@Caratacus I mean you could really easily portray the post scarcity (no such thing, just a change in what is scarce) paradise as a guided cage where the government literally rules everything because it's the only thing that owns any property. It would simultaneously follow the trend of hating on starfleet and would also add an interesting spin to the world building.
@@jchoneandonly Except that there was not much of an indication for that. The only time starfleet was hard to it's Citizens was when they were violating interstellar treaties - such as the cardassian DMZ und the whole Sheliak incident....or being otherwise criminal asses...and the fact that these people could establish significant colonies without anyone noticing or stopping them just proves even more how easy it must be to get a ship and how little the average citizen is being watched.....try doing this sort of shit on current day earth...good luck...and modern Trek is just Garbage. Not on account of too much SJWing or anything, just badly written. Which is an achievement. Voyager was already bad enough...
Like I've said before, the Federation doesn't use currency but it doesn't ban it either, nor does it seem to actually ban private enterprise. In DS9 we see off-duty Starfleet officers gambling with Gold Pressed Latinum alongside civilians and travelers. It's possible that civilian ships are purchased either from outside the federation or manufactured by hobby businesses within the Federation.
As long as goods and services are exchanged, a medium of exchange (that is, money) will arise. Sure your replicators may ensure your NEEDS are essentially met (meaning the only need left is replicator repair technicians and manufacturers) but for anything you WANT there will have to be some sort of system to make sure goods and services are valued and exchanged fairly.
i dont think federation is a cashless society per se. citizens get basic education/residence/food/medical. think of it like a promised small studio apartment and 3 meals a day(following a standardized Energy/nutrients intake per day) on reaching adulthood. they probably adopt a social role evaluation based system. you want a bigger apartment, eat fancier food or indulge in hobbies do something/anything, scrub conduits which probably has long hours but low "evaluation points" imagine being a musician but your music only appeals to 1 person.. so your evaluation is probably quite low. if you join starfleet, you get more perks but that's like a reward for passing the academy. if you join private sectors, like farms/shipping/etc, your renumeration is on your employer. non--replicated food is worth several times replicated food, picard family wine is one example. the employer gets paid in latinum/dilithium/fuel/non-replicate-able items, they disburse the value to their employees. now how does starfleet officers get latinum for personal use? moonlighting or taking temporary jobs while awaiting assignments. how does starfleet get resources to keep their programs running? a form of racketeering and offering services that small-medium enterprises cant afford/incapable of carrying out. like terraforming, charting new space, patrolling trade routes and forming trade agreements with other powers(there's probably a decent tax between free enterprises and other races plus miscellaneous fees.) other way for federation to earn money is to sell ships parts(not the latest/tatical parts) and provide docking/drydock services. economies of scale still applies for production and repair. and those private ships pay latinum... and probably some directly to the staff to get their ships faster service. the supervisor probably distributes the latinum to the staff that do the most efficient work. its not a bribe... just an urgency fee. as long as federation ships are kept on schedule.
I think Picard was pretty clear about that in First Contact, quote: "The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, MONEY DOESN'T EXIST in the 24th century." Zero room for interpretation there. The Federation is a RBE ( Resource Based Economy ), currency and money are meaningless in such an economy. To quote Jacques Fresco: "Money is a nothing thing."
In the mid-90s at a Star Trek Convention I picked up two "Starship Schematics Manuals" that had drawing for multiple different cargo ships, star ships and even bulk fueling tankers for star ships. They were all pretty detailed with all the info about size, weight, crew size etc. Remember one was even an automated bulk carrier with no crew.
Yeah I've always wondered if some business operated a ship like the cruise ship from the 5th Element. The Risans are definitely a people who build something like that.
Give Quark 5 weeks and a Miranda. He'll have easily converted that thing into a touring luxury cruiser and set up a route visiting many enticing (and expensive) destinations.
The fact that civilian craft are based on older starfleet tech isn't suprising at all. It works exactly like in real life,military develops cutting edge technology and then shares it with civilians (internet,gps went through the same path).Another thing is how you aquire them in no money world,although i presume even as SF officer you get some form of currency (probably virtual Federation Credit or something else,otherwise how all those Feds would be able to gamble at Quark's) or you can loan a ship when you intend to haul cargo and after some time it is yours.
The first part of your statement is correct but I'm not so sure on the second part. Why would anyone accept Federation Credit for GPL it doesn't make sense, even if Federation Credit was a thing I doubt they'd make it some kind of resource you can simply give out as that has a high probability of becoming crime riddled. I personally think it comes more down to Trade, the Ferengi for sure aren't giving away anything for free. Whether you're trading goods or handing out favours to get GPL you're still doing something in exchange for 'foreign currency' I don't think its as simple as a currency exchange.
Boeing, airbus, Cessna and embraer etc make cutting edge aircraft. Luxury yachts are more advanced than military frigates. Civilians have smartphones while the military have radios the size of bricks. What cutting edge technology does the military have other than weapon systems?
@@SGz_Eliminated I dont know, a well working trading system requires some form of currency. Simply trading one good for another becomes messy very fast. Also we do see federation officers with money (gambling at quarks was already mentioned). What i think is that the Federation does have a currency but one that is only used for trading with non Federation worlds. Also Federation Citizens might have something like a baseincome of said currency they receive no matter what proffession they follow, which they can use to trade with non Federation companies. Otherwise how would a Federation citizen be able to visit a non Federation world? He wouldnt be able to pay for a hotel or food or transport or souvenirs etc. Non if a non Federation Member aquires said currency he could use it to buy goods and services from Federation worlds. After all, i doubt that the Federation gives up stuff for free.
@@Daimo83 Well there's 2 things you must understand, first military is made as robust as possible, thus no smartphones as those break if you look at them meanly and are dependent on fixed transmission stations that are easily disabled and second military tends to use what works so if there's no good reason to replace something it won't be replaced. In regards to Frigates frankly I'm not sure that's true for recent designs. Also as mentioned GPS started in the military (and is still better then civilian systems though that's not due to tech but settings), jets were also developed first for the military, also certain fabrics were first developed for the military then adopted by civilian markets. There's plenty of things that were developed for the military first (most of the time it's civilian companies developing things for the military rather then military forces doing the developing themselves) since as a governmental agency they tend to have decent funds and less risk (as they generally know what they want).
The Federation does have currency it is called the Federation Credit. Going by Encounter at Farpoint and Voyager's first episode people at not carrying physical money as it accounts linked to their identity. Phisical currency was a thing in the 23rd century as that is how Uhura bought a Tribble from Cyrano Jones. It is United Earth that subscribes to a philosophy of non-acquisition of wealth and self improvement. Just because Earth does not value money others do not. Ask the Vulcans who require royalty for their intellectual property like a fuel synthesizer. Not to mention that Vulcan Master that fleeced Tuvok and Janeway seeing their Starfleet uniforms. Merchants see Starfleet personnel as suckers whether Human, Vulcan or Ferengi.
I always figured that the Federations ideal of improving oneself would lead to many entrepreneurial individuals. I can see people getting cargo ships to help contribute to the massive economy of the Federation. As far as the whole "why not replicate it" argument. We see constantly in Star Trek of people been able tell the difference between "real" and replicated food. I always thought real food would taste better, Kinda like the difference between real and diet soda. This could create high demand for "real" food and other products. Hence the need for an expansive mercantile fleet and countless entrepreneurs to supply demand.
I always thought a weird line from DS9 " in college you made it home for dinner every night, and burned through all your teleporter rations(or something like that) and i was like " i thought you guys had like unlimited power with that sort of stuff, surprised that you would limit use by a cadet
@@danielyeshe Why allocate a limited amount of uses if there's no lack of power and resources to build transport pads? I think that line was said by Sisko to Jake when Jake got accepted into some writing program, possibly in the episode when they were testing an old Bajoran sail ship design
My guess would be that they institute rationing for cadets, not out of necessity, but as a means to instill discipline in them for situations where they might find themselves stranded, or on away missions, or any number of scenarios where replicators aren't available and resources need to be conserved.
Maybe it's not scarcity of power but a way to limit overuse. Not because the power there isn't abundant but because if transporters are completely free for use then there would never be downtime for transporter operators. And potentially wear and tear on the machinery itself.
No such thing as unlimited power . The Dominion war had everyone's basic power allotment reduced as they were replicating material for the war effort . Antimatter, and Pergium was at a premium. Remember Ezri Dax family was Pergium minors on an independent world . Rich because of mining an energy source.
Technically, Starfleet has first contact protocols as well as specialized diplomats and anthropologists whose entire job it is to get with the whole "Greetings, from the people of Earth". I'm pretty sure that it was written into the contract that should the Hansens discover potential allies, Starfleet would be handling the talks.
And pretty soon, STO's next event will allow us to get our own cargo ship. No more super advanced warships! It's time to haul cargo! *puts on trucker hat*
you can get cargo ships in STO in fact you could acquire the cardassian cargo ship and a couple of others they had limited weapon slots were not very agile and tended to be more for people doing the none space combat stuf like crafting and sending crew on missions and one even had bank and market place accsess
'Course, it only scales up to Tier 4, so once you reach Captain you'll probably want to upgrade - so if you're into the roleplay aspect, that works out perfectly. (After all, what justification is there for Starfleet assigning command of a front-line vessel to some jumped-up cadet with a field commission? Once you've proved yourself as a captain, then of course you can expect a better command.)
@@naturelass I know, but the next Event is going to allow us to get a Kobiyashi Maru to actually fly (or the KDF version for non-Feds). Sppaaaaaaace truckin'!
@@CertifiablyIngame *to quote Lt. Frank Drebin from Police Squad: "You take a chance getting up in the morning, crossing the street or sticking your face in a fan"* *not exactly sure what the Starfleet equivalent of this might be but i'm sure there is one*
@@CertifiablyIngame I only learnt this today, but apparently the music they used in that ad? _They pirated it!_ 😂 And feel free to pirate as much of my comment's version of that as you wish 🖖❤️
My take on Starfleet / Currency. Within starfleet you don't need it, since anything everything can be provided (paradise). But as you provide services within Starfleet you accumulate "credits" that you can withdraw to use/exchange with other alien races that do use currency. This allows those that wish to expand beyond Starfleet borders to do so with little monetary issue, those that just wish to serve can do so with out the hastle of managing income/currency. (this is all head cannon)
This is largely what it is like to serve in the military today. The Government pays for everything you need. Your works in service earn money that you can use to buy that which you want.
While that does sound logical, we have already seen on multiple occasions in-game that while individual captains probably could work out some system of trade if allowed to kick the question up the chain of command, there isn't really a Federation ATM where you can cash in your credits for cash. This sounds like an oversight as it would make perfect sense for a Starfleet captain to have some sort of cash fund for whatever needs to be bought from outside to help with missions, but it might simply be an oversight as the concept of money has become so alien to the Federation that they might not even understand the need.
Captain Kathryn Janeway: "Tuvok's meditation lamp. I was with him when he got it six years ago, from a Vulcan master. Who doubled the price when he saw our Starfleet insignias." From (VOY: "The Gift") Today's money is not backed by a unit of energy.
The Transport of seed and stock for the establishment of new colonies, particularly on worlds with class M and L environments but do not have edible flora or fauna, this is often the case on desert planets. This is done as part of "terraforming" the planet to develop an ecology that can sustain the anticipated lifeforms/races expected for that colony.
There is indications that Star Fleet officers and crew are remunerated in some manner. Ryker collecting his winnings and Dax too, show that they had resources outside of what’s seen. Also one of the premises of early Star Trek was a civilization free of want where ones personal interests are pursued. It’s not hard to imagine in such a society everyone is relatively wealthy and can afford something as expensive as a starship.
9:45 There are several reasons civilian vessels underperform: - Efficiency. Especially in fuel, Military design tend to be gas guzzlers. Just compare the consumption of your average Main Battle tank with a car. Or a fighter jet with a jetliner. I fully asume that still applies to the 24st century. - Reliability. The miltiary can afford to experiment. If a part only survives 1 day at warp, that is something star fleet can deal with. They got the resoruces, logistics and spare parts. A civil captain has to get as much lifetime out of each component as possible. - Security. You really do not want your latest and greatest stuff to fall into the hands of another power, even a supposed ally like the klingons. Deploying it to the civil sector right away? A surefire way to get this design leaked! And do not think any of the other powers do it differently. It equally applies to klingons. We even had Gul Dukat in command of a cardassian freighter once. 10:30 They do not just throw Starships at every claim. The stuff has to undego some serious peer review and laboratory testing. Think EM-Drive.
ya for a space port it was a bit empty. the place should have been seeing ships coming and going all the time. it would have been a good way to have some none Starfleet centered story lines. all we ended up getting was some stories about the firangi at not much more.
@@tommyfred6180 A lot of the time someone was shooting at DS9, or some other thing was going on that probably would've endangered civilian traffic. In the series, it seemed the civilian "life" was there to add flavor and backstory to the episodes, but seems like the writers thought writing about "Bob the Transport Captain who makes the run from Bajor to DS9 with passengers, moba fruit and bootleg kanar" would probably get a bit boring.
That is something i missed in all the shows more about the civilian life in the star trek universe. Where are the starliners,cargo,science ships but also where are the fleets of the member world inside the fedaration in 24 century
I personally don’t think every Star Trek show “”needs”” to be on a starfleet vessel or station (technology DS9 wasn’t a starfleet station but that’s splitting hairs) I mean Picard wasn’t really a starfleet show even so we have already started down that road for good or ill, I think that it would need to be handled really well and need a dam good cast as it would be such a departure from what fans consider the norm also it would need a ship that really grabs people but it can’t be the standard saucer shape we get from Federation ships as they are military ships and this would be a more civilian class ship.
permeus I think that would be interesting, but I personally like the Starfleet ships personally, but I can see how a new generation of Star Trek could be non-starflett
I wouldn’t mind a mini-series set outside of Starfleet (personally wishing for either a Klingon miniseries or maybe a miniseries over the Cardasian border wars with a young Miles O’Brian)
A show in the Trek Universe with a civilian ship (even if built by a Starfleet shipyard) and a civilian crew would be nice. Give us a view of the civilian side of the Federation. DS9 may have been a Bajorin station, but it was administrated by Starfleet which has its own complications Sisco had to manage, especially with Bajor not being a member world. But so far we have only gotten glimpses for true civilian-run operations. The tricky part would be defining the type of ship and crew and what they do.
The Federation probably has some form of allowance system for things that just couldn't be replicated at home. How those Riker have latinum to go gambling at Quark's. Because I don't see Quark allowing buy ins with smiles and hugs. The fact the Sisko mentioned almost using up his transporter allowance to go home from the academy for dinner.
My headcanon about the no-money Federation thing is that they don't actually have infinite resources, they just have such vast resources that they don't bother accounting for what amounts to petty cash. The real-world equivalent to this is a tropical resort such as Hedonism, where you pay some usuriously large amount of money up-front just to get into the place for a certain period of time, and then as long as that duration isn't up yet, they'll give you all the drinks and food and suntan lotion and condoms you want, and not bother counting up exactly how much you're costing them, under the assumption that the average person isn't going to use up supplies worth more than they have already paid. The difference being that for the Federation, you can be born in the "resort", and instead of paying up front, you're just assumed to be incapable of costing them more than they can afford, given the amount of resources they can generate with an antimatter reactor hooked up to a replicator. Only when you start getting into extreme situations, like ownership of a whole starship, does any sort of economic situation begin to arise, at which point it's less about monetary resources and more about favor-trading or expanding the sum total of Federation knowledge or something like that.
Like all you can eat buffets and those sweet and makeup stores in my country. You basically pay a stupid amount of money for such a frivolous thing and once in you can have all the candy you want for the day or however long you are there or get as much makeovers and get as much makeup to go hairstyles and parlor services included.
The problem I have with Star Trek cargo crafts have been that ever since the drawings for TOS, the cargo ships were basically an engine that tows a string of cargo containers much as we see with modern trains. However, the concept of warp drive requires establishing a warp bubble around the entire ship and presumably such bubbles originate around the warp nacelles so just having a small ship with one nacelle towing a string of containers simply shouldn't work. Really, the cargo ships should be multiple units with warp cores and warp nacelles that can be interspersed along the cargo containers, perhaps even a long cage within which the cargo containers could be secured or a backbone with multiple nacelles or perhaps being a long nacelle in itself to which the cargo containers are attached.
No, the basis of warp travel says that the warp bubble has to enclose the ENTIRE ship; not just around the engines. If you're right, then a ship would explode when it activated its' warp drive.... because the engines and nacelles would go to warp.... but the rest of the ship wouldn't. That doesn't make any sense. Warp engines work by creating highly tuned and deployed warp bubbles around the entire ship; that's why most ships look generally the same. The high-end math to calculate those fields doesn't even exist (yet); that's how HARD it is to do on a consistent basis (and why it took Earth a long time to build ships that could match a Vulcan or Andorian ship's max speed, in the time of Archer). Just like all aircraft carriers basically look the same - design must follow function - when we invent FTL drives, the ships (and the math needed to build and run them) will be invented at about the same time. You can't design an FTL drive without the engineering and math capability to go along with it.... which is one reason why I think it will take humanity another 50-100 years to get to that point.
@Jope Lamp It isn't a wave of anything that needs extending but the pocket of space formed by the warp nacelles as it is this pocket of space that can travel faster than light hence the long train of cargo containers originally envisioned in the drawings for TOS simply doesn't make sense. Interspersing drive units with nacelles periodically within that chain of cargo containers would make sense not the one disc with one nacelle in the front. Now if the nacelle itself was a long tube down the line of cargo containers perhaps as a spine to which the containers are attached then that would make sense but that's not what Matt Jefferies drew though the cargo freighters in Star Trek Enterprise looked a little like that except the spine looked more like an access corridor then a nacelle.
Star Trek is so inconsistent on money within the Federation. Star Trek Generations Kirk said he sold his house even though in Star Trek 4 the voyage home Kirk said they had no money. Also even if earth and the Federation didn't use money within the Federation for goods and services. The Federation would still need to have some form of currency to handle trade and commerce with non Federation worlds and groups. Unless they just barter for stuff. Ps Also Quark has dozens of Star fleet officers running tabs at his bar. Sure charge it to Star fleet and the Federation but I don't see Quark accepting stem bolts everyday as payment.
As Kirk and selling his house goes, just because he "sold" his house it doesn't necessarily mean that he got paid for it. It's entirely possible that saying he "sold his house" is a hold over phrase from the days when things were bought and sold with money, sort of like how we still say things like, we have X on film/tape when there is no film or tape involved anymore, only digital video. So, in this case, Kirk could have simply meant transferring ownership but they still call it selling their house. As far as currency for use with non-Federation planets goes, the easiest solution to this (by the TNG timerame at least) would be to simply replicate all of the currency they need. Of course, this is technically counterfeiting but I could at least see it used on a small scale for undercover first encounter missions. On a larger scale once official first contact has been made, it would be easy enough for the Federation to replicate minerals, ores, and some "manufactured" goods for trade with non-Federation members. Lastly, in regards to Quarks, the Federation probably acquires a decent amount of gold pressed latinum from various sources which Starfleet in turn provides to its personnel who go to or are assigned to DS9. I could see everybody getting a certain amount depending on whether it's just a stopover or if they're permanently stationed there.
Its not inconsistent if you take all available points in mind. The greatest invention imo is the Replicator, with that even precious gem were useless. The Federation uses a credit system that assigns a value to everything, you do a job, its worth 100 crd for example. However locally they may still still use some old currency exchange and non replicatables like latinum have purchase power. If i sell an item, the buyer needs to give what i want, oh like..1k Crd, 2 bars gold pressed Lat, etc..
Maybe other species can buy property on earth if they are not part of the federation, and I’m sure they had some kind of currency in the federation but not starfleet?
Star Fleet star ships would make great liners. They can easily be converted into transports. It is possible that retired ships are sold to private entities and converted to ferry passengers between worlds.
You, uh, missed a big example of an Earth Cargo Service vessel. The ECS Kobayashi Maru (ECS-1022) is quite possibly the most infamous example of an Earth Cargo Service vessel, especially given her situation gave rise to the eponymous no-win holographic training scenario in Starfleet Academy. The USS Kobayashi Maru (not the alternate timeline ship, but a different prime timeline one) was a Miranda-class frigate later in the 23rd century.
I find it unlikely the federation is lacking in latinum. There is even an atm that appears to have a federation logo along with Fernegi and Bajoran insignias. Joining Starfleet means they will provide for you food, sleeping quarters, replicator access, if you are located on a place that uses money they can get you gold pressed latinum to use. The only time they show troubles with money is in TNG when they are planets that obviously don’t deal with intergalactic currency. TNG is also hypocritical in saying there’s no money in the future, but at O’Brien and Keiko’s wedding see Worf looking through a wedding registry where things cost different credits. This could potentially be power allotment credits for the replicators, but hey that basically money with extra steps.
Ya, this is something I never liked. Since the Star Trek: Enterprise, Vulcans has been cynical about Earth Government and Humans. They would go as far as espionage. Yet, StarFleet would bend backwards just to accomodate Vulcans. It always felt that many of the writers of this show are self-loating.
@@Nexus9118 I think it's odd as they don't seem to do that for Tellarites or Andorians, other founders of the Feds. I think you might be onto something with the self loathing. TNG (and sometimes TOS) especially through Picard had a feeling as though humanity was supposed to "evolve" and grow past our "savage", backwards ways similar to how took their path towards logic. But at the same time, Vulcans are criticized for their general character traits and consistently shown as arrogant.
@@googleuser7454 That's why I never liked TNG. For a starters, lot of his speeches felt like what "woke" people would say. 2nd, lot of his challenges were easily solved by technology. Except for the borg, Picard didn't have immense threat faced either by Captain Archer or even Captain Janeway.
@@Nexus9118 That's why I like DS9, VOY and TOS better. There's still wokeness and progressiveness but it isn't preachy and the crews/captains in those series got tested on their beliefs in a way TNG didn't until later on. TNG crew and Starfleet were hypocritical,over analyzed everything and they were soft (as shown by Captain Jellico and real threats like the Borg and Dominion).
@@googleuser7454 Yep. Its one thing to have ideals and principles. What was that quote said by a character: That Earth is like heaven, where no one has to make difficult decisions, but at the borders, idealism doesn't work.
The currency issue was partially explained in voyager the crew had matter rations for the replicators but they still use a credit system with could be used to obtain goods and barter. So even a cashless society is not really entirely cashless . They seemed to enjoy doing business with the Ferrangi .
I'm under the impression that the Federation does use currency as a form of trade with other species. However, the citizens live under the umbrella of "basic life protections." Meaning they get free health care, room and board, and free travel for a holiday. Example of this is Captain Sisko's dad where he is an owner of a restaurant and cooks for people on earth. He gets his livelihood taken care of, he gets supplies for the business, and in return is required to operate the restaurant. BUT look at DS9 for example with Quarks Bar etc... Sisko goes into the details with Quark about the nature of his business. Quark provides for starfleet personnel thru holosuites, drink, games, etc... BUT in return gets free security, rent, provisions, etc.... This would explain why the holosuites have "booking times etc..." Ever notice why Quark always has a tablet with him, it is so the personnel that patronize his business don't "overextend" the amount of credits they have. I also think this applies to civilian travel. I think the runabouts on DS9 serve in this role. Small craft designed to transport cargo and people from a nearby system to a station, or to nearby systems. I wouldn't be surprised if older star ships were used for civilian use. Similar to how after WW1 and WW2 the US government had sold off "excess equipment." Many entreprenuers bought old C-47 cargo aircraft and turned them into passenger aircraft for the use of airline services. I wouldn't be surprised if La Sierna was a vessel designed by starfleet, for cargo hauling and transport during the Dominion War, and when that war came to a close that Star Fleet auctioned off or sold off these crafts. Rios could have been given this craft by starfleet when he resigned.
I would imagine personal starships are rather less common for the same reason there are no nuclear-powered Yachts - all legalities aside, the amount of technical know-how and experience to even operate the vessel is enormous. In that sense, the La Sirena fits as Rios has the requisite training to operate the thing without simply blowing himself up. And (initially) lacking a crew, he's still risking that considerably. Edit, and yes, I am aware of the NS Savannah and talk of her being converted to a Yacht at one point. I have seen the ship with my own eyes. Its a museum now.
I know it's fanfiction, but it's interesting to note that the Lost Frontier series suggests that really older ships will eventually stop being as effective as newer ships. In the series, set in the early 25th Century, most of the fleet at the time can't go above Warp 2, at best. Warp 4 at a push. With the odd unaffiliated ship being able to go to Warp 5. The new Enterprise-F in that series is the first ship in about 20 years that can go way past that.
I think I figured how ships get into civilian hands in the Federation. Simply ships originally built for Starfleet's use or the Federation's use are given up in a lottery system. Down a waiting list decided randomly. Sort of like a sports draft. A person picked on the list can look at what is available and make a pick based on what they wish. Only ships not in this system are full Starfleet vessels (those generally just get decommissioned and recycled.)
“Kasidy Yates - Interstellar Freights!” Now there’s a show I’d watch! Penny Johnson Jerald is an awesome actress. (See her also on the Larry Sanders Show.) ❤️ the very 1980’s logo!
Every Star Trek show has Starfleet Officers that at least occasionally exchange currency or goods for services or to pay a debt. Obviously on DS9 the officers used currency in Quark's bar etc. The Starfleet universe is much more complicated and less idyllic than most Trek fans understand.
Ugh, I hate the fact so many people think currency is an unknown idea in Trek, they pay “credits”. Being based on units of energy, they are the nonphysical currency used for transactions in Federation space. They even have an exchange rate with Latinum.
I always worked under thevidea that Starfleet wasn't a completely cashless society, just that all base needs were met. If you were content with a roof over your head and a full belly, ir was just a given, that was provided by virtue of being a Federation citizen. The Federation though being a meritoctacy, if you wanted more than that, you could either work harder, obtaining Credits if you wanted more or build your reputation which would just give you more direct access to the resources you wanted
"The Federation doesn't have money" Yeah, that myth has been busted so many times. It was a dream of Gene to actually achieve that, but nobody could figure it out. At first they tried to gloss it over by calling it 'credits'. But a dollar by any other name is still a dollar. Credits were money, just with a different name. Even in TOS credits often showed up. My most remembered one was during the 'Trouble with Tribbles' episode and the haggling over the price of a tribble, which was to be sold to Uhura but was eventually given as a 'sample' to encourage others to buy. Not acquire, but to buy. So I am sure that the Federation citizens who ended up owning their own ship did so by an exchange of currency of one form or another.
In my head cannon there is money in the federation, if you want anything beyond basic accommodations you need money. Want a big winery with a big house? That’s going to cost you. Ok with a studio apartment with a limited number of republicator options? Free. Something I always noticed is when non star fleet personnel get to use a star fleet Republicator I always got the impression they were impressed with the options available.
According to what I've read, isiXhosa does employ a number of "click" consonants which are almost as hard to pronounce for non-native speakers as they are to remember, in addition to more familiar consonant sounds.
I'm fairly certain that even in the Federation, you will absolutely use currency for the acquisition of things like spaceships, unless you get a government grant for research or art or foreign outreach or something. Federation society is "post-scarcity" for basic needs and recreation, but that doesn't quite extend to things that are as intensive to create and maintain as a starship.
I always figured the fed credit was based on some sort of replicator energy unit. Like 1 credit equals 1 X of replicated substance. And that pooling and saving these credits is how people get ships built
For the money, I think every citizen gets an credit on energy usage, and if you save up or manage to convince a government that you need a private ship, you can get one, but it is usually a cheaper option as to not use up a lot of energy.
it never made sense that federation did"t have a currency system. it makes more sense that money is not something people worry about. that the economy is so well designed anybody willing to work never worries about food,shelter,health care,recreation.
When Harry went back in time to San Francisco, they mentioned credits. I don't think it's a matter of not having money but having more variations and conditions on currency other than being fungible and only decreasing with inflation. Say a farmer trades his apples for some currency to buy the desired oranges, but has some left over. The currency represents the value of the apples and the commensurate value of the oranges but the value of the apple and oranges even if not eaten decreases with time but that of the currency does not other than by inflation. A worker trades his work for currency yet the value of the work is highest when not yet done and is zero once completed yet the value of the currency it is traded for does not reflect this and gladly so, otherwise there would be no point in trading labor for currency. It could be that with digital currency, they were more able to model the perishability of value rather than just allow inflation to reduce monetary value generally. Of course, this impacts the fungibility of money so it isn't clear how this could be done. Another factor is that society in the Federation appears to be socialist where necessities such as food, shelter and medical care are guaranteed. Could it be that some funds can only be traded for food or shelter else expire within a month? Could those benefits only be spent by the recipient? Of course, once traded in a registered trade for a primary residence or basic foods, it becomes as fungible and "permanent" as any other currency or the sellers would not be motivated to trade but such conditions would be easier to enforce with digital currency and we have precedents such as the US food stamps. I think the whole Federation does not have money is more along the lines as the Federation doesn't have anything as primitive as the money of the 20th century as it was a time travel movie that line was featured in.
The Federation most likely has some form Labor Credit Contracts. The UFP sets up some time of standard of Unit of Value, then the value of what you what to buy is added up and the "buyer" agrees to pay back that value by getting something the "seller" wants or trading the contract to someone that does. As 80-95% of anything you want is given to you for free or bought via the local member economy this system would only be used for high luxuries or strategic resources.
i think resources would be free to use, but not to exchange, and perhaps instead of just making a new form of keeping track of value of resources used by an individual, most superabundant things would have a very wide "bandwidth" of how much you could use, and more scarce or energy intensive things would have a smaller bandwidth, and you'd submit a request to a resource management computer. that way a citizen who wanted to acquire a starship could submit requests to a ship, which would take a lot of extra bandwidth, or parts, tools and materials to build one which would be less intensive. this was actually something (somewhat similar, it was mostly just industry) that was suggested to be implemented in the soviet union, to cut down on inequality and bureaucracy, as well as dramatically increase efficiency of distribution... like, by an insane margin.
I've always kind of assumed "the federation doesn't use currency" to be kind of like "starfleet doesn't have warships", I mean sure maybe replicators can give you everything you "need", but if you want real whiskey you're either going to have to make it yourself or get it from somewhere. And no one that goes through the trouble to make it, or even grow the ingredients is just going to give them to you. And there's a reason we don't use a barter economy anymore.
Well, obviously replicators can make any drink; if it can make any type of food! There was no "still" on Enterprise's Ten Forward bar; people just placed orders, and had their drinks replicated! And how many times did we see Picard tell a replicator to make his "Earl Grey tea; hot" drink? Also, the Federation DID have warships! What do you think the Defiant was? It didn't BUILD them as a matter of standard policy... but clearly, it knows how to build ships with weapons! It wouldn't have defeated the Dominion otherwise! Clearly, this video discusses the fact that PARTS of the Federation still used money for things; even if the Federation ITSELF didn't. Remember; each member world didn't surrender ALL of its' sovereignty to the UFP; if a member world wanted to use money, the Federation didn't stop them!
Star travel without Starfleet? "Harcourt Fenton Mudd, space charters to anywhere.* The next Mudd space charter will visit "Planet 4546B." *Anywhere Except: Any destination near Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, or Borg territory. Ryley Robinson Space Charters: "My base IS on 'Planet 4546B"! Roger Wilco Janitorial Services: "Cleaning up the Universe with 'Golden Mop' efficiency."
I have to wonder if a human decided they weren't part of the federation and built there own starship using replicators scaled up and oneward, then leaving earth etc to go their own way how Star fleet would react/behave.
@Jope Lamp I don't think we are on the same page here, a personal vessel doesn't have to be a warship or anything beyond a personal a-b moving ship. If the federation restricts the ownership or travel of non starfleet or merchant people, something is categorically wrong within the federation.
This reminds me of your video on what happens to old Starfleet vessels. I would think that if a vessel becomes too old for Starfleet to use, it could be sold instead of sent to mothballs.
this would explain how they get gold pressed lithium some what (if spell the ferengi currency correctly). dont know with episode it was but starfleet keeps a stratigic reserve of that stuff.
Even in our time and universe cruise ships and ferries are not allowed to have ship guns or torpedoes. Personal arms are allowed for some ship staff, however. So I guess if there were a boarding party on the space cruisers, the private security would do their thing.
I imagine independent ships are usually given via an application process. I.E. You get some sort of license to operate a ship, and then you apply to receive a ship. You would then presumably be responsible for it's upkeep and crew and stock. But, within Federation space, this would not be difficult to do. Hence why it seems mostly only money changes hands when leaving Federation space is involved. Within Federation space, it's not a concern, you ask someone to do a brief inspection and repair job when you land, they do it, and your crew goes and does whatever. Outside of Federation space, though, most places require money for those things. So you charge. As for how that works for a Federation citizen, I imagine Federation citizens probably have some limited line of credit they can use in other areas that aren't Federation hostile (for example, Klingon or Ferengi space). In the background, the space's government would technically be the ones paying, but the Federation would be making it up via a regular equivalent trade, probably of something valuable to both powers like dilithium crystals. This is pretty roughly how moneyless societies interacted with societies with currencies in the real world, so it makes sense that would translate to space.
I have a theory on how the economics could work in UFP when dealing with entitues that use cash. Federation Trade Authority they are the body which does this and has some xash reserves for trade purposes, this would make sense maybe even a bank which helps UFP citizens when they venture elsewhere. this is the only way this could work
The story behind my character in Star Trek online they were able to get hold of the original blueprints of the section 31 Dreadnought and we build it with modern technology
You know how back in TOS Captain Kirk would joke about Scotty or whoever "Earning their pay for the week"? I assume there really is a salary for Starfleet personnel specifically for use on non Federation worlds. They don't need the money in Fed Space or on Fed ships but on a place like DS9 or those outlying Colony worlds that you'd need a currency that could be exchanged for local coin. The hard question is how would a non Starfleet Federation Citizen EVER get his hands on cash? Do they have to work off passage on ships going out of Fed Space for it? Is organ selling still a thing? Is Prostitution?
@@ViccVegaa023 i had a head cannon that the federation provided basic necessities food water shelter and a means to comunicate and you can opt in to a bigger economy for things you dont need
WE NEED star trek more than ever right now. Black America needs to see a future where we dont have to worry about money, housing costs, and wheer we can all just LIVE, and those who WANT to go to mars or space can save up but where everyone else can just exist and live. With Replicator tech and ferrengi style economy and Universal Basic Income with crypto currency and private industrry instead of taxation based, we can make this reality I WILL HELp you create an OFFICIAl star trek documentary channel with professional production quality, extra editors etc, You need to be officialy sanctioned by star fleet
wow, that is actually totally fascinating! I never considered cargo to be Non-Starfleet... since in fan-films often cargo vessels seem to still carry similar uniforms and technology (just like with other fleets, it makes sense that cargo ships are far more slow, since, in their case, efficiency & capacity are a priority over speed) as for how ships and tickets may be acquired... I find it hard to believe that some form of currency does not exist for those outside of the bubble of Starfleet and other similar areas of work, even if the basic things of life will be free, some system of credits will certainly exist for the exchange of individual property... to get on a supply type ship (especially to remote place), even today it is more a case of connections then of paying money... & whilst some personal star-ships (especially shuttles) are likely the perks of a position or job, I am sure that for any civilian there will always be a way in which you quantify the value of such objects as require a significant resource investment... also, my guess is that spaces on supply ships and even passenger liners, will be largely something allocated through an application alongside with any required travel-documents you might need to go between planets (which are probably also Federation controlled via Starfleet)... if you know a pilot you might be able to do it less officially, but (given the nature of relations between worlds) how legal that would be for the average Jack is doubtful... the ownership of a ship it seems considered with someone being considered a citizen of the Universe, otherwise no... also I do wonder if any non-federation alien vessels take on passengers (the Ferengi will probably take passengers if you barter a price, but what of those further afield, how much do they enter federation space, do carriers need to be certified?) certainly the Trek universe seems more diverse then I imagined...
Well, most of these ships didn't have the best or most efficient engines, which cost more to build, and operate. Travis's family-run ship didn't move any faster than Warp 2; so, even as an experimental vessel, his Enterprise was 2 1/2 times faster than the ship his family used for their business. Also, when you're shipping things, you don't always have to get to where you're going in the shortest amount of time; Amazon, UPS, and FedEx illustrate THAT with their different tiers of delivery options! So, it makes sense that would continue into the future!
Actually it would to make sense for an ambassador to do 1st contact if I were a science officer I would probably ask for an ambassador to do 1st contact as long as I get to be there and ask questions
Two questions: are the docks in Earth and Mars' orbits starfleet or civilian? And 2: does starfleet or another organization regulate the design, safety features or other aspects of vessels within the federation? Like the FAA does for aircraft in America.
I just want to point out that the federation as a whole is not cashless. Everytime its brought up, only earth and humanity is mentioned as not having the desire for personal wealth. Picard says to Lily in first contact that humanity doesn't have money, and Nog says to Jake on DS9, " It's not my fault your species doesn't use money" in response to Jake saying he doesnt have any money to buy something. Nog doesnt say The Federation, he specifies Jake's species, Humans. Its likely that all of humans basic needs are met by the government, they'll give you a home and replicators can feed and clothe you, and you likely get a form of universal basic income in the form of credits. There is no need to obtain more credits because all your basic needs are met. But since the federation does need to engage in trade with other species, and not everything can be a simple trade, a currency is required. You may not be able to replicate that new ferengi holonovel because the ferengi dont want to give it to you for nothing, so you convert some of your credits into Latium and buy it from a ferengi trader. If you want more money than your government basic income, you have to earn it, so you get a job. You think the waiters at Siskos Dads restraunt actually wait tables for fun?
I can easily imagine a situation where someone would be a waiter for fun. It's all in the concept of self-improvement. I've done all kinds of jobs as a volunteer.
Citizen: "I want to own my own starsihip.. How can I buy one?" Starfleet: "We're over the concept of money, we don't buy things, how uncivilized" Citizen: "OK, I still want my own starship, if I can't buy it, you'll just give me one? That's so neat." Starfleet: "Well.. no, there's.. no way.. to fulfill your dream, but we have reeducation camps that will relieve of needing things."
Very nice video. Thank you. I don't agree about Intrepid, the Vulcans aboard were members of Star Fleet. There was also very clearly money through TOS and in ST III, Mccoy is expecting to be able to charter a vessel for money. When Kirk says in ST IV they don't have money in the future, I think he's being disingenuous.
I like this! 👍 You give a very detailed video dedicated to what goes on in the background of Star Trek, where we really don't consider or think about. Space cargo vessels? Really? Seriously? 😏 Makes sense! 😌
There are also thriving "extralegal" businesses, such as those run by Cyrano Jones and Harcourt Fenton Mudd. As late as 3189, Deep Space station 236 was dealing with the Orion Syndicate.
Always wished they showed more what normal citizens’ lives were like
Probably an authoritarian nightmare tbh.
@Caratacus I mean you could really easily portray the post scarcity (no such thing, just a change in what is scarce) paradise as a guided cage where the government literally rules everything because it's the only thing that owns any property. It would simultaneously follow the trend of hating on starfleet and would also add an interesting spin to the world building.
@@jchoneandonly Except that there was not much of an indication for that. The only time starfleet was hard to it's Citizens was when they were violating interstellar treaties - such as the cardassian DMZ und the whole Sheliak incident....or being otherwise criminal asses...and the fact that these people could establish significant colonies without anyone noticing or stopping them just proves even more how easy it must be to get a ship and how little the average citizen is being watched.....try doing this sort of shit on current day earth...good luck...and modern Trek is just Garbage. Not on account of too much SJWing or anything, just badly written. Which is an achievement. Voyager was already bad enough...
Startrek the academy years!!!! Let us see this utopia actually work least give us some ideas on how to fix this mess we are in!
Agreed. I also would have liked more stories from the perspective of other factions.
Like I've said before, the Federation doesn't use currency but it doesn't ban it either, nor does it seem to actually ban private enterprise. In DS9 we see off-duty Starfleet officers gambling with Gold Pressed Latinum alongside civilians and travelers. It's possible that civilian ships are purchased either from outside the federation or manufactured by hobby businesses within the Federation.
As long as goods and services are exchanged, a medium of exchange (that is, money) will arise. Sure your replicators may ensure your NEEDS are essentially met (meaning the only need left is replicator repair technicians and manufacturers) but for anything you WANT there will have to be some sort of system to make sure goods and services are valued and exchanged fairly.
i dont think federation is a cashless society per se. citizens get basic education/residence/food/medical. think of it like a promised small studio apartment and 3 meals a day(following a standardized Energy/nutrients intake per day) on reaching adulthood.
they probably adopt a social role evaluation based system.
you want a bigger apartment, eat fancier food or indulge in hobbies do something/anything, scrub conduits which probably has long hours but low "evaluation points"
imagine being a musician but your music only appeals to 1 person..
so your evaluation is probably quite low.
if you join starfleet, you get more perks but that's like a reward for passing the academy.
if you join private sectors, like farms/shipping/etc, your renumeration is on your employer. non--replicated food is worth several times replicated food, picard family wine is one example.
the employer gets paid in latinum/dilithium/fuel/non-replicate-able items, they disburse the value to their employees.
now how does starfleet officers get latinum for personal use? moonlighting or taking temporary jobs while awaiting assignments.
how does starfleet get resources to keep their programs running?
a form of racketeering and offering services that small-medium enterprises cant afford/incapable of carrying out. like terraforming, charting new space, patrolling trade routes and forming trade agreements with other powers(there's probably a decent tax between free enterprises and other races plus miscellaneous fees.)
other way for federation to earn money is to sell ships parts(not the latest/tatical parts) and provide docking/drydock services. economies of scale still applies for production and repair. and those private ships pay latinum... and probably some directly to the staff to get their ships faster service. the supervisor probably distributes the latinum to the staff that do the most efficient work.
its not a bribe... just an urgency fee. as long as federation ships are kept on schedule.
Sisko did threaten Quark on multiple occasions for back rent, power consumption, and repair fees.
I want to say there is a currency used outside of starfleet and that is what they purchased latinum with
I think Picard was pretty clear about that in First Contact, quote:
"The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, MONEY DOESN'T EXIST in the 24th century."
Zero room for interpretation there. The Federation is a RBE ( Resource Based Economy ), currency and money are meaningless in such an economy.
To quote Jacques Fresco: "Money is a nothing thing."
In the mid-90s at a Star Trek Convention I picked up two "Starship Schematics Manuals" that had drawing for multiple different cargo ships, star ships and even bulk fueling tankers for star ships. They were all pretty detailed with all the info about size, weight, crew size etc. Remember one was even an automated bulk carrier with no crew.
@@indetigersscifireview4360 Haha, I was going to say the same!
There are no civilian cruise ships? Everyone's like "go to Risa for vacation" but nobody's like "go on a spa trip through this beautiful nebula"
Yeah I've always wondered if some business operated a ship like the cruise ship from the 5th Element. The Risans are definitely a people who build something like that.
Passenger liners are Canon; one was named Enterprise and was displayed in the TMP Enterprise's crew lounge.
I can't believe there would not be.
Give Quark 5 weeks and a Miranda. He'll have easily converted that thing into a touring luxury cruiser and set up a route visiting many enticing (and expensive) destinations.
@@VestedUTuber I thought those were just galaxy class ships?
Joking but a good use for obsolete galaxy class ships could be as holiday cruises.
The fact that civilian craft are based on older starfleet tech isn't suprising at all. It works exactly like in real life,military develops cutting edge technology and then shares it with civilians (internet,gps went through the same path).Another thing is how you aquire them in no money world,although i presume even as SF officer you get some form of currency (probably virtual Federation Credit or something else,otherwise how all those Feds would be able to gamble at Quark's) or you can loan a ship when you intend to haul cargo and after some time it is yours.
The first part of your statement is correct but I'm not so sure on the second part. Why would anyone accept Federation Credit for GPL it doesn't make sense, even if Federation Credit was a thing I doubt they'd make it some kind of resource you can simply give out as that has a high probability of becoming crime riddled. I personally think it comes more down to Trade, the Ferengi for sure aren't giving away anything for free. Whether you're trading goods or handing out favours to get GPL you're still doing something in exchange for 'foreign currency' I don't think its as simple as a currency exchange.
Boeing, airbus, Cessna and embraer etc make cutting edge aircraft. Luxury yachts are more advanced than military frigates. Civilians have smartphones while the military have radios the size of bricks. What cutting edge technology does the military have other than weapon systems?
@@SGz_Eliminated I dont know, a well working trading system requires some form of currency. Simply trading one good for another becomes messy very fast. Also we do see federation officers with money (gambling at quarks was already mentioned). What i think is that the Federation does have a currency but one that is only used for trading with non Federation worlds. Also Federation Citizens might have something like a baseincome of said currency they receive no matter what proffession they follow, which they can use to trade with non Federation companies. Otherwise how would a Federation citizen be able to visit a non Federation world? He wouldnt be able to pay for a hotel or food or transport or souvenirs etc. Non if a non Federation Member aquires said currency he could use it to buy goods and services from Federation worlds. After all, i doubt that the Federation gives up stuff for free.
@@Daimo83 Well there's 2 things you must understand, first military is made as robust as possible, thus no smartphones as those break if you look at them meanly and are dependent on fixed transmission stations that are easily disabled and second military tends to use what works so if there's no good reason to replace something it won't be replaced. In regards to Frigates frankly I'm not sure that's true for recent designs. Also as mentioned GPS started in the military (and is still better then civilian systems though that's not due to tech but settings), jets were also developed first for the military, also certain fabrics were first developed for the military then adopted by civilian markets. There's plenty of things that were developed for the military first (most of the time it's civilian companies developing things for the military rather then military forces doing the developing themselves) since as a governmental agency they tend to have decent funds and less risk (as they generally know what they want).
On ds9 Starfleet and others would use their fingerprint to buy things so they had some form of currency.
The Federation does have currency it is called the Federation Credit. Going by Encounter at Farpoint and Voyager's first episode people at not carrying physical money as it accounts linked to their identity. Phisical currency was a thing in the 23rd century as that is how Uhura bought a Tribble from Cyrano Jones.
It is United Earth that subscribes to a philosophy of non-acquisition of wealth and self improvement.
Just because Earth does not value money others do not. Ask the Vulcans who require royalty for their intellectual property like a fuel synthesizer. Not to mention that Vulcan Master that fleeced Tuvok and Janeway seeing their Starfleet uniforms. Merchants see Starfleet personnel as suckers whether Human, Vulcan or Ferengi.
What episode featured the Vulcan Master con artist?
I'm a sucker
@@tedeng9428 None, it was mentioned by Janeway but I don't remember in which episode
@@tedeng9428 Mentioned in the Voyager episode The Gift.
"You can't replicate a horse!"
Barclay says,
"Challenge accepted, hold my syntheholic beverage..."
*just don't touch my twisty straw*
Input holodeck data into transporter. 🎤
You can clone a horse.
@@리주민 Good news for Moriarity...
Replicating a horse would take far too much storage space. It would be far more practical to duplicate a horse.
I always figured that the Federations ideal of improving oneself would lead to many entrepreneurial individuals. I can see people getting cargo ships to help contribute to the massive economy of the Federation. As far as the whole "why not replicate it" argument. We see constantly in Star Trek of people been able tell the difference between "real" and replicated food. I always thought real food would taste better, Kinda like the difference between real and diet soda. This could create high demand for "real" food and other products. Hence the need for an expansive mercantile fleet and countless entrepreneurs to supply demand.
I always thought a weird line from DS9 " in college you made it home for dinner every night, and burned through all your teleporter rations(or something like that) and i was like " i thought you guys had like unlimited power with that sort of stuff, surprised that you would limit use by a cadet
Eric Christmas Maybe it was more an allocation and not a power issue.
@@danielyeshe Why allocate a limited amount of uses if there's no lack of power and resources to build transport pads?
I think that line was said by Sisko to Jake when Jake got accepted into some writing program, possibly in the episode when they were testing an old Bajoran sail ship design
My guess would be that they institute rationing for cadets, not out of necessity, but as a means to instill discipline in them for situations where they might find themselves stranded, or on away missions, or any number of scenarios where replicators aren't available and resources need to be conserved.
Maybe it's not scarcity of power but a way to limit overuse. Not because the power there isn't abundant but because if transporters are completely free for use then there would never be downtime for transporter operators. And potentially wear and tear on the machinery itself.
No such thing as unlimited power . The Dominion war had everyone's basic power allotment reduced as they were replicating material for the war effort . Antimatter, and Pergium was at a premium. Remember Ezri Dax family was Pergium minors on an independent world . Rich because of mining an energy source.
Technically, Starfleet has first contact protocols as well as specialized diplomats and anthropologists whose entire job it is to get with the whole "Greetings, from the people of Earth".
I'm pretty sure that it was written into the contract that should the Hansens discover potential allies, Starfleet would be handling the talks.
And pretty soon, STO's next event will allow us to get our own cargo ship. No more super advanced warships! It's time to haul cargo! *puts on trucker hat*
Elite Dangerous *intensifies*
Ultimate space barbie grinder
you can get cargo ships in STO in fact you could acquire the cardassian cargo ship and a couple of others they had limited weapon slots were not very agile and tended to be more for people doing the none space combat stuf like crafting and sending crew on missions and one even had bank and market place accsess
'Course, it only scales up to Tier 4, so once you reach Captain you'll probably want to upgrade - so if you're into the roleplay aspect, that works out perfectly. (After all, what justification is there for Starfleet assigning command of a front-line vessel to some jumped-up cadet with a field commission? Once you've proved yourself as a captain, then of course you can expect a better command.)
@@naturelass I know, but the next Event is going to allow us to get a Kobiyashi Maru to actually fly (or the KDF version for non-Feds). Sppaaaaaaace truckin'!
*YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A RUNABOUT*
*YOU WOULDN'T REPLICATE A HORSE*
I literally thought of that after I wrote that and am going to use it at some point.
@@CertifiablyIngame *to quote Lt. Frank Drebin from Police Squad: "You take a chance getting up in the morning, crossing the street or sticking your face in a fan"*
*not exactly sure what the Starfleet equivalent of this might be but i'm sure there is one*
@@CertifiablyIngame I only learnt this today, but apparently the music they used in that ad? _They pirated it!_ 😂 And feel free to pirate as much of my comment's version of that as you wish 🖖❤️
What's funny is that you can 3d print cars now.
@@RRW359 I misread that as "ears" for a moment, though I'm sure that would also be very possible.
My take on Starfleet / Currency. Within starfleet you don't need it, since anything everything can be provided (paradise). But as you provide services within Starfleet you accumulate "credits" that you can withdraw to use/exchange with other alien races that do use currency. This allows those that wish to expand beyond Starfleet borders to do so with little monetary issue, those that just wish to serve can do so with out the hastle of managing income/currency. (this is all head cannon)
This is largely what it is like to serve in the military today. The Government pays for everything you need. Your works in service earn money that you can use to buy that which you want.
While that does sound logical, we have already seen on multiple occasions in-game that while individual captains probably could work out some system of trade if allowed to kick the question up the chain of command, there isn't really a Federation ATM where you can cash in your credits for cash.
This sounds like an oversight as it would make perfect sense for a Starfleet captain to have some sort of cash fund for whatever needs to be bought from outside to help with missions, but it might simply be an oversight as the concept of money has become so alien to the Federation that they might not even understand the need.
*head canon perhaps but very logical at the same time*
memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Federation_credit
you mean these?
Federation civilians had currency and ships too, right?
We'd like to avoid any "Federation" entanglement 😋
Brother Sgt. Grau Wolff Well, that’s the trick. And it’ll cost you extra.
*entanglement
@@compmanio36, thanks
This one sentence combines my 2 life-long loves. I sigh.
You folks in some kinda legal trouble?
Captain Kathryn Janeway: "Tuvok's meditation lamp. I was with him when he got it six years ago, from a Vulcan master. Who doubled the price when he saw our Starfleet insignias."
From (VOY: "The Gift")
Today's money is not backed by a unit of energy.
Thank you so much for caring as much as you do for this scifi universe that we all need to escape to from time to time.
All the best.
lol
"Lost to a giant space bacteria(bacterium?)"
Y'know, as you do. I mean, who hasn't run into a giant single-celled organism in space before?
It was an Amoeba. A protozoan.
He said bacterium
The Transport of seed and stock for the establishment of new colonies, particularly on worlds with class M and L environments but do not have edible flora or fauna, this is often the case on desert planets. This is done as part of "terraforming" the planet to develop an ecology that can sustain the anticipated lifeforms/races expected for that colony.
There is indications that Star Fleet officers and crew are remunerated in some manner. Ryker collecting his winnings and Dax too, show that they had resources outside of what’s seen. Also one of the premises of early Star Trek was a civilization free of want where ones personal interests are pursued. It’s not hard to imagine in such a society everyone is relatively wealthy and can afford something as expensive as a starship.
Everyone comes to this channel to watch videos that cover topics that other channels and sites never consider. Good job on keeping it fresh.
9:45 There are several reasons civilian vessels underperform:
- Efficiency. Especially in fuel, Military design tend to be gas guzzlers. Just compare the consumption of your average Main Battle tank with a car. Or a fighter jet with a jetliner. I fully asume that still applies to the 24st century.
- Reliability. The miltiary can afford to experiment. If a part only survives 1 day at warp, that is something star fleet can deal with. They got the resoruces, logistics and spare parts. A civil captain has to get as much lifetime out of each component as possible.
- Security. You really do not want your latest and greatest stuff to fall into the hands of another power, even a supposed ally like the klingons. Deploying it to the civil sector right away? A surefire way to get this design leaked!
And do not think any of the other powers do it differently. It equally applies to klingons. We even had Gul Dukat in command of a cardassian freighter once.
10:30 They do not just throw Starships at every claim. The stuff has to undego some serious peer review and laboratory testing. Think EM-Drive.
Yep. I would have loved to see some more smaller civilian (or non military) ships, especially in DS9 which was supposed to be a major space port.
ya for a space port it was a bit empty. the place should have been seeing ships coming and going all the time. it would have been a good way to have some none Starfleet centered story lines. all we ended up getting was some stories about the firangi at not much more.
@@tommyfred6180 A lot of the time someone was shooting at DS9, or some other thing was going on that probably would've endangered civilian traffic. In the series, it seemed the civilian "life" was there to add flavor and backstory to the episodes, but seems like the writers thought writing about "Bob the Transport Captain who makes the run from Bajor to DS9 with passengers, moba fruit and bootleg kanar" would probably get a bit boring.
That is something i missed in all the shows more about the civilian life in the star trek universe. Where are the starliners,cargo,science ships but also where are the fleets of the member world inside the fedaration in 24 century
No smugglers or space pirates either. Lame.
I personally don’t think every Star Trek show “”needs”” to be on a starfleet vessel or station (technology DS9 wasn’t a starfleet station but that’s splitting hairs) I mean Picard wasn’t really a starfleet show even so we have already started down that road for good or ill, I think that it would need to be handled really well and need a dam good cast as it would be such a departure from what fans consider the norm also it would need a ship that really grabs people but it can’t be the standard saucer shape we get from Federation ships as they are military ships and this would be a more civilian class ship.
permeus I think that would be interesting, but I personally like the Starfleet ships personally, but I can see how a new generation of Star Trek could be non-starflett
I wouldn’t mind a mini-series set outside of Starfleet (personally wishing for either a Klingon miniseries or maybe a miniseries over the Cardasian border wars with a young Miles O’Brian)
A show in the Trek Universe with a civilian ship (even if built by a Starfleet shipyard) and a civilian crew would be nice. Give us a view of the civilian side of the Federation. DS9 may have been a Bajorin station, but it was administrated by Starfleet which has its own complications Sisco had to manage, especially with Bajor not being a member world. But so far we have only gotten glimpses for true civilian-run operations. The tricky part would be defining the type of ship and crew and what they do.
@@Krahazik Agreed, it'd be very interesting and explain so much about the universe that is just hand waved away.
Check out Aurora Trek, pretty good.
The Federation probably has some form of allowance system for things that just couldn't be replicated at home.
How those Riker have latinum to go gambling at Quark's. Because I don't see Quark allowing buy ins with smiles and hugs.
The fact the Sisko mentioned almost using up his transporter allowance to go home from the academy for dinner.
My headcanon about the no-money Federation thing is that they don't actually have infinite resources, they just have such vast resources that they don't bother accounting for what amounts to petty cash. The real-world equivalent to this is a tropical resort such as Hedonism, where you pay some usuriously large amount of money up-front just to get into the place for a certain period of time, and then as long as that duration isn't up yet, they'll give you all the drinks and food and suntan lotion and condoms you want, and not bother counting up exactly how much you're costing them, under the assumption that the average person isn't going to use up supplies worth more than they have already paid. The difference being that for the Federation, you can be born in the "resort", and instead of paying up front, you're just assumed to be incapable of costing them more than they can afford, given the amount of resources they can generate with an antimatter reactor hooked up to a replicator. Only when you start getting into extreme situations, like ownership of a whole starship, does any sort of economic situation begin to arise, at which point it's less about monetary resources and more about favor-trading or expanding the sum total of Federation knowledge or something like that.
Like all you can eat buffets and those sweet and makeup stores in my country. You basically pay a stupid amount of money for such a frivolous thing and once in you can have all the candy you want for the day or however long you are there or get as much makeovers and get as much makeup to go hairstyles and parlor services included.
The problem I have with Star Trek cargo crafts have been that ever since the drawings for TOS, the cargo ships were basically an engine that tows a string of cargo containers much as we see with modern trains. However, the concept of warp drive requires establishing a warp bubble around the entire ship and presumably such bubbles originate around the warp nacelles so just having a small ship with one nacelle towing a string of containers simply shouldn't work. Really, the cargo ships should be multiple units with warp cores and warp nacelles that can be interspersed along the cargo containers, perhaps even a long cage within which the cargo containers could be secured or a backbone with multiple nacelles or perhaps being a long nacelle in itself to which the cargo containers are attached.
No, the basis of warp travel says that the warp bubble has to enclose the ENTIRE ship; not just around the engines. If you're right, then a ship would explode when it activated its' warp drive.... because the engines and nacelles would go to warp.... but the rest of the ship wouldn't. That doesn't make any sense. Warp engines work by creating highly tuned and deployed warp bubbles around the entire ship; that's why most ships look generally the same. The high-end math to calculate those fields doesn't even exist (yet); that's how HARD it is to do on a consistent basis (and why it took Earth a long time to build ships that could match a Vulcan or Andorian ship's max speed, in the time of Archer). Just like all aircraft carriers basically look the same - design must follow function - when we invent FTL drives, the ships (and the math needed to build and run them) will be invented at about the same time. You can't design an FTL drive without the engineering and math capability to go along with it.... which is one reason why I think it will take humanity another 50-100 years to get to that point.
@Jope Lamp It isn't a wave of anything that needs extending but the pocket of space formed by the warp nacelles as it is this pocket of space that can travel faster than light hence the long train of cargo containers originally envisioned in the drawings for TOS simply doesn't make sense. Interspersing drive units with nacelles periodically within that chain of cargo containers would make sense not the one disc with one nacelle in the front. Now if the nacelle itself was a long tube down the line of cargo containers perhaps as a spine to which the containers are attached then that would make sense but that's not what Matt Jefferies drew though the cargo freighters in Star Trek Enterprise looked a little like that except the spine looked more like an access corridor then a nacelle.
Star Trek is so inconsistent on money within the Federation. Star Trek Generations Kirk said he sold his house even though in Star Trek 4 the voyage home Kirk said they had no money.
Also even if earth and the Federation didn't use money within the Federation for goods and services. The Federation would still need to have some form of currency to handle trade and commerce with non Federation worlds and groups. Unless they just barter for stuff.
Ps
Also Quark has dozens of Star fleet officers running tabs at his bar. Sure charge it to Star fleet and the Federation but I don't see Quark accepting stem bolts everyday as payment.
As Kirk and selling his house goes, just because he "sold" his house it doesn't necessarily mean that he got paid for it. It's entirely possible that saying he "sold his house" is a hold over phrase from the days when things were bought and sold with money, sort of like how we still say things like, we have X on film/tape when there is no film or tape involved anymore, only digital video. So, in this case, Kirk could have simply meant transferring ownership but they still call it selling their house.
As far as currency for use with non-Federation planets goes, the easiest solution to this (by the TNG timerame at least) would be to simply replicate all of the currency they need. Of course, this is technically counterfeiting but I could at least see it used on a small scale for undercover first encounter missions. On a larger scale once official first contact has been made, it would be easy enough for the Federation to replicate minerals, ores, and some "manufactured" goods for trade with non-Federation members.
Lastly, in regards to Quarks, the Federation probably acquires a decent amount of gold pressed latinum from various sources which Starfleet in turn provides to its personnel who go to or are assigned to DS9. I could see everybody getting a certain amount depending on whether it's just a stopover or if they're permanently stationed there.
Its not inconsistent if you take all available points in mind.
The greatest invention imo is the Replicator, with that even precious gem were useless.
The Federation uses a credit system that assigns a value to everything, you do a job, its worth 100 crd for example. However locally they may still still use some old currency exchange and non replicatables like latinum have purchase power.
If i sell an item, the buyer needs to give what i want, oh like..1k Crd, 2 bars gold pressed Lat, etc..
Quark would take anything he thought he could make a profit on.
Currency is just a way of making barter easier
Maybe other species can buy property on earth if they are not part of the federation, and I’m sure they had some kind of currency in the federation but not starfleet?
Thanks for the video. Always appreciated the effort you put into the videos.
Star Fleet star ships would make great liners. They can easily be converted into transports. It is possible that retired ships are sold to private entities and converted to ferry passengers between worlds.
I love how comprehensive and detailed your videos are!
You, uh, missed a big example of an Earth Cargo Service vessel.
The ECS Kobayashi Maru (ECS-1022) is quite possibly the most infamous example of an Earth Cargo Service vessel, especially given her situation gave rise to the eponymous no-win holographic training scenario in Starfleet Academy.
The USS Kobayashi Maru (not the alternate timeline ship, but a different prime timeline one) was a Miranda-class frigate later in the 23rd century.
I find it unlikely the federation is lacking in latinum. There is even an atm that appears to have a federation logo along with Fernegi and Bajoran insignias. Joining Starfleet means they will provide for you food, sleeping quarters, replicator access, if you are located on a place that uses money they can get you gold pressed latinum to use. The only time they show troubles with money is in TNG when they are planets that obviously don’t deal with intergalactic currency.
TNG is also hypocritical in saying there’s no money in the future, but at O’Brien and Keiko’s wedding see Worf looking through a wedding registry where things cost different credits. This could potentially be power allotment credits for the replicators, but hey that basically money with extra steps.
Let's see the Vulcans give Starfleet a Vulcan ship to completely crew.
....yeah.
Ya, this is something I never liked. Since the Star Trek: Enterprise, Vulcans has been cynical about Earth Government and Humans. They would go as far as espionage. Yet, StarFleet would bend backwards just to accomodate Vulcans. It always felt that many of the writers of this show are self-loating.
@@Nexus9118 I think it's odd as they don't seem to do that for Tellarites or Andorians, other founders of the Feds. I think you might be onto something with the self loathing. TNG (and sometimes TOS) especially through Picard had a feeling as though humanity was supposed to "evolve" and grow past our "savage", backwards ways similar to how took their path towards logic. But at the same time, Vulcans are criticized for their general character traits and consistently shown as arrogant.
@@googleuser7454 That's why I never liked TNG. For a starters, lot of his speeches felt like what "woke" people would say. 2nd, lot of his challenges were easily solved by technology. Except for the borg, Picard didn't have immense threat faced either by Captain Archer or even Captain Janeway.
@@Nexus9118 That's why I like DS9, VOY and TOS better. There's still wokeness and progressiveness but it isn't preachy and the crews/captains in those series got tested on their beliefs in a way TNG didn't until later on. TNG crew and Starfleet were hypocritical,over analyzed everything and they were soft (as shown by Captain Jellico and real threats like the Borg and Dominion).
@@googleuser7454 Yep. Its one thing to have ideals and principles. What was that quote said by a character: That Earth is like heaven, where no one has to make difficult decisions, but at the borders, idealism doesn't work.
The currency issue was partially explained in voyager the crew had matter rations for the replicators but they still use a credit system with could be used to obtain goods and barter. So even a cashless society is not really entirely cashless . They seemed to enjoy doing business with the Ferrangi .
Just like a Volvo station wagon you don't want to be seen in the thing but you keep dumping oil in it and it just won't die.
I'm under the impression that the Federation does use currency as a form of trade with other species. However, the citizens live under the umbrella of "basic life protections." Meaning they get free health care, room and board, and free travel for a holiday. Example of this is Captain Sisko's dad where he is an owner of a restaurant and cooks for people on earth. He gets his livelihood taken care of, he gets supplies for the business, and in return is required to operate the restaurant. BUT look at DS9 for example with Quarks Bar etc... Sisko goes into the details with Quark about the nature of his business. Quark provides for starfleet personnel thru holosuites, drink, games, etc... BUT in return gets free security, rent, provisions, etc.... This would explain why the holosuites have "booking times etc..." Ever notice why Quark always has a tablet with him, it is so the personnel that patronize his business don't "overextend" the amount of credits they have.
I also think this applies to civilian travel. I think the runabouts on DS9 serve in this role. Small craft designed to transport cargo and people from a nearby system to a station, or to nearby systems. I wouldn't be surprised if older star ships were used for civilian use. Similar to how after WW1 and WW2 the US government had sold off "excess equipment." Many entreprenuers bought old C-47 cargo aircraft and turned them into passenger aircraft for the use of airline services. I wouldn't be surprised if La Sierna was a vessel designed by starfleet, for cargo hauling and transport during the Dominion War, and when that war came to a close that Star Fleet auctioned off or sold off these crafts. Rios could have been given this craft by starfleet when he resigned.
Love that the Santa Maria has the same registry number as the Bluesmobile license plate.
I would imagine personal starships are rather less common for the same reason there are no nuclear-powered Yachts - all legalities aside, the amount of technical know-how and experience to even operate the vessel is enormous. In that sense, the La Sirena fits as Rios has the requisite training to operate the thing without simply blowing himself up. And (initially) lacking a crew, he's still risking that considerably.
Edit, and yes, I am aware of the NS Savannah and talk of her being converted to a Yacht at one point. I have seen the ship with my own eyes. Its a museum now.
I know it's fanfiction, but it's interesting to note that the Lost Frontier series suggests that really older ships will eventually stop being as effective as newer ships. In the series, set in the early 25th Century, most of the fleet at the time can't go above Warp 2, at best. Warp 4 at a push. With the odd unaffiliated ship being able to go to Warp 5. The new Enterprise-F in that series is the first ship in about 20 years that can go way past that.
I think I figured how ships get into civilian hands in the Federation.
Simply ships originally built for Starfleet's use or the Federation's use are given up in a lottery system. Down a waiting list decided randomly. Sort of like a sports draft. A person picked on the list can look at what is available and make a pick based on what they wish. Only ships not in this system are full Starfleet vessels (those generally just get decommissioned and recycled.)
“Kasidy Yates - Interstellar Freights!” Now there’s a show I’d watch!
Penny Johnson Jerald is an awesome actress. (See her also on the Larry Sanders Show.)
❤️ the very 1980’s logo!
Love the BDR-529 nod... obviously a Blues Brothers fan on the writing staff.
Every Star Trek show has Starfleet Officers that at least occasionally exchange currency or goods for services or to pay a debt. Obviously on DS9 the officers used currency in Quark's bar etc. The Starfleet universe is much more complicated and less idyllic than most Trek fans understand.
Ugh, I hate the fact so many people think currency is an unknown idea in Trek, they pay “credits”. Being based on units of energy, they are the nonphysical currency used for transactions in Federation space. They even have an exchange rate with Latinum.
I always worked under thevidea that Starfleet wasn't a completely cashless society, just that all base needs were met. If you were content with a roof over your head and a full belly, ir was just a given, that was provided by virtue of being a Federation citizen. The Federation though being a meritoctacy, if you wanted more than that, you could either work harder, obtaining Credits if you wanted more or build your reputation which would just give you more direct access to the resources you wanted
"The Federation doesn't have money" Yeah, that myth has been busted so many times. It was a dream of Gene to actually achieve that, but nobody could figure it out. At first they tried to gloss it over by calling it 'credits'. But a dollar by any other name is still a dollar. Credits were money, just with a different name. Even in TOS credits often showed up. My most remembered one was during the 'Trouble with Tribbles' episode and the haggling over the price of a tribble, which was to be sold to Uhura but was eventually given as a 'sample' to encourage others to buy. Not acquire, but to buy. So I am sure that the Federation citizens who ended up owning their own ship did so by an exchange of currency of one form or another.
"And you all...you're...Star Trekers...Astronauting around the galaxy?"
- Zefram Cochrane, paraphrased.
In my head cannon there is money in the federation, if you want anything beyond basic accommodations you need money. Want a big winery with a big house? That’s going to cost you. Ok with a studio apartment with a limited number of republicator options? Free.
Something I always noticed is when non star fleet personnel get to use a star fleet Republicator I always got the impression they were impressed with the options available.
We see Dr. Crusher buy bolts of fabric in one episode but doesn't mention how it's paid for. She just tells the vendor to send it to the ship.
I very much enjoyed this. Hearing about the civilian side of ST, as well as the "non-a-military" SF.
I didn't know Cassidy's vessel was named SS Xhosa. I do know how hard that word is to say for non-natives. This attempt was pretty unique 😉
According to what I've read, isiXhosa does employ a number of "click" consonants which are almost as hard to pronounce for non-native speakers as they are to remember, in addition to more familiar consonant sounds.
I'm fairly certain that even in the Federation, you will absolutely use currency for the acquisition of things like spaceships, unless you get a government grant for research or art or foreign outreach or something. Federation society is "post-scarcity" for basic needs and recreation, but that doesn't quite extend to things that are as intensive to create and maintain as a starship.
A small solar based space ship would be possible for anybody who puts their mind to it.
I always figured the fed credit was based on some sort of replicator energy unit. Like 1 credit equals 1 X of replicated substance. And that pooling and saving these credits is how people get ships built
For the money, I think every citizen gets an credit on energy usage, and if you save up or manage to convince a government that you need a private ship, you can get one, but it is usually a cheaper option as to not use up a lot of energy.
Good one! Very different and I liked this video a lot.
it never made sense that federation did"t have a currency system. it makes more sense that money is not something people worry about. that the economy is so well designed anybody willing to work never worries about food,shelter,health care,recreation.
You forgot about knocking on a borg cube and asking for a transwarp ride
When Harry went back in time to San Francisco, they mentioned credits. I don't think it's a matter of not having money but having more variations and conditions on currency other than being fungible and only decreasing with inflation. Say a farmer trades his apples for some currency to buy the desired oranges, but has some left over. The currency represents the value of the apples and the commensurate value of the oranges but the value of the apple and oranges even if not eaten decreases with time but that of the currency does not other than by inflation. A worker trades his work for currency yet the value of the work is highest when not yet done and is zero once completed yet the value of the currency it is traded for does not reflect this and gladly so, otherwise there would be no point in trading labor for currency. It could be that with digital currency, they were more able to model the perishability of value rather than just allow inflation to reduce monetary value generally. Of course, this impacts the fungibility of money so it isn't clear how this could be done. Another factor is that society in the Federation appears to be socialist where necessities such as food, shelter and medical care are guaranteed. Could it be that some funds can only be traded for food or shelter else expire within a month? Could those benefits only be spent by the recipient? Of course, once traded in a registered trade for a primary residence or basic foods, it becomes as fungible and "permanent" as any other currency or the sellers would not be motivated to trade but such conditions would be easier to enforce with digital currency and we have precedents such as the US food stamps. I think the whole Federation does not have money is more along the lines as the Federation doesn't have anything as primitive as the money of the 20th century as it was a time travel movie that line was featured in.
I always thought that in the future, there is no more physical money, but book money still exists.
The Federation most likely has some form Labor Credit Contracts. The UFP sets up some time of standard of Unit of Value, then the value of what you what to buy is added up and the "buyer" agrees to pay back that value by getting something the "seller" wants or trading the contract to someone that does. As 80-95% of anything you want is given to you for free or bought via the local member economy this system would only be used for high luxuries or strategic resources.
Those units may only be useful when out on star fleet operations. On earth they may not be needed.
Samuel Hayden Voice: "You can't just replicate a horse!"
i think resources would be free to use, but not to exchange, and perhaps instead of just making a new form of keeping track of value of resources used by an individual, most superabundant things would have a very wide "bandwidth" of how much you could use, and more scarce or energy intensive things would have a smaller bandwidth, and you'd submit a request to a resource management computer. that way a citizen who wanted to acquire a starship could submit requests to a ship, which would take a lot of extra bandwidth, or parts, tools and materials to build one which would be less intensive. this was actually something (somewhat similar, it was mostly just industry) that was suggested to be implemented in the soviet union, to cut down on inequality and bureaucracy, as well as dramatically increase efficiency of distribution... like, by an insane margin.
I've always kind of assumed "the federation doesn't use currency" to be kind of like "starfleet doesn't have warships", I mean sure maybe replicators can give you everything you "need", but if you want real whiskey you're either going to have to make it yourself or get it from somewhere. And no one that goes through the trouble to make it, or even grow the ingredients is just going to give them to you. And there's a reason we don't use a barter economy anymore.
Well, obviously replicators can make any drink; if it can make any type of food! There was no "still" on Enterprise's Ten Forward bar; people just placed orders, and had their drinks replicated! And how many times did we see Picard tell a replicator to make his "Earl Grey tea; hot" drink?
Also, the Federation DID have warships! What do you think the Defiant was? It didn't BUILD them as a matter of standard policy... but clearly, it knows how to build ships with weapons! It wouldn't have defeated the Dominion otherwise! Clearly, this video discusses the fact that PARTS of the Federation still used money for things; even if the Federation ITSELF didn't. Remember; each member world didn't surrender ALL of its' sovereignty to the UFP; if a member world wanted to use money, the Federation didn't stop them!
Starfleet is a military arm, not a bus service.
Star travel without Starfleet? "Harcourt Fenton Mudd, space charters to anywhere.* The next Mudd space charter will visit "Planet 4546B."
*Anywhere Except: Any destination near Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, or Borg territory.
Ryley Robinson Space Charters: "My base IS on 'Planet 4546B"!
Roger Wilco Janitorial Services: "Cleaning up the Universe with 'Golden Mop' efficiency."
I have to wonder if a human decided they weren't part of the federation and built there own starship using replicators scaled up and oneward, then leaving earth etc to go their own way how Star fleet would react/behave.
@Jope Lamp I don't think we are on the same page here, a personal vessel doesn't have to be a warship or anything beyond a personal a-b moving ship. If the federation restricts the ownership or travel of non starfleet or merchant people, something is categorically wrong within the federation.
like sims such as Euro Truck or American Trucker.... now get ready to sim SPACE TRUCKER!
I'd play that.
Elite Dangerous is the game for you then. It is not set in ST universe but you can be a "space trucker" there.
This reminds me of your video on what happens to old Starfleet vessels. I would think that if a vessel becomes too old for Starfleet to use, it could be sold instead of sent to mothballs.
this would explain how they get gold pressed lithium some what (if spell the ferengi currency correctly).
dont know with episode it was but starfleet keeps a stratigic reserve of that stuff.
@@user-do1kg1py1d latinum
@6:50 - It always seems like Starfleet replaced Earth's military, but they never go into detail about it.
Funny, I thought star travel without Star Fleet meant an Iconian travel system.
Like always sir, great video and I look forward to the next one. 👍
Even in our time and universe cruise ships and ferries are not allowed to have ship guns or torpedoes. Personal arms are allowed for some ship staff, however. So I guess if there were a boarding party on the space cruisers, the private security would do their thing.
I imagine independent ships are usually given via an application process. I.E. You get some sort of license to operate a ship, and then you apply to receive a ship. You would then presumably be responsible for it's upkeep and crew and stock. But, within Federation space, this would not be difficult to do. Hence why it seems mostly only money changes hands when leaving Federation space is involved. Within Federation space, it's not a concern, you ask someone to do a brief inspection and repair job when you land, they do it, and your crew goes and does whatever. Outside of Federation space, though, most places require money for those things. So you charge.
As for how that works for a Federation citizen, I imagine Federation citizens probably have some limited line of credit they can use in other areas that aren't Federation hostile (for example, Klingon or Ferengi space). In the background, the space's government would technically be the ones paying, but the Federation would be making it up via a regular equivalent trade, probably of something valuable to both powers like dilithium crystals. This is pretty roughly how moneyless societies interacted with societies with currencies in the real world, so it makes sense that would translate to space.
I have a theory on how the economics could work in UFP when dealing with entitues that use cash. Federation Trade Authority they are the body which does this and has some xash reserves for trade purposes, this would make sense maybe even a bank which helps UFP citizens when they venture elsewhere. this is the only way this could work
The story behind my character in Star Trek online they were able to get hold of the original blueprints of the section 31 Dreadnought and we build it with modern technology
I think this could make a quality new series, maybe give some more depth over all to the franchise? What’s everyone else thoughts?
I'd really like to know where Starfleet personnel get the latinum they used on DS9. What services were free, and what had to be paid for?
You know how back in TOS Captain Kirk would joke about Scotty or whoever "Earning their pay for the week"? I assume there really is a salary for Starfleet personnel specifically for use on non Federation worlds.
They don't need the money in Fed Space or on Fed ships but on a place like DS9 or those outlying Colony worlds that you'd need a currency that could be exchanged for local coin.
The hard question is how would a non Starfleet Federation Citizen EVER get his hands on cash? Do they have to work off passage on ships going out of Fed Space for it? Is organ selling still a thing? Is Prostitution?
Maybe the Federation has a universal basic income for all of its citizens, just so they have spending cash if needed.
@@ViccVegaa023 i had a head cannon that the federation provided basic necessities food water shelter and a means to comunicate and you can opt in to a bigger economy for things you dont need
@@ViccVegaa023 Perhaps Quark answered that when he time traveled to 1947. "Gold is good..."
Didn't Riker once say that humanity no longer enslaves animals for food purposes. The notable exception being those space irish/amish folk.
WE NEED star trek more than ever right now. Black America needs to see a future where we dont have to worry about money, housing costs, and wheer we can all just LIVE, and those who WANT to go to mars or space can save up but where everyone else can just exist and live. With Replicator tech and ferrengi style economy and Universal Basic Income with crypto currency and private industrry instead of taxation based, we can make this reality
I WILL HELp you create an OFFICIAl star trek documentary channel with professional production quality, extra editors etc, You need to be officialy sanctioned by star fleet
I was wondering about this subject for a while. It is interesting to think about.
Considering how moronic the Hansons were would you want them in charge of a first contact situation.
i want a deeper look into that ship murdering space bacteria
They don't have currency but they do have economics and a Star ship is a big investment.
Upvote for BDR-529...that's the license plate for the Blues Mobile!
wow, that is actually totally fascinating!
I never considered cargo to be Non-Starfleet... since in fan-films often cargo vessels seem to still carry similar uniforms and technology (just like with other fleets, it makes sense that cargo ships are far more slow, since, in their case, efficiency & capacity are a priority over speed)
as for how ships and tickets may be acquired...
I find it hard to believe that some form of currency does not exist for those outside of the bubble of Starfleet and other similar areas of work, even if the basic things of life will be free, some system of credits will certainly exist for the exchange of individual property... to get on a supply type ship (especially to remote place), even today it is more a case of connections then of paying money... & whilst some personal star-ships (especially shuttles) are likely the perks of a position or job, I am sure that for any civilian there will always be a way in which you quantify the value of such objects as require a significant resource investment...
also, my guess is that spaces on supply ships and even passenger liners, will be largely something allocated through an application alongside with any required travel-documents you might need to go between planets (which are probably also Federation controlled via Starfleet)... if you know a pilot you might be able to do it less officially, but (given the nature of relations between worlds) how legal that would be for the average Jack is doubtful... the ownership of a ship it seems considered with someone being considered a citizen of the Universe, otherwise no...
also I do wonder if any non-federation alien vessels take on passengers (the Ferengi will probably take passengers if you barter a price, but what of those further afield, how much do they enter federation space, do carriers need to be certified?)
certainly the Trek universe seems more diverse then I imagined...
What I never got was the long ass hauls. Travis said a run took several grade levels...
Well, most of these ships didn't have the best or most efficient engines, which cost more to build, and operate. Travis's family-run ship didn't move any faster than Warp 2; so, even as an experimental vessel, his Enterprise was 2 1/2 times faster than the ship his family used for their business. Also, when you're shipping things, you don't always have to get to where you're going in the shortest amount of time; Amazon, UPS, and FedEx illustrate THAT with their different tiers of delivery options! So, it makes sense that would continue into the future!
Actually it would to make sense for an ambassador to do 1st contact if I were a science officer I would probably ask for an ambassador to do 1st contact as long as I get to be there and ask questions
"Pictured: Starfleet-Daystrom Cooperation" LMAO I'm dying....
Two questions: are the docks in Earth and Mars' orbits starfleet or civilian?
And 2: does starfleet or another organization regulate the design, safety features or other aspects of vessels within the federation? Like the FAA does for aircraft in America.
4:29 - It's really jarring to hear that Egoraptor has a starship
I just want to point out that the federation as a whole is not cashless.
Everytime its brought up, only earth and humanity is mentioned as not having the desire for personal wealth.
Picard says to Lily in first contact that humanity doesn't have money, and Nog says to Jake on DS9, " It's not my fault your species doesn't use money" in response to Jake saying he doesnt have any money to buy something.
Nog doesnt say The Federation, he specifies Jake's species, Humans.
Its likely that all of humans basic needs are met by the government, they'll give you a home and replicators can feed and clothe you, and you likely get a form of universal basic income in the form of credits.
There is no need to obtain more credits because all your basic needs are met.
But since the federation does need to engage in trade with other species, and not everything can be a simple trade, a currency is required.
You may not be able to replicate that new ferengi holonovel because the ferengi dont want to give it to you for nothing, so you convert some of your credits into Latium and buy it from a ferengi trader.
If you want more money than your government basic income, you have to earn it, so you get a job.
You think the waiters at Siskos Dads restraunt actually wait tables for fun?
So true.
I can easily imagine a situation where someone would be a waiter for fun. It's all in the concept of self-improvement. I've done all kinds of jobs as a volunteer.
Citizen: "I want to own my own starsihip.. How can I buy one?"
Starfleet: "We're over the concept of money, we don't buy things, how uncivilized"
Citizen: "OK, I still want my own starship, if I can't buy it, you'll just give me one? That's so neat."
Starfleet: "Well.. no, there's.. no way.. to fulfill your dream, but we have reeducation camps that will relieve of needing things."
I bet these cargo vessels can be used to introduce flora and fauna to recently terraformed Federation planets.
Yes Rick, tell me about all aspects of trade from within the Federation!
Very nice video. Thank you. I don't agree about Intrepid, the Vulcans aboard were members of Star Fleet. There was also very clearly money through TOS and in ST III, Mccoy is expecting to be able to charter a vessel for money. When Kirk says in ST IV they don't have money in the future, I think he's being disingenuous.
I like this! 👍 You give a very detailed video dedicated to what goes on in the background of Star Trek, where we really don't consider or think about. Space cargo vessels? Really? Seriously? 😏 Makes sense! 😌
There are also thriving "extralegal" businesses, such as those run by Cyrano Jones and Harcourt Fenton Mudd.
As late as 3189, Deep Space station 236 was dealing with the Orion Syndicate.
Star Treking across the universe.
We can only go forward because we cannot find reverse.
Another top show by you
Anyone else disappointed by the lack of the 'GENESIS!?!' guy?