Types of Cloaking (Star Trek)
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Following on from the Federation's history with Cloaking devices, it was asked that I look into the lore of various types of cloaking and why things like Starfleet's holographic shrouds are not against the Treaty of Algeron.
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This Video is for critical purposes with commentary.
It makes sense that the Federation has some of the best sensors around. For one thing, their stated goal is scientific observation and you need very sensitive and varied detection techniques to achieve that. Secondly, since they are limited to not developing cloaking technology they must constantly find ways to defeat cloaking tech in order to maintain a level playing field.
Which I think is the treaty's entire point. The Romulans like their stealth tech and DON'T want to lose that edge to anyone else. So they arm-twisted their way into a treaty that says "Don't play with our toys!" Star Fleet won't take that setback laying down, so they counter by nullifying the tech as best they can. Given their success rate, I'd say they're managing it, heh!
@@DaveP-uv1mlyou are also figuring in that Voyager is in the Delta Quadrant and is in relatively unknown spacial weather with subspace so maybe it's trying to figure it out but it has to bounce around the multiple "contacts" it gets with it's sensors. The only other cloaking tech it's experienced with is the Hierarchy ones.
The sound of a D’deridex cloaking & de-cloaking will always be one of my favorite sound effects.
Agreed. 😎😈
@@sagesheahan6732 its just how it sounds and the feeling you get when this massive, green glowing ship appears outta nowhere and especially when they don’t attack right away, they just de-cloak and you know how screwed you are.
Oi vey
Same here
It doesn't really make sense though.
There's also the pre-warp culture cloaking device where you close your eyes... and nobody can see you... (oooooh)
There's also the one where you remove their eyes
that's MAGIC!
That was the most advance one
Let's not forget "hiding behind the drapes" technology - a favorite of Caitians and Ferasans.
@@daveh7720 And Kilrathi.
"Seriously the UFP makes some of the best sensors around." I'd be very interested in seeing a video about various Trek sensor systems, the Medical Tricorder video is great but I'm thinking more ship level arrays and how they might differ for different species.
Oh! I can definitely get behind this!
I think that reason why the cloaking of the Reman Warbird, Scimitar, was so "perfect" is because I think that the Scimitar was actually employing more than one cloaking device. If you listen carefully to the movie during the starship battle, the dialogue implies that this is the case. Shinzon has part of the ship decloak in order to feign damage. I don't think that this would even be possible unless the ship was equipped with more than one cloaking device. The ship probably also had more than one power plant to compensate for the power usage of more than one cloaking device.
No. Thats not the case. Scimitars cloak was perfect and just one cloaking device, vut with multiple projectors and he could mask just part of the ship or a whole ship. It was segmented but it was one cloaking device. Not 2 not 3. Got it?
He said drop the cloak at the bottom port quadrant and prepare for emergency stop. He said it himself, quadrant. Tha cloak was segmented around the ship.
@@jos.1839 Yes, that is what he said, but it does not necessarily support what you are saying because there's a lack evidence for that possibility. Also, no other starships in the Star Trek universe that are equipped with a cloaking device have the ability that you're describing, because, with those ships, any battle damage on any part of the ship that sufficiently disrupts it ability to cloak by that much, it results in the ship becoming completely visible. Now, granted, the Romulans are constantly trying to improve their cloaking technology, but it is unlikely that the Romulans would have advanced their cloaking technology that much by the time of the events of "Star Trek: Nemesis" for Shinzon's cloak to be that "perfect". You, also, have to think logically about this, the Scimitar is basically a flying weapon of mass destruction more than it is a ship, and it was constructed in secret at a secret facility that even the Romulans themselves probably didn't know about. Something as big and as powerful as the Scimitar would not be easy to hide from anyone, especially with only one cloaking device, when cloaking devices use a LOT of power. So, logically, it would make more sense for the Scimitar to be equipped with multiple cloaking devices powered by multiple independent power plants to compensate for the high power consumption, thus allowing the Scimitar to be completely undetectable, EVEN when firing its standard ship weapons while cloaked. And firing while cloaked is another thing that starships in the Star Trek universe are normally not capable of doing due to the high power usage of a cloaking device.
The phase cloak definitely sounds like something section 31 would have access to and possibly perfecting
A very practical stealth technology that deserves a mention is the Mercenary Stealth Ship from TNG *Gambit* [season 7 episodes 4 & 5, Picard gets kidnapped and joins a crew looking for a ancient Vulcan psi weapon - that would have come in very handy during the Dominion war if it hadn't been destroyed 'for the common good'].
It had a passive Stealth system that only worked on long range sensors, so up close visual sensor (and eyes) worked just fine - but it was still a _very_ useful bit of technology, especially as it worked at warp without issues and didn't cause any power drain as it was a hull coating.
This would not be covered by the treaty of Algernon, so Starfleet could have installed it on its ships, and they even captured the Mercenary ship so they could have reverse engineered it… but that would violate the proud tradition of not copying Alien technology (Quantum Slipstream gets a exemption because they thought it was StarFleet tech when they first examined it)
[Section 31 probably did copy the stealth coating and installed it on their cloaked ships as it meant they would still be invisible when their cloaks were down during high warp at a distance from any other ships/stations.]
There's no telling how much 👽 tech Section 31 stole in long time in operation!!!!!!!! I've often wondered when they came into being and what drove the human spies into creating it!!!!!! Their existance proves that us humans are STILL in the spy business well into the Star Trek future!!!!!!! They probably came up with some excellent cloaking technology that they wouldn't share with others!!!!!!!!!
@@dustygrant3043 since we ‘see’ so little of Section 31 they must have some very sophisticated kind of cloaking device. Sometimes I think they could make a few more episodes regarding Section 31 and not only with 1 member like on DS9 or like Discovery with a fleet but also more in times of Borg and Dominion war.
@@tonp2917 yeah, they didn’t detect any ship to have kidnapped Bashir, nor any transporter beam residual effects either. Using a hodgepodge of alien tech they kept building on after Starfleet declared them too finicky for the small benefit would be a great way to explain that.
I think that long range cloak is nothing more than a slightly ionized particle field acting like the surface currents caused in metal at high frequencies. That’s why people can survive lightning strikes, the frequencies are so high they do not penetrate far into the human body.
That’s why we are working on meta materials. The skin like layer can be used to channel light around the object like molecular fiber optic cables, or angled mirrors if you prefer. Magicians have been doing this for centuries.
Maybe that's how Starfleet made fighters and other small vessels more viable during the Dominion War. I say only smaller ships because I imagine a passive stealth system wouldn't work too well on larger ships.
What's funny about invisibility is, given the distances of space, actually being invisible to the naked eye would be the least important aspect of the cloak.
It helps when dealing with plants. Any empty field is an invisible landing zone. At least for Klingon ships. Given that the Romulan and Klingon empires are expansionest the ability to land troops undetected is a boon. Then there is always Romulan infiltration.
The technology the Voth used for cloaking was interesting!
There's another really good Voyager episode called "scientific method" where a group of aliens use a similar cloaking strategy to conduct torturous medical experiments on the crew.
the 5D being observing me most likely need extensive therapy after every shift
Nah, he works it all out by pestering Superman.
I'd offer him some 2 dimensional beer, but I think it's gone flat
@@athrunzala6919
I laughed far longer then I should have at this joke.
Thank you, and good job :) (this is entirely earnest)
@@athrunzala6919 HA!
There is no way that section 31 didn't keep refining the Pegasus cloak.
@Jim Humphries -- Yep. ua-cam.com/video/rbztdTay5BM/v-deo.html
Where did you think that Quantum and Transphasic Torpedoes came from? Admiral Janeway may have brought the tech to Voyager but I doubt she invented it.
You forgot to cover "The Suliban" method which uses a particle that is applied to the surface of an object that does it.
Remember, Trip had his arm doused in the cloaking particles and he had an "Invisible Arm" for a while.
yeah. the cloaking tech in ENT was this "ecover with a unique particle which makes something invisible." tech. even the romulans used it for mines. the romulan ships used something else though (the novels say a prototype of the later true cloaking device seen in the 23rd century. personalyl i suspect holographic based cloak, using technology similar to the holo-disguise the romulan drone in Season 4 had)
though i suspect the beacon tech Daniels gave Archer to defeat such cloaks eventually became a standard on all federation ships, rendering that form of cloaking less useful as time went on.
personally i've been figuring the cloaks used by the klingons in Discovery were just enhanced versions of that type of cloak, possibly with some sort of scrambling field that made the beacons less effective. which would help explain how the federation could fight a war with cloak capable klingons, but still think that the light bending cloaks the romulans show up using a few years later in TOS were impossible. (it would also help explain why the klingons were so willing to trade with the romulans to get it.. the romulan gravity based cloak would be much more effective than the particle based version.)
@@glitterboy2098 The nice part about "Particle" based cloaks is that you can mount them on projectiles like (Torpedos / Missiles / Mines / etc) that are all meant to be "Disposable". It's a energy efficient method of cloaking since it's basically equivalent to modern day "Stealth Paint".
@@kamenriderblade2099 The downside being that you can't turn it on and off as desired.
@@PongoXBongo The Suliban managed to turn if off when they desired, Trip Tucker just doesn't fully understand how to make it work. And when applied to Torpedoes/Missiles, you generally don't want to turn it off.
I dun think we... SAW that one :p
TOS : my God what is that!, it seems to be under a cloaking field sir.
TNG : Scan for Tachyons... okay fire.
Certifiably In-game:. Forget the tachyon burst, order the replicators to produce about three hundred thousand tons of flour and water, and load them into the forward torpedo tubes. Give me an optimal firing solution, full spread, and optimal consistency for the flour nebulae, and.......fire.
-- Torpedoes away, sir. We have detonations....we have toast, sir.
@@Robert_Douglass I wonder if you could maybe modify the deflector shield to scatter a fine cloud of dust around the ship for a similar purpose?
@@PongoXBongo I don't get it -- how would you scatter flour dust throughout space with the shields? Some sort of energy pulse from the deflector array? Any way to deploy the flour other than the torpedo tubes would foul up any of the other vital systems of the ship. Can't use the RCS quads, that would gum them up and seriously affect manoeuvring. Can't expel it from the warp nacelles cause flour isn't the same as metreon gas -- it is a colloidal system and not a gas. At least with metreon gas you can blow it out of the warp engines and cloud the area, and any hostile vessels in pursuit would have to go into that volatile crap and risk getting blowed the eff up. Flour would gum up the vents and prevent FLT or worse, react with warp plasma and cause some sort of chain reaction that would blow up the ship. Nope, torpedoes are the only viable means of getting that crap out into space in the first place. And as they're headed at low warp into their targets, retooling the deflector array to emit an energy pulse to push off what would essentially outrun the pulse would be counterintuitive. Can't make Romulan toast out of a D'Deridex any other way.
The power source of the Scimitar had a long term radiation problem causing those who are around the power source for any length of time succumb to radiation damage that was stated in the movie.
Really? Need to rewatch it. What scene?
And there's the "temporal cloak" by the krenin.
You mean krenim
They were also out of phase I think, a second to the left of the time stream or something.
Given that Romulan cloaks leak chronotons (time particles?!?), I think it's roughly the same tech.
Another fun tidbit about the Romulan Warbird is the hull shape is designed to help mask the warp signature from the two nacelles
As is the Romulan choice of using a Singularity Core instead of a more typical M/AM Warp Core. Despite being based on the same tech, Klingon cloaking devices don't quite mask their ships emissions as well as the Romulans do, and the typical Warp Core the Klingons use is one of the reasons why.
Or do you really think the Romulans would have given away a technology that works just as good on other races ships as on their own, in exchange for a(admittedly large) number of cruisers? No, the Romulans always get more out of such deals, or their "trade partner" gets less out of it than they think. ;)
Reading (listening to) ST:Picard The Dark Veil right now. Riker utilizes an ion storm to pick up a cloaked Warbird by seeing its silhouette in the sensor readings, similar to your lake analogy.
If a cloak bends light around a ship I would think it would cause "rippling" of the background as it moves.
@@ericpode6095 🤷♀️ Sounds accurate to me!
Romulan D'Deridex is still my favorite TNG era ship. Sleek, sexy, powerfull, it has it all.
Always loved that the cloaked relocation ship in Insurrection was just glossed over like it was completely normal for it to have a cloak.
IIRC the cloak was supplied by the Son'a, and the ship was leased to them for the operation... so technically not used by the federation.
It was not made by the Federation so it didn't count. Both Kirk and Picard used Klingon ships specifically for their cloaks.
Funny, I always thought the holoship just used holograms to hide itself. That would have made a lot more sense in context.
But as I recall, didn't they specifically mess around with Interphasic cloak tech because it was technically allowed under the ban. I mean, they obviously wanted it kept secret since the Romulans would raise a stink about it if they found out, but as I recall it was more of a "Even if they find this out, they will just force us to revise the agreement to include this tech" diplomatic snafu.
More or less, yeah, that's my recollection too. It was some type of technicality that wouldn't break the exact letter of the treaty, but it would be close enough that the Romulans (and anyone in the Federation deluded enough to take their side) would raise a huge stink about it.
The fact that the research itself was extremely dangerous, and not officially approved by Starfleet HQ, added extra layers of trouble to the whole situation. I got the impression that the admiralty was planning to look the other way on the project: if it worked, then it would be such a game-changer that it would only be revealed in dire situations like a new major war. If it didn't work, then they could claim they never approved of any project so underhanded as trying to invent their own cloaking device.
Because it created an invisible ship, it still fell under the ban of the treaty of Algeron. However if the Pegasus merely became intangible and hid in an asteroid, perhaps it would be allowed.
The illegality of it is one of the defining issues of the episode.
No, it is completely banned, Pressman knew it was banned, and led the research specifically because he thought the treaty was wrong.
I loved how in Insurrection (? Where Data spazzes) the villages didn't seem to care that Starfleet was there, since they were only observing. If I remember correctly, the villagers had been aware of them for some time, but were just letting them do their thing.
# The tachyon weakness goes further. As shown in TNG: "Redemption II", you can effectively create a network of tachyon "tripwires" between cooperating ships or stations. The Romulan cloaks of the time were unsuited for beating it.
And flying through a area inundated by a tachyon pulse, gave a trace even conventional sensors could track
1:30 Why not commet dust? With that, one could break the Balance of Terror!
I do not understand your issue with the Holoship. It was hidden on the *bottom of a reservoir*
Meaning there was enough water to hide a uncloaked ship from eyes. Water is already a very good way to shield yourself from eyes and even lower tech sensors. Adding a holographic or full cloak really is just good sense.
As for parking it in orbit: They did *not* want any questions about the presence of that ship asked by Data or the Enterprise Crew. Any place other then largely powered down below tons of water would be too obvious, too risky and too far away to update the simulation or beam everyone on short notice.
11:00 The Treaty of Algeron prohibitions cloaking devices.
A "holographic cloak" propably can be defeated by Radar. Unless additional measures are employed to hide the holofield itself, it makes the thing you are hiding more obvious to any spacefaring society. You would hide it from eyes, only to have created a beacon for sensors.
Hey look I can see your footprints in the dirt, grass, mud as you walk around haha! 😃
Naw, that's just the natural behavior of the mud. Little footprint-shaped sinkholes.
“Eiahhh! The Invisible Man! Ahhhhh ha, ahhhhhh!” 🍺
“Ere ‘naow, wots all this?” 👮
There's the stealth tech the Raider ship used in the TNG episode 'Gambit', it absorbed sensors to avoid detection just as todays stealth absorbs radar signals
Can't wait for next STO video! I'll watch this one to get a quick fix though ;)
Loved the ? Above the ambassador class. Made me think of metal gear solid when you knock on a wall near an enemy. " ? Huh! What was that noise"
Hmm I never considered there was more than 2 types of cloak being interphasic and standard
It’s crazy that you can cloak/phase people out of both the visual spectrum AND beyond what sensors can pick up. And you don’t even need to keep anything running, as LaForge and Ro Larin were phased for three days. You would think that section 31 especially would be interested in this amazing espionage tool. You could fly a phased ship to Romulus, land, and bring out a bunch of people with all kinds of equipment. It’s actually too powerful to the point that using it like it would really be used would have completely changed the entire show. There are other things like that all through Star Trek.
I remember in one Voyager episode the crew started experiencing weird effects, or just increased normal effects (like Janeway getting longer-lasting headaches or something like that) and through Seven they find out it's a bunch of invisible aliens experimenting on them. So which type of cloak would they fall under?
I could be wrong here, but I think that was the episode with the Voth. Someone feel free to correct me if I am. Although as I type this, I feel like I might be wrong because I vaguely recall a different one. Stuff was legit attached to Janeway's head, wasn't it?
@@robertbrown1141 no, the Voth we're humanoid dinosaurs with little to no interest in mammals like us. The original poster is referring to a humanoid race that was experimenting on the voyager crew. I believe they were slightly out of phase with our reality. If I remember correctly Janeway forced them off the ship by heading for a trianary neutron star.
Re: the Treaty of Alderaan.
Alderaan was destroyed by the first Death Star, thus rendering the treaty moot.
YOUR MOVE, TREK
You can't raise shields or fire weapons while cloaked because of the power consumption of the cloaking device, its a rule in the table top game starfleet battles and the PC game starfleet command
There are a couple work arounds that can be used. Klingon torpedoes and just having more power available.
but what abour tgat one klingin one that. could lauch torpedos is? perhaps its because unlike phasers or disruptors a torpedos power system. is built in
bjt still tha reveals your position
There's a book called Resistance by JM Dillard which covers another type of cloak. While on a mission to launch a sneak attack against a Borg Cube that's trying to create a new queen, it is revealed to the Enterprise-E crew that during the 2370s, Starfleet had somehow been coding the means of cloaking a vessel directly into Starfleet vessel computers and those codes were locked down by Admiral-level security (which for plot contrivance Janeway helped out with).
Now if I remember the novel right, it's never revealed if the codes essentially turn the ship's shield grid into a cloaking field, or if the codes contain the schematics for a short-term cloaking device to be used in emergency situations. As an aside though, this book also revealed that the Sovereign-class had a saucer-separation sequence, as it was utilised for the sneak attack.
It makes sense that the Federation would have the best sensors encountered by most galactic civilizations, considering their founding members include the Vulcans, their oldest enemy are the Romulans, as well as their penchant for needing to study and see every aspect of the natural world that they encounter while exploring.
If the Federation specializes in anything,
it's sensors. 🛰️📡🔭🔬
Hell. The navigational deflector doubles as the long range sensor array. Effectively giving every starship its own 23rd-24th century level Hubble Space telescope IN the deflector.
Its a giant particle emitting eyeball...
@@sagesheahan6732 And don't forget its various ways to twist and tear spacetime or use it as a wave-motion gun.
@@Janoha17 Aye! The ultimate sci-fi swiss army knife!
Now I'm itching for a video on different ship sensor systems ^_^
This channel is couch food. I love it! Thanks for so the great content guys!!
In the Ep. where Ro and LaForge got Phased in a transporter accident, once Geordi noticed that Data was detecting the "chronotons", why didn't Geordi write in the wall or consol, "HEY DATA. IT'S ME GEORDI, I'M NOT DEAD!"
Or more simply, transmit a Morse code message to Data. I’m sure he’d pick up on it promptly.
I love how the secret observation post with holoprojectors is literally just 2 filing cabinets and a desk
If you could hide your heat, you can create a very good cloak. If you can mask your mass and heat you'd have a perfect cloak.
Starfleet has something called Silent Running. Kirk once used that, killing all running lights, confining all exhaust to the extreme rear of the ship, a computer shutdown, bringing in the crew from the non-bridge sections of the ship closest to the outer hull, cooling said sections of the ship to the ambient vacuum temperature, relying on passive scans only, and emitting a signal of ONE WATT towards the Romulan vessel it was sneaking up on in order to blind it when it left that mode. Furthermore, that one-watt signal was the only warning the Romulans got that they hadn't actually blown up the ship.
Strange how the Dominion didn’t use cloaking devices on their ships but their Jem’Hadar troops have personal cloaks. Why??
Ground combat is different than space combat tactics
The shroud is a 'natural' ability, they might not be able to cloak a ship or there scanner are so good that they don't use cloaking devices.
Maybe it’s a power generation issue. Bigger thing = more power needed to cloak.
@@MedalionDS9 Also thinking the Dominion wants to use psy-ops on opponents in multiple ways: "See all the ships we have that will wipe you out...wait until the invisible troops from those ships shoot your people in their faces too."
The Dominion believe in overwhelming strength and displays of power. Stealth is not their forte in space. The Je'm Hadar are ground forces that do require stealth, so they do shroud.
Considering the Founders can morph into anything, perhaps they do not bother with trying to hide their ships
"hey guys, let's park it in a lake and cloak the ship, nobody will question the large hole in the water tension at all"
"freaking genius idea captain, we are onto it"
To be fair, it was above the water level of the lake until Data drained a resouvior in to it.
I always wondered about this.
Thank You.
I believe in the books there is theory that Romulan cloaking technology came from Slaver stasis box discovered by the Romulans. But either the device was damaged or more likely so advanced that the Romulan cloak was their best copy of what they could understand. We never saw the Dominion trick of anti-proton beam scans on the Simitars new cloak. The Klingons also experimented with phase cloaking technology but the accidents that happened were so bad the Klingons were forced to abandon the project.
I guess in the treaty it is about technology that makes stuff truly harder to detect. Like a holographic disguise may hide stuff from the naked eye, but probably makes it even more visible for all other kinds of sensors. So it isn't really a problem. Like a hologram actively emits light and such, so a ship doing that, would basically turn into a giant lightbulb. One that looks like it's surroundings, but still radiating light and possibly other radiation like crazy.
The scimitar employed a very old cloaking technology, it's known as plot armor.
Enterprise has Plot Armor, Scimitar had Villainous Advantage.
In a Voyager episode we learn that the Hirogen used Federation hologram tech given to them by Voyager in a previous episode to make holograms which can even fool UFP sensors.
Hirogen's also use material science to mask their ship's energy signatures. Apparently sheathing your cables in monotanium hide the power bleed.
The writers of Star Trek, really don't know how fertile the genre really is.
They could do a whole series of the Scimitar fighting during the Dominion Wars.
That could be a dark and disturbing like mini-series. :)
I'm reminded of the harpoon that bounces off the cloaked Bird of Prey's hull in Star Trek IV.
In star trek voyager think tank.... the ship just sat in subspace ...when you can hide a ship outside of regular space I guess you win 🏆
Until your opponent cheats. ;)
Informative and entertaining as always... you're in the right biz my man :)
I swear it probably says in the treaty : holographic light bending is okay due to us being unable to police such a large policy. (It makes sense if they just exempt any tech they see as 'not as good as rom/kdf cloak')
Excellent video. How about one on methods of cloak detection?
We have electromagnetic field sensors that are much the same as a digital camera since 2017. as of 2018 the last time I hird about the development of the technology it has about 6 feet effective range which is far more effective than simply using a metal detector to find wires and utility pipes in ground or walls and it can find electronics or spy devices too vary effective vs things with radio transmitters!
1:36
Yeah.. thats a GREAT POINT. 🤦♂️
4:43 For the interphasic cloak you should have used a Oberth as the diagram. …
Or at least got the scales right!
Some random thoughts: Aren't Transphasic Torpedos an application of phasing, where the warhead phases through a ship to detonate inside it?
Also, one issue with standard cloaks is that light traveling through the cloaking field will go slower than light passing by the object. This is probably the cause of the visible distortion.
I believe the Suliban used a phase cloak that didn't phase the object completely out of normal phase, so objects still interacted normally except for light (and only in long distances).
The Jem'Hadar and the species LaForge almost turned into could naturally cloak themselves.
Massive cloaking fields were used by far future societies such as the Sphere Builders or even Starfleet in the 32nd century.
"It is based on generating a destructive subspace compression pulse. Upon detonation the torpedo delivers the pulse in an asymmetric superposition of multiple phase states. Shields can only block one subcomponent of the pulse. The other subcomponents deliver the majority of the pulse to the target. Every torpedo has a different transphasic configuration, generated randomly by a dissonant feedback effect to prevent the Borg from predicting the configuration of the phase states. " - Memory Alpha
Okay NOW I wana see an inexperienced romulan captain fire disruptors under cloak! (Just explodes as the federation laughs)
The Romulans train their officers very rigidly, so this is not likely
so the 3 types
1-dont let it get to you
2-let it pass you
3-let it think its not looking at you
also would sensor jammers or containing trackable emmisions counts as cloaks?
If anyone is actually worried about the higher dimensional observers - this is actually very easy to test with modern technology and we've verified that any other dimensions that exist do not interact with our own or are too minuscule for an observer to exist in. The method is very simple - energy transmitted in 1-dimensional space over distance doesn't change. Energy transmitted in 2-dimensional space spreads out 1/ ( 2 * π * r ) where r is the distance traveled. In 3 dimensional space it's 1/(4 * π * r²). This continues to make the attenuation greater over the same distance with more available dimensions, so all you have to do is watch something very big, very far away emit a known amount of energy omnidirectionally and then measure that energy's concentration a known distance away. The larger the distance, the more accurate you can get. And the result lines up with 3 spatial dimensions to within the distance of our observable universe.
If other spatial dimensions exist, they are too small to contain matter to do any observing of you. And, no, the "what if they (technobabble)" excuses don't give a loophole - for them to observe you, matter and energy have to work the same along those dimensional planes.
The technological arms race between cloak generation and detection is very grounded. Two years ago an army engineer came to my university and commented on how aircraft thermal countermeasures would become obsolete now that image recognition AI is being developed for missiles. And one day someone will find a way to counter that too.
flares have been useless for almost two decades now, the moment they started putting thermal imaging arrays in heat seekers even basic programing could tell the difference.
its all about making ir lasers to blind the missile senors now
As hard as I find it to believe that the Klingons were the ones to come up with a cloak that you can fire through, I don’t get why they abandoned it. I mean, even with Starfleet knowing about it and it’s weakness, wit could still be a devastating weapon especially against unprepared targets. And it’s not like every Starfleet ship would have a specially modified torpedo ready to go straight away.
Because Azebettur took power, her faction likely erased all knowledge of it in an act of goodwill and damage limitation. Also, Worf says that attacking without decloaking is not the Klingon way at all, so anyone recreating Chang's ship risks being cast out of Klingon society.
We are never told how Chang's ship stays in cloak while firing.
Frim what I understand the cloak was an undocumented prototype. I could have become standard later, but was kept under wraps until full war was declared. The ship happened to be destroyed before then. Apparently it was kept secret to prevent information leaking about it and giving the Federation a way of negotiating out of the coup.
The Treaty of Algeron was worded to preserve the balance of power: Starfleet had faster ships, and thus could respond to any incursion quickly, from any point. Romulans lacked speed and availability, thus relied on cloaked ships being stationed near critical locations. If the Federation developed cloaks, it would have negated the Romulan advantage, thus unsettling a delicate balance between the two post-war powers. Basically it's "we can run, but you get crutches", in order to preserve each power's "first strike" capability.
So, with infrared imaging, we could easily detect holographic "cloaks." Maybe we haven't fit the Federation's "primitive culture" definition for a few decades. Not to mention we can in fact manufacture anti-matter but FTL remains elusive. We need to double our efforts towards the Alcubierre drive.
Yeah, there is probably a point where they can't observe a culture closely without risking detection but still having to avoid detection for fear of violating the Prime Directive. Would be difficult to observe in-solar system without a cloaking device, too.
Hence UFOs
They can see us but since we have aliens in our popular culture they're just written off
Cloaking a vessel is a feasible task, such as stealth technology, if sensors and view screens are the only means of observation. Sensors and view screen utilise signal processing to decrease background noise, false detection, and also increase detection by estimating flight paths. These circuits can be fooled easily. But by just looking out a window reveals that the cloaked vessel is there all along.
Electronic cloaking affects the observer and not the object being observed.
The "moties" from the Mote in God's Eye novel series has a super conductor for heat that they could use to delay the emission of waste heat that enabled them to cloak their heat signature.
I’d still rather be aboard a kzinti ship
That question mark though. Made me laugh so loud.
Its why I view the defiant's cloak makes sense as it has tones of energy, it can easily supply enough power to power the cloak
One of the PC games also mentions a chameleonic field. Instead of trying to hide, the ship gives off readings as if a simple passive object.
I'm pretty sure this is Rick's way of coming out as a five dimensional alien being who watches all his subscribers while we sleep.
Parking in the air works only until flight of birds decides to fly straight through the space your ship is currently occupying. Then you have to call the cleaning crew.
the schmitar cloak was not a romulan empire cloak it was a secret cloak developed by the remans under shinzon and is how he seized the romulan empire because the schimitar was far more advanced and deadly than any romulan ship
Rick, you mentioned that it was a prototype Romulan warbird called the scimitar, might I suggest that you re-watch the movie "Nemesis". That ship, the "Scimitar ", was Reeman. Devised, designed, and created by the future Preator Shinzon, of Remus. Who was also a temporal R.N.A. copy of Capt. Jean Luc Picard, of the USS ENTERPRISE NCC-1701-E.
I like the raspberry ones best.
There is a type of time cloke that makes whatever is shrouded in it unobservable and unable to be effected by any means even changing the time line and physical objects can be easily passed through in some cases. But it also has the problem that you need a time drive just for it to work.
I would like a video explaining why the use sonic showers rather than water showers. Even without replicators, reclaiming and purifying dirty water should be very easy for Star Trek technology.
Wouldn’t want to be taking one of the gravity failed
I have hysperian Intel crusier and it has cloaking technology a.k.a the spell of invisibility.it's wonderful and has no time limit on it
Love how the Ambassador-class ship in the interphasic cloak diagram was like "WTF was that??" after the phase-shifted D'deridex passed through it. XD
Nothing bothered me more about TNG than the existence of a phase cloak Star Fleet couldn't use by treaty. I'm with the Admiral on that one.
The enterprise despite her science teams on board, didn't have science equipment so it couldn't detect cloaks if it tried. The only vessels that can detect cloaks are science vessels which games like Star Trek Online have expanded on. Polaron weapons, polaron deflectors (the dish not the shields), and probes are all used on Star Trek Online to get around cloaking devices. These are typically on highly sensitive ships like the intel ships. Also, the one ship Data used to detect cloaked ships crossing the neutral zone has tacyon beam webs that it can send out using probes that will detect cloaked vessels nearby.
*Treaty of Algeron:*
*Romulan Empire:* "You're not allowed to spy on us with the same technology that we still use to spy on you! In an exchange we will quit spying on you and attacking *fingers crossed behind back*"
*Federation:* "Sure! And we'll Never call you out for when you violate the treaty but we'll promptly let you know and apologize and pay for whenever we break it."
I wonder if the confidence of the UFP to eventually beat any technical problem, is why they abstain from certain technologies.
a good camo a dark colored ship without lighted windows and great EM protection
How do you conceal its heat emissions?
@@d.b.4671 You don't. You store the heat, which effectively gives you a time limit for staying in stealth mode. See the SSV Normandy(both of them) from Mass Effect, which uses exactly this method of stay undetectable by sensors.
2:40
*looks at kinetic based shell weaponry*
We still have these!
Insurrection shows Starfleet will send soldiers to war with a phaser and a pat on the back while Scientists get cloaking suit, holographic camouflage, access to cloaked transport ships. and invisibility special effects budget like knocking over pots or breaking something. Oh, also it showed a really crappy movie to viewers, because it made me think about how the folks fighting the Dominion Jem'Hadar could have used that equipment.
Remember they thought the Baku were primitive and that the Dominion was able to break cloaks a number of times. In general, the Dominion was considered almost on par or better than federation tech... well at least at the start of the war. The Federation knows how to catch up luckily. Dominion soldiers could also 'Shroud' but it was limited in time use and capabilities. The Jem Hadar needed a good supply of white to use it constantly. No white = no shroud. I never had an issue with with insurrection on the cloak tech used. I thought it was funny since they went to such lengths when the Baku actually knew about technology at this level-ish.
@@thepropagandastudiosbrigs0927 I just find it funny the scientists are more well-armed than the actual troops who gotta fight the Jem'Hadar, that's all. Also, the Federation could have used that healing energy because of all the wounded. But instead, we just got a bad movie.
I would argue that human beings, and perhaps all sentient beings, at actually *4D* beings in that we can sense time as well (wait 5 minutes, then act). As opposed to, say, a rock that cannot (act immediately or not at all).
.
The difference is that a 3D object is essentially "static", like a 3D printed part. Whereas, a 4D object is "dynamic", like a hologram. An example of a 4D printer would be the holodeck in Star Trek; objects are not only solid but also moving about. This 4D printing can either be sci-fi tech or fantasy magic (summoning, for example).
I feel like the treaty banned starfleet from making any vessels with any form of cloaking technology excluding the defiant which was if I remember a joint operation between the federation and the romulan empire (if I recall it was soon forgotten about after initiated xD)
Virgin Cloaking device Vs Chad Superior Sensors
The basic cloak described sounds similar to gravitational lensing, sensors would have to be able to pick up that effect on a small scale at close range; shouldn't be too hard really by the 24th C as we are figuring it out now on large scales at great distance, we have time to improve.
The Treaty of Alderon has expired in Star Trek Online, which is now in the 25th century.
They didn't request its reinstatement so the treaty was nullified and therefore Section 31 was able to build ships with cloaks as well as Federation Intel ships with cloaks and energy dampening ship designs which were shared with the Klingons and the Romulans.
There’s always been a controversy over the reality of dealing with an invisible space craft. That is, the ability for anything cloaked to SEE OUTSIDE the cloak. The original appearance in Balance of Terror had it right, that, not just weapons and shields were inoperative while cloaked, the ship’s sensors would give incomplete readings. I don’t know if they fixed that but there’s a scene in ST4 that just throws logic out the window where we see a live feed from a video camera outside the cloaked HMS Bounty. Since it is impossible for an invisible camera to record and transmit a video feed due to everything we know about physics, most people cite that as an error.
I believe the "perfected" cloak needs a Romulan Singularity Core to work "perfectly". It even makes a certain logical sense... we currently don't know anything about what's inside the event horizon of such a singularity(or simply called a black hole). It only makes sense when one considers that the power requirements of the cloak were *STILL* too high to power shields or weapons, despite the major advance in power generation technology. Or maybe power isn't the issue at all... maybe it's the energy/EM/technobabble signatures of active shields and weapons that would give away a cloaked ship?
As for the Klingon Cloak, it never really worked as well as the Romulan Cloak, despite being basically the same tech. They even sound different when activating/deactivating. Remember Star Trek V, where the Enterprise A's sensors picked up a *cloaked* Klingon Bird of Prey... and not just that a cloaked ship is in the vicinity, but the actual type of ship! And that were TOS/TMP tech sensors, not the almost magical "all seeing eye" sensors that seem to be standard issue on TNG and later era Federation ships.
It may not have been hard to tell it was a Klingon bird of prey. Not many Klingon vessels at the time had a cloak.
nice little flatlander diagram
With the downfall of the Romulans, i'm hoping that Starfleet now develop Cloaks.
If they go with disco series canon they will be 26 - 27th century ships
The Treaty of Algeron is still in effect by 2399. It seems that the Romulan Free State decided to preserve it.
@@Pavel_M_Mihalik Until Reunification, and by the 32nd century cloaking technology was standard for Starfleet vessels.
@@Janoha17 Indeed.
Riker quotes the Treaty of Algeron as far as the Picard series, so it is still in effect
0:58
Seems like a simple doppler variation (a difference of milliseconds, but there) would reveal a cloaked vessel and would be detectable by such an advanced computer as the Enterprise
I’ve always wondered - what is that half federation bird of prey ship from 2:09
That's a TOS era Warbird.
By the time of the later series those were basically museum pieces, and it says something that in the Romulan campaign start for STO you find one floating in space as junk and take it as your starting ship.
Its one saving grace (aside from the traditionally superior Romulan tech) is that it has an absolutely ginormous spinal plasma torpedo launcher for a main gun, which makes it surprisingly lethal at close range. With this thing you pretty much need to sneak up on your target under cloak and then stab them in the back.
@@Reddotzebra In Lower Decks one actually shows up in a Vulcan museum. (Complete with working cloaking device)
In the original screenplay, it was supposed to be a Federation ship that the Romulans stole. That bit of info never made it to the final dialog.
Interestingly, the idea of a ship being able to launch torpedos while cloaked didn't die completely. It's a bit odd that apparently no faction ever re-developed this ability - I'd expect the Romulans to be able to do that by the time of TNG, but they never were. Perhaps that was too powerful. However, in Star Trek Online, you can actually launch torpedoes while cloaked. Although this is more like dropping the cloak, firing, and then re-cloaking. You're exposed for a second or two, without shields, allowing the enemies to fire at you.
Also, the interphasic cloak never made sense. On one hand, you can pass through any solid matter, but you can still walk on the floor of a spaceship. Also, sensor emissions pass right through you, as does light, but you can still see.
Although cloaking devices generally suffer from that issue. Light is bent around them, as are any sensor emissions. How can they still see?
During a role play in an alternate StarTrek reality, we went around this by defining cloaked ships like submerged submarines. They're blind, but they can use sensor "pings" on a specific frequency which can penetrate the cloak. This frequency is usually not monitored by other ships, unless they're actively searching for cloaked ships, but it also doesn't return a very good image. Cloaked ships are also equipped with a sort of sensor "periscope" that penetrates the cloak if necessary to look around, but can be detected by other ships.
'detecting neutrino surge... WARBIRD DECLOAKING!'
Tiny warbird or huge Ambassador class?
It’s clearly stated that Shinzon built the Scimitar on Remus in a secret base and he probably created it’s cloak that’s why no ship has it’s perfect cloak because the person who built the Scimitar one died
Of course, since the Romulan Empire does not exist any longer as they were destroyed, the treaty of Algeron no longer applies, which means starfleet from that point on can apply cloaks to anything and everything it wants.
neat stuff, keep it up.
I wear a cloaking device when it is cold and windy. It is made of hi-tech waterproof insulated material. People can still see me though. They can probably detect me with radar, IR and thermal imaging too, but it is an effective cloaking device against natural phenomena.