Which has better stopping power Rim Brake vs Disc Brake - Rim Brake of course!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- 5945
Jessica’s Stava
/ strava
George's Strava
/ strava
Fueled by REV Energy. Order yours at:
www.revenduran...
epictrain.me/c...
www.revenduran...
Jessica's Instagram
/ jesster04
George's Instagram
/ revcycling
Rim brakes works really good with aluminium rim!! My favorite wheelset is dura-Ace c24. Durian rider will love this video for sure.
I love the C24! The only knock I have on them over the HED wheels is they are still old school narrow inner/exterior width. But man are they sweet! The hubs and steel bearings are silk!
Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
Regarding Durian Rider - if he ever sees this video “Rim for Road Disc for Dirt” 😊
they work exactly as good with carbon wheels - you only need the right pads. Campagnolo red pads are the best
100% agree with you George. If you have correct pads with the right surface roughness on your rims, stiff dual pivot calipers, no issue. And don't forget proper cables and hoses. Most of people don't do proper maintenance with there bikes so at the end, yes, with dry pads and stucked cables you have no brakes! Even on wet when you are used to them, you anticipate and no issues. A friend felt in front of me blocking his rear wheel due to too much brake power with disc brakes on a wet road...so safety with discs in emergency situations...And I don't speak of the terrific sound of disc pads under rain.
I don't understand why people are so brake focused, I have more difficulties to climb than brake in the descents😅. No issue also in fast descents with my 45 years old randonneuse with Mafac 2000 center pull brakes. I still find new pads for this bike so I don't think we will run out of parts for our modern rim bikes before a long long time...
So let them think discs are better, I continue with my rim bikes.
I've had multiple real panic brakes with rims to the point that I was balancing on the front wheel and I had to throw my ass to the back to prevent me from flipping over. Enough stopping power, kept me safe for multiple decades. Always did the job, no complaints. We have to wait for this to turn around again.
Yep insane amount of stopping power with rim brakes. And yes always throw your weight to the rear of the bike when panic braking.
Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad done.
Pretty much agree. AND...Alloy rim brake wheels can be light and inexpensive when bought used. Same for rim brake sets. IMO, one could buy a competitive rim-braked road bike for Cat 5/4 racing on Craig's List for $1000-2500 easily, way less then the egregiously expensive new bikes for sale today. For sure, in the road racing I did, I pretty much never panic-braked, just slight braking for corners if at all. Rarely braked hard for crashes in front, mostly just steered out of the way ... or crashed. :-) Braking hard in a peloton causes all kinds of chaos behind. Same for group training rides. Same for city streets. Being a CA resident, I didn't every ride in the rain or snow. So, those who do may have different experiences.
Generally I agree with this, yes. A lot of the issue is with the cable housing. Get compressionless housing, and you will have even *stronger* rim brakes! 160mm and smaller discs are rather pathetic, it's true. This is the whole reason behind people now going to quad piston calipers (even for XC). What can I say? I much prefer rim brakes for on road (for one thing it's lighter, but it also looks much better, arguably easier to maintain also, no need for liquids). Rim brakes are like 26" or 27" sized-discs, so yeah.
This is why I don't like the way the industry is going. Electronic shifting, the whole thing. Don't get me started on 1x either as the jumps between teeth are HORRIBLE. Much more closely spaced rear gears if you opt for a double/triple setup.
I have two road bikes one disc/one rim, disc are heavy & noisy, calipers with my aluminum rim work great.
Thanks for watching Aaron!
My carbon rim brake wheels have more than enough stopping power, if i can lock them up i don't need more power
Awesome! Thank you for watching !
I can lock my wheels and skid to a stop on my carbon rim brake wheels. And even in pouring rain, I can lock the wheels, if I'm in the drops.
I use Giant SLR brake pads... I think they're $30 CDN for the pair (front and back), and my aluminium bike is stiff!!!
no problems whatsoever on my carbon clincher rim brakes! i don't care braking in the wet, just don't like riding in the rain. 20000km on them alpine roads, french alp is where i live and ride my bike(s) mostly. still plenty of life on my rims. cheers.
What carbon wheels do you run?
@@tommyfreckmann6857 custom wheels on gigantex rims, acros19 hubs and pilar wing spokes
George, I love you. That said, I’m an old school kid, born in 79. I’m also not a ‘true roadie’, I grew up on the mountains of Northern California, rim brakes were sketchy at best then, not non serviceable, just sketchy. Disc brakes changed the game on the mountain, and technically now, in the streets. Like I said, my opinion is worth a red cent but I’m still gunna leave it here. As an overall braking system, disc rules, situationally??? well we can always find a win where we want.
Very few had carbon rims back around 2008/2010 when I started riding events. Nearly everyone had alloy rims because carbon rims were ridiculously expensive. No cheap options around. Then around 2012/2014 with cheap chinese carbon rims which looked cool and were affordable, everyone wanted carbon clinchers. Which were crap in terms of braking compared with the alloy rims everyone was using just a few yrs before. Plus the de-lamination issues of carbon especially with the older non-heat stable resins(I've delaminated 2 wheels). So then they bought in disc brakes as the solution for the crappy carbon rims people were having trouble with. So you have a good product, then bring in an inferior one. Then pretend all rim brakes are bad, which just isn't true.
Old school rider here agreeing with rim brakes.
Was also looking for a venue to vent about the asthetics of modern bikes with the overemphasis on the carbon effect. You go into a bike shop and you see a dark blob of bikes. No distinction, maybe the Bianci stands out. Even Look who used to paint their bikes is now black with some cheap looking stickers for the Mondrian effect.
It is time for shiny spokes on colourful bikes to make a comeback!!
Old man shouts at the carbon.
Correct the ugliness of carbon bikes has just gotten too much for me as well. I shot a video recently about the difference between a lovely round tubed steel bike and a full aero Tri bike. Luckily it is not black lol
I'm sure you would love either of my Tommasini bikes. I have a Columbus XCR stainless steel bike high polished unpainted. And a Tommasini Tecno with chrome lugs, chromed fork and chrome seat/chainstays. Here are all the links
Let me know what you think
round tube vs Tri bike ua-cam.com/video/KbLiTQGYNf0/v-deo.html
Tommasini X-Fire
ua-cam.com/video/fRxhk-dWNc4/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/jMuk9es76ho/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/9qAy0aopzl8/v-deo.htmlsi=j6scgIKsDIZ2gu_2
ua-cam.com/video/DivCzfc4y9k/v-deo.htmlsi=2QlhAopKrtPPBkoQ
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad That XCR Tommasini is beautiful.
It really feels like nostalgia talking about steel bikes, mechanical groupsets and rim brakes when you think the majority of the audience agree with the marketing done for new bikes. I've seen people praise bikes like Ventum but I look at them and think there is no there, there.
The pursuit of tidiness has its price because now there is no jewellery to adorn the bike. Cables for example used to come in many colours to match whatever, bar tape too, and of course spokes glittered in the sun.
My 2 cents: The Tommasini looked better with the honey coloured Brooks. Continental does tyres with side walls that are closer in colour to the Brooks. And silver spokes, lol!
Thanks for your output.
I have used both and held out a long time before buying a road bike with disc brakes. Nothing beats the bite of rim brakes on alloy.rims. Just look at the surface area of the braking surface vs tiny discs. I do find that disc brakes provide more consistent performance in all types of weather compared to rim brakes.
Def agree here
As long as you have enough force to lock the wheels the tyres are the real brake. Modern carbon wheels pad are decent in the wet as well where you don't brake that hard anyway because the road is slippery. Bernal won a giro descending in the wet with carbon rims
You are correct! Tire and tire traction are far more important than the braking system. Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
I live and ride both mountain and road bikes where there are many many big game animals near the road, moose, elk and mostly deer. They are usually hidden enough that you don't see them when they emerge from the trees. No matter how practiced you are at safe braking, proper technique and all that when anything from a small deer to a very large moose steps or trots out in front of you it can make you sometimes brake a little harder than you should. This is when I am riding on asphalt. My old Klein with rim brakes stops beautifully, controlled, no locking up. I have a newer road bike with disc brakes and it's too easy to lock that thing up and skid (bad on a corner) so in my case I think it's safer to ride rim brakes. Just my lousy opinion.
rim for road, disc for dirt, 95% of cyclists will not ride in the rain so that whole debate is irreverent
Rim for Road Disc for Dirt! Why ride in the rain? I only do it on race day because you have to. Thanks for watching. Please consider subscribing
@@SeeYouUpTheRoadif you live in a country when it rains a lot no choice 😂 welcome to the hell of the north in France 😂
I was so lucky when I did Paris Brest Paris in August 2023 and it didn’t rain for the 3 days 😂 just 90-95F the 10 days I was in Paris.
Coward. Defend your disc brake purchase to the grave! 😂
I live in Asia, where it rains all summer often unexpectedly. So I ride in the rain, whether I want to or not.
My rim brakes always sucked in the wet, especially on steeper terrain. (All my wheels are alloy).
Discs are light years better.
In a dry, desert climate, its a different story.
The answer is as always...It depends.
For rim brake, it depends on the wheel rim - I have HED Black and Campy WTO45's - both brake exceptionally well. However, tire clearance is limited to 30mm. And I cannot run Campy rim brake calipers because their tire size limit is 28mm, so I use Ultegra calipers with my full Campy groupset.
My disc brake bike can fit up to 38mm tires. When I was younger, I could ride narrow tires at high pressures all day long. Because I was younger and the roads were better.
But at age 64 and now riding on really rough concrete roads, I need that extra tire width and ability to run lower pressures, and disc brakes afford that option.
I still ride both bikes, both are tubeless, just for different purposes. Rim for shorter rides and racing, Disc for longer rides or previously untraveled roads.
So a person saying one is "better" would only reveal that persons inexperience with various road conditions. And saying one system brakes better or worse is only applicable to the specific bike build being ridden.
It depends is the factor. Saying that someone has inexperience doesn’t compensate for ability. Your 64, Memo is presumably younger (if he’s not than kudos to him he looks amazing for 64), he may be inexperienced but he probably has a greater ability. I’m 35, I started racing bmx when I was 5 thinking I could be Crew Jones (RAD movie reference) I go to the track now, and I have much greater experience but the ability of a 17 year old with testosterone levels that could kill a horse trumps my experience 8 out of 10 times. What we do to compensate for how our body feels doesn’t change the properties of physics and if the limiting factors of rim brakes being that they can only except 30mm tires (for the most part) is your limitation. Others success is not your failure, don’t confuse them.
Shout out to this self-described "newby" who I guarantee rides farther and faster than 95% of the viewers watching this. Nice guy, local legend, and way too humble! The rim brake thing is old news, but what we really NEED to know is whether the red Ritchey is better than the gray Ritchey...
Ha Ha! Love your sense of humor! The Sallys Macaroons is about the same but fits a wider tire in the fork so that's got to be worth something :-) Thanks for watching!
I’ve been a fan of disc brakes. Now I’m ordering a custom made steel frame for rim brakes because I don’t like the maintenance and the alignment issues with disc brakes. So I also think that rim brakes are totally fine. And there is no need for disc brakes at least in the dry.
However…this was not a test. Just a feeling. Not same speed, not same position, no measuring of braking distance…Is just a feeling of one single rider with not much expertise (according to him). That has no statistical relevance 😉
This is real life and unscripted. When a car door opens up on you or a car pulls out of a driveway there is no set speed you are going to be going no set distance or reaction time that can be measured you just have to brake or eat shit lol! We can do all that "science stuff" but I don't think it's worth all the time an effort to come to the same conclusion -- The rim brake will work better 🙂
But I get what you are saying and channels like GCN which are shills for disc brakes have done the science stuff comparing rim to disc.
Thanks for watching I appreciate the dialog 🙂
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad your bro-science approach is really what is needed in the bike industry, where the producers are just trying to sell everything with foggy marginal gains claims. You want to compare disc and rim brakes? take one slope, two bike as close as possible to each other in geometry, same tires at the same pressure and both tubeless or tubed. Ideally also the same rider. Start rolling down the hill, get to the same speed and start braking from the same point. Repeat each test at least 10 times, 20 would be better. 30 would be ideal. So that you get the time to get used to the braking system, and you have enough observations to reduce your standard error. Then take the average of the braking distances and compare. There will always be a difference, but the point is if the difference is statistically significant. With 30 measurements each you have enough data to run a t-test and check if the difference in the means of the braking distance is actually significant or not. And you can repeat this on the wet as well.
Only then, you can say which braking system is better. All the rest, is just an opinion. But the comparison will only be valid for that specific model of caliper rim and braking track and also only for that disc brake caliper, and disc. Yes, the tire traction is the limiting factor in all braking systems, but the modulation you can get also affects how well and how fast you can brake. And actually, in the comparison above there was no account for how the rider is used to rim or discs. Being unfamiliar with one of the two systems will of course result in biased results.
The whole discussion about maintenance is also very valid, but it really boils down to personal preference. And also there, some disc braking systems are easier to maintain than others
I'm a (very) small bespoke, made-to-measure performance bicycles maker, based in the Pyrénées. Mountains, hills, sometimes foggy weather, etc. If you watch Le Tour de France, you know what I'm talking about. Guess what: Our 2 Road models (1 steel frame, 1 tube-to-tube carbon frame) are rim brakes only (TriRig Omega One), and we also have an Allroad bike with rim brakes (up to 700x30c tires). All alloy rims wheels. We do disc brakes on the Gravel models, only because of the tire clearance (although a good pair of V-brakes calipers would do the job perfectly).
@@MarcDuchesne I want to know more about your company!
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Thanks ! Ping your email in a couple of minutes ;-)
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Ping your email !
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Have you got my email?
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad See Royal Asport Cycleworks.
I love the way you are grilling the poor guy! 😂
But massive respect to him for admitting your bike was better, because I don’t know anyone who drops $30k on a pino bike and would admit they just wasted their money. 🤷🏻♂️
I watched this with a smug grin on my face, because like you George I’m right about this stuff and we hardly ever get to hear it outside our own heads. So it’s a real pleasure when finally we get 1 more person to realise what we have known for years.
However, I must disagree with you on carbon rims in the wet. You need to change your statement slightly: “carbon rims (from 6-8 years ago) are terrible in the wet, they are dangerous and they just don’t work. (But modern carbon rims that were abandoned in favour of disc are perfectly safe in the wet.)”
What am i talking about? Well I’ve been riding a lot in the wet recently on my Winspace Hyper wheels and I’m honestly astonished how good they are… and this is going to sound insane, believe me i wouldn’t even trust myself if I hadn’t tried them… but, they are better than aluminium wheels. 😳 I know it’s nuts and it’s impossible, but it’s true. I was riding on roads that were half and inch deep in surface water and I had perfectly breaking, without any noticeable delay, excellent feedback and 100% powerful response. I never thought it possible and it breaks my heart to know that this is what we gave up for discs. 😢 Get your hands on some new/used hypers and try them with the correct pads if you can! 🤩
@@reginaldscot165 wow! I had no idea the Hypers would be that good! I appreciate the knowledge. We can all learn something from someone daily.
Cheers mate
DT Swiss PR1400 dicut/Swiss Blue pads, rain or shine……These are equivalent to the HED Black alloy. Own and ride both and these are why I still prefer rim brakes on my Litespeed Ultimate and Arenberg.
:) George sprayed the guy's rotors with wd when he was riding George's😂. I'd add that carefully calibrated rim brake pads modulate better than discs. Now if i could just get a rim Roadlogic in 56!😊
OMG that was so funny! I read your comment to Jessica 😂 I have a 55cm in stock with a 56.3 cm effective top tube. 😉
Brake with disks without blocking the front and flipping over, RIM BRAKES FOR THE WIN!!!
@@csarcpab thank you for watching please consider subscribing
I ride everyday through the British winter and rim brakes on alloy rims are superb.
I race and ride in the mountains on carbon tubular rims in the season and have no issues.
Disc brakes have been pushed onto new riders who believe the marketing.
Thank you for your comment. You debunk the marketing that has been out there. Riders from the UK 🇬🇧 claim that rim brake doesn’t work in the winter, wheels wear out under those harsh conditions. Thank you for voicing your positive experience with rim brake! Thanks for watching. Please consider subscribing.
I would say cantilever rim brakes, my go to setup on my Ritchey Swiss Cross! Great for mud or snow clearance!
Indeed! Canti brakes are awesome! Thanks for watching
Properly maintained and cleaned bikes work well :D
Correct! Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
Tim brakes are superior to disc brakes for road bikes in cost, maintenance, operation, weight, and safety.
On point. Too many noobs buy into the PR-Apple-Oranges comparisons. And then never use their front wheel disc brake out of fear (cuz modulation is a joke), and still slide out in the wet (cuz tire-tarmac bond is a fickle one in the wet...).
Correct front brake most important and powerful brake in the dry. Tire traction is the only thing that matters in the wet.
Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
Ha ha, nice "test" George! One bike with rim brakes on aluminum wheels gets a slight subjective nod over another bike sporting carbon wheels & disc brakes with unknown maintenance history. Well l I guess that proves it! You crazy man, keep them coming!
I run V brakes on the bike I ride in the worst weather (winter commuting, heavy rain, etc...) because it gets the job done cheap and they are fine. Canti's are the best kept secret, when setup well with kool stops, and especially with old wide dia compe levers if setup on flat bars. I have cantis on my cargo bike, and they have the best modulation of rim brakes. I do like the road disc brakes on my gravel bike, they seem to have an advantage on very steep hills that heat up the rim brake pads on my road bike. My favorite brakes on any of my bikes are the MT201 hydraulic brakes I put on my trek hybrid I use for riding around town.
Love it George Love it!
Thank You and thank you for watching!
I actually change the rim brake pads on my bike to some kool stops salmon compound, and the braking performance has improved. Even when braking on top of the hooods.
Wonderful! Do you use the all salmon or the salmon with black tip?
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad all salmon
Swiss Stop pads on carbon wet or dry are exceptional (expensive)
Kool Stop salmon are the bomb!
I say that for years! And btw, it's obvious: after all rim brakes work to the same principle as disc brakes, they are disc brakes WITH A FAR BIGGER DISC!!! And the braking force as applied direct to the part that holds the tire, while with disc brakes the braking force is applied to a much smaller disc and then has to be transmitted through the spokes. Every honest engineer will tell you that a rim brake of the same quality as a disc brake is superior. Of course you need the right pads and of course in the wet (because the rim is nearer to the wet road), the first rotation is to wipe of the water from the rim and at that time braking power is much lower - but the limiting factor is the tire road contact anyways, it doesn't help when the wheels block and you slide on the road.
The only thing is that disc brakes need less power at the lever (and that is not because of the disc but because of the hydraulic transmission, the Magura hydraulic rim brake was the same). But - as with Campy red on carbon you can block the wheels with two fingers if you want... what's the point here?
We are in agreement but the bike industry and channels like GCN keep pushing how superior disc brakes are to rim brakes. My friend was definitely surprise how effective my rim brakes were compared to his disc brakes.
Thanks for watching please consider subscribing!
also try emergency braking and then riding on a disc brake, tick tick tick
That annoying mouse tick tick tick! Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
No need for 300 gears, carbon rims or frame, aerodynamic handlebars, whatever lalala. They only want your hard earned.
Lugged steel frame and rim brakes! That will last you for a lifetime.
2:27 that sound 🔥🔥
Yep that’s the textured brake track! Very secure braking. I have since upgraded the standard Shimano pads for Kool Stop pads. Even better modulation and dead stop braking as well. 😊
I have both, disc brakes are better in every way except cost. Modulation, Stop, on a mountainous long descent I will take the disc brakes 100% of the times. My shoulders and arms will thank me for that. If you live on a flat area then go for rims.
@@LainOTN funny I climb over 1,000,000 feet per year. I don’t find disc brakes offer anything better than rim. Tell me do you Climb a 1,000,000 feet per year ? What are you doing Braking on long mountainous descents? I’ve never understood why people think that riding in the mountains means you need disc brakes. We have 20 mile 6,000 feet descents here over 60 mph why would I want disc brakes for that? Rim brakes are perfect for those mountains.
300.000m a year not, but I do around 150.000m a year. Regarding a single descent, well if is a straight line you don't need any especial brakes. Does rim works, yeah for years, I will prefer hydraulics for a long, full of U turns descent, also. I can descent with both, but the load on the shoulders is way way way way less on hydraulics.
Thank you for your response and not taking offense at my comment. Most people don’t climb as much or descend as much as I do and promote disc brakes as better. The ONLY thing disc brakes do better is brake in the wet when talking about carbon rim brake wheels which is not a good idea to ride. I don’t ride carbon wheels dry or wet. FYI - I live in San Diego it hardly ever rains here so getting a disc brake bike for weather reasons is a non-starter.
I’m not talking about a single descent. We have many 15-20+ mile descents here California and very twisty with your switchbacks and U-turns. I am a confident descender and take riders out and coach them how to descend on progressively longer and progressively twistier descents. We also have a lot of 15-25% hills here where I take riders on REV Rides of 50 miles and 10,000 feet of climbing.
I have no idea what you are referring to regarding load on your shoulders. Maybe your bike fit needs to be addressed. Maybe your stem is not long enough. One of the most common issues I see as a bike fitter is people ride really short stems and have a lot of weight on their hands, triceps and shoulders. As an ultra cyclist I only feel those aches when riding 600km brevets and above simply because I only do one or two a year or a 1200km like Paris Brest Paris. 400km Brevets and below i have no issues. I definitely don’t feel a thing on 160km rides. I do 2 - 160km rides this weekend.
I have 3 bikes with disc brakes a full Dura-Ace equipped road bike, a tandem and a Ritchey Outback gravel bike. Disc brakes on the road bike is unnecessary, on the gravel bike it’s a push on the tandem it’s a must.
Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
Well said, George.👍
Thank you for watching!
Also rim brakes are cheaper and require a LOT LESS MAINTENANCE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@richards4422 correct!! Way cheaper!
and about 500 grams lighter on average and less spokes required on the front wheel making your bike more aero especially in crosswinds@@richards4422
Rim brakes: go direct mount + aluminium wheels
Disc brakes: carbon wheels 8 days a week. Twice on Sundays.
absolutely correct! Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
I am happy descending on rim brake with alloy brake track.
Yep! People need to stop braking so much in descents! Just enjoy the descents
I have the last of French made Time Alpe Dhuez, and I use carbon wheelset for flats, and switch to alloy wheels up GMR/Baldy.
@@openwheelracing88 Baldy you need brakes. GMR is an easy descent no brakes required except about 2-3 left handlers. It’s not steep climb (4-6%) so you cant go really fast downhill. Especially late afternoon when the updraft is strong as you are going down
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad sometimes I do still have to brake considerably. Coming down Baldy can be scary with traffic and steep grade. I have PTSD due to speed wobble on TCR. Much more relaxed down GMR with the switchbacks and hairpins.
Swiss Stop pads (expensive) have tremendous stopping power on carbon rims wet or dry😊
Dario Pegoretti dichiarò:" non esiste un disco più grande del cerchio della ruota". Rim brake per sempre!
Correct!!
Abrupt feel = no spoke windup on rim brakes, more instant
Much science. Very proven.
Yep over 100,000 documented on Strava over the last 10 years. In all manner of weather and different terrain and different bikes. Rim brake is still the better braking solution.
For my road bike I use rim brakes, for me a much better feel. I can easily lock up the wheels, how much more stopping power do I need. For my gravel and mountain bikes I use mechanical disk brakes to accommodate the larger tire sizes. For me hydraulic disk brakes gives me too much stopping power with poor modulation vs mechanical disk brakes.
I would like to try a bike with Brodie V-brakes, otherwise not the greatest fan of v-brakes.
I’m an idiot for arguing…you know more than me! My concern and why I’d buy a disc bike now is I’m worried about not being able to find rim brake wheels in the future.
But in general, I don’t want electric shifting, hydraulic brakes, etc.
I understand the fear of not finding rim brake parts for your bike but wheels are easy to find. I have wheels that are over 30 years old. How much longer do you need wheels to last?
You can always buy the components and build your own wheels. I usually lace them and give it to my local bike shop for dishing and tensioning the spokes. If you want the best wheels to match your riding style and road conditions, you need to build your own. Wider over 32mm tire cable rim brakes are not so good and hydro rim brakes are as heavy as disk brakes. For anything with 32mm wide tires and under, rim brakes are better. It is also important to compare, cable rim to cable disk and hydro rims to hydro disk. It is unfair to compare, cable rim brakes to hydro disk brakes. Hydro is just more superior and smoother. Also rim brakes require more superior materials and skilled labor while disk brake rims are made out of much cheaper resins. Disk brakes are good for manufacturers, they sell more components at lower cost.
Magura hydro rim brakes, they are the bomb!
@@ronbell7920 do they still make them?
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad I think so!
I can add to this 6:05 carbon rim braking in the dry can also be excellent. I have Dura ace carbon tubular with carbon pads they stop on a dime!
As an avid retrogrouch watcher, allow me to thrust the squirming fly into the ointment. MOST road riders ride on the hoods and in a panic stop can't switch to the drops. Can't generate as much force from the hoods. I never have used the brakes from the drops, ever, because a) I never ride in the drops (how can anyone as it is so dang uncomfortable!) and b) I can't reach the dang brake levers!
(I don't want to hear about 'bike fit' etc, etc - my bikes fit and the first and last bike fit I got - for two bikes - was $450 down a rat hole with no benefit.).
So to be fair, let's redo the test from the hoods. Preferably using your hands, as I have arthritis in mine. Disks for my mountain bikes, but in all fairness, I would prefer disks on the road bikes. My problem? Can't put disks on my Serottas and such; the classics and older bikes that I favor. And no, carbon isn't allowed as it has been proven to suck out your soul. :)
I have rim breaks and they are very steong in all conditions
Correct! Disc brakes is all marketing!
Thanks, I have been looking for a video like this. I also ride steel, because I love the way they feel. Also never could see what great advantage adding the weight and maintenance headaches associated with disc. I remember talking to techs when they started coming to market and they were not impressed either. I am getting some carbon clincher and plan to test them to my alloys.
Glad you enjoyed it! A few good carbon wheels will have good braking enhancements. I would trust an alloy braking performance more though. Thank you for watching please consider subscribing
Until i used kool stop pads, alloy rim brakes were non functional when wet for me
Which compound do you prefer from Kool Stop?
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad I only used salmon 😅
Roger! My only concern is whether the salmon pads will leave their coloring on the textured brake track. I’m sure on smooth rims it’s not an issue.
Aren't rim brakes surface round like a disc?
Ha?
Now do this in pouring rain and then we talk 😂
Tire traction on the road is the only thing that matters in the wet not the braking system. I guess you didn't watch my video all the way through. FYI - I live in San Diego we don't ride in pouring rain that's just dumb 🤣 Thanks for watching please consider subscribing.
Sorry to say, but regarding carbon rim brake once you have quality rims and pads it can go well. Campagnolo bora wto 45 here in the rain, and it brakes as good as my alu campagnolo shamal mille. I had lower quality Chinese carbon wheels they didn’t brake at all. But there are good Chinese brands now with grooves that make braking nice.With carbon rim brake wheels you Just have to brake differently. On big descents on rain and cold weather the advantage of hydraulic disc brakes is way less force applied , but that doesn’t make rim brakes useless.
In both cases we need how to brake properly :) keep riding :)
Skill still comes into play. I’ve never understood the “but on long descents disc brake …” why are people applying brakes that much on a 10,15 or 20 mile descent? Learn how to feather the brakes and learn how to corner and enjoy the descent. 😁
Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
He locked up that rear disc so hard he’s lucky he didn’t go down, if he hadn’t been going straight he would’ve been going down
Brakes stop your wheels. Tires stop your bike. -U10
Rear wheel locked on both rim and disc bike. Lockup means loss of braking power and loss of control, so as long as a rider knows how to modulate brakes, the power is essentially the same -- on dry roads with aluminum rims. I don't ride carbon wheels, so disc brakes make no sense for me.
I made a comment as a subtitle that this rider hadn't ridden a rim brake bike in years and especially one that had as much clamping force as my Dura-Ace R9100 brake calipers. There was no coaching no special advice no prepping given ... just ride the bike and perform a panic stop.
However, you do bring up an important point. Because I am an experienced rider I know in a panic stop to shift my weight rearward with my butt off and behind the saddle. I can perform a panic stop in a shorter distance than he did without locking the rear wheel. Moreover, that lack of skill and inexperience is where new riders have a fall sense of security with disc brakes over rim brake. They just haven't been taught how to properly use their equipment.
Thanks for watching and thank you for the opportunity to expound on this theme.
when I ride my bike with circa 2016 Ksyrium wheels and Ultegra 10 speed calipers, I have to be careful not to put myself otb.
The infamous Endo! 😂
Your tires are the limiting factor
All of my bikes have rim brakes and my carbon wheels have an aluminium brake track...Retro Grouch!
Right on! My deep section HED wheels have an aluminum brake track for superior braking and carbon fairing for aerodynamics ... best of both worlds! Thanks for watching
I feel much safer on rim brake than discs on road bike. Only Dura Ace discs brakes have "safe" feel
With all due respect, George, there are some practical issues with rim-brake road bikes. Yes, and I agree, they stop better IF you are using an Aluminum brake track. On carbon, (even the latest models such as Winspace) they are inferior. Obviously with rain, carbon rim are worse than inferior. The other practical considerations are you can’t get really good aluminum wheels with wider internal and external - they don’t make them anymore. Also, unless you are buying used or get a Steel Bike (like the Ritchey that you sell) bike manufacturers are not making them. So yes, do rim brakes stop great on aluminum brake tracks in the dry and wet? Yes. But that’s it.
It appears you switched off before watching the video to the end. I mentioned exactly what you are saying that carbon clincher wheels and rim brake are substandard. They suck in the dry and are downright dangerous in the wet.
The only reason disc brakes were even brought over to the road side from the MTB side is every Tom, Dick and Harry wanted to pose like a pro cyclist and ride carbon wheels on their rim brake bike. The pros, who race in all weather conditions, didn't like the braking performance of carbon rim brake so they got disc brakes. Now those bikes are forced upon the every day Joe. Then the bike industry said "We are not making rim brake bikes because no one is buying them". When the fact is if you don't make it people can't buy it. Then people like me that don't ride carbon wheels loss the freedom of choice 😭 lol!
HED wheels makes a 21mm internal with 25mm external rim brake in textured brake track and non textured. That's just fine for 28mm although I can ride 32mm on my Ritchey and have put them on the HED wheels. You don't need any wider than that for road. There are custom frame builders for rim brake as well.
The point of this video was to dispel the myth that disc brakes are better. Logistics aside rim brake is a better system. Cheaper and easier to maintain and long term cheaper to own. We have been forced to convert to disc brakes that's all I am saying.
Thanks for watching! Please consider subscribing
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad agree completely and was just expressing my frustration with losing choice and aero depth (40-55mm) wheels for rim bikes. But, like you, i’m sticking with my canyon ultimate rim-brake bike with Ultegra 8000 components. In fact, i think the 8000 brakes are the best Shimano ever made. Keep telling the truth!
@@itsok2023 I sell Boyd Cycling wheels in carbon 44mm or 60mm for rim brake to my customers who are not giving up their rim brake bikes. 🙂
Try Campagnolo red brake pads on carbon wheels, they stop almost the same like aluminium wheels.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Yeah, but what's the alternative? I can't get lightweight aluminum aero rims that give the performance benefit of a deep section carbon rim. So, either way, I'm sacrificing to ride rim brakes. I'm either sacrificing effort/top end speed or I'm sacrificing braking performance. I spend most of my time going and very little time stopping. I don't even HAVE a disc brake bike, but I certainly want one. There's more to riding than just stopping, and disc brakes stop well enough, even if rim brakes are marginally better. I can save heaps of watts and go way faster with a deep section carbon rim or I can stop a couple of feet shorter every once in a while when I need to maximum brake. What am I missing?
Rim brakes are excellent if your using road caliphers on alloy rims, coming from cantis is different story. Wet you should ride slower anyways for safety.
Rim for Road and Disc for Dirt! I would imagine a really muddy CX race or MTB disc brakes would be better. Thanks for watching!
Why do disc always cry about rain? Why are they riding in the rain so much?
The Squealing! ugh!
But it doesnt matter now bc everyone wants bigger tires and the calipers are the limiter even before frame clearance. -U10
Well then it’s a good thing my Ritchey rim brake R9100 Dura-Ace rim brake calipers can fit 32’s 😉
It feels there is more time spent on talking about brakes than riding bikes. Both kinds work, have their pros and cons. My perspective - and I am on a heavy side (so extra weight aside for any of the options) - I just need extra security when it’s wet / suddenly started to rain. Had some few risky cases on a downhill when I simply could not slow down - I guess pads were hydroplaning on rims when I needed them grip the most. Did not have that on disks.
Thanks for watching! Pretty sure you weren't referring to me since I routinely ride 10,000 miles per year and climb 1,000,000 feet per year 🙂
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Yes, George, you are correct. I am not pointing at anybody by no means; rather relate to the topic itself. Sorry for the confusion. Now, shall we discuss tubeless vs tubed, ha ha ;)
@@avav30311 ha ha! Nicely done another hot button for sure! 😂
Disc brake also locks out the wheel more easily which wears down the tire and tires are not cheap these days.
No they ain't lol! Thanks for watching!
Spot on.
Thanks for watching! Please consider subscribing
Problem Free all the way Rim Brake !!!!! Disc brakes are only for PROs and Brain Washed Noobs..... 😀
Nice!! Thanks for watching please consider subscribing.
While I appreciate this kind of testing. Its not this simple. There are many factors to consider... My 500 euro winter commuter hybrid bike (with rim brakes), stops just as fast as these rim brakes. So lets add more into the discussion? Tires, road, pads, wheels, force applied? etc etc etc
But it doesn’t mean that marketing hype should drown out riders ability and access to a braking system that’s being phased out for the wrong reasons. Most people now on a road bike, have never even ridden a modern rim brake bike with 28-30mm tires and they are making judgments calls based off not having ever tried rim brakes or having ridden rim brakes on a frame that could only except a 23mm or 25mm tire ridden at 120psi. People are riding disc brakes on tubeless tires at 60psi and 30-32mm thinking a very expensive to buy and maintain braking system is what is required to safely ride a bike. It’s simply not true. Also kudos for actually using a bicycle to commute, it’s the most underrated form of transportation and my favorite way to get to work when the opportunity presents itself. For now it’s fetching groceries that I mostly do on a bicycle.
Both bikes were on Continental 5000 tires. I mentioned the spec of the Pinarello Ultegra 12 speed Di2 Hydraulic brakes. My bike is plain and simple Dura-Ace R9100 and HED wheels with a textured brake track. All of it was shown in the video. Force applied? Seriously? It was a panic stop -- unrehearsed and un-coached. Are you going to tell me what specific force in newton meters or whatever you will apply when a car pulls out in front of you on the road? No ... it's a real life situation and so was this unrehearsed panic stop.
Thanks for watching
@@ian_pedalz While I'm not an engineer, neither a professional cyclist, I have ride many type of bikes and own a few. I believe most people buying expensive bikes are regular road cyclists and not the "common" folk that ride on a sunday during the summer or once every 3 months. That kind of people buy budget bikes and I'm pretty sure most go for the cheaper alternative (rim brake).
We can only blame the pro's wannabe for this change in the market. Brands started to sell more disc brakes road bikes compared to rim brakes, so the natural answer is to deliver what sells more. Just like buying bikes with top of the line rim brakes, while any decent non branded rim brake, brakes just as good if using the same pads and wheels. Only diference I can find is weight, and everyone seems to find important having less 20 grams on their bike, while beeing 20 seconds faster in a 200km ride. Again, we can only blame these pro's wannabe...
Also other things to consider is the evolution of frames and wheels/tires. Most people don't feel safe in dropbars bikes, even less in 23mm to 28mm tires. They go for MTB/hybrid bikes, where disc brakes used to be more common.
Same applies to road bikes, most have larger tires and wheels these days (more confort I believe), making more obvious the use of disc brakes.
The question I would like to see an answer is, are rim brakes possible on a road bike with larger tires/wheels?
I never sold a bike so I just keep them for nostalgia and occasional fun, or just to keep them rolling and working as intended. One of them is a road bike with 531 reynolds steel frame from the 80's and its lighter than most carbon bikes around. So... here comes the pseudo pros again with arguments about stifness and response/speed, while pretending they can feel the diference.
The elitism among the road cyclists got what they deserved.
On a side note, I really enjoy riding my alu frame road bike with 32c tires and disc brakes. Its just much more confortable comparing to my older road bikes. Would I buy it with rim brakes? Sure... if was available. Would I buy with dura-ace rim brakes compared to non branded rim brakes? No.
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Sir, with all the respect I have for expert cyclists like yourself, this was not a panic stop, I commute along traffic for many years, so while I'm not an expert rider, I'm an expert in panic stops. This stop lacks the "panic" part. I'm sure your bike brakes better than mine considering the pads and wheels on use, weight etc.
I just don't find this particular example very conclusive.
While I don't find any advantages for having disc brakes, except tire clearance, I also don't find any diference having dura-ace rim brakes or non branded rim brakes if using the same wheels or pads. There are many "if'" and "wrongs" in this cycling world.
Anyway, I enjoy your videos and your view on the road bike industry. Keep healthy and keep them coming.
@@monstro8171 this was a random video having a random conversation with my friend. This was not a planned video to pit disc vs rim but I had the footage and needed to delete the videos to free up storage. That’s the truth 😂
Cheers
My new bike has disc brakes. I am stopping safely that what matters to me.❤
Exactly as long as you stopping safely that's all that matters to us all! Thanks for watching!
I think the other bullshit right now is carbon wheels. I don't know why all of a sudden in past 5 years alloy wheels are bad. Number of riders I see on the road who need 60 deep carbon wheels is zero. None of them are 20 year old 60kg pros.
I couldn't agree more! I made this comment to another viewer earlier. These riders that wanted to have their bike look like pro bikes by riding 60mm carbon clincher wheels accelerated the conversion from rim to disc. The bike industry was fixing a problem (carbon rim brake) with another problem (disc brake complexity)
Thanks for watching! please consider subscribing
Well said ive often said yhe same about carbon wheels and wet vs disc as you're not comparing apples for apples you're comparing two totally different materials...
I wounder how a disc carbon rotor would hold up in wet 🤣🤣
On point.
Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
Going down a 8% grade I’ll take my rim brake, I don’t trust carbon wheels
Correct! But let go of the brakes and fly down that hill!
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad oh man don’t say that, I can’t afford another concussion, I’m on my second one.
Stick Campsg BR CA-500 blocks in (they fit Shimano ). Game changer
Tell me more about these brake pads? FYI - they are out of stock at my distributors
George...are you Campag-curious?!? 😁
@@MrSandperson0 ha ha not at all!!!!!!!
Um, please. I've raced and ridden for 40+ years, and disc's are way better. You wouldn't ride alloy wheels anyway because you're not going to get a 45mm+ alloy wheel. It would weigh a ton, and you would have to make it too narrow to run modern, wide tires.
As to this "test", one guy in a parking lot isn't a test. A properly set up set of disc's is going to out brake rim brakes no matter what.
Blah blah blah … incorrect! Thanks for watching though please consider subscribing I feel I can teach so much and de-program you from thinking disc brakes are so good. They are pitiful and oversold to people like you that think you need to ride 45mm wheels come on dude wake up 😂
Oh and this one guy is at least 30 guys and gals I’ve done this test with over the last few years. Additionally, another test I’ve done is to ride next to someone get up to 25mph. The other rider is on a disc brake bike and I’m on my rim brake bike. I even allow the other rider to call out when to hit the brakes so they have the element of surprise and EVERY time EVERY single time I out-brake them. Sorry man I do this for a living. Disc brakes absolutely suck for road. 😊
@SeeYouUpTheRoad Not only an I correct, but discs are infinitely more adjustable. You could go to a 180 mm disc up front, 4 piston calipers, different ratio calipers, pad material, etc. All of these types of modifications can contribute to much stronger braking.
I read a few people commenting about locking up a tire. This is a failure of the brakes.
Finally, aero rims are an amazing upgrade. They are easily the best upgrade you can make if you care about going fast.
BTW, in addition to being a former bicycle racer, I also raced motorcycles for 15+ years, so yes, I know more about brakes than most people.
Rim brakes with steel wheels are really bad in the rain.
@@martialman.4563 that’s not what was used in this example. Performance bikes don’t use steel wheels.
@SeeYouUpTheRoad I know, most youngsters have not had the pleasure of trying to stop an old road bike with polished chrome steel rims. I would argue even good carbon rim brakes aren't bad.
ha ha I’ve ridden beach cruisers with steel rims! They are death traps in our hilly terrain here in San Diego when they get wet 😂
If you like rim brakes, get a rim brake bike. If you like disc brakes, get a disc brake bike. Why is there a need to prove anything to anyone. Any good brake system whether rim or disc is going to stop you.
@@ammon615 correct! Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
I ride discs. No question about it.
Thanks for watching
It is though people don't realize that simplicity is good design. I love my mini v brakes on my felt cycle cross. I have a New Albion with cantilevers. They're not so great, but they are plenty good enough. Good enough IS good enough !!!
I'll take them over disc.
The Mini Moto brake from Paul Components is exceptional. Another vote for Canti!
2:58 and they're not good in the wet. Ain't nobody trying to ride in the rain 😂
So true Ain’t nobody got time for that! 😂 thanks for watching please consider subscribing
Havent learned how to brake without locking up rear wheel?
What's the pipe thing connected on the top tube?
Ha ha that’s called a frame pump! Unlimited amount of air instead of buying CO2 canisters and running out on a ride of 3 or more flats.
Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
oh okay never seen one that big, i have like the small ones you attach to bottle cage. they suck tho and hard to get like over 50 psi
@@user-bz8dv3lx5x how long have you been riding? I was telling Jessica that there is an entire generation of riders who have never seen a frame pump. They started riding in the carbon era when carbon bikes were finally affordable for entry and mid tier bikes. With carbon bikes you can’t install a frame pump on the bike frame because none of the tubes are straight nor are the junctions.
It’s called that because it usually attached to frame tube either the entire length of top tube or a seat tube. What you have is a mini pump sadly it has become a misnomer to call those frame pumps. This pump has not trouble getting over 100 psi or inflating 48mm tires to 40 psi.
Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
George, make a video about frame pump please...
@@ferhanahmad182 I did this video last year on the frame pump. Let me know if you need more information ua-cam.com/video/_olrtYeLDgU/v-deo.htmlsi=zs5kLUncIqIieDPO
Love the turbine sound 😍
HED wheels are best wheels
They definitely are the best! And the Turbine noise is sooo cool 😎
Rim brakes are NOT dedicated to stop nike> Never been, rims have, limitations, and worn out, rubber is not a dedicated pad surface! All cars, motorcycles, MT bikes alwars have disc brakes. Simple. Ty to go downhill for longer rides. No way!
Ahhhhhh.... alloy wheels + rim brake = any wheel + disc brake... but carbon wheel + rim brake < carbon wheel + disc brake
😂
😅 I m into old school
Thanks for watching!
Rim or disc brakes don’t matter much to me, as long as I stop. I’ve had both types of brakes and it seems that the brake pad’s cost more then the rim pads. Last two bikes have been disc and it seems I’m paying for disk pads for a car.
Cost of ownership over the years… especially if you live in a hilly mountainous area like I do and climb 1,000,000 feet per year
No. Above all if it's wet.
Did you watch the video?
All nonsense. I compared ultegra rim brakes to tiagra hydraulic disc. There's no competition, disc is far superior. Don't believe the elitism. Try it for yourself and see.
Thanks for watching please consider subscribing
"More abrupt" doesn't equate to better. It's not about power, it's about modulation. Disc brakes are just better wet or dry. This video is just idiotic BS.
yes - do the opposite
Noobs shouldn't ride disk brake pinarellos
Correct
terrible braking technique. locking up rear wheel. you need %70 front %30 rear. Disc brakes are better in just the fact they allow 28mm tyres or bigger. I prefer discs even being a old school rider.
Now you can see what happens when someone has been riding disc brakes for years... they forget proper technique.
But more importantly the braking power caught him by surprise. He thought he needed to grab the rim brakes as hard as he has been doing with his Ultegra 12 speed Di2 disc brake Pinarello. So yeah the rear wheel locked up but not because he doesn't know how to properly brake and use proper technique, he like you have been riding inferior braking systems and forget how incredible awesome and perfect a rim brake system works. Lastly I can ride 32mm tires in my Ritchey Rim Brake bike with space for more.
But I do appreciate you watching so I can continue to dispel the myth that disc brakes are better. Thanks for watching please consider subscribing!
Cheers
Idk man, my Moots with 12 speed ultegra disc feels better and brakes better than my DA 9100 Rim brake.
Don't believe it lol! You spend 5 digits on your Moots there is no way you are going to admit to anyone that your disc brakes are inferior to your rim brake bike lol
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Mmmm u are wrong. I own 4 other bikes and they all rim brake.
1- Cervelo S5 MTN Special Edition paid 8K full DA 9070
2- Cervelo S5 VWD Mix of 9070-9100 ( 9100 brakes and levers )
3- Cervelo S3 2014 Ultegra Di2
4- Cannondale Caad 8 frame ( ALU ) with Dura Ace 9070
@@thedronescene7474 on alloy wheels? On textured alloy wheels? There is not one person who has ever performed this experiment with me that has said that their disc brake bike was better. Not one :-)
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad Alu wheels non texture and all 3 Cervelo’s on Enve 4.5 and 5.6 textured.
@@thedronescene7474 thank you for that information. Carbon wheels no matter how textured just don't compare to alloy textured. Cheers
Fat and normal road bike
another ridiculous review. disc MODULATE better than any rim brake. mmm that is why every form on wheel transportation all use disc brakes. LOL
What you can modulation is delayed and inferior braking performance. It’s ok you can admit disc brakes aren’t as good as you thought they were going to be. You’re in a safe place 😂
@@SeeYouUpTheRoad mmmm you know the power of a disc brake is tuneable depending on the brake pad used and size of rotor. you own a bike shop so why do you sell bikes with discs??? ritchey new modes are all discs.
@@spartanbike2260 the Road Logic and Road Breakaway are rim brake praise the lord 😂 the bike in this video is a 2024 model that I just purchased.
New carbon rim brake tech... look into it.
I heard from Reginald that it’s really good. Personally I don’t like carbon wheels. Everything carbon will break and with the miles I do and the remote areas I ride unsupported ultras it’s not smart to ride carbon wheels.