Superglue CNC Machining! Machining & Results! Widget66
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Let's use superglue and a custom 3D mold to hold a complex shape for 2nd op machining!
Tools used:
Superglue: amzn.to/1GV7a1o
Heat Gun: amzn.to/1GV7flC
DeWalt Saw: amzn.to/X5ytR1
Acetone: amzn.to/1M3WsUY
2-4-6 Blocks: amzn.to/11EBDwt
Download Fusion360 at autode.sk/1KWx6Wq !
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Music copyrighted by John Saunders 5 Reasons to Use a Fixture Plate on Your CNC Machine: bit.ly/3sNA4uH
Pretty cool stuff
Pretty cool.
The gouge was in the simulation as well.
NYC CNC I figured you say it and fixed it before sending the code to the machine.
Guess not. Makes it exciting.
cool video .
Double sided masking tape works surprisingly well also. its roughly .007" thick. However if you have to run coolant this way would be faster because you have to do more prep work to ensure the coolant cant loosen the tape. I use the tape method all the time though, its quick and works like a champ. prepping the surfaces with isopropyl helps ensure a better stick and can also helps removal after machining.
A gold smith I used to work with ( I repaired watches) held his work in a "pitch pot" which was exactly what it sounds like... a bowl of pitch tar which he would heat a portion to liquefy it, position the piece in the position for the work he wanted to do on it and hold it there for a couple of seconds while it hardened. He would typically start hammering on it within 5 minutes. IDK if it would work for machining or if there is maybe some newer substance that would work similarly.
Breathing on the CA glue will help set it in a pinch but there are better options. You can use a liquid accelerant that is usually sprayed on. The liquid can be hard to find, sometimes expensive, and smells funny. You can also use baking soda. Lightly dust the part before putting it in the fixture with CA glue. It will set in seconds. Nice little trick. I hope that helps.
Andrew
You can find CA accelerants at R/C hobby stores, the tires are glued to the rims.
+NYC CNC Yep! Its used by prop and model builders but also music instrument builders. It is handy for when you need to attach something that you cannot hold well for a long period of time like a guitar nut or when you use thicker CA glues for things like fretboard repairs and the set time is longer.
The spray is handy when you are just about to put something together as you can hold the surface with one hand and spray with the other but some materials do not react well to the spray like plastics and woods so using baking soda makes for less risk and easier clean up. You can target what areas you want accelerated with soda like deep pockets that may have more glue. I have heard about people having bad reactions to the liquid so soda is less of an issue.
I also have used soda when machining thin small pieces of material that would be too difficult to vacuum down. It makes for a quick setup. Face some material so you know you are flat to the spindle fairly fast so you have some texture in the surface that the glue can grab then slap your material with soda on and you should be ready to go shortly. You can either pry the material off or heated as you did. It does get stinky when heated. Reface the material when you have a build up of glue that you need to clean off.
Give it a shot!
Andrew
This was awesome! I probably wouldn't have thought of holding it like that, but I will now if I need to make something like this. I think to get the zero set a little closer I might have cut the fixture and not move it, then cut the part in it using the same zero the fixture was cut with, without moving anything. This way It's almost certainly in the correct position without much hassle, assuming the part fits in the fixture pretty close.
Great video, and thanks for showing your mistakes so we can learn from them too!
+NYC CNC A simple way to add repeatability like that would be to have a set of stepped hard jaws, (or even soft jaws would work), with a ground pin pressed/close slip-fit at the far left or right of the fixed jaw at a known distance. When you make your fixtures, negatives, or whatever, use the pin as a stop so that no matter how many times you remove your part/fixture, you can always get it back within .0005-.001" or so of its pre-set work offset in X. Think of it like a high precision vise stop. Works great for repeatable production, especially when used with small "pallets".
Keep up the great vids!
It was a shame about that CAM screw up, it sure happens quick doesn't it! Did you ever discover why it wanted to drill for oil?
That little 440 is working out really nicely there John. I'm sure it will be encouraging many people to now consider getting in to this type of thing. Unfortunately the strong US$ and freight to Oz just kills any idea for many of us over there in Oz, but all the power to those who can.
Keep up the awesome work John and glad to see things are marching ahead so quickly for you.
In your last video if only i'd seen it first I woulda warned you about the first plunge in the morphed spiral! You can see it on the toolpath! Anyway, what a great result. Fantastic how hard that glue holds! I will definitely remember that trick :D Don't feel bad about being off 30thou, we all done it :D
Ha! I've had a few of those cam "wtf" moments. Luckily I caught it doing prove out with a 2"+ z part setup. It for some reason was trying to some z eliptical when I had never programmed that in. Something to do with smoothing in the post setup.
Nice fixturing to be able to mill that second side. Work out the parts and you could make some pretty cool parts. I wonder how well you could 3-D etch that piece now?
Interesting music choice. did you know that Clickspring here on UA-cam uses the same song?
+kitesquid Ahhh thattt's where I recognise it from :)
Judd's under the table
The best way to do complex 3d parts like that, at least in production machining, is to design in some small flat reference spots that you can use to calibrate the machine.
If you had it to do over (with all sides machined) would you fashion the "bottom" (the simpler side) first? Which would weigh heavier in your decision: an easy-to-machine negative mold/fixture, or the possibly greater holding power of the complicated surface?
I doubt if I will ever be able to make something that complicated with my Anilam Crusader M (which has a limit of 1000 lines of code). But I can dream, can't I? Great video as always.
Nice project john. Love the honesty
Think you could have drilled a few holes on the bottom (curved contact area) of the fixture and made a vacuum fixture out of it? Only reason I ask is that would eliminate that cure time and should still provide plenty of holding power
+Finn Custom Knives +NYC CNC I doubt that would work. The maximum hold-down from vacuum is 15 psi (atmospheric pressure). It looked like you had about 4 square inches, so maximum hold down would be around 60 pounds. The mold handles the side pressure from cutting, but there would be some tendency to lift, and I think it might exceed 60 pounds. With a good vise putting hundreds, if not thousands of pounds holding pressure (and still parts move sometimes), 60 pounds seems a bit light.
A square foot or more might be a candidate for vacuum hold down because those square inches really add up. I have a 5600# granite ball (4' diameter) that "floats" on a cushion of water at a mere 5.5 psi. The reason is - there is a 1000 square inch pressure area to multiply that low pressure. Think what 15 psi of vacuum could do with 1000 square inches to work on. It's like that wow-lookit-that experiment where you suspend a bowling ball by the suction of a vacuum cleaner working through a 6 to 8" funnel. I just googled [ bowling ball vacuum cleaner ] and discovered that this seems to be a mystery to the youtube community.
+Peter W. Meek if it were just a flat part I would definitely agree. But shouldnt the surface area of the part(contoured side) be more than just LxW since it is 3d machined? Also, the part is sitting down in the fixture so really all the vacuum would be doing is sucking down, while the location will be held in place by the fixture.
Genuinely curious here, not trying to be argumentative or anything lol
+Finn Custom Knives You have the effect correct in your last-but-one sentence. The pull is straight down. The only sideways holding is from the sides of the mold.
It's the area of the curve where the vacuum meets atmosphere. If it isn't a plane curve, I'm not sure how you would measure the area. Possibly if you imagined stretching a soap film onto the curve. Minimum area to connect the curve, anyway. I'm not so good at non-Euclidean geometry (on potato-chip or saddle surfaces), so I can't figure it exactly, but for most purposes it will be only slightly more than the area of its projection onto a plane.
The pull will be normal (perpendicular) to that plane (or planish) surface. Anything sideways to the perpendicular is counteracted by an equal pull on the opposite side. The pull at any point can be considered to be the sum of two vectors: the straight down pull and the exactly sideways pull. The side pull is real, but because it is completely counteracted by the pull on the opposite side, we can ignore it and just measure the straight down pull. Thus the area of the curve where vacuum meets atmosphere is what counts.
I Mill with Super Glue All Day Long.
... Instinctively pounded space at the crazy gouge! :-/
Still, beautiful work!
Just a tip, hit it with a blow torch. Only needs to hit 200 for breakdown, but most blow dryers take to long. All that pounding might deform a delicate part, far more than 400*. :-D
For a very thin part it might be overkill but for most larger ones shouldn't be too bad. The real concern is if you need to worry about discoloration, especially if you're doing something like steel or stainless, that will completely ruin the finish.
Hello John.
You can accelerate the super glue with an activator to harden faster
RS Ambre Aerosol or KROMLECH or cyanoacrylate accelerator for example...
there's a fixture wax that I think would work better for this, same idea but easier to remove and probably as good at holding the part. Tom Lipton had a vid on that holding a penny flat to skim it on the lathe.
I meant to use that instead of super-glue with your "negative" fixture, no need to use the hammer to take it apart
When you machined the pocket you could also machine the top left corner that way it's true to the pocket. Love the videos just use fusion to do a 3d part on 1044 steel worked great.
How much air flow/pressure do you need to evacuate chips?
Great video! It is actually cleaner to blast super glue bonds with cold rather the hot. The bond becomes so brittle it will just pop off. Try flipping a keyboard duster upside down and spray it with the that. The aluminum should transfer the cold quite nicely. Plus burning super glue gives off some nasty chemicals.
primer, bondo, machine top, dowel pins
Tip on the removal, heat the part and cool one half of it under cold water (part of fixture), the shrinking will remove the glue
so did you figure out the problem? it looks like maybe you came off a different location then the one you used to make the fixture. its hard to tell but for the most part i usually use the same origin i used to cut the fixture as i do for the actual part. Also for the fixture, because you cant really comp out a ball mill it probably would have fit better if you told it that the ball mill was like .001-.002 smaller then it actually is. i think its kind of like trying to fit a .250 pin in a .250 hole you know. i really like that 440 tho. its like the perfect size little mill
I would think it would effect both? Rite? Because your telling it is a different diameter so it would cut deeper and wider. Rite? Lol
Nice job timing the music and the video at 1:40 :)) Oh, and some beautiful CAD/CAM work too!!
What was the file size of that finishing pass? Basically, how detailed was that stepover? Just curious.
nice work and no worries on the cam woops...doubt theres anyone that hasnt done the same or far worse...even easy to miss on an air run because it wasnt a huge move and was at very end....that kinda stuff was the main reason the first part ever made on our mills was always a "sacrificial" bed....you can minimize it but eventualy "it" will happen just gotta hope its not a hard enough slam to trash a spindle or ball screw
like your music choice....what house music is it? i do basic cad modeling but cam is i think way over my head. it seem to me that clamping took a lot more time(and skill) than the actual machining of the workpiece itself. what if the workpiece is imbed in say gypsum. not as strong but we can do lighter cuts (just interested).
Shouldn't it say custom in your description instead of customer?
good stuff might have to try that myself
Toluene would make short work of the super glue and it's fast.....great vid as per usual :)
iv'e used it to dissolve 2 pot epoxy and contact adhesive make really short work of those plus it evaporates pretty fast in sunlight
Awesome stuff :-)
At 5:27 I instinctively reached for an emergency stop.
+NYC CNC what holding method do u recomend for machining a sheet ? i have done some steel sheet and acrylic sheet works on my hobby router and i couldnt find a way to hold the sheet tight and rigid enough to not cause chatter
+minimovzEt Carpet tape, 3M VHB tape, vacuum pallet or figure out where the tool isn't going and put screws into a fixture plate. I have used all of these methods successfully on thin materials.
Kenneth Higley have u had any problem with the bit going trough tapes ? i am using this method right now and i worry a bit going trough it and i dont know like stuck some tape in the bit and fucks up the finishing
Nah should be fine. But if you're worried, try to position the tape in places the tool doesn't go.
Why wasn't your finger already over the feed hold button?
The only disappointment I have had from using superglue this way is that it can be strong enough to hold the part against warping from stress relief after milling and then once the glue is released the part curls up like a potato chip.
I have been lurking around your channel for a while. love your videos. love the honesty of your videos. I am planing on building my own cnc in the coming months. kind of a bootstrap process. btw, what kind of business are you in? that is if you don't mind me asking.
360make program not good
FIRST! COOL peace! (sic)
Nitromethane can be used as a solvent for cured superglue. (better than acetone)
Killer video. Things don't always go as expected when you are plowing new ground. Consider turning off the auto focus. What camera are you using? Awesome detail. Thanks!
Try leaving something that will allow you to locate the part. I believe that your negative would work just fine, however it was not made to spec. Super glue worked great, but as you know the negative was off. PS, You may want to be able to write per CNC on paper work when doing a checklist of dimensions for you customers. 100 inch per minute is fast and you may not be able to hold a + or - .001 tolerance with your machine at this speed.
+adithmart PS, I learn a lot from your channel.
Is that a Magyar Vizsla in the background?
Was this on your 1100 or 440?
+Pete Brown 440
+Impyman18 Thanks. Pretty impressive. I keep feeling like the 440 is a huge compromise compared to the 770 or 1100, but you've been showing it off well, and doing some great work on it.
+NYC CNC It's the travel, especially on Z. If you wanted to put a rotary table in there, it looks like you'd be extremely limited in what you could handle. I imagine if you add the ATC, you cut in even more. From your demos, it looks like it has the power to do real work, though. :)
It puts me in the mind of trying to figure out if the extra travel is worth another $10k, and if you get better rigidity etc. as part of that.
I'm late to the party. CA, superglue, gets brittle when cold. Popping it in the freezer for a few will help it release easier.
Glad to see you don't edit out visits from Bozo!
I'll say hi from you next time he is spotted in my shop.. :P
If I have a coffee and donut problem would you help me?..
How do you like the FogBuster compared to the Trico? Thanks for the videos.
did you increase the fps? looks way good.
Please do some copper machining! :D I can send you a model of a part That I need done if ya want :D
nice opps at the end! so you are human:) Try putting a hole on your fixture off to the side for a register of x/y and then use the face for z. Also don't cut/mod your fixture after machining that will cause a lot of error. Just cut the fixture to a negative stock of about .001 or so. Boiling water works really well to get super glue to release. And my sister is a vet tech and they use 'super glue' all the time on animals and you can by a spray on band aid product called new skin, works awesome. Can't believe your don't have any in the shop med bay!
+Widget Works Manufacturing Inc. If you think Nuskin is great, try a product called "WoundSeal". It is a powdered band aid of sorts. It dissolves as you heal.
Ahh I hate in explicable CAM surprises!
+War Machine LLC Not inexplicable at all. I saw it coming in the CAM video (but obviously my shouting at the screen didn't help :P) at the 8:17 mark. John was naughty and didn't simulate the final toolpath before posting the code. Tsk tsk! Otherwise, he would have found the error.
The fix to that in HSM for 3D profiling operations is to use the "touch/no touch" options. Another option would be to set the bottom height of the toolpath to a thou abovem the fixture. If he had told the operation not to touch the fixture, the gouge would not have happened.
fucking lost it at 5:28 :P
"Crazy how strong this stuff is." Is that why they call it Krazy Glue?
John
have you found out what caused the gouge at the start and end of the cutting?
also did you hit the stop? would it have carried on ?
if its a fusion cam problem i would be concerned as i have a smiler job on the beam for a scale beam engine and have a good few hours in the part up to now
keep up the great vids i have learnt a lot as i have only got a CNC mill a month ago
Stuart
+Stuart Hardy You can see the vertical plunge (yellow means rapid) at 8:36 in his CAM video, and I was practically yelling at my screen for him to catch it. I thought he would have and was just making the video shorter by skipping over it. Nope. Could have been easily avoided by setting a minimum height (also the gouge into the fixture at the beginning of the Morph Spiral toolpath) as well as setting his Fixture in the Setup to see those more readily in the simulation.
+atomkinder67
thanks for the heads up being new to fusion things have not gelled yet but i am leaning slowly ( at 68 ) it takes a wee bit longer but i will take another look at the other vid so i can spot it on my projects
Stuart
NYC CNC It's all a learning experience! I simulate religiously before running a program, and I've found that HSM and Fusion have a little different way of doing things than other CAM software packages I've used.
XD it's not really a tip because you probably know it but XD always dry run you program XD
type in: xd smiley. on google images than you know what i mean with that.