Hi Andrew, great video. I hate to be "that guy" but you mentioned that Joni is one of your favorite American singer/songwriters. While Joni does hold a double citizenship, she is a proud Canadian, born and raised. It is a part of her make-up. I saw a ballet she scored for the Royal Canadian Ballet a few years ago. She is a national treasure. Just wanted to add. Thanks.
Perhaps he meant "American" as in from the Americas, more specifically from North America, of which Canada is a part. Maybe Andy will comment on this and then we'll know 😉.
@@albertoramirez6388 The United States of Mexico is also American. We US citizens like to appropriate everything, including possession of the Americas. Regardless, Canada is indeed uniquely American. LOL
@@rk41gator Agreed. It's sad that so many people don't know America refers to all of North and South America. We in the USA tend to think the term refers only to our country...
Kate Bush is a modern real witch, I wonder how few know her today. She is a prog writer and has played a big role for me, helped me explore how sensible and with high power even men can dive into rhythm and songs. I learned to feel and express my feelings in free dancing with her songs, thou I was a pro in standard and latino dance then, she made me improvise free on stage. Her concept albums hooked me to learn more about her, found there are more layers in her worldimage and in her various expressions, an outstanding serious artist in times where commercial success, pretending and bling bling rule most.
Laura Nyro has in my opinion at least 2 albums that are on par with the best works of Kate Bush or Joni Mitchell : Eli & the 13th Confession and Beads of sweat. Then a couple of others are also well worth checking : New York Tendaberry and Smile. Time and Love, essential masters is up there with any Bush or Mitchell or anyone else's best of.
Joni for me, every day of the week - I discovered her music at university - predominantly the ‘jazz fusion period’ with Jaco, Pat Metheny, Herbie Hancock and so on - and the albums, especially Hejira, Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Mingus and Shadows And Light are simply sublime. But, BUT, Kate Bush’s work is always arresting, fiercely creative and latterly, always produced on her own terms. I’d also argue that Kate Bush became a direct influence on Joni Mitchell, during her ‘Fairlight era’ - Dog Eat Dog could almost be a mid 80s Kate Bush album. Either way, they’re both quite astonishing musicians and writers, and I love them both.
Buying the CD of Mingus is what made me go back to vinyl. At least the early CD releases were so flat, and I wonder if that has something to do with how this one gets overlooked. My absolute favorite.
I remember living in London for a few months in the late 70ies, and buying both Joni Mitchell’s Mingus Album and Kate Bush Lionheart at that time. Fell in love with Kate Bush while at the same time I felt Joni (Who I adored at the time and had collected all her Albums) went somewhere where I started to lose the connection. I stopped buying her Albums after ‘Shadows and Light’, and to this day have not made peace with her later Albums. Mingus to me is the last of the good ones, already foreshadowing her turn. Similar to Genesis with The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway’ by Genesis and Yes ‘Tales of Topographic Oceans’, still quite great but over their zenith, and a sign of future detoriation. Kate Bush on the other hand builded up her greatness from album to album.
This is an unambiguously "progressive rock" vs "jazz fusion" matchup. Kate Bush: totally in the tradition of Genesis, Pink Floyd, Alan Parsons, etc., with members of those bands in her circle: strictly European-based tonality, nary a blues lick to be found on any Bush LP; dripping English Aesthetic from every pore; immensely creative "soundscapes" that stretch the traditional musical forms. Joni Mitchell: totally in the American jazz & folk traditions, Weather Report, Mingus, Miles, with members of those bands in her circle: traditional song forms with unexpected harmonizations that can form the basis for extended improvisations; more interested in conveying a introspective soulful ernestness than provocative expansiveness. Just sayin ... Everybody loves to talk about "Blue," and rightfully so, but "The Dreaming" is one of the most spellbinding collections of popular music ever recorded. This video would be an excellent opportunity to hold forth a bit about Stuart Elliot.
Andy, I love the concept of using the Superiometer for the very reason you provided at the end of this discussion. So true that all I was interested in was to breath in your extensive knowledge and be entertained by your thoughtful, interesting persoanality. I’ll keep tuning in regardless of the continued use of the fun ride with the Superiometer.
Thank you Andy! I have downloaded this post for those times when I want to laugh out loud. You continue to be the gift that keeps on giving Naturally I assume that this was clickbait which I hope realised its aim. However the scale of your ambition, to discuss Joni Mitchell in a mere 30 minutes leaves me gasping in amazement.I fear that mischief is afoot.
Both are amazing, highly individual artists who changed and evolved so much over their career. But... how can one can even try to meaningfully compare these two artists.... Apples and Oranges.
Andy If you ask me who do I prefer, Kate Bush or Joni Mitchell, I think that I would avoid a tricky situation and say, Blossom Dearie. This would avoid confrontation and show my love for a true angel. Keep up the good work
Though it’s quite true that I am glad to know what you think, the much much greater cause for my watching the video was the expectation that its details would highten my appreciation through a planned re-visit of the subject works; in addition to everything else I really admire about your videos, that is the area most precious to me (although the great humor ranks highly, too)
The use of the Superior-O-Meter is entertaining and should not be retired for the time being. This was pure fun pitting the Brit artist with the ‘American.’ Great video!
For me personally Bush is more an artist I respect while Mitchell is someone I fully connect with. I can easily imagine it is the reverse for many other viewers. For me Mitchell’s oeuvre is one of the very finest and authentic in rock history.✌️
Boomers or Gen-Xers eh? Well, some of us boomers can appreciate Kate Bush and some Gen-Xers can appreciate Joni Mitchell doncha think? Love them both why not! Great video as always Andy
Andy: Did you fall down (on your head)? Are you feeling ok? : - ) I have not doubted the superiority of the superi-ometer until now. Comparing contemporaries makes sense. This comparison.... Check out "Hissing of Summer Lawns" (1975). Kate Bush was 17? Listen to the "Jungle Line": Peter Gabriel does not get there until the 80s! Joni knocked down a kabillion doors and windows that Kate Bush and every artist after Joni walked through! A VERY short list of Joni Fans and folks she Influenced: Jimi Hendrix (would bring a tape machine to clubs to record her live performances in NY for his own purposes), Peter Green, Robert Fripp (early KC played "Michael from Mountains"!!!!), Led Zeppelin (“That’s the music that I play at home all the time - Joni Mitchell,” Jimmy Page 1975 Rolling Stone), Zappa's Hot Rats musicians - John Guerin and Max Bennet, Sandy Denny, Richard Thompson, and the entire Fairport gang/extended family, Peter Gabriel (“Joni, I think, I’ve been in love with not just because of the writing, but also [because] she was an experimenter. She was pushing the musical boundaries both in the way she wrote harmonies and then exploring arrangements. Great artist.”), Prince, Suzanne Vega, Chrissie Hynde, Alanis Morrissete, Herbie Hancock (devoted an entire album to Joni's music!!!), Jaco (your comments are spot on), Chaka Khan, John Wetton (KC, UK, Asia: "When I listened to Joni Mitchell, I realized lyrics could be about personal subjects rather than pointing a finger.... Then, when I heard Joni Mitchell, a big light went on. I realized if I’m going to write about pain, then I should write about my own pain."), Bjork ("...I was obsessed with Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and Hejira as a teenager... She almost made her own type of music style with those, it's more a woman's world."), Robben Ford, Donna Summer, Tom Scott, Jackson Browne, Taylor Swift, Lorde, Frank Ocean, Annie Lennox ("She was writing these extraordinary songs with this extraordinary sort of commentary, poetic, special way, and this voice and this incredible playing. As soon as you heard the first chord and her voice … I thought 'I want to do that.'") Charles MINGUS (who chose Joni as a collaborator on his last compositions).
I love them both but Joni's Hissing of the Summer Lawns, Court n Spark and Heija are desert Island disks for me. I also love the Shadows and Light album and the fact that she managed to transfer her music onto the stage with such a great band. I was dissapointed when trying to find live Kate Bush footage to find out that she only did one tour. The footage of that tour, shows her being carried around by male dancers (pre-madona era) and there is one point where it is revield there is some lip- syncing going on. Either that, or the editing makes it look like that. Also, the band were relegated to a puppet master type senario with no lighting. I'm just not into those kind of shows personally.
One big factor is ten year difference in technology. But owning only 5 albums of Joni is not satisfactory. my gawd, her first 5 were brilliant and they were before her jazzy era. you must correct that, make amends or go to confession or sumtin.🎉
A much more relevant comparison would be Joni Mitchell v Laura Nyro. Both Mitchell and Bush were hugely influenced by Nyro. Joni happily acknowledges this (calling Nyro "the only artist I'm happy to be compared to") but for sime reason Kate Bush has never, afaik, given Nyro any credit. Sorry, but Kate Bush is little more than a poor man's version of Nyro. Her early records in particular owe a *huge* debt to Laura's New York Tendaberry album (listen in particular to Captain For Dark Mornings, Gibsom Street, and the title track from that album) and Christmas And The Beads of Sweat (most of side 2, especially Map To The Treasure). Her vocal phrasing, for example, is often virtually identical! Those albums were released in 1969 and 1970 respectively. And by the way, before anybody starts, Nyro is not "obscure" or unknown. Her music, mainly her songwriting, made her a double millionaire by the time she was 19, in one week in November 1969 she had 3 songs she'd written in the Billboard Chart Top 10 (a songwriting feat only ever bettered by Lennon and McCartney, I believe), David Geffen launched his entite career as her manager, and, whatever you think of it, she's in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame (since 2012) and the songwriters Hall of Fame.
Exactly. Laura Nyro was the real deal and I still listen to those records I first heard in the late 60’s, early 70’s. Still fresh sounding and totally engaging. Never saw her live unfortunately. Among a handful of artists I missed but wish I’d seen perform. Monk another.
The question is like comparing a sunset to twilight time, each with their own magnificence, unique splendor, while not always what magnifies/reflects your mood.
To whom, etc. If you’re a Bush fan, check out Esperanza Spalding if you haven’t done so yet. Same deal. Gorgeous soprano, killer videos, and wildly imaginative songwriting. I don’t know if any critics have called her the jazz world’s answer to Bush, but it’s time someone did. I suspect both would be flattered.
I love both and find it hard to compare them objectively, they both have such depths of talent that its a wonder the Superiorometer didn't spontaneously self combust - or maybe it did/should ;) In the end I go with Joni though because she released more albums and had a longer active career.
I say, keep the Superi-O-Meter! Another great video Andy. As a great Joni admirer, and an admirer of Kate, but more Joni-I love all the parameters (including popularity). The machine is good, even if it’s your machine!!!
No knock on Kate, I think she’s great, but Joni for me has lived much longer in my head and heart. I think the Superiometer is great, you should do more.
They are both important artists. Innovative, super talented, and succefull. However, Joni towers above most. Not only did she open the door and inspire many female artists like Bush but she was a great risk taker, essentially turning her back on success to explore different more jazzier music forms.
Kate Bush denied she was influenced by Joni Mitchell despite the fact she felt a lot of respect for her. She confessed she avoided listening to Joni's work precisely because she didn't want to be influenced by her or any other female artist (except Billie Holiday). I've been a big KB admirer right from the start and I could never hear any connection between both except the fact they were great female singer-songwriters. Even the way they sing and their voices come from very different techniques. On the other hand, Tori Amos, very often compared to Kate Bush, especially in her early albums, always claimed Joni Mitchell's influence on her work.
Wuthering Heights was the first ever self-penned UK number 1 for a solo female artist... and she was 18. When you think about it that is amazing. The impact of that in the British music scene is on a par with The Beatles and The Sex Pistols.
Laura Nyro smashed the door open for female singer songwriters and by her second album in 1968 aged 20 she had gained total artistic control via Columbia boss Clive Davis. Nyro is the only influence Joni Mitchell ever stated. Wuthering Heights is influenced by Nyro's Captain for Dark Mornings (1969). Amos and Steely Dan were influenced by Nyro as well as scores of others. Nyro "probably influenced more successful songwriters than anyone " Elton John, 2007.
Thanks Andy I’m pretty new here and love your channel. Being just 24 hours new to your channel and I’ve listened to two of your comparisons. This one of course and Zappa/Mothers vs. McLaughlin/Mahavishnu. I was very surprised at the end because as I was thinking I’m really interested in Andy’s opinion here you went and said the same thing. First and foremost, I’m from America. Halfway into decade number 6 so my musical hero’s are mostly musicians/bands from the 60s and 70s, with some 80s thrown in the mix. I’ve lived over 25 years on the east coast and over 30 on the west coast. And luckily enough as a young lad, grew up in Hawaii. I first heard the Beatles there. And it was ‘Meet the Beatles,’ no mistake about that. In first grade I wasn’t figuring out lyrics, and Paul wasn’t dead yet. And by god he’s still alive and Rolling Stone probably thinks he’s a top ten all time bassist. The reason I mention this stuff is I couldn’t help but feel deep down that in both comparison videos, you were batting for the home team! No knock on that either. I’ll admit I don’t know McLaughlins guitar work that well, but I did own Birds of Fire and listened to other Mahavishnu albums at friends houses in college etc. But for me, Frank blew him out of the water, as did Jimmy Page, Jerry Garcia, Jeff Beck, Jimi Hendrix. All those ‘J’ guys. I respect John McL but he seems like he plays lightning fast just for the sake of that he can. Frank had more tone and it never felt forced when he’d speed it up. But it’s all good. They’re both amazing on their axes .. I do miss Frank after unbelievably 30 years gone. And here in the states we could sure use a lot of him letting the Republican Party ……will leave it at that. Joni and Kate…Come on, Kate is wonderful, and I’ve listened to her from the get go, love her so much. But……Joni has the experience. She wrote the song Woodstock and those goofballs CSN made it a hit. Court and Spark, Blue, Hissing of summer lawns. And have you ever seen her paintings? Good lord I know it’s not music but being one myself the two medium’s are very related. Let’s face it they both are very talented. Very… Maybe it’s because I’m from the other side of the pond I have a bias? I just felt that with your two vids I’ve seen so far. I do find it interesting, but growing up I was much more into Brit bands and solo musicians than in the states. As I’ve grown older than dirt and opened up to other artists styles and so on I still feel that things haven’t changed all that much. But only Joni Mitchell could write a lyric like ‘I’m a pretty good cook, I’m sitting on my groceries, come up to my kitchen and I’ll show you my best recipe! ‘ Ouch. Gotta love her. Anyway, I’ve joined your channel, I have all the time in the world til they whoever they are take me away. And I’m wordy. So thank you for all you do, it’s engaging. Hopefully you read your comments.. even the full of hot air ones like yours truly. But yes, I digress, you homered it on those two. And ya know what? That’s great. I would have done the same. 👍🏻🎸
Kate and Joni are exceptional poets, they sit among the greatest male/female songwriters. I met Kate once and she was very sweet and kind, so down to earth, not at all glitzy.
Joni Mitchell's music has meant far more to me over the years than the music of Kate Bush, but the fact that arguably reasonable people seem to disagree about which one is greater suggests that there may be something I have missed. I eagerly await the Superiometer's verdict. Maybe I'll even listen to some Kate Bush songs, too. Anybody have any recommendations?
@@sethleon2158 While I agree this is true, it's a far too aggressively experimental album to recommend to a Joni Mitchell fan. While Joni has certainly been experimental, for this album, Kate just went mental.
Like you, Andy, my favourite English and Canadian female singer songwriters. Only half way through but perhaps the most difficult decision you will ever make. 😂👍
16:34 an artist that sounds a LOT like Joni ‘s singing and song writing is virtuoso bass player and singer Esperanza Spalding ... that wordiness....she frequently cites her as an influence. She also has an AWESOME prog rock album D+ Evolution
Joni effortlessly wins for me on musicianship, lyrics, artistry, sensitivity. She's on a different level entirely and has the superior discography. In my opinion, that is.
I'm a little late posting, so I'll keep it short. I'm only moderately familiar with each ladies music. However, I'd like to give my experience with each. When I listen to Kate I don't enjoy it as much as I think I should. When I listen to Joni I like it more that I thought I would. But that's just me. Thanks again for what you're doing.
That’s my experience too. For me it has to do with delivery. Kate, to me, seems rigid and harsh which is off-putting. Joni feels more approachable in tone and fits my ear. Yet both are stellar and are a standoff on the parameters Andy used.
I almost didn't want to watch this, as I love both artists. And it's like comparing say football to rugby. But I'm glad I did. Great video. P.S. it's Joni for me, probably because I'm more into folk than prog.
I had foreseen a tie, well done! However, I stand with Kate. I feel Joni as being ultra feminine, possibly too much time spent in the self. Recently, I found a copy of 'Court and Spark' meant to give it another try. I could appreciate it, but meh. My go to Joni album is 'Don Juan's Reckless Daughter'. I relate to the sprawl of it. Kate transcends. Her songs, somewhat molecular, are invasive beyond mere humanity. She delves. I do not believe there is a more complete, female artist of her caliber. As you say, Andy, my favorite Kate album is always in flux, as well. There have been so many gems for every mood along the way. I also have her full catalogue. Thanks for this!
Gonna be "that guy" that stands up for King and Country and points out Joni's Canadian first and foremost, eh?! We gotta take 'em where we can get 'em. :)
You reference Joni's "shrill" voice. She literally loses that wailing, high-pitched shrillness *entirely* after Blue. Which was what...her fourth studio album, just 3 or 4 years into her career! Hmmm, I don't find it hard to believe that you only own 5 of her albums.
Not even close... Joni all the way... I like Kate... she made 3 or 4 albums I like a lot... but with Joni I feel it is far richer... From 1974-79 it's about as good as music ever got in any genre. A bit like Stevie Wonder's run of LPs.
The problem with Kate is that she has not been very prolific and I lost interest in her after the album the Red Shoes. She was replaced in my world by Tori Amos. Tori sounded a lot like Kate on her first albums, so that’s why I got interested in her initially. I have never listened to Joni, so I don’t have an opinion on this matter. But Kate was a godess in my universe in the eighties.
There is absolutely no comparison between the two, first there is no Best, however Joni is a Goddess of here own style song writing aside she invented a whole guitar/ music style. I would have shifted to comparing Joni to Dylan.
Pay no attention to the Superiometer behind the curtain...good one, Captain Andy; I was thinking that the natural analog is comparing the sunset to the sunrise - or the Northern & Southern hemispheres - both are equally peerless, mysterious, timeless, etc. Perhaps a boxing match would settle the tie...
my superiometer just compared a flower to the sky...and the sky came out tops by a mile. a minor software update on andy`s superiometer might work wonders, who knows?
Need a penalty shootout to decide and call me a shallow, sexist pig, but Kate wins it on her beauty and sex appeal. I mean, just look at that face in the picture for this video. ❤️❤️❤️
Despite my openly admitted bias toward Kate, this seemed fair. Joni’s catalogue isn’t that familiar to me but I’ve heard a reasonable amount and remember seeing the gig the BBC put out in 79/80 with Jaco on bass. Her objective importance is indisputable. The only thing I’d say about the virtuoso instrumentalist points going to Joni is that despite it seeming hard to push back with guys like Jaco and the like in her band… equally I can’t imagine even Jaco playing any more beautifully than John Giblin on tracks like ‘Babooshka’ or ‘Breathing’. Which brings into question how you measure virtuosity. I take it as usually being the ability to improvise and solo at a heightened level,(perhaps more the jazz interpretation), or to be able to play extremely difficult pre-composed pieces,( perhaps more the Classical interpretation). However, since there is still a subjective component in assessing these categories, I always think it leaves the assessment of the quality of one’s contribution to a composition or to ensemble playing as being equally as valid. Perhaps it could be categorised as being even more subjective than the more conventionally interpreted notion of musical virtuosity, but ultimately it’s the one that feels more true to oneself regardless of the overall consensus. It’s why I always feel that I should confirm that the fusion players are objectively better musicians than musicians associated with other modern music forms,( Prog being probably its closest competitor, if we view things in such a manner), but the musicianship of players operating in other fields can sound to me, and be experienced by me, as better musicianship than much of the work of Jazz/Fusion players.
I sort of knew from the first Superiometer video I watched (Kraftwerk vs Pink Floyd) that the whole thing was a fantasy, however, saying that, what you have is a very objective way at looking at music and artists, and your concluding comments are very important. For me, it will be Joni, I own three Joni albums, no Kate, too much 80"s going on in Kate's albums for my tastes, however, I fully get that she is a very intelligent woman and her approach to music was intelligent. Who gives a shit whether I like her or not, that is totally irrelevant, the genius of the woman is indisputable.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer 😅😅 an invention, an illusion you err playing to distract us. As soon as you said "I'll turn it on" and it sounded like you were shovelling coal into the furnace of the Flying Scotsman I thought " that's a joke". However, as I say , it's an interesting way of stepping outside of yourself to critique music, and as you say, may even get you to change your mind 👍
Putting nationalities to one side I prefer Kate to Joni, but have to say that if you remove your totally subjective tenth parameter (who do you like more) the win would go to Joni 5-4.
I never connected with Kate Bush, mainly because her enunciation means I' ve never known what she's on about. Joni Mitchell has been a constant companion from Blue onwards and as a Jazz musician, entranced by both her lyrics and her guitar tunings, for me she's rarely had a dud for the rest of her career. As yet , I find Kate Bush impenetrable. That may change.
it is absurd to even ask the question. joni is unquestionably one of the greatest songwriters of our time, period. kate is good but hardly top tier or world class
The Joni DVD is 'Refuge on the Road', which contains 'Wild Things Run Free'. As great as that band was, Joni said that she and bassist huband Larry Klein would need to sit the lads down after every couple gigs and remind them that they weren't playing in Led Zeppelin. Some of Joni's long-time fans surely got a shock with that lineup really ripping it up. But damn, Vinnie's drumming is ferociously fine. As for Kate or Joni - I love the music of both, though not everything by either. Kate was definitely the more untethered and innovative as well as the more creatively inspired. No slight to Joni but she was either sustaining or combining existing traditions, i.e., folk and jazz. A Kate performance was exactly that - an engaging Performance. Joni was more solitary in every sense. It is interesting that both singers had such high-pitched and often off-putting voices earlier in their career yet later those voices lowered and their tone darkened. I love Kate's on 'The Sensual World', Joni's on 'Havana'. This was a fun video. And yes, thank goodness the score was a tie.
Hi Andrew, great video. I hate to be "that guy" but you mentioned that Joni is one of your favorite American singer/songwriters. While Joni does hold a double citizenship, she is a proud Canadian, born and raised. It is a part of her make-up. I saw a ballet she scored for the Royal Canadian Ballet a few years ago. She is a national treasure. Just wanted to add. Thanks.
Hum, Europeans have trouble distinguishing Turtle Islanders. The reverse is also true.
I’m waiting for the Frank Zappa vs Miles Davis matchup!
Perhaps he meant "American" as in from the Americas, more specifically from North America, of which Canada is a part. Maybe Andy will comment on this and then we'll know 😉.
@@albertoramirez6388 The United States of Mexico is also American. We US citizens like to appropriate everything, including possession of the Americas. Regardless, Canada is indeed uniquely American. LOL
@@rk41gator Agreed. It's sad that so many people don't know America refers to all of North and South America. We in the USA tend to think the term refers only to our country...
Exactly! Among Canadian-born female songwriters, Joni is rivaled only by Buffy Saint-Marie...ooops!
Kate Bush is a modern real witch, I wonder how few know her today. She is a prog writer and has played a big role for me, helped me explore how sensible and with high power even men can dive into rhythm and songs. I learned to feel and express my feelings in free dancing with her songs, thou I was a pro in standard and latino dance then, she made me improvise free on stage.
Her concept albums hooked me to learn more about her, found there are more layers in her worldimage and in her various expressions, an outstanding serious artist in times where commercial success, pretending and bling bling rule most.
Thank you for taking on this unenviable task and not deminishing either of these greats. And doing it with passion and humour.
Dead heat for me. Joni for composition, Kate for creativity.
Laura Nyro has in my opinion at least 2 albums that are on par with the best works of Kate Bush or Joni Mitchell : Eli & the 13th Confession and Beads of sweat. Then a couple of others are also well worth checking : New York Tendaberry and Smile.
Time and Love, essential masters is up there with any Bush or Mitchell or anyone else's best of.
New York Tendaberry goes hard
Joni for me, every day of the week - I discovered her music at university - predominantly the ‘jazz fusion period’ with Jaco, Pat Metheny, Herbie Hancock and so on - and the albums, especially Hejira, Hissing Of Summer Lawns, Mingus and Shadows And Light are simply sublime. But, BUT, Kate Bush’s work is always arresting, fiercely creative and latterly, always produced on her own terms. I’d also argue that Kate Bush became a direct influence on Joni Mitchell, during her ‘Fairlight era’ - Dog Eat Dog could almost be a mid 80s Kate Bush album. Either way, they’re both quite astonishing musicians and writers, and I love them both.
Joni Mitchell is a poet...100%...I love Kate Bush...The Red Shoes is a masterpiece that is only now being appreciated
The Mingus album is absurdly good, and underrated
Jaco’s bass playing is outstanding on this one!
agreed
Buying the CD of Mingus is what made me go back to vinyl. At least the early CD releases were so flat, and I wonder if that has something to do with how this one gets overlooked. My absolute favorite.
I remember living in London for a few months in the late 70ies, and buying both Joni Mitchell’s Mingus Album and Kate Bush Lionheart at that time. Fell in love with Kate Bush while at the same time I felt Joni (Who I adored at the time and had collected all her Albums) went somewhere where I started to lose the connection. I stopped buying her Albums after ‘Shadows and Light’, and to this day have not made peace with her later Albums. Mingus to me is the last of the good ones, already foreshadowing her turn. Similar to Genesis with The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway’ by Genesis and Yes ‘Tales of Topographic Oceans’, still quite great but over their zenith, and a sign of future detoriation. Kate Bush on the other hand builded up her greatness from album to album.
This is an unambiguously "progressive rock" vs "jazz fusion" matchup. Kate Bush: totally in the tradition of Genesis, Pink Floyd, Alan Parsons, etc., with members of those bands in her circle: strictly European-based tonality, nary a blues lick to be found on any Bush LP; dripping English Aesthetic from every pore; immensely creative "soundscapes" that stretch the traditional musical forms. Joni Mitchell: totally in the American jazz & folk traditions, Weather Report, Mingus, Miles, with members of those bands in her circle: traditional song forms with unexpected harmonizations that can form the basis for extended improvisations; more interested in conveying a introspective soulful ernestness than provocative expansiveness. Just sayin ... Everybody loves to talk about "Blue," and rightfully so, but "The Dreaming" is one of the most spellbinding collections of popular music ever recorded. This video would be an excellent opportunity to hold forth a bit about Stuart Elliot.
I usually talk about Hejira though
Andy, I love the concept of using the Superiometer for the very reason you provided at the end of this discussion. So true that all I was interested in was to breath in your extensive knowledge and be entertained by your thoughtful, interesting persoanality. I’ll keep tuning in regardless of the continued use of the fun ride with the Superiometer.
Thank you Andy! I have downloaded this post for those times when I want to laugh out loud. You continue to be the gift that keeps on giving Naturally I assume that this was clickbait which I hope realised its aim. However the scale of your ambition, to discuss Joni Mitchell in a mere 30 minutes leaves me gasping in amazement.I fear that mischief is afoot.
Both are amazing, highly individual artists who changed and evolved so much over their career. But... how can one can even try to meaningfully compare these two artists.... Apples and Oranges.
Watch the video and you'll see how one man does it.
What a brave man you are to compare these two icons… hhaaaa
Love you Andy. You’re the best 😎👍
🤓
Andy
If you ask me who do I prefer, Kate Bush or Joni Mitchell, I think that I would avoid a tricky situation and say, Blossom Dearie.
This would avoid confrontation and show my love for a true angel.
Keep up the good work
I enjoy these Superiometer episodes . Great fun and a great vehicle for discussion. Keep it up.
Glad you like them!
Though it’s quite true that I am glad to know what you think, the much much greater cause for my watching the video was the expectation that its details would highten my appreciation through a planned re-visit of the subject works; in addition to everything else I really admire about your videos, that is the area most precious to me (although the great humor ranks highly, too)
The use of the Superior-O-Meter is entertaining and should not be retired for the time being. This was pure fun pitting the Brit artist with the ‘American.’ Great video!
Just - why? Music is not a competition. These are two amazing artists - is it not possible to just admire their work?
It's a ridiculous question...
didnt watch the video then....
Not true. I still don't understand why you would wish to frame the chat like that.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer And also, when you compare two things the word you need is GREATER, not GREATEST!
Love both.Was a bit baffled how Kate was so unknown in The States before Stranger Things.
This is a tough one. I listened endlessly to both in the past. But in the last 10 years, I tend to visit Joni's albums more often.
That said: Dylan wrote some brilliant and original melodies....
Two giants ...but the "dreaming" by Kate will forever remain a total ovni ,there's is ...maybe...a scary level of genius behind that my friends...
For me personally Bush is more an artist I respect while Mitchell is someone I fully connect with.
I can easily imagine it is the reverse for many other viewers.
For me Mitchell’s oeuvre is one of the very finest and authentic in rock history.✌️
Boomers or Gen-Xers eh? Well, some of us boomers can appreciate Kate Bush and some Gen-Xers can appreciate Joni Mitchell doncha think? Love them both why not! Great video as always Andy
With great trepidation, I cast my personal bias to the wind and wait for the final judgement of the all-knowing Superiometer.
Andy: Did you fall down (on your head)? Are you feeling ok? : - )
I have not doubted the superiority of the superi-ometer until now. Comparing contemporaries makes sense. This comparison....
Check out "Hissing of Summer Lawns" (1975). Kate Bush was 17? Listen to the "Jungle Line": Peter Gabriel does not get there until the 80s!
Joni knocked down a kabillion doors and windows that Kate Bush and every artist after Joni walked through!
A VERY short list of Joni Fans and folks she Influenced: Jimi Hendrix (would bring a tape machine to clubs to record her live performances in NY for his own purposes), Peter Green, Robert Fripp (early KC played "Michael from Mountains"!!!!), Led Zeppelin (“That’s the music that I play at home all the time - Joni Mitchell,” Jimmy Page 1975 Rolling Stone),
Zappa's Hot Rats musicians - John Guerin and Max Bennet, Sandy Denny, Richard Thompson, and the entire Fairport gang/extended family,
Peter Gabriel (“Joni, I think, I’ve been in love with not just because of the writing, but also [because] she was an experimenter. She was pushing the musical boundaries both in the way she wrote harmonies and then exploring arrangements. Great artist.”),
Prince, Suzanne Vega, Chrissie Hynde, Alanis Morrissete, Herbie Hancock (devoted an entire album to Joni's music!!!), Jaco (your comments are spot on), Chaka Khan, John Wetton (KC, UK, Asia: "When I listened to Joni Mitchell, I realized lyrics could be about personal subjects rather than pointing a finger.... Then, when I heard Joni Mitchell, a big light went on. I realized if I’m going to write about pain, then I should write about my own pain."),
Bjork ("...I was obsessed with Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and Hejira as a teenager... She almost made her own type of music style with those, it's more a woman's world."), Robben Ford, Donna Summer, Tom Scott, Jackson Browne, Taylor Swift, Lorde, Frank Ocean, Annie Lennox ("She was writing these extraordinary songs with this extraordinary sort of commentary, poetic, special way, and this voice and this incredible playing. As soon as you heard the first chord and her voice … I thought 'I want to do that.'")
Charles MINGUS (who chose Joni as a collaborator on his last compositions).
I love them both but Joni's Hissing of the Summer Lawns, Court n Spark and Heija are desert Island disks for me. I also love the Shadows and Light album and the fact that she managed to transfer her music onto the stage with such a great band.
I was dissapointed when trying to find live Kate Bush footage to find out that she only did one tour. The footage of that tour, shows her being carried around by male dancers (pre-madona era) and there is one point where it is revield there is some lip- syncing going on. Either that, or the editing makes it look like that.
Also, the band were relegated to a puppet master type senario with no lighting.
I'm just not into those kind of shows personally.
One big factor is ten year difference in technology. But owning only 5 albums of Joni is not satisfactory. my gawd, her first 5 were brilliant and they were before her jazzy era. you must correct that, make amends or go to confession or sumtin.🎉
I have heard more than 5, a lot more...
@AndyEdwardsDrummer just messin witchu
A much more relevant comparison would be Joni Mitchell v Laura Nyro.
Both Mitchell and Bush were hugely influenced by Nyro. Joni happily acknowledges this (calling Nyro "the only artist I'm happy to be compared to") but for sime reason Kate Bush has never, afaik, given Nyro any credit.
Sorry, but Kate Bush is little more than a poor man's version of Nyro. Her early records in particular owe a *huge* debt to Laura's New York Tendaberry album (listen in particular to Captain For Dark Mornings, Gibsom Street, and the title track from that album) and Christmas And The Beads of Sweat (most of side 2, especially Map To The Treasure). Her vocal phrasing, for example, is often virtually identical! Those albums were released in 1969 and 1970 respectively.
And by the way, before anybody starts, Nyro is not "obscure" or unknown. Her music, mainly her songwriting, made her a double millionaire by the time she was 19, in one week in November 1969 she had 3 songs she'd written in the Billboard Chart Top 10 (a songwriting feat only ever bettered by Lennon and McCartney, I believe), David Geffen launched his entite career as her manager, and, whatever you think of it, she's in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame (since 2012) and the songwriters Hall of Fame.
Exactly. Laura Nyro was the real deal and I still listen to those records I first heard in the late 60’s, early 70’s. Still fresh sounding and totally engaging. Never saw her live unfortunately. Among a handful of artists I missed but wish I’d seen perform. Monk another.
The question is like comparing a sunset to twilight time, each with their own magnificence, unique splendor, while not always what magnifies/reflects your mood.
Please don't retire the super-i-ometer. It's a valuable and powerful conceit.
To whom, etc. If you’re a Bush fan, check out Esperanza Spalding if you haven’t done so yet. Same deal. Gorgeous soprano, killer videos, and wildly imaginative songwriting. I don’t know if any critics have called her the jazz world’s answer to Bush, but it’s time someone did. I suspect both would be flattered.
I do like Esperanza Spalding - she’s a superb bass player!
Jane Siberry combines the two and is genuinely batshit crazy in a cool way...
Don't tell me the Superiometer isn't real!
lol, I knew it was going to be a tie from the start. I feel pretty much the same. Both were such pioneers in different ways.
I love both and find it hard to compare them objectively, they both have such depths of talent that its a wonder the Superiorometer didn't spontaneously self combust - or maybe it did/should ;) In the end I go with Joni though because she released more albums and had a longer active career.
I say, keep the Superi-O-Meter! Another great video Andy. As a great Joni admirer, and an admirer of Kate, but more Joni-I love all the parameters (including popularity). The machine is good, even if it’s your machine!!!
No knock on Kate, I think she’s great, but Joni for me has lived much longer in my head and heart. I think the Superiometer is great, you should do more.
They are both important artists. Innovative, super talented, and succefull. However, Joni towers above most. Not only did she open the door and inspire many female artists like Bush but she was a great risk taker, essentially turning her back on success to explore different more jazzier music forms.
Kate Bush denied she was influenced by Joni Mitchell despite the fact she felt a lot of respect for her. She confessed she avoided listening to Joni's work precisely because she didn't want to be influenced by her or any other female artist (except Billie Holiday). I've been a big KB admirer right from the start and I could never hear any connection between both except the fact they were great female singer-songwriters. Even the way they sing and their voices come from very different techniques. On the other hand, Tori Amos, very often compared to Kate Bush, especially in her early albums, always claimed Joni Mitchell's influence on her work.
Thanks, I was not aware of this. I think they are both important and I have a great deal of time for their later works too.
Wuthering Heights was the first ever self-penned UK number 1 for a solo female artist... and she was 18. When you think about it that is amazing. The impact of that in the British music scene is on a par with The Beatles and The Sex Pistols.
And Bush wasn't a great risk taker? I'm not sure there were many greater risk takers than Kate Bush.
Laura Nyro smashed the door open for female singer songwriters and by her second album in 1968 aged 20 she had gained total artistic control via Columbia boss Clive Davis. Nyro is the only influence Joni Mitchell ever stated. Wuthering Heights is influenced by Nyro's Captain for Dark Mornings (1969). Amos and Steely Dan were influenced by Nyro as well as scores of others. Nyro "probably influenced more successful songwriters than anyone " Elton John, 2007.
Thanks Andy I’m pretty new here and love your channel. Being just 24 hours new to your channel and I’ve listened to two of your comparisons. This one of course and Zappa/Mothers vs. McLaughlin/Mahavishnu. I was very surprised at the end because as I was thinking I’m really interested in Andy’s opinion here you went and said the same thing.
First and foremost, I’m from America. Halfway into decade number 6 so my musical hero’s are mostly musicians/bands from the 60s and 70s, with some 80s thrown in the mix. I’ve lived over 25 years on the east coast and over 30 on the west coast. And luckily enough as a young lad, grew up in Hawaii. I first heard the Beatles there. And it was ‘Meet the Beatles,’ no mistake about that. In first grade I wasn’t figuring out lyrics, and Paul wasn’t dead yet. And by god he’s still alive and Rolling Stone probably thinks he’s a top ten all time bassist.
The reason I mention this stuff is I couldn’t help but feel deep down that in both comparison videos, you were batting for the home team! No knock on that either. I’ll admit I don’t know McLaughlins guitar work that well, but I did own Birds of Fire and listened to other Mahavishnu albums at friends houses in college etc. But for me, Frank blew him out of the water, as did Jimmy Page, Jerry Garcia, Jeff Beck, Jimi Hendrix. All those ‘J’ guys. I respect John McL but he seems like he plays lightning fast just for the sake of that he can. Frank had more tone and it never felt forced when he’d speed it up. But it’s all good. They’re both amazing on their axes .. I do miss Frank after unbelievably 30 years gone. And here in the states we could sure use a lot of him letting the Republican Party ……will leave it at that.
Joni and Kate…Come on, Kate is wonderful, and I’ve listened to her from the get go, love her so much. But……Joni has the experience. She wrote the song Woodstock and those goofballs CSN made it a hit. Court and Spark, Blue, Hissing of summer lawns. And have you ever seen her paintings? Good lord I know it’s not music but being one myself the two medium’s are very related. Let’s face it they both are very talented. Very…
Maybe it’s because I’m from the other side of the pond I have a bias? I just felt that with your two vids I’ve seen so far.
I do find it interesting, but growing up I was much more into Brit bands and solo musicians than in the states. As I’ve grown older than dirt and opened up to other artists styles and so on I still feel that things haven’t changed all that much. But only Joni Mitchell could write a lyric like ‘I’m a pretty good cook, I’m sitting on my groceries, come up to my kitchen and I’ll show you my best recipe! ‘ Ouch. Gotta love her.
Anyway, I’ve joined your channel, I have all the time in the world til they whoever they are take me away. And I’m wordy. So thank you for all you do, it’s engaging. Hopefully you read your comments.. even the full of hot air ones like yours truly. But yes, I digress, you homered it on those two. And ya know what? That’s great. I would have done the same. 👍🏻🎸
It’s so immoral that I’m gonna plump for Judee Sill.
Kate and Joni are exceptional poets, they sit among the greatest male/female songwriters. I met Kate once and she was very sweet and kind, so down to earth, not at all glitzy.
I can’t watch it. There is no debate. Better singer, better poet, better musician, better innovator. The Canadian hands down.
Joni Mitchell's music has meant far more to me over the years than the music of Kate Bush, but the fact that arguably reasonable people seem to disagree about which one is greater suggests that there may be something I have missed. I eagerly await the Superiometer's verdict. Maybe I'll even listen to some Kate Bush songs, too. Anybody have any recommendations?
Hounds of Love, especially side 2. My favorite song of all time is Rockets Tail by Kate❤
All her songs are great Start with A kick inside.
For me The Dreaming is Kate Bush's masterpiece
@@sethleon2158 While I agree this is true, it's a far too aggressively experimental album to recommend to a Joni Mitchell fan. While Joni has certainly been experimental, for this album, Kate just went mental.
apples and oranges comparison. But no one can touch Joni. As great as Kate is.
Like you, Andy, my favourite English and Canadian female singer songwriters. Only half way through but perhaps the most difficult decision you will ever make. 😂👍
Joni. ♥
A tie eh? Never saw that coming!
Immense fun as always. Even my wife enjoys watching these videos. There is no greater compliment!
🌠❤ Another Good Video Andy ...Pat the Super or Meter on the Head 4 Me...thatsa good boy superior o aah meter..or however u spell it...
Oh Dear, this is an absolute Sophie’s Choice. Whoever loses will upset me.
16:34 an artist that sounds a LOT like Joni ‘s singing and song writing is virtuoso bass player and singer Esperanza Spalding ... that wordiness....she frequently cites her as an influence.
She also has an AWESOME prog rock album D+ Evolution
Joni Mitchell = 🇨🇦
Other than that, love the channel. Best music channel in YT
Joni effortlessly wins for me on musicianship, lyrics, artistry, sensitivity. She's on a different level entirely and has the superior discography. In my opinion, that is.
Ditto. Hejira is a perfect album in my opinion. I never tire of it. I discover something new every time I listen to a Joni album.
I wholeheartedly agree.
Love this video series! Would love to see Deep Purple vs The Who.
I'm a little late posting, so I'll keep it short. I'm only moderately familiar with each ladies music. However, I'd like to give my experience with each. When I listen to Kate I don't enjoy it as much as I think I should. When I listen to Joni I like it more that I thought I would. But that's just me. Thanks again for what you're doing.
That’s my experience too. For me it has to do with delivery. Kate, to me, seems rigid and harsh which is off-putting. Joni feels more approachable in tone and fits my ear. Yet both are stellar and are a standoff on the parameters Andy used.
This could start a war.
Please take us back, Britain!! Lol
Or Scotland, to be more accurate...
@@bluecrueful we had a good run.
Oh, and "long live the Superiometer and the associated dialogue". :) :)
What a bizarre comparison
I almost didn't want to watch this, as I love both artists. And it's like comparing say football to rugby. But I'm glad I did. Great video. P.S. it's Joni for me, probably because I'm more into folk than prog.
Kate Bush is alright but Joni obviously.
I had foreseen a tie, well done! However, I stand with Kate. I feel Joni as being ultra feminine, possibly too much time spent in the self. Recently, I found a copy of 'Court and Spark' meant to give it another try. I could appreciate it, but meh. My go to Joni album is 'Don Juan's Reckless Daughter'. I relate to the sprawl of it. Kate transcends. Her songs, somewhat molecular, are invasive beyond mere humanity. She delves. I do not believe there is a more complete, female artist of her caliber. As you say, Andy, my favorite Kate album is always in flux, as well. There have been so many gems for every mood along the way. I also have her full catalogue. Thanks for this!
Joni Mitchell > Kate Bush and it's not close.
The SuperiOmeter is the machine messiah with its mindless singular eye. 👁
Gonna be "that guy" that stands up for King and Country and points out Joni's Canadian first and foremost, eh?! We gotta take 'em where we can get 'em. :)
You reference Joni's "shrill" voice. She literally loses that wailing, high-pitched shrillness *entirely* after Blue. Which was what...her fourth studio album, just 3 or 4 years into her career! Hmmm, I don't find it hard to believe that you only own 5 of her albums.
Kate Bush❤
Not even close... Joni all the way... I like Kate... she made 3 or 4 albums I like a lot... but with Joni I feel it is far richer... From 1974-79 it's about as good as music ever got in any genre. A bit like Stevie Wonder's run of LPs.
😊Kate.
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Kate Bush is great, nothing else to say... but Joni, she is the GOAT. Not comparable in my opinion.
The problem with Kate is that she has not been very prolific and I lost interest in her after the album the Red Shoes. She was replaced in my world by Tori Amos. Tori sounded a lot like Kate on her first albums, so that’s why I got interested in her initially.
I have never listened to Joni, so I don’t have an opinion on this matter. But Kate was a godess in my universe in the eighties.
Madness.
IMHO, Kate's music is far more interesting. Joni's lyrics are so creative.
Kate who? This debate brought to you by your friends at Stranger Things. Next up Metallica vs. Krokus.
Silly argument. They both owe something to Laura Nyro.
Joni all day long. No comparison.
There is absolutely no comparison between the two, first there is no Best, however Joni is a Goddess of here own style song writing aside she invented a whole guitar/ music style. I would have shifted to comparing Joni to Dylan.
How about ranking Joni Mitchell's albums?
Joni is unparalleled, I love Kate though.
Don Juan's Reckless Daughter is my favorite
The Super-i-ometer is a blast, hopefully you've applied for a patent.
Pay no attention to the Superiometer behind the curtain...good one, Captain Andy; I was thinking that the natural analog is comparing the sunset to the sunrise - or the Northern & Southern hemispheres - both are equally peerless, mysterious, timeless, etc. Perhaps a boxing match would settle the tie...
Heinz Baked Beans or HP Beans? Crossply or Radial Tyres? HP Sauce or HP Fruity Sauce? Gas or Electric cooker? Marrowfat or Garden Peas?
Is that Superi-o-meter an example of Black Country A.I. and the new post-industrial revolution ? Joni all the way. No contest. Thanks Andy.
Let’s start by feeding 1st parameter into the superiometer …
1 - Who’s the best?
Superiometer - Joni Mitchell 😀
my superiometer just compared a flower to the sky...and the sky came out tops by a mile. a minor software update on andy`s superiometer might work wonders, who knows?
Joke question - Kate Bush is not in Joni's league (and I'm English).
I would agree with that, but probably not in the way you mean.
Theres no way I can choose!
Kate Bush and it is not even close. Joni tends to put me to sleep.
Need a penalty shootout to decide and call me a shallow, sexist pig, but Kate wins it on her beauty and sex appeal. I mean, just look at that face in the picture for this video. ❤️❤️❤️
Despite my openly admitted bias toward Kate, this seemed fair. Joni’s catalogue isn’t that familiar to me but I’ve heard a reasonable amount and remember seeing the gig the BBC put out in 79/80 with Jaco on bass. Her objective importance is indisputable.
The only thing I’d say about the virtuoso instrumentalist points going to Joni is that despite it seeming hard to push back with guys like Jaco and the like in her band… equally I can’t imagine even Jaco playing any more beautifully than John Giblin on tracks like ‘Babooshka’ or ‘Breathing’. Which brings into question how you measure virtuosity. I take it as usually being the ability to improvise and solo at a heightened level,(perhaps more the jazz interpretation), or to be able to play extremely difficult pre-composed pieces,( perhaps more the Classical interpretation).
However, since there is still a subjective component in assessing these categories, I always think it leaves the assessment of the quality of one’s contribution to a composition or to ensemble playing as being equally as valid. Perhaps it could be categorised as being even more subjective than the more conventionally interpreted notion of musical virtuosity, but ultimately it’s the one that feels more true to oneself regardless of the overall consensus.
It’s why I always feel that I should confirm that the fusion players are objectively better musicians than musicians associated with other modern music forms,( Prog being probably its closest competitor, if we view things in such a manner), but the musicianship of players operating in other fields can sound to me, and be experienced by me, as better musicianship than much of the work of Jazz/Fusion players.
Why?
Isn’t this a bit like comparing Pedigree Chum against Trill
I sort of knew from the first Superiometer video I watched (Kraftwerk vs Pink Floyd) that the whole thing was a fantasy, however, saying that, what you have is a very objective way at looking at music and artists, and your concluding comments are very important.
For me, it will be Joni, I own three Joni albums, no Kate, too much 80"s going on in Kate's albums for my tastes, however, I fully get that she is a very intelligent woman and her approach to music was intelligent. Who gives a shit whether I like her or not, that is totally irrelevant, the genius of the woman is indisputable.
What do you mean...fantasy?
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer 😅😅 an invention, an illusion you err playing to distract us. As soon as you said "I'll turn it on" and it sounded like you were shovelling coal into the furnace of the Flying Scotsman I thought " that's a joke". However, as I say , it's an interesting way of stepping outside of yourself to critique music, and as you say, may even get you to change your mind 👍
Putting nationalities to one side I prefer Kate to Joni, but have to say that if you remove your totally subjective tenth parameter (who do you like more) the win would go to Joni 5-4.
Since he’s providing the answers to all 10 questions, and considering several of them, even to him, were very close, it’s mostly subjective.
@@interstellardave Sure, it’s all a bit of fun. But that tenth parameter wasn’t even pretending to be objective.
I never connected with Kate Bush, mainly because her enunciation means I' ve never known what she's on about.
Joni Mitchell has been a constant companion from Blue onwards and as a Jazz musician, entranced by both her lyrics and her guitar tunings, for me she's rarely had a dud for the rest of her career.
As yet , I find Kate Bush impenetrable. That may change.
I'm glad you used a machine, otherwise it would just be your personal opinion!
Me too!
Has the machine ever said 'I can't let you do that Andy' ?@@AndyEdwardsDrummer
it is absurd to even ask the question. joni is unquestionably one of the greatest songwriters of our time, period. kate is good but hardly top tier or world class
keith emerson vs rick wakeman pkease !!!
It's a very, VERY difficult decision but I have to go with Joni.
Kate bush
The Joni DVD is 'Refuge on the Road', which contains 'Wild Things Run Free'.
As great as that band was, Joni said that she and bassist huband Larry Klein would need to sit the lads down after every couple gigs and remind them that they weren't playing in Led Zeppelin. Some of Joni's long-time fans surely got a shock with that lineup really ripping it up. But damn, Vinnie's drumming is ferociously fine.
As for Kate or Joni - I love the music of both, though not everything by either. Kate was definitely the more untethered and innovative as well as the more creatively inspired. No slight to Joni but she was either sustaining or combining existing traditions, i.e., folk and jazz. A Kate performance was exactly that - an engaging Performance. Joni was more solitary in every sense.
It is interesting that both singers had such high-pitched and often off-putting voices earlier in their career yet later those voices lowered and their tone darkened. I love Kate's on 'The Sensual World', Joni's on 'Havana'.
This was a fun video. And yes, thank goodness the score was a tie.