Can Christians Be "Evil" In Games? - THE TRUTH IS IN THERE
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 сер 2024
- TIME STAMPS
00:44 Introduction & Responding To Objections
11:12 Legitimate Reasons To "Be Evil" In Games
16:43 Unhealthy Reasons To "Be Evil" In Games
24:00 How We Can Know When We're Sinning
27:21 How We Should Talk With Each Other About This Topic
32:23 Closing Thoughts
Christian Geek Central- www.christiange...
Spirit Blade Productions- www.spiritblade...
Christians, Read your Bible, Pray, Pray, Pray, Repent of your Sins. i love games too, But not more than Obeying Jesus, i say video games in moderation, and Bible study, Worship and Prayer a major part of Our Lives as Disciples of Christ Jesus.
Absolutely agree! Vital parts of the Christian life. Thanks for your thoughts! -Paeter
Why does it have to be my Bible I read? Wouldn't any old Bible, regardless of what entity it belongs to do the trick?
This is not only an interesting topic but a difficult one to make a video on. I think you handled it very well. The Bible is clear that there are things that are sin & lists many but with gaming & entertainment you're getting more into individual or more personal freedoms, weaknesses, issues of maturity & understanding. The point you made about what we store in our heart (Luke 6:43-45) I believe is probably one of the keys to this. What are we holding dear, what are we treasuring in our heart? What is the eyes of our heart beholding? For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also (Matt 6:21). Treasuring our personal entertainment more than God or substituting God with our entertainment & hobbies, letting them seep into our hearts to where it's robbing away fellowship with him would be sin.
You highlight some really valuable points! It's an ongoing challenge to be alert and thinking, isn't it? Thanks so much for watching and adding your thoughts! -Paeter
I just came across your channel, I like your content, I like that you debate and explain your answer instead of yelling it out and being a jerk. I'm subscribing to your channel!
Thank you! I actually prefer "discuss" over "debate" (since outside the academic world "debate" has angry connotations, though I can see you recognize the distinction). But yeah, my hope is that we can chat about things and at least understand each other better even if we don't come to agreement. Thanks again! -Paeter
I think one good way to look at the morality of videogames, is to look at one of the oldest games in existance. Chess.
You have an army, your have an army against you, you sacrifice your pawns lives so your knight can make that grand checkmate. Your only goal is to simply win with what pieces you have. Not to remove all the opponents pieces on the board out of anger, but just to win the game. And even if you do adopt the strategy of wanting to remove all of your opponents pieces from the board in a wooden genocide, it's still nothing more than just a game and it's a strategy you want to try to implimwnt to win the game.
Even if you do win a game of chess with that checkmate while causing minimal casualties to your opponents pieces, or if you completely whipe all of your opponents pieces on the board to back the king into a corner for a checkmate, it's still all just a game and a strategy to win the game...
Now other things you have said that I have brought into my own consideration... I remember I once when I was younger, i got a speeding ticket that I contested as being complete bull crap. The day I got home from after getting that ticket, I loaded up GTA and immediately started taking out my anger on genociding the cops in the game. I did it out of anger and wanting some kind of vengeance. It felt good, it really did. But even before hearing this vid, I realised that wasn't healthy. That was not using gaming how it should be ment for. I didn't do it out of wanting just to have fun from running from the police in a videogame, but I did it out of wanting vengeance, kill the police npcs in vengeance, feeling a sense of vindication from shooting them and blowing up their cruisers... I've know for a while that was wrong and I played the game for the wrong reason...
I love everything that you said on this. 1. Because I am a chess player. and 2. Because I had that same experience with anger and video games except i would rip people's heads off on Mortal Kombat.
GTA (any GTA) gets old pretty fast if you just kill cops and innocents. It's not fulfilling.
@@davidleewrath6919 Definitely better to play the story or multiplayer in an environment that isn't toxic.
Paeter you are wise and blessed with the gift of communication. It’s no wonder God is using you through this channel!! You navigated this topic beautifully and more importantly used scripture to support your arguments. Tremendous stuff here and very thought provoking!
Thank you so much for your encouragement, Dan! -Paeter
Finally, a christian geek LIKE ME! THANK YOU!
My pleasure, Kyle! Thanks for watching! -Paeter
"Mind reading is not one of the spiritual gifts" is probably my all-time favorite quote ever!
Lol! Thanks! -Paeter
Big D&D/Pathfinder fan! currently I'm a dwarf monk who is neutral chaotic. xD
Whoa, the world is your oyster as far as choice is concerned! That's usually similar to what I gravitate to, because I like the flexibility. "Don't put me in a box!" Happy gaming! -Paeter
So, I was curious. I have this reading plan on the bible app called "Satan's lies, God's replies" and yesterday, the lie was "Oh, I can watch bad stuff as long as I don't do it." And the verse they uaed was Psalms 101:3 "I will not set before my eyes anything that is worthless. I hate the work of those who fall away; it shall not cling to me." What do you think about that?
I don't think that's quite the best application of that verse because they don't clarify what they mean by "bad stuff". I think in principle we should avoid spending time on things that are worthless. But someone who wants to most effectively evangelize cult members had better read up on that cult and understand it! That process will involve taking a close look at some worthless things. So there can be good reasons for putting "bad stuff" in front of us.
In the context of that verse in Psalm 101, David is expressing the purity in life he is choosing to adopt, and in both the verse before and the verse after, the issue surrounds the contents of David's heart. So his commitment to not set anything worthless before his eyes should be understood as a commitment to keep worthless things from affecting his integrity and character.
I hope that's helpful! Thanks for the great question!
-Paeter
@@christiangeekcentral bad stuff is actually specific because it uses context on all things evil in fact which is inscribed on our hearts that turning any way from Christ like playing games that are in fact anti-christ so that is a sin and that is wrong that is true that evil things don't cling to people who have a walk with God
Dont set your eyes before verses in the bible that speak about incest and rape then, like with Lot and his daughters who got him drunk to have sex with him. Do u see the problem here? If we apply the verse to the bible, reading that is a sin. Dont cherry pick verses, read it in context. Obviously reading the bible is not a sin, read the verse in context before making conclusions.
God bless everyone and have a good day!
Thank you! -Paeter
Wow Thanks for the info 😊 as a Christian I have always said games are not evil anything can be evil depending on your mentality and how you use it inrl 😆
That's true! Thanks for watching! -Paeter
I'm not nearly as religious as you but I've always been a bit uncomfortable playing an evil role in a game. Like I'm spiritually descending into some dark place.
Well, religious or not, God has placed at least a basic understanding of good and evil in everyone. (Romans 1:18-20) I'm not sure what that feeling you're experiencing is about, but it's possible God is trying to get your attention about something. I'll pray that you're able to discern whatever that is. Take care. -Paeter
Thought provoking video Paeter :) Also, don't know if that is a stock intro you have, or just made it for this one, but it had me cracking up :D
+Francisco Ruiz
It's the stock intro for all "The Truth Is In There" segments. Glad it didn't creep you out! (You must have a slightly dark sense of humor like my own.)
-Paeter
Very interesting topic, even for a person such as I am ( not very big on religion ).
In stories, you cannot have a redemption or a character arc without what one would consider evil or sinful behavior. I always like to compare this type of plot / stories with the parable of the prodigal son: " thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found". There are pleenty of great movies / games that tackle this kind of morality dilemma are based on some sort of downfall and redemption.
Thanks for your thoughts! -Paeter
I gotta admit, I find it really hard to play as a bad guy when it's a choice in a game, I always says I'm gonna do a bad guy play through but after playing as the good guy and befriending everyone and saving the world....... I find it impossible to go back and be a jerk XD It doesn't always stop me from clicking the renegade button once in a while juuuust to see what happens.
+Uruveilhobbit I can relate. Depending on my mood, being bad can feel "icky" for me. But if the game is frustrating me in some way I find it a little easier to take a "burn the world" approach. :-) -Paeter
You don't feel comfortable making bad decisions in Skyrim because it's evil
Very insightful, you have been blessed with wisdom! Godd bless you :)
Thanks so much for watching and for the encouragement! -Paeter
9:00 yeah exactly like doing the g*noc*de route in Undertale for example if you choose to kill every monster you find in the game it paints you as the evil one and you even are called the villain numerous times, by the end of the game you have to find and execute every monster in hotland and it took me like 40 minutes my first playthrough the game at that point gets unfun and genuinely shows you being evil is just bad and that you should live your life as a good person if you don't turn back before the end of the game you quite literally cannot reverse your actions and the game will forever have a bad ending if you try to play for the good ending it's very interesting and a must play to be honest
Hey Paeter, i got a question, what do you think of Romans 14:21? I feel like I have a misunderstanding of it and was wondering if you could help. Heres my example: Does this say that a believer should never do something(food, drink, entertainment) that has caused a friend of their's to sin? And if so to what extent of "things" should we as christians avoid doing to protect others? I feel like almost anything could be viewed as a stumbling block to an extent.
Great question, Phil! The verses surrounding this one are about avoiding activity that, in the act of doing, will cause someone else to stumble (meaning "strike an obstacle" or "induce to sin"). See verses 13, 15 & 20. In 13 we're told not to put a stumbling block in the way of a brother. In verse 15, our brother is potentially grieved by what we eat. In 20 we see potential for our brother to stumble because of what we eat. The pattern is "we do something, they stumble as a result". So 21 should be interpreted in line with that, rather than assuming it means "don't do something, even privately, that would make another believer stumble if they were to do it."
Now add some other verses that are in the context. Verse 20 says every food is indeed clean. Verse 16 tells us not to let what we regard as good (such as food in this case) be spoken of as though it were evil. Then right after the verse in question, verse 22 says "The faith you have" (meaning the faith to eat any food) "keep between yourself and God".
So adding all of this up, the consistent interpretation seems to be that we should avoid partaking in activity around our brothers and sisters who think of it as sinful. However, we are free to partake in these non-sinful activities privately or among those believers who will not be offended. At the same time, we should look for opportunities to persuade our brothers that the activity in question is not sinful.
In my own private life, I avoid playing certain games around certain people, and avoid encouraging them to play/view things they believe are sinful. And in my online ministry, when it comes to game streaming for example, I try to let people know what games I am playing or am about to play so they can investigate the title and decide for themselves if they want to keep watching.
But I also look for opportunities to share my conclusions about some questionable types of content, and what I see the Bible saying on those topics.
I hope that's helpful!
-Paeter
@@christiangeekcentral ua-cam.com/video/_CtDUpgk8qk/v-deo.html. ua-cam.com/video/hbYGAWwIdEg/v-deo.html
@@christiangeekcentral we Christians shouldn't be play games
I don't see support for the prohibition of games in scripture, but I do appreciate you putting your thoughts on the table. If you'd like to talk about this in more detail you can reach me at paeter(at)spiritblade(dot)com. -Paeter
Still pondering these questions myself but I guess one thing I think about is every movie no matter how godly or wholesome will have an actor playing the villain. It is essential so should these actors be required to hate their experience working on the movie? I don't think so. I think it's a heart thing. Why do you enjoy it. Are you sadistic or are you enjoying the competition or comedy? The why will often point to the correct answer.
I agree! It ultimately comes down to a heart issue. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! -Paeter
Hey, you give a nice insight in to your motivations as far as your personal religion relates to motivations in rpg's (table or otherwise). That said I did zone out in your scribture segment maybe because I'm an atheist. I discovered years ago that I'm incapable of playing "Evil" characters and gave up trying years ago. But in my opinion if your capable of recognizing "evil intent" in games (or irl for that matter) your are save and should just enjoy playing your game.
+Da Frank Thanks for the encouragement! Yeah, it was an especially long video and the channel is also geared toward Christians, so I can see how it might be easy for some folks to zone out for at least those two reasons. (Maybe I should have done a two-parter?)
Thanks for watching and commenting! -Paeter
I played Black ops a few times I preferred the zombie one over the one with living people because zombies are already dead so I didn't feel as bad about killing them. Im really not a fan of playing evil characters.
Yeah, it's definitely not for everyone. Thanks for watching! -Paeter
by the way, whose getting kingdom come: Deliverence!! im excited for this one.
I'm VERY curious, but I'm wondering if all the "realism" will just translate into a game that's too hard for my crappy skills. Waiting for more info and reviews on that one. Looks cool, though! -Paeter
christiangeekcentral I subscribed to your channel brother in Christ. But i think itll be a nice change, not depending on magic and being more tedious, ill def let you know how it goes!! but that wont be a few days till after it's release. ill be sure to go through your videos, the beginning to this one had me cracking up lol God Bless You.
Glad to entertain! And thank you for subscribing! I hope you enjoy the other content you find here! I look forward to hearing your thoughts on Kingdom Come: Deliverance! -Paeter
great video! really makes you think.
+Adam Lamb Thanks, Adam! Glad to be useful!
-Paeter
Oh and also art models life so if you are playing evil games then you are finding their view point on life which is bad
Btw evil = evil so when games tech you bad theology to tell you bad is good or it's fine no it is bad theology and it is totally bad
I love elder scrolls, and one of my favorite roles to play is a theif. Sneaking around, picking locks, stealing from shop, it's just a game. It's role playing. A game is not real life, your playing a ROLE, it's not really who you are. As long as your not acting on those impulses as your true, real life personality, then I don't see any harm. Your doing it for the sake of creating a fictional story. Not your actually life that you will be judged on. Your victims are not real and you are not actually hurting any real humans by stealing a soul stone from some alchemy shop in skyrim.
I know that I could never break into someone's home and steal their possessions not only I would feel majorly guilty for doing it, but because I know God doesn't want me to do it. But when it comes to a game, it's just a role that your doing for fun and not something you actually WANT to engage in real life.
Ooh! That reminds me! I'm running low on soul stones and playing a hybrid thief! Thanks for the tip! :-) -Paeter
@@christiangeekcentral no problem! Lol
"Its just a game." If I had a nickel every time I heard a Christian say this when they do sinful things in video games... The real question you should ask yourself is why are you entertaining yourself simulating evil in a video game? Are you a Christian? If you are then you know God hates stealing. Why do you think God would be Ok with you doing something in a virtual world that he vehemently hates? Could you imagine yourself in Heaven, there in the presence of God and pretending to sin? I hope not. God is not Ok with people pretending to be evil in games. Its hypocritical for a person to say they are a Christian and yet entertain themselves in a video game doing the very things they say they hate and would never do in real life. Indulging sin in a fantasy world is still sin. If you are are a Christian then why don't you apply your Christian values to all parts of your life?
YOU HERETIC.
No, it's just as you said. It's just a game. A cathartic experience, if you will. OK, wanna steal? You'll be shunned by the community, guards will hunt you down... games aren't as easy if you play the bad guy. Particularly when you just started.
@@davidleewrath6919 Why should a Christian want a "cathartic experience" of pretending to be evil? The very enemy of God has manifest itself in a virtual world to become a playground for His children to indulge the fantasy of being evil. It sounds very sick minded and hypocritical if you ask me. And why again should a Christian want to be entertained in these ways? We're supposed to love righteousness and abstain from even the APPEARANCE of evil (1 Thessalonians 5 : 22). Stealing things or murdering people in a video game is the appearance of evil. If you're not abstaining from that and call yourself a Christian then you're either a hypocrite, unsaved or so ignorant of the truth that you've created God in your own understanding, perspective and image and have completely ignored God's way in place of your own.
Games are role play, so of course Christians can play the evil role....saying otherwise would be like telling Christian movie actors that they can not accept movie roles where they play a villian.
+Bobby A
That's a very fitting comparison! Thanks!
-Paeter
The problem is what Christians choose to entertain themselves by and pretending to be evil in a video game is not the fruit of the spirit. It is the fruit of evil.
Plus if what you say is what you store in your heart you might want to watch what you believe because you don't want to seem to test your thoughts if they are bad but I don't think some of what you say is spiritually correct
Very good points to ponder.
Thanks for watching! -Paeter
Soooooo goooooood. Thank you for sharing. ~ 7ohn
My pleasure! Thanks for your encouragement! It means a lot to me! -Paeter
PS sorry for not using good punctuation I do that to make the point I'm thinking about
I can appreciate that. However as a reader it does make your points and reasoning difficult to understand and respond to. Which is why I haven't had much to say in response to your recent posts. But I do appreciate your desire to honor God with your life. Thanks for watching and being willing to share your thoughts. -Paeter
1 John 4:1-6
Working on your logic, if I understand you correctly, it would be ok to be entertained by pornographic material, say fifty shades. Correct me if I misunderstood your logic.
No, my comments here are only meant to be applied to typical "evil" behavior in video games, such as violence and the similar behaviors mentioned in this video. Pornography and nudity in film/tv, because of how different they are from video game portrayals of other sins, and how differently they affect us, I treat in different videos. I've made two on that topic, the first is here ua-cam.com/video/RRMVHXKvO5w/v-deo.html and the second one here ua-cam.com/video/F4Ug4OfA-Vk/v-deo.html . Thanks! -Paeter
A lot of games have evil spirits in them actually
I don't think I understand what you mean. Do you mean that a lot of games include evil spirits as characters, or that evil spirits inhabit the disc/cartridge/download, or something else? -Paeter
@@christiangeekcentral no i mean they literally come out of there. Unfortunately I deal with it all the time I play a lot of the same games you play but I deal with them everywhere anyways I'm constantly doing Deliverance
@@christiangeekcentral I don't know it's something to do with the sound certain sounds they inhabit certain sounds I really don't know how to explain it cuz I don't really fully understand what I'm going through yet
@@Whyyy_Kayy... Thanks for clarifying. I haven't heard of that kind of thing happening before. Are you connected to a Bible-based local church that is helping you sort through your experiences? Someone trained in both spiritual deliverance and psychological matters might be very helpful, based on what you're describing. -Paeter
@@christiangeekcentral do you know anything about New Age? Meditation and things like that, the opening of the third eye, is a very real thing. I somehow got caught up in practices such as that. Then i went and got baptised and saved, and only now am I beginning to understand a vision I had 4 years ago. No i dont associate with thr church, for I feel the xhurches around me are too divided. However I do pray, read the bible and talk to Jesus. As far as the psychological aspect of the situation goes, I highly doubt there is a "doctor" spiritually educated enough to help with my problem, for the greater majority of them are carnal minded. I find it strange when I ask a church about deliverance and they dont do it also And just to think this all started with astrology. Since i was 15 i had a real gift(not anymore) for reading the stars. Ive done a lot of deliverance.
I lost it at the blood capsules. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
That's actually grape jam! -Paeter
play star wars knights of the old republic for xbox :D
I have, actually! Went largely light side and then totally turned on everybody and went dark side at the end (after seeing the light ending and reloading my save). And the recent movie had me thinking about trying KOTOR 2 again, although on a PC with the mods this time. -Paeter
Having a power ego is actually bad and the Bible says he is in control
I'm assuming you made a video about Doom games lol
Yep! -Paeter
As you suggested I'll tell you what I think of this video here.
First I used to think like you. I played assassins, mages and even demonist in WoW as a Christian. I'll tell you why I changed my mind and repented.
I want to distinguish having an evil role like in a play (ex playing Juda in a life of Jesus play) and playing an evil character to have fun. The question is what is the message carried ? Does Evil win ? Is it seen as good to murder or use magical spells ?
I honestly think using something that God despises to entertain yourself is bad.
End of part 1
I think you'll agree that murder is as much a sin as using sorcery (Lev 19.26) or fornication or homosexuality or lying or stealing etc
If you are consistent with what you believe, you'll therefore find nothing wrong with playing an hypothetical game where the goal is to find virtual homosexual intercourse for example, right ? You don't do it for real anyway right ?
There are no reason to think that sins done virtually are sometimes OK sometimes terribly evil. Sins are never OK
End of part 2
Generally speaking, while we aren't slaves of the law anymore, Jesus actually demands a higher morale standards. Matthew 5 is explaining that a lot. Envying in heart is adultery, hating is murder etc.
Don't be mistaken. In Romans 14, it is only about things that aren't actually sins. "Eating meat coming from false gods sacrifice is not a sin but you shouldn't force someone who thinks this is a sin to eat. It would a sin for him because he believes this is a sin."
It doesn't apply to things that are sins in absolute where context is irrelevant. Say murder.
I want to end this comment with this quote from Paul : "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." 1 Corinthians 10:31
Do you really glorify God when you entertain yourself with murder and witchcraft? I personally don't think so.
Being entertained is not a sign of something good. "The heart of the man is evil"
Thank you for reading me
Thanks for your time and thought on this subject. I can definitely agree that participating in simulation of a sinful activity out of a desire in the heart to experience that sin is a problem. But as I tried to express in the video, there are several reasons a person could mechanically direct their digital avatar to carry out fictional portrayals of sin that have nothing to do with a desire of the heart to commit that sin.
Your comments seem to assume that a person who plays a video game in which the player character sins actually has some related form of that sin motivating them to do that in the game. Let me put a statement on the table in an effort to better understand your position:
"It is impossible for a player to mechanically manipulate an avatar to carry out fictional portrayals of sin without the player having a real desire to commit some related form of sin himself."
Does this statement accurately represent your position on this issue?
-Paeter
christiangeekcentral sorry if I wasn't clear enough but no it doesn't.
Let me try to rephrase.
I believe that being entertained by doing something sinful is sinful. As you said in your video you could perfectly be killing people in a game only to enjoy some mechanics of the game. Myself when I played a rogue I didn't feel a real desire for murder in real life. The problem is elsewhere : Do I really glorify God in all things (as Paul commands us to do) when I'm summoning demons and killing people in a game ?
I still play video/board games but I now filter out what is not glorifying God
Thank you for taking the time to answer me
I love vido games and im a christian
Your right
Thanks for watching! -Paeter
And god also said to question everything another words he whans as to lurn as much as we can wthere its some thing dark or light that you r lurning
YES!! THANK YOU!!
My pleasure! Thanks for watching! -Paeter
@@christiangeekcentral :) God bless brother!!
@@commandercody7594 Thank you! You too! -Paeter
Mind reading isnt good bro reading your actions and others reading your actions shows how to live ok like you said good tree good fruit bad tree bad fruit I don't have to read your mind
You have a troll in your comments but anyways i was thinking on this and came up with a scenario that makes things more clearer. So say a kid 8-10yrs old is going too play with his toys he has a Spider man and Hulk as the Heroes and Venom and The leader as villains now in his mind he already has a story in mind for these toys/characters, the story is this. Venom and leader team up and decide too attack a military base too steal a gamma weapon now spider man and Hulk who where near by are going too stop them the symbiote in venom realizes how strong hulk is and leaves Eddie Brock and latches onto the Hulk and with this new power thinks he will conquer the world so Hulk kills the leader and kills spider man. No adult is telling this kid you cant play with your toys and make them fight its a sin because you are playing a evil character Venom Hulk now your evil and god hates you. Ugh no playing with toys is so similar too playing games same concept different delivery system, kids play with the toy villains all the time its no different in a video game. This wasn't towards you Paeter its towards some of the comments also 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22 is referring too rejecting false prophecy hes telling us to test these prophecies and if they are good hold onto them and if they are false, evil reject them. Kind or appearance means the form of the prophecy like is it end times prophecy or is it a prophecy over someones life or a command, or wisdom.I thought the same as you but i did some research and there are a lot of people who agree with that interpretation.
God Bless-Nick
Thanks for your thoughts! I appreciate the illustration! As for the interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22, I'm with you on that. When I use that passage in the context of discerning our way through entertainment, I'm not meaning to say that discerning entertainment is the intent of the author. Instead, I'm just saying that the principle of discerning our way through questionable things is established here(in the originally intended context of prophecy), and I think carries over by way of application (not interpretation) into the context of entertainment. Sorry that I didn't make that clear in the video. Thanks again! -Paeter
@@christiangeekcentral Oh I see!
Thanks-Nick
Ok everything you are sayis in every way is evil means it = evil