Shin Megami Tensei V Vengeance - FIRST IMPRESSIONS REVIEW
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- It's been a long time since a game almost immediately felt great and then kept feeling better for me. But SMT5: Vengeance is surprising me with how beautiful, fun and mechanically engaging it is, while ditching (or letting ME ditch) the common weaknesses in turn-based JRPGs.
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To clarify a bit about the lore, the God or YHVH mentioned in Megami Tensei is and is not supposed to represent the Christian God. It goes back to a very early sect of Christianity called Gnosticism. The Gnostics basically created a mythology to explain what they saw as a contradiction between the Old and New Testaments. That being that the New Testament God is very clearly a god of all encompassing love personified, but in the Old Testament he seems much more harsh in his judgments, often coming across as arrogant or even evil from the perspective of the Gnostics.
Because of this contradiction they created the idea of the Demiurge. His name is Yaldabaoth, and he acts as a dark, materialistic shadow of God. Yaldabaoth's chief characteristic is ignorance. He cannot see the spiritual world so he believes that he is all there is. That leads to him declaring himself to be God. The Gnostics assert Yaldabaoth is the god of the Old Testament and that he is in fact a totally different being from the God of the New Testament. SMT plays this straight. The God that the angels refer to is actually Yaldabaoth literally taking the name of the Tetragrammaton for himself. The actual New Testament God is called the Great Will, and very little is known about him other than he created the multiverse and Lucifer isn't a fan.
Furthermore, the order and chaos dichotomy is not strictly an Eastern thing. It's a very important theme in Judaism, specifically Kabbalah. In Kabbalah, all layers of reality exist as an interplay between two different aspects of God. Ein-Sof the Primordial Chaos and Adam Kadmon, the soul of Adam. The interpretation here is that when God said let there be light, that was an expansion of infinite chaotic light from Ein-Sof and it was Adam Kadmon as an aspect of God that shaped the infinite light into reality. In SMT, this both literal and several layers of metaphor. On the one hand, it's a commentary about how humans can only exist within a homeostasis of order and chaos. You need the chaos to generate life but too much causes only ruin, so you need an order to shape that chaos into habitable reality. But too much order leads to stagnation. On the other, it's also a commentary on human history, with the gods representing different ideologies and civilizations. The game is pointing to the fact that Adam Kadmon shaping the light of Ein-Sof into reality is very similar to how in the Babylonian religion Marduk slew Tiamat the Dragon of Chaos and shaped her corpse into reality and how in Norse mythology Odin slew Ymir and shaped the world from his body. These represent the same idea but expressed in a different way in a different civilization. Almost like a lineage of ideas.
SMT isn't really approaching things from the perspective of which religion is true or not, but neither is it a surface level reading of all religions being equal. Rather it's examining the philosophies that spring forth from these ideas and exploring the ways in which they're both similar and different.
Interesting! Thanks for your perspective on this! -Paeter
Super tip, use spyglasses. They instantly tell the monster's stats like their affinities and skills. They're also only 100 macca in the store so you can practically spam them. Its much better to use them rather than randomly check what stats the monster has via trial and error mid combat.
Cool, thank you! -Paeter
So would you be comfortable including *spoiler alert* known demons like Beelzebub or even Lucifer in your team as a Christian? Will there be any issues there?
Well I think I'd probably feel a bit of strangeness about it because of the disconnect between the names I'm familiar with and the alternate concept of them presented here. I'd have to cross that bridge when I come to it. But I suspect I'd be fine with it in the end because it would do nothing to alter my understanding of what I believe to be true. For much more expanded thoughts and relevant biblical passages on the topic of playing as evil characters in games, I've made this video I'd invite you to check out when you have the time and inclination: ua-cam.com/video/xhHIZ1ukACc/v-deo.html -Paeter
Love the review on this game it is great but i have one question. In the video i noticed a missing piece in the footage and was wondering if you went the Canon of Creation? Its not a big deal if you did or didnt i just thought i ask.
Oh and i do agree with you on the "What do you mean..." question
I went Canon of Creation because I wanted to experience the original story path first. -Paeter
@@christiangeekcentral Thats cool hope you enjoy your time playing this game for however long you wish to play it
Great review man
Thank you! -Paeter
@@christiangeekcentral your welcome man
Haven’t started it yet on the Switch but I plan on it 😎 such awesome visuals!
In SMT, God or YHVH is an antagonistic force, like always. In the games, the Demons represent Chaos, survival of the strongest and freedom to forge your own purpose, while God and his angels represent Order, wich is the Lack of freedom and progress in exchange for safety and purpose.
In several of the Games, YHVH is killed by the Protagonists. In SMT V however, the Game starts with his Death and the Race to take up his throne wich is now empty. While choosing both Chaos and Order is an option, the true ending in most games is considered to be the neutral ending, wich rejects both Order and Chaos and the Supernatural forces of Heaven and Hell in its total, while focusing on humantiy itself.
Interesting to hear! Thanks for your perspective on the series! -Paeter
@@christiangeekcentralSo SMT makes God look like the bad guy and makes the demons look like the good force here basically christians who takes religion seriously shouldn’t play this game.
@@christiangeekcentralPlus it will not end well for the game when they get to the part where Lucifer said he killed God.
Angels in this game are also "demons". Anything supernatural is classified as a demon
@@Pikachu-qr4yb That is true but more of a meta theme in the game, the post was more for people who have no clue about SMT.
With Meta Theme, i mean that "God" basically downgraded everything that other religions worshiped into demons reflects how Christianity tampered with historic records and folk tales when signs of supernatural things without the Christian god were present, and they then turned into witchcraft and so on.
Like you pointed out at the end of the review it is important to know what you mean by the words you choose.
The YHVH of the SMT Universe and "our" YHVH are very different. At least for the more modern games of the SMT Franchise, YHVH is deeply corrupted by a malevolent and mostly unexplained force (that isnt the great will of the universe), which explain why he is the biggest asshole in most SMT games. He is not the Lord, but he wears His title.
Thanks for the info! That's really helpful and further confirms my impressions! -Paeter
Bro is gonna flip when he finds out it is the god of the bible and yahweh is basically always the bad guy
Oh I knew that already from footage and screenshots of earlier games in the series. But my point is that, apart from the names and terminology, and a few similarities, the actual concepts of things like "demons", "angels", and yes, "Yahweh", are drastically different in key ways from the concepts they share names with in the Bible. So although there is a character named Yahweh, is he actually consistent with Yahweh in the Bible? No way. (Or should that be "no-weh"? Okay, bad joke.) -Paeter
YHWH basically isn't in V (although I haven't played Vengeance). V is from early on explained to be set in a world where he lost the final battle with Lucifer. Also he isn't even called by that name in this one just "the God of Law" I'm pretty sure. Also calling him the bad guy is a bit simplistic, in the game where the Law-Chaos conflict is centered on the YHWH vs Lucifer, picking between who to align with is meant to be a hard choice, or at-least a "you have to deal with the consequences of your actions and beliefs when there is no ideal choice" thing. At most he is "a bad guy" in games where most people either are or become some form of bad guy and you have to either end up with the one you find least bad, or deal with the consequences of turning on all of them.
@@Painocus god was killed by lucifer in v.
@@Painocus It's not really a hard choice, both Law and Chaos in most games are very extreme and not very desirable outcomes while neutral is the objectively best choice except that you don't solve the conflict you just post pone it.
@@Painocus Thanks for the info! -Paeter
So, I'm glad you're having such a good time with the game so far, and are trying to take a very open-minded approach with the more... risque aspects of its world and story. I will try to explain a little bit without spoiling too much, given you are only five hours in:
A. When they mean "God", they do mean the big guy himself, or at least an SMT interpretation of Him. You will be seeing Juedochristian angels of varying ranks and denominations throughout the game. The SMT franchise is very big on both religion and philosophy, asking what the best of course of action truly is in life, and what it would mean for someone to fill the role of an omnipotent god such as Him. I hope that doesn't soil your experience with the game too badly. I will say the term "demon" is used pretty liberally, and is usually a catch all term for the varying creatures, gods, monsters, and so on that dot the world as a whole.
B. I absolutely agree on the demon variety as well. It's especially cool for me seeing the wide variety of references and source materials being used, from Greek to Norse to Japanese to Aztec mythologies, even some cryptids and urban legends showing up like the Mothman. The variety on display, both visually and culturally, is impressive.
C. This one is more of a gameplay tip, but if you're having a ton of trouble finding weaknesses on enemies, you can buy Spyglasses from Gustave that will tell you a demon's affinities when used in battle. This is especially helpful against the Mitamas, those little teardrop guys you keep seeing, since their weaknesses always change every time you find one.
Edit: Oh yeah, almost forgot to ask, did you decide to do Canon of Creation or Canon of Vengeance? I'm guessing you picked Creation since you don't have any of the guest party members from the Vengeance route, but was just wondering.
Thanks for the tips! Yes, I went Creation for my first playthrough. As for your point on "A", I'd agree that it seems the writers think they are portraying the Yahweh of the Bible, but the attributes of Yawheh in the Bible ae wildly different. He is perfect in goodness, power, justice and love. So whatever the writers may intend, the net result is a portrayal of "God" that is fundamentally different in vital ways from Yahweh as described in the Bible. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I appreciate getting the perspective of a fan of the series! -Paeter
@christiangeekcentral yeah, that's why I made it clear that SMT has its own distinct interpretation of YHWH, who is a lot more authoritarian and power-hungry than a lot of mainstream presentations of him make him out to be. Again won't spoil anything, but if it makes you feel any better about SMT V, this game's portrayal of Him makes him seem a lot more benevolent and in line with more traditional Christian views of him, or at least is more benevolent than his past appearances in previous games. Hell, some people even question if YHWH in the older games and the "God of Law" in V are even the same character, or just two alternate versions of the same god in different universes. Either way, yeah, this game's relationship with Christianity, and most religions and mythologies, for that matter, is very risque and avant-garde, to say the least ^^;
@@dekucake4395 Thanks again for your thoughts! -Paeter
I love this game so far. I too wasn't totally regardful on the player character's design initially but after seeing him move on screen and learning both the story context and the thematic symbolism of the irl shinto storm god (who happened to have long locks of hair) who he was based off of, I've grown to love him and think he is just super cool.
The gameplay flow feels great to me. Much like Nocturne, I never felt powerless inspite of everything the game that throws at me. This isnt much of a spoiler but the only time I ever felt grindy was during the prepartion for the penultimate boss, Sata. But hey, anychance for me to to punch Satan in the chin? Counte me in.
Nice, glad you're enjoying it! -Paeter
Nice review, very interesting to see a christian perspective on this! Personally im atheist, just to be transparent, though i think "god" or the character of YHVH is more like the demiurge of gnosticism. The demiurge is a tyrant opressor and false idol, one who owns the material world whereas the true god of gnosticism is of the spiritual world. Gnosticism is a pretty big subject in itself but i think the basic themes sort of match. Law and chaos arent strictly evil or good in the mythology of SMT, law on the surface can seem nice on the surface but has a very "my way or the high way" sort of attitude. There is also the concept of the greater will which is the ultimate creationary force in smt, a force which operates in unseen ways to undo the tyranny of YHVH (usually by sending the protagonist of a particular SMT game to do something). Granted not everything perfectly matches of course, smt has made a lot of its own lore and mythology. In short i think YHVH is more like a false deity of order than something like the actual christian God. Though about nahobino being androgenous i think part of has to do with what you said about long hair in asian culture. I think the long hair is also there to suggest something wild or untamed about the protagonist of the game, neither quite god or man. Just sharing my thoughts!
I have yet to play the Canon of Vengeance route, but I would be very interested in your take on the game after finishing all of the Canon of Creation endings. I'm a Thelemite with Luciferian leanings, and the ideas addressed by this game are a lot of what I wish Christians at least understood when trying to talk to me about religion. This is a game that I recommend to other Thelemites in the same way that Christians might recommend The Chosen.
Thanks for watching and sharing your perspective! -Paeter
ive always contemplated playing it, maybe one day ill give it a shake n bake. his hair is like Absalom's.
I'll have to keep an eye out for low-hanging trees! -Paeter
@@christiangeekcentral lol
It's interesting to hear your perspective, I'm an atheist so I don't really care about these games going into different theologies as I don't believe that any of them are real, it makes it interesting and I don't think that you're supposed to take it super seriously. Also YHVH is a tyrannical monster in these games, he is the "God of Law" which is dead in V anyways. (If you want games in which he's more relevant there's SMT:II and SMTIV: Apocalypse)
In these games there's usually the Law/Chaos/Neutral endings, and one of the points is not make "Law=Good" and "Chaos=Bad", instead Law is usually about complete order and basically just dedicating your life to praying to god and not doing anything else(total lost of individuality/self) while Chaos is total freedom but that means that everyone is just killing each other. Basically both suck even if I end to favor Chaos because the Law representatives in these games are usually crazy religious fanatics and I despise them, while there's Neutral endings that are more about how Humans will create their own path without deities deciding things for us.
Also it's just kind of implied and never "confirmed" but it is heavily implied that this game happens after the True Demon Ending of Nocturne.
Thanks for your perspective! Yeah, the seemingly exclusive "Law" focus for "God" is a key thing that makes him so obviously not the Yahweh of the Bible. If I were to guess, the philosophy of the writers would be atheistic or agnostic, since the neutral "humanist" path is the "good" one. It would be interesting to hear them talk openly about that somewhere, but probably just for people like me who are nerds for that stuff. Thanks for your thoughts! -Paeter
I absolutley love smt. It is probbably my favorite video game series as a whole.
From what I seen and heard Japanesse people in general have pretty weird (at least to me) relationship with religions. They dont seem to take it really seriously but they still pray at the shrines or do other things like that. So I guess it might be the reason why smt looks like this. Its mix of many religions, myths and other things people belive in.
In terms of lore. Every supernatural creature is basically a demon. It applies to all deities and angels that appears in the games too. Angels are demons that follows god's (YHWH) order and some characters that are called gods are more powerfull demons. You can think of it like rectangles are squares. Each square (angel) is a rectangle (demon) while not every rectangle (demon) is a square (angel).
Its also importqnt that in the most cases when they say God they mean YHWH (the way the Yahweh is spelled in the games). He doesnt appear in every game like in V but he is mentioned there.
The world in smt multiverse was created multiple times and YHWH is not even the first creator god there (a lot of this is later explained much further in smt v)
Its really important to remember that smt is just a game series and Atlus declared that they dont want to be anti Christians even if in most cases law routes feels like being the bad one
If tou like the series I really recomend playing devil survivor it is on ds and 3ds. Its one of the best games in series and features one of the best law endings in the series that doesnt make god feel like a jerk
Thanks for the info and recommendation! -Paeter
While Japan does have different gender norms, and being more "effeminate" or pretty is more excepted within traditional masculinity, while the American style of a rugged manly man is something more associated with a stereotype of homosexuals, I think the devs said their choice for making the main character somewhat androgynous was that they wanted the players to make the choices they would make if they were in this situation and it was to make it easier for female players to also view the male character as an extension of themselves. (Some of the older games had gender options, but I guess that's harder to implement with voice-acting and character animation.) I'm not sure if that counts as doing gender stuff. Tbh I rarely have any idea what specifically Americans take issue with when they complain about gender stuff.
If you find what my aunt calls "Disney-sounding" performance style common to American dubbing frustrating you could also try out the Japanese voices. They are a bit more naturalistic, at-least for the human characters, and being in a language you don't understand might hide unnaturalness and aid the "strangeness" of the atmosphere.
I've definitely gone with the original language in some cases before, that's a great tip! I think here I do like the starkness of vocal silence, though. And thanks for the background info on the devs intent! Interesting stuff! -Paeter
SMT and it spin off games Persona have gain in popularity over the years. especially when Persona 5 came out in 2016 and Persona 5 royal a few years later. I think must Christians will not be comfortable with Persona games especially Persona 3,4, and 5 due to some dark themes and some small element of witchcraft. the witchcraft part is partly due to Tarot card elements are featured in the games. they're fun but can be addicting due to the engaging stories. like I said before due to minor occultic elements. many Christian gamers will not be too comfortable with it. I have not played any SMT games but vengeance may have raised my interest a little bit.
Thanks for watching! And I agree, games like these certainly raise eyebrows among some Christians, for sure! -Paeter
@@christiangeekcentral they're pretty good games but if you're sensitive to that content in the game. it best to just leave it alone. Persona 3 just got a re-issue called persona 3 reload. Persona 4 is pretty good game that take place in a small town. btw. most of the characters in those games are teenagers. Persona 5 btw. has some pretty wild bosses expecially the first one. Persona 5 royal is just the same game with an extra character amd dofferemt ending and them is a bit longer. Persona 5 striker is a direct sequel with a different combat system. it a bit like final fastasy because each gane is a new story, settings, and new MC and side characters.
Lucifer killed big the G God(YHVH)and transcended above him(Literally stronger than God) yeah this game is not for Christians who will take it seriously.
Nice
I do love the SMT series but the battles do feel extremely terrible and akward. The enemies are sponges hp wise. Also the stats of the demons dont matter the slightest. You always do "the same" damage. It is always arount 100-200 in midgame. There is no progression. You always hit for the same dmg. I am playing on hard mode and am now lvl 50. It is always like a race where you have to kill the enemy is quick as possible because it is so imbalanced. They hit like a truck. If you miss a hit or cant kill the normal enemies in one turn it can mean game over. Has nothing to to with hard. It just feels as if you dont get stronger.
Thanks for the heads up! I'll try to adjust my expectations for deeper in the game! -Paeter
I agree up to a certain extent; the game is definitely unapologetically demanding to the player's understanding of the battle mechanic between bosses REALLY FAST and not everyone can necessarily follow it's pace, but at the same time, theres never a non-solution to gate keeper bosses. Yakumo at Akibahara and Chernobog, at the Demon King's domain are two prominent examples of my previous triumphant strategy wont work as effectively as recruit a dark elemental demon and start blasting Yakumo with Mudo spells, or use an essence to gain physical reflect spell to prematurely shut down Chernobog's turn.
I think the only part where the battle truly felt like a drag and I'm just doing minimal damage is going into one of the final battle with Tehom with a physical centric party, but again, theres enough resource at this point to assemble a magic based party to play around Tehom's everchanging elemental weaknesses. The grinding maybe practically tedius but the solutions are never out of sight and reach.
Except when facing Satan, the superboss thats only available in NG+. It boils down to a long endurance round that is also a stat check to see if your party can survice and dish out enough numbers; in other word, you have to grind. Its the only instance from my playthrough where everything you described perfectly applied 😅