Loved the episode. Definitely shared. It's amazing how many speak of Heaven and Hell like some fantasy lands. It's often no wonder why so many leave the faith or want nothing to do with it when it's presented in such Disney manners.
In summary: you are in the presence of God for both heaven and hell. Heaven is responding to God's love and his presence fills us with joy. Hell is rejecting God's love, so his presence is painful for us.
Writing as someone new to learning about Orthodox Christianity, which I came across while I've also been considering Catholicism. I just wanted to say that this is seriously SO good and I'm very grateful to have found your channel. This explanation of heaven and hell rings of such devotion to God that my heart sings!
Hell wasn't prepared by God for humans (who are created according to His image), but "for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25,41). So the natural afterlife "place" for humans should be Heaven! But, unfortunatelly, many Christians believe that going to Heaven is an "automatic process" based on their status as Church members, or a "prize" they get due to a typically "good" attitude. Nevertheless, both approaches are deceptive, because our living relationship with God must start from present life, not afterlife! The sense of God's continuous presence is needed to be felt by us here and now! In order to have a better understanding of what Heaven & Hell is all about, think of God as the sun: It shines the same for everyone, but only those who are (by their own choice) used to be under the daylight find it pleasant to look at it (John 8,12). Those who are (again by their own choice) used to be under the darkness of sun's absence feel their eyes burnt as they look at it (John 3,19). We shall all come to stare at the "Sun of Justice" - Jesus Christ - one day (1 John 3,2)... Let us be well prepared for that! (Romans 13,11-14) GOD wants us in Heaven, SAINTS want us in Heaven, ANGELS want us in Heaven, WE want ourselves in Heaven. Wouldn't be a pity for us to end up, due to carelessness, where devil want us, in Hell? p.s: When an old monk was asked "what should I do in order to go to Heaven?" answered: "Focus your thought on Heaven throughout your whole life and you will reach there without even notice it!"
@@HA-gu1qk God desires the salvation and life. The question is: do we all want it? This about more than just morality (or apparent morality; we often confused "goodness" and "niceness"). When we come face to the face with the Lord, will we embrace Him? Or will we run away? That's what this is about. Not God rejecting certain people. The question is whether we will reject Him.
@@HA-gu1qk I mean, why did the devil and his angels fall? Why does anyone choose to sin? Again, Christianity is about more than morality. The thief on the Cross, after a lifetime of murder, chose Christ. He wasn't a good man by any stretch: But Jesus tells us that he entered the Kingdom. And again, you're framing things in terms of God "rejecting" people like the Dalai Lama. As I've said a few times, it's about the exact opposite: it's about whether or not we reject God.
@@HA-gu1qk We trust in God's mercy. We will all one day come face-to-face with the Lord. When Jesus died on the Cross, He spent 3 days in the tombs. He came face-to-face with all those who had died before Him. God doesn't punish us because we were born at the "wrong" time or in the "wrong" place. Again, hell is less a punishment and more our desire to flee God.
@@HA-gu1qk I'm not saying he would. I'm not saying anyone would. The Church can point to saints, but we can't point to anyone and say "that person has definitively rejected God."
@@HA-gu1qk Christ is our savior. We are only saved through Him: He is the vine, we are the branches that need to be grafted onto the vine so we can have life. So it's not that only "true Christians" are saved. We are only saved through Christ. Do we know that the Church is the Body of Christ and the Way of Salvation? Yes. Does that mean that Christ isn't working to save all people, even if they aren't part of the Church in an obvious way? Not at all! For "God our Savior desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:3-4)
Wow where does a person start with your heretical teaching ? how about on heaven and hell, Heaven The Jewish mind set, The first heaven refers to the atmospheric area of the fowl (Hosea 2:18) and clouds (Dan. 7:13). The second heaven is more likely the area of the stars and planets (Gen. 1:14-18). It is probably, though not for certain, the abode of all supernatural angelic beings. The third heaven is the abode of the triune God. Its location is unrevealed. Matt. 23:34-37, Luke 10:20, and Rev. 22:2, 20-27). Hell Hell is the future place of eternal punishment of the damned including the devil and his fallen angels. There are several words rendered as Hell: Hades--A Greek word. It is the place of the dead--the location of the person between death and resurrection. ( Matt. 11:23, 16:18, Acts 11:27, 1 Cor. 15:55, Rev. 1:18, 6:8). The Master (JESUS CHRIST) Says: Matthew 25:46 These (The unrighteous) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
I just noticed this old comment. That may be the Jewish mindset, but it doesn't make it true. Any system that somehow limits God (present in all places and filling all things) to a specific place or abode, the location of which is unrevealed, is inherently flawed.
@@stevenchristoforou1667 hello, I am a Lutheran christian and I have a question regarding the orthodox views of heaven and hell. Since we are all going the same place and heaven and hell is an expression of how we experience God's presence does this mean that those are experiencing heaven can see and walk amongst those who experience hell? How is our relationship to each other after the resurrection?
@@cop2998 That's a great question, and I'm not sure of the answer. We know we're brought together in Christ. As for what that looks like, we'll know when we see it. God bless you!
Hell is a place of eternal fire (Matt. 25:41, Rev. 19:20). It was prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41) and will be the abode of the (wicked = (unregenerate people)) (Rev. 21:8) and the fallen angels (2 Pet. 2:4).
I think I’m starting to get the theology of orthodoxy a little bit more. I’m still confused on what they think about the after life though. So hell is not a place at all? Thank you in advance when you guys have the time to answer.
Christ is Risen! Yeah, don't think of hell as place you go. The question is how do we continue to open our hearts to God's love, and how do we come to love Him more?
Steven Christoforou Forgive me for being slow to understand but why did Christ talk about hell so much? I know that it isn’t literal fire because those are metaphors he uses to describe something worse. Idk where I’m going with this sorry I honestly feel really confused! Lol
@@rw-oh8ix It's ok to be confused! I don't think any of us can guess why Christ said what He did (and how He did it). Maybe it was the kind of image people needed to motivate them? Just like kids sometimes need to be reminded of a punishment to keep them in line, maybe we need to be kept on the right path in a similar way. We can be very spiritually immature, even when we're adults.
Hmm...honest question: What about the verse in 2 Cor 12:2 where St. Paul says, "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know-God knows." And also how the devil and his angels will get thrown into the lake of fire. Are those not indicative of an actual place or dimension? (I'm new to Orthodoxy.)
Orthodox Christians do believe that when we depart our bodies we go to Paradise to wait in joy, consciously, the resurretion. The liturgies and prayers for the dead do ask God to take their souls to that "place" where sorrow and weeping have fled away and to raise their bodies also. St. Paul also saw the third heaven which is vertai ly another "storey".
What precisely happens after body and soul are separated is a mystery. There is a pious hope that we wait for the resurrection in joy, but I don't think this is a dogmatic statement. For all we know, we may close our eyes and open them again at the General Resurrection. In a sense, the details of what happens in between are irrelevant: the ultimate goal is the Kingdom, and it's ok to not be sure about what happens before we experience it in its fullness.
Steven Christoforou Souls Sleep is also what the Jehovah's Witnessses and other heretics believe. It is not the teaching of the Bible or the Orthodox Church. We ask for the prayers of the saints currently in Paradise and awaiting the resurrection.
I really don't know why we're so worried about what happens where and when. John tells us about a first resurrection in Revelation. Will we all experience that? Who cares! We'll rise again at the General Judgment, and while we have breath we'll pray for those who came before us. Let's be ready when that last breath comes and goes. This whole thread seems incredibly fruitless to me. Maybe I'm missing some concern or fear?
The Theotokod St. Mary, St. Paul, the Apostles, the myriads of saints, and the Faithful Orthodox who have departed this world are conscious, joyful and enjoying paradise, a foretaste of heaven and continue to pray and intercede for us. If this were not the case then our Divine Liturgies, Doxologies, and prayers make no sense.
@@stevenchristoforou1667 There seems to be a spectrum of opinions on toll houses from literal to figurative, from "they are important to keep in mind" to "don't think about them." What are we to make of it all?
@@anharmyenone True. To be honest, I wouldn't worry about toll houses, or what the "process" looks like after we die. It seems to lead to a lot of unnecessary worry. Focus more on loving the Lord and on loving the people around you. Pray, fast, give alms. Connect with a spiritual father who can help you on your journey. God bless you!
From what i know/believe Paradise is another phrase for Heaven. However, people seem to believe it is a place you go to while waiting for heaven to be opened. Would love for this to 'bee' addressed.
Steven Christoforou Hi! I feel like the music can be a little distracting. In your videos you are discussing some profound ideas that are really thought provoking and interesting. However the music is a little loud and light hearted and conflicts in a sense with the content. Im not sure what kind of music to replace it with, but maybe if it were quieter it wouldnt be so distracting.. Anyway, like I said Im enjoying your content.
Thank you for this! In the previous video, you said this week you would explain how God saved us from death. Can you explain how the Incarnation, life, death, and resurrection of Christ accomplished this?
Love this video and all the others so much! Thank you and may God continue to bless your work + On a side note, with Pascha coming up, I'm getting a lot of questions about why our Easters are different. I know you're on a role right now with connecting themes, but maybe a thought of another video in the future :)
The most responsible answer here is: it's hard to say. There is lots of speculation, but no definitive answer. And that's ok: our ultimate goal is the Kingdom. It's not an obstacle to our salvation if we don't know what happens between our death and the Second Coming. Now I'm going to push back on the question a bit. If nothing else, keep in mind that God is bigger than time. We move through time in a linear way, from past to future. God isn't constrained in that way. So who knows what "immediately" means, in this context. Does that make sense?
Again, it depends on what you mean. All will be saved in the sense that nothing (and no one) that God has created will sink back into the nothingness from which it was made. Will everybody be saved in the sense of enjoying their contact with God? That's up to us. We can hope for this, and pray for this, but can't state it as a fact. Does that makes sense?
+Ellis Farrow In what sense? I think most Orthodox Christians would say that living things evolve over time, that life on Earth has changed significantly over millions of years. But that may be an overly-general answer that doesn't answer your question.
Is it true that you can end up in hell if you love you parents more then god oh if you can't chose between the two. Please answer it would be really help if you can give me dome perspective.
It's not really a choice between the two. Our love for anyone is ultimately rooted in our love for God, who welcomes us all into His Kingdom and grants us eternal life. Without God, everything ends. Including our relationships with our loved ones, because we all die. But in Christ we have life everlasting, and relationships that won't end because our lives won't be cut short. So don't feel like you have to choose. Just remember that our love of God allows our love for our parents (and others) to be true and eternal. God bless you!
@@A.D.540 Yes, but we have to understand what these verses mean. It doesn't help us to take isolated verses without being able to understand them. Love your parents. Pray for them. And know that God is merciful. He loves both you and your parents. May His love for all of you welcome you into His Kingdom.
@@stevenchristoforou1667 this is the quote from Mathew: Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Hi I know this is an old video but I hope anyone can answer me this question. So once we die then we no longer have the choice to choose Gods love instead of rejecting him? Is it because we are in his full presence which is overwhelming for us?
Great question! We need to be clear on what freedom is. Sin is not an expression of our freedom. In fact, it's a form of slavery to our passions and desires. In the Kingdom, we will be free to be who we truly are. It's not that we "no longer have the choice" but rather are truly free to love Him without the things that get in the way (anger, pride, etc). Does that make sense?
@@stevenchristoforou1667 Yes it does and that sounds great but what I mean to say for example if someone that has rejected Christ their whole life dies, do they have to option to accept God now that they are in his presence?
@@yolandatejedor214 The important part of this is "rejected Christ." God is merciful. And a person may have rejected, not Christ, but the idea of "Christ" he received from other people. And we can pray for those who have passed, for their repentance.
So from my basic understanding of orthodox Christianity, heaven is our lord and savior Jesus Christ's kingdom. And that is why when we lose loved ones we ask that they be remembered eternally in his almighty kingdom. And that's when we go to heaven. Right?
+bigzack1011 then you are saying that God is dead! You're an atheist! If you do not believe in the reality of the Saints, nor do you believe in the possibility of man being restored to its original state, being like god since being made in the image of God thus the Saints, then my friend you are very close to atheism. Those that partake of the divine nature are alive in Christ cause he's life! (2peter 1:4)
This becomes a language issue. Christ didn't descend into "hell" (the state of punishment which awaits the demons after the Judgment). He descended into "hades." And again, be careful about being too literal with a word like "descended."
It's good to ask questions! I'm not sure I can offer you a super precise answer. We can certainly imagine it as a place, though I couldn't tell you where that place is. All we know is that people were subject to death: our souls and bodies were separated with no hope of resurrection. And that Christ defeated death by His own death, so now we can rise with Him.
If this is true, then where did Jesus go when he descended into Hell after the crucifixion? Where did His physical body go when He ascended into Heaven?
We miss the point when we frame the question in terms of "where did He go." For example, Jesus physically ascended in heaven, yes. And yet He's not gone. He hasn't left us.
Blessed Steven, Peace and grace to you in Christ. Do you believe that your consciousness ceases to exist upon death? Do you believe that your inner man/ your soul/ your spirit/ does not go consciously into the presence of Christ to be present with him when it leaves your body, that it ceases to exists or is unconscious until the Resurrection of the body? If so, is this the universal teaching of the Orthodox Church?
I don't think God lets anyone cease to exist. He desires the salvation and life of all. As for what exactly happens between the moment of our death and the Second Coming, we can't say for sure. And that lack of precise knowledge is ok: we await the resurrection of our bodies and life in the age to come.
Great video ...but what happens to ungodly people after they die ...do they suffer ? And what happens to the ungodly people after judgement .. Are they thrown in a literal lake of fire. Im confused because it sounds like you're saying heaven and hell is a state of mind .
Fire turns wood to ash. But it makes gold glow. The question for all of us is: are we open to God, or do we reject Him? That can be complicated. An "ungodly" person who rejected Christianity in this life may have had bad experiences (and is rejecting those experiences rather than God). We can pray for everyone. And do our best to be humble, loving, and prepared.
@@mems_a Yeah, that's a good way of describing it. Or, even more than that, we turn blesses into curses. We don't just block them away, they actually become something that "hurts" us.
@@stevenchristoforou1667 So once you are in hell, you cannot repent? You have to be there forever trillion of years and suffering and God is fine with that... seems like a loving God. We didnt even ask to be created, and apparently we are sick and commanded to be well, well in this case I wish I would have never been born then.
@@pabloh5884 It's not quite so simple. But we pray for the dead. And for each other. God isn't "fine with it." Again, this suffering is our rejection of God. Imagine you're drowning, and someone tries to give you oxygen. And you keep pushing them away. That's what hell is. It's not a punishment someone gives us. It's a punishment we impose on ourselves.
@@pabloh5884 Sin. When we chose hate over love; selfishness over generosity; grudges over forgiveness. To use an extreme example (in order to clarify): the saints embrace God, while the demons reject Him.
Hi Steve, can you please help me understand what St. John the Chrysostome is referring to, in the mnimosino service, when we hear prayers such as: "Των Αγίων ο χορός εύρε πηγήν της ζωής και θύραν Παραδείσου,εύρω καγώ την οδόν δια της μετανοίας", "Ανάπαυσον, ο θεός τη δούλη σου, και κατάταξον αυτήν εν Παραδείσω, όπου χοροί των Αγίων Κύριε, και οι Δίκαιοι εκλάμψουσιν ως φωστήρες", "Συ ει ο Θεός ημών, ο καταβάς εις Άδην,και τας οδύνας λύσας των πεπεδημένων...", "..Κύριος ο Θεός τάξη την ψυχήν αυτής ένθα οι Δίκαιοι αναπαύονται, τα ελέη του Θεού, την βασιλείαν των ουρανών", " Κύριε, ανάπαυσον την ψυχήν της κεκοιμημένης δούλης σου -ς, εν τόπω φωτεινώ, εν τόπω χλοερώ, εν τόπω αναψύξεως, ένθα απέδρα οδύνη, λύπη και στεναγμός." We can read about "Gate of Paradise" where the The Saints have found the source of life, meaning that such a place currently exists. We read that the Saints and the righteous shine bright. We read that our God "descended" into Hades, meaning there is lower level. We read about Kingdom of Heavens being a resting place for the righteous. We also pray for the soul of the "sleeping loved one" to rest in a bright place, a refreshing place and a place without sorrow or sigh, definitely not earthly conditions. How does John the Chrysostome correlates to the "Orthodox belief of one story Universe"? Thank you!
Great question! First, remember that language is limited. It can reveal but, if we're not careful, it can also confuse. For example, did Christ really "descend" into a lower place? Or is that a term that refers, not to geography, but rather the depth and despair of Hades? Also, remember that time is a weird and non-linear thing in the Church. Every feast of the Church celebrates the great event as happening "today;" Christ being born, crucified, resurrected, etc. In the same way, we can use present-tense language to describe something that may not be, in a linear sense, from the "future." Remember that Christ resurrected both body and soul. Whatever happens to our souls after they are separated from their bodies, that's just a temporary state. And we can't be too sure about what exactly happens then (though various saints and others have experiences and ideas). What matters is that we will rise, both body and soul, on the Day or Judgment when Christ comes again. We will have our bodies, but they won't be "earthly" as we currently think of that. "Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells." (2 Peter 3:13)
Hi Steve and thank you for the reply. I completely understand and agree with you that there is no specific geographical space to designate hell or Hades for that matter. Also I completely agree with the notion that Hades is a place of despair, however we are told every Sunday that there is a direction. Greek Orthodoxy describes in detail what happens with our mortal bodies and with our immortal souls. We know when a person dies the body goes to a deep sleep, thus we bury it in a ce-me-te-ry (κοι-μη-τή-ριον). The soul however is found in a crossroad. We repeatedly pray after the death "νεκρώσιμος Ακολουθία", during "τριήμερα", "εννιάμερα", "σαρανταήμερο", etc, for the soul to ascend and God to forgive and accept it in His Heavenly Kingdom. If souls are accepted in Heaven, we know that they are conscious and active, the amount of activity depends on the sanctity of the soul. Our Church during the year devotes many hymns and prayers to the very active souls of Saints. We pray (Apolytikion) for Saints to advocate for us before God, "...Άγιε, Μεγαλομάρτυς Δημήτριε, Χριστόν τον Θεόν ικέτευε, δωρήσασθαι ημίν το μέγα έλεος". Many times we ask specific Saints themselves to help us, "Άγιοι Ανάργυροι και θαυματουργοί, επισκέψασθε τας ασθενείας ημών, δωρεάν ελάβετε, δωρεάν δότε ημίν". The existence of above Kingdom is also supported by the Priest inciting the clergy to have their hearts directed above ('Ανω σχώμεν τας καρδίας). All the above prove the existence of an active Kingdom established above us, in the heavens, thus cannot be a geographic destination but it is obviously a direction. Having that in ming, it is clear why Saint John the Chrysostom, a well educated man and Ecumenical Patriarch of his time, chose the word "descend" in his liturgy. Greek language is limitless. He could have picked from a variety of words, indicating that the soul remains in a state of void or despair in the same level with the living. Words such as "αἰώνιο κενό" or "αἰωνίa στάσις", could have been chosen to indicate the stagnated state of the soul. However, he did not pick such words or similar, instead he chose to designate the location of Hades with a direction. All my notes above are derived from Church Liturgies, they are not in any case my doctrine or ideology. I address you not as a theologian, because I am not, rather as a simple parishioner who was puzzled by watching your video. Although I understand you are trying to clear up common ideas about heaven and hell, simultaneously you manifest an idea that is in contrast to what Orthodoxy preaches on any given Sunday and on many other occasions. Respectfully.
"However we are told every Sunday that there is a direction." Yes, but we have to understand what these words mean (and what they don't). Hell isn't under our feet in a literal sense, any more than heaven is above our heads. If it was, could we dig in the ground until we found it? I appreciate your comments, and I want to ask a question to help clarify. Do you know the Hymn of Kassiani? We hear it for Matins of Holy Wednesday. In the hymn, St Kassiani places herself in the position of the sinful woman who cleaned the Lord's feet with her hair. She says they are the very same feet that Adam and Eve heard in the Garden. How could they hear the feet of Jesus if He had not been born yet? Time, I hope you can see, does not necessarily work as we expect it to. In Christ, the same can go for the saints. The saints act among us because God's eternal Kingdom has broken through into our moment in time. In other words, it may be that more than just the souls of the saints are active, even if we have not yet made it to the Second Coming. Because time does not necessarily act the way we expect. So don't worry too much about words like "above" and "below," or "before" and "after." Pray for all. Trust in the Lord.
Hi Steve, "...ὧν ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ Εὔα τὸ δειλινόν, κρότον τοῖς ὠσὶν ἠχηθεῖσα, τῷ φόβῳ ἐκρύβη." According to our Greek Orthodox tradition and the fourth book of Georgios Hamartolos the chronicler, this line of the troparion of Kassiani, was written by Emperor Theophilus. That's a discussion for an other time though.... Your question I cannot answer in essence, because I was never in Paradise to know nor I ever met St. Kassiani. However, what I know is that Jesus never tried to hide his physical existence even before his birth by Mary, in contrast he was very profound about it. We can read that in John 8.58: " εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς· Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί." . Jesus is very precise here, leaving no room for interpretations. I can see this passage being an inspiration for St. Kassiani,at the time she composed her beautiful troparion. In regards to our previous topic, again, all my ideas come from Sunday Eucharist and other church liturgies, thus if "we could dig in the ground until we find it" is a question you have to ask St. John the Chrysostome. He is the one who wrote, " ....ο καταβάς εις Άδην", "Άνω σχώμεν" and "την βασιλείαν των ουρανών". I do not expect time to be other than what my Church and the fathers preach to be. Thus once again, your video controverts him, so I simply ask you, is he right or is he wrong. Should we take him literally and join the priest in the prayers or should we ignore the priest? If these are words which we shouldn't "worry too much about", then why did you make the effort to create this video? Why didn't you, just rely on pray for people to find the truth? I appreciate you taking the time and I applaud your bravery for touching on this subject. Respectfully.
I have a question, if hell doesn't exist then what is Hades? If Hades is a place are there people there now or once Jesus descended into Hades it's no longer being used?
The Father of Orthodoxy, St. Athanasius calls ouur souls immortal, not because of themslves but because wills it so. We shouldn't shy away from doing the same.
but what about when Christ mentions hell to the Pharisee? or when he gives the parable and says "depart from me into the eternal fire reserved for the devil and his angels"? sorry just a little confused on this. it's great but it's a different from what I'm used to completely.
The Master (JESUS CHRIST) Says: Matthew 25:46 (These (The unrighteous)) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” False teachers, Teach falsely.
Razamaniac Luke 17:20-21 20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.” Doesn't say this ''the kingdom of heaven is inside us'' You MUST be Born-Again. John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” And that is from above. John 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Hell isn't the place we see described in pop culture: as if it's some other place away from God. Hell is a way we can experience God. If we don't love God, then His loving embrace will be something we hate.
@@stevenchristoforou1667 Woah! Mind blown...different to the way I've thought about it (Catholic here) but it actually makes a lot of sense. It's the traditional imagery that's presenting an issue for me...visions saints etc. have had that seem to point to the souls in hell 'going' somewhere separate to those in paradise...I guess I find it difficult to imagine the souls in paradise being amoung souls who are in torment (due to rejection of God)? The souls in paradise being cool with seeing the souls in torment around them? Not that my ability to imagine something says anything about it's accurcay lol
@@stevenchristoforou1667 just the idea that there isn’t an actual lake of fire. I was raised Catholic, so that’s what I was raised to believe. Also it’s so cool that you responded to my comment! Would you open to chatting about Orthodoxy? I’ve been watching your videos since I was 13 (am 19 now) was
God didn't make this earth to be destroyed, you're right. In the book of Genesis, He made all things and called it 'good'. However, we also know sin came into the world through Adam and Eve and thus the fall happened - in this world we see sickness, death etc because it is a fallen world. But how come the Eastern Orthodoxy doctrine doesn't believe in the old earth passing away? Verses like these are clear this fallen earth won't just be restored but our Triune God will actually destoy and recreate it: Revelation 21:1 (NKJV) - “Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea." (Key words - NEW heaven and NEW Earth, first earth had PASSED AWAY) I'm aware the book of Revelation is highly symbolic however looking at other books in the word of God, we see of the same 'new earth' being spoken of and not in the context that this old one will be restored (rather we will reside on an entirely new earth with our God). Here are some other verses regarding the same matter from other books (Isaiah 65:17-19, 2 Peter 3:13, Isaiah 66:22) However, this is my main concern. The belief that hell and heaven aren't literal geographical places (whether spiritual or material) distorts a lot of what Scripture says. Not only is that a problem, but if I'm not understanding wrongly the Orthodoxy belief that 'hell and heaven are a response to His unconditional love' also doesn't make too much sense biblically. I come from a Hindu background before Christ so hearing this, while I COULD BE COMPLETELY WRONG (so if so, please educate me with biblical proof), this seems extremely similar to their viewpoint. Now while I DO know God is referred to as a consuming fire in Scripture (Hebrews 12:29, Deuteronomy 4:24, 9:3, Isaiah 33:14), Hell is said to be a literal place you can be CAST into (Revelation 19:20) and Jesus Himself said things like "It is better for you to enter life lame than having two feet, to be CAST into hell, into fire that will never be quenched" and that in this hell there are "WORMS who do not die" (Mark 9:44-48). All of this is literal, there is nothing symbolic about weeping and gnashing of teeth where worms feast on the flesh of the burning inhabitants of hell eternally. Knowing all people will be resurrected for the Judgement, we also know ALL of us will have glorified bodies. However, those in Christ will have glorified bodies where sickness, death, sin and all these things shall never exist in us again and unbelievers will be eternally PHYSICALLY tormented with these now eternal bodies. Now hell being a place separate from where believers reside does NOT contradict God's omnipresence. Revelation 14:10-11 tells us the unbelievers will be tormented in the PRESENCE of the Lamb and the smoke of their torment ascends forever. Isaiah 59:2 shows us our iniquities HIDE God's face and He does not hear us. Does that mean God loses His all-knowing attribute? Of course not. Sin is just so evil in the eyes of the Most High that He refuses to SHINE HIS FACE on sinners who do not repent (this is why we can have hindered prayers when we for example haven't forgiven someone). The lake of fire is a place designed for satan and his angels but for the unfortunate humans who will go there, they go by their own free will. He respects their choice of not wanting to be in His presence by rejecting our Lord and Saviour so out of His love He sends them to a place where He most certainly exists but NEVER SHINES HIS FACE there. It is important to note that Abraham tells the rich man (concerning heaven and hell) 'there is a great gulf, so that those want to pass from here to you CANNOT, nor can those form there pass to us' (Luke 16:25-27 NKJV). While God is love, He most certainly is Holy and Just. The angels in the Heaven don't worship Him saying 'love, love, love' even though that is Who He is by His very nature, they worship Him saying "Holy, Holy, Holy" (Revelation 4:8, Isaiah 6:3). This means while He has unconditional love for us all, He must punish iniquity and thus unrepentant sinners must be cast out to outer darkness. God displays His love by respecting the decision we make with the free will He gave us like you said but I believe Scripture shows us how He does it whilst maintaining His other natures as 'Holy and Just'. If I'm not misunderstanding, the Orthodox doctrine believes we will all be in His presence together but one suffers the consequence of not accepting His love while the other rejoices in His infinite love. This directly contradicts the Luke verse from above where it tells us we do NOT exist together in the same location, where we are separated by a 'great gulf'. I'm aware this is BEFORE the Judgement however the point still stands that while we will live with our Loving God and Saviour, unrepentant sinners will cry out for help from the unquenchable fire yet God will not turn His face their way. Now with my concerns mentioned and questions asked, I'd also like to ask another question. It seems some Eastern Orthodox Christians DO believe in a literal hell and heaven. Are there diverse denominations within the Orthodox church? At the end of the day, as long as you believe the Word of God took on flesh, shed His blood on the cross and died on the cross for our sins and on the 3rd day He (the Son of God) rose from the dead, you're all my brothers and sisters in Christ. However, while I am interested in the Orthodoxy beliefs some doctrines are holding me back. It is important to note that even from an early point of my salvation by the grace of our Lord Jesus (I have been born again for 9 months now), I was led to the Eastern Orthodoxy Trinity doctrine which was PERFECT and I couldn't agree with it more. Currently, I identify as non-denominational but I would appreciate if any of you could answer my questions with biblical proof. I also avoided any mention of church fathers and their writing because I'm unfortunately uneducated on that matter, feel free to help me out! God bless you all in abundance, I hope my line of questioning didn't come across as too offensive!
So even as states of being for the soul - do you imply that all the references to a spiritual place made by Jesus - including the eternal lake of fire / darkness or the paradise in which He existed with the soul of the thief after death - are just fiction? Also the reality described by saints - it's all just mad-man inventions? There's no existence for the soul after death?
There is existence for the soul after death. Yet it's important to remember that the soul, just like any other created thing, only exists in its connection to God. It is not by its nature immortal. Death is a mystery. We haven't experienced it, so it's hard to speak of it in too much detail. We know that we look forward to the resurrection of the dead. We know that God loves us unconditionally, and that we are capable of choosing to reject that love. "Lake of fire," "paradise," etc. are not man-made inventions. Yet these are, by themselves, just words. And we need to be careful about understanding them properly; they are words that attempt to communicate realities we have not experienced.
We do not have a soul. Moses said that a human body mixed with the spirit (God's breath) makes a soul. So we ARE souls. And the spirit is the breath in our lungs. We sleep in the grave until Jesus returns.
Beyt Yet Jesus said that it is okay to eat the foods that were illegal in the Old Testament because he said it simply passes through your body and doesn't taint your soul because your soul isn't your body. Another one of those unfortunate Scripture contradictions, but I put more stock in the NT :)
Zach Baird Jesus never said that. The context shows that he was talking about BREAD, NOT MEAT. If Jesus did say that it was okay to eat unclean meats, his disciples would have left him immediately. Moses said if one comes saying not to keep any of these laws, then he is a false messiah.
Moses is from the OT and not per say Christianity. I find it interesting that so many Christians put too much stock in the OT, disregarding how Jesus overturned most laws from, for example, Leviticus. This includes the eating of various meats: it is okay to do so because it doesn't taint your soul. Moses, who was Jewish, and the Jews, and Muslims as well, all believe the body has to be pure, because the soul is the body or resides within the body in a fundamental way. Hence, when you eat pork, you taint yourself. Jesus said this isn't necessary because the soul moves on afterwards, and the pureness of the soul isn't determined by what you eat but rather by the actions you take. He said something to the effect "What goes into his mouth does not matter for it goes through his body and leaves, but what comes out of his mouth does matter because that comes from his heart." (not exact quote).
It sounds like you're following some of the errors of Alexander Kalomiros. And the view that heaven and hell are not places, is not biblical. Sheol/Hades is pictured in the Bible as the netherworld below the earth, where souls go when they die and leave the body.
It is very depressing to think of the possibility that when we close our eyes we are unconscious in death and practically don't exist or feel the love of God until the resurrection. In a sense wwe are Atheists without God between death and the resurrection. Thankfully the Orthodox Church and faith is opposed to such a view. We ask the saints to intercede and pray for us because they are conscious and joyful in Paradise. This is not specilation. This IS Orthodoxy. The intermefiate state between physical death and resurrection is part and parcel of our Orthodox Faith in the resurrection. No martry? no Christian in antiquity or the present goes to their deaths believing they will cease to exist and be unconscious forcthousabds of years until the resirrection. Of this is the case then death is still to be feared... and contrary to Liturgical Texts death is. ot a departure for Christians but a real cessation of life. Those few Eastern Orthodox who espouse such views are an very small minirity who have gone astray in trying to fight platonism that they have completely skewed the true teaching of the church tegarding the power of the Resirrection... which extends to the opening of paradise and the immefiate joyful life of the Triumphant Church in Christ awaiting the resurrection.
St. Athanasius, the Father of Orthodoxy states that the soul, being immortal by God's grace, "converses with the saints and angels who are beyond earthly and bodily existence, and approaches them in the confidence of the purity of its intelligence ; shall it not all the more, when separated from the body at the time appointed by God Who joined them... much more shall its life continue after the death of the body, and live without ceasing by reason of God Who made it thus by His own Word, our Lord Jesus Christ. For this is the reason why the soul thinks of and bears in mind immortal and eternal things, namely, because it is itself immortal. And just as, the body being mortal, its senses also have mortal things as their objects, so, since the soul contemplates and beholds immortal things, it follows that it is immortal and lives for ever. For ideas and thoughts about immortality never desert the soul, but abide in it, and are as it were the fuel in it which ensures its immortality. This then is why the soul has the capacity for beholding God, and is its own way thereto, receiving not from without but from herself the knowledge and apprehension of the Word of God." St. Athanasius, Against the Heathen, 32 - 33. "Prayer: O God, You have given us an immortal soul which distinguishes us from irrational creatures. Help us all to safeguard it from evil influences"
This actually sounds a lot like Oneness philosophy... there is no Heaven & Hell... it's all in your mind. If you're tortured in your mind, you go to your own personal hell. If you are loving and happy, and love God, you go to your own personal Heaven. I feel you should have mentioned the devil here, because without the devil, it seems like everything is ONE, neither good nor bad, just perception, which is very New Age spirituality: So all is one, and there is no evil and God loves Hitler and Mother Teresa the same. Can you please elaborate if I'm on the right track or missing something?
Good question. This isn't oneness philosophy. God is Good. God is the source of Life. To pull away from Him is to sink into evil (and death). The devil is real. He has chosen to try to flee God. But he can't: God is everywhere present and filling all things. God does love everyone. But we don't all love God.
Steven Christoforou Thank you fir sharing this knowledge. And thank you for being a friend in this journey with Christ. You have helped me more than I know. God bless the Orthodox Church ☦️
Steven Christoforou Are you planning to become a priest? I wish you were. The church and the world needs more people like you. Since coming into Christianity, I’ve never met so many unloving, unempathetic, spiritually unknowing and judgemental people. I’m not pretending I’m a Saint either, but you are one of the only kind, loving and very spiritually knowledgeable Christians I’ve ever met. I’ve been searching in Protestantism and Catholicism and it seems the Orthodox are the most loving. At least the few I’ve talked to. The only Catholic I know that is kind is my significant other. But we need people like you as a Father. Please consider it. There are so many people hurt by religion out there that you can help heal. Me included.
So, where do you go when you die? And where did Jesus Ascend? I thought Gnosticism died. To be a good Christian you serve Jesus without reward of Heaven, but just to serve Him even if that means in Hell. Jesus owns the keys to Heaven and Hades.
I think a better way to put it is: the point of our life is to be united with God. That is what He created us for. He wants to be with us, and when we obey His commandments to serve others, we draw closer to Him.
Hell is a place where God isn't. It's eternal not of this world. It's a place of judgement for the ungodly. Anything that says otherwise is unscriptural.
With respect, I'd suggest it's deeply unscriptural to suggest there's a place where God is not: Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? 8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there. 9 If I take the wings of the morning, And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, 10 Even there Your hand shall lead me, And Your right hand shall hold me. (Psalm 139:7-10)
Steven, That verse is just one verse from the bible and it's referring to here on earth. But has nothing to do with what Jesus spoke about in Revelation 20:5 "And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." Is God with then also in the fire too? If so why if they've been cast away from him? " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? ' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness! ' Matthew 7:21-23
"That verse is just one verse from the bible and it's referring to here on earth." This is a strained interpretation. The Psalm is magnifying God, who knows our thoughts and is present in all places. To say that it refers merely to earth misses the point. What you're doing now is interpreting the Scripture. Based on what, though? "But has nothing to do with what Jesus spoke about in Revelation 20:5...Is God with then also in the fire too? " Of course God is in the fire! The question is: how do we respond to the fire? You're denying a rather core confession, that God is omnipresent, by arguing that there are places He is not. You're unintentionally limiting God, denying His infinitude, making Him circumscribed and defined rather than infinite.
Hell was a place made for the Devil and the demons so I do not believe it is a place God chooses to hang out when it's intended to keep them away from him. The whole point of Hell is punishment and a cutting off from those sentenced there from his presence thats why Jesus came as Saviour to save the lost both in this life and the one to come. Jesus said that on that day "many will say to me Lord Lord........ depart from me...."! I think its clear to say that when God says "depart from me" - you are removed from God completely and forever, there's no going back. So to make a video and say its all about this life and nothing of the one to come then I would say you are in error of the scriptures. "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 We are talking about the perishing side of rejecting Christ and many are going to perish according to Jesus words..... "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it." Matt 7:13
"I do not believe it is a place God chooses to hang out when it's intended to keep them away from him." I'm not sure how you can apply "place" to God, who is bodiless and infinite. I'm also not sure how anything can exist if it was truly and fully cut off from God, since He is the source of all existence. Your comment raises a lot of theological problems that both (1) limits God and (2) raises certain parts of creation to self-sufficiency / self-existence. "The whole point of Hell is punishment and a cutting off from those sentenced there from his presence thats why Jesus came as Saviour to save the lost both in this life and the one to come." This is far from clear, which is why we're having the conversation. On its face, treating hell as a place separated from God seems illogical. If hell is full of people who long to be close to God, then what are they doing in hell? If it's full of people who hate God and want to escape Him, then how is it a punishment?
This video seems to be teaching psychopanachia (soul death or soul sleep). This is not Orthodoxy. The soul is conscious after physical death. St John Cassian: The souls of the dead not only do not lose consciousness, they do not even lose their dispositions - that is, hope and fear, joy and grief, and something of that which they expect for themselves at the Universal Judgement they begin already to foretaste… They become yet more alive and more zealously cling to the glorification of God. And truly, if we were to reason on the basis of the testimony of the Sacred Scripture concerning the nature of the soul, in the measure of our understanding, would it not be, I will not say extreme stupidity, but at least folly, to suspect even in the least that the most precious part of man (that is, the soul), in which, according to the blessed Apostle, the image and likeness of God is contained, after putting off this fleshly coarseness in which it finds itself in this present life, should become unconscious - that part which, containing in itself the power of reason, makes sensitive by its presence even the dumb and unconscious matter of the flesh?” (First Conference of Abba Moses) St John Chrysostom: Do not say to me, ‘He who has died does not hear, does not speak, does not see, does not feel, since neither does a man who sleeps.’ If it is necessary to say something wondrous, the soul of a sleeping man somehow sleeps, but not so with him who has died, for [his soul] has awakened. St John Maximovich: Many appearances of the dead have given us to know in part what happens with the soul when it leaves the body. When it no longer sees with its bodily eyes, its spiritual vision is opened. This frequently occurs even before actual death; while seeing and even conversing with those around them, the dying see that which others do not. Leaving the body, the soul finds itself among other spirits, good and evil. Usually it strives towards those which are more akin to it, but if while still in the body it was under the influence of certain spirits, it remains dependent upon them when it leaves the body, no matter how unpleasant they might prove to be at the encounter. St Adomnan writes of St Columba: One day he suddenly looked up towards heaven and said: ‘Happy woman, happy and virtuous, whose soul the angels of God now take to paradise!’ One of the brothers was a devout man called Genereus, the Englishman, who was the baker. He was at work in the bakery where he heard St. Columba say this. A year later, on the same day, the saint again spoke to Genereus the Englishman, saying: ‘I see a marvelous thing. The woman of whom I spoke in your presence a year ago today - look! - she is not meeting in the air the soul of a devout layman, her husband, and is fighting for him together with the holy angels against the power of the enemy. With their help and because the man himself was always righteous, his soul is rescued from the devils’ assaults and is brought to the place of eternal refreshment. ...we also have the Homily on the Departure of the Soul by St Theophilus, which is in agreement with St Athanasius, St Cyril. We have the prayers of St Basil for those souls even in Hell. We do indeed have a constant and almost universal witness to the belief that the souls exist without flesh in this intermediate state. The fact that a few may be found who say otherwise does not diminish the authority of the teaching of the Church. It is not the teaching of the Church either that souls do not exist or that they sleep or are unconscious.
The video does no such thing. Before simply accusing someone of heresy (especially when you're hedging right from the start and saying it "seems to be" saying something it's not), perhaps try a different approach. For example: "Hi! Thanks for the video, though I have a question. It seemed like maybe you were suggesting X. Is that true? Could you clarify? Forgive me if I misunderstood."
Loved the episode. Definitely shared. It's amazing how many speak of Heaven and Hell like some fantasy lands. It's often no wonder why so many leave the faith or want nothing to do with it when it's presented in such Disney manners.
In summary: you are in the presence of God for both heaven and hell. Heaven is responding to God's love and his presence fills us with joy. Hell is rejecting God's love, so his presence is painful for us.
Exactly. ua-cam.com/video/S6oQGfJYH3g/v-deo.html
Writing as someone new to learning about Orthodox Christianity, which I came across while I've also been considering Catholicism.
I just wanted to say that this is seriously SO good and I'm very grateful to have found your channel. This explanation of heaven and hell rings of such devotion to God that my heart sings!
Glory to God!
Best simple explanation I’ve ever heard.
Glory to God!
I'm Assyrian Deacon from Orthodox this was very nice loved it.
Great explanation Steve, God bless you :-D
Very well explained!
Thanks for making this video.
Hell wasn't prepared by God for humans (who are created according to His image), but "for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25,41). So the natural afterlife "place" for humans should be Heaven! But, unfortunatelly, many Christians believe that going to Heaven is an "automatic process" based on their status as Church members, or a "prize" they get due to a typically "good" attitude. Nevertheless, both approaches are deceptive, because our living relationship with God must start from present life, not afterlife! The sense of God's continuous presence is needed to be felt by us here and now!
In order to have a better understanding of what Heaven & Hell is all about, think of God as the sun: It shines the same for everyone, but only those who are (by their own choice) used to be under the daylight find it pleasant to look at it (John 8,12). Those who are (again by their own choice) used to be under the darkness of sun's absence feel their eyes burnt as they look at it (John 3,19). We shall all come to stare at the "Sun of Justice" - Jesus Christ - one day (1 John 3,2)... Let us be well prepared for that! (Romans 13,11-14)
GOD wants us in Heaven, SAINTS want us in Heaven, ANGELS want us in Heaven, WE want ourselves in Heaven. Wouldn't be a pity for us to end up, due to carelessness, where devil want us, in Hell?
p.s: When an old monk was asked "what should I do in order to go to Heaven?" answered: "Focus your thought on Heaven throughout your whole life and you will reach there without even notice it!"
@@HA-gu1qk God desires the salvation and life. The question is: do we all want it?
This about more than just morality (or apparent morality; we often confused "goodness" and "niceness"). When we come face to the face with the Lord, will we embrace Him? Or will we run away?
That's what this is about. Not God rejecting certain people. The question is whether we will reject Him.
@@HA-gu1qk I mean, why did the devil and his angels fall? Why does anyone choose to sin?
Again, Christianity is about more than morality. The thief on the Cross, after a lifetime of murder, chose Christ. He wasn't a good man by any stretch: But Jesus tells us that he entered the Kingdom.
And again, you're framing things in terms of God "rejecting" people like the Dalai Lama. As I've said a few times, it's about the exact opposite: it's about whether or not we reject God.
@@HA-gu1qk We trust in God's mercy. We will all one day come face-to-face with the Lord.
When Jesus died on the Cross, He spent 3 days in the tombs. He came face-to-face with all those who had died before Him.
God doesn't punish us because we were born at the "wrong" time or in the "wrong" place. Again, hell is less a punishment and more our desire to flee God.
@@HA-gu1qk I'm not saying he would. I'm not saying anyone would.
The Church can point to saints, but we can't point to anyone and say "that person has definitively rejected God."
@@HA-gu1qk Christ is our savior. We are only saved through Him: He is the vine, we are the branches that need to be grafted onto the vine so we can have life.
So it's not that only "true Christians" are saved. We are only saved through Christ.
Do we know that the Church is the Body of Christ and the Way of Salvation? Yes.
Does that mean that Christ isn't working to save all people, even if they aren't part of the Church in an obvious way? Not at all!
For "God our Savior desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy 2:3-4)
Thanks Steve love your videos awesome
I love these videos; right to the point and interesting.
Steve, Thank You, Never looked at it quite that way! 🙏🌺☦️🌺🙏
Don't miss last week's episode on Heaven and Hell, and look for a new episode Thursday! #BeTheBee
Wow where does a person start with your heretical teaching ? how about on heaven and hell,
Heaven
The Jewish mind set, The first heaven refers to the atmospheric area of the fowl (Hosea 2:18) and clouds (Dan. 7:13). The second heaven is more likely the area of the stars and planets (Gen. 1:14-18). It is probably, though not for certain, the abode of all supernatural angelic beings. The third heaven is the abode of the triune God. Its location is unrevealed. Matt. 23:34-37, Luke 10:20, and Rev. 22:2, 20-27).
Hell
Hell is the future place of eternal punishment of the damned including the devil and his fallen angels. There are several words rendered as Hell: Hades--A Greek word. It is the place of the dead--the location of the person between death and resurrection. ( Matt. 11:23, 16:18, Acts 11:27, 1 Cor. 15:55, Rev. 1:18, 6:8).
The Master (JESUS CHRIST) Says: Matthew 25:46 These (The unrighteous) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
I just noticed this old comment.
That may be the Jewish mindset, but it doesn't make it true. Any system that somehow limits God (present in all places and filling all things) to a specific place or abode, the location of which is unrevealed, is inherently flawed.
Awesome episode!
May God Bless You And Your Family, Amen☦️❤️✝️
Wow, you really get me thinking, and now I know how scary God is, so everyone out there, be careful of what you do! God know all
Be not afraid!
Be the Bee #120 | Should I Fear God?
ua-cam.com/video/vGpKf6Rlm9g/v-deo.html
Steve, thanks a lot for your job! Greetings from Russia!
Pray for us!
@@stevenchristoforou1667 hello, I am a Lutheran christian and I have a question regarding the orthodox views of heaven and hell. Since we are all going the same place and heaven and hell is an expression of how we experience God's presence does this mean that those are experiencing heaven can see and walk amongst those who experience hell?
How is our relationship to each other after the resurrection?
@@cop2998 That's a great question, and I'm not sure of the answer. We know we're brought together in Christ. As for what that looks like, we'll know when we see it.
God bless you!
Thank you. I just read a post asked "who rules the hell" and the author seems look the “hell” a place to live. Should share this episode to him :)
Hell is a place of eternal fire (Matt. 25:41, Rev. 19:20). It was prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41) and will be the abode of the (wicked = (unregenerate people)) (Rev. 21:8) and the fallen angels (2 Pet. 2:4).
This was excellent!!!
Thank God!
yeah light goes on awesome explanation
I'm glad the video was helpful, thank God!
I think I’m starting to get the theology of orthodoxy a little bit more. I’m still confused on what they think about the after life though. So hell is not a place at all? Thank you in advance when you guys have the time to answer.
Christ is Risen!
Yeah, don't think of hell as place you go. The question is how do we continue to open our hearts to God's love, and how do we come to love Him more?
Steven Christoforou
Forgive me for being slow to understand but why did Christ talk about hell so much? I know that it isn’t literal fire because those are metaphors he uses to describe something worse. Idk where I’m going with this sorry I honestly feel really confused! Lol
@@rw-oh8ix It's ok to be confused!
I don't think any of us can guess why Christ said what He did (and how He did it). Maybe it was the kind of image people needed to motivate them? Just like kids sometimes need to be reminded of a punishment to keep them in line, maybe we need to be kept on the right path in a similar way. We can be very spiritually immature, even when we're adults.
Hmm...honest question:
What about the verse in 2 Cor 12:2 where St. Paul says, "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know-God knows."
And also how the devil and his angels will get thrown into the lake of fire.
Are those not indicative of an actual place or dimension?
(I'm new to Orthodoxy.)
Orthodox Christians do believe that when we depart our bodies we go to Paradise to wait in joy, consciously, the resurretion. The liturgies and prayers for the dead do ask God to take their souls to that "place" where sorrow and weeping have fled away and to raise their bodies also. St. Paul also saw the third heaven which is vertai ly another "storey".
What precisely happens after body and soul are separated is a mystery. There is a pious hope that we wait for the resurrection in joy, but I don't think this is a dogmatic statement. For all we know, we may close our eyes and open them again at the General Resurrection. In a sense, the details of what happens in between are irrelevant: the ultimate goal is the Kingdom, and it's ok to not be sure about what happens before we experience it in its fullness.
Steven Christoforou
This is disagreebale. This is the heresy of Soul Sleep or Psychopanachia which was officially condemned.
Steven Christoforou
Souls Sleep is also what the Jehovah's Witnessses and other heretics believe. It is not the teaching of the Bible or the Orthodox Church.
We ask for the prayers of the saints currently in Paradise and awaiting the resurrection.
I really don't know why we're so worried about what happens where and when.
John tells us about a first resurrection in Revelation. Will we all experience that? Who cares! We'll rise again at the General Judgment, and while we have breath we'll pray for those who came before us. Let's be ready when that last breath comes and goes.
This whole thread seems incredibly fruitless to me. Maybe I'm missing some concern or fear?
The Theotokod St. Mary, St. Paul, the Apostles, the myriads of saints, and the Faithful Orthodox who have departed this world are conscious, joyful and enjoying paradise, a foretaste of heaven and continue to pray and intercede for us. If this were not the case then our Divine Liturgies, Doxologies, and prayers make no sense.
love ur vids
Thank you!
I'd like a video on toll houses, please.
Thanks for the suggestion!
What about them in particular?
@@stevenchristoforou1667 There seems to be a spectrum of opinions on toll houses from literal to figurative, from "they are important to keep in mind" to "don't think about them." What are we to make of it all?
@@anharmyenone True.
To be honest, I wouldn't worry about toll houses, or what the "process" looks like after we die. It seems to lead to a lot of unnecessary worry.
Focus more on loving the Lord and on loving the people around you. Pray, fast, give alms. Connect with a spiritual father who can help you on your journey.
God bless you!
God would never delegate judgement to demons that’s all you need to know they aren’t read, they aren’t dogma and priests have denounced them
From what i know/believe Paradise is another phrase for Heaven. However, people seem to believe it is a place you go to while waiting for heaven to be opened. Would love for this to 'bee' addressed.
I really like these videos.. But the music??
Thanks!
What about the music?
Steven Christoforou Hi! I feel like the music can be a little distracting. In your videos you are discussing some profound ideas that are really thought provoking and interesting. However the music is a little loud and light hearted and conflicts in a sense with the content. Im not sure what kind of music to replace it with, but maybe if it were quieter it wouldnt be so distracting.. Anyway, like I said Im enjoying your content.
Sorry it's such a distraction for you!
God bless you, thanks for watching despite the difficulty.
Thank you for this! In the previous video, you said this week you would explain how God saved us from death. Can you explain how the Incarnation, life, death, and resurrection of Christ accomplished this?
We're hoping to get to it in this week's episode!
Love this video and all the others so much! Thank you and may God continue to bless your work + On a side note, with Pascha coming up, I'm getting a lot of questions about why our Easters are different. I know you're on a role right now with connecting themes, but maybe a thought of another video in the future :)
Anastasia Nicoloudakis This is a great thought! We'll see what we can do!
Steven Christoforou Thanks Steve :) Christ is Risen!
What happens immediately after death then?
The most responsible answer here is: it's hard to say. There is lots of speculation, but no definitive answer. And that's ok: our ultimate goal is the Kingdom. It's not an obstacle to our salvation if we don't know what happens between our death and the Second Coming.
Now I'm going to push back on the question a bit. If nothing else, keep in mind that God is bigger than time. We move through time in a linear way, from past to future. God isn't constrained in that way. So who knows what "immediately" means, in this context.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, but what do you think of universalism?
Again, it depends on what you mean. All will be saved in the sense that nothing (and no one) that God has created will sink back into the nothingness from which it was made.
Will everybody be saved in the sense of enjoying their contact with God? That's up to us. We can hope for this, and pray for this, but can't state it as a fact.
Does that makes sense?
Hey Y2AM does Orthodox Christians accept evolution?
+Ellis Farrow In what sense? I think most Orthodox Christians would say that living things evolve over time, that life on Earth has changed significantly over millions of years. But that may be an overly-general answer that doesn't answer your question.
Heaven and Hell, also a Dio song
Is it true that you can end up in hell if you love you parents more then god oh if you can't chose between the two. Please answer it would be really help if you can give me dome perspective.
It's not really a choice between the two. Our love for anyone is ultimately rooted in our love for God, who welcomes us all into His Kingdom and grants us eternal life.
Without God, everything ends. Including our relationships with our loved ones, because we all die. But in Christ we have life everlasting, and relationships that won't end because our lives won't be cut short.
So don't feel like you have to choose. Just remember that our love of God allows our love for our parents (and others) to be true and eternal.
God bless you!
@@stevenchristoforou1667 its just one of the chapter in the Bible Jesus say you must love me more then anyone including parents to be worthy.
@@A.D.540 Yes, but we have to understand what these verses mean. It doesn't help us to take isolated verses without being able to understand them.
Love your parents. Pray for them.
And know that God is merciful. He loves both you and your parents.
May His love for all of you welcome you into His Kingdom.
@@stevenchristoforou1667 this is the quote from Mathew: Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
@@stevenchristoforou1667 so i shouldn't take it the way it is written but instead look at it from different perspective.
Hi I know this is an old video but I hope anyone can answer me this question. So once we die then we no longer have the choice to choose Gods love instead of rejecting him? Is it because we are in his full presence which is overwhelming for us?
Great question! We need to be clear on what freedom is.
Sin is not an expression of our freedom. In fact, it's a form of slavery to our passions and desires.
In the Kingdom, we will be free to be who we truly are. It's not that we "no longer have the choice" but rather are truly free to love Him without the things that get in the way (anger, pride, etc).
Does that make sense?
@@stevenchristoforou1667 Yes it does and that sounds great but what I mean to say for example if someone that has rejected Christ their whole life dies, do they have to option to accept God now that they are in his presence?
@@yolandatejedor214 The important part of this is "rejected Christ."
God is merciful. And a person may have rejected, not Christ, but the idea of "Christ" he received from other people.
And we can pray for those who have passed, for their repentance.
@@stevenchristoforou1667 Thanks for responding :)
So from my basic understanding of orthodox Christianity, heaven is our lord and savior Jesus Christ's kingdom. And that is why when we lose loved ones we ask that they be remembered eternally in his almighty kingdom. And that's when we go to heaven. Right?
I also wonder why do we pray for the dead in the church?
Miguel Padilla This is a great question! We'll work on an episode covering this.
"I also wonder why do we pray for the dead in the church?"
It is idolatrous to do so, so stop doing it.
It's idolatrous to pray for another's salvation?
***** FYI: you can't pray someone into Heaven! It is God, and God alone that grants us belief.
It is Written:
For to you it has been *::>granted
+bigzack1011 then you are saying that God is dead! You're an atheist!
If you do not believe in the reality of the Saints, nor do you believe in the possibility of man being restored to its original state, being like god since being made in the image of God thus the Saints, then my friend you are very close to atheism.
Those that partake of the divine nature are alive in Christ cause he's life! (2peter 1:4)
Thank you. So Heaven and Hell are not “places” but “states” ?
Yeah, that's a fair summary.
The question is not "where do we go?" but rather "how do we respond to God?"
How then am I supposed to understand the traditional teaching on the descent of Christ to hell? thank you
This becomes a language issue.
Christ didn't descend into "hell" (the state of punishment which awaits the demons after the Judgment). He descended into "hades."
And again, be careful about being too literal with a word like "descended."
I understand that now
But it leads me to another question. What is Hades? Is it a place?
Sorry for another question I’m just trying to understand.
It's good to ask questions!
I'm not sure I can offer you a super precise answer. We can certainly imagine it as a place, though I couldn't tell you where that place is.
All we know is that people were subject to death: our souls and bodies were separated with no hope of resurrection. And that Christ defeated death by His own death, so now we can rise with Him.
If this is true, then where did Jesus go when he descended into Hell after the crucifixion? Where did His physical body go when He ascended into Heaven?
We miss the point when we frame the question in terms of "where did He go."
For example, Jesus physically ascended in heaven, yes. And yet He's not gone. He hasn't left us.
Blessed Steven, Peace and grace to you in Christ.
Do you believe that your consciousness ceases to exist upon death? Do you believe that your inner man/ your soul/ your spirit/ does not go consciously into the presence of Christ to be present with him when it leaves your body, that it ceases to exists or is unconscious until the Resurrection of the body?
If so, is this the universal teaching of the Orthodox Church?
I don't think God lets anyone cease to exist. He desires the salvation and life of all.
As for what exactly happens between the moment of our death and the Second Coming, we can't say for sure. And that lack of precise knowledge is ok: we await the resurrection of our bodies and life in the age to come.
OK I just had to say I love the reference to Matthew Courville
Great video ...but what happens to ungodly people after they die ...do they suffer ? And what happens to the ungodly people after judgement .. Are they thrown in a literal lake of fire. Im confused because it sounds like you're saying heaven and hell is a state of mind .
Fire turns wood to ash. But it makes gold glow.
The question for all of us is: are we open to God, or do we reject Him?
That can be complicated. An "ungodly" person who rejected Christianity in this life may have had bad experiences (and is rejecting those experiences rather than God).
We can pray for everyone. And do our best to be humble, loving, and prepared.
@@stevenchristoforou1667 thank you i think i get it. It's like we're blocking our blessings by rejecting God .
@@mems_a Yeah, that's a good way of describing it.
Or, even more than that, we turn blesses into curses. We don't just block them away, they actually become something that "hurts" us.
So if you’re in a desert you’ll burn, so I’m supposed to decide to happy ? The analogy doesn’t work!
But is hell eternal ? Will people suffer sersly for ever and ever ?
As far as we know. But this suffering isn't imposed upon us: it's our rejection of God.
@@stevenchristoforou1667 So once you are in hell, you cannot repent? You have to be there forever trillion of years and suffering and God is fine with that... seems like a loving God. We didnt even ask to be created, and apparently we are sick and commanded to be well, well in this case I wish I would have never been born then.
@@pabloh5884 It's not quite so simple.
But we pray for the dead. And for each other.
God isn't "fine with it." Again, this suffering is our rejection of God. Imagine you're drowning, and someone tries to give you oxygen. And you keep pushing them away.
That's what hell is. It's not a punishment someone gives us. It's a punishment we impose on ourselves.
@@stevenchristoforou1667 Could you then please elaborate on how we "reject" God ?
@@pabloh5884 Sin. When we chose hate over love; selfishness over generosity; grudges over forgiveness.
To use an extreme example (in order to clarify): the saints embrace God, while the demons reject Him.
kalo pascha steve!
Yanni Tsetsekos Christ is risen!
Hi Steve, can you please help me understand what St. John the Chrysostome is referring to, in the mnimosino service, when we hear prayers such as: "Των Αγίων ο χορός εύρε πηγήν της ζωής και θύραν Παραδείσου,εύρω καγώ την οδόν δια της μετανοίας", "Ανάπαυσον, ο θεός τη δούλη σου, και κατάταξον αυτήν εν Παραδείσω, όπου χοροί των Αγίων Κύριε, και οι Δίκαιοι εκλάμψουσιν ως φωστήρες", "Συ ει ο Θεός ημών, ο καταβάς εις Άδην,και τας οδύνας λύσας των πεπεδημένων...", "..Κύριος ο Θεός τάξη την ψυχήν αυτής ένθα οι Δίκαιοι αναπαύονται, τα ελέη του Θεού, την βασιλείαν των ουρανών", " Κύριε, ανάπαυσον την ψυχήν της κεκοιμημένης δούλης σου -ς, εν τόπω φωτεινώ, εν τόπω χλοερώ, εν τόπω αναψύξεως, ένθα απέδρα οδύνη, λύπη και στεναγμός."
We can read about "Gate of Paradise" where the The Saints have found the source of life, meaning that such a place currently exists. We read that the Saints and the righteous shine bright. We read that our God "descended" into Hades, meaning there is lower level. We read about Kingdom of Heavens being a resting place for the righteous. We also pray for the soul of the "sleeping loved one" to rest in a bright place, a refreshing place and a place without sorrow or sigh, definitely not earthly conditions.
How does John the Chrysostome correlates to the "Orthodox belief of one story Universe"?
Thank you!
Great question!
First, remember that language is limited. It can reveal but, if we're not careful, it can also confuse.
For example, did Christ really "descend" into a lower place? Or is that a term that refers, not to geography, but rather the depth and despair of Hades?
Also, remember that time is a weird and non-linear thing in the Church. Every feast of the Church celebrates the great event as happening "today;" Christ being born, crucified, resurrected, etc. In the same way, we can use present-tense language to describe something that may not be, in a linear sense, from the "future."
Remember that Christ resurrected both body and soul. Whatever happens to our souls after they are separated from their bodies, that's just a temporary state. And we can't be too sure about what exactly happens then (though various saints and others have experiences and ideas). What matters is that we will rise, both body and soul, on the Day or Judgment when Christ comes again.
We will have our bodies, but they won't be "earthly" as we currently think of that. "Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells." (2 Peter 3:13)
Hi Steve and thank you for the reply.
I completely understand and agree with you that there is no specific geographical space to designate hell or Hades for that matter. Also I completely agree with the notion that Hades is a place of despair, however we are told every Sunday that there is a direction. Greek Orthodoxy describes in detail what happens with our mortal bodies and with our immortal souls.
We know when a person dies the body goes to a deep sleep, thus we bury it in a ce-me-te-ry (κοι-μη-τή-ριον). The soul however is found in a crossroad. We repeatedly pray after the death "νεκρώσιμος Ακολουθία", during "τριήμερα", "εννιάμερα", "σαρανταήμερο", etc, for the soul to ascend and God to forgive and accept it in His Heavenly Kingdom. If souls are accepted in Heaven, we know that they are conscious and active, the amount of activity depends on the sanctity of the soul.
Our Church during the year devotes many hymns and prayers to the very active souls of Saints. We pray (Apolytikion) for Saints to advocate for us before God, "...Άγιε, Μεγαλομάρτυς Δημήτριε, Χριστόν τον Θεόν ικέτευε, δωρήσασθαι ημίν το μέγα έλεος".
Many times we ask specific Saints themselves to help us, "Άγιοι Ανάργυροι και θαυματουργοί, επισκέψασθε τας ασθενείας ημών, δωρεάν ελάβετε, δωρεάν δότε ημίν".
The existence of above Kingdom is also supported by the Priest inciting the clergy to have their hearts directed above ('Ανω σχώμεν τας καρδίας).
All the above prove the existence of an active Kingdom established above us, in the heavens, thus cannot be a geographic destination but it is obviously a direction.
Having that in ming, it is clear why Saint John the Chrysostom, a well educated man and Ecumenical Patriarch of his time, chose the word "descend" in his liturgy. Greek language is limitless. He could have picked from a variety of words, indicating that the soul remains in a state of void or despair in the same level with the living. Words such as "αἰώνιο κενό" or "αἰωνίa στάσις", could have been chosen to indicate the stagnated state of the soul. However, he did not pick such words or similar, instead he chose to designate the location of Hades with a direction.
All my notes above are derived from Church Liturgies, they are not in any case my doctrine or ideology. I address you not as a theologian, because I am not, rather as a simple parishioner who was puzzled by watching your video. Although I understand you are trying to clear up common ideas about heaven and hell, simultaneously you manifest an idea that is in contrast to what Orthodoxy preaches on any given Sunday and on many other occasions.
Respectfully.
"However we are told every Sunday that there is a direction."
Yes, but we have to understand what these words mean (and what they don't). Hell isn't under our feet in a literal sense, any more than heaven is above our heads.
If it was, could we dig in the ground until we found it?
I appreciate your comments, and I want to ask a question to help clarify.
Do you know the Hymn of Kassiani? We hear it for Matins of Holy Wednesday. In the hymn, St Kassiani places herself in the position of the sinful woman who cleaned the Lord's feet with her hair. She says they are the very same feet that Adam and Eve heard in the Garden.
How could they hear the feet of Jesus if He had not been born yet?
Time, I hope you can see, does not necessarily work as we expect it to. In Christ, the same can go for the saints. The saints act among us because God's eternal Kingdom has broken through into our moment in time. In other words, it may be that more than just the souls of the saints are active, even if we have not yet made it to the Second Coming.
Because time does not necessarily act the way we expect.
So don't worry too much about words like "above" and "below," or "before" and "after."
Pray for all. Trust in the Lord.
Hi Steve,
"...ὧν ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ Εὔα τὸ δειλινόν, κρότον τοῖς ὠσὶν ἠχηθεῖσα, τῷ φόβῳ ἐκρύβη."
According to our Greek Orthodox tradition and the fourth book of Georgios Hamartolos the chronicler, this line of the troparion of Kassiani, was written by Emperor Theophilus. That's a discussion for an other time though....
Your question I cannot answer in essence, because I was never in Paradise to know nor I ever met St. Kassiani. However, what I know is that Jesus never tried to hide his physical existence even before his birth by Mary, in contrast he was very profound about it. We can read that in John 8.58: " εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς· Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί." .
Jesus is very precise here, leaving no room for interpretations.
I can see this passage being an inspiration for St. Kassiani,at the time she composed her beautiful troparion.
In regards to our previous topic, again, all my ideas come from Sunday Eucharist and other church liturgies, thus if "we could dig in the ground until we find it" is a question you have to ask St. John the Chrysostome. He is the one who wrote, " ....ο καταβάς εις Άδην", "Άνω σχώμεν" and "την βασιλείαν των ουρανών". I do not expect time to be other than what my Church and the fathers preach to be. Thus once again, your video controverts him, so I simply ask you, is he right or is he wrong. Should we take him literally and join the priest in the prayers or should we ignore the priest?
If these are words which we shouldn't "worry too much about", then why did you make the effort to create this video?
Why didn't you, just rely on pray for people to find the truth?
I appreciate you taking the time and I applaud your bravery for touching on this subject.
Respectfully.
Best thumbnail hahaha
I have a question, if hell doesn't exist then what is Hades? If Hades is a place are there people there now or once Jesus descended into Hades it's no longer being used?
abel gaitan Great question! We'll probably get to this in the next episode. Stay tuned!
@@y2am your crazy to think hell and heaven doesn't exist when it's talk in the bible
@@dereklee2590 it's not that they don't exist! We need to clarify what they are.
People misunderstand the Bible all the time.
The Father of Orthodoxy, St. Athanasius calls ouur souls immortal, not because of themslves but because wills it so. We shouldn't shy away from doing the same.
but what about when Christ mentions hell to the Pharisee? or when he gives the parable and says "depart from me into the eternal fire reserved for the devil and his angels"?
sorry just a little confused on this. it's great but it's a different from what I'm used to completely.
The Master (JESUS CHRIST) Says: Matthew 25:46 (These (The unrighteous)) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
False teachers, Teach falsely.
''the kingdom of heaven is inside us'' ;)
Razamaniac There is nothing in the N.T. that says ''the kingdom of heaven is inside us''
bigzack1011 Luke 17:20-21
read better bro
Razamaniac Luke 17:20-21
20 Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed; 21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
Doesn't say this ''the kingdom of heaven is inside us''
You MUST be Born-Again. John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
And that is from above. John 1:13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
So no hell? I'm confused..I'm truly trying to follow, but I'm not sure hell not existing is historical Christianity
Hell isn't the place we see described in pop culture: as if it's some other place away from God.
Hell is a way we can experience God. If we don't love God, then His loving embrace will be something we hate.
@@stevenchristoforou1667 Woah! Mind blown...different to the way I've thought about it (Catholic here) but it actually makes a lot of sense. It's the traditional imagery that's presenting an issue for me...visions saints etc. have had that seem to point to the souls in hell 'going' somewhere separate to those in paradise...I guess I find it difficult to imagine the souls in paradise being amoung souls who are in torment (due to rejection of God)? The souls in paradise being cool with seeing the souls in torment around them? Not that my ability to imagine something says anything about it's accurcay lol
This is deeply troubling to me, that Orthodox Christians don’t actually believe in Hell or the lake of fire
Can you explain what's troubling?
@@stevenchristoforou1667 just the idea that there isn’t an actual lake of fire. I was raised Catholic, so that’s what I was raised to believe. Also it’s so cool that you responded to my comment! Would you open to chatting about Orthodoxy? I’ve been watching your videos since I was 13 (am 19 now) was
God didn't make this earth to be destroyed, you're right. In the book of Genesis, He made all things and called it 'good'. However, we also know sin came into the world through Adam and Eve and thus the fall happened - in this world we see sickness, death etc because it is a fallen world. But how come the Eastern Orthodoxy doctrine doesn't believe in the old earth passing away? Verses like these are clear this fallen earth won't just be restored but our Triune God will actually destoy and recreate it:
Revelation 21:1 (NKJV) - “Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea." (Key words - NEW heaven and NEW Earth, first earth had PASSED AWAY)
I'm aware the book of Revelation is highly symbolic however looking at other books in the word of God, we see of the same 'new earth' being spoken of and not in the context that this old one will be restored (rather we will reside on an entirely new earth with our God).
Here are some other verses regarding the same matter from other books (Isaiah 65:17-19, 2 Peter 3:13, Isaiah 66:22)
However, this is my main concern. The belief that hell and heaven aren't literal geographical places (whether spiritual or material) distorts a lot of what Scripture says. Not only is that a problem, but if I'm not understanding wrongly the Orthodoxy belief that 'hell and heaven are a response to His unconditional love' also doesn't make too much sense biblically. I come from a Hindu background before Christ so hearing this, while I COULD BE COMPLETELY WRONG (so if so, please educate me with biblical proof), this seems extremely similar to their viewpoint.
Now while I DO know God is referred to as a consuming fire in Scripture (Hebrews 12:29, Deuteronomy 4:24, 9:3, Isaiah 33:14), Hell is said to be a literal place you can be CAST into (Revelation 19:20) and Jesus Himself said things like "It is better for you to enter life lame than having two feet, to be CAST into hell, into fire that will never be quenched" and that in this hell there are "WORMS who do not die" (Mark 9:44-48). All of this is literal, there is nothing symbolic about weeping and gnashing of teeth where worms feast on the flesh of the burning inhabitants of hell eternally. Knowing all people will be resurrected for the Judgement, we also know ALL of us will have glorified bodies. However, those in Christ will have glorified bodies where sickness, death, sin and all these things shall never exist in us again and unbelievers will be eternally PHYSICALLY tormented with these now eternal bodies. Now hell being a place separate from where believers reside does NOT contradict God's omnipresence. Revelation 14:10-11 tells us the unbelievers will be tormented in the PRESENCE of the Lamb and the smoke of their torment ascends forever. Isaiah 59:2 shows us our iniquities HIDE God's face and He does not hear us. Does that mean God loses His all-knowing attribute? Of course not. Sin is just so evil in the eyes of the Most High that He refuses to SHINE HIS FACE on sinners who do not repent (this is why we can have hindered prayers when we for example haven't forgiven someone). The lake of fire is a place designed for satan and his angels but for the unfortunate humans who will go there, they go by their own free will. He respects their choice of not wanting to be in His presence by rejecting our Lord and Saviour so out of His love He sends them to a place where He most certainly exists but NEVER SHINES HIS FACE there. It is important to note that Abraham tells the rich man (concerning heaven and hell) 'there is a great gulf, so that those want to pass from here to you CANNOT, nor can those form there pass to us' (Luke 16:25-27 NKJV). While God is love, He most certainly is Holy and Just. The angels in the Heaven don't worship Him saying 'love, love, love' even though that is Who He is by His very nature, they worship Him saying "Holy, Holy, Holy" (Revelation 4:8, Isaiah 6:3). This means while He has unconditional love for us all, He must punish iniquity and thus unrepentant sinners must be cast out to outer darkness. God displays His love by respecting the decision we make with the free will He gave us like you said but I believe Scripture shows us how He does it whilst maintaining His other natures as 'Holy and Just'. If I'm not misunderstanding, the Orthodox doctrine believes we will all be in His presence together but one suffers the consequence of not accepting His love while the other rejoices in His infinite love. This directly contradicts the Luke verse from above where it tells us we do NOT exist together in the same location, where we are separated by a 'great gulf'. I'm aware this is BEFORE the Judgement however the point still stands that while we will live with our Loving God and Saviour, unrepentant sinners will cry out for help from the unquenchable fire yet God will not turn His face their way.
Now with my concerns mentioned and questions asked, I'd also like to ask another question. It seems some Eastern Orthodox Christians DO believe in a literal hell and heaven. Are there diverse denominations within the Orthodox church? At the end of the day, as long as you believe the Word of God took on flesh, shed His blood on the cross and died on the cross for our sins and on the 3rd day He (the Son of God) rose from the dead, you're all my brothers and sisters in Christ. However, while I am interested in the Orthodoxy beliefs some doctrines are holding me back. It is important to note that even from an early point of my salvation by the grace of our Lord Jesus (I have been born again for 9 months now), I was led to the Eastern Orthodoxy Trinity doctrine which was PERFECT and I couldn't agree with it more. Currently, I identify as non-denominational but I would appreciate if any of you could answer my questions with biblical proof. I also avoided any mention of church fathers and their writing because I'm unfortunately uneducated on that matter, feel free to help me out! God bless you all in abundance, I hope my line of questioning didn't come across as too offensive!
You're so handsome monk 😍... I pray God bless you 😄
So even as states of being for the soul - do you imply that all the references to a spiritual place made by Jesus - including the eternal lake of fire / darkness or the paradise in which He existed with the soul of the thief after death - are just fiction? Also the reality described by saints - it's all just mad-man inventions? There's no existence for the soul after death?
There is existence for the soul after death. Yet it's important to remember that the soul, just like any other created thing, only exists in its connection to God. It is not by its nature immortal.
Death is a mystery. We haven't experienced it, so it's hard to speak of it in too much detail. We know that we look forward to the resurrection of the dead. We know that God loves us unconditionally, and that we are capable of choosing to reject that love.
"Lake of fire," "paradise," etc. are not man-made inventions. Yet these are, by themselves, just words. And we need to be careful about understanding them properly; they are words that attempt to communicate realities we have not experienced.
We do not have a soul.
Moses said that a human body mixed with the spirit (God's breath) makes a soul. So we ARE souls.
And the spirit is the breath in our lungs. We sleep in the grave until Jesus returns.
Beyt Yet Jesus said that it is okay to eat the foods that were illegal in the Old Testament because he said it simply passes through your body and doesn't taint your soul because your soul isn't your body. Another one of those unfortunate Scripture contradictions, but I put more stock in the NT :)
Zach Baird
Jesus never said that. The context shows that he was talking about BREAD, NOT MEAT. If Jesus did say that it was okay to eat unclean meats, his disciples would have left him immediately. Moses said if one comes saying not to keep any of these laws, then he is a false messiah.
Moses is from the OT and not per say Christianity. I find it interesting that so many Christians put too much stock in the OT, disregarding how Jesus overturned most laws from, for example, Leviticus. This includes the eating of various meats: it is okay to do so because it doesn't taint your soul. Moses, who was Jewish, and the Jews, and Muslims as well, all believe the body has to be pure, because the soul is the body or resides within the body in a fundamental way. Hence, when you eat pork, you taint yourself. Jesus said this isn't necessary because the soul moves on afterwards, and the pureness of the soul isn't determined by what you eat but rather by the actions you take. He said something to the effect "What goes into his mouth does not matter for it goes through his body and leaves, but what comes out of his mouth does matter because that comes from his heart." (not exact quote).
It sounds like you're following some of the errors of Alexander Kalomiros. And the view that heaven and hell are not places, is not biblical. Sheol/Hades is pictured in the Bible as the netherworld below the earth, where souls go when they die and leave the body.
It is very depressing to think of the possibility that when we close our eyes we are unconscious in death and practically don't exist or feel the love of God until the resurrection. In a sense wwe are Atheists without God between death and the resurrection. Thankfully the Orthodox Church and faith is opposed to such a view. We ask the saints to intercede and pray for us because they are conscious and joyful in Paradise. This is not specilation. This IS Orthodoxy. The intermefiate state between physical death and resurrection is part and parcel of our Orthodox Faith in the resurrection. No martry? no Christian in antiquity or the present goes to their deaths believing they will cease to exist and be unconscious forcthousabds of years until the resirrection. Of this is the case then death is still to be feared... and contrary to Liturgical Texts death is. ot a departure for Christians but a real cessation of life. Those few Eastern Orthodox who espouse such views are an very small minirity who have gone astray in trying to fight platonism that they have completely skewed the true teaching of the church tegarding the power of the Resirrection... which extends to the opening of paradise and the immefiate joyful life of the Triumphant Church in Christ awaiting the resurrection.
St. Athanasius, the Father of Orthodoxy states that the soul, being immortal by God's grace, "converses with the saints and angels who are beyond earthly and bodily existence, and approaches them in the confidence of the purity of its intelligence ; shall it not all the more, when separated from the body at the time appointed by God Who joined them... much more shall its life continue after the death of the body, and live without ceasing by reason of God Who made it thus by His own Word, our Lord Jesus Christ. For this is the reason why the soul thinks of and bears in mind immortal and eternal things, namely, because it is itself immortal. And just as, the body being mortal, its senses also have mortal things as their objects, so, since the soul contemplates and beholds immortal things, it follows that it is immortal and lives for ever. For ideas and thoughts about immortality never desert the soul, but abide in it, and are as it were the fuel in it which ensures its immortality. This then is why the soul has the capacity for beholding God, and is its own way thereto, receiving not from without but from herself the knowledge and apprehension of the Word of God."
St. Athanasius, Against the Heathen, 32 - 33.
"Prayer:
O God, You have given us an immortal soul which distinguishes us from irrational creatures. Help us all to safeguard it from evil influences"
This actually sounds a lot like Oneness philosophy... there is no Heaven & Hell... it's all in your mind. If you're tortured in your mind, you go to your own personal hell. If you are loving and happy, and love God, you go to your own personal Heaven. I feel you should have mentioned the devil here, because without the devil, it seems like everything is ONE, neither good nor bad, just perception, which is very New Age spirituality: So all is one, and there is no evil and God loves Hitler and Mother Teresa the same. Can you please elaborate if I'm on the right track or missing something?
Good question. This isn't oneness philosophy.
God is Good. God is the source of Life. To pull away from Him is to sink into evil (and death).
The devil is real. He has chosen to try to flee God. But he can't: God is everywhere present and filling all things.
God does love everyone. But we don't all love God.
Steven Christoforou Thank you fir sharing this knowledge. And thank you for being a friend in this journey with Christ. You have helped me more than I know. God bless the Orthodox Church ☦️
@@mujerdivina1590 God bless and guide you!
Steven Christoforou Are you planning to become a priest? I wish you were. The church and the world needs more people like you.
Since coming into Christianity, I’ve never met so many unloving, unempathetic, spiritually unknowing and judgemental people. I’m not pretending I’m a Saint either, but you are one of the only kind, loving and very spiritually knowledgeable Christians I’ve ever met. I’ve been searching in Protestantism and Catholicism and it seems the Orthodox are the most loving. At least the few I’ve talked to. The only Catholic I know that is kind is my significant other.
But we need people like you as a Father. Please consider it. There are so many people hurt by religion out there that you can help heal. Me included.
@@mujerdivina1590 It's up to God! Not me.
But I appreciate your kindness. And I'm very sorry for the difficult experiences you've had.
So, where do you go when you die? And where did Jesus Ascend? I thought Gnosticism died. To be a good Christian you serve Jesus without reward of Heaven, but just to serve Him even if that means in Hell. Jesus owns the keys to Heaven and Hades.
I think a better way to put it is: the point of our life is to be united with God. That is what He created us for. He wants to be with us, and when we obey His commandments to serve others, we draw closer to Him.
Based on our Jewish beliefs..
Hell is a place where God isn't. It's eternal not of this world. It's a place of judgement for the ungodly. Anything that says otherwise is unscriptural.
With respect, I'd suggest it's deeply unscriptural to suggest there's a place where God is not:
Where can I go from Your Spirit?
Or where can I flee from Your presence?
8 If I ascend into heaven, You are there;
If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
And dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,
10 Even there Your hand shall lead me,
And Your right hand shall hold me. (Psalm 139:7-10)
Steven, That verse is just one verse from the bible and it's referring to here on earth. But has nothing to do with what Jesus spoke about in Revelation 20:5 "And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." Is God with then also in the fire too? If so why if they've been cast away from him?
" Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? ' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness! ' Matthew 7:21-23
"That verse is just one verse from the bible and it's referring to here on earth."
This is a strained interpretation. The Psalm is magnifying God, who knows our thoughts and is present in all places. To say that it refers merely to earth misses the point.
What you're doing now is interpreting the Scripture. Based on what, though?
"But has nothing to do with what Jesus spoke about in Revelation 20:5...Is God with then also in the fire too? "
Of course God is in the fire! The question is: how do we respond to the fire?
You're denying a rather core confession, that God is omnipresent, by arguing that there are places He is not. You're unintentionally limiting God, denying His infinitude, making Him circumscribed and defined rather than infinite.
Hell was a place made for the Devil and the demons so I do not believe it is a place God chooses to hang out when it's intended to keep them away from him. The whole point of Hell is punishment and a cutting off from those sentenced there from his presence thats why Jesus came as Saviour to save the lost both in this life and the one to come. Jesus said that on that day "many will say to me Lord Lord........ depart from me...."! I think its clear to say that when God says "depart from me" - you are removed from God completely and forever, there's no going back. So to make a video and say its all about this life and nothing of the one to come then I would say you are in error of the scriptures.
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16
We are talking about the perishing side of rejecting Christ and many are going to perish according to Jesus words.....
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it." Matt 7:13
"I do not believe it is a place God chooses to hang out when it's intended to keep them away from him."
I'm not sure how you can apply "place" to God, who is bodiless and infinite. I'm also not sure how anything can exist if it was truly and fully cut off from God, since He is the source of all existence. Your comment raises a lot of theological problems that both (1) limits God and (2) raises certain parts of creation to self-sufficiency / self-existence.
"The whole point of Hell is punishment and a cutting off from those sentenced there from his presence thats why Jesus came as Saviour to save the lost both in this life and the one to come."
This is far from clear, which is why we're having the conversation.
On its face, treating hell as a place separated from God seems illogical. If hell is full of people who long to be close to God, then what are they doing in hell? If it's full of people who hate God and want to escape Him, then how is it a punishment?
This video seems to be teaching psychopanachia (soul death or soul sleep). This is not Orthodoxy.
The soul is conscious after physical death.
St John Cassian:
The souls of the dead not only do not lose consciousness, they do not even lose their dispositions - that is, hope and fear, joy and grief, and something of that which they expect for themselves at the Universal Judgement they begin already to foretaste… They become yet more alive and more zealously cling to the glorification of God.
And truly, if we were to reason on the basis of the testimony of the Sacred Scripture concerning the nature of the soul, in the measure of our understanding, would it not be, I will not say extreme stupidity, but at least folly, to suspect even in the least that the most precious part of man (that is, the soul), in which, according to the blessed Apostle, the image and likeness of God is contained, after putting off this fleshly coarseness in which it finds itself in this present life, should become unconscious - that part which, containing in itself the power of reason, makes sensitive by its presence even the dumb and unconscious matter of the flesh?” (First Conference of Abba Moses)
St John Chrysostom:
Do not say to me, ‘He who has died does not hear, does not speak, does not see, does not feel, since neither does a man who sleeps.’ If it is necessary to say something wondrous, the soul of a sleeping man somehow sleeps, but not so with him who has died, for [his soul] has awakened.
St John Maximovich:
Many appearances of the dead have given us to know in part what happens with the soul when it leaves the body. When it no longer sees with its bodily eyes, its spiritual vision is opened. This frequently occurs even before actual death; while seeing and even conversing with those around them, the dying see that which others do not. Leaving the body, the soul finds itself among other spirits, good and evil. Usually it strives towards those which are more akin to it, but if while still in the body it was under the influence of certain spirits, it remains dependent upon them when it leaves the body, no matter how unpleasant they might prove to be at the encounter.
St Adomnan writes of St Columba:
One day he suddenly looked up towards heaven and said: ‘Happy woman, happy and virtuous, whose soul the angels of God now take to paradise!’ One of the brothers was a devout man called Genereus, the Englishman, who was the baker. He was at work in the bakery where he heard St. Columba say this. A year later, on the same day, the saint again spoke to Genereus the Englishman, saying: ‘I see a marvelous thing. The woman of whom I spoke in your presence a year ago today - look! - she is not meeting in the air the soul of a devout layman, her husband, and is fighting for him together with the holy angels against the power of the enemy. With their help and because the man himself was always righteous, his soul is rescued from the devils’ assaults and
is brought to the place of eternal refreshment.
...we also have the Homily on the Departure of the Soul by St Theophilus, which is in agreement with St Athanasius, St Cyril. We have the prayers of St Basil for those souls even in Hell. We do indeed have a constant and almost universal witness to the belief that the souls exist without flesh in this intermediate state. The fact that a few may be found who say otherwise does not diminish the authority of the teaching of the Church.
It is not the teaching of the Church either that souls do not exist or that they sleep or are unconscious.
The video does no such thing.
Before simply accusing someone of heresy (especially when you're hedging right from the start and saying it "seems to be" saying something it's not), perhaps try a different approach.
For example:
"Hi! Thanks for the video, though I have a question. It seemed like maybe you were suggesting X. Is that true? Could you clarify? Forgive me if I misunderstood."