No spring looks more like the real thing. I am still in the process of laying the track but will be using micro servos with spring removed. Great video, thanks.
The over centre spring is there to keep the blade hard up against the stock rail. This is when no point motor is used, or a solenoid motor is used. The solenoid motor only activities when power is applied without the spring the blade would not stay up against the stock rail. When using stall motors like the Tortoise power is constant, that's what keeps the blade up against the rail. If you keep the spring in the motor is having to overcome the pressure of the spring, which over time will damage the motor. Sorry if that was a bit long winded!
There is an advantage to having the spring removed in that it can now function as a spring switch. This is very common on trolley lines. For example, a streetcar or tram will enter a turnback loop on the tangent move. The switch will stay in the normal position. Upon leaving the loop, the tram will spring the switch while leaving the reverse curve, pushing or springing the points which will then spring back to the normal position.
I like the sound because I have a few switches that I can't see and if I don't hear it switch then I don't know how it is lined and when I derail on those switches its on the back side of the layout and hard to get to.
My N scale layout uses all snappers. I use a mechanical link that I came up with that operates the points so the over centering snap helps hold the blade against the stock rail. I also solder wires underneath to help conductivity.
Lawrence a few like the snapping action but more seem to not like it. But everyone has there idea on how it should be and i don't mind both cheers Robert
@@csxmad If I had an HO or OO layout I would take out the springs and use the Tortoise machines ( I have them operating crossing gates) . My wiring system looks like a bowl of multicoloured spaghetti as it is so I'd just as soon keep the wiring simple. My mechanical link does work well.
Hi Robert, I feel it is better without the spring. You don’t hear prototypical points going ‘snap’ when they change, so I will cut mine as they were in place before the motor. Graham Regional victoria
I've left the springs in on my Peco code 100 rails Rob. I found the point blades moved away from the closure rails (where the pivot is) when I removed the spring. The spring was holding the blades tight against the closure rail. I don't really care if they snap or not, I'm not that much of a purist! Purist's would say that you shouldn't use code 100 rail cause it's to big. Rather enjoy the hobby than count rivets. Cheers Mate.
Richard depends on how well you have the centre spring lined up as well but i also don't mind the snap sound. And everyone has there idea's as well and i'm no Purist as well, i always seem to do it my way more often than not lol cheers Robert
Hi Robert Great video, 90% of my Peco turnouts are "No Snap" (spring removed) with Tortoise Switch machines, I also use Electrofrog switches, never had a problem. Some of my sidings have Insulfrog switches (10%) and on these I leave the spring in, (for better electrical contact) just personal taste I guess. Either way Peco and Tortoise are a great combination. Gary
No snap - seems more prototypical without. I think the only advantage with the spring (and the snap) is that if you are not using any sort of switch machine, it ensures the moving part of the track stays secure against the fixed rail, preventing derailments. Redundant with you have a switch machine. Thanks for the video
The snap or the no snap ! ! That is the question! ! Very informative video.. I prefer no snap since when I'm next to a real switch I dont hear a snap when it gets thrown.
That was very informative Robert! I think I get it now. As I build mine it looks like snaps for now as I throw switches by hand, then cut the spring as I install and gain confidence in my switch controllers. Cheers, Dan
The spring is there for solenoid motors that have no means of keeping the tie bar pushed across. With a gear driven motor it just increases the power that you need and makes that unrealistic click. because
I notice that when you change direction of the turnout, the track arm closest to bottom of screen, bends and the leading edge lifts slightly of the side rail, dose this cause any problems with wheel catch? I previously had some peco turnouts that refused to operate correctly owing to the spring pressure being to hard, it stopped the turnout switching with the motor, they did work ok manually, pity I hadn't seen this blog then, would have saved me a few dollars replacing turnouts.
Mark thanks for commenting but i see what you mean, and i haven't had any derailments on this turnout. But i wonder if the wire from the switch machine is not completely centre, this could cause this but it seems to run ok cheers Robert
Great video and great information. Not using "tourtise" to throw switches, but don't like the click if you have a machine throwing the switch. All of my switches are manual throws so the click does not bother me and let's me know it's thrown and seated. Thanks Robert for the video. D. Muse WTCMRR
Good video Robert, I use the DCC Concepts version of the motor which is virtually identical and so you have the choice of snap or no snap. I opted for no snap and so took all the springs out to give that more realistic movement. But (and this is just me) I wish I had left some of them in as in very remote areas it is nice to hear the reassuring 'clunk' that the point has actually changed and is set for the correct direction. Your Tortoise motors are so much better than my DCC Concept motors which are total crap and unreliable so if I were to use what you are using then I would go for no snap. .........Graham
Graham i have never used the Cobalt switch machine so i can't comment on that one. And i can see why some leave the springs in for the one's they can't see and the snapping sounds help them out by hearing them. But by the comments the no snap wins this one cheers Robert
Hey Robert! Thanks for posting this. I'm not partial to the sound (snap or no snap) but was curious whether you've noticed whether leaving the spring in caused more wear on the switch machines. I do think that the motion looks more realistic without the spring. Thanks for the shout out as well!! Take care! - Brian
I think I like it better without the snap. Do the tortoise switch machines have additional terminals so you could use a momentary push button and get the switch position indicated by two separate led's ? Like green for normal and red for diverging ? Great video as usual thanks.
hi Robert... i have read Graham & Richards comment they both have valid points (no pun intended) my Micro Engineering turnouts have springs that i am removing.. so no snap for me... vinny
hard to say really. no snap in turnouts that you can see, but maybe the snap sound on say a turn out that is out of reach and sight, just so you know it has changed fully
on my N Scale layout, there are some isolated #6 Peco turnouts that are manually operated using model aircraft control wire inside a plastic tube. It has a 90 deg bend to go up into the turnout but extends along the underside of the deck glued with hot glue. Took ten minutes and works great. Really like the snap action and positive closure of the points with the spring.
Just watched your video. It will hopefully help me solve a problem with a sticky Peco turnout that won't snap over. Will first try some Kadee Greasem to lubricate the throwbar. If that doesn't work will then cut the spring wire to release the tension.
I hope you solve your problems also one to check is to make sure the spring is dead centre, if it's not then this problem will also happen or make sure the hole is big enough to throw left and right. And one more would be to move the fulcrum up or down to give more pressure on the throw cheers Robert
I was running my finger over the rails of my switch one day and in doing so, felt a real nice sharp thing poke me in the finger.. Expecting to find a smooth even rail on one side of my (PECO) Switch, My finger sent a reflex response to my brain in turn, made me pull my hand away immediately... "What the...." was my first response. I ran my finger over it again figuring there was a stray track nail protruding out of the ties only to find that it was something else but wasn't expecting it to be the end of the "Snap Spring" from the switch protruding out of the rail tie instead. I grabbed it with the needle nose pliers and pulled it out like a tape worm out of a slab of beef... Then at that time, I realized I just removed the "SNAP" spring from my PECO Switch. But I'm glad I did because I don't like the snapping action it makes when turning the switch over.
No spring looks more like the real thing. I am still in the process of laying the track but will be using micro servos with spring removed. Great video, thanks.
Yes most people do remove the springs, and good luck with your servos cheers Robert
If it’s powered, no snap.
I have all of my peco switches manual and I love the snap because I trust that the switch is thrown
Thanks for commenting and it's good to get everyone's feed back cheers Robert
Great upgrade Robert. Taking the spring out really makes the movement smooth and it also look much more prototypical.
Thanks Darren and most people seem to agree cheers Robert
The over centre spring is there to keep the blade hard up against the stock rail. This is when no point motor is used, or a solenoid motor is used. The solenoid motor only activities when power is applied without the spring the blade would not stay up against the stock rail. When using stall motors like the Tortoise power is constant, that's what keeps the blade up against the rail. If you keep the spring in the motor is having to overcome the pressure of the spring, which over time will damage the motor. Sorry if that was a bit long winded!
Well said and nothing like a bit long winded lol cheers Robert
csxmad It would have been easier to put up a video. But get those springs out! 😊
Snapping is for fingers, towels, waistbands and peas. No snapping on switches! Thanks for the instruction!!
Like your answer James and most do as well cheers Robert
There is an advantage to having the spring removed in that it can now function as a spring switch. This is very common on trolley lines. For example, a streetcar or tram will enter a turnback loop on the tangent move. The switch will stay in the normal position. Upon leaving the loop, the tram will spring the switch while leaving the reverse curve, pushing or springing the points which will then spring back to the normal position.
Thanks for the info cheers Robert
I like the sound because I have a few switches that I can't see and if I don't hear it switch then I don't know how it is lined and when I derail on those switches its on the back side of the layout and hard to get to.
Jaw Tooth most people here are saying that as well so the snap and no snap seem to be the go cheers Robert
I took the spring out and thank you for your comment on my help video but im still having problems
Dwight this will help
ua-cam.com/video/TRllq2f5Mjs/v-deo.html
Good video Robert! I wasn't sure why you were removing the snap, but the end result was much better. I like the no snap look. -Mark
Thanks Mark and it was interesting to see who liked which one cheers Robert
My N scale layout uses all snappers. I use a mechanical link that I came up with that operates the points so the over centering snap helps hold the blade against the stock rail. I also solder wires underneath to help conductivity.
Lawrence a few like the snapping action but more seem to not like it.
But everyone has there idea on how it should be and i don't mind both cheers Robert
@@csxmad If I had an HO or OO layout I would take out the springs and use the Tortoise machines ( I have them operating crossing gates) . My wiring system looks like a bowl of multicoloured spaghetti as it is so I'd just as soon keep the wiring simple. My mechanical link does work well.
If your using tortoise machines the no spring is more proto functioning for sure. if you are using manulas or finger switching springs are great
Hi Robert, I feel it is better without the spring. You don’t hear prototypical points going ‘snap’ when they change, so I will cut mine as they were in place before the motor.
Graham
Regional victoria
I agree Graham cheers Robert
I've left the springs in on my Peco code 100 rails Rob. I found the point blades moved away from the closure rails (where the pivot is) when I removed the spring. The spring was holding the blades tight against the closure rail. I don't really care if they snap or not, I'm not that much of a purist! Purist's would say that you shouldn't use code 100 rail cause it's to big. Rather enjoy the hobby than count rivets. Cheers Mate.
Richard depends on how well you have the centre spring lined up as well but i also don't mind the snap sound.
And everyone has there idea's as well and i'm no Purist as well, i always seem to do it my way more often than
not lol cheers Robert
Hi Robert
Great video, 90% of my Peco turnouts are "No Snap" (spring removed) with Tortoise Switch machines, I also use Electrofrog switches, never had a problem.
Some of my sidings have Insulfrog switches (10%) and on these I leave the spring in, (for better electrical contact) just personal taste I guess.
Either way Peco and Tortoise are a great combination.
Gary
Gary thanks and the no snap seems to have one this battle but like you said
a Peco and Tortoise are great cheers Robert
I do like the snapping sound, especially for manual
Yes a lot of people like the snapping sound cheers Robert
For manual it’s almost a must. I trust it. You know it’s grown because you can hear it
No snap - seems more prototypical without. I think the only advantage with the spring (and the snap) is that if you are not using any sort of switch machine, it ensures the moving part of the track stays secure against the fixed rail, preventing derailments. Redundant with you have a switch machine. Thanks for the video
Ken i think your right, if you don't use a switch machine you should leave it as is cheers Robert
My personal preference is to leave the spring intact as then I know and can hear that the switch has been moved from one side to the other.
Yes the spring sounds doe's help to know that it has switched cheers
The snap or the no snap ! ! That is the question! ! Very informative video.. I prefer no snap since when I'm next to a real switch I dont hear a snap when it gets thrown.
John most people here seem to have your opinion cheers Robert
That was very informative Robert! I think I get it now. As I build mine it looks like snaps for now as I throw switches by hand, then cut the spring as I install and gain confidence in my switch controllers. Cheers, Dan
Dan this seems to be the way to go but as you said leave the springs in until you have switch machines cheers Robert
Good Vid Robert , l took all the spring out on my one's as well cheers Ron
Ron seems most people do this with out the springs cheers Robert
The spring is there for solenoid motors that have no means of keeping the tie bar pushed across. With a gear driven motor it just increases the power that you need and makes that unrealistic click. because
Thanks Alan cheers Robert
I notice that when you change direction of the turnout, the track arm closest to bottom of screen, bends and the leading edge lifts slightly of the side rail, dose this cause any problems with wheel catch? I previously had some peco turnouts that refused to operate correctly owing to the spring pressure being to hard, it stopped the turnout switching with the motor, they did work ok manually, pity I hadn't seen this blog then, would have saved me a few dollars replacing turnouts.
Mark thanks for commenting but i see what you mean, and i haven't had any derailments on this turnout.
But i wonder if the wire from the switch machine is not completely centre, this could cause this but it seems
to run ok cheers Robert
I do the same thing to my Peco switches as well
Good video Thanks for sharing
Cheers Ron
Thanks Ron and we seem to be all in the same boat lol cheers Robert
Great video and great information. Not using "tourtise" to throw switches, but don't like the click if you have a machine throwing the switch. All of my switches are manual throws so the click does not bother me and let's me know it's thrown and seated.
Thanks Robert for the video. D. Muse WTCMRR
David the spring is ok when not using switch machine and no need to do it with manual throws cheers Robert
Hi I have to admit its much more life like with out the spring too much snapping going on I prefer it the way you had it brilliant. from Dave Horton
Thanks for your suggestion and i'm with you cheers Robert
Good video Robert, I use the DCC Concepts version of the motor which is virtually identical and so you have the choice of snap or no snap. I opted for no snap and so took all the springs out to give that more realistic movement. But (and this is just me) I wish I had left some of them in as in very remote areas it is nice to hear the reassuring 'clunk' that the point has actually changed and is set for the correct direction. Your Tortoise motors are so much better than my DCC Concept motors which are total crap and unreliable so if I were to use what you are using then I would go for no snap. .........Graham
Graham i have never used the Cobalt switch machine so i can't comment on that one. And i can see why some leave the springs in for the one's
they can't see and the snapping sounds help them out by hearing them. But by the comments the no snap wins this one cheers Robert
I like it without the snap. its more realistic. another great video.
Thanks for commenting and most people here like the no snap cheers Robert
Hey Robert! Thanks for posting this. I'm not partial to the sound (snap or no snap) but was curious whether you've noticed whether leaving the spring in caused more wear on the switch machines. I do think that the motion looks more realistic without the spring. Thanks for the shout out as well!! Take care! - Brian
Brian as far as i know from past experience the spring has not worn the switch machine out.
And also i think the motion looks better cheers Robert
I think I like it better without the snap. Do the tortoise switch machines have additional terminals so you could use a momentary push button and get the switch position indicated by two separate led's ? Like green for normal and red for diverging ? Great video as usual thanks.
Paul yes you can do this with the switch machines and they will change colour from red to green cheers Robert
I never considered this, but it make sense. I expect it is more "prototypical" without the snap, right?
George that is what a lot of people say but a lot still go the other way cheers Robert
Can I still use peco point motors with no spring in the point ?
Yes you can cheers Robert
What is more prototypical? Presumably no snap
Yes you are right cheers Robert
It make sense of fit not to snap. It looks better and easier on the turnouts.
Joe i agree cheers Robert
A good idea , think a lot do this as they can be a bit on the strong side ..dave
David most people think this is the way to go cheers Robert
👍🏽
I prefer the snap as there is a possibility of better conectivity
Graham thanks for your comment cheers Robert
hi Robert... i have read Graham & Richards comment they both have valid points (no pun intended) my Micro Engineering turnouts have springs that i am removing.. so no snap for me... vinny
Vinny this has been an interesting topic and like most the snap is the loser, but not saying
it is the one to go for tho cheers Robert
hard to say really. no snap in turnouts that you can see, but maybe the snap sound on say a turn out that is out of reach and sight, just so you know it has changed fully
Sparky a lot of people seem to like the snap in the turnouts that they can't see cheers Robert
Where can I buy the peco turnouts on the internet?
Cheapest place so far I have found is midwestmodelrr.com
Also you could try E-Bay cheers Robert
Thank you. Good day.
Nice and smooth without
More realistic
Thanks and most people agree with you cheers
Hi, I prefer no snap, thanks Jack
Jack thanks for your input and most people here seem to lean to the no springs cheers Robert
Good video mate! No snap for me.
Thanks John and no snap is the winner cheers Robert
I grew up with snap but I prefer no snap.
Austin i am the same no snap
on my N Scale layout, there are some isolated #6 Peco turnouts that are manually operated using model aircraft control wire inside a plastic tube. It has a 90 deg bend to go up into the turnout but extends along the underside of the deck glued with hot glue. Took ten minutes and works great. Really like the snap action and positive closure of the points with the spring.
Smart idea using a aircraft wire control cheers Robert
Just watched your video. It will hopefully help me solve a problem with a sticky Peco turnout that won't snap over. Will first try some Kadee Greasem to lubricate the throwbar. If that doesn't work will then cut the spring wire to release the tension.
I hope you solve your problems also one to check is to make sure the spring is dead centre,
if it's not then this problem will also happen or make sure the hole is big enough to throw
left and right. And one more would be to move the fulcrum up or down to give more pressure
on the throw cheers Robert
no snap... great tip thanks
Thanks and no snap has the support cheers Robert
No snap. This will make the motor work less and be more proto.
Scott yes you are right less tension on the motor cheers Robert
i prefer the snapping sound
Thanks for your comment cheers Robert
I was running my finger over the rails of my switch one day and in doing so, felt a real nice sharp thing poke me in the finger.. Expecting to find a smooth even rail on one side of my (PECO) Switch, My finger sent a reflex response to my brain in turn, made me pull my hand away immediately... "What the...." was my first response. I ran my finger over it again figuring there was a stray track nail protruding out of the ties only to find that it was something else but wasn't expecting it to be the end of the "Snap Spring" from the switch protruding out of the rail tie instead. I grabbed it with the needle nose pliers and pulled it out like a tape worm out of a slab of beef... Then at that time, I realized I just removed the "SNAP" spring from my PECO Switch. But I'm glad I did because I don't like the snapping action it makes when turning the switch over.
Will now that is one way of finding out that you don't like the snapping sound lol cheers Robert
The snap sounds to violent prefer no snap
Thanks for the comment and most people agree with you cheers Robert
No snap for me.
Thanks Mack and this seems to be the winner cheers Robert
no snap
And no snap wins the topic cheers Robert
thx
Thanks Jennifer cheers Robert
There's no point to my ears/eyes in buying an expensive Cobalt/Tortoise motor rather than a solenoid, and leaving the spring in.
Thanks for your input John cheers Robert
I took all my springs out with tortise motors works better looks more realistic
I agree cheers
Not a lot of difference sound wise.
Thanks for commenting cheers robert
no spring, no sound = good
Terry i think you are right but some don't cheers Robert
I'd go without the snapping sound.
Most people here are with you on this topic cheers Robert