Why "New Atheism" FAILED & What Is Replacing It |
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- Опубліковано 1 бер 2024
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In this video, Just Brierley (former host of the Unbelievable Podcast) shares the research and journalism he has been conducting with intellectuals like Bret Weinstein, Jordan Peterson & Ayaan Hirsi Ali in exploration of what he is calling a "Surprizing Rebirth Of Belief". I hope you enjoy!
Justin's Book: www.amazon.com/Surprising-Reb...
• Peter J Williams vs Ba...
MY DOCUMENTARY FILM: vimeo.com/ondemand/miningforgod
INSTAGRAM: / the_daily_dose_of_wisdom
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0:00: 🔑 Transition from debating evidence for God to addressing spiritual crisis post-new atheist movement.
4:50: ⚖️ The challenge of addressing the problem of evil and suffering in debates between atheists and Christians.
9:30: 💡 Challenges in claims made by Bart Ehrman regarding variations in Gospel manuscripts are discussed.
13:49: 💭 Impact of beliefs on openness to rational arguments for God's existence and goodness.
18:46: 📚 The significance of storytelling in shaping human perspectives on belief systems.
23:36: 💡 The significance of identity narratives in shaping beliefs and ideologies.
27:37: 🤔 Exploring the concept of mythology and archetype as potential representations of ultimate truth.
32:25: ⚖️ Debate on the validity of religion as a useful fiction or a real belief, with varying perspectives.
36:52: ⚖️ Shift from staunch atheism to considering utility of belief in God in Western liberal democracy.
41:34: 💡 Failure to deepen understanding of Christianity in youth leads to disillusionment later in life.
46:15: 💡 Impact of parental example on shaping beliefs and desire for truth in Christianity.
Thank you to Keeps for sponsoring this video! Head to keeps.com/dailydoseofwisdom to get a special offer.
The amount of dislikes - especially looking at the quality you again delivered - doesn't seem natural. Are they trying to cancel you that way? I don't see any interaction in the comments. Somebody clearly is triggered.
Atheism leads to joy and contentment.
Hello you wanted to talk to me but when I tried to respond to you your message it disappeared and I'm not sure how to contact you now.
@@richardjackson6307 that's just some kind of scam that targets these channels. Don't click on it. Probably some real bad news
@@richardjackson6307 It’s a scammer
Objection..."There are too many variations, it can't be trusted."
Now, what if they were all identical with no variation?
Objection...."They're all the same, they just copied each other - it can't be trusted."
Objection: people don't die and come back to life 3 days later.
@@mesplin3Hence what makes it a miracle that only God could do.
@@StruttinStrayCat Then the universe doesn't adhere to natural laws.
@@mesplin3There is no such claim.
It's a little more complicated than that.
Athiesm leads to bitterness and nihilism. Jesus is the light of the world. Amen 🔥😇🙏
I'm an atheist and Im not bitter or a nihilist. I love my life. I meditate. I find the universe absolutely beautiful and mystical.
Well said
That's a very glib statement; I'm a Dawkins-level atheist and I'm neither bitter nor nihilistic.
Absolutely! David Wood posted on how atheists mocked and laughed at him when one of his children died.
Pure nonsense.Atheism just leads to honesty.All you people who believe that some Jew resurrected 2000years ago are simply being dishonest.We all know that belief is nonsense.
I use to be in the non-prophet organization of atheism.
Then I found Jesus and was like “No way”. And then God was like “Yahweh"
Christian dad joke of the year 😂
Not bad not bad lol
booooo
Bhahahaha. Love it
😄that made me laugh. Nice one 😎👍
What's amazing is that the atheists claim science as their foundation for everything, but time is not their ally. The more we learn and more advancements are made in science the more complex and weird the Universe gets. We're not getting closer to confirming the secular worldview. The more things that are uncovered, the more it points to a Created Universe.
Science is indeed incredible, but there will, by definition, always be limits.
Time is not their ally? It took nearly two millennia to shake off the influence of Aristotle enough to start properly using the scientific method; then just a few hundred years to get from Copernican astronomy to the cosmic microwave background. The universe seems complex because it is vast, but that vastness is made from simple ingredients (in incomprehensibly large quantities).
I don't see how science has anything to do with God. Science deals with the natural world. As I understand it, God transcends the natural world. So I don't see how science is related to God.
Science requires uniformity in nature and induction to even be done, God set those parameters in place. @@mesplin3
@@mesplin3since your photo is a hypercube, I would assume that you would have zero problems seeing how a lower dimension of reality could point to a higher and transcendent one that contains it.
Appreciate your channel man.
Thanks brother!
I can come here and debunk common misconceptions about atheism.
@@kos-mos1127 Until you get banned.....
@@Daily_Dose_Of_Wisdom What exact reason is there that my comments disappear since I asked you why you give known liars a plattform?
@@derhafi For what correcting the Christian narrative on atheism.
Something false cannot be valuable unless it is known to be false (fictional) but with useful or meaningful lessons. Truth has to be sought and embraced.
Stop right there, Actually what i read all from what You create the Comment is Troll and Meme also Not Smart read History and Bible, Let me gave you with a Based Historical of Christianity
Why too many people Convert and beliving Christianity, Because Teaching of Jesus in Gospel nothing do Teach Evil for Peoples This Story of Jesus is Great Humanity and touch of Love , Jesus a Real Historical People was actually Success Teacher of Humanity and Freedom from Atheist Satan try Separate
Evolution is incompitable with Science, Why??, Because Radiometric are tool rubbish can edited and detect before convert 1 Carbon = 1 per year rated as Age of Object. this is plan Atheism Satanist try separate Human and God a Spirt the Almighty Creator and before Atheist trying to Say "there is no God", So you an Evolutionists called Evolution is"Science", this is plan was Fataliy Wrong ! because Atheist use Evolution as Argument to Attacking personal All Religions, This is not Amazing and not Wise.
Religion is Guide to God the Spirit and Almighty Creator a Reality Miracle can't analisted by Human a Mere Mortal limited Knowledge are Don't know anything about incident what God Created, the Million Billion Evolution are Delusion Atheist i did say Evolutionist are Human a Mere Mortal limited Knowledge !, COPE HARDER.
it's Atheist brain are Error caused cover with Darkness and Heretic a Satanist try Separate Human and God.
42 Country the State are Separate away from Communist (State Atheism) than The Church, COPE HARDER cry Harder, Atheisn Polygram a Satanist, Cry it Evo Kid !
TRUMP 2024 USA President has Win 20 State way more than Biden. No Gay, No Abortion a Sinner of Sodom and Gomorah was real , Curse you LGBTQ+ you are disgusting sinner equal Atheism Satanist the Enemy of God.
Atheist Evolution lies with drama in Record video after Bone Dinosaurs created from Art by Expert Artist with Material Statue, Dinosaurs is Fiction it's Delusion of Evolutionist was Busted Hoax.
UFO is just a Drone with Lamp, Evolutionist are Delusion, Big Bang are too far away from Earth it's Delusion from Imagination Limit Size Brain of Atheist psychopath also got idea and Atheist Work feel crazy for trying Separate Human and God, this is work of Satan.
All these rubbish trash argument Evo Kid was already broken and debunked by Christians.
COPE HARDER, Atheists ! , you are obvious Busted Fan BOY Evo Kiddos, L+Bozo+Ratio+Cringe
Excellent conversation. Thank you!
Such a great interview! Loved seeing Justin in this context on your channel.
Atheism has, in many personal cases for me, become a very militant form of anti-theism. In these cases, depression and monotony of life became their new centerpieces in life.
Note: no, this doesn’t prove God. No, this doesn’t prove Jesus. No, this doesn’t prove the Bible. No, this doesn’t mean all atheists are directionless or incapable. No, this doesn’t extend to every single example in the world.
The BIBLE and JESUS CHRIST are WORTHLESS and USELESS to ATHEISTS, CHRISTIANS, and all RELIGIONS
Atheists KNOW
that they not only rejected Jesus Christ and his BIBLICAL authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as worthless and useless
but even fill the world with their claim that the BIBLE is not the "Word of God" and source of Truths but just a worthless book of lies, myths, fictions, fantasies, and fairy tales
and
Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, and fanatics of all kinds of Religions KNOW
that like all Atheists, they not only rejected too Jesus Christ and his BIBLICAL authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" as worthless and useless
but even fill the world with their own UNBIBLICAL teachings and doctrines about "Trinity", "heaven and hellfire", "Armageddon", "rapture", and "reincarnation"
GOD KNOWS that ATHEISM and RELIGIONS are WORTHLESS and USELESS
GOD KNOWS
that his favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on Earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4
is
definitely NOT for Atheists and believers of the lies and Unbiblical teachings of the enemies of his Christ about "Trinity", "heaven and hellfire", "Armageddon", "rapture", and "reincarnation"
but
ONLY for lowly, ordinary, and kind persons on earth who willingly submit to the authority of his Christ and believe his teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead"
as written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26
Jesus Christ KNOWS
that all human beings will just return to dusts after their deaths just like the animals
as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6
but
he knows too that his teaching about the "RESURRECTION of the DEAD"
is the guarantee that his God and Father will not let all loving, kind, and respectful persons on earth who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, King David, his Followers and disciples, and many others to remain as worthless dusts forever,
instead,
in his Father's right and proper time,
they will all be RESURRECTED back to life so they can happily, abundantly, and peacefully live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects and citizens of the "KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy his and his God and Father's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity
under his loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection as his God and Father's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
That's what happens when you define yourself in opposition to; or rejection of something. The opposite of religion is an opposing religion.
Conflict is inevitable.
There’s nothing militant about pointing out the fact that theists haven’t met their burden of proof.
How you even apply the word militant here is baffling. Truly a misuse of the word.
@@DM-dk7js Where did I say that pointing out the fact that theists haven’t met their burden of proof = militant?
@@DM-dk7jsI swear man, you are like the strawman king. You keep on doing this and taking people’s comments too far and “finding” things that were never said or claimed. Sure you can INFER but it doesn’t change the fact that THAT (the inference) isn’t necessarily the case, but you definitely state it as such
I read Prof Squawkins 'The Selfish Gene' and found it so silly that I have never taken them seriously. Before going to university I had read the previously famous atheist's atheist Anthony Flew book on 'Thinking', and found it very shallow and slight, even compared to less famous but still well-read books like Thouless, 'Straight and Crooked Thinking'. The so-called new atheists confirmed me in my love of CS Lewis, GK Chesterton, and others. (And of course Anthony Flew himself read some Intelligent Design books and converted to theism on that basis.)
I don't expect you to actually do this as you theists usually just run away at this point but, I'll try anyway.
Quote the silliest thing you found in the 'Selfish Gene'.
it is idiocy throughout, to pick a single point would be to mischaracterise the rest of the book as less puerile and ignorant @@T_J_
All of it to all of it is silly lol
@@darthbane2669 Give an example then, seeing as there's also much to choose from. My guess is you can't, because you're talking bollocks.
@@T_J_ I think he did not read it 😂
Not getting notifications now for some reason. We’re over the target and they are taking note! Praise Yah!
Very interesting. Definitely going to check out his book and podcast. Thanks
The notion that God is evil and non-existent to the very same people has always been mind boggling to me.
LOL, what is so difficult about that?
@@wet-readIt's self-contradictory nonsense.
The notion that that first Dark Lord of the Sith, Ajunta Pall is evil and non-existent to the very same people has always been mind boggling to me. Like clearly they believe in Star Wars.
@@justin10292000
How does one ever discuss the characters in a fictional story, then? Ever hear of fictionalism?
Clearly you didn't think this through. @@justin10292000
I used to watch all the videos of Justin or unbelievable. He was an excellent host. Thanks for having him on.
The channel is not the same with out him
This was a really nice discussion, a very nice summary of some major ideas of the past few years. Thank you.
I think New Atheism came at a time of cultural decline, shallow spirituality in the west, and the confusion of postmodernism, which was the main reason it convinced people. So many of the fundamentals of human society were unraveling at that time in the West (family, marriage, church, etc). The greatest issue being the collapse of the family, where all spiritual development was put onto the church which was also struggling. New Atheism amplified and accelerated that unraveling.
It was a combo of thinks mainly 911 and taking advantage of that to push there world view.
That and nine eleven plus the rise of youtube happened which gave them a larger audience then they other wise would have gotten
Nope, that period so damaged theism, atheists now know science will more increasingly prove there is no need for a god. The truth is "educated" theists are more and more being forced to admit the bible is wrong in the light of scientific discovery. That won't stop and theism will continue to decline without need for comment..
Justin! What an absolute ledge.
Such a legend I agree
RE: suffering
That we can’t believe how broken or evil we can freely be, doesn’t require a defense from or of God.
That is not to say pain isn’t painful.
Thanks for the great vid!
Thank you for this Podcast. I appreciate you talking about our, "story, path, or faith journey". I believe it was Michael Phillips in one of his historical fiction novels who said, everyone has their own journey to Truth. This means we are all at different places in our Journey. Thankfully God is right there revealing Himself to all of us. Every one of us is unique, even siblings who have grown up in the same household, so this makes perfect sense to me.
🔥Irrefutable evidence for the existence of God. Love is the evidence. Existence is an expression of Love. Love as defined in standard English, is flexible enough to accurately describe whatever force created and sustains us. All praise and glory be to the King of kings. Amen 🔥🙏😇
Err no, this is not an argument for god. Not even remotely
😆
So far, no logical responses
@@ryngrd1 Maybe you need to say something logical first?
@@T_J_ cope
I used to be one of these atheists who revered guys like Hitchens and Harris. But at some point, I started listening to the other side rather than what they had to say about the other side.
true. i sometimes listen to atheists and i get so disappointed because i was hoping for intellectual stimulation but they're so ignorant of the bible and even those who arent twist everything God did or said.
I listened to apologetic and was disappointed with their answers because I found them wholly lacking.
That's your prerogative. But the point stands, it is better to get the answers from the adherents than the outgroup that needs to strawman.
@@kos-mos1127 ^
@@kos-mos1127 This is because you are a zealot atheist kool-aid drinking level cult member who feels it is your duty to street-preach your religion where it isn't wanted or needed. Of course you found them "wholly lacking". Cult members don't understand things outside of their cult religious dogma. Smooth brain.
Great conversation! Thanks both. One question that I keep asking is, are there any 'other' fictions/falsehoods that benefit society?
That capitalism is a fair way of distributing wealth
On the problem of suffering and evil, that question needs to be juxtaposed with this question; why life and beauty? Even as a small child, looking at a picture of Jesus on the Cross with the very little bit of information I got from my Catholic grandmother that Jesus was the Son of God, in my very abused little girl mind, I saw beauty suffering. That was enough for me.
That raises the interesting question, "What if Jesus had looked like the Elephant Man?"
Atheists have no objective moral claims anyways so a scientific materialist claiming something is evil is a moot point.
You can go on and on.
We base our faith in how he lives what he taught and his reliability more than the little he was physically described as.
Even so I doubt God would choose a form that would draw attention he purposely chose an average ordinary appearance.
@@marksnow7569I don't understand your point. Jesus looked like an average Jewish man of that era.
@@gracefulannie-grcflannie-Yes, apparently he did, but as a communicator through personal appearances, would he have been as influential if he had looked breathtakingly ugly? Or even moderately ugly?
The best question to ask any atheist/agnostic was delivered by Justin Brierley to Peter Atkins. Something like: "What evidence would change your mind?" He couldn't actually answer it, instead saying he'd probably think he was going insane. He could not actually provide a description of any event that would change his mind. Unbelievable! :D
Pretty easy answer: God would know what would change his mind. The question is why he doesn't do it. Answer: the christian god is not real.
It's hard to answer that question because you're asking a thinking human to decide which evidence would convince him to believe all the contradictions and fallacies in the Bible. Evidence of a loving god wouldn't square up with the wrathful, genocidal god in the OT. Evidence for a wrathful, genocidal god wouldn't square up with the loving, forgiving god in the NT.
When you start by asking "what evidence would convince you...?", you start with the premise that we're going to use a logical framework. Inside a logical framework, there is no way reconcile the claims of the Bible.
The short answer is: God's omniscient, so he should already know what evidence would convince me, and he's apparently decided not to give it. The next question is "How do I force God to present evidence that he seems unwilling to give me?"
@@Alien1375 this is a dodge.... not a very clever dodge either.
@@saintmalaclypse3217 this is a dodge... a dodge wrapped in superficial sophistry at that.... Please try again, you can do better than this - can't you?
@@cgo225 Hey, you christians are the ones claiming God knows us better than we know ourselves.
Justin Brierley!!! 🔥🔥🔥
Great conversation on this topic Brandon. My heart goes out to all those "Thoughtful" atheists and agnostics, some who are battling depression and the conundrum of satisfactory answers to perplexing questions. Just Brierley points out the most common one "Why does God allow evil" as a big stumbling stone. Sadly an unsatisfactory answers is always given due to an overall incorrect biblical narrative.(working on it for future post)
John MacArthur (Grace to You) has 2 video sermons that answer this in a simple, easy to understand & very memorable way to put to good use in explaining to others . . . worth looking up to watch.
@@sydney.g.sloangammagee8181Interesting that you would mention John MacArthur in the same conversation regarding the problem of evil argument. Grace Community Church in Southern California, John MacArthur’s church, disciplined and publicly shamed a member for leaving her husband, who taught music and Bible studies to children at the church, after she had reported to church elders, that she and her children had been abused, physically, sexually and emotionally, by him. John MacArthur stood before his congregation and publicly shamed her, encouraged the congregation to pray for her and then to “treat her as an unbeliever.”
I apologize if I haven’t gotten the facts complete and absolutely correct here, but what is factual is that the husband in this case is currently serving, since his 2005 conviction, a 21 years to life-sentence in a California prison for aggravated child molestation, corporal injury to a child, and child abuse.
John MacArthur and Grace Community Church have yet to apologize to the church member who first reported the abuse, even after 22 years. I pretty much have no use for anything that John MacArthur has to say about God allowing evil, especially when he looks the way when it happens within his own congregation. But worse than that, protects the perpetrator of said evil.
I’m not doing links to this information. There are plenty of articles that point out Grace Community Church’s failure to report and the subsequent covering up of sexual abuse within the congregation. For full disclosure, I’m not a Christian. But if you’re reading this and you are a Christian, you should reject anything that spews from John MacArthur’s mouth, especially if it involves defending God for allowing evil.
The fact you really only see them attacking Christianity while leaving alone other religions tells you it's not about truth-seeking. It's just about burning hatred for a certain demographic
Jesus Christ KNOWS
that the Creator is the True and Sovereign God who authorized and sent him from heaven to earth thousands of years ago to preach and teach the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" to imperfect, suffering, and dying human beings.
Jesus Christ KNOWS
that all Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, SDAs, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Born Again Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus,
and all believers of the LIES and Unbiblical teachings and doctrines of his enemies about "Armageddon", "Trinity", "heaven and hellfire", "rapture", and "reincarnation"
will
definitely bring themselves nothing but their own dishonor, disgrace, downfall and ETERNAL DEATHS, worthless and useless dusts on earth forever
while
all persons on earth who respect and honor the Creator's Sovereignty
and all believers of his Biblical authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead"
as written in Matthew 28: 18, Luke 4: 43, and John 11: 25, 26
will
definitely bring themselves honor and the loving, kind, and merciful Creator's favor and reward of ETERNAL LIFE and existence on earth without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and death
as written in Revelation 21: 3, 4
Jesus Christ KNOWS
that all human beings will just return to dusts after their deaths just like the animals
as written in Ecclesiastes 3: 19, 20 ; 9: 5, 6
but
he knows too that his teaching about the "RESURRECTION of the DEAD"
is
the Creator's guarantee that all loving, kind, and respectful persons on earth who died recently and thousands of years ago like Abel, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Job, King David, his Followers and disciples, and many others will be RESURRECTED back to life in the right and proper time
so they can happily, abundantly, and peacefully live and exist on earth forever as submissive and obedient subjects of the "KINGDOM of GOD"
and fully enjoy his and the Creator's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, compassions, favors, and blessings for eternity
under his loving and kind rulership, guidance, and protection as the Creator's Chosen King and Ruler of the heavens and the earth as written in Revelation 11: 15.
I agree. And what is fascinating is that only the name “Jesus Christ” is used as a cuss word. It’s all over movies. Not one leader or god of any other religion is used as a cuss word. Makes one wonder.🧐
@@tammymullins1151 Good point. I think that is a subtle hint that His name implicitly has power to it. A nonbeliever would be flummoxed to explain why, of all words, they use that one. They may feel a great weight attached to the expression, but never examine why!
I think it has more to do with Enlightenment era philosophy being the major foundation to current methods of thought and culture
@@r.connor9280 That could be true, too. What enlightenment principle do you think lead to mocking Christians while protecting other religions?
Yesterday I watched a female scientist that recently received salvation from the consequences of her life because of the advances in astrophysics. The more information that was revealed through science, the more of a need for a Creator was provided.
Astrophysics discover things that should not exist based on natural law all the time. The female scientists could not explain the findings based on current theories and invoked God to explain the discrepancies.
How did she know it was evidence for the Christian god?
@@donjohnson9813 I'm a bit of a grammar purist so I always capitalize the Creator God when listing His name. Our daughter is the same way as many people do who write under the banner of being grammar Nazis. This woman had been working in her field of astronomy for decades and was familiar with the various accounts of creation from numerous religions. The biblical account fit her research perfectly as she realized that an intelligent mind created everything. She was further inspired by the fact that what is called Christianity isn't a religion but instead a relationship with God the Father through the sacrifice of God the Son. Don't misunderstand me, there is a religion that Identifies as Christianity of which some Christians and those who believe that they are Christians practice. Religion is a set of rituals, practices, and certain rules that a person follows to make themselves righteous enough, (good enough) to be accepted by God. God on the other hand only wants a personal relationship with His creation and comes to us a friend, confidant, healer, and many more things than that. A young woman who was dying from the complications of MS heard God's voice telling her to get up and walk was today's episode on The-Table channel. The title of the episode is, "This lady debunks all the atheist arguments". On another note, it is only God's Son Jesus that is appearing to people all over the world so that those who have never heard of His name have the opportunity to exchange their broken lives for His perfect life and start their own relationship with God the Father. God Himself tells us that other gods exist and warned us not to have communion with them in Exodus 20:3-5. In history mankind viewed all creatures that had power that mere mortals don't as gods. Aleister Crowley said, "Today we call them Angels and Demons, who knows what we'll call them tomorrow." Today we usually identify these creatures as aliens since we're supposedly too advanced to identify these creatures as gods. Research topped off with verification of the research provides answers to our questions.
Good Q. There are a few questions you can ask yourself to go further down this road. How can I trust my own brain to learn about the world? (we should just assume that we can or there is no point in even trying with these types of discussions). Has the creator revealed himself? If he has, which religion is backed by history, lacks fallacy when compared to reality, is textually reliable, makes sense of the world we live in (the fact that there seems to be real things like morality, love, truth, purpose, etc. which all are just make believe if there is not God)., etc. Personally, if you're looking at a creator God who is a moral law giver, you are left with the religions of the book (judaism leads to christ and islam is a joke and doesn't pass any of the tests I laid out above). Hope that helps.@@donjohnson9813
@@donjohnson9813it's very simple really. The God of the Bible is the only true God because He is outside of energy, matter, space and time and created everything that exists. All other gods are man-made. Now you know. If you're one of those who only beleive in science, science does nothing. People do science and they can and do tell lies. The scientific method came from the Bible. The latest spacetime theorems confirm that any universe like ours must have a causal agent outside of energy matter space and time. The Bible stated that thousands of years ago. That might be news to you.
Atheism is not believing the story.
@@TeI.egr.am-RealDailyDose On what topic?
The channel host will never like this comment because it makes too much sense
It's not believing the evidence. New atheism is not even listening to the evidence.
Atheism is not having the information to believe. Religious Faith is believing with no truth.
@@Josh_e_Perry Rubbish. Greek 'pistis' in the NT, translated 'faith', literally always and only means trusting (in) someone you have good reasons to trust (in this case, God in Christ). What atheists want to mean by 'faith' alters that not one bit.
There was never a new atheism movement and it never failed. All the people that were deemed as "new atheists" (Hitchens, Dawkins, Sam Harris) never called themselves that. Most of the are still around. Literally nothing has changed.
I really appreciate this line of thought where we question whether it's a "useful fiction" or actually true, as I'm quite at that fork within myself.
I currently occupy a 'I can't say it is literally true, but I can say it is literarily true' view.
However, even as I write that I feel it is a cop-out as I do distinguish the truth of God and the truth of the Bible, at least intellectually speaking.
It's my present struggle with faith, as I'm surprisingly more convinced in my mind than I am in my heart as to God in fact having been made flesh in Jesus Christ.
The truth lives in the words and life of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. Amen 🙏😇
If you study the history of religion and the history of Christianity you will eventually discover it is a delusion. Many totally dedicated religious people enter seminary Christians to find the man behind the curtain.
“New atheism” is not a name atheists ever called themselves, it has always been a label used to put down/insult.
The new atheism itself is actually characterized by the very thing you’re accusing the label of being. Which is a “put down/insult” lower level debate tactics style, if you can even call much of the exchanges actual debate… Although I’ll admit, there are respectful atheists that don’t fit the label? But they are the exception.
@garymanz3403 You say "lower level debate tactics style" but I'm not sure what you mean by this, and what sort of tactics these "new atheists" used. Perhaps saying that you have to just believe then evidence will follow, or maybe telling your opponent they actually already agree with you but are lying or suppress the truth in their wickedness. New atheism is just a term theists call people they don't like, that is it, it is meaningless. It is nothing more than an attempt at mudslinging it is not a movement, so the idea of "new atheism failing" is nonsensical.
@@evansplittorff6942 Well there certainly weren’t any new arguments coming out of the atheist camp! And seeing that terms do correspond to something objective. “The New Atheism”is by default an unflattering term pointing to a collective attitude that is both pompous & hostile in nature. And due to its nihilistic undercurrent, which provides its adherent zero accountability for the behavior; they have the perceived utility to put the blame on their opponent for their faith in God… Although I’ve lost count of just how many atheists I have personally encountered exhibiting this behavior. I’m thankful for the few who have maintained the maturity to be respectful regardless of what their opponent believes.
At the beginning & end of the day, we’re all just finite self aware creatures seeking the truth. THAT I submit together with good will, is the correct orientation which needs to be at forefront of every debate.
@@garymanz3403 If you define new atheism as pompous and hostile, it isn’t a term for a movement or set of beliefs. It is an insult and it is used for nothing but as hominem attacks.
@@evansplittorff6942 Again, it’s not a flattering term and no doubt weaponized I’ll admit! But it IS a descriptive term which corresponds to a collective behavior generally present in today’s atheists! If atheists had never adopted this attitude to begin with, the term would not exist.
As for the term itself? It’s benign, and pales in comparison to the very competitive attacks on theists coming from atheists on social media!
Again, again! Today’s atheists get out of jail free card for bad behavior and poor sportsmanship is the nihilistic worldview that perceptually exonerates them from any moral accountability for their abject disrespect to their fellow man who remains in disagreement. And when the offenders of such behavior are called out on it. They either, paradoxically claim victimhood or blame their opponent for having a worldview opposed to their own. And so in this compromised state of maturity, they feel that they’re in the right to stoop as low as necessary with the insults to make their vacuous point.
None of this of course would be possible if nihilism were not intrinsically tied to being atheist, which renders the atheist incapable of examining their own conscience in the moment and in the opposing arguments by extension.
For me, its simple fundamental logic: All things that exist have a cause or a source if you will. Nothing exists that does not have a cause. This is easy to understand with material things, but why wouldn't we apply the same basic logic to spiritual or philosophical elements like love, justice, mind and meaning? There is no legit argument for why there should not be a cause for all these. What could the cause or source of love be? This question simply cannot be answered sufficiently by materialism or scientism. It's a spiritual matter and as Paul noted, the spiritual can only be discerned through the Spirit. The natural (material minded) man deems the spiritual as foolishness, but the spiritual man comprehends things the natural man cannot imagine..If you're unsure, seek God through humility and action to test this for yourself.
_"Nothing exists that does not have a cause."_
Therefore anything which does not have a cause does not exist.
The simple fundamental logic is the Cosmos has no beginning and no end.
@@kos-mos1127 Utter BS. Infinity cannot be added onto, but tomorrow we will add another day to our history. The universe had a beginning, and it will have an end. Just because you are a kool-aid drinking cult member of your atheist religion doesn't actually mean that your religious dogma is true.
Great interview subject
Such a wonderful conversation! I really like Justin's point that it's good for Christians to have some of their assumptions challenged because we do often inherit a naïve or simplistic view of Scripture. Having our assumptions questioned can help us deepen our understanding and cultivate a more robust faith.
Thanks Samuel!
"If there is a God, he wouldn't allow evil to happen"... This assumes that this life is all there is, that there is no heaven or hell. But if there is a heaven to gain and a hell to shun, then the evil that happens in this life will be compensated by the heaven afterwards. Jesus suffered even though he was perfectly innocent, but he rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. This was the worst evil that could ever possibly happen, but it was followed by the best possible good that can ever happen.
There is no reason to believe there will be a reward after death because no one has died and came back to life to tell us what happened. There is no evidence of the resurrection of Jesus so that is a false promises.
@TeI.egr.am-RealDailyDose
I don't have a Telgram account. I don't know how to send a private message.
@@kos-mos1127
Absence of evidence in not evidence of absence. Just because we have not seen it yet does not mean that it does not exist.
There are millions of people who have dies for a few minutes and then are revived and report observations of an afterlife. The Shroud of Turin is at least some evidence that a crucified man was dead and then came back to life. For if he were still dead when they took shroud off him, it would have stuck to his body and they would have had to rip it off of his skin. There is no evidence for that.
@@kos-mos1127 500 people saw Jesus after his death. You'd have to call everyone in the Bible a liar. Alternative explanations for the evidence mostly involve a conspiracy, such as the disciples stealing the body. Indeed, that was the first theory at the time, deliberately circulated by the Jewish authorities. It implies that the disciples would have colluded in a lie.
Some died for their belief in the resurrection. While some people do die for false beliefs, nobody dies for something he knows to be false, which would be the case for the disciples if they had invented the story. Moreover, surely someone would have broken ranks and squealed if they had conspired to spread a lie.
Nonsense
It's called having a hardened heart!
Nope, it's a logical mind.
@@KuanGung
A logical mind recognizes that nothing ever comes from nothing and intelligence in the design of everything in nature proves it constantly.
Evolution is the fairytale, not creation....
@@richardjackson6307
A "logical" mind profoundly ignorant of scientific discovery living in the distant past maybe but a mind knowing the reality of current discovery, no, that mind understands how something from nothing can occur. If you weren't so ignorant you would know the universe is made up of equal parts of +ve and -ve energy i.e. nothing.
There is no design and no intelligence attached to this universe (except in the minds of the ignorant). No one would design the mess we have be that throughout the universe or throughout life. If a god created this universe, it's clear, it's not intelligent, I could think up a better universe and life.
Anyone in 2024 who says "evolution is a fairy tale" is nothing more than an ignorant fool.
That evolution occurs is fact was established decades ago and only the most deluded branch of theism still refuses to accept evolution. William Lane Craig double PhD and recognised as Christianity's greatest debater was forced to accept evolution as fact over a decade ago and now argues "a god driven evolution". But then he wanted people to not look on him as an idiot, you apparently don't care. You are satisfied to sit in a cave of ignorance and listen only to the advice of other idiots.
There is no argument that the theistic world can produce on evolution that can't be easily defeated. Any and every theistic argument against evolution has been crushed thousands of times on the internet alone. To put it in its briefest form, it is impossible to claim our record of life, over billions of years could possibly be a result of creation.
For there to have been a creation your god would need to be regularly making species extinct and creating new ones to replace them and we would observe it. But beyond that there has been seven different species of man discovered to date. Too different to be human and too advanced to be an animal. Do you suggest 7 Adams and Eves?
Oh and finally, we have proved man and chimpanzees had a common ancestor beyond any possible debate using retro-virus markers.
@@KuanGung 1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
@@richardjackson6307 Read Lawrence Krauss' book: "A Universe from nothing" It explains the viable theory for a universe from nothing. Save "Nothing ever comes from nothing" for your ignorant theist friends.
Yes, well, "Intelligent Design" Good one. The very short version: Intelligent design = plans = repeatable by others = not omnipotent = not a god = not able to create.
And "intelligent design" in nature proves it? Evolution proves otherwise and unlike your imaginary "intelligent design" theory, that evolution occurs is no longer theory it is now proven fact. Awwwwwww.......... Sorry.
This next generation of atheists owe their existence to the “new atheists”. A movement evolving is not indicative of a failure but it is indicative of some success.
Thank you so much for sharing this great conversation! It was a pleasure listening to both of you!
As someone who has been struggling for years to fully embrace the Christian faith, I would be very grateful to listen to a psychologist or psychiatrist who could explain why it is unlikely-and therefore illogical to assume-that Jesus suffered from a mental illness.
I know that you have already shared on your channel a short video about the so-called “trilemma” originally proposed by C. S. Lewis. However, I have to admit (with shame …) that I am yet not fully convinced the hypothesis that Jesus actually had some sort of mental disorder is unsustainable, since skeptics suggest that he might have been partially mentally impaired, i.e., that he was capable of making profoundly wise statements, while, at instances, succumbing to megalomaniacal thought patterns. Moreover, these skeptical critics also claim that the suggestion Jesus must have been the Son of God simply because he attracted huge crowds is fallacious, due to the fact that there are multiple examples of dictators who equally were followed by large groups of people, even by entire nations …
If you happen to know of some psychologist or psychiatrist who could explain why these and similar assertions are unsubstantiated, please do share the corresponding links to their work, websites, podcasts etc.
This would truly be helpful!
Thank you very much for all your great work on this channel!
God bless you!
Anna
News flash :
Atheism, humans " default state" is neither new nor failing ( in fact, atheism grows exponentially worldwide every year with better education)
Statistics show that the happiest nations on earth are strongly secular.
Delusion can be comforting
As to why we have suffering… most Christians have some idea of this but it’s put nicely in the book The Great Controversy in the chapter Why was Sin Permitted?
Also the first chapter in a book in the same series; Patriarchs and Prophets is mostly the same, but covers a little more, if I’m remember right.
Thanks for this discussion! It just reminds me again that there is such a large vista of new futures when we actually allow God to sanctify our most recent normalisations of evil. May we be found sanctifying our relationship with God through the grace of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit.
Love this conversation! Thank you! 😊
Enjoyed listening to this guest. The problem of suffering led to my departure, I didn't find out until a few years ago it isn't or shouldn't be a problem. I do think it is the biggest cause of recruitment and retention problems for Christians though.
The majority of Christians left Christianity because it started to not make sense.
@@kos-mos1127
Be more specific. I don't know whether to agree or not. You could be right. Not in my case though, it was more like with friends like that, who needs enemies. Not how I see it anymore.
@@Realist-sh3dg What is there to specify? What happened: I left Christianity
Why: Because Christianity stopped making sense.
@@kos-mos1127 The MAJORITY of Christians left Christianity because it started to not make sense (your words). I concede, I can't argue the leading cause of why Christians leave Christianity.
@@kos-mos1127 Could you explain a little more how Christianity stopped making sense? For instance, is it along the lines of “why do bad things happen to good people”?
Love this conversation! Great job gentlemen!
I remember watching Hitchens going through his speech about how God was basically evil for allowing suffering, it is interesting to ponder why he is so emotional when doing so…he is quite angry and visibly hurt by the idea of it. If he simply didn’t believe in God, why the raw emotion? I never saw it that way until watching this video. It’s like he believes deep down maybe at an unconscious level, but can’t get over the hurt of God allowing that suffering.
No, more like he is just acting as if God exists for the sake of argument, just like one can't help but speak as if Walter White is real when discussing the events in Breaking Bad. Also, keep in mind Hitchens had been all over the world and probably saw and heard some terrible things firsthand. That probably factors in strongly as well.
All the antitheists seem like total pessimists to me. Dawkins too.
You ask some wonderfully tough questions! It’s awesome to watch these apologists struggle through those tough questions and it gives me hope to see young people my age still investing in this topic! Don’t stop! Would love to get to talk with you and pick your brain about religion and theology sometime!
I am willing to discuss stuff. If you want to, of course.
I think the Christian teaching of the Fall cannot be ignored. It explains why the world seems broken and corrupt as well as being amazing and wonderful. And what Christ's resurrection points to, which is restoration, of our relationship to God, to each other, to nature, and our being given back our place as representative of God's benevolent rule over the world.
The " Meaning Of Life And Existence ", a question known to most people, that others make their own meanings by doing self motivated goals.
Sometimes it makes me wonder-if this question leads to seek the meaning or just making a nonsense argument? Because there are people that setting and doing their own goals in life, believing that those are the meanings of existence.
Yet still, they end up seeking for something deeply in their selves. Even though, they already have everything-that they spend a liftime working on.
I don't even know, if the question leads us to find the meaning, or just a nonsense argument without considering God and His divine plans for humanity.
These perspective proves that, there are things beyond physics.
It seems to me, that only if and when you believe that God is good, are you able to experience His goodness. As long as youu're shaking your fist at Him, your arrogant heart attitude will not allow you to acknowledge His goodness in any circumstance. Only by humbling ourselves are our hearts opened to experiencing it...
I am unable to differentiate what you speak of with existential Stockholm Syndrome.
@@wet-read I am not a victim of God!😄 I am his loved and blessed son...
The Christian message on suffering and evil is that God came down and experienced pain and humiliation and mockery and betrayal and torture and suffering and then death
So God hasn't distanced himself from it
He became part of it
'We are story driven creatures.' And we all have a story, in my youth I was driven to find meaning.
I actually largely agree with that. What baffles me is why people like the idea of being a part of someone else's story, and/or a story that precedes them and only exists because it is continually passed down. I mean, they can if they want to, but our own lives and the details therein are stories unto themselves. Why isn't that enough? Besides, they can also be seen as part of a tapestry and not purely distinct and cut off, anyway.
Amazing Ayaan Hirsi Ali story 🤯
Did it fail? The last time I checked, religion in the US was in steep decline. I don't know how much Richard and the Horsemen had to do with that but it was not nothing.
Amazing conversation
Great discussion. Justin always staying on that question, "Well, is it really true?" The knowledge terms haven't been clarified enough, as I've had to do, and been able to do. Peterson and Lewis can be joined with William James and OC Simonton MD-R Henson's Healing Journey for the medically attested-medically impossible healings with spiritual religious testimony. Right wing idolatry is being paired with Brett Weinstein types and Tom Holland, but no attention is being given to Chris Hedges or Bill McKibben progressives.
Great talk you guys. Thank you!!
@@MR_DAILYDOSEOFWISDO which one would you like to talk to privately? Lol
Gentlemen I loved your discussion. You have obviously heard the proposition that as adults we need to put aside childish things or childish ideas. That is put aside the black and white view that fundamentalist Christians insist on. We need to be adults and understand that indeed there are some black and white ideas but that also there are parables and metaphors. Jordan Peterson has well identified this in his discussions of the bible. However, when you try to discuss the absolutes like God or the Creator of All, you have no choice but to use parables which provide the analogy and the metaphors. Also, it is important to understand that Jesus was not asking us to have a theological discussion about the matters he was discussing, but rather to have a spiritual experience. For once you have had a spiritual experience you cannot unsee or unexperience it, and it will forever change the way you know yourself and the world and how you relate to others. The TRUTH is LOVE.
Thanks!
Thanks Vic!
Obediant acceptance has to become a mature faith, in my case sunday school bible stories stayed with me pilgrims progress made such an impression on me when I was very young.
Our God is Amazing ❤
Where’s the link to the debate mentioned at the beginning?
For me yeah the suffering issues seem quite cold. Some people I talked to about my struggle will start to say something like well there are those who got it worse than you, which in turn trivialize your suffering and felt really uncaring more counterproductive than just shut up and listen
I think Suffering, as big as it is ,can be ended .
Because when you realize a human being never suffers .It is always the image they have of themselves that suffers.
@@Jayys647 Children dying of cancer aren’t suffering? Just the image they have? Heartless
@evansplittorff6942 you know what, clearly you just took what i said completely wrong without even asking me what i meant.
Called me heartless when you dont even know me .What has become of this world.
But i wish you all the best in life honestly.And hope only good things comes to you.
@@Jayys647 you said “a human being never suffers”. What did you mean by that if not the words you said? I’m really sorry if I misunderstood you
Your comment about suffering reminds me of Job’s friends. The difference between most of us and Job’s friends is that for the first seven days Job’s friends said nothing and were just there to support their friend.
So funny, every MeTube advert during my listen of this video is straight from Progressive, Inc.
4:53 Mahn, it's always apparent to me when the argument of: 'If God made the world, why is there suffering?' as if that's the reason God made us. For us to have free will, it feels obvious to me that there would be the option for us to do things that aren't good, in which we bring about suffering in the world through our sin.That always feels apparent to me l:/
Our sin causes volcanoes?
@@marksnow7569 You are referring to natural disasters, yes? I suppose free will doesn't address that so muhch. But even from a human perspective, for God to make a world without any possibility for danger and suffering, and to give us free will on top of that, he would have to make us in a sanitized fluffy world where nothing bad happens, which then begs the question, what's the point of creating at all? Why make people with free will at all if they don't have anything to overcome or interact with? Hmm, something to that affect atleast.
There’s plenty of suffering not caused by free will or human actions that god is indifferent to also tho.
@DM-dk7js that would make sense if humans lived forever baring disease or other external natural forces. But this life is a temporary form. So in all honesty, God's plan is to unite us with him, what difference does it make if you live 100 years or 5, the point of your life here is to choose God. If you do that in the time yoir allotted, it don't matter how you go
@@boomguitarjaredThe bad things also happen to non-human living creatures, which may or may not possess what we understand as "free will".
All of this fits in with what atheist philosopher Jurgen Habermas noted years ago:
) "Egalitarian universalism, from which sprang the ideas of freedom and social solidarity, of an autonomous conduct of life and emancipation, of the individual morality of conscience, human rights and democracy, is the direct heir of the Judaic ethic of justice and the Christian ethic of love. This legacy, substantially unchanged, has been the object of continual critical appropriation and reinterpretation. To this day, there is no alternative to it. And in light of the current challenges of a postnational constellation, we continue to draw on the substance of this heritage. Everything else is just idle postmodern talk.”
Praise Yeshua. Thank you brothers.
Justin is speaking straight facts and truth. I have said almost every point he’s brought up whenever think about Christianity or atheism. For one, there IS faith in the worldview (because it IS a worldview as some have tried to say otherwise) of atheism. An atheist cannot escape faith no matter how much they connect it to negative, religious connotations. Your faith is that the story of evolution is true. It is NOT a demonstrated fact. Most importantly, you have faith that Science is the ultimate arbiter of truth and can and will be able to explain everything both past, present, and future. You DO need faith for that.
I must agree, obviously, that overall Christianity makes the most sense of everything as far as meaning, morality and the origins of life. Especially as compared to other faiths. No surprise there.
Lastly, I have to agree with Justin that those who are having genuine questions about Christianity should indeed be shown other prominent faiths. I have little doubt that Christianity and its story will shine through where others might them someone wanting. The experience that Justin has is evident in the way he addresses the topics.
You're equivocating with the term 'faith'.
We don't need faith to know if evolution is the best description, the evidence shows that it is. Anyone can enter the relevant scientific field, and many thousands do every year and validate it themselves.
_" Most importantly, you have faith that Science is the ultimate arbiter of truth and can and will be able to explain everything both past,"_
This is a straw man. Scientists generally don't say this. We don't know the limits of science. It's a method and it's been a very successful one. Will it ever explain everything? No idea.
@@markh1011 I won’t address your evidence comment as you sound the same way in that a Christian believes there’s good evidence for the existence of God where you don’t see any. It is mainly affected by your likely disposition against God or supernatural or whatever you might call your reason. I can poke many holes in the supposed evidence in your belief of evolution as I’m sure you believe you can with my beliefs.
I didn’t say that scientists say this. However, in both my conversations with atheists and many, many videos that I’ve watched about either original believers or Christian converts while in the scientific field, it is very evident that that is how scientists and atheists see “Science.” That is one of the main things the people that were in the field bring up.
“If we don’t know now, we eventually will.” That’s the version of retorts I’ve either had said to me or read. Especially when I’ve brought up weak points about evolution. Don’t tell me you haven’t seen these comments spouted yourself. So, I feel very comfortable saying that atheists see “Science” in that way. What else would atheists get “truth” from if not science?! It is always a very dogmatic approach to materialistic results. Hence science.
@@prestonmccoy7097
_"I can poke many holes in the supposed evidence in your belief of evolution"_
Go ahead.
_" it is very evident that that is how scientists and atheists see “Science.”_
ohh so you know what atheists and scientists think better than they do.
Yeah that sounds like a solid argument. 🙄
@@prestonmccoy7097
_" That’s the version of retorts I’ve either had said to me or read."_
There is a lot we will work out. To deny this would be absurd. Look at how far we've come in a 200 years. Imagine what we'll know in 200 more.
_"So, I feel very comfortable saying that atheists see “Science” in that way."_
...even though I see many atheists and scientists saying otherwise.
_" What else would atheists get “truth” from if not science?!"_
What do you mean by 'truth'? Science has been the _best_ tool we have for explaining the universe around us and this is how I see scientists positioning it.
But to your question, do you have a more reliable method?
@@markh1011 Cool. We’re talking around each like always happens with proud believers of their respective worldviews. Go figure. Not wasting my time with the evolution stuff because it won’t matter. Be confident your worldview, I’ll be confident in mine.
You don’t have to believe me about how most atheists, especially super-educated ones like scientists, tend to view what “Science” can do regarding getting all the answers to life.
You can look up videos about people who converted from atheism to Christianity (which you won’t) while in the scientific field and they will give testimony that many people hold a religious fervor about science and what it can do to answer many things. It’s a very common trend in the videos. So, yes I’ll generalize what atheists and scientists think about science from repeated observations and experiences. The same way you do about theists. Or do you not? However, you don’t have to believe. I do not care. You are here to be a contrarian at this point as these talks always go that route. Bye.
High praise for this. Getting the heavyweights in a most complete manner. Listened to his lecture at Lanier Theological Library on UA-cam. Excellent. Boohoo, Richard Dawkins. Jeers aside, I pray for Richard, all the others who feel there is anything “new” about atheism. What a hopeless and life darkening way of thinking. DDW: keep up the good work.
Do not pray for me please. I have no use for near eastern Iron Age dogma.
All of the criminals who harmed others today actualized atheistic thinking.
Um, what?
Yeah....what?!
An atheist doesn't believe in god, and unlike the religious who are over represented in prisons, atheists are under represented per population, you are wrong ten times over and should start with a dictionary on what atheist means
There is no greater lie than a truth misunderstood by those who hear it. - William James
1769 KJB to the 1828 Webster’s Dictionary.
-Hear the flowers blooming?
That's a question that I should consider asking more of. If you would worship a God, what would he be like? I think the question can also be very revealing of the person.
If you step out of Plato's cave you've stepped at least one step closer to god(s).
Small point of critisism: "a God" is nonsense, it's either 'a god' or '(the) God'.
@@BlacksmithTWD well, the reason I wrote "a God" is because we have Judaism and Islam, and who knows how many others. Writing "a god" leaves open the possibility that they will worship more than one and none are at the top. Saying "the God" might seem like to them that they don't get to voice what they would want. And we should want to to voice what they want to express themselves so that we know where they're at. Let them reveal themselves.
@@JiraiyaSama86If you mean to talk about Christianity, Judaism and Islam only I'd opt for 'the Abrahamic God'. I'd argue that 'a god' requires a montheistic religion since it's singular. When I want to leave open the option you mean to exclude I'd say '(a) god(s)'. My critisism was merely a grammatical issue. I'd consider the first part of my previous comment to be the more interesting part.
@@BlacksmithTWD That's the thing. I don't know how many more are out there. Obviously, there is a difference in opinion on the grammar.
As for Plato's cave, that appears to be the barrier for some atheists, if we were to take them at their word. "I must be able to see it." Here's the problem. What is the "it" that they're describing? They can say God, but what does that mean to them? The flying spaghetti monster? A "sky daddy?" Since they're so insistent on the physical aspect, might as well ask.
I wouldn’t want to worship any God. To be free is the greatest good.
I thank yous
Can we acknowledge that the Christian Church's failings (and I believe they are many) are written large all over our culture and people not connected to the church are justifiably reluctant to accept it's claims. I think it's incredibly valuable as Christians to promote the Useful but not "True/Literal" model because right action is more important than right belief.
How do we find different frames of the Christian story to meet people where they are.
Justin, you are 100% correct!
Christianity is just a nice STORY!
So is "Harry Potter" - that doesn't make it true
Great conversation I have been watching Justin essentially since he started, because like many of us intellectuals, I needed to know that I could trust what I knew to be true to be true!! 😂 . The one thing he didn’t mention in relationship to the “death” of the new atheism, is the advance of science. The advance of science has forced many of them to acknowledge that there is a designer hallelujah!!!
The advance of science has not force people to acknowledge that there is a designer.
We try to equip our youth so that they keep their faith out there when they go away for college. And we hope they are not swayed by the world. But we are not without tools. We show the love of Jesus to them by sending care packages and cards from the church.
It only fails because theist refuse to question their religion, its claims, and its history.
Theism requires ignorance to flourish.
Thats patently false though. Theism is a general term for belief in a personal God. Specific religions or dogmas may have individuals that cling to an unflinching fideism. But that doesn't speak for the whole. Not only that but much of the sciences and colleges/major institutions were established and brought out by theists.
So your statement is only partially correct. Best to avoid sweeping generalizations.
@inquisitiveferret5690
That was pretty much a nuh-uh response.
When people ask questions and find that the answers are nonsense, by doing the fact checking outside of the echo chamber... they educate themselves and are no longer ignorant. When they listen to apologetics, they reinforce their ignorance by feeding their confirmation bias and allowing euhemerism and pseudoscience to replace history and scientific evidence.
So my statement stands, and not both "partially correct" and "patiently false" as you say.
@@manamanathegreat4986 No it wasn't and no it doesn't. At least not in a strict or absolute sense.
You just assert that Theism is requires ignorance to flourish. I cited what Theism is vs personal religious institutions or branches, which isn't entirely compatible with your assertion. Because all you did was utilize and sweeping generalization and poison the well.
There are plenty of examples of educated Theists, who with learning and answering questions, utilizing actual history and science became or developed a deeper faith. People like Francis Collins, Dr. Holly Ordoway, Josh Rasmussen and a host of others.
Maybe it's not as binary as you assert. Maybe it's more deep and complicated then you think.
So yes, yous statement is only partially correct and patently false. I was charitable and conceded that there are some sects of religious ideologies that do hold to strict anti-science, anti-intellectual, and fideistic practices.
But certainly not all or the whole. So my statement(s) stand.
@inquisitiveferret5690 he'll.
so you reinforced your nuh-uh with an argument from authority?
ok boss.
@@manamanathegreat4986 Not an argument from authority. Just cases that are contrary to your claim. I didn't say 'Person X of Noted repute, hold position Y, so position Y must be true". There are people with education and background that run contrary to your assertion that Theism requires ignorance or lack of education to flourish.
I'm not trying to be combative here. But your statements are literally on par with the fundamentalist Christians who say 'atheists don't want to believe because they love sin so much" or "you actually do believe deep down, you just refuse to admit it".
It does nothing to further the discourse.
But you have done nothing to further your assertions. Just strawmaning me, even though I gave examples and addressed the logic you were using.
If a man had the "stop you in your tracks" answer to "Why does God allow evil and suffering?", what would be the best way to distribute that answer?
It ultimately comes down to free will. God wants people to choose him but he can’t force them or else he wouldn’t be just. Which means he has to give people the opportunity and ability to reject him. Which means, inevitably, people will choose evil.
@@Doc-Holliday1851 Correct, and to add to that Satan called God a liar who withholds good from his subjects... he charged that God is a bad ruler (Genesis 3:2-5). Satan implied that mankind would be better off without God’s rulership. Hence, God has allowed Satan to rule mankind. Also, since Adam and Eve chose to obey Satan, God has also allowed humans to govern themselves under Satan’s guidance.
@@Doc-Holliday1851 But evils such as cancer, disease, natural disasters, and starvation all predate humanity.
Cancer specifically is a natural byproduct of the way organisms operate. It is baked in to the very design and mechanisms of the body.
To chalk up the unthinkable levels of suffering that pervade reality to “free will”, is like trying to reach the moon by stacking rocks higher and higher.
I’m an atheist. I’m not an atheist because of some nebulous “problem of evil” argument. That’s just more philosophical mumbo-jumbo that has nothing to do with either the existence of a god or gods, or whether or not Christianity is true. I don’t believe in a resurrected Jesus dude, but even that, doesn’t get to the core of why I’m an atheist.
To understand why I’m an atheist, one first has to understand why I reject Christianity. I reject Christianity not because I don’t believe in the resurrection, although that’s next on the list. I reject Christianity because it is more than obvious to me, that the so-called apostle Paul was running a scam that preyed upon people who were into the Jesus dude. Christians may believe that 1 Corinthians: 16 is all about tithing. It’s really all about relieving people of their money. To me, once the con is recognized, not only does Christianity cease to have a point, every other argument for the existence of a god becomes pointless.
For all of the people who think that all atheists are nothing more than angry nihilists, let me assure you that I’m just fine. I’m neither angry, nor a nihilist. Go ahead and be a Christian. I don’t care. But see what happens when you stop putting money in the collection basket.
It sucks I grew up in that time. I’ll always have doubts I think, and I wish I didn’t. Maybe it’s a positive… I just don’t think it is for me.
34:39 _"he really understands that he wants the idea of human rights to be true, but he knows it's a theological invention"_
Theological rather than philosophical? The Golden Rule, for example, is common to cultures across the world.
That all people are created equal really isn’t though.
@@richardc8353 That's effectively an anti-theological invention (no "ruling by divine right")
Not sure that matters. Christianity isn’t about theology or “words about God” it’s about God. Jesus’ example is about letting go of what you “have” or your entitlement etc. Give that up and you gain the whole world.
@@richardc8353 That's a top-down version of the religious position; the bottom-up equivalent is "When Adam dalf, and Eve span, Who was thanne a gentilman?" which brutally amends (as part of a proto-Maoist call to revolution) the earlier, more conventionally religious sentiment "“When Adam delf and Eve span, Whare was than the pride of man?”
@@marksnow7569that, my friend is one of the most wonderful word salads I’ve ever seen. 😂
An atheist is not necessarily an a-humanist.
So, An atheist who believes in human rights can work with theists
who share values for compassion and mutual understanding
for the common good in this life.
Some theists consider this faith …very well…that reframing may be useful.
Believing the origin of human rights is metaphysical
does matter philosophically in establishing priorities.
So, When Christian priorities are focused on after death events …
then people are dehumanized in favor of invisible beings
and doctrines regarding an eternal self awareness.
Christianity that prioritizes human rights in real life
can be compatible with secular priorities.
Can Christianity justify its relevance
without threats and promises regarding not really being dead after dying?
I think so …but as a humanist one observes the resilience of human supernatural beliefs.
Without threats and punishment after death Christianity is irrelevant to many.
But With threats and punishments, Christianity is unconvincing and harmful to many.
How will Christianity adapt …we will see.
Sorry, I'm not always in this space. Is Justin not doing the podcast anymore?
I appreciate your channel.. I really do but I sometimes get angry I like to listen to good explanations and conversations that try to proof the Christian miracle as truth. Unfortunately so far I yet to see proof or argumentation good enough to convince me but I hope one day you csn help me change my mind / or not.
It didn't fail. Many just don't feel the need to go on and on about it like religious people do. There's some but most just keep it to themselves.
I’d argue that the New Atheism movement hasn’t failed. If anything, it accelerated other harmful ideologies to become more prevalent and appear “sane.”
This is similar to how the Nazi regime never really failed, as it prepared the ground for the Soviet Union to conquer much of Eastern Europe under the guise of liberating these lands from Nazi invaders.
New Athiesm:
Big spooky aliens ganna decend from the stars and make us eat bugs with Klaus Schwab because of climate change.
Modern people are wrapped up in the realm of idea and identity. Existence is constrained by our mental ego chains. I was no different for most of my life.
But Jesus came to bring new and free life. His promise is the direct presence of God and power for that new life here and now.
There is great freedom in letting go of 'me' and letting him lead the way, letting him exercise the Spirit's power in the way he can. To trust and be, without anything to prove or gain. The love and peace that grows from that is what propels us to help and serve others.
@TeI.egr.am-RealDailyDose I don't use that medium. Sorry.
The podcast started and I wasn't watching the screen. I was just listening. I wondered.why you had Daniel Radcliffe on your show. Justin sounds just like him. Or Harry Potter sounds like Justin.
Rishi Sunak sounds exactly like Tony Blair
There is some atheist guy who lives down the road who states he is unconvinced any god exists. Do you know what else we know about him? Absolutely nothing.
No one has to disprove a god. It is up to the believers to prove their case. So the questions atheists may have are really irrelevant. They may be relevant to the particular religious bent of the theist, but they are not relevant to whether there is a god or not. Let's not forget there are many gods in many different cultures. Christians don't believe in any god except their own, and that is true of most religions. The religious are for the most part, atheists, except for their own god. They should ask themselves, "Why don't I believe in any of the gods except mine?" That will show them the argument against god.
this assumes no one has looked into other cultures and religions. They are certainly not all the same. The difference makes a difference. Just calling them gods as well doesnt make them like the Hebrew God of creation or Jesus.
Early Christians were indeed called atheists for denying the Greek pantheons.
They didnt say: ahhhh… theres no real difference between our God and theirs. They knew there was a difference, and the difference matters.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922 In fact it's exactly what you'd expect from a human made god. Everyone thinks their god is the true god. What's interesting is how many similarities there are between the various religions. Again, exactly what you'd expect from human made gods. Potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto.
@@throckmortensnivel2850 I don’t find what you said to hold any water whatsoever. You can shrug and say “that’s exactly what you’d expect” about anything. Define what, and define what you’d expect it, specifically from a man made god, and not for other reasons. Otherwise all that remains is your shrugging and an empty rationalization that pretends it’s logical.
Nor do similarities matter.
My Doc Martens have a lot of similarities to high heel shoes. But it’s their DIFFERENCES and DISTINCTIONS that make one a boot and the other women’s apparel.
Many molecules bear similarities to other molecules - yet one might be flammable and the other not… one might be toxic and the other not. The differences and distinctions are ALLLL that matter when it comes to ANY knowledge - not similarities.
Humans are similar to pigs. It’s the differences that make one human and the other a pig.
The letter b and the letter d have a lot of similarities as well. But if we ONLY see the similarities - and not the distinctions - we have no written language. IT’s the distinctions that matter.
Compare the Old Testament to other religions of that time - its distinctions define it as a whole. Genesis itself is a complete reversal of existing religions. Other religions worshipped the sun, the moon, the stars, sea monsters, animals and all other forms of nature. The first words of the Bible say those are just part of substance. Part of creation. Part of science. And God is outside that. Pretty accurate to how we see things NOW. The sun, it turns out, is exactly what the Bible said: just part of the natural world and not a god.
Other ancient religions sacrificed people including children. The Bible strictly prohibits this.
Other religions appeal to the gods for favor. To better ones position. To gain access to their power or benefit.
The Bible expects forgiveness. An appeal to God for reconciliation. To be humble before God.
Other ancient religions depict their people as heroes.
The Bible depicts its people as ones who let God down repeatedly, and must be brought back into His good graces.
The Bible claims all are created in God’s image.
Other ancient religions thought men were playthings of the gods.
Other religions have creation via sex and war. The Hebrew Bible has God separating the waters of chaos into habitable meaning and space. Light and dark separate. The waters and land separate. Animals are separate from man. Man is separate from woman. Sex is created for created beings. God is asexual and does not create via his sexuality - which is common in other religions.
Many other religions worship death and the dead. Even secular books on cultural folklore admits this. The Egyptians even had the Book of the Dead as their major religious text. In many man was created by death. This is also reversed - as the fall directly puts death as the enemy. And God as the God of life.
You can SAY there are a lot of similarities. But it’s an observation without any meaning.
Especially with the Bible, which specifically exists as a contrarian set of ideals.
You seeing the similarities is so that you can be similarly dismissive.
But knowledge is synonymous with seeing distinctions. You can’t even eat a walnut without seeing the shell as different from the kernel. Being quite similar…. Except one being edible and the other not.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922 And all of the examples you give are of two or more things that are real. But the religious say their god is real, and the others are not. Tell me why you think your god is real, and the others are not.
@@ithurtsbecauseitstrue1922Still the biblical God is exactly what I would expect if God was man made.
To me there are two obvious problems with the "New Atheism" movement, it spiralling out of control with more focus on deeper philosophical arguments instead of focusing on the more obvious (and more easily digestable) arguments of probability and science. The second one (and I hate to harp on about this as I don't even like the word) "wokeness"... when the Atheist Experience started to use and seemingly enforce pronouns I knew they on the decline.
Surely the aim is should be to educate the masses and not become a masterclass of moral philosophy for the initiated?
When it comes to the infected trans-issues this has nothing, *NOTHING* to do with atheism and one could argue that the "transwomen are woman" has got en elements of faith in it.
The movement seems to have forgotten that being an Atheist does not say anything about the persons political nor other views. It became an echo-chamber of sameness.
It didn't fail. This notion that it did is just a cheap tactic for you to gain favour with your own audience.
The New Atheism as you called it allowed a lot of people to make an religious assessment without prejudice and then make a decision
Religious people tend to think that atheism is a way of life, but (to use the old analogy) it's as much a way of life as not stamp collecting is a hobby.
❤
Spirituality is the future of human and world .
One
Unbelievable mysterious powerful spiritual path : Kundalini yoga
' Ramlal ji siyag sidhayog '
*
Literature of
Kashmiri Pandit Gopi Krishna
Published in America
*
Atheism can't explain about this.
I’m in the process of transferring all of my subscriptions over to Rumble. I absolutely despise YewToobe and I want to spend as little time on the platform as possible.
I hope to see Daily Dose of Wisdom there soon!
Just saw a video of Dawkins professing his preference for the “Christian world” well, he is reaping the whirlwind, as Islam will become increasingly ascendant in the UK