Top Wrap your Les Paul!?! How dare you!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- In this video, I'm taking a look at the myth, the legend, they controversy of the Top Wrap!
One of the ongoing discussion topics seems to be the advantages or disadvantages of the standard string-through or top wrap of a stop tailpiece style guitar. Why did players like Duane Allman, Jimmy Page, Billy Gibbons, Joe Bonamassa and others prefer this setup?
Having never tried it before, I take my Les Paul Special and top wrap it, and you know what? I like the way it feels...a lot.
Thanks for checking out my video. Please share and subscribe!
www.eddieheinzelman.com
www.onelouderguitarservice.com
Mojo! As Felix x notes below, fundamental physics dictates that the note played by a plucked string is a function of the string length, string gauge and string tension between the nut and the saddle. Changing the break angle after a saddle simply changes the distribution of forces at the saddle; a bigger break angle equates to an increase in the downward force on the saddle but this does not change the tension in the string between the nut and saddle for a fixed note. If you simply raise the tailpiece to reduce break angle, the string length is reduced a little and the tuners have to be tweaked to tighten the strings back into tune and vice-versa. Very basic physics.
The difference in string length from the mid point of the top of a tailpiece and normal front hole to the saddle is minimal, maybe 3 or 4 extra mm for top wrapping, so the impact of slinkiness due to the extra stretch of a string from tuner hole to tailpiece hole/top mid point is minimal. Jimmy Page's double neck is the exception, where the tailpiece is a long way from the bridge. Sliding of the string across the nut or saddle is not a good thing; especially on the round-wound strings. This is why some of our LPs are infamous for pinging at the nut and going out of tune.
I tried top wrapping once just to see what it felt like. Palm muting feels a little different as you can feel the strings a little more due to the shallow break angle. Otherwise my guitar played and felt the same as always. It is very apparent that most guitar players simply do not know fundamental physics; that's OK. It is not hurting anyone but if anyone is interested in understanding things a little better, just Google forces and vectors; grade school mathematics. Top wrapping is definitely better for an old, ABR1 as it will reduce the tendency for the bridge to collapse. Make your guitar your own and have fun.
A collapsed bridge is what me start top wrapping some of my guitars. Helps keep the strings of the back of the bridge.
I find that top wrap on an SG is really worth it. All of my SGs seem to have a fair amount of neck angle. They are the batwing pickguard type, 2007 and 2011.
Instead of top-wrapping, I used 2 metal washers as spacers between the tailpiece and body. The tailpiece is higher for a spongier feel and the posts don't wiggle.
That's an interesting workaround. The beauty of it all is whatever works for each player! Rock on!!
I love those guitars. I’ve got the 2012 with the baked maple fretboard. It’s a fantastic guitar, and I do top wrap it too. Plays and feels great. Will never sell it.
I’ve gone back and forth with this and still prefer to top wrap, it makes 10’s feel like 9’s.
Exactly! And I have 60years experience to back the claim!
So, don’t top wrap, and use 9’s. Gotcha.
@@zerofoxgavin1286 It's not just about feel, Chris Buck did some testing and the tone was significantly different on the top wrap Les Paul. To many viewer's/listener's ear's the top wrap was a fuller warmer tone, the through the tail piece it sounded cooler, so for some this may be a factor in their decision. One commenter said it sounded more " womanly ".
I have an SG with a high performance neck but I never liked playing it and gravitated towards my Ibanez just because it's more fun to play. Did a top wrap with 11- 43 cobalt strings and dropped the whole action down 1/4 and it feels so much better now. It will be put back on my guitars that get love rack now :)
Fun seeing someone realize the benefit of top-wrapping live on a guitar you're familiar with.
I'm biased in favor, so it seems to me like the ones who don't like top-wrapping are the ones that never tried it.
IMO, Pros: better feel/string bending, less or no strings breaking, better sustain, reduces bridge collapse.
Cons: scratch or wears tailpiece, some strings may have sharp edge (I don't have this problem with D'Addario XLs - same as on Melody Maker wraparound bridge)
Yeah, I see where the "science" behind it is that the tension is actually higher, but I admit, it doesn't feel the same and does feel a bit easier to bend, maybe that's mental games, but I still dig it. Thanks for watching!!
I started top wrapping my double cut LP special years ago and haven’t gone back. And, I agree, P-90s are rad.
I definitely think I'm going to keep this one like this. I'll play with the action some.
@@EddieHeinzelman I tried top wrapping my Gibson SG guitar before and it causes terrible buzzing plus if you screwed down the stop bar the tension becomes incredibly tight and the action is stiff thus making the guitar impossible to play so I'm not sure how those other players can play their guitar like that ?
@@davidallen346 it all comes down to preference. I like it on this guitar. Don't know if I would on another. And I think it's cool to try different setups and then have different guitars setup for different functions. Rock on, man!!
A point that most people seem to miss is that while the tension of the string for a particular note will be the same regardless of whether you top wrap a stop bar tailpiece or not, or use a trapeze bar tailpiece, the distance that you must bend a string to reach a particular note will change. Essentially, the more string that exists past the nut and the saddle, the further you need to bend the string to reach the same tension to achieve the same note. This is why it feels different to play.
Correct.
however, as stated below, creating a shallower break angle over the bridge will reduce the distance between the tailpiece/bridge/nut therefore decreasing the length of the string overall....
@@nicholaspentecost713 Compared to the overall string length past the nut and past the bridge, the amount of change in total string length past the bridge and nut due to the break angle difference will be minimal. Top wrapping will increase the string length past the nut and bridge a little bit, but at the expense of more friction from the string over the tailpiece. But a shallower break angle over the saddles will reduce the friction, so the total difference in friction difference may be a wash. What I would suggest is that a combination bridge/wrap tailpiece may be the better option. I'm going to try a bridge/wrap tailpiece on my Melody Maker first. If I like it I may convert my ES-335, as I don't like the trapeze tailpiece.
I think the wrap around corrects a hidden design flaw, top wrapping is the only way to string your Les Paul.
The thumbnail had me waiting for Julian Assange to give guitar me tech tips
Tried it on my Gibson Les Paul. One thing that doesn't really get mentioned is that strings break more easily. In fact, a top wrap introduces an almost 180 degrees angle near the tailpiece that sort of puts a kink in the string. The risk of having a string break during a live show is not worth the (perceived ?) improvement on sustain or playability to me. Just my 2 cents.
Strings in my lp copy were breaking more often while top wrapped.Ive tried lot settings of tailpiece,and the best for me is just a little raised from the body (5 to 7 mm).
Take the ball ends off the old strings and run your new strings through them then string the guitar, it created a spacer to keep that tight angle off the string end windings. Seems intuitive that the area where you have more string material would be stronger but it isn’t.
Another FOR vote here! I do it on my Epi P90 Special and LP Studio. I also have a couple Special I models with one-piece wrap-over bridge tailpieces that 'top-wrap' by design and are great fun to play. I realize it's not exactly the same thing but some of the same mechanics are at work and it's where I got the idea. Then I found out on numerous YT videos that it's actually a thing many other people have done, including some major top-tier players. So why not give it a whirl, you're in good company. If you try it and don't like it, go back to the standard way. Doing this on my two-piece tail/bridge guitars has made them nicer to play, for me. Did not have a tuning stability problem so nothing there to improve on, but I bend strings a lot and use some finger vibrato generally and I just feel like they play easier top-wrapped. I have never broken a string either way btw, in almost 50yrs playing guitar. I use 9-46 Hybrid Slinkys. Try this method, you might like it! I feel I get more sensitive response from my strings by topwrapping. And these guitars sustain all day anyway, even the bolt-neck Specials, so if I've lost a little sustain it's not a problem. If it plays nice, who cares about the chrome on your tailpiece? If you sell the guitar just put a new stopbar on it or knock $25 off your price. Geez!
I'm with you. I actually use 9-42 strings. Did this video and then with no touring, I haven't been playing this particular guitar as much, but it definitely feels nice to play. And yes, many players top wrapped in the past or still do so I really don't know why it causes such a disagreement online. Thanks for checking it out and dropping a comment!
I would consider trying this, but am actually going to install a Bigsby. Nice explanation and demonstration.
I top wrap because of tuning stability . I also love the feel of it . Thanks for the awesome video
Been top rapping LPs, etc. for decades. When I discovered this yea years go and heard and felt the improvement, that was it. It's a very simple thing and totally reversable.. Everyone should give it a try and see what happens. I never understood why it's a controvery.
I have top wrapped for over 15 years, since I started I have not broken a string. The angle feels rad and I will do this till I die on all 15 of my Gibson’s
I always found the argument of some people that a steep break angle is better because it puts more downward pressure on the bridge, to be silly. The bridge is screwed into a solid body - the downward pressure doesn’t matter the way it would on a hollow top. And I know from experience with Bigsby and similar types of vibratos, that a shallower break angle after the bridge causes less tuning issues when using the vibrato bar.
Thank you for your video! I agree that it somehow feels "softer" to bend. The only thing that others videos don't mention, but you somehow did, is that top wrapping is going to mark ans scratch the tailpiece. I suppose we just have to live with it, isn't it? Cheers!
With the new nashville bridge it is a little wide and the strings touch the back of the saddle and cause string breakage and to much angle puts to much pressure on the bridge that over time can collapse.
Each guitar is different as in neck angle... so that being said the idea is to keep your strings off the back of the bridge
If you can't it's better to top rap than to raise your tail peice..it's a compromise not enough brake angle can lead to another problem also like string coming off the saddle if you are heavy handed picker... but in all the hype it is a cool factor too.
And top wraping makes your strings feel like less tension...440 is 440 some guys say..
2:15 It does NOT affect the tension of the strings! Tension is directly related to pitch. It is impossible to have equal scale length with equal pitch at different tensions.
I top wrap all my Les Pauls. I did it because I was testing to see any benefits (sustain/playability etc.) and found I just preferred the aesthetic and the slight decrease in tension - it also got rid of the unsightly gap between the tailpiece and body.
Did I hear a sustain difference? Not particularly. Playability? The strings felt a little slinkier but nothing to write home about. What I did notice most was the tuning stability was increased.
Many ages ago, I had a LP Custom, about a 72 model, and the bridge collapsed. About half of my Gibson's are top wrapped. Just depends if it is needed to help keep the strings off of the back of the bridge.
If you like it then that should be all that matters. I don’t understand why some people get so worked up about things like this.
I completely agree. Every guitarist has a different preference. Do what plays good and sounds good to you. Thanks!
10:03 ... try it, you don't like it? Go back .... you won't hurt my feelings, it's your guitar! ...
Exactly!!!
Very cool, Eddie!! I'll probably try it on one of mine when they come home!!
It's cool. I look forward to giving it a real test live, but I feel a difference.
There is less tension and friction on the bridge and nut. Freeing the strings to be more flexible and easier to stretch and bend. the top wrap also gives it more tone clarity and sustain in my opinion. Anybody who has a Epiphone or Gibson really should consider trying this. It makes a huge difference in playability. Playing it live I can tell you for a fact it keeps tune very well.
Top wrap is great, but if you play hard, it might not be a good option
A light touch player like myself I love it
I can see him popping the strings out of the saddles with that set up
Thanks for the advice. I was hesitant to try this but I think I will now. I was concerned my action would change but you said it didn’t affect it (action) at all. Thanks.
I will try it next strings. Thanks for sharing bro.
I waited patiently after the top wrap while you played unplugged, telling you to plug it in!! I wanted to hear the comparison with unwrapped plugged-in sound. Did you listen to me? No! Are you deeeaf?
Just raise your tailpiece to adjust playability. If your Les Paul doesn't have decent sustain it's not a very good one. You shouldn't need to screw the tailpiece down to the body. If this seems to be an issue then add washers.
I may need to try this next time I restring my LP.
I couldn't really check the sustain element, but I can see a bit of it even unplugged. I think I'll leave this guitar this way. Less stress on the hands is a good thing.
Cool. No one has ever asked me to do that. I'll try it though
I've always overwrapped. I didn't know it was a controversial thing.
great video..I think that If you rise the tailpiece in standar mode you have the same angle break that topwrap if you want. The only question is only if you have more sustain or not? do you feel more sustain?
I believe so. I need to go back and play this one more. I've been playing other guitars most recently, but we're going to start touring again in Oct and this will be the p90 I take.
I just raised my tailpiece, they made these screws long enough to do this. I can't tell the difference in the sustain . This definitely helped the playability and the sustain. I know it has to help the longevity of the strings.
used to top wrap when I had an Epiphone les paul. once I got an actual Gibson, I never tried to top wrapped it. I just didn't like the scratches it made. also the bottom strings sometimes came out of the grooves on the bridge. might try 9s on the les paul one day.
Summer into winter? Don’t you have Fall in your part of the country?
Just a simple top wrap made my 7k CS LP Play more like a 20K one. Tone improved too. Replaced the Stop bar to a Faber and that definitely improved tone. Plus now I do not have to worry about damaging the original. I am playing my LP more after top wrap and that's the best thing about the whole top wrap, for me.
The ONLY reason i top wrap is that on my SG guitars it the tail piece would be excessively high to clear the back of the bridge if I didn't. I have not noticed the tone or playability changing one way or the other.
Gonna try this .....
I love my SG now, top wrap rocks
I did my newest addition, a Firebird 70s Tribute with the stop tail top wrap and I think it add a lot of tone. “Brang “ chords are now “BRRRAANNNGGG”. Even unplugged I can hear and feel a difference.
Not a fair analysis because the break angle is affected by the action height and the fretboard height. Your guitar and the low action does create a very shallow break angle. Not so on all guitars.
I know its wrong, but I have an irrational dislike of top wrapping AND Les Paul Specials lol
Thus the reason I speak about this being such a volatile topic online. ha ha
If it’s good enough for Joe bonamassa and the reverend Billy then it’s good enough for me. Also… it just looks cooler
Holy shit the amount of string buzz, you play like that?!
I've bn over wrapping my Les Paul for more than 30 years?
Soft was the word I was thinking before you said it, just from the way your hands seem to be too strong on that little lick.
That is very close, you might have a problem, lets see. So two years later are you still top wrapping?
A few days ago I was thinking about a child hood friend in the 80's who had that very same model with Humbuckers. Probably the same colour as well, wild. Hey Robbie!
Top wrap the first three strings and leave the heavier three strings through the tailpiece. Best of both worlds…
Are there people in this world who get upset about what someone does with their own guitar?
There are washers under the tailpiece on my Epiphone Les Paul '61 reissue SG, which came that way. So the tailpiece is all the way down, but raised by the washers to be slightly higher. That seems to be a better solution?
Added les trem to my les Paul and roller saddle this also reduced break angle, I think that relieves some tension weight on strings, was thinking try my Ibanez butnthier new gilbaltar quick change tail piece doesn't allow top wrap. As rather than holes thru for strings it has channeled slots on tail piece place string quick chage
I'm a little afraid of trying this on my Les Paul custom. The tailpiece came from the factory already lowered down to the body. It came with 10-46 strings but those are too heavy for my fingers at standard tuning so I replaced them with 9's. Even though the tailpiece was already lowered down the break angle isn't that much and the 9 set feels very slinky as it is. I'm afraid to do this because I don't want even less tension. I do prefer low action though so maybe I'll try it. Thanks for this video!
Thanks for checking out the vid! Agree - it may not be for everyone. I don't normally do this on my guitars either but was a fun experiment. I have a couple other LP's or LP style guitars strung the regular string through way so right now, this is the only one I have like this. Rock on!!
But than they do have slide open truss rod covers too
Top wrap 11's!
He there…. Unrelated question…. I was in the army band with a heinzelman. Are you 2 related.
Not directly that I am aware of, but I would imagine we may be way back somewhere
Has anyone ever top wrapped a Jet V tail?
The main advantage of top wrapping is that you can easily identify a person who has no clue of physics.
Adding a second ball end makes re-stringing a total pain In the ass. They get stuck in the tailpiece.
The laws of physics say that top wrapping makes NO DIFFERENCE to the tone of your axe. Any perceived difference is purely subjective.
I think it is more of a feel thing they used to do it back in the day
because the bridges would eventually collapse under string tension.
Are you a Wizard?
Yes.
what ? you top wrap a 9-42 ? must be spaghettis now
What about intonation?
The intonation is determined by the saddle location on the bridge, not as much the tailpiece as long as the string angle is accurate. But the trick I use for intonation is I temper my guitars instead of the straight across 12th fret method usually.
@@EddieHeinzelman Temper?????
Dumbass me thought youre going to wrap the guitar body ( the top only, thinking the guitar had a natural wood underbelly ) ...🤣