@@nikokiko47 having 22 years as a children's social worker, a masters in child development and practice, and teaching other post grad students (at 2 universities) in child development, I'd say yes.
@@nikokiko47Maté is a family doctor whose expertise is much more generalized than just in trauma and child development. Peterson is a clinical psychologist whose profession is largely about how different circumstances affect a child’s development
You think he is suggesting that. Sounds like a rationalisation of this crap. Learn to communicate and let the children express themselves and explain them how you or other might feel without specific frames, manipulation, ifs and ultimatum
A child having a tantrum is incapable of understanding. When the tantrum is over and the emotional fugue has faded, then you can talk to the child. There is no point in trying to reason with unreasonableness.
I was going to comment the same. For me its somewhere in between the two opinions. Let them have it and when they calmed down i am happy to listen, validate feelings and explain and correct and then hug and kiss.
It’s not about repression, it’s about healthy expression. Peterson wants the child to have their release, that rage moment, but to then come back to reality and realize and acknowledge that that wasn’t productive behavior.
Yeah the other guy isn't opposing the expression part, rather he's suggesting a deeper research of the issue causing the child to rage like that. Investing in the issue and the child's psyche... But no surprise, todays' parents as uneducated they are and with a dulled understanding of empathy, can't even fathom to understand such situations.
My ex husband and I created a spoiled brat. At the beginning of our separation we were both trying to buy her love. She started throwing fits. She behaved so badly I got to a point that I only took her into public if I absolutely had to. We were at the grocery and I had told her no and she threw herself to the ground and went full on tantrum. I simply walked away. She got right up and followed. If you don't give the tantrums attention then there is no reason for the child to throw one. She never threw a tantrum again.
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
No; they are crazy because they were put into daycare or left at grandma's house while their mom went yo work, giving them an insecure attachment style. People with BPD have an insecure attachment style.
If you watch the entire clip of Gabor, its far more insightful than this butchered clip. Peterson on the other hand literally advocates to dismiss a child's emotional needs even beyond tantrums. That is what Gabor meant by repression.
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
The child is angry because he’s not getting his way. He needs to be taught at a young age that this is unacceptable. You will get angry in life it how you respond to it that makes you who you are.
Man I don't understand these comments, you don't need to pick a side, this is not a battle. They are complimentary with eachother. Gabor Mate's suggesting a deeper research of the issue causing the child to rage like that. Why are you picking sides here. But I know, because it makes the choice is easy for you, escaping the burden of responsibility. "Because we know Mr. Peterson, so I don't need to think."
Peterson is saying to "decide to behave", using patience. Second guy has obviously never tried to reason with a 2 yr old. Peterson is using reason as an adult.
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
If you were to see Gabors entire clip, he goes on to explain in great detail which makes peterson look like a tool. Gabor isn't saying to reason with an angry child. He is taking about how one can help a child to avoid it in the first place.
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
As a mother with a son who had temper tantrums, you wait. You wait until he’s done. Then you question him about it, what it felt like, ask if he could, would he call out his emotion when he’s feeling it. This helps acknowledge the emotion being there but stops the emotion controlling the person. Certain children have highly reactive emotional bodies. I wonder, has Paterson had kids that have had temper tantrums? It’s so easy to form opinions from the outside looking in. His technique is a level of control, it never teaches the child on how to handle there emotions. It’s suppresses the emotion. “I’m just going to block the emotion and behave myself” = suppression. It’s not about kids growing up soft, it’s about kids learning to handle there emotions in a healthy way. Especially kids that have temper tantrums.
The very first time my son kicked off in a shop, aged 4, because I said 'NO' to a demand for something, I quietly walked him out and took him to a quiet spot. I told him he could never go shopping with me again if he handled the goods, or demanded things, instead of asking nicely. I did not humiliate him in public, like some mothers do, he behaved himself after that. I taught him to negotiate.
Ok people, let’s just assume that outside of these two, no one else here has 20+ years of clinical experience. I learned to behave like a good boy from a very early age because my father was an animal and instilled fear in me very early by emotionally or physically terrorising me and I suppressed my anger, but I also suppressed my joy, my playfulness, my curiosity to try, and with that learning to make mistakes and not loath myself for not being perfect. I grew up ridden with anxiety to fail, it pushed me to achieve but damaged me from a lot of angles. So the truth is somewhere in between, it’s not black and white, Peterson or Gabor. You may think you are using logic and get your way with your child but you for certain do not know how it will alter the child’s developing brain. Walk away from a child enough times, including not going over to your toddlers room when they are calling for you at night, or worse, while sleep training a baby, and you may wonder why in adulthood they feel wrecked when someone breaks up with them, or why they have a constant fear of abandonment that complicates their relationship. So tread carefully. Yes, today we complain about snowflakes, but look at how many of our parents and even more of the previous generations were alcoholics and drug addicts, or just simply had a fucked up family life. we ignore the connection there may exist between addiction and our upbringing/experience of trauma in early life. Many of the commenters here say that a 2 year old cannot reason. So maybe for little humans to experience a total meltdown for a chocolate can be comparable to a tragic event in an adult’s life, like seeing death or being in a car crash? Imagine, what if there is a way to handle a tantrum that doesn’t involve the sense of abandonment or rejection or even humiliation. 2 but especially 3 year olds understand a lot and can learn reasoning once they are calm and their body is not in fight or flight mode anymore. So don’t give them what they want other than understanding, hugs, love and support, and there and then explain what happened, why it happened, and that it is ok to feel frustrated but it is not ok to kick and bite etc. Just as they learn new words by hearing them a 100 times over, they will learn to accept your reasoning when they about to kick off for not getting their way.
I’ve read both. Mate is right about the importance of parents vs peers during teen years. But I’m a Stay at home dad of 3. Boys, girl, 10-14. When it comes to raising kids, if you want strong, resilient, adaptable, civilized, balanced kids … Peterson is absolutely the man to listen to.
Gabor is being taken out of context here. Jordan in his book talks about sending the child away into a seperate room to let them self soothe away from the adult. Gabor talks about being with and holding the child through their emotions so that they can move through them and be find regulation with the adult. Its not about spoiling the child, thats the parents emotional insecurities, but more so to show that child they're not alone and can deactivate their emotions. Im always going to side with Gabor. He is a gift from God
Jordan didn’t advocate leaving the child alone in the clip shared, and he didn’t advocate repression, he advocated allowing the child to finish expressing the anger or whatever it is and making their decision when they were ready to go one. We don’t get to just behave however we feel in every place, that’s a true life lesson and it’s for each person’s sake. The child is learning: you can have and express your feelings, and it needs to be in the appropriate place and that’s not for everyone. Our deepest feelings, (and a child throwing a tantrum is either expressing very deep and strong feeling or testing the parent to see what they are allowed to do) aren’t for everyone. Sometimes they need to be processed alone because no one else CAN help us through them and sometimes they need another ear. Hey think Gabor needs to get a better grasp of Jordan, what he advocates, and maybe think through his ideas. He seems to think that every emotion a child exhibits needs psycho analyzing and they don’t. Removing a child from a situation that exposes them, slowing them to finish and determine they are ready allows them some power without indulging them and possibly encouraging inappropriate ways of expressing feelings or of getting their way.
They are both right. Don’t punish it and don’t empathize. Also remember that tantrums are common in Autism. If your very young child has extreme tantrums for no apparent reason or very little reason, discuss it with your pediatrician. Neurodivergence is a real, verifiable problem and it needs different parenting skills.
I had a good technique for solving the temper tantrums. With six children I learned that when one was having a temper tantrum they would scream, cry and make a lot of noise. I told them, " You have the right to cry and the right to be angry, but every one else here has the right ti not have to listen to you. Go in the other room by yourself close the door and scream all you want . This worked every time. The child that was having an issue felt they were in need of a good scream but when they discovered that no body was listening they calmed right down. They were strangely satisfied just knowing they had my permission to have a fit.
I would agree with jordan, except i have seen my friend interact with her two year old, her attentiveness gets the child to stop as she gets him to work through the emotion instead. But then again there is some gray area, sometimes it doesnt work and she has to also employ part of JP's side, but afterwards do some emotional care.
Parents nowadays say there child who act out in public has behavior problems. Well, I had behavior problems as a child too. Whenever we went out, my father would tell me that if I didn't behave, I was going to have a problem.
As someone whos parent used other methods to make me stop my tantrum i think jordan is in the right for this one. You see, the child will learn not to be prick in public. To be an annoyance like many tiktok kids
It doesn't matter why they're angry, it's your job as a parent to teach them to control their anger, we as adults get angry all the time but we have to control ourselves otherwise get in trouble with the law, is yae Jordan Peterson's method is actually a better way
What a lot of you Google Scholars are forgetting is that behaviour is communication so if there is a temper tantrum the child is trying to tell you something isn’t right with them so letting them scream while you do nothing is in fact repression
Children are not like adults. Children feel anger because their older sibling is older than them. Children feel anger because they feel that just because Harry's mum lets him stay up, they should be allowed to stay up. Children can feel anger because their siblings share the cake is a millimetre bigger than theirs. In a childs mind, it's all about fairness. Even when things are reasonably fair, the child might not have that opinion. I child CANNOT understand their emotions, nor can they be reasoned with, because the reasons are sometimes completely unreasonable. Jordon was right to allow the child to have their tantrum, and once they are calm, then take them back because you're only going to confuse the child more by trying to teach them to communicate their feelings in that time
JP has it right... Just look at the spawn people have got now. Don't let children do what they want nor say what they want. Discipline is a thing Everyone needs in their life cos when they don't the awful spawn become the world's problem to deal with and the world will not be nice about dealing with them.
Maybe his book says something different. But he didnt say leave the child alone here. He said go somewhere boring and let him have his tantrum... him being there with the child or even without, like he got put in his room, hes going to find out why either during or after bc a kid upset screaming, even at 2, can say want pop, want toy, dont like that, n if your somewhat connected to your child being and a decent parent you'll know what "that" is and can communicate with him afterwards.
Spare the rod, SPOIL the child. We’re living in the colonizers realm of children who received no rod. This is what counseling and timeouts has created.
Colonizers? You misspelled that. It's spelled "Conquerors" and every human tribe since the beginning of time has had their version of conquering one way or another. But yes. Discipline is necessary. I just spanked you
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
Because the child's emotions are not being acknowledged. They just stop crying from exhaustion. They will then develop bitterness towards others as many in this comment section demonstrates. A child's visceral or emotional center of the brain is the part that works for children at those ages and higher. Their cerebral thinking logical one is not developed yet. So, scaring their emotional side by not addressing the causes will affect the child's personality as an adult. Children are difficult and many parents have no idea. They just generally react to kids. It is important to think about the result of our actions no matter how we feel. As parents we should guide our children to feel safe and secure. Mate is an empathetic person. He understands. Peterstein is a narcissist.
@@RadamesAida2OperaloversI agree with you, but technically Mate is a narcissist too; he said when his mom abandoned him, he became a workaholic doctor due to his need to prove his worthiness. On the Psychohistory discussion forum, someone wrote that narcissists were abandoned. I know another psychologist who said the same thing. Abandonment also includes emotional abandonment; not just physical abandonment.
@@moondog7694that doesn't make him a narcissist tho. Just an emotionally traumatized person. He's not, for example, working so much because he thinks hes thr only one who can do anything competently or because he believes himself to be like a religious prophet of some kind.
The child is an adult to be who doesn’t have the capability to regulate their emotions yet. The child is upset for a reason. Ask them what it is and help them through it
I agree with Jordan on this one. Kids do have problems but theres a way youre suppose to act in public not just for your safety but for others as well.
Dr. Mate is talking about another layer of the child's psychology. He is talking about understanding the cause. Jordan is talking about behavior correction. Two different topics.
A child doesn’t have the cognitive ability to do this on their own. You cannot place an adult’s “understanding” of how to release anger and “come back to reality” with a child’s. Gabor Mate talks abt this at length. A child looks towards its parents for emotional regulation. They won’t flat out say it, but it will come out as a tantrum. The ONLY thing the child interprets is that my anger will get me alienated therefore, it should not be expressed. Repression is a result of said alienation. Do this repeatedly and you’ve created a subconscious belief in that child on how anger should not be expressed.
Well, people in the comments, if you look at the scene unbiased you'll understand. Letting a child vent is like when an alarm goes off you take it and put somewhere not bothering and wait for it to end. This is not a core solution, but rather a temporary one. Either have empathy or have an understanding in psychology before judging.
I think Gabor is right. Whats wrong with asking the kid whats wrong, I mean, once they're quiet that is. Just help em thru it. Its important to pay attention to your child, support them, show them you care hes not saying give in to them. Just understand, support, and, of course correct them when they're wrong, but above all, take the time and get to know whats really going on. Isn't that what you would want if you were mad and throwing a fit? Or would you want to be ignored and pushed aside?
Frankly I wonder because my 47 yr old bf will throw a temper tantrum pretty much like a toddler throwing arms down and all in the middle of a store expecting that I will allow it and say forget it abandon the cart and just leave.
It's interesting to see to Masters in their field sharing their views. Also it depends on the child. If the child is that intense it needs structure however if you know the child's background, are tgey autistic or average kid, the option to nurture can work better in long run. They are both correct and it's always very circumstantial. But as a general rule if you're out in public you have to put them aside because as an adult you're also disturbing people in the community. Put the kid in a different environment and have them calm down and then talk to them if you can. You can not do nothing and let the kid think its acceptable. Both these men almost say the same thing in different ways, because Jordan doesn't say to discipline the kid inside the shop, he says to take the child to a new environment out of the store, let them release their feeling and then reason with them. This actually is showing nurture. It would be different if you just tell the kid off or yank him out of the store or slap them hard in front of people in a public area, also do it to a ASD kid wont guarantee a result, thought for wime ASD it can. Never outrule something until you've tried it.
Public doesn't give a F WHY the kid is throwing a tantrum. I explain this to kids all the time, your parents might put up with it, bit out in the world, there are people who would just as soon slap you and tell you to shut up. Take your kid elsewhere and teach them that.
What happens in an adult situation - when an adult is having a tantrum (does the slap come before or after the tantrum) How do adults and/or children respond to an adult tantrum
Jordan advocates that the kid should learn to behave because the parent is punishing the kid . But the kid wanted the parent to behave that’s why the kid had the tantrum in the first place
Too much compassion on Dr. Mate. I'm on Dr. Peterson on this one. Anger is natural but you have to divert this energy into productive anger. Danger of too much compassion in letting free reign of an angry child is violent men.
The child is angry about not getting what they want. The child needs to understand where money comes from and how hard it is to afford some things. JP is all about repressing anger because you haven't explained to the child why certain things can not be afforded. Imstead JP advocates that a child crying and angry will get tired and give up. But the child holds the memory of the incident WITHOUT understanding why, and so hate starts to develop in the child as a result. As the child grows up he will bottle up all the incidents and resent their parents. JP is a bad psycgologist. The worst advice anyone can give anyone.
it's funny how in the comment section, people who have no children are expert on raising kids. Peterson books are crap. Gabor has depth, and you can really learn something.
Working on regulating emotions does not equal repressing emotions. Gabor seems to be against most forms of discipline, and thats the worst thing you can do for a child.
@jdizzle6324 The Shepherd's Rod was used to direct their flock.. not beat the flock!?! Corporal Punishment may occasionally be necessary, but it shouldn't be anyone's first choice. One of the best pieces of advice I've ever heard Jordan give is *_don't let your children do things that make you dislike them!_*
Mybe it’s crazy logic like letting the kid think a temper tantrum will get them whatever they want that has us in the clown show wer in we’re everyone thinks there opinion and there feelings matter to everyone the world is cruel your not always gonna get your way and your not that important get it over it and move in 😂❤
Censorship, y’all! I’ve had 2 comments stricken from here, for citing the psychological definition of a term. 🤦🏼♂️ Yeah, talk to me about reasoning with a 2 year old when you can’t even have a real conversation with ‘adults’ 🤷🏼♂️
Here's a clue.... don't take a toddler into a store with lots of shiny distractions and potential toys and then not buy them the thing they really want.
Good luck with trying to *understand* the mind of two year old evey time she or he has a tantrum. Parent role is to show the kid what is what in the world, not the opposite.
Letting the child vent the anger is not repressing it, literally the exact opposite
Peterson is the last Dr I would go to for parenting advice. He flatly ignores all the literature on violent parenting.
Hes suggesting the child is allowed to vent in a space less stimulating than a store. He doesn't advocate repression at all. Total bs
You’re an expert now?
@@nikokiko47 having 22 years as a children's social worker, a masters in child development and practice, and teaching other post grad students (at 2 universities) in child development, I'd say yes.
@@clairhonnor6211 ok, you are qualified to have an opinion in these matters, so my apologies. BUT so is Gabor Maté.
@@nikokiko47Maté is a family doctor whose expertise is much more generalized than just in trauma and child development. Peterson is a clinical psychologist whose profession is largely about how different circumstances affect a child’s development
You think he is suggesting that. Sounds like a rationalisation of this crap.
Learn to communicate and let the children express themselves and explain them how you or other might feel without specific frames, manipulation, ifs and ultimatum
A child having a tantrum is incapable of understanding. When the tantrum is over and the emotional fugue has faded, then you can talk to the child.
There is no point in trying to reason with unreasonableness.
I was going to comment the same. For me its somewhere in between the two opinions. Let them have it and when they calmed down i am happy to listen, validate feelings and explain and correct and then hug and kiss.
It’s not about repression, it’s about healthy expression. Peterson wants the child to have their release, that rage moment, but to then come back to reality and realize and acknowledge that that wasn’t productive behavior.
Yeah the other guy isn't opposing the expression part, rather he's suggesting a deeper research of the issue causing the child to rage like that. Investing in the issue and the child's psyche... But no surprise, todays' parents as uneducated they are and with a dulled understanding of empathy, can't even fathom to understand such situations.
My ex husband and I created a spoiled brat. At the beginning of our separation we were both trying to buy her love. She started throwing fits. She behaved so badly I got to a point that I only took her into public if I absolutely had to. We were at the grocery and I had told her no and she threw herself to the ground and went full on tantrum. I simply walked away. She got right up and followed. If you don't give the tantrums attention then there is no reason for the child to throw one. She never threw a tantrum again.
He didn't say that at all. Rediculous.
Sorry, I’m going with Jordan Peterson
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
I’m with Peterson on this. Most of Gen. Z is crazy and whiny cuz their parents listened to the other guy about parenting.
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
No; they are crazy because they were put into daycare or left at grandma's house while their mom went yo work, giving them an insecure attachment style. People with BPD have an insecure attachment style.
Bullshit!
Patersons way is what most parents do. Hasn’t worked has it?
No. The kid wants his own way. Jordan is right.
If you watch the entire clip of Gabor, its far more insightful than this butchered clip. Peterson on the other hand literally advocates to dismiss a child's emotional needs even beyond tantrums. That is what Gabor meant by repression.
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
everyone wants their own way adults aren’t any different
Kids often get angry for no reason. It's called playing up
The child is angry because he’s not getting his way. He needs to be taught at a young age that this is unacceptable. You will get angry in life it how you respond to it that makes you who you are.
he is not repressing the anger, he is letting it be expressed in a teachable moment
A baby with a gun would shoot his mother without a thought when he's angry. Later children learn how to control their anger.
I'm with Peterson!
Man I don't understand these comments, you don't need to pick a side, this is not a battle. They are complimentary with eachother.
Gabor Mate's suggesting a deeper research of the issue causing the child to rage like that.
Why are you picking sides here. But I know, because it makes the choice is easy for you, escaping the burden of responsibility. "Because we know Mr. Peterson, so I don't need to think."
I’ll keep asking my kids when they’re little why they’re angry and they didn’t know why 😂
You can't reason with a two year-old in the middle of a tantrum. You use patience first until the tantrum is over then you understand and communicate.
Peterson is saying to "decide to behave", using patience. Second guy has obviously never tried to reason with a 2 yr old. Peterson is using reason as an adult.
No he's not
The point he’s making, he doesn’t make the child question the reaction.
The second man is the reason why kids are so soft these days.
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
wrong adults ignoring their kids and throwing them in front of a screen so they never get to actually experience emotional development is why
Try asking a 2 year old why they are angry. I'll keep listening to Jordan Peterson, he has more sense than this dude.
If you were to see Gabors entire clip, he goes on to explain in great detail which makes peterson look like a tool. Gabor isn't saying to reason with an angry child. He is taking about how one can help a child to avoid it in the first place.
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
Understanding why and practically dealing with a situation are two completely different things.
I agree that tantrums are not the child’s way of asking you to dissect their emotional frustrations.
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
As a mother with a son who had temper tantrums, you wait. You wait until he’s done. Then you question him about it, what it felt like, ask if he could, would he call out his emotion when he’s feeling it. This helps acknowledge the emotion being there but stops the emotion controlling the person.
Certain children have highly reactive emotional bodies.
I wonder, has Paterson had kids that have had temper tantrums? It’s so easy to form opinions from the outside looking in.
His technique is a level of control, it never teaches the child on how to handle there emotions. It’s suppresses the emotion.
“I’m just going to block the emotion and behave myself” = suppression.
It’s not about kids growing up soft, it’s about kids learning to handle there emotions in a healthy way. Especially kids that have temper tantrums.
Thank you!
Both are correct. Depends on the situation. One methods builds character and resilience. Second creates an emotional bond.
Age 1 to 5 is about discipline.
Jordan is right
Gabor Mate: spectation
JORDAN: REALITY.
The very first time my son kicked off in a shop, aged 4, because I said 'NO' to a demand for something, I quietly walked him out and took him to a quiet spot. I told him he could never go shopping with me again if he handled the goods, or demanded things, instead of asking nicely. I did not humiliate him in public, like some mothers do, he behaved himself after that. I taught him to negotiate.
As a mom of a toddler, there’s a difference between an upset child that needs comfort and a temper tantrum. JP’s parenting advice is correct…as usual.
Get them in a podcast together. Healthy discussion. I would watch.
Ok people, let’s just assume that outside of these two, no one else here has 20+ years of clinical experience. I learned to behave like a good boy from a very early age because my father was an animal and instilled fear in me very early by emotionally or physically terrorising me and I suppressed my anger, but I also suppressed my joy, my playfulness, my curiosity to try, and with that learning to make mistakes and not loath myself for not being perfect. I grew up ridden with anxiety to fail, it pushed me to achieve but damaged me from a lot of angles. So the truth is somewhere in between, it’s not black and white, Peterson or Gabor. You may think you are using logic and get your way with your child but you for certain do not know how it will alter the child’s developing brain. Walk away from a child enough times, including not going over to your toddlers room when they are calling for you at night, or worse, while sleep training a baby, and you may wonder why in adulthood they feel wrecked when someone breaks up with them, or why they have a constant fear of abandonment that complicates their relationship. So tread carefully. Yes, today we complain about snowflakes, but look at how many of our parents and even more of the previous generations were alcoholics and drug addicts, or just simply had a fucked up family life. we ignore the connection there may exist between addiction and our upbringing/experience of trauma in early life. Many of the commenters here say that a 2 year old cannot reason. So maybe for little humans to experience a total meltdown for a chocolate can be comparable to a tragic event in an adult’s life, like seeing death or being in a car crash? Imagine, what if there is a way to handle a tantrum that doesn’t involve the sense of abandonment or rejection or even humiliation. 2 but especially 3 year olds understand a lot and can learn reasoning once they are calm and their body is not in fight or flight mode anymore. So don’t give them what they want other than understanding, hugs, love and support, and there and then explain what happened, why it happened, and that it is ok to feel frustrated but it is not ok to kick and bite etc. Just as they learn new words by hearing them a 100 times over, they will learn to accept your reasoning when they about to kick off for not getting their way.
I’ve read both. Mate is right about the importance of parents vs peers during teen years. But I’m a Stay at home dad of 3. Boys, girl, 10-14. When it comes to raising kids, if you want strong, resilient, adaptable, civilized, balanced kids … Peterson is absolutely the man to listen to.
Gabor is being taken out of context here. Jordan in his book talks about sending the child away into a seperate room to let them self soothe away from the adult. Gabor talks about being with and holding the child through their emotions so that they can move through them and be find regulation with the adult. Its not about spoiling the child, thats the parents emotional insecurities, but more so to show that child they're not alone and can deactivate their emotions. Im always going to side with Gabor. He is a gift from God
Peterson has absolute common sense. Gabor is so wishy washy. Enough wishy washy. Children and adults need to learn how to behave.
Jordan didn’t advocate leaving the child alone in the clip shared, and he didn’t advocate repression, he advocated allowing the child to finish expressing the anger or whatever it is and making their decision when they were ready to go one. We don’t get to just behave however we feel in every place, that’s a true life lesson and it’s for each person’s sake. The child is learning: you can have and express your feelings, and it needs to be in the appropriate place and that’s not for everyone. Our deepest feelings, (and a child throwing a tantrum is either expressing very deep and strong feeling or testing the parent to see what they are allowed to do) aren’t for everyone. Sometimes they need to be processed alone because no one else CAN help us through them and sometimes they need another ear. Hey think Gabor needs to get a better grasp of Jordan, what he advocates, and maybe think through his ideas. He seems to think that every emotion a child exhibits needs psycho analyzing and they don’t. Removing a child from a situation that exposes them, slowing them to finish and determine they are ready allows them some power without indulging them and possibly encouraging inappropriate ways of expressing feelings or of getting their way.
They are both right. Don’t punish it and don’t empathize. Also remember that tantrums are common in Autism. If your very young child has extreme tantrums for no apparent reason or very little reason, discuss it with your pediatrician. Neurodivergence is a real, verifiable problem and it needs different parenting skills.
I had a good technique for solving the temper tantrums. With six children I learned that when one was having a temper tantrum they would scream, cry and make a lot of noise. I told them, " You have the right to cry and the right to be angry, but every one else here has the right ti not have to listen to you. Go in the other room by yourself close the door and scream all you want . This worked every time. The child that was having an issue felt they were in need of a good scream but when they discovered that no body was listening they calmed right down. They were strangely satisfied just knowing they had my permission to have a fit.
Go Jordon, Go Jordon. I don't see how the kids anger was repressed
I would agree with jordan, except i have seen my friend interact with her two year old, her attentiveness gets the child to stop as she gets him to work through the emotion instead. But then again there is some gray area, sometimes it doesnt work and she has to also employ part of JP's side, but afterwards do some emotional care.
Parents nowadays say there child who act out in public has behavior problems. Well, I had behavior problems as a child too. Whenever we went out, my father would tell me that if I didn't behave, I was going to have a problem.
As someone whos parent used other methods to make me stop my tantrum i think jordan is in the right for this one.
You see, the child will learn not to be prick in public. To be an annoyance like many tiktok kids
Jordan lives in the real world ❤
It doesn't matter why they're angry, it's your job as a parent to teach them to control their anger, we as adults get angry all the time but we have to control ourselves otherwise get in trouble with the law, is yae Jordan Peterson's method is actually a better way
I agree with Jordan. If a problem persist n u really think an issue is bigger than just minding them ok investigate.
Someone talked to the parents of Jordan and Gabor to inquire about their specific parenting techniques?
The mentality that the world needs to stop and kiss a toddlers ass is why every crybaby adult now needs a safe space to cry when they have a bad day.
How many Peterson fans even know Matés fine work?
What a lot of you Google Scholars are forgetting is that behaviour is communication so if there is a temper tantrum the child is trying to tell you something isn’t right with them so letting them scream while you do nothing is in fact repression
Children are not like adults. Children feel anger because their older sibling is older than them. Children feel anger because they feel that just because Harry's mum lets him stay up, they should be allowed to stay up. Children can feel anger because their siblings share the cake is a millimetre bigger than theirs. In a childs mind, it's all about fairness. Even when things are reasonably fair, the child might not have that opinion. I child CANNOT understand their emotions, nor can they be reasoned with, because the reasons are sometimes completely unreasonable. Jordon was right to allow the child to have their tantrum, and once they are calm, then take them back because you're only going to confuse the child more by trying to teach them to communicate their feelings in that time
JP has it right... Just look at the spawn people have got now.
Don't let children do what they want nor say what they want.
Discipline is a thing Everyone needs in their life cos when they don't the awful spawn become the world's problem to deal with and the world will not be nice about dealing with them.
what is name of background music?
Maybe his book says something different. But he didnt say leave the child alone here.
He said go somewhere boring and let him have his tantrum...
him being there with the child or even without, like he got put in his room, hes going to find out why either during or after
bc a kid upset screaming, even at 2, can say want pop, want toy, dont like that,
n if your somewhat connected to your child being and a decent parent you'll know what "that" is and can communicate with him afterwards.
Spare the rod, SPOIL the child. We’re living in the colonizers realm of children who received no rod. This is what counseling and timeouts has created.
Colonizers? You misspelled that.
It's spelled "Conquerors" and every human tribe since the beginning of time has had their version of conquering one way or another.
But yes.
Discipline is necessary.
I just spanked you
😂
The rod? As in abuse, yeah that works well lmao. Good job advocating for abuse weirdo.
😂
Both could be right. The kids need grow in a healthy environment, they need play outside and with others kids daily, they need good sleep, good food, much attention and love from their parents and boundaries, not screens, not junk food. If the kids have their daily needs then you know is a whim and you act like Jordan say.
Why is letting the kid scream it out a form of repressing anger?
Because the child's emotions are not being acknowledged. They just stop crying from exhaustion. They will then develop bitterness towards others as many in this comment section demonstrates. A child's visceral or emotional center of the brain is the part that works for children at those ages and higher. Their cerebral thinking logical one is not developed yet. So, scaring their emotional side by not addressing the causes will affect the child's personality as an adult. Children are difficult and many parents have no idea. They just generally react to kids. It is important to think about the result of our actions no matter how we feel. As parents we should guide our children to feel safe and secure. Mate is an empathetic person. He understands. Peterstein is a narcissist.
@@RadamesAida2OperaloversI agree with you, but technically Mate is a narcissist too; he said when his mom abandoned him, he became a workaholic doctor due to his need to prove his worthiness. On the Psychohistory discussion forum, someone wrote that narcissists were abandoned. I know another psychologist who said the same thing. Abandonment also includes emotional abandonment; not just physical abandonment.
@@moondog7694that doesn't make him a narcissist tho. Just an emotionally traumatized person. He's not, for example, working so much because he thinks hes thr only one who can do anything competently or because he believes himself to be like a religious prophet of some kind.
The child is an adult to be who doesn’t have the capability to regulate their emotions yet. The child is upset for a reason. Ask them what it is and help them through it
Jordan Peterson way is still a little soft for me I can include that into the smack or pinch
Done with this guy
Yes and no they both have points that meed to converge togther.
I agree with Jordan on this one. Kids do have problems but theres a way youre suppose to act in public not just for your safety but for others as well.
A child must be taught to controll their anger even in absence of comfort. Imagine grown people with the emotional controll of toddlers.
Dr. PETERSON IS CORRECT!
What is the 2nd guy talking about, because he's not referring to what was said.
Jordan is right.
Dr. Mate is talking about another layer of the child's psychology. He is talking about understanding the cause. Jordan is talking about behavior correction. Two different topics.
A child doesn’t have the cognitive ability to do this on their own. You cannot place an adult’s “understanding” of how to release anger and “come back to reality” with a child’s. Gabor Mate talks abt this at length. A child looks towards its parents for emotional regulation. They won’t flat out say it, but it will come out as a tantrum. The ONLY thing the child interprets is that my anger will get me alienated therefore, it should not be expressed. Repression is a result of said alienation. Do this repeatedly and you’ve created a subconscious belief in that child on how anger should not be expressed.
Well, people in the comments, if you look at the scene unbiased you'll understand.
Letting a child vent is like when an alarm goes off you take it and put somewhere not bothering and wait for it to end.
This is not a core solution, but rather a temporary one.
Either have empathy or have an understanding in psychology before judging.
I think Gabor is right. Whats wrong with
asking the kid whats wrong, I mean, once they're quiet that is. Just help em thru it. Its important to pay attention to your child, support them, show them you care
hes not saying give in to them. Just understand, support, and, of course
correct them when they're wrong, but above all, take the time and get to know whats really going on. Isn't that what you would want if you were mad and throwing
a fit? Or would you want to be ignored and pushed aside?
Frankly I wonder because my 47 yr old bf will throw a temper tantrum pretty much like a toddler throwing arms down and all in the middle of a store expecting that I will allow it and say forget it abandon the cart and just leave.
It's interesting to see to Masters in their field sharing their views.
Also it depends on the child. If the child is that intense it needs structure however if you know the child's background, are tgey autistic or average kid, the option to nurture can work better in long run.
They are both correct and it's always very circumstantial.
But as a general rule if you're out in public you have to put them aside because as an adult you're also disturbing people in the community. Put the kid in a different environment and have them calm down and then talk to them if you can. You can not do nothing and let the kid think its acceptable.
Both these men almost say the same thing in different ways, because Jordan doesn't say to discipline the kid inside the shop, he says to take the child to a new environment out of the store, let them release their feeling and then reason with them.
This actually is showing nurture. It would be different if you just tell the kid off or yank him out of the store or slap them hard in front of people in a public area, also do it to a ASD kid wont guarantee a result, thought for wime ASD it can. Never outrule something until you've tried it.
Public doesn't give a F WHY the kid is throwing a tantrum. I explain this to kids all the time, your parents might put up with it, bit out in the world, there are people who would just as soon slap you and tell you to shut up.
Take your kid elsewhere and teach them that.
What happens in an adult situation - when an adult is having a tantrum (does the slap come before or after the tantrum) How do adults and/or children respond to an adult tantrum
@@graceleslie1894
You mean reasonable adults, not all of them are reasonable.
Jordan advocates that the kid should learn to behave because the parent is punishing the kid . But the kid wanted the parent to behave that’s why the kid had the tantrum in the first place
Too much compassion on Dr. Mate. I'm on Dr. Peterson on this one. Anger is natural but you have to divert this energy into productive anger. Danger of too much compassion in letting free reign of an angry child is violent men.
Yeah, cause repressing anger is what you are supposed to do for your entire life, there is nothing wrong in teaching that as soon as possible
Jordan's way literally is using "human contact" fully.
The child is angry about not getting what they want. The child needs to understand where money comes from and how hard it is to afford some things. JP is all about repressing anger because you haven't explained to the child why certain things can not be afforded. Imstead JP advocates that a child crying and angry will get tired and give up. But the child holds the memory of the incident WITHOUT understanding why, and so hate starts to develop in the child as a result. As the child grows up he will bottle up all the incidents and resent their parents. JP is a bad psycgologist. The worst advice anyone can give anyone.
it's funny how in the comment section, people who have no children are expert on raising kids. Peterson books are crap. Gabor has depth, and you can really learn something.
Gabor, ever heard the expression, "You're acting like a 2-year old"? There must be a reason 😊
Working on regulating emotions does not equal repressing emotions. Gabor seems to be against most forms of discipline, and thats the worst thing you can do for a child.
I agree with Peterson.
Amen... give love, lots of love
Don't spare that rod!! It's biblical!
@jdizzle6324 The Shepherd's Rod was used to direct their flock.. not beat the flock!?! Corporal Punishment may occasionally be necessary, but it shouldn't be anyone's first choice.
One of the best pieces of advice I've ever heard Jordan give is *_don't let your children do things that make you dislike them!_*
♥️ Gabor
Mybe it’s crazy logic like letting the kid think a temper tantrum will get them whatever they want that has us in the clown show wer in we’re everyone thinks there opinion and there feelings matter to everyone the world is cruel your not always gonna get your way and your not that important get it over it and move in 😂❤
It s excellent advice
Maté is all about his anger. He had to create this narrative to excuse his own lack of self control.
Censorship, y’all! I’ve had 2 comments stricken from here, for citing the psychological definition of a term. 🤦🏼♂️
Yeah, talk to me about reasoning with a 2 year old when you can’t even have a real conversation with ‘adults’ 🤷🏼♂️
Wrong, he's advocating that letting your child Lose his temper won't get him anywhere in life
Dr. Peterson said to be with the child in this example. What you sayin?
Nope. Jordan is brilliant.
Here's a clue.... don't take a toddler into a store with lots of shiny distractions and potential toys and then not buy them the thing they really want.
Gabor is the truth.
2nd dude is smart and empathetic
How is letting the kid vent repression?
Compassion to all the lost souls who take Peterson’s deeply frustrated and anger motivated words as a guide. Bad direction.
Is respressed anger not the fuel which build civilisations across the globe?
if you really sit and think about it... Gabor is correct.
Kann nicht sinnerfassend hören
Good luck with trying to *understand* the mind of two year old evey time she or he has a tantrum. Parent role is to show the kid what is what in the world, not the opposite.
U know not
'promo sm'
DR. Mate is 100 on the money❤❤❤
Never trust a guy with a hyphen in his last name.
Too many parents reward the tantrum by buying the kid a toy or a piece of candy !😡 NO!!! STOP rewarding the tantrum!!!
This guy is a charlatan, its common sense parenting