Why did Thranduil from The Hobbit tolerate Galadriel and even Elrond? Good reasons.
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- Thranduil is one of the most powerful elven lords of the Third Age of Middle-earth. Moreover, he was the only one who held the title of king. He ruled over the rather large (by elven standards of the Third Age) nation of Mirkwood elves and stubbornly resisted the growing influence of Sauron's forces.
At the same time, Thranduil had little contact with the rest of the Elven lords, who actually opposed Sauron as well. Thranduil was not summoned to the White Council, no global plans of the Forces of Light were discussed with him, no intelligence was shared, and in general it was as if he had no contact.
I don't know about anyone else, but I despise bots reading these things and screwing up pronunciation.
Very butchered, isn't it?
It is horrible to listen to, and I have even seen audio books read by bots as well 😮💨 imagine to listen to a complete book like this
Well, if your first language is English, and especially if you're an accomplished vocal practitioner, that's probably understandable. But many or most people aren't. I know it can be a bit annoying, but it is at least spoken in a language you understand, you don't have to read subtitles to access it.
I thought I was the only one lol
Agreed. It's hard to take this video seriously because of all the mispronunciations.
Galadriel's mother was Teleri and she was said to have "fought fiercly" in defense of her mother's kin against Feanor and his sons in Alqualonde...Thranduil was descended from the Sindar of Doriath, severed kin of the Teleri who, after the events of the First Age had desired to go back to the simple life of their ancestors, before the journey westward. His father was killed in war with Sauron so I think Thranduil rather sought to keep his people safe by means of secrecy in the woods and in his caves (an echo of Thingol's caves of Menegroth). He saw becoming involved in outside affairs as putting the safety of his people at risk.
When Aragorn took Gollum for safe keeping, Aragorn took Gollum to Thranduil.
Thranduil by this time was the oldest Sindar elf left in middle earth. While he seemed hostile to everyone he kept the dragons north of middle earth held the line against the spiders patrolled the eastern side of mountains and kept watch over both smaug and the goblins. He was like a general who was to busy to bother with anything outside his theater of combat. Like wish so was Elrond. Elrond in one aspect kept the only watch over Angmar and the nazgul. Galadriel ruled lothlorien and provided a retreat for elves weary of the long stalemate.
Thranduil would also been taught by Melian and most probably spoke to Elron and Galadriel mind to mind. That power is inherent in all Elves to one extent or another.
What about Cirdan? Wasn’t he technically a Sindar?
I'm not sure this is completely all correct in context.
1. Thingol had good relations with the children of Finarfin, of whom Galadriel was the youngest. Of course, he was very upset and angry to hear of the KInslaying (and Galadriel did beat about the bush about it, until Melian perceived the truth), but even that did not permanently break the bond with the children of Finarfin. Yes, he didn't like the Noldor, but remember that Finarfin's descends were _also_ part-Teleri - Galadriel was the daughter of Eärwen, Olwe's daughter and therefore the great-neice of Thingol himself. So if Oropher and Thranduil honoured Thingol, they _should_ have respected that Galadriel was one of the few "Noldor" in Thingol's favour, as well as of course in Melian's too.
2. Although Galadriel's reasoning for leaving Valinor and coming to Middle Earth was largely to set up as a ruler of a land herself, and although she achieved it _eventually_ in Lothlorien, she didn't do it for a very, very long time - unlike particularly her cousins, the sons of Feanor and Fingolfin. In fact, she dwelt in Doriath with Thingol and Melian for many, many years - she was "of Doriath" in many ways, including her choice of husband - another nobleman of Doriath (said to be Thingol's great-nephew). Again, Oropher and Thranduil would have known this and _should_ have respected the fact she did not ever take the title of Queen, even though she co-ruled a kingdom and was in fact a Princess by birth.
3. Again, if Oropher and Thranduil honoured Thingol and his grandson/successor, Dior, they should appreciate also that Elrond was Dior's grandson...and that he as a child at the time was blameless when it came to the fall of Doriath and the Second Kinslaying, and of being captured by the sons of Feanor to be raised by them. Actually, Elrond is in a fairly unique position to not only be the one with the best claim to be High King of the Noldor folllowing Gil-Galad's death but _also_ the High King of the Sindar through being Dior's grandson and Thingol's great-great-grandson. That he chose not to pursue either title _should_ have been a point in his favour with respects to Oropher/Thranduil.
Galadriel had nothing to do with the Kinslaying, which was done by a different house of the Noldor, and Elrond was born rather late in the first age, long after the Kinslaying. Galadriel had dwelt with King Thingol in Doriath. Also, Thingol and Galadriel had been to Aman, but Elrond and Thranduil had never been there, at least not until after Sauron's final defeat. It seems like the author of this video is claiming that Galadriel and Elrond got blamed by Thranduil for a lot of things that had nothing to do with them.
Galadriel and Elrond weren’t even full Noldor (Galadriel being half Teleri, close kin to the Sindar) and Elrond was a victim of the kinslayings so I dunno about this analysis of Thranduil’s thoughts.
The entire Noldor who returned were under the doom of Kinslaying and some of them, while unwitting, did participate and fell on the rearguard. She was with that host. They themselves endured great privation in the crossing to Middle Earth. Galadriel desired to rule her own lands and was influenced by Feanor and betrayed by him.
@@OldBillOverHill Some of the Kinslaying was done by those not in Feanor's house, true. However, as the sole princess present among the Noldor, I doubt Galadriel killed anyone. Galadriel was also the granddaughter not just of Finwe, King of the Noldor, but also Olwe, a king of the Sindar. Her father Finarfin abandoned Feanor's cause, along with many of his house. Galadriel herself had no host, unlike her brothers, and she established no realm in Beleriand. When she established a realm in the second age in Lothlorien, it was Sindarin, not Noldorin.
@@billebrooks Well, considering I'm reading the Silmarillion for like the fifth time. I'll not spoil the experience here. My point is SHE was one of the leaders of the rebellion and in that capacity,, complacent.
Feanor was the primary elf responsible for the kin slayings. He was Galadriel's uncle, wasn't he?
Thranduil was a Dark Elf. Elrond was technically the High King of the Noldor in Middle Earth and had the blood of a Maiar, Melian. Galadrial had been to Valinor and was of the house of Finarfin. They also each had an Elven Ring. King or not, Thranduil wasn't in their league.
He was not a Dark Elf. He and Legolas were considered High Elves even though they never went to Valinor. They were Teleri. The Sindar and Nandor Were Dark Elves but Thrandul and his kin were not.
I personally have been a fan of Thranduil since day 1
There's a lot of conjecture here passing as fact (see the many comments below). One thing that is a fact is that no one was 'summoned' to the Council of Elrond. Not by Elrond or anyone else. It is stated quite clearly by Elrond that the people meeting there seemingly arrived by happenstance all at the same time. He suggests that it is not actually by accident but a guiding force arranging that these people all arrive at Imladris at this singular, crucial moment.
We will never know how much communication was between them, Galadriel was telepathic, she didn’t need physical contact or messengers, all she had to do was communicate with him telepathically if she wanted to. It seemed to me like he had his hands full, already dealing with his own kingdom.
This isn’t correct on many points.
Thranduil withdrew and held (defended) his position thereafter.
He *did not "ACTIVELY" oppose Sauron.*
I've given up on ai voice over channels 🙄. My iq takes a beating each time they butcher names and sentence cadence.
J R Tolkien is a better source for Thranduil than P R Jackson, in fact all elves together would sing a lament over the Direction & Production of P R over J R Works.
Thranduil sent Legolas to Rivendale so there was genuine solidarity over anything Sauron
It is sure while attacks on Rohan occurred that assaults upon Morkwood and Erebor and Dale did also.
However I do feel Thranduil could have played a larger role in LOTR, but since his strong magic was not associated with any of the rings J R seems to have avoided all that.
For with the fall of the rings Thranduil would still have a powerful magic that yet again goes untapped by J R in the Fourth Age.
Summation it's not a Galadriel Elrond vs Thranduil thing, it's a magic sorce thing by J R whom set his plot based on ring source magic for even Saruman had a magic ring
Thr magic swords could have developed a more magical source as well
One thing that is usually misinterpreted and misunderstood that does irk me a bit is the blaming of Oropher and Thranduil for the slaughter of their people. Remember, Tolkien fought in WW1. He left plenty of clues in his writings if you look closely. Remember, there was plenty of bigotry and prejudice amongst the elves. Remember where these lightly armored and mostly archers were placed on the battlefield. In the front where you would typically find heavily armored soldiers. If they were to be used effectively, it would have been as flanking highly mobile troops to use them effectively. In essence, they were cannon fodder and they knew it. One of the only ways to escape complete annihilation would be to do something outside of simply waiting like cattle to be slaughtered. War is not kind or genteel. Anyone who has studied military history and strategy, or has been in war knows that sometimes troops are sacrificed because others are deemed more essential. I tend to think that it’s amazing that any from the Great Green Wood survived at all.
Nice video but I think you overlooked how there were initially good relations. But other comments explain it better than me
Galadriel herself was half-Teleri, since her mother, princess Eärwen, was the daughter of Olwë, King of the Teleri in Alqualondë.
Because Galadriel is a niece of the brother of the King of Nargothrond and Elrond is a descendant from Beren and Luthien. So they whre not 100% Noldor. The problem is with the Noldor and especially the Feanoriens like for example Celebrimbor and where closer to the Sindarin elves and both did not participatd at the Kinslayinc of Alqualonde.
This sounds like a script written by an AI
He had a splinter in his shnozzle.
This AI has been schooled by Amazon it seems 😂 there's more wrong than right in this mess
I’m pretty sure he was in contact with his son throughout the events of the 3rd age
In the movies The Hobbit by PJ Director, The Conflict was about The Dwarves had a treasure that belonged to Thranduil The Mirkwood Elven Lord. "Legolas' father".
Tolerate Elrond and Galadriel, both were elves, one lord of Rivendell and the other queen with her husband who was also an elf. Thranduil held no grudge against the elves. It was the Dwarves.
Because he thought they were stubborn.
I do have some questions.
I did not complete the Three Books. (read the Hobbit twice but could have missed something important still).
Q1: You say (in the video) that King Thranduil did not attend the "White Council". Okay, is that the discussion about the ring that began the Fellowship?
Q2: Grudges aside between these Elves and some of the others, If there was a grudge, wasn't Legolas, King Thranduil's son?
I simply don't recall from the Hobitt (book), but It is implied or said in the (cough) movie adaptation.
Q3: Kinda a statement or theory, but I wonder if you could research it for me since I didn't finish Two Towers or Return of the King (books).
I wonder, if the two Rings of Power that both Galadriel and Elrond had on were "removable"?
If not, then they were cursed by Sauron to stay bound to the "One Ring" and would explain some things (in my theory).
It would explain that their "visions" could be intercepted by Sauron in some ways. Maybe not like a direct "text", but through understanding of feelings or dreams where he would figure out over time.
Galadriel used some sort of telepathy to speak to Elrond long distance mind-to-mind and mentioned this in the movie at least.
"The Quest will claim his life (Frodo)..... you have foreseen this....
So what do we do? (about Rohan) .... do we let them fight alone? " (She sent her Leading commander while Elrond supplied the troops to back up Helm's Deep).
If the two Elves KNEW that Sauron was eavesdropping even a little... they could manipulate some things but they'd also have to cover for some things (like no revealing Frodo's secret mission to destroy the Ring).
Point is, does the Two Towers and Return of the King (books), cover this in any detail at all?
I'd still also like to know more about Legolas' relationship with Thranduil. Father/son? Or did something happen?
I know "Tameral" was fictionalized for the film.... so that would not turn them against each other assuming they were Father/son.
Either something else or Legolas volunteered or was sent.
I didn't even get to the point in the Book "Fellowship" where Legolas was introduced.
I'm assuming if the two Rings of Power were bound to Elrond and Galadriel then their power was gone once the "One Ring" was destroyed.
As they mentioned at the end of the RoK movie at the Grey Haven
Although she did mention THREE Rings (one was with her husband if I am correct, and he didn't have much of a role in the films).
Thanks in advance for reading this
Galadriel fought alongside the Teleri AGAINST the Noldor at the Kinslaying in Alqualonde. Galadriel was half Teleri through her mother's line.
Galadriel was the triple royal, as she was a born princess of the Noldor and Telerians, but also was related to the Vanyar royals. Elrond was not only the direct heir by blood of Thingol, He was a born prince of the Noldor, as well. His daddy was heir of a Noldo King , and was one of the most bad assed Elven heroes of all time Eärendil!
So one of the reasons for the friction? Jealous much?
Name pronunciations all over the place in this video.
Another AI "narrator"...
Gabriel is literally married to a Sindar elf, isn't she? You even say it yourself at the end of the video.
Elrond is the heir to the king of the sindar
No Legolas was Thranduil's heir not Elrond
@@BubbleOnPlumb Elrond is great grandson of Elu Thingol, King of the Doriath (and of all Sindar)
@@BubbleOnPlumb Elu was Thranduil's liege lord, ergo he'd owe allegiance to Elrond
Elrond and Elros where have partial descended of all the Houses of the Elves including Human and Ainur Elrond is destined to rule
Galadriel was part Teleri
Well, Thranduil was definitely not your average elf, arrogant, aggressive, but also an elf king, powerful and with a sense of responsibility. Since there aren't even any scenes with him and Galadriel in the books and films, why should he be enemies with her? If they had met, the Queen of Lorien would have quickly softened him up.
To be honest, I was hoping that there would be such a meeting in the third part of The Hobbit. At the meeting in Rivendell in The Lord of the Rings, Legolas appears as his father's emissary, so Thranduil at least had diplomatic relations with Elrond and his people.
Ins the hobbit wasn't it thranduil who came and helped galadriel, not sarumon and elrond...
As far as I know, Celeborn is pronounced kel eh born not sel eh born. Thanks for the video.
Because he had the best hair and biggest...elk.
"Galadriel did not participate in the kinslaying because she did not have time...." Say what?? And that whole, "Galadriel's kin slayed the the Teleri." It would be more appropriate to say, "Galadriel's kin slayed her other kin, and she fought on the side of the Teleri in that battle." So much bad information in just the first few minutes. I could not finish it.
.... not quite
You say family ties mean everything to Thranduil. You do know that Elrond is a legit DIRECT descendant of Thingol. If anything he should be bowing to him as his “king” if family ties and blood lines means so much. He wasn’t a part of the white council because that was for the wise and he wasn’t one of the wise straight and simple. He wasn’t a high elf or an enlightened one. He “tolerated” Galadriel and Elrond because they were far more powerful and wise and better connected than he was. Thranduil is a great character in his own right but you’re not making much sense if you read the books.
That’s funny. I thought Elrond and Galadriel to be arrogant, and here it is: they were. The Noldor were, at least.
Whereas Thranduil always seemed to me as a holder of the true first principles. In The Hobbit movies at least, apparently that aspect was reinforced. For me, that one thing made him more real to me than Elrond ever managed. Thranduil had seen true, if bitter, life.
He never got a ring, I imagine he would’ve refused one or any altogether.
Bad pronunciation bro😊
Wasn't Celeborn king of Lithlorien?
Not really, they we're the rulers but refused the titles king and queen
Amroth was the last king of the golden woods, and also a Sindar
This is the worst AI voice and pronunciation I've ever heard. And it's Keleborn, not Seleborn!!
Elrond and Galadriel had royal blood...Thranduil was a nobody.
That "Nobody" actually did fight in a battle (even 3- in the Battle of Dagorlad, in Hobbit, then in LotR: War in the North) and helped Humans. And what did the great Lady Galadriel do? Housed the Hobbits, gave them trinkets, and waved "goodbye".
It is NOT the ancestors that made someone a great ruler, but their own abilities. Both had those abilities, but somehow because Thranduil doesn't have a "pedigree", he is somehow lower than Noldorian elves simply "just because"...
Galadriel is overrated while Thranduil- underestimated.
@@paulinarapicka You say that because you don't know that she helped beat back three attacks on Lothlorien and destroyed Dol Guldur... by herself.