We have all been wrong about i-frames

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  • Опубліковано 13 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 390

  • @notepadtxtman
    @notepadtxtman 4 місяці тому +235

    So you're telling me fextralife..... is wrong.....
    My world view has been shattered, how could this ever happen D:

    • @SimplCup
      @SimplCup 4 місяці тому +16

      fextra's page was updated recently on agl stat in ds2, and some numbers have changed. but i dunno which to believe now

    • @Rosy_bun
      @Rosy_bun 4 місяці тому

      @@SimplCup don't believe anything on fextra unless you can validate it with your own eyes. they used to claim there was a "spinning" damage type dealt by attacks that spun.

    • @notepadtxtman
      @notepadtxtman 4 місяці тому +9

      @@SimplCup Oh yea they did start using these numbers since the 14th huh. Always used wikidot for some of the DS2 numbers since it just presented them better. Seems they are matched 1:1 with this video now from the same as the wikidot to this so extremely rare fextralife correct misinformation moment. Only difference seems to be some decimal point shenanigans and this video uses 60FPS for the backsteps and the fextra uses 30.
      If only the dark souls 1 wiki could say the same, infact the dark wood grain ring chose the path of evil by saying the s go from 12 to 14 which didn't even get the wrong numbers (13 and 15) right.
      Fextralife really is the gift that keeps on giving.

    • @vitriolicAmaranth
      @vitriolicAmaranth 4 місяці тому +12

      @@notepadtxtman Fextra is impressively the worst wiki for most games it covers. I don't know how the moderation team manages that, but it's aggressively inaccurate about almost everything. Plus it has awful design (at least last time I used it) and devours RAM in chromium-based browsers like Firefox. It is never surprising when it has incorrect numbers.

    • @davidnewhart2533
      @davidnewhart2533 4 місяці тому

      Fextralife hasn't been reliable for the last half-decade.

  • @kamprouristheoharis8458
    @kamprouristheoharis8458 4 місяці тому +139

    It's baffling how the abandoned backstep s in Bloodborne even though it was developed concurrently with ds2 AND they fit the combat AND they went through the trouble of making both backstep r1s and r2s. Ds3 only kept that

    • @SimpleGratia
      @SimpleGratia 4 місяці тому +35

      Especially considering Bloodborne was the one game where all your directional dodges actually have different frame data and properties instead of just being the same roll. Would have been a great fit. And they just decided to gut backstep’s s while keeping the instability frames that came from DS1, making it not just difficult but especially punishing to use. I don’t understand how From took so long to see that nobody is using backsteps, I guess the backstep talisman in the ER DLC is at least confirmation that they are aware of it now.

    • @darthcopper7341
      @darthcopper7341 4 місяці тому +1

      Cause once again mauler proved bloodbourne, and dark souls 2 are two different genres. Yet you peeps want to claim it is the same type of game.

    • @loc7909
      @loc7909 4 місяці тому +11

      ​@@darthcopper7341I mean you must admit it's the same genre? Semi linear Action RPG. I love how people say "souls like" is a genre. It's a design formula for action RPGs.
      I don't really understand how you mean they're a different type of game? Now call me crazy, ER I personally don't consider it a souls like with the open world I think that's disqualifying. Is there any other open world game that is considered a souls like?
      Maybe there is?

    • @zzodysseuszz
      @zzodysseuszz 4 місяці тому +8

      @@darthcopper7341 they’re the same exact genre with different approaches to it. Ds2 is methodical, bloodborne is aggressive. It’s why bloodborne rewards you for locking on with a better dodge, and gives you a rally mechanic to reward aggressiveness. It’s literally just dark souls but “hmm what if we made it more aggressive”. Mauler didn’t prove shit. His dark souls opinions are some of the worse on the internet.

    • @AssailantLF
      @AssailantLF 4 місяці тому +1

      Backstep is so mid that 99% of players never use it and they aren't missing out. A regular roll dodge is almost always more optimal for avoiding damage, so the back step utility is more about spacing and style points

  • @deepism
    @deepism 4 місяці тому +49

    "I miss backstep I-Frames" I raise you Fine Crucible Feather talisman

    • @michaelcarroll5801
      @michaelcarroll5801 4 місяці тому +5

      I raise you Fine Crucible Feather Talisman giganerfed 😢

    • @coastaldrano2355
      @coastaldrano2355 4 місяці тому +10

      Also increases damage taken by 15%. In Elden Ring?? No thank you

    • @deepism
      @deepism 4 місяці тому

      @@coastaldrano2355 Pump vigor bro. Fr

    • @deepism
      @deepism 4 місяці тому

      @god-l3h Fr!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @AtreyusNinja
    @AtreyusNinja 4 місяці тому +120

    Dude, we ALL miss backstep s !

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому +1

      They are in Elden ring. What do you mean "miss" we still have them lol

    • @asdergold1
      @asdergold1 4 місяці тому +28

      ​​​@@egg_64. DLC exclusive. And it occupies a talisman slot.

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому +1

      @@asdergold1 Yeah? does that matter? no... Your point makes no sense. We still have I-frame backsteps even if its locked in the dlc with a tali slot.

    • @Rtplb
      @Rtplb 4 місяці тому +13

      And 45% more damagr

    • @AtreyusNinja
      @AtreyusNinja 4 місяці тому

      I dont have the dlc, i rather buy lies of p with those Money ​@@egg_64.

  • @younghollow2663
    @younghollow2663 4 місяці тому +5

    1:53 that was the epic anime moment lol

  • @TheMightyGiantDad
    @TheMightyGiantDad 4 місяці тому +9

    Absolutely insane how much misinformation is out there about this topic. Thank you so much for clearing this up!

  • @lewis297
    @lewis297 4 місяці тому +19

    Not everyone understands it but advantage of fat roll is that you lay on the ground some time and you can actually dodge at least Gwyn's attacks like this. Would be cool if Fromsoftware actually did something with this, like delaying getting up with holding circle button

    • @AtreyusNinja
      @AtreyusNinja 4 місяці тому +1

      U dont Dodge gwyn attacks, u parry them :3

    • @youtubefan5786
      @youtubefan5786 4 місяці тому

      pretty sure elden rind does that, but only because bosses hit you while you're down

    • @lewis297
      @lewis297 4 місяці тому

      @@youtubefan5786 Elden ring gives you some invisibility while you down but this is a different

    • @damirkrancpiler2246
      @damirkrancpiler2246 3 місяці тому +2

      fat roll is also great for moonlightbutterfly to remain under the cover of the wall longer. That is how I beat it for the first time easily

    • @pempotfoy6206
      @pempotfoy6206 2 місяці тому +2

      I like the idea but apparently experimenting is bad on this toxic community

  • @michaelcarroll5801
    @michaelcarroll5801 4 місяці тому +3

    I hope one day Domo3k comes out with the ultimate 1 to 1 DS 1/2/3 hitbox comparison for every single comparable enemy and boss so we can settle the hit detection debate once and for all.

  • @Jetiko27
    @Jetiko27 4 місяці тому +52

    So you can make DS2 backsteps better than DS1 rolls? 😂

    • @zubroskadamien5883
      @zubroskadamien5883 4 місяці тому +8

      Of course. That’s the most important fact to understand why Max Sl PvP is less balanced than 92-100 agility PvP. And to be honest the distance of the dodge ( equiped load) is very important too.
      It s very hard to take damages if you re spaming backsteps, naked with Max agility. 🤮

    • @mang520
      @mang520 4 місяці тому +2

      No, ds1 roll always has more s and has no startup frames, compared to ds2 backstep

    • @Warcrafter4
      @Warcrafter4 4 місяці тому +11

      They are a side grade of each other: DS1 has hyper armor(infinite poise) in addition to a small amount of I-frames.
      DS2 has much longer I-frames but no hyper armor.

  • @roideus
    @roideus 4 місяці тому +7

    Backstep s were such a good way to increase the complexity of PvP, instead we got a return of backstab fishing.

  • @GBA-049
    @GBA-049 4 місяці тому +15

    Oh so _that's_ why I fail at backstep dodges. The i-frames are DURING the animation, not the start. Got it

    • @pempotfoy6206
      @pempotfoy6206 2 місяці тому +1

      Yes, you have to press the button earlier than a regular roll. Practice with big slow enemies.

  • @ElementEvilTeam
    @ElementEvilTeam 4 місяці тому +5

    thank you captain

  • @v-ia
    @v-ia 4 місяці тому +17

    a hero to the community. and also the guy that makes videos i click on so i can be slightly angry at being wrong

  • @mastergame1311
    @mastergame1311 4 місяці тому +17

    It's so strange that the game is simultaneously deemed "casual" by some only to then complain about fewer I-frames which makes the game harder.

    • @abdalln8554
      @abdalln8554 3 місяці тому +3

      It makes the game harder because the casual/thoughtless strategy is to always dodge into the enemy's sword arm, or directly into them and eat the hit box with i frames. Which is why the occasional southpaw boss messes up people's instincts lol.
      Fewer i frames and the backstep dodge seems like the intention was to force you to consider where and when you dodged. And to try to avoid attacks entirely rather than bank on phasing through hits.

  • @Rosy_bun
    @Rosy_bun 4 місяці тому +251

    everyone acting like ds2 had the worst i-frame set up while it's the only one with useable backsteps

    • @sirexilon49
      @sirexilon49 4 місяці тому +5

      In ds1 the only thing I ever use backsteps for is to backstep through the flaming barrel in undead burg.(You still take damage but you can avoid the stagger/knockdown)

    • @whisperedflame6952
      @whisperedflame6952 4 місяці тому +4

      Backsteps are best used when the enemy is staggered. They can be used as nice follow ups to combos or to help chain combos.

    • @GilbertTheGilbertGuy
      @GilbertTheGilbertGuy 4 місяці тому +1

      Nah. ds1 back steps are fine they work great to get out of greatsword stunlocks.

    • @Rosy_bun
      @Rosy_bun 4 місяці тому +26

      @@GilbertTheGilbertGuy because they grant you infinite hyper armor. you still take damage though lol. at least in ds2 they actually function as dodges. i guess being able to simply phase through a giant boulder is good game design though
      4 frames is less than the active damage frames on nearly every attack on the game. DS1 backsteps are useless to actually avoid attacks.

    • @Rosy_bun
      @Rosy_bun 4 місяці тому +19

      @@whisperedflame6952 In ds2, yes, since they grant i-frames, and are a very short distance dodge, meaning you will be able to close the distance again with an attack, if it catches your oponent off guard. in DS1 though, such an action would just get you hit AND make you take counter damage. mostly cause the i-frames are insufficient to get through any attack in the game. even worse for DS3 where there's literally 0 i-frames on a backstep.

  • @D-Havoc
    @D-Havoc 4 місяці тому +3

    I miss backstep i-frames too. 😢

  • @jamesarthurkimbell
    @jamesarthurkimbell 4 місяці тому +8

    Numbers only exist so people can use them to complain. Don't take that away!

  • @zzodysseuszz
    @zzodysseuszz 4 місяці тому +11

    Well that’s an interesting title

  • @kioken101
    @kioken101 4 місяці тому +4

    I actually knew DS1 rolls were the same but I also use Fextralife alot so I don't remember how I learned that

  • @JoseViktor4099
    @JoseViktor4099 4 місяці тому +16

    Hold on, DS3 has a unused roll comparable to BHS I-frames? I wonder where that may had been used. Sounds extremely busted for a normal roll.

    • @Psychosomatic63
      @Psychosomatic63 4 місяці тому +9

      Possibly an early version of the carthus blood ring? Idk but that's my best guess.

    • @uegeywcewhdvsdge318
      @uegeywcewhdvsdge318 4 місяці тому +8

      Cinder uses the backflip so its probably just a leftover from development

  • @smujb5544
    @smujb5544 4 місяці тому +9

    I believe the ds3 "unused roll" is the get-up roll after a knockdown.

  • @ChristianTheChicken
    @ChristianTheChicken 4 місяці тому +13

    0:00 Hi!

  • @puffballbk2186
    @puffballbk2186 4 місяці тому +1

    Good news in the Elden ring dlc they added a talisman that gives you more i frames for your backstep

  • @bajscast
    @bajscast 4 місяці тому +12

    Have you made a video that mentions how DS2's early game levels are all designed in a tutorial style manner, teaching you how to handle various different challenges? For example forest of fallen giants has the rotunda with 12 hollows that are laying down, which teaches you how if you take things slow, you can easily handle small threats, but sprinting through will result in you being ambushed and killed? It's very intelligently designed with the bow hollow on the stone wall and the hollows who attack you when you try to climb the ladder. Even with very early game gear, this is a totally easy encounter if you approach it the way the game intends, and yet people learn almost nothing from it. Heide's teaches you about attack timing and enemy combos with the old knights, who are easy but intimidating, which also makes you feel better when you beat them. No man's wharf teaching you light mechanics as well and how clearly it shows how enemies will hang off the side of things to ambush you. The only problem is the amount of people who assume that the bloodborne/DS3/elden ring method of simply sprinting past all your enemies to find a bonfire will work, and yet such complaints are never levied at DS1 for being more like DS2 than those games!

    • @Domo3000
      @Domo3000  4 місяці тому +8

      I didn't make a specific video, but I've mentioned a lot of specific moments where the game teaches you something and how you have to apply it later.
      But that's spread around twenty different videos so thanks for the good idea of putting it in one video 🙌

    • @bajscast
      @bajscast 4 місяці тому +4

      @@Domo3000 Awesome, I'd love to see it. I was thinking about how it could make a good video essay, but your content is short form and easily conveys meaning to the viewer that I think most people would be hard pressed to disagree with!

    • @youtubefan5786
      @youtubefan5786 4 місяці тому +1

      ds1 get's no such criticism on account of being an actual good game, hope it helps sir

    • @bajscast
      @bajscast 4 місяці тому +3

      @@youtubefan5786 That's a non-sequitor

    • @reneclovercinecritica7269
      @reneclovercinecritica7269 4 місяці тому

      Interesting that you mention people learn almost nothing from the encounter. Almost as if dropping 12 enemies on the ground wasn't a very clever or creative way to communicate an idea.

  • @GameBooAdvancePlus
    @GameBooAdvancePlus 4 місяці тому +3

    so its less the length of frames but how quickly they appear. I guess the instant start up and distance of the fast/ninja roll can give the illusion of more i-frames because its naturally more responsive and puts you in a better position. Also I miss backstep s too :(
    At least Lies of P gives us a taste of backstep s in a modern game. You can even combo offset with them too in that game.

  • @atromin9323
    @atromin9323 4 місяці тому +1

    I guess it means i wasn't crazy for prefering mid roll over light roll in DS1, i always prefered it for having less travel distance, it makes it easier to stay in range for a punish when the light roll sometimes left me out of range. It also explains why i never had any issues fat rolling with the same timing as the other rolls.

    • @TheTrueEvilSpud
      @TheTrueEvilSpud 4 місяці тому +6

      I think people always know the startup times where the same, the main issue was the lengthier recovery

  • @unrefinedmorosis5546
    @unrefinedmorosis5546 4 місяці тому +65

    Huh. It's interesting to see this kind of data debunked when it's so commonly stated, especially in arguments about ADP and the such. Thank you for the video evidence and explanations Domo.

    • @darthcopper7341
      @darthcopper7341 4 місяці тому

      It is proved for rolling dash through a npc like samurai guy, but you peeps want to say otherwise.

    • @unrefinedmorosis5546
      @unrefinedmorosis5546 4 місяці тому +15

      @@darthcopper7341 You can't argue much with animation data and video evidence bro.

    • @Domo3000
      @Domo3000  4 місяці тому +3

      ​@@unrefinedmorosis5546 I don't even understand what DarthCopper is arguing.

    • @unrefinedmorosis5546
      @unrefinedmorosis5546 4 місяці тому +1

      @@Domo3000 Me neither.

    • @vanilla.icescream
      @vanilla.icescream 4 місяці тому

      @@Domo3000 all of his comments in your channel is pretty creepy tbh

  • @dullededge1395
    @dullededge1395 4 місяці тому +2

    can you make video about powerstanceing diffrent weapon types and showing off cool combos

  • @-HellsSarcasticComedian-
    @-HellsSarcasticComedian- 4 місяці тому +1

    Fascinating... 🖖😎

  • @dondada3638
    @dondada3638 4 місяці тому +3

    Another vid from the goat

  • @craftihlow69
    @craftihlow69 4 місяці тому +2

    I played DS2 on SL1 and 8 I-Frames anf it just demanded rolling into the right direction. Its pretty okay.

  • @yudhit92
    @yudhit92 4 місяці тому

    Greatshield poke build:
    what s 🗿?

  • @ashen-one--x
    @ashen-one--x 4 місяці тому +1

    fantastic. thanks for the upload!

  • @psycbn
    @psycbn 2 місяці тому

    Ds1 has a combination of s and hyper armor. You can force trades vs everything i even have a clip of me backstepping through fire tempest into a backstab lol

  • @jadewedge6082
    @jadewedge6082 4 місяці тому

    ... Dark souls 1 had backstep i-frames?
    Oh my god.

  • @arsenii_yavorskyi
    @arsenii_yavorskyi 4 місяці тому +1

    you're gonna like Shadow of the Erdtree, then :)

  • @mzed561
    @mzed561 4 місяці тому +53

    so basically the entire ADP thing was completely blown out of proportion in favor of DS1 wankery? wow so surprising

    • @afsdfsadhasfh
      @afsdfsadhasfh 4 місяці тому +22

      Is it wankery when DS1 is the best game in the series?
      It's DS3 that seemingly gets away with literally all the same shit that people criticized DS2 to death for, and then some extra shit on top.

    • @GilbertTheGilbertGuy
      @GilbertTheGilbertGuy 4 місяці тому +14

      ​@@afsdfsadhasfhI love darksouls 1 but it's a HORRIBLE game.

    • @Rosy_bun
      @Rosy_bun 4 місяці тому +9

      @@afsdfsadhasfh opinions are opinions you think ds1 is the best. key words "you think"

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому +7

      @@GilbertTheGilbertGuy I know you're joking but still I don't think its a "HORRIBLE game" It's just a horribly made game.

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому

      @@Rosy_bun Ok? and? was that your entire rebuttal to his comment? I get you don't agree with his opinion but you Don't have to respond and act like he just said that ds1 was the best souls game. This is peak souls-bro-brainrot right here.

  • @Maggotbone
    @Maggotbone 3 місяці тому

    I've been playing the game at 96 agility

  • @DarkBlyght
    @DarkBlyght 4 місяці тому +1

    @domo3000 shit, i just checked with ds1 debug and you are correct, can believe we all trust a lie for so much time...
    PS in your ds2 part, does the red rig model means that you have instability damage?

  • @khajiitimanus7432
    @khajiitimanus7432 4 місяці тому +14

    This is going to be a bit of a random rant, but every time I hear someone complain about Adaptability in DS2, I am dumbfounded. I rarely see an actual reason for why Adaptability is a bad mechanic beyond people just saying "it's bad" or otherwise whining about i-frames.
    I won't disagree that the devs didn't give a good explanation for it, but the actual mechanic itself is perfectly fine.
    Agility (AGI) is a sort of "sub-stat" which affects how fast animations are, and how many invincibility frames you have. I say "sub-stat" because you cannot increase AGI directly - instead, it is increased by levelling Attunement (ATT) and Adaptability (ADP). The DS2 wikidot has good formulas for calculating AGI itself - suffice to say, ADP has a considerably greater effect than ATT on increasing AGI.
    Note that you can never have any less than 85 AGI. Even if the formula would result in a lower number, the in-game value never goes lower than 85.
    You need approximately 92 AGI for "good" rolling i-frames in DS2. With anywhere between 90-92 AGI, I can confidently say as a casual Dark Souls player that 99% of attacks that hit me while I was dodging were because I missed the timing. Hitbox collision is usually far less jank than advertised by the haters.
    Here's the total ATT/ADP/AGI values of each starting class:
    *Warrior*
    ATT 5, ADP 5
    [AGI 85]
    *Knight*
    ATT 4, ADP 9
    [AGI 87.75 (87)]
    *Swordsman*
    ATT 6, ADP 6
    [AGI 86]
    *Bandit*
    ATT 2, ADP 3
    [AGI 82.75 (85)]
    *Cleric*
    ATT 10, ADP 4
    [AGI 85.5 (85)]
    *Sorcerer*
    ATT 12, ADP 8
    [AGI 89]
    *Explorer*
    ATT 7, ADP 12
    [AGI 90.75 (90)]
    *Deprived*
    ATT 6, ADP 6
    [AGI 86]
    (Agility always rounds down to the nearest whole number.)
    As you can see, the only time AGI is bothersome is just for the first handful of levels or so of most starting classes. After that, 99% of dodging problems is due to skill issue. I again say this from experience.
    So, to get 92 Agility as fast as possible, each of the starting classes must level:
    *Warrior*
    +10 ADP or +1 ATT/+9 ADP
    *Knight*
    +6 ADP
    *Swordsman*
    +8 ADP
    *Bandit*
    +13 ADP or +1 ATT/+12 ADP
    *Cleric*
    +9 ADP
    *Sorcerer*
    +4 ADP
    *Explorer*
    +2 ADP
    *Deprived*
    +8 ADP
    On average, that's just 7 or 8 levels. It might sound like a lot when compared to the rest of FromSoft's games, but I cannot understate how quickly you level up in DS2. You can get those levels absurdly easily within a few minutes of just playing normally - DS2 is definitely not skimping out on souls in the early game.
    You can casually get enough souls for 1-2 levels before you even leave the tutorial and reach Majula, and then you can easily get enough souls for 2-5 _additional_ levels by the time you get to the Cardinal Tower bonfire.
    If you do any farming, it's not very hard at all to gather enough souls for 20+ levels before exterminating the enemies at the Crestfallen's Retreat bonfire, only halfway to Cardinal Tower. Might take 15 minutes from character creation, minimal casual effort.
    Even the Bandit, with by far the lowest total AGI of all starting classes, only needs to level 13 times before reaching 92 AGI. And as clarified, the first few dozen levels are complete pocket change.
    Agility (and by extension, Adaptability) is a complete non-issue in the early game of DS2. It'll be harder to dodge for a short while, but it's so easily fixable that it's a barely a blip in the journey. It's only a problem if you didn't pick Sorcerer or Explorer and then also decide to never level ADP or ATT.

    • @TheTrueEvilSpud
      @TheTrueEvilSpud 4 місяці тому +4

      Adaptability is a bad mechanic because it’s a core movement function that’s locked behind leveling. Here’s a few issues:
      -if you have multiple save files your timing gets fucked up by varying durations
      -the game feels inconsistent
      -rolling feels less skillful and more based on raw stats
      Last point is probably the strongest. People would rather have a stable, happy medium in roll strength than this bell curve of frustratingly weak rolls and then briefly balanced rolls, finally ending with humorously powerful rolls that make the game a cakewalk. This would be fine in a turn-based game, but for what is basically a 3D fighting game it dumbs the game down a lot.

    • @michaelcarroll5801
      @michaelcarroll5801 4 місяці тому +4

      ​​@@TheTrueEvilSpud I don't think the last point is the strongest since DS2 would have the highest level of skill expression with base AGL. So if you want less s, DS2 is the best game for that.
      You could also mention that apparently AGL was a band-aid fix for the issue of the inflated economy of DS2. DS2 was almost never released because of all the issues during development, so we shouldn't pretend it's perfectly designed.
      Personally I enjoy AGL, but it makes sense to have s be static for the sake of consistency.

    • @jadewedge6082
      @jadewedge6082 4 місяці тому +1

      My biggest issue is I feel like i-frames during rolling *shouldn't* be affected by leveling up. Like... I think there's a pretty good reason all the games avoided tying i-frames to a stat you have to level up (even if levelling up in Dark Souls 2 is extremely fast, and is one of my favourite games for it.) even if I do think it's neat in concept. I don't really think DS2 would have lost anything if i-frames weren't tied to agility!
      Plus some of the i-frame extensions or lack-of-i-frames makes some attacks that shouldn't hit you *do* hit you. I think we can mostly look at the DLC for that one (shout out to Aava)

    • @duedah837
      @duedah837 4 місяці тому +4

      @@TheTrueEvilSpud It's not a core movement function. ADP doesn't effect movement whatsoever. You hava omni rolling, sprinting, backsteps, etc all without ever leveling it up.

    • @khajiitimanus7432
      @khajiitimanus7432 4 місяці тому +2

      @@TheTrueEvilSpud I fundamentally disagree.
      First off, Adaptability isn't a movement function. It increases Agility - but on it's own, ADP doesn't do anything significant beyond raising your status resistances and increasing unarmored poise. I suppose ADP also slightly increases HP until levelled to 50, but every stat does this in DS2.
      That established, your complaints are about i-frames, so you actually mean Agility. AGI still isn't a "core movement function" because it doesn't affect the mobility or range of your dodge rolls. It only adds more i-frames to dodge rolls and additionally speeds up item use (but not casting speed). Basically, AGI doesn't affect mobility, it affects safety of mobility.
      No matter what, you always have a minimum of 85 Agility - I said this before. As a result, your minimum i-frames are actually very consistent. What I didn't mention before is that you also have a maximum AGI of 120, so you can't get to a point where you're playing with invincibility hacks.
      While you have a valid point on the potential for Agility to mess with someone's ingrained dodge timings, you also fail to understand that it is a player skill issue all the same. AGI is not changing with your dodge rolls entirely - it only lengthens the i-frames when increased . If you get used to longer i-frames, that is ultimately your mistake for getting complacent, because you are not obligated to keep levelling Agility or even ever level AGI at all. Take some accountability for yourself - if you cannot handle the i-frame variation, it was your mistake to over-invest.
      Even then, AGI can actually be extremely skill heavy because of this factor - _it allows you to control how many i-frames you have._ The specific skill measured is getting used to varying i-frames and having the option to have lower i-frames. AGI teaches the player to be more adaptable with their i-frames. It gives you another avenue to influence your game's difficulty, to either ease your journey or give yourself a challenge.
      On the flip end, AGI also adds a lot of nuance to defensive mechanics. It directly makes heavier builds more viable because DS2 separates i-frames from mobility. As a result, unlike the rest of FromSoft's games, you can actually afford to fat-roll without being at a crippling disadvantage when dodging - all because of AGI. You can also use AGI (by levelling ADP) to supplement END, trading dodge distance for dodge effectiveness, or vice-versa. This also eliminates how brokenly metagaming it is to just fight unarmored entirely - especially since DS2 didn't kill armor upgrading yet, so armor and defenses are really good, albeit requiring fair investment to be truly strong. AGI heavily contributes to that game balancing, adding some much needed nuance to evasion.
      It ends up being a pretty smart mechanic because it means that there isn't a single over-powered or underpowered stat too. In DS1, Resistance was a completely redundant stat due to how it only affected poison resistance. ADP makes all of your stats balanced - anything and everything can be good to level, which encourages build diversity. Overall, while it's a good idea to level Adaptability to increase your Agility, you can also choose to level a different stat and still have a good experience if your playstyle suits it. For example, you could choose to be a ranged fighter, so you won't really need to dodge. Or you could pump your damage stats, and crush your opponent before dodging can be relevant. Or you could just parry your enemies - while this won't work for every enemy, a lot of DS2 enemies (and even some bosses) can be parried, which further negates a need for dodging. Or you could turtle up with a strength build, as long as you remember to be careful of guard-breaks.
      Agility (and by extension, Adaptability) isn't just "not bad," but actually _good._ On the other hand, you don't have to like the mechanic - if the changes that AGI brings don't suit your personal taste, you're still perfectly allowed to dislike it. But the mechanic itself is not problematic - it's purely a matter of taste.
      For example, despite how much AGI contributes to balancing armor and evasion, it does make your defensive stats less streamlined. It's a lot simpler to be tanky or to move like a ninja in the other games, where i-frames and dodge mobility are more hand-in-hand, by just levelling Endurance. However, you also just don't have the same viability for heavier builds. Being lightweight is always better than having higher defense in the rest of FromSoft's games.
      And on a different note, the devs also definitely fumbled the ball with how poor of an explanation they gave for Agility and Adaptability. The fact that the majority of our information on a core game mechanic stat was built by the community's testing and information gathering is a little absurd.

  • @Oblivion_Walker
    @Oblivion_Walker 4 місяці тому +3

    Ds2 fans rise up

  • @Voromire1
    @Voromire1 4 місяці тому +1

    I genuinely never even tried to use backstep I-frames in any of the souls games. Is it primarily used in PVP? Or is this a universally useful mechanic that I have just completely missed somehow?

    • @Domo3000
      @Domo3000  4 місяці тому +2

      It's only useful in DS2 as it's the only one with viable backstep s.
      But it's a very useful tool, as you can dodge an attack while staying in the middle of the action.

  • @davidnewhart2533
    @davidnewhart2533 4 місяці тому +5

    I'm just gonna say this: When I first played DS2, I rarely leveled up ADP. I didn't even know your roll was tied to it. The max ADP I had on my character was 14. I went through the game just fine and didn't even feel like there were bad hitboxes.

    • @TheTrueEvilSpud
      @TheTrueEvilSpud 4 місяці тому +1

      Did you use a great shield? The hit boxes are pretty janky, and a lot of attacks have lingering phantom hit boxes. When I’ve played with using a shield a lot it’s less noticeable but without one it’s very easy to run “into” an attack that already finished visually.

    • @AtreyusNinja
      @AtreyusNinja 4 місяці тому +1

      ​@@TheTrueEvilSpud"have u played with a shield?" WTF dude, in 10 years i never had problems with ds2 hitboxes, u talk like u cant play the f game w/o a tower shield, how bad r u at dodging ? Do u often Dodge 3 seconds before the actual hit?

    • @Domo3000
      @Domo3000  4 місяці тому +4

      "a lot of attacks have lingering phantom hitboxes"
      Are you talking about DS1? Because in DS2 there's really not many lingering hitboxes

    • @TheTrueEvilSpud
      @TheTrueEvilSpud 4 місяці тому

      You guys are huffing paint
      ua-cam.com/video/yDicGBTRp1Q/v-deo.htmlsi=NmHBHVxMvx8mbtT4

  • @doesntmatter4136
    @doesntmatter4136 4 місяці тому

    What do you mean 'there are 4 startup s'? Do you mean 4 startup frames before the s kick in, which is what we already knew, or do you mean the first 4 frames are s? If it's the latter, then how does agility affect them?

    • @Domo3000
      @Domo3000  4 місяці тому +2

      That's a typo. Should just be startup frames without the i

    • @doesntmatter4136
      @doesntmatter4136 4 місяці тому +1

      @@Domo3000 oh okay. then yeah we already knew that. still the ds1 stuff is wild.

  • @dizzyhungry
    @dizzyhungry 4 місяці тому +1

    Would also love for backsteps to regain their s!

    • @Rosy_bun
      @Rosy_bun 4 місяці тому +9

      well they do in ER. but you have to buy the DLC. then get to the DLC. then find a hidden talisman that reduces your defense by 15% and uses up a talisman slot

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому +1

      They are in Elden Ring via a talisman... You don't know what your talking about.

    • @Domo3000
      @Domo3000  4 місяці тому +9

      ​@@egg_64.in DS2 you can jump while standing if you equip the Butterfly Wings, but that's not comparable to having jumps by default in Elden Ring
      Similarly backstep s that you gain at the very end of the game by equipping a talisman are not the same as just having s by default

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому +2

      @@Domo3000 That's not at all related to my point, I am clearly just stating that they are in Elden ring. Even though they are different doesn't mean it isn't in the game.
      I really don't know why you are arguing against my reply as if my reply wasn't just a statement. This is a Weird argument that you've made up in your head.
      No shit they aren't the same but saying that Elden ring doesn't have any at all is really disingenuous so ofc I am going to correct the person who made the comment because they are objectively wrong. If they made it clear that they were talking about a non-dependent way to make Backsteps have I-frames, then I wouldn't have said what I said. But considering they are fully in the wrong here, your response makes no sense when my reply was objectively right.

    • @SimpleGratia
      @SimpleGratia 4 місяці тому +7

      @@egg_64. It’s pretty clear that when people say they want backsteps to regain their s, they mean getting them back as a core mechanic by default. It wasn’t a good idea to remove them in the first place.
      The first commenter most likely just didn’t feel the need to point out that this talisman exists.

  • @AtreyusNinja
    @AtreyusNinja 4 місяці тому +3

    Domo i believe u r busy doing your stuff but, there is this recent video " Why Does Everyone Hate Dark Souls 2? " from the youtube channel "Joe Gella" he said too many BS after a while i closed the video, he didn't know about the counter attack thing and the sweet spot thing and he was complaining because apparently "in DS2 u do sometime certain amount of damege" etc etc he said too many wrong things in his video, he even complained that in amana certains enemies r hidden in the water, like cmon man.... that's part of the beauty of amana...
    so if u ever got some free time pls give a check to that video, love u man.

    • @Domo3000
      @Domo3000  4 місяці тому +2

      @@AtreyusNinja thanks, will take a look!

    • @AtreyusNinja
      @AtreyusNinja 4 місяці тому +2

      @@Domo3000 thank you domo for your time

  • @C_O_N_C_E_P_T
    @C_O_N_C_E_P_T 4 місяці тому

    Elden dlc has brought back backsteps with a talisman. How many frames are they?

    • @michaelcarroll5801
      @michaelcarroll5801 4 місяці тому

      It was nerfed to 7 s, I can't recall pre-nerf.

    • @C_O_N_C_E_P_T
      @C_O_N_C_E_P_T 4 місяці тому

      @@michaelcarroll5801 I thought it was only nerfed for PvP. Did pve actually get those changes too?

    • @michaelcarroll5801
      @michaelcarroll5801 4 місяці тому

      @@C_O_N_C_E_P_T I believe so

  • @zelaznytytan
    @zelaznytytan 4 місяці тому

    I'm suprised for how long it took to finally
    check game data, especially since people like Zullie the witch datamine the games

    • @zelaznytytan
      @zelaznytytan 4 місяці тому

      You would think it should've been first priority, but I guess people prefer funny models and lore

  • @mateusfolletto6142
    @mateusfolletto6142 4 місяці тому

    So, you telling me that Ds2 has a better roll than Ds1 and Ds3 if you level your stats to increase agility instead of pumping everything into strength to unga-bunga?

    • @Teiske
      @Teiske 4 місяці тому +1

      You are telling me I have to put points to a start, so I can properly roll through attacks? What great game design, why would they drop this and not return it in later games? /s

  • @atlaswastakenistaken
    @atlaswastakenistaken 4 місяці тому +3

    wait so equip load just doesn't matter in ds1?

    • @Domo3000
      @Domo3000  4 місяці тому +33

      It still does.
      We all accepted the false information that fat rolls have 9 s and fast rolls 13, because they simply do feel better - even if the invulnerability window is the same.
      The distance you cover and how fast you can act again after a roll also matter, and fast rolls are much better than fat rolls in these aspects.
      And well, ninja flips require a lot of equip load, and they are just miles better than other dodges.

    • @atlaswastakenistaken
      @atlaswastakenistaken 4 місяці тому +1

      @@Domo3000 ahh, okay. that makes sense, thank you. this genuinely changes a lot. bless, m8.

    • @elk3407
      @elk3407 4 місяці тому +21

      Rolling further is as important as more i-frames because the less time you and the attack intersect, the more lenient the timing. This is very important to learn if you ever play Monster Hunter, and is applicable here too

    • @unrefinedmorosis5546
      @unrefinedmorosis5546 4 місяці тому +5

      Even if it doesn't affect i-frames, it does affect movement of the roll. So for example if you roll with heavy or medium rolls away from the same attack, they have the same invincibility period but a heavy roll is less likely to get you out of the attack hitbox by the end of that period.

    • @Ashlevon
      @Ashlevon 4 місяці тому +2

      Equip load affects how many recovery frames you'll have after the instability frames end. Instability (extra damage) frames happen after the invincibility frames end. It's only a 1 frame difference per equip load breakpoint within each roll type, minimum of 1 and max of 3 recovery frames, but it's there. Also the breakpoints are every 8.33% or 16.66% equip load, depending on roll type.

  • @darkschneider5269
    @darkschneider5269 4 місяці тому +1

    So what gives you perfect i frames in ds2 so you don't get hit easily

    • @irpanfauzi1160
      @irpanfauzi1160 4 місяці тому

      there is 3 Method of Dodge at DS2 Strafe-Roll-Backstep

    • @sirweenielick8534
      @sirweenielick8534 4 місяці тому

      I wanna say it’s 14 or 15 adaptability.

  • @catarro8045
    @catarro8045 4 місяці тому +1

    When we will have a voice reveal?

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому +4

      Why?

    • @catarro8045
      @catarro8045 4 місяці тому

      @@egg_64. Why what?

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому +1

      @@catarro8045 Why do you want a voice reveal? like why does it matter? he probably doesn't have a good voice or mic, I don't know why a voice reveal really matters.

    • @CallN0w
      @CallN0w 4 місяці тому +4

      @@egg_64. from what i have gathered Domo is German and I can attest to the pain of being an ESL person and understanding things perfectly and then trying to speak out loud and sounding like a complete moron

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому +1

      @@CallN0w Yeah for sure, thats why I don't really know why people want a Voice reveal. Just kind of weird when it doesn't really matter that much.

  • @snakaroo
    @snakaroo 4 місяці тому

    I like watching your videos but the AI voice is slightly off putting, I really wouldnt mind it if you had a low quality mic with your regular voice, would make it all come off more natural I think, no hate or disrespect just a suggestion and its all up to whether youre comfortable with it or not.

  • @dragons_advocate
    @dragons_advocate 4 місяці тому

    It would have been nice if you could have elaborated a bit more...

    • @Domo3000
      @Domo3000  4 місяці тому +1

      On what exactly? I just wanted to show the amount of s and don't see much that I could elaborate on

  • @TheMagnificentMoose-s7y
    @TheMagnificentMoose-s7y 4 місяці тому +2

    ds1 has backstep i frames, people are just bad. they are very nice for follow ups in pvp and in pve, they work very well against thrust attacks for the fast follow up. i always use them against artorias, ornstein and gwyn. for pvp they are also good for follow ups and can be used to get out of stunlocks from most weapons. the timing is extremely tight, just GET GOOD (idk about ds3)

    • @Xeno_Solarus
      @Xeno_Solarus 4 місяці тому +3

      Yeah, but the I frames suck.

    • @TheMagnificentMoose-s7y
      @TheMagnificentMoose-s7y 4 місяці тому

      doesn’t mean they can’t help in a pinch. You can follow up as well with a roll. You also can use them to get away from attacks that you would get hit by if you rolled. So they are pretty handy and it’s euphoric when you do a full dodge with one

    • @JellyJman
      @JellyJman 4 місяці тому +3

      A whopping 4 frames...

    • @sirweenielick8534
      @sirweenielick8534 4 місяці тому +2

      What even is the purpose of using it in PvE? You’re better off going for a parry or simply positioning yourself to avoid the attack. Seems like too high a risk for about the same reward.

    • @TheTrueEvilSpud
      @TheTrueEvilSpud 4 місяці тому +2

      Backstep->attack combo is a joke in PvP, only way you can land it is immediately after a parry. 99% of players will see you backstep and move laterally or put up their shield. If you seriously time a backstep to avoid an attack, it begs the question of why you wouldn’t just parry the attack. It gets style points, I guess.

  • @WeirdTroll666
    @WeirdTroll666 4 місяці тому

    bruh

  • @EinSilverRose
    @EinSilverRose 4 місяці тому +2

    I get it. Adaptability is a dumb stat and it isn't explicitly explained but after over a decade anyone can look for the resources needed to learn what they can about Adaptability.
    Leveling up is also a non-issue in DS2 since in the early game survivability isn't bad and your damage output is still low on top of upgrading weapons having a much larger effect over leveling up an offensive stat.
    You can easily beat the Dragonrider, Last Giant and the Pursuer early on, pop their souls and power level Adaptability until you have 100 Agility and then dump the rest into Vigor and Endurance and you're set for the rest of the game. I think it only becomes an issue early on if you're dead set on using heavier weapons and armor.

    • @TheMagnificentMoose-s7y
      @TheMagnificentMoose-s7y 4 місяці тому +7

      adp is literally just a difficulty slider, base adp isnt even that bad its viable

    • @Xeno_Solarus
      @Xeno_Solarus 4 місяці тому +8

      It isn't a dumb stat I'm tired of the slander

    • @TheMagnificentMoose-s7y
      @TheMagnificentMoose-s7y 4 місяці тому +3

      @@Xeno_Solarus better than fucken luck

    • @Domo3000
      @Domo3000  4 місяці тому +10

      ​@@TheMagnificentMoose-s7y RES still takes the crown for worst stat
      A useless stat in a game with high level up costs and no way of resetting your stats

    • @TheMagnificentMoose-s7y
      @TheMagnificentMoose-s7y 4 місяці тому

      @domo3000 I forgot RES was a stat lol

  • @ksterlings197
    @ksterlings197 4 місяці тому

    Bro got 245 videos and 3k Subs... I'd be the same if I was an Indian in Austria using Voice AI so I could hide myself.

  • @Guardianshrine
    @Guardianshrine 4 місяці тому

    We already knew all of this but its nice to see a youtuber showing it off

    • @michaelcarroll5801
      @michaelcarroll5801 4 місяці тому

      The wiki writers and everyone relying on the wiki did not know this. So by "we" you must be referring exclusively to redditors (go back)

    • @Guardianshrine
      @Guardianshrine 4 місяці тому

      @@michaelcarroll5801 which wiki are you using? Im pretty sure wikidot should have this info

    • @Guardianshrine
      @Guardianshrine 4 місяці тому

      @@michaelcarroll5801 and no i dont mean reddit, theres a lot of cool folks over at the dark souls discord server that have done a lot of datamining

    • @Domo3000
      @Domo3000  4 місяці тому +8

      @@michaelcarroll5801 even on the Dark Souls subreddit the vast majority of users cite the 9/11/13/15 numbers

    • @Domo3000
      @Domo3000  4 місяці тому +4

      @@Guardianshrine the wikidot page for the Dark Wood Grain Ring mentions that it raises the s from 12 to 14

  • @egg_64.
    @egg_64. 4 місяці тому +3

    Most people know this, I don't know how you didn't...

    • @JellyJman
      @JellyJman 4 місяці тому +17

      Considering the fextra page and fandom wiki page have the incorrect information it's not that surprising people don't know this

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому

      @@JellyJman Pro Tip: Don't use Fextralife 👍

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому

      @@JellyJman Pro Tip: Just don't use fexralife! It's not that hard 👍

    • @Xeno_Solarus
      @Xeno_Solarus 4 місяці тому +8

      Uh, no. Lots of people didn't know this.

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому

      @@Xeno_SolarusNo. This is well known in the core souls community, just because fextra is wrong doesn't mean everyone took their word like it was the truth.
      If you didn't know about this then that's fine, but don't act like people don't know this just because you didn't.

  • @Stangrex
    @Stangrex 4 місяці тому +1

    can you start using your own voice sometime

    • @AtreyusNinja
      @AtreyusNinja 4 місяці тому +14

      What If he dont want ?

    • @Swuh
      @Swuh 4 місяці тому +24

      This is domos real voice

    • @Stangrex
      @Stangrex 4 місяці тому +1

      @@AtreyusNinja then he doesn't have to, just asking if he could

    • @saysalla
      @saysalla 4 місяці тому

      ​@@Stangrexit would be pretty hard to mock mauler if they sound even worse and the AI voice is fits well for defending dark souls 2 which feels like an AI-generated game

    • @Stangrex
      @Stangrex 4 місяці тому +6

      @@saysalla what?

  • @Hecklemysheckel
    @Hecklemysheckel 3 місяці тому

    ADP is still trash tho

  • @darthcopper7341
    @darthcopper7341 4 місяці тому

    So you proved nothing with this video, but dark souls 2 Christian die hards. Who claim that souls 2 is the best game, even though it proved it has the nothing going for it, but powerstance.

    • @vanilla.icescream
      @vanilla.icescream 4 місяці тому +14

      why so angry? did the dark souls 2 cultists kidnap and murdered your family?

    • @CallN0w
      @CallN0w 4 місяці тому +10

      christian?

    • @michaelcarroll5801
      @michaelcarroll5801 4 місяці тому +2

      Christ is king lmao cope and seethe

    • @darthcopper7341
      @darthcopper7341 4 місяці тому

      @@vanilla.icescream ah, the usual elitist who can’t phantom why souls 2 suck, but instead attack someone for not having your opinion on dark souls 2 being the perfect game it is! By the way, that’s how you sound by not giving actual reasoning behind why souls 2 is ok, but acting high and mighty for disagreeing with your preference in the series.

    • @duckchen2676
      @duckchen2676 4 місяці тому +4

      dark souls 1 - judaism
      dark souls 2 - christianity
      dark souls 3 - islam
      bloodborne - atheism
      sekiro - buddhism
      elden ring - hinduism

  • @vj7248
    @vj7248 4 місяці тому +1

    backstep s came back in Elden Ring DLC via talisman. and all the 'NO HIT PROMISED CONSORT' ive noticed all use it cus the backstep is very useful.

    • @Rosy_bun
      @Rosy_bun 4 місяці тому +12

      yeah at the cost of 15% of you defenses. and a talisman slot. stiff price to pay for something that was default in ds2

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому +1

      @@Rosy_bun Ok? The backstep I-frame tali in Elden Ring is OP, I think the 15% is a little bit warranted.

    • @Rosy_bun
      @Rosy_bun 4 місяці тому +1

      @@egg_64. it grants 7 s. in ds2, 87 agility is enough to get 8 backstep s. that's 8 ADP. some classes start with more than that. and they don't get a defense nerf or a ring slot wasted for it. in fact, they gain status effect resistances as a natural result of leveling ADP. it's not a worthless talisman, but it certainly isn't good. particularly compared to DS2's backstep set up.

    • @egg_64.
      @egg_64. 4 місяці тому +3

      @@Rosy_bun No. If you don't do challenge runs you don't understand clearly, because the tali is really fucking good in Elden Ring.

    • @Rosy_bun
      @Rosy_bun 4 місяці тому

      @@egg_64. sure thing, buddy, keep telling yourself that.