Christ Was Born in a Cave
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- Опубліковано 5 лют 2025
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Obviously this isn’t the point of what Jonathan is saying, but historically it makes more sense that Christ would be born in a cave because shepherds in ancient Israel would often keep their animals under clefts of rocks with a fence on the outside. They certainly didn’t have wooden stables, almost all buildings were (and often still are) made with stone due to the landscape. This is why it’s more accurate to call Jesus a stonemason than a carpenter, because a “house builder” would work with stone and not wood.
The animals in a cave with a fence outside also gives context to Jesus saying “I am the door.” Shepherds would sleep in front of the gate to these caves/clefts to protect the flock and prevent them from breaking out through the gate. That is why Jesus being the Good Shepherd and the Door are related.
So, the carpenter thing is interesting. The carpenters built the war chariots of Egypt, but they also built the scaffolding used to build the pyramids and other monolithic structures in Egypt. Supposedly, the cousin of the pharoah Akhenaten was the chief engineer who was master of this wood scaffolding that was needed to construct the large monuments of stone. I have wondered if Joseph was not descended from this line.
@@chuckliquor3663 Joseph was an Israelite, even if you’re talking about Joseph from Genesis he is a Son of Jacob.
You would have to look at the original languages of both your source and the Bible to see if there is a connection with what you’re saying, but I would doubt there’s anything there.
I believe the Greek word for Joseph’s profession is τεκτον which basically means house builder. Also related to rocks, since “tectonic” comes from the same root.
@@aaronh8095 Yes, Joseph (of genesis) was an Isrealite, and he was made vizier under the pharoah in Egypt. I'm not certain of what the real history is, but it seems like there is some association between the Hebrew story of exodus, and the disruption posed by Akhenaten in Egyptian history. Your point about the Greek is something interesting to ponder.
Some art in the west shows Christ born in the ruins of King David's palace, now used as a barn.
The cave tradition is written by the fathers. No mention of David’s palace, so far as I am aware.
Did King David even have a palace in Bethlehem?
@@elijah5791 in which church fathers writings can I find more about it? I'm interested to explore it more.
@@Dawidkrk I haven't read anything which mentions a cave, but early in the video (sometime before 1:30) Jonathan mentions St. Justin Martyr. Presumably, one of his writings would mention this.
Well.. it can't be everything all at once, can it? Make up your mind, or be condemned by your own prideful disorder.
Well.. it can't be everything all at once, can it? Make up your mind, or be condemned by your own prideful disorder.
This is great Christmas content!
Merry Christmas Jonathan.
I watched a video describing Orthodoxy as the Ontology of Communion. It's entirely correct, and exactly what Pageau describes here. God Bless You and May Jesus Christ Have Mercy On Us All
I'm so appreciative of your & your brothers work.
I pray the help I need to save my life is found quickly *near* there to finally arrive home. They have descended into hell, & are spiraling further down. The Light. Please help me get to my friends & family. Over a year, thrown alone into a nation completely insane, after it subdued 30 years of memories. Their descent into hell is continuing.
Is Him being in a manger a symbol of the Eucharist?
Yes, He is food for the "animals".
Excellent!! Never thought about that
Yes. He feeds both the clean animal and the unclean animal. The Jew and the Gentile, the just man and the repentant sinner, the well respected and the outcast. “For in him all things hold together.” Colossians 1:17
In orthodox icons the manger resembles a crypt, and the swaddling resembles burial wrappings.
Bethlehem literally means "house of bread" in Hebrew.
Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end(: Study to know what is ending, and beginning pray for wisdom) come."
Matthew 24:12 "And because iniquity(:ἀνομία:anomia: Lawlessness, the desire to seek have no rules of God) shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Pray for wisdom and love the lord thy God with all your remembering and imagining, for will thy getting get understanding. Love does many things, a few among those is it always believes and hopes with an enduring kindness. Won't you be a good tree bearing good fruit?
Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea, a residential complex, a kilometer from Qumran. It was originally a palace for Hasmoneqn royalty. It was called rhe Queen's House. Because animals were stabled there, it was also called the 'Manger'.
Born in a cave, resurrected from a cave.
The first time the Word entered the world was “Let there be light.” The crucifixion was final the moment the Word entered time and space.
please fix the audio it's only playing in one ear makes me go insane
Wow really does it make you go insane
Would you consider doing an analysis on the story/movie 'Into The Wild'?
To me this movie showcases so much so well. Maybe it's not worth it to many of your viewers, but I'm interested in your take :)
A cave?? We remember not wanting to go into the cave because the water was dark without light and it was raging…
Ie the problem of the one of the many. Seems like a similar solution to the one proposed by the neoplatonists
The three wise men. The three Maries
The grace of our LORD JESUS CHRIST be with you all. 🙌
💘
There was no room at the inn so they went to a cave?
Homes in Bethlehem had storage rooms carved into limestone caves. There was no room in the main living area, so they went to the storage cellar.
The 3 wise men are shown at the birth of christ ...though they were never there its symbols they arrived much later........the images are to tell a story in a condensed form
Yes. Everyone was in town for the census. All the rooms were booked. Sort of like air bnb of the time. Ppl who has extra rooms or space would let ppl stay if there was no more space in the inn.
@@dojocho1894- I think the story is pretty clear that they followed the Star shining after Christ was born.
Yes, clefts in rock were used as stables in ancient Israel. They don’t really build much with wood, so the big wooden stable probably isn’t right.
Jonathan is talking about the symbolic significance though, so the exact historical situation is irrelevant to a large extent.
If you think of the word “cave” as a metaphor for the mind, then you are correct. Everything is semantics. The story is being told of Jesus being born in the mind. Or it could be that he was born in a manger where animals live, which is the world around you were all people or animals.
Well.. it can't be everything all at once, can it? Make up your mind, or be condemned by your own prideful disorder.
Jonathan, why did you stop yourself from saying that the entire world is in fact a manifestation of God? In fact, this is the very point of the incarnation. Christ didn't come to unite fallen human nature with the divine nature. There is no separation between the world and God in whom we live and move and have our being. Christ reveals to the world that which it truly is - God made manifest - the Logos.
Hold on there. The world & God is separated but made Union in Christ. Thats why Christian have trinity doctrine. God, Man, Holy Ghost are separated entitiy but United. If you say the world & God have no separation, you fall into the monism doctrine, which is NOT Christian at all. It is a form of heressy.
@@faithhopecharity2843 Separate from God, all would cease to be. Theology must be coherently rooted in ontology not just a collection of concepts we choose to believe. Any theology based on the dualistic separation of God and the world is false. Reality is non-dual (i.e., not-separate). God is everywhere present and fillest all things.
@@Aaron-xb4rq Yet your assertion "God is everywhere present & fillest all things" is also a form of belief. And Christianity is not about the duality. Its about the trinity. I think you are advocating for monism & some form of gnosticism. You tried to generalize Christianity into the more broad teaching of monotheism doctrine. I see what you are doing there.
@@faithhopecharity2843 No, I am actually not talking about belief. I am very definitively saying that God is the source and foundation of being of all that is and that in the multiplicity of reality, no one and no thing is ontologically separate from God. This is not something which must simply be believed. It can be known experientially. The doorway to such a lived knowing (i.e., faith) is prayer. If Christianity claims that God is ontologically separate from creation, then that is in fact dualistic by definition. Belief in a trinity of persons does not fix its dualism because the trinity is still separate from creation. If you are not inherently united to God's eternal being, how could you even exist? You could not.
@@Aaron-xb4rq Okay. First, we both agree we believe in God. Second lets define some terms more clearly. In Christianity, God's essence is divided into three parts, not two parts/duality (In terms of Creator & Creation). Christian believes that God is also the Father. God is also the son. God is the also Holy ghost. If you only think in terms of creator & creation, then you only account for the Father & the Son. You left the Holy ghost. (From now, I will refer to Creator as the Father & creation as the Son)
Holy ghost is the medium in which the Father communicates His will to the Son. The separation between Father & Son is because the Son did not adhere & listen to the prompting of Holy ghost.
Belief in the Trinity, does FIX the dualism dilemma. Because the dualism is never there to begin with. There is no separation between God & creation. Only a mis-communication between all three parts of the Trinity. Also the experiental/lived knowing of God happens when three parts of the Trinity communicate well together.
In Christianity, the culmination of these three parts communicate well together can be experienced in a ritual called COMMUNION. and not a mere prayer like you mentioned before. Because a mere prayer is only the Son's attempt to communicate with the Father. But as long as the Holy ghost is not present in the prayer proccess, then the experiental/lived knowing of the Father by the Son will not happen. True experience of Godness happens when all three parts working & communicating together seamlessly.