Your method of using Blender to render the AFM height data yields the most professional looking height visualizations I've seen in my 16 years of science. After introducing you to optimal color map design, you're showing me new tricks. :)
I love how one guy in a garage have all this nice equipment. I am doing a PHD in experimental physics, and I have to make metalic pieces by hand, one could only dream!
Kern are good, but @nanotechsys6311 (Moore Special Tool Company's spinoff brand) are one of the few companies that make those real commercial diamond turning lathes & diamond mills. And jig grinders and...
Why would he need a sponsor? I mean, he'd either have to have a job that allows access to all this supremely expensive equipment, be privately funded, or rich as fk.. in any case a sponsor clearly isn't necessary.
What you're calling the "rake angle" is normally called the "cutting edge angle". Rake is the angle of the face that the chip rolls over, relative to the normal of the cutting plane.
Glad to see MCD and diamond machining getting the large scale attention it deserves. My master plan is slowly working 😁 Edit: Just got to the end of the video! Thanks for the holler!
yes but no. There are people actually doing more complex things DIY, you just don't consider them as people but corporations and groups. Everyone is doing this stuff DIY, using whatever they can/want from others while figuring it out for themselves. Though there's countless individuals or groups advancing technology whether for their own fun or for an end objective (this case seemed to be both). This stuff is not difficult to understand and do, It just requires you to understand what's going on well enough to achieve the results you desire, which is true for any aspect of life. Figure out some basis that you can work outwards from and expand your knowledge as you develop capability. Have some confidence to try stuff and learn through trial and error, there's no other teacher really. What is the difference between a Master and an Apprentice? A Master has failed more times than the Apprentice has ever tried.
If your metal is impure with gritty bits but you can machine extremely precisely, then maybe deposit some ultra pure layer on top and machine half of that?
Ah yeah, that's a point I completely forgot to mention! A layer of electroplated nickel is commonly used in the diamond turning field. It's apparently a bit of a pain to turn nicely (nickel isn't the most fun to machine in general) but it's hard and can be plated in a very pure form.
@@BreakingTaps you should be able to get silver on copper without much trouble. You may even want to look into... Tin. Unfortunately oxidation will hit fast, so either it's prototyping only or you'd need some coating
Awesome work and fantastic visuals!My inner voice screamed when you lifted and reset the tool in the z axis over and over, I was so excited when you addressed my thought immediately afterwards and talked about the improvements😅
You have to machine it in one motion not swirling or back and forth or whatever you're doing, that's where you're going wrong. The surface must be milled to zero tolerance then slowly cut one pass but first put a bevel on the edge of the copper so you're not starting from flat and presenting a chip from the start. I've been involved in industrial mechanics and CNC machining for more than 30 years.
This is just so cool. Just a middle aged guy admiring your work. I especially like how you talk through your process and problem solve. I'm sure many hours went into your research..setup..tests etc. A admire your tenacity with a project like this. Really cool to see. Thank you
Video sugestion: would be fun to see you rank your projects in a tier list. As you develop you workshop in the highest level of "DIYness" I think some of the projects have become, although amazing, so out of proportion from what mortals call a DIY that we cant even begin to apreciate your work the way we should. I think a tier list would be a good video to reconect with the mortal plane and maybe incentivise some of us to ascend too (Hope you don't mind the jokes). Could be in a scale of technical or theoretical difficulty, "coolness", satisfaction of the end result, affordability, etc. Anyway, your channel is awesome.
Hi! Want to try something to improve surface finish with a MCDT? Coat the surface to be finished with a Sharpie marker. Learned by accident from a co-worker that partially coated a surface. The blue spots of sharpie stood out, even if the tool cut the surface. It was shinier than the uncoated surface. We then discovered that there is search papers written about surface tension induced by an adhesive ( such as glue stick, sharpie, paint marker,etc). It was found to improve surface finish. Let me know if you try it 👍 As always, I really enjoyed your videos , fantastic work 🤘
This checks out from experience of 3D printing. Essentially, any differences at all that the machine encounters in the surface of the material being cut must impact the cutting process, however slightly, and therefore must impact the finish.. By coating the cut surface in sacrificial adhesive, you are decreasing the contrast between the cutting tool encountering a high spot, especially if coated, with surface tension as a factor, vs freely spinning over a low spot with no surface tension.
Thats wild! It does make some sense, and is about the lowest barrier of entry to put it to the test., Except that the mist cooling or spray bottle with isopropyl might cause an issue with that. I hope he gives it a test if he ends up seeing the comment!
@@connorjohnson4402 alcohol will certainly dilute the ink, we used an odourless solvent instead. The blue Dykem liquid is a lot similar to Sharpie's blue ink. Both cleans up really well with methanol, leaving a dry and clean surface the the part.
It's open source, as in royalty-free and freely to use parts of it within the licensing. But this project has quite the barrier of entry, and is likely more interesting for engineering schools or small university labs. Bringing the entry cost down from millions to several thousands is quite a feat, though.
@0:33. THAT machine is what scientists use to create a Bose-Einstein Condensate. They use the lasers to cool down the sodium atoms and use evaporative cooling to do the job.
Try Tellurium copper it is a free machining alloy. Some machines have servo amplifier gain noise that can cause the chattering or its just the ball screw bearings. If possible try cutting on the Y axis to see which axis is worse. Heck even a compound motion to see if it will eliminate it. could be machine harmonics. Great video !!!!
As a 20 year machinist that does the complete opposite end of the spectrum(I'll spin a 100,000lbs assembly on a 12ft swing lathe and take chips the size of your spindle), and I appreciate how cool this stuff is. I do some small stuff too, but the smallest is like drilling 0.015" holes, or holding +/-0.000¹", not a few nanometers lol
Since the annealing process for copper involves heating it until it glows incandescently, that would suggest that you'd need temperatures far above the autoignition temperature of isopropanol to cause any meaningful softening. And while turning your mist cooler into a flamethrower _does_ sound entertaining, surely it would be easier to anneal the copper prior to any machining steps.
0:00-3:45 and as a CNC-machinist I'm already blown away... just WOW! Thank you for sharing this great knowledge in such immaculate quality, you got a new Sub ^^
Absolutely amazing video, thank you! The absolute thickness of the resulting chip isn't necessarily correlated to the absolute depth of cut - you can see this difference in your video where you cut metal inside an electron microscope. There are also some videos from roughly the 40s that show this. You can also tell some information about this from the texture of the inside of the chips - there is lots of compressive stress as the texture is very rough but the outside is smooth. That rough surface would have been smooth before the cut assuming you'd have machined it already (which you must have in order to get uniform chips to measure). This is perhaps a long-winded way of explaining why the chips end up coiled - because of the compressive stress causing the material to yield and permanently deform.
We still have quite a lot of milling machines that technically use hydrostatic ways (they have central lubrication that maintains oil pressure) I’d claim. They have excellent stiffness and wear resistance when under high loads, such as stainless and hardmilling. As I can achieve 0,25um Ra in aluminium using non-polished carbide inserts, I’d reckon those machines would be absolutely perfect for making mirrors. Diamond MCD tooling is ubiquitous these days, but more on lathes than milling machines. Ive just never tried it.
This was really good. I watched your short video on these mirrors and had so many questions and doubts. You answered all my questions and doubts with this video. Nicely explained, excellent footage!
Don't forget, the ball screws are turned by brushless DC motors. Not steppers but still have a certain "step" to them based on how expensive the drives are. They are digital and will produce "steps" even if we can't see them or hear them.
Probably an easier & cheaper method is sputtering copper\alum. over glass or sillicon wafer, then glue them to the a machined metal part with the correct angles needed. Consider that precision telescope mirrors are made this way.
This is fascinating. Flatness and smoothness is something I got a great appretiation of plastering a wall. Both together are hard. Those tiny cutting chips are so cool, Stunning micrographs. The shaping machine. Hand powered shapers are available, used to make geko skin moulds and internal gears. Analysis of chip thickness I've never seen before, the difference of the roughness of the two sides is amazing. To see the ball bearing difference and runout in the face was beautiful.
what about using lapping to attain the final surface? something something 3 plate method, but with your stepped mirrors.. awesome stuff all the same, thanks for sharing ✨
Sure, lapping would work. But at the start of the video he explains that he's using high purity copper because the paper he's referencing claims that acceptable surface finishes can be attained with machining alone, without the need for additional polishing steps.
Amazing video! Thanks for including all the images from your precision instruments. I'm still working in thousandths, so it amazes me to behold the world of micron scale.
The reason you can't find larger stock of ultra pure aluminum is because it's sale is restricted a bit since it is used in the nuclear fission field since aluminum is one of the few materials that neutron radiation doesn't cause to degrade since it returns to aluminum after it decays from being given all those extra neutrons. As such the smaller pieces are probably being recycled rapidly to keep the prices low so you aren't going to find cutoffs since collecting small cutoffs over time through multiple channels is one method to circumvent anti-proliferation treaties. Again, people trying to kill each other ruins perfectly good science and economic solutions to problems.
I think it's more to do with the fact that there isn't a demand. The biggest consumers of aluminum are the transportation manufactures and they don't want pure aluminum they want specific alloys in dimensional stock.
@@TurboLoveTrain That too. Pure aluminum stock isn't really all that useful outside of the nuclear industry and some very select industrial applications, so it is a secondary reason for not finding it.
Huh, yunno it might be! It's technically a "Blue Forest" from Asvine off Amazon, but looks like it might just be a rebrand? Writes great though, and sturdy enough to withstand some abuse int he shop 😅 Have a sampler pack of inks from different vendors that I'm slowly working through, but the big bottles I use often are "Heart of Darkness", "#41 Brown" and "Blue Black" all from Noodler's.
@@BreakingTapsAsvine and Hongdian are both just "design" houses. The parts, as with most Chinese fp brands, are all made at one plant. It's the reason you'll see so much interchangeability amongst them. The blue forest is a copy of an Otto Hutt D04
this is so fucking good and packed with information. but i never got bored. you jsut added weirder and weirder tools. "ill just pop it into my electron microscope. i never leave home without one." -Oh whats that? in my other back pocket? - "oh thats just my atomic force microscope, had it since i was 12"
Working at a company using diamond machining for optical mirrors, I can state you can produce Luminum mirrors using monocrystaline diamond tools. We use a method called flycutting. Our machines do have air bearings and air bearing spindles. Hydrostatic bearings are also possible but more expensive and complicated. Ruling is also possible. You can even machine brittle materials like glas if the infeed is low enough (about 50 to 100nm). As long as you stay in the ductile regime. Fly cutting or single point diamond turning or ruling with mkd (mono krystalline diamond) tool can achieve about Ra 5nm in aluminum (we use EN AW6082, 6061 and 6060) 2hile in oxygen free copper we can achieve about 1-2nm Ra. If you use a electroless nickel Ra of less 1nm is possible
I waa expecting a rabbit hole spin-off where you'd invent a piezo-driven nano clapper box to overcome the Z-error on retraction 😂. Fascinating process and astounding work- got any video of the laser bouncing off the fresnel mirror?
Silver braze, problem is oxidation of diamond. It burnes, slow but does. Inert gas shilding or polishing after. It looks like milky glass after oxidation
Very cool video, love this. I feel like having the metal colder would help bonds be stiffer but at the same time more stiffness would make jaged breakouts. Warmer metal would be softer but then you form pools of metal that bunch up in front of the tool. What if everything was very cold but introduce very high vibration on the head so you only heat up whats being scraped off the surface. Optics are tough, this was a great watch and gets the brain going to achieve the ultimate finish. The vibrations will probably cause so many other issues in surface finish. Just due to the tooling bending from side to side chaging cutting angle and the inertia in the tooling machines... would be awesome to experiment like you, this is a very rewarding experiment!
The humble hardworking genius is back at it again, doing things that the majority of us had no idea were even possible. Some banger tunes on this video too. I had to Shazam the outro song.
We are cutting lacquers and DMM copper plates with diamond cutter with 3μm rim. With that knowledge available from record cutting the procedure to determine the optimal rake angle of the cutter to avoid the chip being a problem is known in our craft You do almost do the same thing , just in a different field and down to the nanometer dimensions. - we remain just about still in the μm world - well done, great what you proofed and found independently and a worthwhile video
As the video was going I was doing my own commentary, then as it progressed you addressed what I was saying. I had to make a part for a very well known "Place" we will say. I have a small desktop sub 200 pound aluminum framed machine. Its highly accurate, but with the specs on the part I was doing I found that if I heated my machine in an enclosure just above 300 degrees F I would not get any thermal expansion. It took me over 3 months of trial and error to machine pillars in a substrate that was less then 25 microns tall. You did a great job. One thing I did have to do and was thinking a solution to the differences in copper harness was tempering each substrate before trying to machine them. My though was "Level the playing field"
Watching you do stuff that I'd never consider in my wildest dreams to be DIY possible gives me similar feelings to watching Mythbusters back in the day. I'm just amazed.
My jaw was on the floor with your opening shot. Fascinating stuff to someone whose run-of-the-mill surface finish is a 4" angle grinder or maybe the da sander if I'm feeling particularly fussy. Appreciate your output fella, keep it up! ✌ 🇦🇺
Sunshine is delicious, rain is refreshing, wind braces us up, snow is exhilarating; there is really no such thing as bad weather, only different kinds of good weather.
This is impressive. Even more being it's your own setup. Diamond turning is a really interesting method of creating optical surfaces, and I'm very interested how your v1 trap worked out!
This is excellent, other than using metric lol Regarding the end goal of this process, that's fantastic, there's no reason we should have to rely on others to discover when we can figure things out ourselves! Indeed realizing that soon if not already humanity will be able to precisely measure the universe and it's gravity has so much potential. The more people and locations that can measure info, the better we ll understand reality, what makes it shift and change place to place moment to moment. Yet Man must develop percision as to peer deeper into the void, which entitles it's own developments of comprehension, exactly how this video shows a solution needed and progressed towards it. having stated that, Man need not measure and record things to know it, yet allows him to lock in those results to reality and build upon those details.
From my brother..... That is quite interesting and very cool. There is one more thing that might have caused his wavy appearance - stiction (caused by the co-efficient of friction being higher when stationary than moving). I remember from reading an Amateur Scientist in a Scientific American way back that there are materials that have, in effect, negative stiction (where the coefficient of friction is less when stationary than when moving). The guy in the AS article used that type of material in effect as the “ways” on his scriber for scribing a diffraction grating.
I remember an awesome video showing scribing done on DIY CNC mill, including fine control of the spindle for direction changes. Had a hunt but couldn't find it. It occurs to me that an obvious option for improving the finish of your mirrors is to create a lapping tool with the same technique. Those little scratches and waves would polish right out in a few minutes and I'm sure you could get a near perfect mirror finish if you're careful.
Copper likes a positive rake for cutting, with you using a flat tool with full width contact when shaping, keep the tool length as short as possible. In you milling operation to stop the milling marks you could try putting a wiper flat at the bottom of the tool. So instead of the clearance going for the cutting edge to to the centre create a small flat thats parallel to the cut surface the will wipe the peaks off. The flat of .15 - .2 mm if you can produce this on your lapping machine. Regarding the movement in the 'Z' axis just set the depth and plot a path around the component.
*Diamond Scribing: Creating Optical Mirrors for Quantum Devices* * *0:19** Open-Source Quantum Project:* The video showcases the creation of a mirror for an open-source Magneto-Optical Trap (MOT) project, aiming to make quantum experiments more accessible. * *0:50** Traditional MOT vs Fresnel Mirror:* Traditional MOTs use six lasers, making alignment difficult. The Fresnel mirror design reflects a single laser back on itself, simplifying alignment and reducing the device's size. * *1:56** Monocrystalline Diamond Tool:* The key to achieving a mirror-like finish is the use of a monocrystalline diamond tool, known for its sharpness and durability. * *3:00** Initial Testing with Aluminum:* Initial tests on aluminum revealed swirl marks and material tear-out due to impurities in the alloy. Sourcing pure aluminum in suitable sizes can be challenging. * *4:11** Switching to Copper:* Copper, being purer and more readily available in suitable forms, produced a smoother surface with fewer imperfections. * *5:00** Optical Surface Requirements:* The video emphasizes the stringent flatness and roughness requirements of optical surfaces, measured in nanometers. * *6:40** Diamond Scribing Process:* The process involves precise CNC machining with a diamond tool, utilizing a mist coolant system to remove chips and maintain surface quality. * *11:00** Challenges of High-Speed Machining:* High-speed machining, while faster, introduces heat and vibration that can negatively impact the final surface quality. * *11:41** Low-Speed Machining (Diamond Shaping):* The video explores using the diamond tool like a shaping tool (no spindle rotation) to minimize vibration and thermal effects. This method produced promising results but introduced new artifacts. * *13:53** Waviness, Not Chatter:* The apparent "chatter" marks are actually very small waviness, likely caused by the inherent motion error of the CNC machine's axis. Professional diamond turning machines often use hydrostatic ways to mitigate this issue. * *16:00** Z-Axis Movement and Chip Thickness Inaccuracies:* Repeated Z-axis movements during machining can introduce errors, leading to inconsistencies in chip thickness and potentially contributing to surface imperfections. * *16:31** Material Hardness and Tear-Out:* Using softer-temper copper significantly reduced the tear-out issue observed with harder copper. * *17:01** Final Optimized Process:* The final optimized process involves a positive rake angle on the diamond tool, mist coolant, and a modified tool path with minimal Z-axis movement. * *18:11** Final Surface Quality:* The final surface achieved a roughness of around 13nm, a significant improvement over initial attempts. * *18:50** Diamond Turning Lathes:* The video concludes by highlighting the capabilities of diamond turning lathes for creating even higher-quality optical surfaces and complex shapes. [From Comments] This type of lathe can produce micron-level accuracy and is often used for specialized optics applications. I used gemini-1.5-pro-exp-0801 to summarize the transcript. Cost (if I didn't use the free tier): $0.09 Input tokens: 23730 Output tokens: 647
6:39 the following part almost fits to the rhythm! Amazing technology. I can only try to imagine what we could make with that. Like tiny versions of bigger instruments, without much more engineering but magnitudes of order more precise.
Great video, but I have to know, what's the music around 3:02, 6:24 and 18:09? Edit: Video content was changed, timestamps are now 2:42, 6:04 and 17:49. 2:42 - "Memories" by Letra 6:04 - ? 17:49 - "Summer Breakup Song" by Aves
You could try electropolishing the mirror to try improving the finish. Don't know if it would help, but it might. You could also try ion beam sputter polishing too.
Oh man, would've loved to show my granddad this video. He was an oldschool aerospace engineer with a metal machining hobby. Someone doing this on their own would've blown his mind.
I paused your video when you mentioned hydrostatic bearings to go learn more about it and then deja vu when I got to the ending of your video to see Cylo's footage that I just watched!
the coolest part of these IMO is how strong the binding is between the carbon lattice and the metal that holds the cutting bit.. Basically the carbon lattice is formed electrochemically and this essentially works as the strongest glue ever
That spiral chip is so satisfying to watch, and darn is that surface finish good. I'd have thought you would have run into the limits of the machine with a finish somewhere near the first sample you showed, those early samples for a normal mill where already really quite good. So I'm really impressed how much further you could get it with some thoughtful iterations on the techniques - I don't think I'd have even thought to try and push that machine that far (though my experience may be marred by the comparative low quality of my mill). Still with the goal of a mirror in mind I think I'd have have been using the CNC to rough cut the blanks and create a bespoke shaper to do the final finish with...
Super cool video! It was a good point avoiding the z axis to move. If the servomotors of you machine axis have mecanical brake, maybe there is an Mxx code in the gcode of your machine to lock the axis with the brake. At this level of precision maybe the loop control of the servos might be noticeable.
Simpler solution to your z movements and increase productivity. If you can't add a repeatable clapper like on a shaper, spin the tool 180 at the end of a cut and cut a second mirror on the return pass. More complex, but could potentially go so far as to daisy chain several mirrors radially too so your tool path is effectively a polygon.
Having heard you talk about the temper of the copper stock it occurred to me that it would be easy enough to anneal the copper stock by simply heating it with a torch until it's red hot and letting it cool back to room temperature on it's own. This insures consistently soft material to work with.
From cnc mill to shaper lol. Did you check out shaper tool design/geometry? There are times where iv seen wayyyy more extreme rake being used for finish cuts on shapers. like edge being 5° off parallel with the direction of motion lol so maybe going even farther instead of back to 0 is the way. Seems unlikely without changing any other geometry though.
Those tiny chips under the electron microscope are so cool!! Also a 2.5 micron finishing pass is INSANE. Great video as always dude!
Aren't they just the most adorable little chips?! I was so delighted to see them as fully formed chips, just smol 🥺
@@BreakingTaps It reminds me of smashing a bag of chips to make micro chips 😂😂
BPS + BT is I collaborated I would die for
@@BreakingTaps they're very cool
BPS in the house.
Have a fun and hope filled Labor Day Weekend everyone!
Your method of using Blender to render the AFM height data yields the most professional looking height visualizations I've seen in my 16 years of science. After introducing you to optimal color map design, you're showing me new tricks. :)
14:18
Ironbow color is the CLUT used on thermal cameras and its gorgeous.
@@beautifulsmall What's CLUT?
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 Color Lookup Table
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017/videos colour-look-up-table?
I'm only guessing
I love how one guy in a garage have all this nice equipment. I am doing a PHD in experimental physics, and I have to make metalic pieces by hand, one could only dream!
Like with a Dremel?
@@unknownhours very hard fingernails
UA-cam does make it feel like everyone owns an electron microscope.
@@unknownhours yeah, or a bit bigger handdrill and saw.
@@happytoaster1 where do procure electron microscope
No sponsor?? @KernMicrotechnikGmbH where you at? Get this man on a plane!
This needs a bump!
Eh. Just get him a Kern mill. You know, for “review”.
Kern are good, but @nanotechsys6311 (Moore Special Tool Company's spinoff brand) are one of the few companies that make those real commercial diamond turning lathes & diamond mills. And jig grinders and...
👍👍
Why would he need a sponsor?
I mean, he'd either have to have a job that allows access to all this supremely expensive equipment, be privately funded, or rich as fk.. in any case a sponsor clearly isn't necessary.
What you're calling the "rake angle" is normally called the "cutting edge angle". Rake is the angle of the face that the chip rolls over, relative to the normal of the cutting plane.
Whoops, that's my bad. Cheers for the correection!
A lollypop is in fact not related to underage media or to soda drinks or popular music.
Also do not confuse rake angle with hoe mounting.
Hey! If you're ever interested in other cool crystals (like big chunks of optical sapphire) I'd be happy to send you some.
Aye, I should have known I’d see you around this part of UA-cam too
What a nice surprise!
Woah, ATG in the wild. Hella cool of you to offer him some material for toying with.
Ummm…..I’m interested in other cool crystals 😬😳
Hey it's the 💎 🐢
Glad to see MCD and diamond machining getting the large scale attention it deserves. My master plan is slowly working 😁
Edit: Just got to the end of the video! Thanks for the holler!
You've introduced me to a very dangerous and deep rabbit hole 😅
The microscope shots in your videos are always fascinating. It's a view that I never get to see in the rest of my life
this is the highest level of DYI
Do yourself it?
@@soulextracter do yourself innit?
@@lerikhklThat’s not cricket
Dogs Yawning Indubitably
yes but no. There are people actually doing more complex things DIY, you just don't consider them as people but corporations and groups. Everyone is doing this stuff DIY, using whatever they can/want from others while figuring it out for themselves. Though there's countless individuals or groups advancing technology whether for their own fun or for an end objective (this case seemed to be both).
This stuff is not difficult to understand and do, It just requires you to understand what's going on well enough to achieve the results you desire, which is true for any aspect of life. Figure out some basis that you can work outwards from and expand your knowledge as you develop capability. Have some confidence to try stuff and learn through trial and error, there's no other teacher really. What is the difference between a Master and an Apprentice? A Master has failed more times than the Apprentice has ever tried.
If your metal is impure with gritty bits but you can machine extremely precisely, then maybe deposit some ultra pure layer on top and machine half of that?
Ah yeah, that's a point I completely forgot to mention! A layer of electroplated nickel is commonly used in the diamond turning field. It's apparently a bit of a pain to turn nicely (nickel isn't the most fun to machine in general) but it's hard and can be plated in a very pure form.
maybe do silver instead. Equally easy to make a silvering bath, i guess just the tarnishing could be problematic over time.
@@borntobattery Gold plating maybe? but not sure if gold would be too soft (also gold plating uses nasty cyanide salts)
@@BreakingTaps what about using the same diamond bit to burnish the copper ?
@@BreakingTaps you should be able to get silver on copper without much trouble. You may even want to look into... Tin. Unfortunately oxidation will hit fast, so either it's prototyping only or you'd need some coating
Ever since that short video few days ago I was eagerly waiting for this.. Amazing tech! Both what you did and what it's going to be used for!
Just for fun did you checked that diamond in close up to see if it doesn't have any super small surface issues?
Seems like an important oversight
Awesome work and fantastic visuals!My inner voice screamed when you lifted and reset the tool in the z axis over and over, I was so excited when you addressed my thought immediately afterwards and talked about the improvements😅
Love the way you present your work - very clear, no extraneous "noise". And nice results on the mirror shaping!
You have to machine it in one motion not swirling or back and forth or whatever you're doing, that's where you're going wrong. The surface must be milled to zero tolerance then slowly cut one pass but first put a bevel on the edge of the copper so you're not starting from flat and presenting a chip from the start. I've been involved in industrial mechanics and CNC machining for more than 30 years.
It is amazing that such level of precision can be achieved on modern regular industrial cnc.
As a telescope mirror maker, I'm just screaming screaming screaming to finish it up with a very dilute cerium oxide slurry, haha.
nekřič a zamysli se.
This is just so cool. Just a middle aged guy admiring your work.
I especially like how you talk through your process and problem solve. I'm sure many hours went into your research..setup..tests etc.
A admire your tenacity with a project like this.
Really cool to see. Thank you
Video sugestion: would be fun to see you rank your projects in a tier list. As you develop you workshop in the highest level of "DIYness" I think some of the projects have become, although amazing, so out of proportion from what mortals call a DIY that we cant even begin to apreciate your work the way we should. I think a tier list would be a good video to reconect with the mortal plane and maybe incentivise some of us to ascend too (Hope you don't mind the jokes). Could be in a scale of technical or theoretical difficulty, "coolness", satisfaction of the end result, affordability, etc. Anyway, your channel is awesome.
Wow dude, what an awesome video! The cinematography must've taken ages. Thanks for bringing the world of machining to life💪
We found, when doing ultra high resolution scans, that the ball screw lubrication made a heck of a difference.
The type or amount of lube--or as simple as just making sure the screw looked thoroughly coated?
Hi! Want to try something to improve surface finish with a MCDT? Coat the surface to be finished with a Sharpie marker.
Learned by accident from a co-worker that partially coated a surface. The blue spots of sharpie stood out, even if the tool cut the surface. It was shinier than the uncoated surface.
We then discovered that there is search papers written about surface tension induced by an adhesive ( such as glue stick, sharpie, paint marker,etc). It was found to improve surface finish.
Let me know if you try it 👍
As always, I really enjoyed your videos , fantastic work 🤘
This checks out from experience of 3D printing. Essentially, any differences at all that the machine encounters in the surface of the material being cut must impact the cutting process, however slightly, and therefore must impact the finish..
By coating the cut surface in sacrificial adhesive, you are decreasing the contrast between the cutting tool encountering a high spot, especially if coated, with surface tension as a factor, vs freely spinning over a low spot with no surface tension.
Thats wild! It does make some sense, and is about the lowest barrier of entry to put it to the test., Except that the mist cooling or spray bottle with isopropyl might cause an issue with that. I hope he gives it a test if he ends up seeing the comment!
@@connorjohnson4402 alcohol will certainly dilute the ink, we used an odourless solvent instead. The blue Dykem liquid is a lot similar to Sharpie's blue ink. Both cleans up really well with methanol, leaving a dry and clean surface the the part.
How nice that quantum technology will finally be more accessible to us average joes. Dusting off my old 2 micron milling machine.
It's open source, as in royalty-free and freely to use parts of it within the licensing. But this project has quite the barrier of entry, and is likely more interesting for engineering schools or small university labs. Bringing the entry cost down from millions to several thousands is quite a feat, though.
It does make it way more accessible to phds and postdocs who have access to otherwise well equipped labs to build on.
OMFG those baby curls!! :D I never thought I would think of a metal shaving as "cute", but here we are!
Old and tired: milling chips measured in mm.
Fresh and shiny: milling chips measured in μm.
@0:33. THAT machine is what scientists use to create a Bose-Einstein Condensate. They use the lasers to cool down the sodium atoms and use evaporative cooling to do the job.
Try Tellurium copper it is a free machining alloy. Some machines have servo amplifier gain noise that can cause the chattering or its just the ball screw bearings. If possible try cutting on the Y axis to see which axis is worse. Heck even a compound motion to see if it will eliminate it. could be machine harmonics. Great video !!!!
Sorry, your "Huge 8 micron" chips made me giglgesnort... These high precision tools and projects are amazing thanks for the vid.
I love the contrast where there's atomic force microscopy and that mist cooling setup in the same video.
Homer: "Uuuuhhh! ... Atomic mist cooling!"
How about the cameo of the hand dispensed squirt bottle of rubbing alcohol for the first scribing test?
As a 20 year machinist that does the complete opposite end of the spectrum(I'll spin a 100,000lbs assembly on a 12ft swing lathe and take chips the size of your spindle), and I appreciate how cool this stuff is. I do some small stuff too, but the smallest is like drilling 0.015" holes, or holding +/-0.000¹", not a few nanometers lol
Thank you so much. This is an absolutely amazing field of science 😁
🥰
Super cool video and very clearly explaned!
Since softer copper worked better, would heating up the copper help make it softer at all? Like blasting heated isopropyl and air at it
Since the annealing process for copper involves heating it until it glows incandescently, that would suggest that you'd need temperatures far above the autoignition temperature of isopropanol to cause any meaningful softening. And while turning your mist cooler into a flamethrower _does_ sound entertaining, surely it would be easier to anneal the copper prior to any machining steps.
14:40 my face when microscopically planing copper with a single-crystal diamond tool gives you tearout like cherry burl.
it's the same all the way down, mannnn
0:00-3:45 and as a CNC-machinist I'm already blown away... just WOW! Thank you for sharing this great knowledge in such immaculate quality, you got a new Sub ^^
Absolutely amazing video, thank you!
The absolute thickness of the resulting chip isn't necessarily correlated to the absolute depth of cut - you can see this difference in your video where you cut metal inside an electron microscope. There are also some videos from roughly the 40s that show this. You can also tell some information about this from the texture of the inside of the chips - there is lots of compressive stress as the texture is very rough but the outside is smooth. That rough surface would have been smooth before the cut assuming you'd have machined it already (which you must have in order to get uniform chips to measure). This is perhaps a long-winded way of explaining why the chips end up coiled - because of the compressive stress causing the material to yield and permanently deform.
Thanks!
We still have quite a lot of milling machines that technically use hydrostatic ways (they have central lubrication that maintains oil pressure) I’d claim. They have excellent stiffness and wear resistance when under high loads, such as stainless and hardmilling. As I can achieve 0,25um Ra in aluminium using non-polished carbide inserts, I’d reckon those machines would be absolutely perfect for making mirrors. Diamond MCD tooling is ubiquitous these days, but more on lathes than milling machines. Ive just never tried it.
This was really good. I watched your short video on these mirrors and had so many questions and doubts. You answered all my questions and doubts with this video. Nicely explained, excellent footage!
Don't forget, the ball screws are turned by brushless DC motors. Not steppers but still have a certain "step" to them based on how expensive the drives are. They are digital and will produce "steps" even if we can't see them or hear them.
AC Servos are more common nowdays and i think the linear guides play a bigger role but your point is still valid. 👍🏼
@@thomas8719 whats the difference between a brushless dc motor that is precisely controlled and an ac servo?
@@vornamenachname8001I may be wrong but I believe the servos have encoders built into them whereas a brushless motor doesn’t necessarily.
Dawg..... Ive only seen like 3 of your videos so far, but the quality is just insane. This is becoming one of my favorite channels
Probably an easier & cheaper method is sputtering copper\alum. over glass or sillicon wafer, then glue them to the a machined metal part with the correct angles needed. Consider that precision telescope mirrors are made this way.
I love that the internet has enabled us to do things like crowd-source the funding for a postdoc in materials science and metrology.
19:17 Quality over quantity 👍
The YT recommendations I receive are often mediocre, but once in a blue moon I get gems like this video of yours. Impressive!
oooh sparkly
This is fascinating. Flatness and smoothness is something I got a great appretiation of plastering a wall. Both together are hard. Those tiny cutting chips are so cool, Stunning micrographs. The shaping machine. Hand powered shapers are available, used to make geko skin moulds and internal gears. Analysis of chip thickness I've never seen before, the difference of the roughness of the two sides is amazing. To see the ball bearing difference and runout in the face was beautiful.
what about using lapping to attain the final surface? something something 3 plate method, but with your stepped mirrors.. awesome stuff all the same, thanks for sharing ✨
Sure, lapping would work. But at the start of the video he explains that he's using high purity copper because the paper he's referencing claims that acceptable surface finishes can be attained with machining alone, without the need for additional polishing steps.
Amazing video! Thanks for including all the images from your precision instruments. I'm still working in thousandths, so it amazes me to behold the world of micron scale.
The reason you can't find larger stock of ultra pure aluminum is because it's sale is restricted a bit since it is used in the nuclear fission field since aluminum is one of the few materials that neutron radiation doesn't cause to degrade since it returns to aluminum after it decays from being given all those extra neutrons. As such the smaller pieces are probably being recycled rapidly to keep the prices low so you aren't going to find cutoffs since collecting small cutoffs over time through multiple channels is one method to circumvent anti-proliferation treaties.
Again, people trying to kill each other ruins perfectly good science and economic solutions to problems.
I think it's more to do with the fact that there isn't a demand.
The biggest consumers of aluminum are the transportation manufactures and they don't want pure aluminum they want specific alloys in dimensional stock.
@@TurboLoveTrain That too. Pure aluminum stock isn't really all that useful outside of the nuclear industry and some very select industrial applications, so it is a secondary reason for not finding it.
Being able to see things like this that i didn't know existed and is so niche and fascinating is why i love youtube
Wait, is that a HongDian blackforrest in EF? That is a very nice choice of pen! What is your ink of choice?
Huh, yunno it might be! It's technically a "Blue Forest" from Asvine off Amazon, but looks like it might just be a rebrand? Writes great though, and sturdy enough to withstand some abuse int he shop 😅 Have a sampler pack of inks from different vendors that I'm slowly working through, but the big bottles I use often are "Heart of Darkness", "#41 Brown" and "Blue Black" all from Noodler's.
@@BreakingTapstry noodlers Bay State Blue. Trust me
@@BreakingTapsAsvine and Hongdian are both just "design" houses. The parts, as with most Chinese fp brands, are all made at one plant. It's the reason you'll see so much interchangeability amongst them. The blue forest is a copy of an Otto Hutt D04
this is so fucking good and packed with information. but i never got bored. you jsut added weirder and weirder tools.
"ill just pop it into my electron microscope. i never leave home without one."
-Oh whats that? in my other back pocket?
- "oh thats just my atomic force microscope, had it since i was 12"
8:58 UA-cam captions "Far Cry" with capitals like the video game.
Or the badass song by Rush!
Working at a company using diamond machining for optical mirrors, I can state you can produce Luminum mirrors using monocrystaline diamond tools. We use a method called flycutting.
Our machines do have air bearings and air bearing spindles.
Hydrostatic bearings are also possible but more expensive and complicated.
Ruling is also possible. You can even machine brittle materials like glas if the infeed is low enough (about 50 to 100nm). As long as you stay in the ductile regime.
Fly cutting or single point diamond turning or ruling with mkd (mono krystalline diamond) tool can achieve about Ra 5nm in aluminum (we use EN AW6082, 6061 and 6060) 2hile in oxygen free copper we can achieve about 1-2nm Ra. If you use a electroless nickel Ra of less 1nm is possible
I waa expecting a rabbit hole spin-off where you'd invent a piezo-driven nano clapper box to overcome the Z-error on retraction 😂.
Fascinating process and astounding work- got any video of the laser bouncing off the fresnel mirror?
I am so glad you are making this. You’re one of my favourites. Bravo.
You can braise diamond?!
Yep! Needs a special solder (forget exactly, think it's high in silver?) and brazed in vacuum or under inert gas.
How long and at what temperature? Every time I've tried they still come out rock hard, maybe I'm not using enough red wine or something?
Silver braze, problem is oxidation of diamond. It burnes, slow but does.
Inert gas shilding or polishing after.
It looks like milky glass after oxidation
@@JamesChurchill3 Do you get any issues with your teeth? My enamel is basically gone. Maybe I just have soft teeth?
@@JamesChurchill3 i think I'll stick with my charcoal grill. Something about it just seems right.
You make a lot of neat videos, but I think this might just be my favorite one yet - hitting that precision machine design part of my brain just right!
Very cool video, love this.
I feel like having the metal colder would help bonds be stiffer but at the same time more stiffness would make jaged breakouts. Warmer metal would be softer but then you form pools of metal that bunch up in front of the tool.
What if everything was very cold but introduce very high vibration on the head so you only heat up whats being scraped off the surface.
Optics are tough, this was a great watch and gets the brain going to achieve the ultimate finish.
The vibrations will probably cause so many other issues in surface finish. Just due to the tooling bending from side to side chaging cutting angle and the inertia in the tooling machines... would be awesome to experiment like you, this is a very rewarding experiment!
The humble hardworking genius is back at it again, doing things that the majority of us had no idea were even possible. Some banger tunes on this video too. I had to Shazam the outro song.
15:45 chip analysis is something i hadn't considered. Very cool.
Using the thickness of the chip as data. Clever.
We are cutting lacquers and DMM copper plates with diamond cutter with 3μm rim. With that knowledge available from record cutting the procedure to determine the optimal rake angle of the cutter to avoid the chip being a problem is known in our craft You do almost do the same thing , just in a different field and down to the nanometer dimensions. - we remain just about still in the μm world - well done, great what you proofed and found independently and a worthwhile video
Dude! Those SEM pics. Wow.
Great work with the toolpathing
As the video was going I was doing my own commentary, then as it progressed you addressed what I was saying. I had to make a part for a very well known "Place" we will say. I have a small desktop sub 200 pound aluminum framed machine. Its highly accurate, but with the specs on the part I was doing I found that if I heated my machine in an enclosure just above 300 degrees F I would not get any thermal expansion. It took me over 3 months of trial and error to machine pillars in a substrate that was less then 25 microns tall. You did a great job. One thing I did have to do and was thinking a solution to the differences in copper harness was tempering each substrate before trying to machine them. My though was "Level the playing field"
Watching you do stuff that I'd never consider in my wildest dreams to be DIY possible gives me similar feelings to watching Mythbusters back in the day. I'm just amazed.
Simply incredible.. Your content continues to astound me on every new video you release. [Chef's kiss]!
Very cool video! I was initially interested in your channel from your early machining videos and this was super cool to see it tie into that stuff.
My jaw was on the floor with your opening shot. Fascinating stuff to someone whose run-of-the-mill surface finish is a 4" angle grinder or maybe the da sander if I'm feeling particularly fussy. Appreciate your output fella, keep it up! ✌ 🇦🇺
keep doing what you're doing, its super appreciated, shine on you crazy monocrystalline diamond!
Sunshine is delicious, rain is refreshing, wind braces us up, snow is exhilarating; there is really no such thing as bad weather, only different kinds of good weather.
I always love watching your videos twice, once on Nebula, then again here so that you can get more engagement.
This is impressive. Even more being it's your own setup. Diamond turning is a really interesting method of creating optical surfaces, and I'm very interested how your v1 trap worked out!
This is excellent, other than using metric lol
Regarding the end goal of this process, that's fantastic, there's no reason we should have to rely on others to discover when we can figure things out ourselves! Indeed realizing that soon if not already humanity will be able to precisely measure the universe and it's gravity has so much potential. The more people and locations that can measure info, the better we ll understand reality, what makes it shift and change place to place moment to moment. Yet Man must develop percision as to peer deeper into the void, which entitles it's own developments of comprehension, exactly how this video shows a solution needed and progressed towards it. having stated that, Man need not measure and record things to know it, yet allows him to lock in those results to reality and build upon those details.
Could you check the diamond tip for flatness / roughness? That would be great to see in a follow up video!
From my brother.....
That is quite interesting and very cool. There is one more thing that might have caused his wavy appearance - stiction (caused by the co-efficient of friction being higher when stationary than moving). I remember from reading an Amateur Scientist in a Scientific American way back that there are materials that have, in effect, negative stiction (where the coefficient of friction is less when stationary than when moving). The guy in the AS article used that type of material in effect as the “ways” on his scriber for scribing a diffraction grating.
I remember an awesome video showing scribing done on DIY CNC mill, including fine control of the spindle for direction changes. Had a hunt but couldn't find it.
It occurs to me that an obvious option for improving the finish of your mirrors is to create a lapping tool with the same technique. Those little scratches and waves would polish right out in a few minutes and I'm sure you could get a near perfect mirror finish if you're careful.
Copper likes a positive rake for cutting, with you using a flat tool with full width contact when shaping, keep the tool length as short as possible. In you milling operation to stop the milling marks you could try putting a wiper flat at the bottom of the tool. So instead of the clearance going for the cutting edge to to the centre create a small flat thats parallel to the cut surface the will wipe the peaks off. The flat of .15 - .2 mm if you can produce this on your lapping machine. Regarding the movement in the 'Z' axis just set the depth and plot a path around the component.
Never thought I would be interested in cutting mirror surfaces with diamonds, yet here I am wanting more!
*Diamond Scribing: Creating Optical Mirrors for Quantum Devices*
* *0:19** Open-Source Quantum Project:* The video showcases the creation of a mirror for an open-source Magneto-Optical Trap (MOT) project, aiming to make quantum experiments more accessible.
* *0:50** Traditional MOT vs Fresnel Mirror:* Traditional MOTs use six lasers, making alignment difficult. The Fresnel mirror design reflects a single laser back on itself, simplifying alignment and reducing the device's size.
* *1:56** Monocrystalline Diamond Tool:* The key to achieving a mirror-like finish is the use of a monocrystalline diamond tool, known for its sharpness and durability.
* *3:00** Initial Testing with Aluminum:* Initial tests on aluminum revealed swirl marks and material tear-out due to impurities in the alloy. Sourcing pure aluminum in suitable sizes can be challenging.
* *4:11** Switching to Copper:* Copper, being purer and more readily available in suitable forms, produced a smoother surface with fewer imperfections.
* *5:00** Optical Surface Requirements:* The video emphasizes the stringent flatness and roughness requirements of optical surfaces, measured in nanometers.
* *6:40** Diamond Scribing Process:* The process involves precise CNC machining with a diamond tool, utilizing a mist coolant system to remove chips and maintain surface quality.
* *11:00** Challenges of High-Speed Machining:* High-speed machining, while faster, introduces heat and vibration that can negatively impact the final surface quality.
* *11:41** Low-Speed Machining (Diamond Shaping):* The video explores using the diamond tool like a shaping tool (no spindle rotation) to minimize vibration and thermal effects. This method produced promising results but introduced new artifacts.
* *13:53** Waviness, Not Chatter:* The apparent "chatter" marks are actually very small waviness, likely caused by the inherent motion error of the CNC machine's axis. Professional diamond turning machines often use hydrostatic ways to mitigate this issue.
* *16:00** Z-Axis Movement and Chip Thickness Inaccuracies:* Repeated Z-axis movements during machining can introduce errors, leading to inconsistencies in chip thickness and potentially contributing to surface imperfections.
* *16:31** Material Hardness and Tear-Out:* Using softer-temper copper significantly reduced the tear-out issue observed with harder copper.
* *17:01** Final Optimized Process:* The final optimized process involves a positive rake angle on the diamond tool, mist coolant, and a modified tool path with minimal Z-axis movement.
* *18:11** Final Surface Quality:* The final surface achieved a roughness of around 13nm, a significant improvement over initial attempts.
* *18:50** Diamond Turning Lathes:* The video concludes by highlighting the capabilities of diamond turning lathes for creating even higher-quality optical surfaces and complex shapes. [From Comments] This type of lathe can produce micron-level accuracy and is often used for specialized optics applications.
I used gemini-1.5-pro-exp-0801 to summarize the transcript.
Cost (if I didn't use the free tier): $0.09
Input tokens: 23730
Output tokens: 647
6:39 the following part almost fits to the rhythm!
Amazing technology. I can only try to imagine what we could make with that. Like tiny versions of bigger instruments, without much more engineering but magnitudes of order more precise.
Great video, but I have to know, what's the music around 3:02, 6:24 and 18:09?
Edit: Video content was changed, timestamps are now 2:42, 6:04 and 17:49.
2:42 - "Memories" by Letra
6:04 - ?
17:49 - "Summer Breakup Song" by Aves
18:09 Found!
Aves - Summer Breakup Song
did you ever manage to find the other tracks? 6:24 especially
@@coriae Unfortunately not so far
2:42 Found!
Letra - Memories
we all know that the acronym of MOT belongs to the Microwave Oven Transformer because it is more common and has actual use cases
This video rocks love your voice over and you sharing this for free is gold you get a 10/10
You could try electropolishing the mirror to try improving the finish. Don't know if it would help, but it might. You could also try ion beam sputter polishing too.
He doing aluminium vapour deposition in vacuum
This is so cool, I love seeing all the amazing tools you have and how sci-fi they all look.
Awesome work! Congratulations! God bless you! 🎉
Oh man, would've loved to show my granddad this video. He was an oldschool aerospace engineer with a metal machining hobby. Someone doing this on their own would've blown his mind.
I paused your video when you mentioned hydrostatic bearings to go learn more about it and then deja vu when I got to the ending of your video to see Cylo's footage that I just watched!
the coolest part of these IMO is how strong the binding is between the carbon lattice and the metal that holds the cutting bit.. Basically the carbon lattice is formed electrochemically and this essentially works as the strongest glue ever
A real pleasure to watch! Thanks a lot for sharing such a great content. Please keep up the good work!
Brother, the fact that you are using a stone tool to make a crazy precise scientific thing is humbling and beautiful.
That spiral chip is so satisfying to watch, and darn is that surface finish good. I'd have thought you would have run into the limits of the machine with a finish somewhere near the first sample you showed, those early samples for a normal mill where already really quite good. So I'm really impressed how much further you could get it with some thoughtful iterations on the techniques - I don't think I'd have even thought to try and push that machine that far (though my experience may be marred by the comparative low quality of my mill). Still with the goal of a mirror in mind I think I'd have have been using the CNC to rough cut the blanks and create a bespoke shaper to do the final finish with...
Super cool video!
It was a good point avoiding the z axis to move. If the servomotors of you machine axis have mecanical brake, maybe there is an Mxx code in the gcode of your machine to lock the axis with the brake. At this level of precision maybe the loop control of the servos might be noticeable.
Absolutely love your video(s)! A lifetime ago, I used to help build and design AFMs, and it's so cool to see how you've used yours."
Simpler solution to your z movements and increase productivity. If you can't add a repeatable clapper like on a shaper, spin the tool 180 at the end of a cut and cut a second mirror on the return pass. More complex, but could potentially go so far as to daisy chain several mirrors radially too so your tool path is effectively a polygon.
Having heard you talk about the temper of the copper stock it occurred to me that it would be easy enough to anneal the copper stock by simply heating it with a torch until it's red hot and letting it cool back to room temperature on it's own. This insures consistently soft material to work with.
This is ASMR fo some of us nerds.
Reminds me of how we did machining in university. But we measured in millimeters. Your measurements blew my mind.
I cannot get over those perfect chips starting at 17:00. Great work!!!
He who lives in harmony with himself lives in harmony with the universe.
From cnc mill to shaper lol.
Did you check out shaper tool design/geometry? There are times where iv seen wayyyy more extreme rake being used for finish cuts on shapers. like edge being 5° off parallel with the direction of motion lol
so maybe going even farther instead of back to 0 is the way. Seems unlikely without changing any other geometry though.