As soon as the shroud came out I decided to master it and it was well worth it. It puts enemies down so quickly and can wipe squads. The bas-p is a really good sniper support.
It wasnt a great from day one tho. While it is a top smg now if you know how to move, you can wipe out a team. Most cant so it wont be a gun used by many. Plus, the low mag size will always hurt it.
@@jeremywhite5311sad isnt it.. we used to have people waiting to get in the squad, or multiple squads.. now im lucky to have one of the boys online with me
I love the lachman shroud but the main issue holding it back (from my top players from my fruends list, one in which was #1 on playstation for 3 months and the other is just so damn good) say that its a burst so if you run with auto t sprint or sprint it will fuck up your sprint to fire time every time you decide to move.
You don't know how your page has helped me, now everything is simpler and faster, it's incredible that since warzone 1, they can't put the data in percentages, now I create my own Meta By the way, the Lachman 762 as a submachine gun beats everyone on the list, with the right accessories you eliminate a lot of recoil, although it is slightly slower.
Great video Tony - I often wonder if the RPMs interaction with the tick rate is why some guns feel better, I can remember back in the BF4 days some really fast fire rate guns would not reg as well on the server be cause of how it interacted with the tick rate. This guy Marble Duck did a whole video on why some RPM guns would always drop bullets. No idea how to test for that. Cheers!
It is a weird thing to think about. Which is why I wanted to test in a real environment if the Lach Sub would kill faster than the BASP, given only 20ms difference on paper... One tick of the server is 50ms. In the tests I got that the Lach won 8/10 times when trying to fire at precisely the same time - but the two it lost I felt like I just literally pressed the fire key earlier on the BAS. So I think, emphasis on think, they have resolved any sort of tickrate/rpm inconsistencies that we used to see in other games, like BF like you mentioned.
Curious to see how minibak rates for others, it's been a hipfire monster for me on Mnk. Mag size and fire rate means you can move like a demon and still spray enemies down from the hip without running out of ammo, I've won more 1v2s with it than any other gun. Data seems to support hipfire minibak is on par with ADS Bas P out to 20M and in practice it will be much better as enemies will have a much harder time tracking you at full move speed Bas P damage feels good in 1v1 but fire rate and hipfire spread makes it very unforgiving against non-ADS targets especially in 1v2s.
I personally love the ISO 9mm, with the sandstorm muzzle that thing shoots straight laserbeams and combined with its mobility I am absolutely loving it over the Lachmann, ISO 45 and BAS-P. I have tried the Shroud with a hipp fire and normal aiming build but on K&M I can't consistantly win close range fights with it.
Quick suggestion, with MetaGen, maybe instead of tuning sliders for levels of importance, use a Spider/Radar chart. That way we can see how Default values are weighted and how increasing one effect will impact the others?
Loved the bas p build just one change though, changed the barrel cause the recoil was alittle to much for me to the 12' bruen sz-36 tuning v:+0.18 h: -0.23
There isn't anyone that does it like you Tony. Love your content and will continue my gold subscription on TGD as a thank you for all you do for the COD community
I've only ever put on the ones I thought were viable (the DMRs) - I just dont think the single fire Lach Shroud is very viable. I can add it sometime soon though
That would be sick to see the #'s. I used to use the shroud exclusively in single fire before it got nerfed, haven't been brave enough to run it in ranked until I see the #'s.@@TrueGameData
Nice video. I've been enjoying the ISO 9mm atm because of the crazy strafe speed. Although I would say ADS strafe speed is a bit of a gimmick because it's never fast enough to break the AA of a decent player, it's still really easy to use with competitive TTK. I know you said metagen was having issues with it but I'd definitely put it at a similar level to the lach/iso 45.
How about shotguns? Lockwood is straight up broken with 0ms ttk and other ones have actually competitive ttks too (I think my guardian, Bryson 800, expedite 12, probably kV as well).
The halo data allegedly showed an accuracy boost of approx 10% for aim assist when compared to a similar skilled/rank player on m/k. Is there an input choice in your calculator? This would absolutely affect the true ttk, and there’s no reason at this point to deny (at least in mw2) that this is a realistic element in determining ttk. They ended up giving m/k aim-assist because of this nonsense.
Always love watching your videos, even tho I will continue to rock a setup of Lockwood and Lachman 762. Give me the best TTK potential or I will retire.
Wait wait, why totaly skip the Vaznev, its ttk is exactly same as Lachman sub, wtf? Plus you didnt mention Hurricane which takes 1 headshot to have 600 ms ttk? How did you miss that out completly?
Subscribed the other day to do the True TTK simulator. I ran 15 targets with my candidates. The issue I had...I hit 60% of my shots with the Kastov 762 the first time and I ran it again and hit 48%. People say firing range has AA, but when I strafe and try to shoot I just miss half my shots. It doesn't stay on target at all like in game.
love and appreciate all your content man. All the time and effort you put into your work is phenomenal. I hope MW3/upcoming Warzone changes brings you back to the game and stream it! Used to watch your streams when you played Warzone 1.
TTK on the Lachmann Shroud is incorrect. The STK should be calculated based on divisibles of 3 since it's a burst weapon. Basically, the TTK should be the same for the STKs 1-3, 4-6, 7-9, and so on. This means if you need 8 shots to knock an enemy, that's equivalent to 3 bursts that's why the TTK which needs 7-9 hits should be identical
WRONG! the true close range meta is Uninstalling the game and playing pve because then you won't lose another fight to a cheater because this game is rife with them.
Talking about stats is one thing but in the field of play the shroud and iso 45 are not worth using. ISO 9mm fries and you just disregard it halfway through the video. I don’t think you even play.
I don't recall him saying it doesn't dry. I do remember Tony saying it is not forgiving if you miss a shot from the body, as extremities do far less DMG - hence the Lachmann sub, shroud and BASP were more consistent in their TTKs.
@@arny_FPS it has a stomach multiplier. So people that can’t hit upper chest/head will have a slower TTK. The faster fire rate makes it more forgiving than the iso 45 and lachman IMO. I’ve been hitting PRs with it. He should have disregarded the shroud because no one good will use it. I was sick of it after getting it gold on shipment.
@@brandona2491 the iso 45 isn’t better than the 9mm IMO. Therefore not worth using. The two guns are very similar but the 9mm has faster fire rate and more forgiving. Side note I never see anyone using the 45 once the 9mm came out. Use whatever you want though.
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Dear TGD: why the single fire damage profile of the Shroud is not represented in the website like other weapons do?
this vid is a big W!
appreciate the tunings 🔥🔥😁😁
Nice video tgd🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
As soon as the shroud came out I decided to master it and it was well worth it. It puts enemies down so quickly and can wipe squads.
The bas-p is a really good sniper support.
None of this matters right now when evil groot is all up in your grill with the lockwood shotgun running rampant 😂
Funny how every try hard nerd runs that exact combo
I've stayed away from vondel for that exact reason😂
For real bro.😂 That lockwood gotta be the worst meta yet.💀 I can't wait to dump MWII/WZ2.0 and play MWIII.
@@starboyjedi13mw3 isn’t going to be much better
@@MumboJumboZXC did you even play the Beta? 🤨
Thanks!
Mx9 has been my favorite from day one. Glad to confirm that it's actually that as good as it feels.
I love it as a ground loot, but mag size is a problem
@@djomla9999 that is definitely true. I usually only play duo's tho, rarely have all the boys in at once anymore lol.
It wasnt a great from day one tho. While it is a top smg now if you know how to move, you can wipe out a team. Most cant so it wont be a gun used by many. Plus, the low mag size will always hurt it.
@@jeremywhite5311sad isnt it.. we used to have people waiting to get in the squad, or multiple squads.. now im lucky to have one of the boys online with me
I love the lachman shroud but the main issue holding it back (from my top players from my fruends list, one in which was #1 on playstation for 3 months and the other is just so damn good) say that its a burst so if you run with auto t sprint or sprint it will fuck up your sprint to fire time every time you decide to move.
Yea 20ms is nothing to worry about for sure. Especially when human reaction, input latency, monitor, tv latency and ping exists.
You don't know how your page has helped me, now everything is simpler and faster, it's incredible that since warzone 1, they can't put the data in percentages, now I create my own Meta
By the way, the Lachman 762 as a submachine gun beats everyone on the list, with the right accessories you eliminate a lot of recoil, although it is slightly slower.
What's the loudout to make it a sub?
The MP5 hipfire build with high velocity rounds is really good.
Great video Tony - I often wonder if the RPMs interaction with the tick rate is why some guns feel better, I can remember back in the BF4 days some really fast fire rate guns would not reg as well on the server be cause of how it interacted with the tick rate. This guy Marble Duck did a whole video on why some RPM guns would always drop bullets. No idea how to test for that. Cheers!
It is a weird thing to think about. Which is why I wanted to test in a real environment if the Lach Sub would kill faster than the BASP, given only 20ms difference on paper... One tick of the server is 50ms. In the tests I got that the Lach won 8/10 times when trying to fire at precisely the same time - but the two it lost I felt like I just literally pressed the fire key earlier on the BAS. So I think, emphasis on think, they have resolved any sort of tickrate/rpm inconsistencies that we used to see in other games, like BF like you mentioned.
@@TrueGameData Cheers, super fun geeking out!
Curious to see how minibak rates for others, it's been a hipfire monster for me on Mnk. Mag size and fire rate means you can move like a demon and still spray enemies down from the hip without running out of ammo, I've won more 1v2s with it than any other gun.
Data seems to support hipfire minibak is on par with ADS Bas P out to 20M and in practice it will be much better as enemies will have a much harder time tracking you at full move speed
Bas P damage feels good in 1v1 but fire rate and hipfire spread makes it very unforgiving against non-ADS targets especially in 1v2s.
I’m not sure metagen factors in attachment compatibility. You can’t have an under barrel with the 4” thunderfire barrel on the bas-p.
I personally love the ISO 9mm, with the sandstorm muzzle that thing shoots straight laserbeams and combined with its mobility I am absolutely loving it over the Lachmann, ISO 45 and BAS-P. I have tried the Shroud with a hipp fire and normal aiming build but on K&M I can't consistantly win close range fights with it.
Great video Tony! However it doesn't look like you're tuning for the laser for the lachmann sub are correct because they don't go that high
Been running the TAQ 56 ever since you introduced the accuracy tool. All these nerfs just indirectly make the TAQ even better
Quick suggestion, with MetaGen, maybe instead of tuning sliders for levels of importance, use a Spider/Radar chart. That way we can see how Default values are weighted and how increasing one effect will impact the others?
Loved the bas p build just one change though, changed the barrel cause the recoil was alittle to much for me to the 12' bruen sz-36 tuning v:+0.18 h: -0.23
For the lachman sub vlk laser the number you put for vertical is impossible
Sounds like a skill issue
Would love to see the lachmann 762 smg build in the mix
Lachman shroud is best for a hipfire build after trying it. For an ads build i would highly recommended an optic
Any recommendations on attachments to replace the recoil control ones? I play max sensitivity on console so it’s pretty easy to control
You talked me into using the bas p
so much info i did not understand which is the number 1 weapon :D
There isn't anyone that does it like you Tony. Love your content and will continue my gold subscription on TGD as a thank you for all you do for the COD community
What about the ftac siege? Ik it’s ttk is definitely worse, but I’m curious how much worse, because I think it’s water ability makes up for it.
Is the vaznev still usable?
Dear TGD: why the single fire damage profile of the Shroud is not represented in the website like other weapons are?
I've only ever put on the ones I thought were viable (the DMRs) - I just dont think the single fire Lach Shroud is very viable. I can add it sometime soon though
That would be sick to see the #'s. I used to use the shroud exclusively in single fire before it got nerfed, haven't been brave enough to run it in ranked until I see the #'s.@@TrueGameData
the bas p feels really good to me. Good ttk and you can run and gun and drop shot with it pretty well. I use that over the iso 9 just in my opinion
Nice video. I've been enjoying the ISO 9mm atm because of the crazy strafe speed. Although I would say ADS strafe speed is a bit of a gimmick because it's never fast enough to break the AA of a decent player, it's still really easy to use with competitive TTK. I know you said metagen was having issues with it but I'd definitely put it at a similar level to the lach/iso 45.
Yea it does have a good strafe it and mp5 is my favorite atm I think it just burns threw the ammo quick but the movement is worth it
Is there a way we can use this chart ourselves?
So we can put our maybe 3 guns with there lodouts so we can see what the ttk is
what ttk on lanchman shourd single mod?
Appreciate the work you put in Tony! As I said before, I hope the next WZ update will also bring more people (back) to you.
Hey man, good to see you 😀
You should do a graphic setting video
I've been running the shroud with (no stock, 40rd, quick fire, anti flinch grip, red dot) since it released. super easy to control and fast af
Thanks Tony.
I needed a build for my new Haunting Event Bas-P
Many thanks!!!!
Tony helping us see the light! The way you make this data informative and useful to our loadouts is always amazing. Thanks Tony!
How about shotguns? Lockwood is straight up broken with 0ms ttk and other ones have actually competitive ttks too (I think my guardian, Bryson 800, expedite 12, probably kV as well).
Lockwood with dragons breath in the corner: “pathetic”
Did they take the game code out that manipulates you're gunfights yet.
Great insight into the actual data, thanks Tony!
Thanks for the new vids, TGD!! Looking forward to the new MW3 TGD in the future!
I know I have said this before, but damn Tony, great work!
Always been the best for info on guns 🍻🇮🇪
Still absolutely gunning people with the sub compared to the others. I feel familiarity is also a very important factor.
How bad did this recent nerf hurt the Shroud? I really need to know because I love this gun and recently got my PR with it.
Bro just wanted to say this was such an awesome video and thank you for all the work you put into it.
You’re killing it Tony
Great video, as always, Tony. If I'm good with the Bas P iron sights, what attachment would you recommend to use instead? Thanks!
Bipod
A gem of a meta breakdown. Thanks bro
Your mx9 setup in metagen only had 4 attachments
yep, it couldn't find a 5th that was worth using. I use an optic anyway, so it works out
I'm using the Diamon 9 focused in movement and it is beating the smgs.
Great video as always. Do you plan on implementing Shotguns into metagen at some point before MW3 WZ integration drops?
Unlikely... not many people will promote a shotgun for obvious reasons
THANK YOU TONY for your dedicated work!
Thanks for the data, bro ❤
What would be best smg to run in ranked?
BAS-P in my opinion is the king right now
The halo data allegedly showed an accuracy boost of approx 10% for aim assist when compared to a similar skilled/rank player on m/k. Is there an input choice in your calculator? This would absolutely affect the true ttk, and there’s no reason at this point to deny (at least in mw2) that this is a realistic element in determining ttk. They ended up giving m/k aim-assist because of this nonsense.
Subbed and liked he VIDEO .. thanks for your work
Would you consider the Lachmann 762 full auto meta for close range?
Appreciate the time & effort you put into the work so we have True Game Data- Meta classes👌🤙
Amazingly in depth vid great job
Where is the Fennec ?
Super helpful video again Tony love it 👌
Algorithm boost + Do you plan to cover cs2 in any manner?
Keep growing Tony !
Best of luck.
Hollow point is definitely the best ammo type but I dont use one on any of my smgs I don't think they are very valuable
Bas p as been exceptional as sniper support
Thanks Tony
Always love watching your videos, even tho I will continue to rock a setup of Lockwood and Lachman 762. Give me the best TTK potential or I will retire.
Wait wait, why totaly skip the Vaznev, its ttk is exactly same as Lachman sub, wtf? Plus you didnt mention Hurricane which takes 1 headshot to have 600 ms ttk? How did you miss that out completly?
Subscribed the other day to do the True TTK simulator. I ran 15 targets with my candidates. The issue I had...I hit 60% of my shots with the Kastov 762 the first time and I ran it again and hit 48%. People say firing range has AA, but when I strafe and try to shoot I just miss half my shots. It doesn't stay on target at all like in game.
Are you able to share account? Im able to pay for par of the sub.
Thx for your Work!
love and appreciate all your content man. All the time and effort you put into your work is phenomenal. I hope MW3/upcoming Warzone changes brings you back to the game and stream it! Used to watch your streams when you played Warzone 1.
Bro thanks for the video
Thanks as always Big Tony!
Great video mate.
Love this
TTK on the Lachmann Shroud is incorrect. The STK should be calculated based on divisibles of 3 since it's a burst weapon. Basically, the TTK should be the same for the STKs 1-3, 4-6, 7-9, and so on. This means if you need 8 shots to knock an enemy, that's equivalent to 3 bursts that's why the TTK which needs 7-9 hits should be identical
No, because there is time between the first bullet in the burst and the last. They do not all hit at the same time.
You mean the 10ms burst delay?
I'll be waiting about a month before I decide to get MW3. Still choked about my skins not transferring over. Such bs.
Again supporting
amazing content
Appreciate it as always
Legend
hell yea
Just use the Lockwood, nothing else
Clown 🤡
Low skill weapon and it ain't fun to use, so no.
It's fine for solos.. You're a mad man to run it in quads.
I’m going to keep it a buck fiddy, Activision, Raven, Sledgehammer or Inifinity Ward and company need to hire you…
You da man Tony
BAS-P bois for lyf
We'll see a resurgence in players as long as they don't let the game feel like dogshit. Get rid of that delay from slide to sprint.
Tony tony tone
Algorithm!
Thank you daddy
WRONG! the true close range meta is Uninstalling the game and playing pve because then you won't lose another fight to a cheater because this game is rife with them.
Who's still here... Mw2>Mw3.... Shroud and iso 45 tied allll dayyy.. 3rd place lachman sub lol
need long range more than anything lol
For the algorithm
Great video and great comments so far. I can't like the vid right now because it's on 666 likes and I don't want to be the one who breaks it
All this is wrong the veznek 9k is top close range meta
I think you may be a genius
Upvote for human brain
Algorithm
Talking about stats is one thing but in the field of play the shroud and iso 45 are not worth using. ISO 9mm fries and you just disregard it halfway through the video. I don’t think you even play.
I don't recall him saying it doesn't dry. I do remember Tony saying it is not forgiving if you miss a shot from the body, as extremities do far less DMG - hence the Lachmann sub, shroud and BASP were more consistent in their TTKs.
@@arny_FPS it has a stomach multiplier. So people that can’t hit upper chest/head will have a slower TTK. The faster fire rate makes it more forgiving than the iso 45 and lachman IMO. I’ve been hitting PRs with it. He should have disregarded the shroud because no one good will use it. I was sick of it after getting it gold on shipment.
Lol what…iso 45 shreds
@@brandona2491 the iso 45 isn’t better than the 9mm IMO. Therefore not worth using. The two guns are very similar but the 9mm has faster fire rate and more forgiving. Side note I never see anyone using the 45 once the 9mm came out. Use whatever you want though.
@@pjw4125 outside of 10m the 45 is out classing it. The BASP is arguably the best SMG right now