it hard to believe anything she says on the stand when she has to look at every single document since she supposedly can't recall anything.
Plus how she’s uses John’s death when it suits her needs. It’s sickening.
Exactly
I agree it's like she thinks what's important is keeping her story straight, truth tellers don't have to worry about what they said before
Jennifer McCabe comes across as the biggest B imaginable. Anyone with any sense should stay away from her!!!! I hope the jury sees through all of these women.
Why are we at a fight in Aruba before we're at *cause of death*???
One thing I have gotten so far is a lot of people and there children have drinking problems.
Literally the reason for this whole mess
Jealousy isn't cute, but it doesn't make you a murderer 🤷♀️
LALLY on a date: what if anything will you be ordering, and why.
God forbid if there are high top tables in the restaurant …lally- can you describe the layout and types of tables 🧐
Can you explain when and how you came to prefer that particular dish and what if anything do you find unappealing about the other dishes?
@@3dchick objection: compound
Lolololol
The fact they did no cross comes across to me that they are sympathetic to the only person who seems to care about the life of officer john okeef. She came across as honest and grief stricken and nothing she said was detrimental to their case.
I think they will call her to the stand when it is their case in chief.
Having driven through the snow many times at night, looking out the front windshield while driving with headlights on has the worse visibility. The snow coming at the vehicle in your headlights makes it very hard to see, thus always use low beams. It doesn’t surprise me at all that looking out the back passenger window would have better visibility to the side of the vehicle.
Just a therory...John goes in house, goes to the basement to hang out, Chloe attacks John, John punches Chloe (which pisses everyone off), Colin hits John in the head with a weight bar and cracks his skull, they leave him there for a while wear he loses the missing 3 pints of blood, carries him out the back, while theyre carrying him his phone is sliding out of his pocket and when they drop him his phone lands before he does which puts him on top of it. They feel his pockets for the phone but dont find it so go back to the basement and still cant find it so Jen starts the back to back phone calls searching. All of it happening while Karens still waiting, hense why it looks like John left her hang, and while Julie was talking to her brother, hence why Julie was acting normal and why Ryan only seen Karen alone in the car with her phone in her hands. Jen and Matt take Julie and the other girl, Kaitlyn takes Colin and Chloe, hense why no dog barking when they find Johns body...just a theroy. I think they wanted John and Karen over there so Brian could work on Karen and Jen could work on John. Chloe attacking John and Colin flipping out on John ruined everything
Case solved. We are adjourned
I thought maybe he was attacked by Chloe in the yard. Maybe he was pushed on the basement steps and cracked his head.
@@annjanovsky8054 😂 this case has got my mind reeling
This Aruba trip sounds like my living nightmare. 60 people? 40 going to eat? No thank you!!!!
And Im wondering how many kids came since her son was there 😳 too chaotic for me lol
I’ve been in relationships where I was not allowed in the circle. This case has taught me to run if I am ever in that situation again 😢
The amount of tragedy that surrounds the O'Keefe family is heartbreaking 😢
LOVE my new tumbler. I didn't think I would be ok with the diamond texture, it was a risky purchase, but now that it's in my hand it's the BEST thing ever! Like a built in adhd fidget toy and is oddly comforting. The texture is just delightful and combined with my favorite multi-chrome paint job, I'm ridiculously happy :)
Who needs enemies when you have “friends” like these. If Karen is truly innocent she has lost so much. After Mrs Roberts the rest of the day was a waste. How did the judge allow this?
Many of her ex close acquaintances will never be close to her again, even if she is acquitted. This whole thing has done irreversible damage to her life.
@@doeb23 exactly she lost her boyfriend, his family, probably her job, her car, her friends/acquaintances etc. It’s just sad all around. She needs more people in her corner. I don’t know for 100% if she is innocent or not but either way I don’t think it was intentional or maliciously if she is at fault.
@@doeb23if they are real friends, you are friends through thick and thin. I wouldn’t want so-called friends who run from me because i was accused of something I didn’t do. If that’s a “friend”, I wouldn’t want those people in my life. Real friends get down in the trenches with you during the rough times too.
Karen ditched the kids the moment she could, even before they took John's body away. That's inexcusable. With a 'parent' like Karen a kid really needs good grandparents. The kids lost so much.
Karen walked out on her responsibilities, she only wanted John. She deserves what she has. Nothing but money. And the whole world knowing what she is.
As a lawyer, I would not cross witnesses if I thought the cross might hurt the case.
Now the word Everything is so different no after Carrie testified. It went from everything as a talker to EVERYTHING as in we have to get our story together to the t
I have to wonder if KR took some meds after she got to JO’s house and that could be the reason she didn’t remember. That could also explain her thinking she may have hit JO especially if JM put those thoughts in her head.
Or they gave her scopolamine, you go along with everything and remember nothing. I think it's also called devils breath or something.
You’re truly amazing Emily! You had me laughing hard many times. Sometimes I ask a question and you answer it right then as if you’re reading my mind. & Thank goodness for the Zoomzoom!!!!
I feel awful for Karen. She has to hear his friends say awful things about her as well as making it seem like he did not want to be with her
For real, what could she have possibly done to deserve all these people trying to paint her as a murderer?
The most hurtful to me was "babysitter with benefits".
@@mini_skinny0296 YES!!! How awful to hear. On the flip side, Carry has been the best witness for the state so far. I am glad Jen let the jury know that was said. It made me not like her the moment she took the stand. So Jen did more harm than good for the state in my eyes
@pheebs818 Yes, I think they are bitches as I said and why I said it. I will not say 100% guilty or not guilty until I hear all the evidence. To say she was a babysitter with benefits is nasty. Especially when Karen was the one that home schooled them, set up trust funds, and took them shopping. The list goes on. Sadly, her messages to Higgins back that up when she says John's heart was not in it and how hard it was for her. Yet when the niece took the stand and lied about not being close with Karen. Karen and her team (despite her freedom depending on it) did not ask her about any of that. They also did not ask about the bday card she gave Karen ( in evidence) saying all the things Karen has done for them and what a great role model she was. This is because Karen actually gives a shit and is not willing to cause more pain on his loved ones. It was very obvious most, if not all of these women, that took the stand tried very hard to take shots at Karen. I do not know any of these people, nor did I have an option on the case, but from what I have heard so far, most of them are shady as hell. I do not hear anything to convince me Karen hit him with her car.
Master stroke not crossing Kerry Roberts. She said a couple things that supported the cw case, but directly contradicted important things Jen said. And didn't hear "I hit him!" They can point all this out in closing.
I don't know what their thinking was, but it kind of looks like by not crossing they were sparing further hurting someone who actually seemed to care "the guy" was unalived.
I haven't 100% given up on the cw, but oh boy, all I find I'm doing is trying think of a way their case could be true.
The 30-60 people trip reminds me why I no longer go on vacation with that many people. For at least 18 years we would go on family vacation from mass to Lake Winnipesaukee with my dads family every summer and I always hated it so now that the "kids" are getting married and having kids no way am I vacationing with 70-100 people so we sold our timeshare to one of the cousins who wanted it for her family and that week all the units were sold so it was easy to get someone to buy our unit
Watched from Ontario Canada Emily. I have NEVER seen a trial quite like this!! I think we may be here a mth from now!
Have you watched the Hulu series “Under the Bridge”? Based on true story set in Victoria, BC, it’s one of the most riveting shows I’ve seen!
Replay crew what’s up?! What did we think of today? Interesting not to cross CR but maybe they think there’s no reason to come off overly defensive at a credible witness
Still watching lol will add comments when done watching
I think it was a good move and makes a statement
Yes! Her testimony was contradictory to what Jenn testified to. No need to beat a dead horse
Agreed! CR is credible and made the defense theory way more plausible. He had a black eye. They don’t want to look harsh on her……. She’s not involved
Something I was just thinking about was that using the defence theory of conspiracy, Trooper Proctor could have only interviewed people he might have to cover something up for?
Tbh not convinced by conspiracy, that will wait for the defences case, but something shady is going on based on the deleted information from the cell phone extraction.
I definitely don't have 60 people that I want to go on holiday with 😂
The sisters testimony imo was a nothing burger… was expecting a history of violent behaviour towards John. To me it shows Karen got mad and then the next day apologized for it. How does this establish motive??? Had Karen been proven to be like AH I would be more inclined to believe the defendant is capable of such a crime.
Make it make sense
People keep referencing the niece testifying and saying that they fought for 20 minutes and that JO wanted to break up with her. I wonder if that’s the whole story?
How many drinks with how much food? What is her metabolism? What is her tolerance? I don't understand how they could possibly know.
And what are these cops doing letting everyone drive drunk? Driving drunk is inexcusable IMO.
It’s normal. My uncle who is a police officer is the worst driver I know. He drinks and drives along with all his police buddies :|
I’ve seen all of them do it.
It’s disturbingly common.
The normalization of bar hopping and drunk driving among a person of any occupation is horrifying to me. American culture celebrates alcoholism.
@user-ww8bu6lv3u not me and my friends! Not me and my community!
@@user-ww8bu6lv3u They are grownups, they can drink and hop bars, all they want-BUT then they have to *call an Uber/Taxi!!*
They are not in the middle of nowhere…these people are arrogant and simply don’t care!
@@user-ww8bu6lv3u some parts of America do I guess. And I agree, I'm just saddened that even the people upholding the law about this don't follow it.
Between Kerry and Jenn, who was the big talker??? I think Jenn came off as the talker
Yeah… Jen McCabe is a big “ bag of wind”
Ive been sanctioned twice. They've always took all my stuff from me immediately. And I had to wait until I was "checked-in" to call anyone. Check-in takes a while. After that then they let me look up a phone number in my phone. They let me call someone after, but I had to use their phones. So I dont understand them not taking her phone.
Honestly, can anything she wrote/said, after she was taken into the ambulance, even be up for debate?! Either she was “out of her mind” or she was falsely sanctioned!
The CW can’t have it both ways…
I feel like his body was put on the lawn around 230am , if he was still alive then his body heat could have melted whatever snow had landed at that point , the heavy snow was later in the morning which covered him up , but i dont believe it was 4 inches , judging by what we can see on top of stationary vehicles
_This_ is their smoking gun??? A bit of acting out while drunk on a vacation resort? Wow, they must really underestimate the jury’s judgment.
It’s almost incomprehensible. Compare this to past trials like Jodi Arias or even Murdaugh. For Jodi they were able to showcase months of dangerously obsessive and stalking behavior leading up to the ultimatum that if she couldn’t have Travis then no one could. Murdaugh still had some logistical questions, but it was clear that money and maintaining appearances were of paramount importance to him-probably enough to even sacrifice what he viewed as the most costly and high liability members of his own family.
Here…after 40+ witnesses…we have a misunderstanding in Aruba and disagreements about name brand clothing and nail salons for his nephew and niece.
The motive to kill is preposterously weak and underdeveloped even after all these weeks of testimony.
Right and who hasn’t got into a spat with their spouse while drinking?
let's hope the jury can get it right. juries are unpredictible.
I want to know why mrs McCabe and Carrie Roberts acted like they were friends with karen until that night. Why would things change within hrs. Supposedly these women did not know what caused johns death at the time.
Jen was never her friend, they didn’t have each other’s phone numbers either.
Why oh you coming with me Karen. >. Im a guy and that is very suspicious. They wanted to separate them the night
We just got back from Aruba! The jolly pirate is a drunk fest on a “pirate ship”
I heard the name and I had the same reaction!
So Karen fucked up, completely owned it, apologised to the woman and her sister, and may or may not have paid for some of her room to double down on the apology?? Yeah, sounds like a real wench…..(hope the sarcasm is coming through).
This sounds like the type of thing the good and stand up ppl I know would do.
If a man did the same would it be okay? I feel like she’s emotionally deregulated then buys flowers to apologise (I have problems with this behaviour).
@@BellaCarmeziayeah I think if anyone makes a mistake then owns the mistake, apologises, and takes action to try and make up for it then yeah I would be okay with it. If the behaviour is constantly repeated then that’s an issue. But all humans get dysregulated and say and do things they regret later. IMO I don’t see this as a motive for murder, which as Emily pointed out, is the reason the prosecution is eliciting this testimony.
The State has proven Karen Read is a saint for offering pay for that women's room. It sounds like "Johnny" wanted away from the both of them because something did happen, and valued Karen more than Etta.
She was a teenager and went and hugged a guy in his 40s (even though he was the godfather of her nephew, to me it seems a very bold gesture). I think she was flirting with him. The way she replied with a fck word to a more mature woman, the way she dropped f-bombs in court, when older people are not sure if they should censor themselves or just tell the exact words show her as a disrespectful person with poor boundaries.
is this the best the state can present ? show us the car details , show us how you the CW think jo was struck by a suv . this is horrible mean girl mentality today
They really should have called Kerry 3rd, maybe Jen 4th. I would have believed a lot more from Jen then. Well, maybe not cuz she was so evasive with cross. But Kerry has seemed very credible so hearing things from her first would have probably fiven more weight to Jenn saying similar things. And we wouldnt have all the info about the rehomed phones or dogs or homes or all the cross questioning everyones supposed movements and alibis and Jenn talking to everyone and wanting screenshots.
I love Yanetti’s cross!
The effects of MS on both Karen and Jen are not being considered. A simplistic disregard for what may look like character defects may well have causative origins of a medical nature.
I will bet you that Jen McCabe was diagnosed with her “condition” after finding out Karen has it. That’s my opinion. She cannot stand a woman getting more attention than her. My opinion.
She wanted her own bathroom because she has chrohns and MS.
She sure does drink a lot of alcohol for someone who has Crohn’s and MS! Also, if she can sit in this courtroom all day, she doesn’t have Crohn’s
@lynngallagher7456 how does she drink a lot of alcohol?? We know of less than a handful of times she has drank. And she had no choice but to sit through court. With her having Ms and Crohns, she could very well have a colostomy bag. Or she is managed.
@lynngallagher7456 -- Your comments throughout these comments sections paint you as a SAD, sadistic person. Maybe consider seeking help.
@@lynngallagher7456 I have a condition that makes me not like drinking because I get super sick from barely any alcohol, but if I were in some of these situations (like a vacation with 60+ people) with people who clearly don’t like me, I think I’d take my shitty symptoms from having drank over dealing with that bs stone cold sober
@@lynngallagher7456 You can manage it with medication
I believe Karrie Roberts. But I have just one question: She said under JOs body was just grass. How then did blood get all over the top of compacted snow that had to be uncovered by a snowblower? And what a weird place to find his phone. That seems more like someone stuck his phone under his body not that it flew out of hand or pocket if hit by a car.
Is it just me or did anyone else notice Jen McCabe always wanted or needed to refer to her previous statements to recollect events to make sure her story didn't change
Absolutely
I had a friend did the samething. It's the absolute worst. My heart goes out to her