Yeah, this would probably end with Piccolo playing Goku's role through the Frieza and Cell sagas (merged with Kami is already approximately around Frieza level; approx because we haven't seen this version without Nail), but up to the Cell saga, he'd need to die to get Gohan up to SSJ2. Not sure how the Buu saga would play out.
@@siegfriedc2332 without Vegeta and Goku fighting it out Buu might never get awakened. Since Gohan may not have slacked off on his training after Cell he would likely be able to defeat Dabura and end the threat before it even began.
Instead of perma-death, I would be interested in seeing what would happen if the Dragon Ball rules were consistent and never changed. Only 1 wish, Porunga and Shenron have the same capabilities, and everyone gets a single resurrection only.
Porunga didn't have the same limits because he was the original dragon and thus more powerful, the earth dragon was limited t the first creator who didn't have his full power having split into both Kami and Piccolo due to the strict nature of the guardian position
If death was permanent alot of changes would be made the z fighters would have to be way more careful in battle (haven't watched full vid) can't wait too see other parts
@@rlm.xplode and the fact Roshi and Krillin are the first one to die in the main cast means they have less power against Nappa and Vegeta. although the reason why Piccolo talks about the dragon balls at the front of Raditz is because he knows they can revive Goku, but if death is permanent, it means Raditz would never have the knowledge about the magical orbs even Nappa and Vegeta which means they will never come to Earth since they don't give a crap about a saibaman in a saiyan body. With no plans of Vegeta and Nappa come to Earth, Piccolo will continue to become a villain or perhaps an anti-hero like Frieza today and Gohan will not be train, that's a win-win situation for Chichi and Bulma since there's no more perverted old man and Gohan will be fully focused on studying. Piccolo may still become good in the future when Android Saga begins but there's no Frieza and King Cold coming to Earth since he never met the main cast including Goku. There's no Future Trunks either because Vegeta never come to Earth to bang with Bulma which means there's no prep time for Piccolo to stop the threat, just hope Piccolo continue to train even if Vegeta and Nappa will not come to Earth.
@@NanobanaKinako well done good observe thinking there. like you said, without warning massage coming from future Trunks who never even exist, i think all the Z fighters will die when the Androids shown up. forget about 17 & 18, 19 & 20 (dr.Gero) will be enough to annihilated all of them
@rlm.xplode Krillin, Roshi and Chiaotzu would've been dead years ago too because they all died in OG, which is why they pursued the Dragon Balls on Namek
@@lonewolfnomadic3403 The androids would be a lot weaker than expected, since Dr. Gero used data of the Z-team against Vegeta and Nappa. Also, with Goku dead, he may not have finished building the androids (or maybe stopped at earlier models).
@@ChibiNyan Exactly, if Goku is dead, there's no reason for him to want to exterminate him... so let's skip to the Buu saga. Buu won't have enough energy here on Earth, so it's likely Babidi would have to go after Frieza. From there, who knows what would happen.
With no Goku around and Vegeta either dying or not being a Z fighter and still being a villain means Gohan chances of becoming a Super Sayain are super slim unless he sees a death of someone like Piccolo but then everything will be screwed cause death is permanent in this timeline, ala no Kami or dragon balls.
Funny thing is the z-fighters didn't even need to get more powerful to deal with nappa they just needed to use their heads better tien could have just used a solar flair on nappa stunning him long enough for krillian to get a disk off cutting nappa in two and while vegeta will also most likely get stunned by the flash as well piccolo could have prepared the special beam cannon to put vegeta in a pack
You make a very compelling argument. But of course, they had to nerf the secondary characters to make room for the main hero Goku. Because he’s the only character that really matters . The others are just meat shields at the end of the day .
@@DamontheDemon7 absolutely tragic my guy makes me wonder why these characters are constantly being called fighting genius when they keep making rookie mistakes
I mean just because the Dragon balls can't revive people anymore does not mean they're useless. They can still be used to heal any still alive survivors from their conflicts or restore any destroyed cities & environments at least. Well provided that they have access to them later on after this.
@@Uncle_Fred I recall Porunga couldn't call Goku to Earth after he escaped Namek because Goku just didn't want to. So no, can't move them if they're stronger than the dragon's maker. But, as the abridged pointed out, they could have wished to change the coordinates of their pods to send them into the sun or the like.
There's something about the idea of the main character we saw struggle and grow up from a boy to a young man all the way through Dragonball actually dying and staying dead that really sticks with me. It takes balls to do something that massive in a story, especially an action shonen.
Honestly makes me think of what kishimoto plans to do with naruto from the looks of it he seems bent on making boruto his successor so how long does he plan on keeping naruto alive? They don't have any magical balls to bring people back or age them to their youth again
That was supposed to happen with Goku's sacrifice during the Cell saga, with Gohan established to carry on his torch as the main protector of Earth, but editors made Goku come back and get focus again.
@@PossessedbyPhoenix people have said the public, the editors, etc made Toriyama bring Goku back, but it was Toriyama himself that felt Gohan wasn’t a good fit for a protagonist
Just imagine being Goku in this. You sacrifice yourself, because there is no other option, but you think you'll be back soon. You arrive in the otherworld and King Yemma just goes: "Nah bruh, I'm done doing redoing paperwork." What a colossal middle finger. I kinda hope a lot of planets go poof in this, because King Yemma deserves a broken arm.
Saiyan Saga would immediately end at the death of Raditz and Goku since the only reason Piccolo mentioned the dragon ball is because Goku will be revived, without it, Piccolo will not mention it and Nappa and Vegeta will not know about the dragon balls so they'll never come to Earth.
@@NanobanaKinako Oh! Good point. I never thought of that. So all that world ending catastrophe that came to earth from all over the universe started not because of Goku's lust for battle... But because of Piccolo's slip of the tongue? Crazy
@@NanobanaKinako Uhh didn't king yemma make the rule of not being able to revive people after Goku had finally got to his turn in front of the check in station. But piccolo wouldn't know this until kami tells him and well piccolo said it right after Goku died, so it basically piccolo would say it first and then later on hear from kami that they can't but Vegeta would've already heard it by then
All Dende would need to do is ask Porunga to unleash Piccolo's hidden potential and that would suffice, Piccolo would demolish Frieza with no effort with his potential unleashed form.
With perma-death, Vegeta and Nappa would probably never bother to come to earth' since Piccolo wouldn't mention the Dragon Balls. They don't come, then no trip to Namek and Frieza never hearing of Namek's Dragon Balls. Dr Gero and android 20 would have faced little opposition, if they even bothered to rampaged out, since Goku is already dead... No Cell, obviously and maybe even no Buu, because no one would have had the strength needed to open his cocoon...
I love this scenario a lot, Scholar. From this scenario, Gohan would replace his father as the main protagonist in the story. Imagine what would have happened if Toriyama-sensei had gone this direction. Dude....😳
I don't see any solution here other than to wish Frieza to Lord Beerus's planet. Not that they would have known about him. Maybe just wish him to some far corner of space where he dies of hunger flying back.
@@Bobboerba If they knew about that, which they don't, it's possible to wish him just above Beerus. There should be just enough surprise to have him fall on Beerus to wake him. Just to be safe, they could also use a wish to wake Beerus.
I thought Piccolo would immediatly enter the room of spirit and time with Gohan to at least train for a month inside of it so maybe they could have a shot but I guess merging with Kami was the only viable option.
I'm gonna stop ya at 50 seconds in. If the Dragon Balls couldn't wish people back, then _would_ Goku have still sacrificed himself? Actually, never mind _your_ plot. I never realized how little sense it makes for Goku to do this even in canon. I mean, once Goku's gone, what's to stop Piccolo from taking over the world or something? Huh. What an absurd oversight. Wish Toriyama was still around to explain that one.
I guess he was only born to get revenge on Son Goku. And once he did it, was kind of left with nothing to do. I do think it was pretty OOC for him to even mention the Dragon Balls in order to move the plot forward.
Toriyama would just tell you "I forgot", like he did with Launch though To answer your question, Goku has believed Piccolo could become a better person since his fight in the tournament, it wouldn't make sense to let Piccolo roam the earth freely if he was as evil as his previous incarnation, so to me it's obvious Goku always knew there was now actual good on him, which obviously proved to be true. Btw, I 100% agree that Goku wouldn't let himself be killed if he knew it was permanent, but what the video implied is that they were only told that they couldn't be revived anymore when Goku arrived in the otherworld, which basically means this what if starts after Raditz and Goku dies.
Great video! The amount this changes is wild… imagine Goku gone episode 1… how nuts that would be. Instead Piccolo and Gohan become to protagonists… Goten won’t be born, Vegeta may stay a villain and never hook up with Bulma. It would be cool if as an adult (assuming he makes it to adulthood) Gohan sees Goku if Heaven allows him to return to earth for the 24 hour tournament. The emotional impact of that would be intense.
Summon Shenron, give power to piccolo, fuse with Kami, get Orange Kamiccolo to wipe vegeta, then wipe frieza in Namek, get Puroga to boost Kamicco, wipe Cell quick, wipe babidi before he summon buu. Die to Beerus. GG
Get revived in Namek, fuse with all Namekians, kill Beerus, make super dragon balls, summon super Shenron, kill Whis, Moro, Gas, Garnola, Black Frieza, Black Cooler.
If death was permanent in Dragon Ball, I think, almost like you, they’d be way more careful. Piccolo would probably take over as the main character. I mean, Piccolo fusing with Kami would be a broken power scaling, making him like 2x stronger than SSJ Namek saga Goku. Plus, if Piccolo trained Gohan harder in the Time Chamber, Gohan would be at least as strong as FPSSJ Goku which is far above Android 17/18, and if Dabura show up Gohan could tap to ssj2 just like Future Trunks did too to Dabura and Gohan will never skip 7 years training which is would make Gohan crazy strong. And if something worse happen then Piccolo could wish with Shenron to unlock his true potential just like he did in super hero when he doesnt rely on Goku power, where Orange Piccolo would be a lot stronger than SSB Goku to defeats Golden Frieza if Frieza comeback, Piccolo can low diff Golden Frieza. So yeah, with a "what if" like that, I totally get why Toriyama loves Piccolo as a his favorite character.
Not quite yet because Picollo doesn't have Nail, and these are all multipliers to his base power, and at this point in the story Picollo isn't anywhere close to being as strong as he was after fighting with Frieza, then training intensely for three years for the Androids. So even with Kami fusion he probably needs lots of extra training to beat Final Form Frieza and may have to rely on Gohan being pushed to Super Saiyan (with the most likely scenario being Picollo getting hurt badly in front of his eyes, especially since Krillin's already dead).
@@PossessedbyPhoenix Nah, you don’t get power scaling in DB. Piccolo’s fusion with Nail only made him slightly stronger than Frieza's 2nd form. And when Piccolo fused with Kami, it boosted him a ton even without Nail, Piccolo would definitely be stronger than SSJ Namek saga Goku. Just so you know, in the Android arc, Android 18 no to low diffs SSJ Vegeta who has been train 3 years, stronger than SSJ Namek saga Goku. So, of course, Piccolo could take down 100% Frieza easily
Two problems with this hypothetical scenario: 1. Vegeta would've destroyed them all immediately; no way would he give them three hours to collect the dragon balls. This Vegeta has no "honor" as he's cruel, callous and ruthless. And this Piccolo would rather go down fighting than negotiate with Vegeta. 2. Piccolo at this stage has no idea of the concept of merging with Kami; he first learns of this technique on Namek when he meets Nail, ergo he'd never even think of it.
My only issue with this is that if reviving people is no longer possible with the Dragon Balls, why would immortality still be possible? If you can't beat death, I would imagine you wouldn't be able to cheat it either.
The framing is that King Yemma isn't letting people from back from the dead. If you just never die, you aren't in his juristiction. Which does raise the fun idea of some sort of death enforcers...
This is an interesting what if scenario. I'm not sure exactly how powerful Piccolo would be while fused with Kami at this point in time, but I think he'd be way beyond Vegeta. Possibly around the level of First-form Frieza or beyond. That might seem far fetched to some, but Namekian fusion is crazy powerful. When Piccolo was brought back during the Frieza Saga, his power level was only within the range of the Ginyu Force (50,000 more or less). But when fused with Nail, he was already beyond Second-form Frieza and his power level was well over 1 million. So even with a less powerful Piccolo fusing with Kami during the Saiyan Saga, there should still be a crazy jump in power.
I like it. Drastic changes, drastic measures. I know my version would not be as interesting as this one but what if they wished Piccolo or Kami to be immortal before the Saiyans arrived so the cycle cannot be broken between the 2 of them. Then the Dragonballs wouldn’t have to vanish and whenever Frieza or Vegeta wishes for immortality, just wish for them back to mortal status.
It would be more interisting if the rule for "the same wish can't be made again" would be consistent, wich would mean that porunga could revive someone.
Very well thought out! I’d swap Krillin in for Tien because he’s more likable, it’s cool to see a strong little guy, and I think having Goku’s best friend still around does more for the story. However, that’s really my only little quibble. Looking forward to seeing the story continue!
Yeah, I was just thinking myself that if the Dragon Balls couldn't revive people as far back as King Piccolo, then Goku would not have gone Super Saiyan without the influence of Krillin's death later on. For that matter it's possible that the gang would have never tried going to Namek since the whole point of doing so was to revive their fallen allies.
would certainly fix the lack of drama the story has if people couldn't revive. thinking about Goku vs frieza. it really didn't mattter if goku died, they could have just revived him on earth (even if it took 2 wishes) trained for whatever amount of time it takes friezas forces to get to earth.and destroy him. time chamber is still and option at this point.
Good Story, Small Criticism, Krillin Was Stronger than Both Tien and Yamcha in the Saiyan Battle so he Would've had a Higher survival chance than the others
I think one interesting thing you could add to the story is for the remaining Z-Fighters to heavily utilize the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. With them being on lesser time, and not be able to rely on Goku and the others for support, they could use the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to continuously get stronger to deal with the upcoming threats. Using it more frequently, and possibly for longer periods of time would give them an advantage when dealing with stronger enemies. Especially with a limited amount of time, just as they did in the Buu Saga!
Piccolo’s fusion with God was only a 4x boost at a highball though, so it won’t be enough to beat Vegeta considering this Piccolo probably taps out at around 4000 (since he trained harder) so he’d be at like 16000, which is still lower than Vegeta and Vegeta has Ozaru. The only way I see them winning is with some Special Beam canon shenanigans. Since with this boost, that would now be enough to beat Vegeta.
I feel like not covering db is a mistake. With krillins and chiatzous death, goku and tien would train harder, learn new techniques and be more careful. But seeing piccolo be the protagonist is cool
Piccolo and Kami reunited and before splitting up into two were said to rival the likes of a super saiyan capable of defeating Frieza which means he'd end Vegeta with his eye lasers alone.
One thing you didn't take in mind, they can cheat Goku in thanks to Uranai Baba, considering battles in Dragon Ball last a few minutes or even mere seconds, enough time for Baba's 24 hour limit
Fan theory: If Vegeta got his wish for immortality, he might never have become a Super Saiyan. Saiyans get zenkai boosts when they survive a battle coming back **from the brink of death** only. If Vegeta is never brought to the brink of death (he cannot die), he won't get the zenkai boosts. Ergo, it might take him to the Buu saga to reach Super Saiyan, if he ever does at all.
Very cool concept. I know we're not talking strict power levels but it'll be interesting to see what Piccolo's power is relative to Vegeta. This is a weaker Piccolo of course compared to when he refused with Kami during the Cell Saga but Piccolo still would have a substantial boost and should be enough to take out Vegeta easily. I'm curious to see how you go forward with effectively Piccolo and Gohan being the two main characters and Z fighters going forward unless Vegeta is still spared later after his defeat. Hopefully it doesn't handicap you too much or mean you have to make some big leaps of faith in terms of how quickly they gain power. I do also think that King Yemma would've cut things off after Yamcha wished everyone back at the end of Dragon Ball. That would've been the first major imbalance and thus he would've relayed the message to Kami after that. Hence Goku wouldn't have so brazenly sacrificed himself fighting Radditz if he knew what was at stake.
The relevant change is that the dragonballs are now essentially only used for immortality. Piccolo makes himself immortal instead of resurrecting Goku and styles on Nappa and Vegeta. Going to Namek becomes irrelevant and the Androids never proliferate.
This is exactly what would have gone down. Excellent episode. I look forward to Piccolo's absolute clobbering at the hands of Vegeta. Sorry Piccolo. Unless Piccolo takes Gohan into the time chamber with a pile of sensu beans, it's hard to see how the Earth survives this. I suppose they could also use the dragon balls to wish Vegeta into some distance corner of space too.
Damn Piccolo really fumbles here "you know how you just flexed that we have dragon balls that can revive Goku and are basically responsible for making the saiyans come to earth? Yeah that doesn't work anymore"
I was about to say, if resurrection is not awolled anymore, then Krilin, Chaotzu and Roshi stayed dead after King Piccolo's saga, but since you killed them off against the saiyans I guess the story stays on point.
Would be very interesting how the Super Dragon Balls will work and if their limitless power will truly be limitless and be able to circumvent the rule of death being permanent.
That's actually....pretty good. I do believe goku would still manage to come back somehow, like a convenient plot device where...eg a tournament of power of the dead made once per 1000 years would actually let you get resurrected!
Imagine they went to the lookout and Vegeta was just there chilling. "You really didn't think i would let you collect the Dragon Balls by yourself, did you?"
I like What ifs that follow the situation as close as possible. Making them all 50% strong breaks the scenario unless you state that instead of wishing back Goku they gave themselves a power boost. Having Krillin get killed with Chatozu with out an explanation like, Goku doesn't show up with Senzu beans breaks the flow of the story. In the end if Goku didn't show up when he did they would have all died. Nappa would have stomped Gohan like a bug. The only alt I can think of is Yajirobi stops hiding sooner and has the senzu beans. I think Nappa and Vegeta would have killed them all. Still it's better to explain the alterations.
Goku and Tien would be more obsessed in getting stronger after Kuririn, Roshi and Chiaotzu died in classic, he would not die against Raditz and would be more careful.
If you really read dragonball with cautious you can see that there always was hints that Piccolo junior isn't actually evil like his dad. Even when he killing Radits with Goku he is thinking about Dragonballs and how Goku's friends will resurrect him. You can even say that he is comforting himself with a thought that Goku will be back. So my point is - Piccolo wouldn't killed Goku if he knew that he can't be resurrected.
Great vid, although If Frieza knew about the Dragon balls from the Vegeta's and Nappa's scouters and goes to Namek and then Earth (since I doubt any namekian would let him get his wish getting the planet destroyed.) I feel like it's over and Frieza wins. I don't believe the Nameless Namekian before Piccolo's training with King Kai would be enough to beat Frieza he may be at the same level Goku was when he fought Frieza before the Super Saiyan transformation.
Kamiccolo kills Vegeta, takes Gohan under his wing and trains him for the years to come. The Androids arrive, Gohan as already attained SSJ and after a long fight, Piccolo is beaten down. Gohan grows enraged and turns SSJ2. Kills the Androids and the world is saved. He keeps up with his training given that Goku is gone and Piccolo died. Imperfect Cell shows up and is man-handled by Gohan, soon followed by Supreme Kai who warns of Babidi. Gohan undergoes training on his world, breaks the Z Sword, unlocks his potential and destroys Babidi and Dabura. End of Z. This is how it played out in my head playing Sparking Zero last night lol Super doesn't happen because it sucks.
It might be interesting to have Goku use his one day special return to train Gohan in the hyperbolic time chamber much later on. Getting Gohan to SSJ3. Not sure it works that way tho.
1000 Likes = Part 2 Unlocked!
UPDATE: Part 2 is LIVE NOW - ua-cam.com/video/BVnMMRc6pms/v-deo.html
Damn, that was quick.
Already at 1k part 2 please
Looking forward to Part 2!
Can't wait!!!!
Alternate Title:
Dragon Ball Z, but Piccolo is the protagonist
Piccolo is the interim protagonist. Gohan takes over for a bit then perhaps someone else after Buu. Maybe Tien can get an arc as the main guy too.
Yeah, this would probably end with Piccolo playing Goku's role through the Frieza and Cell sagas (merged with Kami is already approximately around Frieza level; approx because we haven't seen this version without Nail), but up to the Cell saga, he'd need to die to get Gohan up to SSJ2. Not sure how the Buu saga would play out.
@@siegfriedc2332 without Vegeta and Goku fighting it out Buu might never get awakened. Since Gohan may not have slacked off on his training after Cell he would likely be able to defeat Dabura and end the threat before it even began.
YES, YES! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!
He is strong! He is great! HE CAN DO THIS!
@@siegfriedc2332 he’d probably be stronger than Frieza, piccolo went form getting jumped by Gero to almost killing 17.
Instead of perma-death, I would be interested in seeing what would happen if the Dragon Ball rules were consistent and never changed. Only 1 wish, Porunga and Shenron have the same capabilities, and everyone gets a single resurrection only.
@@gravethestampede3454 Yes this was exactly my thought!
Yeah. Even the "you only get one death" thing actually being enforced would give some consequences, so none of that letting Buu kill everyone crap
It’ll just be like Super where nobody dies
I honestly wish it stayed like this
Porunga didn't have the same limits because he was the original dragon and thus more powerful, the earth dragon was limited t the first creator who didn't have his full power having split into both Kami and Piccolo due to the strict nature of the guardian position
If death was permanent alot of changes would be made the z fighters would have to be way more careful in battle (haven't watched full vid) can't wait too see other parts
@@rlm.xplode and the fact Roshi and Krillin are the first one to die in the main cast means they have less power against Nappa and Vegeta. although the reason why Piccolo talks about the dragon balls at the front of Raditz is because he knows they can revive Goku, but if death is permanent, it means Raditz would never have the knowledge about the magical orbs even Nappa and Vegeta which means they will never come to Earth since they don't give a crap about a saibaman in a saiyan body. With no plans of Vegeta and Nappa come to Earth, Piccolo will continue to become a villain or perhaps an anti-hero like Frieza today and Gohan will not be train, that's a win-win situation for Chichi and Bulma since there's no more perverted old man and Gohan will be fully focused on studying. Piccolo may still become good in the future when Android Saga begins but there's no Frieza and King Cold coming to Earth since he never met the main cast including Goku. There's no Future Trunks either because Vegeta never come to Earth to bang with Bulma which means there's no prep time for Piccolo to stop the threat, just hope Piccolo continue to train even if Vegeta and Nappa will not come to Earth.
@@NanobanaKinako well done good observe thinking there. like you said, without warning massage coming from future Trunks who never even exist, i think all the Z fighters will die when the Androids shown up. forget about 17 & 18, 19 & 20 (dr.Gero) will be enough to annihilated all of them
@rlm.xplode Krillin, Roshi and Chiaotzu would've been dead years ago too because they all died in OG, which is why they pursued the Dragon Balls on Namek
@@lonewolfnomadic3403 The androids would be a lot weaker than expected, since Dr. Gero used data of the Z-team against Vegeta and Nappa.
Also, with Goku dead, he may not have finished building the androids (or maybe stopped at earlier models).
@@ChibiNyan Exactly, if Goku is dead, there's no reason for him to want to exterminate him... so let's skip to the Buu saga. Buu won't have enough energy here on Earth, so it's likely Babidi would have to go after Frieza. From there, who knows what would happen.
This is the great chance that Gohan could be the hero of the story.
Exactly what I was thinking.
He wouldn't even be a hero since he would die a long time ago
dude no if deaht was for good in db then n goku for saiyans no oen cna turn super saiyn to sotp frieza so gohan dies he wont be a hero
Piccolo gonna have to hard carry Gohan into a Super Saiyan cause without Goku I have no idea how they will figure out Super saiyan
With no Goku around and Vegeta either dying or not being a Z fighter and still being a villain means Gohan chances of becoming a Super Sayain are super slim unless he sees a death of someone like Piccolo but then everything will be screwed cause death is permanent in this timeline, ala no Kami or dragon balls.
Funny thing is the z-fighters didn't even need to get more powerful to deal with nappa they just needed to use their heads better tien could have just used a solar flair on nappa stunning him long enough for krillian to get a disk off cutting nappa in two and while vegeta will also most likely get stunned by the flash as well piccolo could have prepared the special beam cannon to put vegeta in a pack
Technically Krillen wouldn't be here he got killed in dragon ball and would've stayed dead.
@baseupp12 he said in the vid this arc starts at the saiyan saga and krillian is alive in it he even says that krillian would die to nappa
You make a very compelling argument.
But of course, they had to nerf the secondary characters to make room for the main hero Goku.
Because he’s the only character that really matters .
The others are just meat shields at the end of the day .
@@DamontheDemon7 absolutely tragic my guy makes me wonder why these characters are constantly being called fighting genius when they keep making rookie mistakes
They could have absolutely killed Nappa in the main timeline. They just aren't smart enough to join forces and use their techniques.
7:08 At this point it’s just “Z!”
😂😂😂😂😂
I mean just because the Dragon balls can't revive people anymore does not mean they're useless. They can still be used to heal any still alive survivors from their conflicts or restore any destroyed cities & environments at least. Well provided that they have access to them later on after this.
Or give dead loved ones, a pass to the living world for 100 years.
Couldn;t they just wish Vegeta to some far away corner of the universe? Can't hurt Earth if he's a corpse drifting in space.
@@Uncle_Fred I recall Porunga couldn't call Goku to Earth after he escaped Namek because Goku just didn't want to. So no, can't move them if they're stronger than the dragon's maker.
But, as the abridged pointed out, they could have wished to change the coordinates of their pods to send them into the sun or the like.
They tried that in the show the saying were too powerful according to shenron
@@EdgardoJCruz-dk5kv for this we have the senzu beans
There's something about the idea of the main character we saw struggle and grow up from a boy to a young man all the way through Dragonball actually dying and staying dead that really sticks with me.
It takes balls to do something that massive in a story, especially an action shonen.
Oh yes. I think this is why the Android Saga Future Timeline is considered memorable for it being dark and taking no prisoners.
Honestly makes me think of what kishimoto plans to do with naruto from the looks of it he seems bent on making boruto his successor so how long does he plan on keeping naruto alive? They don't have any magical balls to bring people back or age them to their youth again
That was supposed to happen with Goku's sacrifice during the Cell saga, with Gohan established to carry on his torch as the main protector of Earth, but editors made Goku come back and get focus again.
@@PossessedbyPhoenix people have said the public, the editors, etc made Toriyama bring Goku back, but it was Toriyama himself that felt Gohan wasn’t a good fit for a protagonist
In this case it would not take (Dragon) Balls.
But yeah would be an interesting twist.
Now... I've seen a lot of what ifs... THIS IS TOP NOTCH
Just imagine being Goku in this. You sacrifice yourself, because there is no other option, but you think you'll be back soon. You arrive in the otherworld and King Yemma just goes: "Nah bruh, I'm done doing redoing paperwork."
What a colossal middle finger. I kinda hope a lot of planets go poof in this, because King Yemma deserves a broken arm.
Earth is cooked
as long as gohan and piccolo is alive nope. and then future trunks
Then they wouldn’t make it past the Sayian Saga.
Saiyan Saga would immediately end at the death of Raditz and Goku since the only reason Piccolo mentioned the dragon ball is because Goku will be revived, without it, Piccolo will not mention it and Nappa and Vegeta will not know about the dragon balls so they'll never come to Earth.
@@NanobanaKinako Oh!
Good point.
I never thought of that.
So all that world ending catastrophe that came to earth from all over the universe started not because of Goku's lust for battle...
But because of Piccolo's slip of the tongue?
Crazy
@@NanobanaKinako Uhh didn't king yemma make the rule of not being able to revive people after Goku had finally got to his turn in front of the check in station. But piccolo wouldn't know this until kami tells him and well piccolo said it right after Goku died, so it basically piccolo would say it first and then later on hear from kami that they can't but Vegeta would've already heard it by then
@@NanobanaKinakonope, android arc would still happen.
All Dende would need to do is ask Porunga to unleash Piccolo's hidden potential and that would suffice, Piccolo would demolish Frieza with no effort with his potential unleashed form.
1:44 CLOTHES BEAM!!!
😂
With perma-death, Vegeta and Nappa would probably never bother to come to earth' since Piccolo wouldn't mention the Dragon Balls. They don't come, then no trip to Namek and Frieza never hearing of Namek's Dragon Balls. Dr Gero and android 20 would have faced little opposition, if they even bothered to rampaged out, since Goku is already dead... No Cell, obviously and maybe even no Buu, because no one would have had the strength needed to open his cocoon...
Piccolo could bring up the dragon balls before being aware of Yemmas decision
I love this scenario a lot, Scholar. From this scenario, Gohan would replace his father as the main protagonist in the story. Imagine what would have happened if Toriyama-sensei had gone this direction. Dude....😳
Great video
Awesome idea for a 'what if'
Frieza about to go crazy unless a SUPER DUPER namekian fusion happens
I don't see any solution here other than to wish Frieza to Lord Beerus's planet. Not that they would have known about him. Maybe just wish him to some far corner of space where he dies of hunger flying back.
@@Uncle_Fredfreeza is FAST he would find a planet he owns call king cold and go get revenge on earth
Also beerus=zzzz
@@Bobboerba If they knew about that, which they don't, it's possible to wish him just above Beerus. There should be just enough surprise to have him fall on Beerus to wake him. Just to be safe, they could also use a wish to wake Beerus.
I thought Piccolo would immediatly enter the room of spirit and time with Gohan to at least train for a month inside of it so maybe they could have a shot but I guess merging with Kami was the only viable option.
They could also use the dragon balls to wish Vegeta into some distance corner of the universe.
My guess is that they would have limited time and Vegeta aiming to destroy the Earth at any moment so the time chamber was off the table.
Piccolo doesn't know about the time chamber though, so it doesn't matter @@justinarzola4584
@justinarzola4584 they had a year to prep it shouldn't matter
@@nani4249 It depends on how long Vegeta waits to try to destroy the Earth.
I'm gonna stop ya at 50 seconds in. If the Dragon Balls couldn't wish people back, then _would_ Goku have still sacrificed himself? Actually, never mind _your_ plot. I never realized how little sense it makes for Goku to do this even in canon. I mean, once Goku's gone, what's to stop Piccolo from taking over the world or something?
Huh. What an absurd oversight. Wish Toriyama was still around to explain that one.
I guess he was only born to get revenge on Son Goku. And once he did it, was kind of left with nothing to do. I do think it was pretty OOC for him to even mention the Dragon Balls in order to move the plot forward.
Well, Piccolo did immediately get news that more powerful adversaries were coming so I don't think he had alot of time to even contemplate it all.
Toriyama would just tell you "I forgot", like he did with Launch though
To answer your question, Goku has believed Piccolo could become a better person since his fight in the tournament, it wouldn't make sense to let Piccolo roam the earth freely if he was as evil as his previous incarnation, so to me it's obvious Goku always knew there was now actual good on him, which obviously proved to be true.
Btw, I 100% agree that Goku wouldn't let himself be killed if he knew it was permanent, but what the video implied is that they were only told that they couldn't be revived anymore when Goku arrived in the otherworld, which basically means this what if starts after Raditz and Goku dies.
Tbh kami can just kill himself.
This was my thought as well. Although I'm not sure how Goku could have survived.
Great video! The amount this changes is wild… imagine Goku gone episode 1… how nuts that would be. Instead Piccolo and Gohan become to protagonists…
Goten won’t be born, Vegeta may stay a villain and never hook up with Bulma.
It would be cool if as an adult (assuming he makes it to adulthood) Gohan sees Goku if Heaven allows him to return to earth for the 24 hour tournament. The emotional impact of that would be intense.
@0:36 "Yemma LOCKS down..."
I see what you did there
Summon Shenron, give power to piccolo, fuse with Kami, get Orange Kamiccolo to wipe vegeta, then wipe frieza in Namek, get Puroga to boost Kamicco, wipe Cell quick, wipe babidi before he summon buu. Die to Beerus.
GG
Get revived in Namek, fuse with all Namekians, kill Beerus, make super dragon balls, summon super Shenron, kill Whis, Moro, Gas, Garnola, Black Frieza, Black Cooler.
The Usual piccolo W
the thumbnail is something fans have always wished to see
I saw the thumbnail, that was all i needed to watch this video! Great Work!
Glad you liked it! You'll love P2!
@@SaiyanScholar i look forward it!
If death was permanent in Dragon Ball, I think, almost like you, they’d be way more careful. Piccolo would probably take over as the main character. I mean, Piccolo fusing with Kami would be a broken power scaling, making him like 2x stronger than SSJ Namek saga Goku.
Plus, if Piccolo trained Gohan harder in the Time Chamber, Gohan would be at least as strong as FPSSJ Goku which is far above Android 17/18, and if Dabura show up Gohan could tap to ssj2 just like Future Trunks did too to Dabura and Gohan will never skip 7 years training which is would make Gohan crazy strong. And if something worse happen then Piccolo could wish with Shenron to unlock his true potential just like he did in super hero when he doesnt rely on Goku power, where Orange Piccolo would be a lot stronger than SSB Goku to defeats Golden Frieza if Frieza comeback, Piccolo can low diff Golden Frieza. So yeah, with a "what if" like that, I totally get why Toriyama loves Piccolo as a his favorite character.
Not quite yet because Picollo doesn't have Nail, and these are all multipliers to his base power, and at this point in the story Picollo isn't anywhere close to being as strong as he was after fighting with Frieza, then training intensely for three years for the Androids. So even with Kami fusion he probably needs lots of extra training to beat Final Form Frieza and may have to rely on Gohan being pushed to Super Saiyan (with the most likely scenario being Picollo getting hurt badly in front of his eyes, especially since Krillin's already dead).
@@PossessedbyPhoenix Nah, you don’t get power scaling in DB. Piccolo’s fusion with Nail only made him slightly stronger than Frieza's 2nd form. And when Piccolo fused with Kami, it boosted him a ton even without Nail, Piccolo would definitely be stronger than SSJ Namek saga Goku. Just so you know, in the Android arc, Android 18 no to low diffs SSJ Vegeta who has been train 3 years, stronger than SSJ Namek saga Goku. So, of course, Piccolo could take down 100% Frieza easily
As always, another great video. Very interesting take.
Two problems with this hypothetical scenario:
1. Vegeta would've destroyed them all immediately; no way would he give them three hours to collect the dragon balls. This Vegeta has no "honor" as he's cruel, callous and ruthless. And this Piccolo would rather go down fighting than negotiate with Vegeta.
2. Piccolo at this stage has no idea of the concept of merging with Kami; he first learns of this technique on Namek when he meets Nail, ergo he'd never even think of it.
This Vegeta literally waited around for Goku to show up though
@@huk2617yea because he wanted a challenge
@@huk2617 Because Goku was a fellow Saiyan, one who needed to be punished for betrayal.
That's why Vegeta waited three hours.
My only issue with this is that if reviving people is no longer possible with the Dragon Balls, why would immortality still be possible? If you can't beat death, I would imagine you wouldn't be able to cheat it either.
You think Vegeta would believe that if they told him?
The framing is that King Yemma isn't letting people from back from the dead. If you just never die, you aren't in his juristiction. Which does raise the fun idea of some sort of death enforcers...
This is amazing! I love it!
This video earned a sub. Great content
Thank you so much! Part 3 is coming
This is an interesting what if scenario. I'm not sure exactly how powerful Piccolo would be while fused with Kami at this point in time, but I think he'd be way beyond Vegeta. Possibly around the level of First-form Frieza or beyond.
That might seem far fetched to some, but Namekian fusion is crazy powerful. When Piccolo was brought back during the Frieza Saga, his power level was only within the range of the Ginyu Force (50,000 more or less). But when fused with Nail, he was already beyond Second-form Frieza and his power level was well over 1 million. So even with a less powerful Piccolo fusing with Kami during the Saiyan Saga, there should still be a crazy jump in power.
Great story so far man. Keep them coming.
I would imagine they would be pretty lost in the buu saga
That’s why it likley won’t happen because if it did buu would absolutely start cooking he would probably even go to other world just for the fun
This was really good, can't wait for the next part!
cant wait for part 2
this was too good. We need part 2 asap
I like it. Drastic changes, drastic measures. I know my version would not be as interesting as this one but what if they wished Piccolo or Kami to be immortal before the Saiyans arrived so the cycle cannot be broken between the 2 of them. Then the Dragonballs wouldn’t have to vanish and whenever Frieza or Vegeta wishes for immortality, just wish for them back to mortal status.
Thanks for the donation! You're awesome! I also think you should write that story all the way!
It would be more interisting if the rule for "the same wish can't be made again" would be consistent, wich would mean that porunga could revive someone.
This was dope ASF 🎉🎉🎉
Holy crap! THAT'S a cliffhanger!
Damn that was a pretty epic alternative story not gonna lie
good video.
What if Dragon Balls could revive people only once, no matter which are being used
This was a very interesting what if, looking forward to more.
Early Vegeta didn't know that if picclo died the dragon balls do too. They made a point of this in the original plot. I see Vegeta going then.
Ayoo ??? Straight fire story ?? 🔥🔥🔥
Very well thought out! I’d swap Krillin in for Tien because he’s more likable, it’s cool to see a strong little guy, and I think having Goku’s best friend still around does more for the story. However, that’s really my only little quibble. Looking forward to seeing the story continue!
That thumb wouldn't even be piccolo. It would be Gohan exhausted for surviving nappa somehow.
Roshi, chioutzu, and krillin wouldn't even be alive at all anywhere in z if death was permanent in dragon ball.
The King Piccolo arc comes to mind.
I thought this too, but at the start he says king yemma shut it down. So everybody was able to be revived until DBZ
Yeah, I was just thinking myself that if the Dragon Balls couldn't revive people as far back as King Piccolo, then Goku would not have gone Super Saiyan without the influence of Krillin's death later on. For that matter it's possible that the gang would have never tried going to Namek since the whole point of doing so was to revive their fallen allies.
Did you watch the video?
He said from Z onwards. Watch the video.
would certainly fix the lack of drama the story has if people couldn't revive.
thinking about Goku vs frieza. it really didn't mattter if goku died, they could have just revived him on earth (even if it took 2 wishes) trained for whatever amount of time it takes friezas forces to get to earth.and destroy him. time chamber is still and option at this point.
Without the hope of Goku coming back, Gohan would have launched an attack on Nappa and not been scared.
Good Story, Small Criticism, Krillin Was Stronger than Both Tien and Yamcha in the Saiyan Battle so he Would've had a Higher survival chance than the others
Raditz won, Z done
I don’t think this many sense because Piccolo doesn’t know about fusing until Nail brings it up. They would be pretty much be fucked
I think one interesting thing you could add to the story is for the remaining Z-Fighters to heavily utilize the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. With them being on lesser time, and not be able to rely on Goku and the others for support, they could use the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to continuously get stronger to deal with the upcoming threats. Using it more frequently, and possibly for longer periods of time would give them an advantage when dealing with stronger enemies. Especially with a limited amount of time, just as they did in the Buu Saga!
Bro cooked, so hype for rhe next episode
Krillin being killed off this early is unfortunate. He was Goku's best friend you'd think he would carry on as the Turtle School fighter.
Piccolo’s fusion with God was only a 4x boost at a highball though, so it won’t be enough to beat Vegeta considering this Piccolo probably taps out at around 4000 (since he trained harder) so he’d be at like 16000, which is still lower than Vegeta and Vegeta has Ozaru.
The only way I see them winning is with some Special Beam canon shenanigans. Since with this boost, that would now be enough to beat Vegeta.
Dr Gero: Wow. NOW WHAT DO I DO? I guess I can make that brain wave tank I was working on...
I feel like not covering db is a mistake. With krillins and chiatzous death, goku and tien would train harder, learn new techniques and be more careful. But seeing piccolo be the protagonist is cool
Great video
Piccolo and Kami reunited and before splitting up into two were said to rival the likes of a super saiyan capable of defeating Frieza which means he'd end Vegeta with his eye lasers alone.
One thing you didn't take in mind, they can cheat Goku in thanks to Uranai Baba, considering battles in Dragon Ball last a few minutes or even mere seconds, enough time for Baba's 24 hour limit
Fan theory: If Vegeta got his wish for immortality, he might never have become a Super Saiyan. Saiyans get zenkai boosts when they survive a battle coming back **from the brink of death** only. If Vegeta is never brought to the brink of death (he cannot die), he won't get the zenkai boosts. Ergo, it might take him to the Buu saga to reach Super Saiyan, if he ever does at all.
This is a 🔥🔥🔥🔥 what if, always wanted a scenario where the DragonBalls couldn't bring anyone back. Can't wait for part 2.
Very cool concept. I know we're not talking strict power levels but it'll be interesting to see what Piccolo's power is relative to Vegeta. This is a weaker Piccolo of course compared to when he refused with Kami during the Cell Saga but Piccolo still would have a substantial boost and should be enough to take out Vegeta easily.
I'm curious to see how you go forward with effectively Piccolo and Gohan being the two main characters and Z fighters going forward unless Vegeta is still spared later after his defeat. Hopefully it doesn't handicap you too much or mean you have to make some big leaps of faith in terms of how quickly they gain power.
I do also think that King Yemma would've cut things off after Yamcha wished everyone back at the end of Dragon Ball. That would've been the first major imbalance and thus he would've relayed the message to Kami after that. Hence Goku wouldn't have so brazenly sacrificed himself fighting Radditz if he knew what was at stake.
The relevant change is that the dragonballs are now essentially only used for immortality.
Piccolo makes himself immortal instead of resurrecting Goku and styles on Nappa and Vegeta. Going to Namek becomes irrelevant and the Androids never proliferate.
I believe that MasakoX did a what if about this.
1:36 need this outfit for him in Sparking zero
If death was permanent, they'd never go to Namek, since they went there to revive their friends.
This is exactly what would have gone down. Excellent episode.
I look forward to Piccolo's absolute clobbering at the hands of Vegeta. Sorry Piccolo.
Unless Piccolo takes Gohan into the time chamber with a pile of sensu beans, it's hard to see how the Earth survives this. I suppose they could also use the dragon balls to wish Vegeta into some distance corner of space too.
they cant do that if he rfused to remeebr goku reufed to eb wished to earth in frieza sgaa so they can refuse
Short answer: Vegeta and Nappa kill everyone and get screwed by Freeza on Namek. The end.
Wow poor tien. So violent, i love it! So sad for him.
Damn Piccolo really fumbles here "you know how you just flexed that we have dragon balls that can revive Goku and are basically responsible for making the saiyans come to earth? Yeah that doesn't work anymore"
@Saiyan Scholar,
Sequel ppllLEASEE 🙏🙏🙏
If they can't wish Goku back to life then they would wish someone was immortal, most likely Piccolo.
Then there would be a lot less death
I was about to say, if resurrection is not awolled anymore, then Krilin, Chaotzu and Roshi stayed dead after King Piccolo's saga, but since you killed them off against the saiyans I guess the story stays on point.
The ruling starts in Z because of the resurrections in OG.
Would be very interesting how the Super Dragon Balls will work and if their limitless power will truly be limitless and be able to circumvent the rule of death being permanent.
Goku's personality would drastically change, least without the dragon balls he wouldn't just take everything for granted.
Going go need the Shinigami from Bleach to have a shot at Freeza, but they probably can't leave other world either.
That's actually....pretty good. I do believe goku would still manage to come back somehow, like a convenient plot device where...eg a tournament of power of the dead made once per 1000 years would actually let you get resurrected!
They could've used those 3 hours "looking for Dragonballs" to train for a year or 2 in the hyperbolic time chamber.
Imagine they went to the lookout and Vegeta was just there chilling. "You really didn't think i would let you collect the Dragon Balls by yourself, did you?"
I really hate how dragon balls are abused for silly wishes... especially in DBS!! Bulma wishing for a bigger @ss? Wtf..
I like What ifs that follow the situation as close as possible. Making them all 50% strong breaks the scenario unless you state that instead of wishing back Goku they gave themselves a power boost. Having Krillin get killed with Chatozu with out an explanation like, Goku doesn't show up with Senzu beans breaks the flow of the story.
In the end if Goku didn't show up when he did they would have all died. Nappa would have stomped Gohan like a bug. The only alt I can think of is Yajirobi stops hiding sooner and has the senzu beans. I think Nappa and Vegeta would have killed them all. Still it's better to explain the alterations.
This is why it's called a fan story bro.
Krillin deserved some love, his destructo disc is a one hit kill attack
that shit was fire
If death was permanent then King Kai would never come back.
Goku and Tien would be more obsessed in getting stronger after Kuririn, Roshi and Chiaotzu died in classic, he would not die against Raditz and would be more careful.
Huh, interesting concept.
If you really read dragonball with cautious you can see that there always was hints that Piccolo junior isn't actually evil like his dad. Even when he killing Radits with Goku he is thinking about Dragonballs and how Goku's friends will resurrect him. You can even say that he is comforting himself with a thought that Goku will be back.
So my point is - Piccolo wouldn't killed Goku if he knew that he can't be resurrected.
Piccolo only learned to fuse from Nail, so unfortunately the Earth is doomed as there is no way he and Kami could fuse.
Great vid, although If Frieza knew about the Dragon balls from the Vegeta's and Nappa's scouters and goes to Namek and then Earth (since I doubt any namekian would let him get his wish getting the planet destroyed.) I feel like it's over and Frieza wins. I don't believe the Nameless Namekian before Piccolo's training with King Kai would be enough to beat Frieza he may be at the same level Goku was when he fought Frieza before the Super Saiyan transformation.
Kamiccolo kills Vegeta, takes Gohan under his wing and trains him for the years to come. The Androids arrive, Gohan as already attained SSJ and after a long fight, Piccolo is beaten down. Gohan grows enraged and turns SSJ2. Kills the Androids and the world is saved.
He keeps up with his training given that Goku is gone and Piccolo died. Imperfect Cell shows up and is man-handled by Gohan, soon followed by Supreme Kai who warns of Babidi. Gohan undergoes training on his world, breaks the Z Sword, unlocks his potential and destroys Babidi and Dabura. End of Z.
This is how it played out in my head playing Sparking Zero last night lol
Super doesn't happen because it sucks.
WEWE HIT 1K
Damn you re cooking
It might be interesting to have Goku use his one day special return to train Gohan in the hyperbolic time chamber much later on. Getting Gohan to SSJ3. Not sure it works that way tho.
The Z fighters will use the Hyperbolic Time chamber earlier in the Saiyan saga to become like Napa and Goku’s level.