BMW i4 M50 battery overheating test
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- Опубліковано 20 сер 2022
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It turns out that BMW checked the car and they found indications that there's something wrong with it. They will update me with more information later. I will most likely borrow the M50 again once the issue has been fixed.
Of course they did
No doubt update the software to July release 🤪
I bet they stuffed up and will fix that in a future software update.
thanks for info, hope they are right - and can fix it.
Why is it always the press cars you get are faulty 😂
this guy is unmatched with his dedication of testing those cars
and most importantly, transparent!
Missing HVAC during charging is the reason we got rid of our Zoe. Waiting 50 minutes for the car to charge during -15C is unacceptable.
There is workaround by programming preheating during charging session.
Anyways, stupid design regardless.
@@valtersvasilis Very nice! I did not know that.
Great test.
The problem is the way (we) legacy automakers work: Every component from a different supplier.
This will never lead to excellent integration.
"Thats the way internet works ." Nailed it Bjørn. Takk og god tur!
22:17
22:41
Keep up the great work Bjorn - been following you since you started - keep the dream alive 😁
Thanks for going into detail on this, Bjorn. I have an M50 on order and I am not gonna cancel it due to this issue, because you made sure we understand it in detail. Don't let the haters get to you, you're the man.
Dont cancel it, I have the car and have not seen this issue at all when fast charging in warm temperatures.
It’s still a great car. And now we all know, how to save five minutes, in case we care.
BMW checked the car I borrowed and they have indications that there's some issues with it.
I “managed” to trigger this in TM3 2021 as well. Arrived with 1% at a V3 with +30 degrees outside. I went out of the car and was charging fine up to 20% or so but then I opened the door of the car (that triggered the AC) and then the charging session messed up. This happened in August 2021 when Tesla allowed LG battery to go to max 56 degrees Celsius. After an update around Christmas, they let the battery go to 60 degrees Celsius so maybe the “problem” is partially solved.
However, I learned that in hot weather, low state of charge and V3, better don’t run the AC if you do not want to mess up the charging session. I also do not navigate to SC in such weather - the battery will not start that warm, miss few KW on the peak power but overall have a better chance to do not overheat.
Thank you Bjorn for explaining it!
Weird, we have just travelled through a VERY hot Europe this summer in our 2021 Model 3 and stayed in the car with cooling for some sessions without any issue
@@DeeKay1911 it only happened on V3 and when starting from very low state of charge. Also, I think me letting the car closed with no AC and suddenly use AC for cabin full blast was instantly unbalancing the entire cooling system.
Last, as I mentioned, Tesla is now allowing for the battery temperature to go higher before limiting the charging power and that should definitely help. Cheers!
@@ZEFElectric Seeked out V3 as much as possible and our lowest arrival was 2% SoC - but might have been fixed as you say 👏🏼
Like Dennis, I drove a Model 3 LR LG battery through Europe, at 37°C 1400km in one day and charged at V3s, starting at ~10% with no problem. Always had the cabin cooling, even if I went outside. Each time the car had no problem in reaching peak power 240-250kwh and then slowly decreasing according to charging curve.
I have pushed my 2021 LR hard on autobahn long distance at +30 degrees outside to c. 5% and the v3 supercharged with no throttling and aircon is always on in my car. Perhaps this was specific to your car - a coolant issue or something else?
The problem is that the car might be occupied by a pet or child while the car is charging, and if so, the cabin should receive priority as default. However the user interface could query the driver as to whether the battery or the cabin should receive priority whilst indicating that this might result in a higher/lower cabin temperatures.
Normally working i4 M50 cools both just fine, even when there is 40C outside.
It is all about energy management, how much energy is available for cabin cooling versus battery management. It also depends on the solar loading in the cabin on sunny days. More energy is required to operate the cabin HVAC heat pump meaning less is available for charge management. Bjorn is correct, it is a software challenge and the engineers have to decide priority. Is it more important to charge more rapidly at the cost of cabin HVAC? The UI in the car should at least ask the user, rather than assume.
@@aigarius was Bjørns i4 M50 not normal?!
@@aigarius then what's going on here?
Better, the system and components should be sized so they can do both adequately instead of having to prioritize one over the other
Great video Bjorn. BTW the other day I supercharged a Model X with 38 degrees Celsius ( in Seville) with no problem or effect in the performance of the car. Left the AC on to maintain cabin temp at 23 degrees Celsius while charging.
Thumbs up from me !! Thanks for educating the internet 💪🏻
Thanks for the follow up!
Hey Bjorn! Excellent video again my friend! I loved the side by side display of data while the car was charging. The spreadsheet data was great too. You have all the qualities of a great engineer. In your driving videos, I feel like I am in the car with you on an EV adventure. Thanks! Peace on Earth and stop burning your planet!
2:30 Hi Bjørn. Might be a good time to adjust your references, for what the extremes are. In the UK they achieved the ominous record of 40.3°C and Portugal and Spain sometimes even see temperatures slightly above 45.
I agree and I am from Spain.
My eyebrow rose when you said only fans during BMS statement lol
Very insightful!
Great review btw! Thanks Bjorn. Cheers
another amazing test thank you Bjorn! I have to order a car in few weeks, and must be an EV for company, I've test driven the Mercedes EQE 350+ I quite enjoyed it, but I wonder about those aspects of the car, the coldgate, rapidgate and such, I wish you could perform those tests with the EQE at some point, Mercedes deserves some light on their performance too :) ty!
Considering the numbers of vids you make about the M50. You have to admit that you fall in love with it !
nice video. I want to use a car any way I need to and that definitely means having the cabin at the temp I need whenever I need it. I think cars at such price levels simply have to be made to accommodate that :)
Yep. If this is true and normal behaviour for BMW I series this is a huge issue. The car should charge quickly and be able to cool the cabin.
This exactly. Totally unacceptable in a product in this price range. Actually in any modern car at any price point.
@@TuomasLeone I think if it is a general issue then it shows how the legacy carmakers do not think EV really
Model S has a bypass valve for the ac to battery heat exchanger to gradually distribute cabin and battery cooling. Battery cooling has priority as I found out on a 45C day inland Australia with a message displayed that cabin cooling is now limited.
Nice video!✌
Thumbs up 👍
You have very old software in that i4 m50.. my July update has a digital read out in the display as to how much power is being pulled rather than a just a bar with the maximum KW and a guessometer! 22c Charging from 8% to 80% on a 150kw charger sat in the car with ac on (pre condition set to DC charger) no rapid gate noticed and had been using sports boost to deliberately flatten the battery I didn’t lose boost after the charge until a lot more hammering ans even then only down to 440bhp not 200… not sure if the latest software has made a difference! Check for OTA update?
Thanks. Is it the user that decides when to update the software or is it BMW? Is there a “check for updates” option? I guess the update is done via cloud and you don’t have to take the car to the dealership. Correct?
@@eduardobarca You can force the car to check for updates. You also get notified in the app when it's available. When you get it depends on your market though.
Does it even support OTA for low level components? Infotainment maybe gets OTA, but HVAC system runs on dedicated ECU and would probably require a visit to workshop.
@@RobertPuklin The car software OTA supports lower level components, but I don't know if it's able to upload absolutely all components.
This is may 2024, and I experience the same priblem on my i4 edrive 35. In Spain, temp is 23 °, made 2 charges from 15 to 80, and got the warning error that the battery was overheating and the charging power needed to be reduced. Adding the fact that the normal charging is poor (it always goes below 100kW after 40%), it's just a big shame that BMW sells this kind of stuff at such a high price...
Well, I guess BMW just needs to put more Svarowski crystals into the i4. That will surely help to solve this problem for their kind of customers.
That's why Tesla has octovalve and the biggest contact area between cell and cooling lines
Once I used Renault Zoe from a car sharing and the car didn't have PTC heater so all the heat was made with heatpump. Therefore in summer it rapidgated even with 50 kW DC.
Also can check with windshield defogger - no heat when AC auto enables
About 26:20 do you mean, that you should only use the fans to cool the cabin if needed? So deactivate cabin cooling as long as it is not needed like you showed on the 1000km test?
I just went on vacation in my E-tron 55 and rapid charged it several times in 30 degree weather, while sitting in the car with the A/C on. I never once had any trouble, it charged with full power all the time, and the cabin was nice and cold.
Did you track the power it charged with at all SoC and compared it with a normal session? If not, you likely spent 5+ minutes extra charging compared to a normal session, without noticing it.
@@My_HandleIs_ I did not, no. The fat E-tron charges at 150 kw pretty much all the way from empty to 80% (I know it does not exactly and I am sure Bjørn has a good video showing the charging curve) and it did so in the very hot weather, with the A/C on as well. But you are right, it could have taken a few minutes extra without me noticing, but what Bjørn is showing in the video with the BMW seems very noticable!
Usually I leave the car when charging, or I charge to just about the range I need before moving on and thus spend little more then 15 minutes charging. Never experienced this before, but nice to know why it happens, and how to avoid it. With a sunroof it's easy to cool down the car rather quick anyway. Wonder if the same problem exist with the ix, or if this is a consequence of building an ev from a fossil platform? The car is nice enough, but I really wish they made it bespoke and put some effort into giving us all the benefits of an electric vehicle. The concept was awesome, but apparently most of that ended up in the ix.
Running ‘Onlyfans’ in the car will definitely heat things up 🤣
Passenger heating only
We have the same behaviour in the Jaguar iPace.
If you run the heater in wintertime, the car will not hear up the battery, and it will charge slow.
Solutions: stop the heater, or turn of the car (sometimes difficult if it's -10c outside)
The kWh/h unit is so maddening! Have the engineers really lost their final say at BMW?
They should display the energy in Diesel Liters per hour equivalent 😎
A lot of these comments didn’t age well, after finding out the reason for the overheating. Maybe y’all should hold the bad vibes for explanation instead of jumping to conclusions.
Great vid Mr Nyland.
Hello Mr Bjorn
Plz inform how much energy (Kwh increase ) for every 30 minutes charge if we put 22 Kw type 2 AC charger into EV like Ioniq5
If we install 22 Kw AC charger on public charging station, is it significant different in charging time compared with 11 Kw AC charger ?
Plz advise & Thanks
Andy S
Nice explanation. I would really like the manufacturers to document all this stuff.
Anyway, I think this is not an oversight on their side, that it was a design decision not to invest in optimizing that scenario. I mean, how often in practice do you actually want to travel 1000kms in as short time as possible? I'd say most people will stop after these 250km or how much, take a toilet break, stretch and when they are done, they find the car charged and ready and they don't really notice if it rapidgated or not and if they do notice, they'd assume the car is being just lazy that day and won't make much fuss about it. It's just few geeks somewhere on the Internet that poke into everything and will find weird stuff in it no matter how hard you try.
Is that worth developing custom hardware if the electric car will do maybe 5% of sales in the next years, or do you just take as much stock and well-tried design from other cars you already have?
And I would really love to know how much that difference is due to octovalve / routing, how much it is software not being intelligent enough and how much is something like the shape of the battery cells (more surface area being easier to cool, therefore less power needed on the side of the HVAC).
so i continued to test this and can confirm something funny - even though I wasn't able to trigger the rapid gating during charging (30c ambient), what I did trigger is that the car was using anywhere between 2.5-3 kwh when idling (i.e. idling at a stoplight) even with AC off - so clearly the car was trying to cool down the battery after the HPC session (had switched AC ON during the entire session, so it couldn't direct it to cool the battery). So there you go - even if you don't trigger outright rapid gating and/or power loss when driving consequently after charging, you WILL trigger higher consumption for the next 30 min at least because the car will be so busy cooling the battery (this is not confirmed but where else would the 2.5-3kwh pull come from; again, even tried turning AC off while driving - almost no effect, about 300wh lower but still high). So conclusion could be:
- worst case: rapid gate during charge, then power loss
- best case: increased consumption after HPC session and AC on during session, as car tries to keep battery cool
Solution / workaround: don't blast AC when HPC charging in hot weather, or turn it on when car high in the SOC (>70%) already and just before getting back to sit in the car (like 3-4 min before leaving). this let me avoid the issue
Good post. In the original 1000km challenge video i assumed faulty battery or something due to high consumption in addition to rapidgate, but this makes sense now.
Li-Ion batteries really don't like to sit at temperatures at around 55-60deg for longer times, so every car needs to (or at least should) cool down the battery after a 0-50% charging session
Volkswagen has now fixed winter consumption. After 2.4 they heatup battery small steps. Before straight 13 celsius with 6kw PTC heater. You should test some Meb car in next winter.
I usually start the AC for cooling after I started the charging on HPC and I never ever had something like you experienced... strange
Hey Bjørn, will you ever test the Audi E-Tron GT RS aswell?
How is Bjorn and the sequel the new baby? God bless 🙏
I have an i3 REx and was amazed that BMW didn't choose to use waste heat from the REx engine to warm the cabin, but instead they choose to just use the PTC heater. Yeah, I know it's all down to economics and extra pipes and valves and so on, but still...
It is precisely such things that can separate the wheat from the chaff.
Even if it is very technical and many customers are not interested in the structure and function under the hood, as they prefer to buy according to the optical design.
Of course, some manufacturers then specialized in this because it meant more sales, and technical (future) competence was then probably neglected in some cases.
Check recall for this car. Mayby there is BDC defekt, important for heating interior.
Do you think the E-drive 40 will have the same problem?
Hello Bjørn.I love your videos.Did you know if this is the case with Porsche Taycan also?
Not a problem with Taycan at all.
Thanks for this Info and the deep insight in the car technologies (and problems).
I ordered the I4 M50. I want to use this car for the business (45.000 km/Y). Now i drive a Model S100. In normal way i charge up to 65% (with the I4 i will go up to 80%). In this case i can't see the problems like in this video. Is this the latest Software Version (i don't think so)?
I hope BMW will optimize this Problem and i thing they will do that.
My personal opinion.
Every car manufacturer has problems (in other countries) depending on its core developing country (Climate, roadconditions, previous driving experiance etc.).
Tesla (California/USA): Bad lights, bad corrosion protection, suboptimal driving assistent (e.g. Road construction site/full deutsche Autobahn), etc.
BMW (Germany/Middle Europe): problem with the non optimal battery (pre) conditioning and mayby other thinks.
We'll take a look at the next updates. 🙂
Or you buy a car from a maker with more experience with EVs who has already solved these issues. The i4 M50 is not even equal to a 4-5 year old (2018 model year) Model 3 Performance in terms of overall engineering.
I makes zero sense to replace TMS 100D with i4. You'll get half of the car less with the same consumption.
Found this in the driver's manual of the i4, suggesting that the issue is known to BMW: 'Wenn die Standklimatisierung beim
Aufladevorgang genutzt wird - ist während der Fahrt eine geringere Klimatisierungsleistung
erforderlich. Dadurch wird die Reichweite
optimiert.' ... If the air conditioning at charging process is used - a lower air conditioning performance while driving is necessary. This optimizes the range.
Same issue as with Hyundia group E-GPM platform cars manufacturers have to update the software where priority to charging but still have some climate control.
For that price, they should have a second A/C unit so they can cool the battery AND the cabin during a charging session :) They're not that big that it doesn't fit under that enormous hood :D Brilliant car otherwise.
Guess what happens if you *do* have two ACs and one of them fails or rather underperforms without outright failing? You get *exactly* the symptoms that Bjorn is having.
@@aigarius Fair point, then we should count the number of radiators, maybe :)
@@aigarius So just but 4 in it, under the hood is enough space 🙃
"... that's the way internet works ..." 🤣
I think there is a mistake in the document, it's February 2022 (not 2021) for the first test of the i4 M50.
So, whats the difference between the Taycan and BMW i4? Maybe better cooling management, or the 800V system.
Better cooling. Because many 400 V cars like e-tron and Model 3/Y has no issues at all with cooling.
As a eUp driver, It's hard for me to name this Rapidgate. It's slightly reduced charing power. Rapidgate is my eUp, which only charges with 10kW on the 3. fast charge.
ist that phenomenon not the same as for the i3? You should not use heating/cooling if the inside when you ac charge?
ua-cam.com/video/-cFmz30pr2Y/v-deo.html
Do not listen to that. Use AC normally during charging as well, had zero problems even on long high speed drives at 38C ambient temperature.
I'm sure Audi is very happy that their EV is called "fat Etron" 😄👍👊.
Same test for EQE 350 would be interesting, German vs German.
Will you ask BMW about what they think is the cause?
An update from the future, they found the water glycol level was too low in the car. Possibly due to a manufacturing issue.
Mr Nyland published a new vid with the same car after this… check it out.
It's kind of wild how much charging station recharging gets talked about, I watched a lot of videos on them before buying the tesla M3 LR but once owning it I didn't realize how rare it would be more for me to even charge at charging station. Either there's way more road trip people out there than expected or I guess a lot of people are buying EV's without having the ability to charge at home which to me seems like a questionable choice unless you live in a country where there's an abundance of reliable charging stations , but to me a hybrid makes way more sense in that case.
Just because someone is using a charging station doesnt mean they don't have access to home charging.
@@samusaran7317 fair, but just ask anyone who owns an EV how often they really need to charge at a public station vs at home. I know multiple friends and multiple family members that currently own EV's and everyone does a large majority of charging at home, and some of the charging they do away from home isn't really even necessary, they just top off when it's convenient
Hi, does someone here know how to get the M icon in the digital display (top left corner of the screen).? I received my i4 M50 yesterday, but that does not have the icon (I know first world problems xD)
Maybe the BMW engineers could just try to predict the target SoC of a charging session and adjust the charging curve in a way that avoids Rapidgate. They could use the planned route information from the navigation system.
Maybe it was a conflict of interest, and the guy who wanted to see the highest charging peaks won the dispute.
My experience is that the engineers are never dumb. They are making trade-offs, usually cost against capability. I am not defending them in any way, but perhaps they had a limitation on HVAC as you suggest. Perhaps they decided that for the limited case that this occurs it wasn’t worth re-engineering the HVAC. Maximizing profit…
However I AM suprised they didn’t include an ‘ONLY FANS’ option in the climate - the fossil cars all feature a button to turn off AC… seems a backwards step
Ok, compared to the i3 they didn't fix it in the i4. But how does the BMW iX behave? Asking, since that is built on an EV-only platform.
iX should have better cooling since it can tow 2500 kg.
Instead of visiting BMW for check after previous video as many owners of BMW suggested due to the PDC recall, we have another video when everyone jumps to conclusion. This is how the Internet become modern Hyde Park.
It’s nice of you Bjorn to test all these EVs out there, the way I see things right now is if the whole of Europe inc the UK, if we go all electric it would count near on 5% of the planet, the U.S. Russia and China must do something also, those are the biggest polluters on earth, it seems we’re losing the battle plus the economic turn down will not help as the UK is going into a recession soon, other countries will follow and not a lot of people can’t afford to charge there cars, the UK is planning electric blackouts soon for a few hours to protest about the high prices we have to pay to greedy corporations, I use to pay for my gas&electric £70 a month,
Now I’m paying £320, and it’s broadcasting that this will go up again, is Europe experiencing the same thing???
This is odd. My Tesla is desperate to heat the battery up so much that even during this summer it still wanted to heat it up.
Yes that's the only part of Bjørns video that didn't make sense to me. How does the tesla cool the cabin and battery when it is hot outside and heat is being produced from the battery charge process?
@@chrischild3667 have you looked into the octovalve?
When Bjorn showed performance stats in the car, the drivetrain temperature was shown at 64C. That is *way* too high. It was absolutely clear that the car was struggling and failing to cool itself down even when driving. That is not normal, the car is clearly defective. There is even a recall for BDC currently out for i4 for thermal problems.
@@ReubenHorner i haven't, but I will. As someone not familiar with Octovalves the explanation didn't quite cover it all enough for me and I'm familiar with the general workings of heat pumps.
@@ReubenHorner OK checked it out a little. It redistributes cabin heat to other components, the battery itself and then to the outside atmosphere if everything else is up to temp. Is that your understanding too? Makes me wonder, as per Clive's comment, why the Tesla wants to preheat the battery so much or - as per Bjørn's thailand trip - when charging, its diverting charge energy to heat the battery in 30°c+ conditions? I suppose the answer is that the cabin is cool and comfortable so not much heat to scavenge there and maybe Tesla likes to get the battery hot 40/50°c when charging even at modest 50kW (Thailand trip showed a drop to 35-37kW due to battery heating even in warm/hot conditions).
I work at the bank or Björn on his account he received a large transfer (Musk Elon)😄😄
The next Test will be interresting, because it's not irrelevant! Lets say 32 Celsius and 150 km/h on German Autobahn is not so rare! And probably you want a cool Temperiture in your car while you charging when you pay that much money for a car.
Yep, what else could I say?
The cars should just have a manual button in the display where it says “Prepare for fast charging” and a number for how many minutes it will take. Then I can push that when I know I am getting near a charger and there would be no need for auto functions or entering a navigation destination.
That’s simple, but not energy efficient. The driver might forget to activate the button, or press it too early or too late. If the car knows early in advance about the next charging stop, it can use existing „waste“ energy (e.g. from the motors) to warm up the battery or stop cooling the battery. If there is less time, the car needs to sacrifice valuable battery energy for heating or cooling. The computer can measure the temperature of battery and environment, and can take the battery weight (mass) and energy flow into account to find and manage the optimal thermal flow.
@@ziggyyo Im sure people have the capacity to press a button. They're on their phones while driving a many cases...
Traveling with 2 small children onboard and not running cabin AC while charging sounds like a nightmare. Poor engineering by BMW.
wasn't this a press car? Somebody clocked out early on the build quality?
1:12 OnlyFans 😂😂😂
It was only today that I realized that I totally misunderstood the meaning of "OnlyFans"! 🚫🆒 😂
This is *not* normal. I've also arrived at less than 10% and change to 60% and driving at over 200 km/h while cooling the cabin all the way with i4 M50. The car you have is having some kind of problem. It tries to prioritize customer comfort at the expense of charging performance. Also the idle power consumption of you car is almost double of what my car has in similar temperatures. It clearly has some problems with its heat pump. It is really sad that you are generalising from one defective car. There are tons of comments on the previous video with people not having this problem. The simplest explanation is that you are wrong and your car is defective, not that all other people have no idea. Or is it a Bjorn-only rapid gate and in that case - does it matter?
Get another car, from a fan or something. Ideally a car that has just been delivered with 22/07 software.
BMW also has heat pumping between subsystems. That bit is what could also be defective or not activating in your car. That can also be caused by old software.
And Sport mode *does* use more power in a normal car because the car keeps the drivetrain at optimal temperature level, which takes power to do. In comfort mode the acceptable temperature range is much wider.
@@aigarius He tested it: ua-cam.com/video/VVZEZJ2NuaQ/v-deo.html
Agreed, not wise to generalize like this on the basis of one car, when there are several examples of M50 users not having these problems.
Something wrong is in this car. Never hapend to me.
Any fat etron owner also experienced something like this BMW here? It was 33 degrees Celsius in Germany and when I tried to use HPC, it only delivered 70-80KW.
Rhis low speed I only got when its cold.....(Ioniq 5). But I did not try to charge with AC on....If the AC is on it gives a warning that charging will be slower.
dont mind me, im just waiting for Dr. M to post his comments to defend BMW
🤣
Are you kidding me? It can either cool the battery or cool the cabin, but not both? That's a criminally negligent oversight. Wow....
So to sum up, BMW built the same AC as in the ICE version and it cannot cope with the battery and the cabin 🥹
It should be called "hot-gating." we already know what "cold-gating" is -- slower charging speed due to cold battery. hot-gating is slower charging speed due to hot batter. rapid-gating just doesn't make any sense.
can't believe BMW M division letting this happen. what more in a race track?
Here is the answer:
ua-cam.com/video/MAlqOmLDwVo/v-deo.html
That's why tesla is ahead lots of testing and designed from ground up. Curious how tesla could improve more.
First. Sheeeeiiit
So the car is sadly useless for other countries. Here in Germany we have 30-35°C for weeks now so the car would rapidgate alot faster.
So, not the "Tesla killer" after all.
100% Deal breaker. A car with such a huge ugly grille should not be overheating. What a pathetic EV. Can't cool both AC and battery at the same time. So much for superior German engineering.
Shame om you BMW. You used to be a premiumbrand, now there are shortcuts all over