They were both to blame. But Jamie makes my blood boil. I don't think he ever truly loved Cathy, there's so many red flags in his songs, how Cathy is the story he should write, he could be in love with someone like her(later clarifying he NEEDS to be in love with SOMEONE), immediately wanting other women RIGHT after getting married and then cheating on her, saying that he could never rescue her(which sounds so condescending), and DIVORCING HER THROUGH A LETTER. Cathy's biggest problems are that she's jealous and insecure which are more sympathetic. And even though she was jealous of Jamie's success she still supported him for most of their relationship. Ultimately, they were too immature to be married.
Agreed about "I Could Never Rescue You" being such a condescending Dear John letter. Like, really? You're gonna pin all the blame on her? He never even admits to the cheating that Kathy suspected was going on.
@@EmeraldAshesAudio by that point they'd been to therapy, I'm sure the cheating had come out in the wash somewhere. I don't think the song is him pinning blame on her, it's just him admitting he can't do it any more. By that definition, Cathy puts all the blame on him in "Still Hurting".
THANK you. You bring up another great point- Cathy supported Jamie a LOT more than he supported her, and I might even dare say that she was more invested in their relationship than he was. I mean, is she really at fault for getting upset in “See I’m Smiling” when he tells her that he can’t stay in town long enough to see her star in a show on her birthday? Is that really too much to ask... of your husband?
No, not really. It might be. But also it might have it's roots in not getting enough from relationship. It might take you to the point when you need this positive attention so much you just can resist the possibility of getting some. It doesn't mean that only the other person is to blame. But still: both added something to the situation. Especially if one or both are unable to communicate what they are lacking.
@@bip5395 You simply need to end the relationship BEFORE cheating! If you don't do that you're a FUCKING jerk!!! It's all on YOU!!!! The other person has 0 fault!!!! No matter what the situation is!!! 🤷♀️
True, but you can decide whether you want to go to couples therapy, or simply talk to one another and use communication. Its their decision that they chose to commit adultery to "solve" their need for attention not the significant others. I'm not say you're making excuses just that theirs other options than adultery and thats always going to be their independent chose.
Personally, I blame Jamie more. I was kinda wish washy until A Miracle Would Happen. The fact that he was contemplating cheating (or at the very least was upset that he was married because he couldn’t be with anyone different) the second after he got married really rubbed me the wrong way. (just my opinion)
I feel the same. It was like after marriage they saw each other so differently 💀 in nobody needs to know there is a verse about how difficult it had become to hold on to each other at that stage km their relationship, but Jaime had pretty much given up on her way before he cheated...Cathy was willing to try and change,fix what was broken ,but he wasn't. Then there was the miscommunication earlier.....and you kinda agree with Jaime how they are too broken to be fixed after Cathy's breakdown in see I'm smiling ,but you can't blame her for having it... in I'm a part of that and summer in Ohio,you see how different their thoughts are after marriage, in I'm a part of that,you see how she's trying really hard,convincing herself that they're still fixable, that is if there's anything to fix...........I swear as much as there's stuff to learn from this story,it's still kinda depressing to go through every time.....
They are both at fault for the breakdown of the relationship...Jamie encourages Cathy but doesn't support her...if he did, he wouldn't have left his wife on her f-ing birthday...for another party with the same 20 jerks he already knows...he was already a successful writer so didn't necessarily need to network all the time but by that point he was probably already cheating due to Cathy being away and getting attention elsewhere...she was jealous of his success but also tired of playing second fiddle at his networking events...but she was comfortable with that until she wasn't...ultimately...Jamie was searching for women even before he cheated...it's a challenge...no dude it's a marriage so really as Kat said, he needed someone...that person was probably not Cathy...and then he cheated...no excuses for that...end the relationship before it gets that far...
I think Jamie cheated as a result of growing resentment towards Cathy because of her emotional dependence on him. He was probably at the point where, like Kat said, he just needed ANYTHING to get rid of her or just break free. Not that that justifies what he did at ALL but just wanted to shed some insight to the likely reason why Jamie did some of what he did.
@@karlyk7429 That's an interesting take on it...especially as we don't know when the cheating started...I guess that is one of the story flaws, with each song being only a snapshot of where they are at that point of their relationship and we don't know what happened in between...another flaw in the show is the line '41 seasons' in The Schmeul Song - last time I checked there were 4 seasons in a year so that would be roughly 10 years - the line should have been 41 years or 164 seasons! That frustrates me 😆
@@karlyk7429 Thanks definitely an interesting take on it... and I agree that Jamie wanted to break free but he also talks about how he wants to sleep with other women right after they got married...
I wouldn’t say that Cathy was jealous of Jamie’s success per se. I think it’s just that her love emotional need is time. So ya know-she resented how much attention he gave his career or something. But I see what your saying.
@@pandahead4150 I guess I come at that viewpoint from what she says in 'See I'm Smiling' which could just be something said in the heat of the moment of an argument but it also feels, to me, sincerely her heart pouring out: '...and the point is, Jamie That you can't spend a single day That's not about you and you and nothing but you Marvelous novelist, you! Isn't he wonderful, just twenty-eight! The savior of writing! You and you and nothing but you Miles and piles of you Pushing through windows and bursting through walls en route to the sky! And I...' * Attacking him with sarcasm 'the saviour of writing'. * The jealousy that I read into it 'Pushing through windows and bursting through walls en route to the sky! And I...' It's the 'And I' part. She doesn't verbalise the next line and bursts into tears...to me she was about to say and I am left behind or a failure...it's her insecurity as an actress that I read as jealousy of him. But that is the best part of art and theatre - interpretation. Different meanings to different people and neither right or wrong :)
I feel they were too misaligned from the start & weren't meant to be together for a lifetime. They could both find better partners that have more aligned compatibility.
I blame Jaime way more. Jaime received success super early- no shame in that, but he became unsympathetic to fellow artists who struggled for work and accolades. Y'know- his wife. Dragging her to his release parties celebrating his success and being surrounded by women he acknowledged were flirting with him would wound anyone. But she was just supposed to sit there and be the writer's wife? Yes, you should be supportive and stuff it sometimes, but how long was she supposed to grin and bear it? Cathy went to Ohio because it was the only place she could get work in her field. A field he encouraged her to stay in because he knew she was talented- she just hadn't gotten her big break yet. And towards the decline in their relationship when he was cheating on her, but she had grown to communicate ("see I'm smiling? That means I'm happy that you're here"), he wouldn't fess up to his cheating or ease in his promotion tour. By that point he was only willing to accept her if she could catch up.
I’m on Cathy’s team. She was willing to admit her mistakes, move on, and be better. Jamie on the other hand, blamed everything on Cathy (like he says in I Couldn’t Save You), even though he cheated on her. If he would have admitted his mistakes and tried to become better, they could’ve grown together and stayed together.
Cathy never admits her mistakes... "Covered with scars I did nothing to earn". And clearly Jamie didn't just abandon the marriage without trying to salvage it ("it's not about another shrink"). I don't think either of them could see how they were hurting the other because they were so toxic for each other. They both felt the other wasn't meeting their needs. The breakdown of their marriage can't be pinned on any one person or action.
@@meganjane3809 I see your point, but Cathy did say “I’ll own when I was wrong” in See I’m Smiling. They both did bad things, but I think that if she and Jamie owned when they were wrong and moved on (like she wanted to do) there is a chance they could be together.
She doesn't take the blame either. She never acknowledges her faults. In Still Hurting, she completely blames him. He should have done what he did, cheating or leaving her with a note, but they were both at fault. Equally if you ask me.
Team Cathy ALL the way, without even questioning. She was a little insecure? Yes. Was she frustrated about her career? Yes. Did she wish to taste a little of what Jamie was experiencing? Absolutely. However, she supported him greatly until she felt that success was consuming Jamie. She “suffocated” him because Jamie traded his relationship to living his dream. And that’s kinda ok I guess. Until you failed talking to your partner about what’s going on with you, and preferred cheating on Cathy instead of talking to her first. That’s what any reasonable person would do. Cathy was insecure, yes, but what she was afraid of was what happened, EXACTLY as she anticipated. So she wasn’t so out of place. She knew somehow that the lack of balance between both careers would break their relationship. Cathy knew it from the start and she reflects on it in the first song ( I don’t remember the title). Jamie was the only one who tried to convince her that everything would be ok, and then he goes and cheats. And he was such an ass to leave, explanation free. It was the most selfish thing to do because that made the other feel it was their mistake. That’s so messed up. And what I understood was that the other woman was waiting for Jamie to break up with Cathy. Disgusting. I can never be on his team, sorry.
Yes!!!!This! And the fact that Jamie sings a hole Song about how "happy" he is to be married. Right after HE proposed to Cathy. Like...oh yeah... I can't sleep with other women anymore....I guess that's okay?
I completely agree with you on everything you said!!! I believe the song you are talking about that Cathy sings is I’m a part of that. I absolutely hold Jamie accountable. He was encouraging the flirting between him & other girls & even in the song A Miracle would happen, he admitted that he did nothing to discourage them from doing it then freaked out as Cathy would appear. I felt love from him to her in The Schmuel Song, but he was completely different after that. Cheating isn’t ok & the fact that he was feeling the need to drift his attention & contemplate cheating should’ve been a sign for him to end the marriage rather than continue to break Cathy’s heart.
Agreed 100%. Even if they both had been equally at fault in the relationship (which I don't think they were), who thinks it's acceptable to cheat and then end a marriage by leaving a f***ing note?! They both had communication issues, but Jamie wasn't even willing to meet Cathy halfway, and he treated her like trash.
Wish I could “like” this more times!!! Great analysis. It’s such a shame people immediately blame the person who gets cheated on, instead of the cheater. Reminds me of that Voltaire quote about learning who’s really in power by learning who you’re not allowed to criticize...
I’m on the side of: they never should have gotten together. The only reason Jamie was interested in Kathy, was because he wanted to be in a relationship with someone different than all the Jewish women before. I think he lived a very sheltered life and was often told that he was so great and talented that when he met Kathy, who didn’t really have much going, it stroked his ego. With Kathy she seemed to have been surrounded by people who had nothing going for them so meeting Jamie, who was becoming so successful so quickly, she immediately fell for him because he was something better than what she had before. Sure that would be fine if that was it, but when Kathy is continually struggling with her career and Jamie is basically supporting both of them, that Kathy becomes financially and emotionally reliant on him. For an example, he paid for new headshots and stuff and she can’t even book a gig. That could be seen as encouraging but Jamie uses that against her later by saying that he’s been there helping her along, why can’t she just go to a party that she doesn’t want to go to. And when he cheats, it can almost be explained away by, him feeling restricted by her. But if anything, Kathy is also stuck because she has become so reliant on him that she can’t let go. Even though she has a job in Ohio, she can’t afford to live by herself anymore. Especially because as she’s getting older, her self esteem is plummeting even faster because there are younger and prettier women auditioning for roles. And while she is dealing with those issues, Jamie is out cheating and making Kathy believe that all their problems are because of her. I don’t think either of them were emotionally mature enough to save their relationship much less have the relationship as long as they had.
To clarify further - Yes, I agree with Kat about Cathy's shortcomings and Cathy is not blameless. But Jamie is like, legitimately a mysogynistic piece of shit
i’m definitely team cathy. not only is there no excuse for cheating, but she was always so supportive of jamie’s career until the very end and jamie never did anything to support hers, which is really evident in cathy’s second song.
Even though Cathy felt bad for her career not going as planned, she still seemed to be supportive of Jamie and wanted him to be happy. I felt the clingy nature only cane out because he wasn't communicating with her and seemed distance. So, I'm with you, team. Cathy. Jamie has very few redeeming qualities
Jamie literally noped out of supporting Cathy when it started to slightly inconvenience him, when she was always there sucking it up just to be a good girlfriend/wife. Sure she had her issues as well but Jamie sucks the most
What really gets to me is that he cheats on her before he visits her in Ohio, which means while she was trying to compromise over and over again in See I'm Smiling, he was being a particularly garbage person. She accuses him of cheating (and she is right), and then says 'no I'm not, no I'm not', and the only way for that to make grammatical sense, in that breath he must have tried to blame her with some variation of 'YOU are wrong' or 'YOU are crazy'. That makes him a gaslighter, and gaslighting is a subtle form of emotional abuse, so in my book he is irredeemable garbage. Also, as much as Shiksa Goddess is a great song, it isn't a song about how amazing Cathy is. It is really impersonal and he is essentially telling her 'I don't care about anything about you, just don't be jewish.' Which is just eeewwwww. It wouldn't surprise me if it is a big part of why Cathy has self esteem issues. To sum up, Jamie is just the worst.
i'll never forget a fact i heard about this show and i can't remember who posted it but cathy's name isn't spoken until like 5 songs in but jamie is the very first word of the show. i think that speaks a lot about who cathy and jamie are as people.
That’s why I love this show. I learn something new every time I hear it. Now that you mention it he doesn’t say her name, just affectionate nickname, until the end of the Schmuel Song when he is comforting and supporting her and perhaps for the first time seeing her as something more than a pretty non Jewish girl, but someone that he can potentially love. He says her name once in The Next Ten Minutes before he asks her to marry him. Then he says her name a lot. In a Miracle Would Happen he says her name in a few lines but mainly repeating the chorus “it would be me and Cathy and nothing else would matter” Even though Cathy is now his wife and is more than a pretty face, there are just so many other pretty faces too but he is trying to convince himself that it should just be him and Cathy so he repeats her name to remind himself of that. Jaime also repeats her name constantly in If I Didn’t Believe In You and the repetitions increase as he gets angrier and angrier at her lack of communication. He’s trying to connect with her, to make her see things from his perspective, and her silence makes it seem as though all of his efforts of supporting her(at least what he thinks of as supporting. Maybe he got tired of singing song like the Schmuel Song to make her happy. If nothing else he is still financially supporting her at this time) aren’t being appreciated so why even bother being faithful to someone who doesn’t appear to care about your needs? The last time he says it is in the beginning of Nobody Needs to Know “Cathy is waiting” and “Cathy Just Look at Me Now” he can no longer just say her name to remind himself of his love for her. He has to move on because that love is gone. Look at him now, he is presumably with Elise, the only name he mentions in I Could Never Rescue You. Signaling he has fully moved on from Cathy to a new pretty face that he now loves, Elise. Am I thinking about this too deeply or is the name thing done on purpose, either way it brings a whole other layer to this show
I think the only song where Cathy doesn’t say Jamie’s name is When You Come Hims to Me. She also doesn’t say his name in I Can Do Better Than That but instead names people from her past who she thinks are beneath her. Maybe that also means something.
@@musicallynerdy8860 that's an incredible analysis!! considering that the two are rarely singing to each other (their stories are moving in different directions. the audience pretty much just sees the two of them on their own) i think the name thing is certainly on purpose. the audience needs to be reminded that these two people are together, remember that their story is pretty much the same even though jamie and cathy are not seen together on stage as one (the exception is 'the next ten minutes') jamie's name being the first word in the show just goes to show how much cathy thinks she needs to depend on jamie, even though he left her. like you said, jamie consistent reciting of cathy's name in desperation towards the end of his timeline can be mirrored to cathy's beginning as well. i hope this makes sense. i appreciate your excellent contribution. this show really is incredible and it's rare to find a work of art that communicates such a complex relationship.
Jamie's name is the first song in the show, but only because the director chose an alternative timeline. The end of the relationship is the first scene, but the last moment of the relationship.
You: Tough for me to pick a side That's the beauty of it, It's both. Yes, Jamie was a cheating douche bag. But Cathy should never have married him. She was teeming with resentment about his success even before he proposed. "I will not be the girl who gets asked how it feels to be trotting along at the genius's heels." and Jamie his it right on the head with "I will not fail because you can't win." Also, he uses the cheating as a means to end the relationship, once he knew there was no more hope for them. He sings "I could love someone like you" (or whatever the actual words are there) twice in the show, which probably means he just wants someone to love, he doesn't want specifically Cathy. That combined with Cathy's side, it was pretty doomed from the beginning.
I relate way more to Jamie but I’m 100% team Cathy like....she automatically wins by not cheating? But they weren’t well suited for each-other whatsoever.
she isn't upset that his career was more successful, he was upset because he put his career before HER. he cared more about his career than he did their relationship time and time again. she was jealous of his career because he gave it more attention than her, not jealous of him for having a more successful career.
bingo. she literally just wants to get back what she is giving and to him she isn't worth it, because nothing that isn't about him is worth it. which is fine, but then you don't belong in a relationship let alone a marriage.
definitely team cathy. probably only because i have to have some empathy for her lack of success and having constantly being dragged along in jamie’s journey. i think they both had issues they just overall couldn’t fix or get over. but she definitely had some faults that made me frustrated like lack of emotional communication. still no justification for cheating though. if you’re unhappy, BREAK UP!! then again i guess that goes hand in hand with jamie’s character and his commitment issues. i can understand why anyone would pick either side. but overall they were built on a cracked foundation and it was an inevitable fall. made some really great points kat :)
I rewatched the movie when the pandemic started (because I needed a reason to cry, LOL) and have been listening to the soundtrack and I have even encountered a couple of debates on Twitter, so I think that the "collective mind" is going through a Las 5 Years phase!
Ooo, such a controversial issue! I don’t think we’re meant to side completely with either Jamie or Cathy. The show is meant demonstrate the arch of their relationship and why it was doomed to fail. Jamie and Cathy were in different places, and the show highlights that by using opposite timelines for their stories.
Team Cathy bc whatever faults she had, Jamie continuously chose to stay when he recognized that he wasn't 100% in it. He wanted to cheat almost immediately and he then went on to cheat. He lost any right to claim it was her fault after that
Well their relationship started off with Jamie singing about Cathy could literally be anyone and it wouldn't matter to him as long as she wasn't Jewish... not a great starting off point. Then he immediately wanted to sleep with other women after they god married... to me it's clear that Jamie was more in love with the idea of Cathy rather than Cathy herself. I'm definitely in the camp of they were both at fault but the fact that Jamie has an affair tips it towards him more.
I just watched this movie a few weeks ago and loved it! Personally I think they both need serious therapy but I definitely lean more towards Cathy’s side. Cathy is extremely supportive of Jamie’s career and his gaslighting attempt in “If I didn’t Believe in You” did not sit right with me. Also, not only does he CHEAT on her, he is not enough of a man to confront her about it and instead pathetically leaves her a note. Cathy definitely has serious problems, but in “See I’m Smiling” she seems to start to realize this and want to truly connect and talk with her husband about it. Jamie not only can’t appreciate the fact that she’s trying to reach him, he lies about having to go to a meeting that he absolutely did not have to go to. Jamie had no grounds to cheat on his wife of 5 years. If he confronted her about the problems and said he wanted to get a divorce I honestly would probably side with him. Cheating is absolutely unacceptable and since he did it I can’t side with him no matter how problematic Cathy is.
@@ShadowsofthePastTheater I believe that the cut song that was replaced by Shiksa Godess had to be taken down because there were too many real elements from their past relationship in it
The original song was i could be in love with someone like you and it was replaced by shiksa goddess and ngl it’s a bop.you can watch the song I yt if you want he sang it in some concert I’m sure you guys could find it if you wanted to listen. :)
"If I Didn't Believe In You" is the song that changed my opinion on their relationship the most. When I was younger, I actually thought it was more equal blame on each side, but as more time has gone on I've really become Team "Jamie Probably Shouldn't Be With Any Woman For A While". Cathy definitely had communication problems and felt resentment towards him in her solo songs (meaning they're not in the same place at that point) but he straight up tells her that his resentment towards her is his fault ("I will not fail so that you can be comfortable Cathy, I will not lose because you can't win") in a major gaslighting way. Also I feel like "Nobody Needs To Know" definitely hints at the idea that it wouldn't matter where his partner's career is, he's always going to put on a savior complex and then get mad when the other woman wants to be saved.
When watching the Last Five Years, my brain always says: “Why didn’t Jamie just write a stage-play and use Kathy as his muse during the writing and then make plans to preview it off-Broadway?” I mean, he had the success and the connections and already loves to write. 🤷🏽♀️ But then that places a lot of her shortcomings on him again so then I go back to the Ben and Jerry’s and just cry. 😅
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Question... Who is team Jamie? Honestly... I really wanna get to know that person I'm sory, but Jamie was contemplating cheating, two seconds after the wedding... And Cathy was going through very difficult situation, professionally... Jamie got lucky at 23 before his professor read his book...
He wasn't lucky, he was hard-working. :') Cathy losing and her weaknesses brought Jamie to succumbed to his weaknesses he was avoiding such as being unfaithful. You can see that with him looking away from the secretary and the other girls at the parties. They are both at fault anyways. It's just that Jamie became a cheater so he was being blame.
@@siem9329 He was also lucky. People need to stop pretending everything is about merit. Jamie is a man in the United States in a pretty progressive era. There are people who are just as hard working and talented who will never see that type of success, because they don't have the same amount of privilege.
She wouldn’t even go with him to the party? They were both at fault but I feel like Cathy kept pushing him away right after they got married. She didn’t need to go to Ohio if she wanted to put her marriage before her floundering career. So I guess I am team Jamie. But hear me out. 😁 Just because he was sort of disappointed he could not sleep with other women right when he started becoming well known doesn’t mean anything because she didn’t cheat then. He only cheated at the end as a way of getting out of the marriage. Cathy kept taking out her professional insecurities out on him and I think he honestly tried the best he could for as long as he could but she was giving him less and less to work with. Cathy could have found other paths to happiness that didn’t include acting but she just kept making it a big and bigger deal even as his career kept doing better and better. I think he was horrible for not visiting her more when she was away but I also feel like she went on tour when she didn’t even want or need to all in order to catch up to Jamie career wise for no other reason aside from her needing validation. She knew their marriage was in a sensitive place and she decided to leave and not work on their marriage but work on her career. But I am just saying reverse the roles and have the guy constantly feeling not good enough while the women’s career is rising, have the guy be the one leaving rather then working on their marriage and wouldn’t Jamie still being seen as the one at fault? They definitely should have dated longer because I don’t think they should have even gotten married but then there would be no play.☺️💜🎶
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@@shay2218 let's just agree that they were both to blame and that they were a terrible match to begin with...
"I didn't hate Cathy, I just hated the parts of myself that I saw in her" wow that's...relatable Both need to get therapy (everyone needs to get therapy), but I'm still team Cathy because I feel like I can't really blame her for having a low self esteem. Also, Jamie cheated.
They obviously both share responsibility, and one of the most frustrating/tragic parts of the show is that neither of them really accepts responsibility. In "Still Hurting," Cathy says that she's "covered in scars I (she) did nothing to earn," and in "I Could Never Rescue You," Jamie essentially says the end of the relationship was inevitable (the cracks were too wide) which while it is true that the general situation put a lot of strain on their relationship, I'm not sure the obstacles were insurmountable. He proceeds to say, "I could never rescue you, all you ever wanted. All I could do was love you", and while it is true that Cathy displayed signs of wanting a relationship to save her, Jamie's "oh, I tried my best, but it just wasn't enough for you" is frankly poppycock as he is currently cheating on her and can't take the time to support her career (See I'm smiling) even though she has, in fact, been supporting his for a while (Part of That).
I think you have some great points on how this relationship was a mutual failing. However, I still blame Jaime more. Mainly for weaponizing Cathy's insecurities against her to drive a wedge between them, which he then uses to cheat on her. They are each self centered in their own ways, mutually wanting some measure of validation from the other for their own esteem.
I think it's almost impossible to put the blame for the disintegration of a relationship ENTIRELY on one party. However, it's also important to recognise how we often interact with low self-esteem, which makes me have more empathy for Cathy. The formation of low self-esteem is so cyclical because when someone doesn't love themselves, oftentimes we punish them for it by responding to their insecurity with avoidance and distance, and then they love themselves less. There's this weird narrative that offering an insecure and/or insecurely attached person validation is BAD for them, and so people refuse to respond to their partner/friend/family member/coworker/what have you with warmth and empathy. Rather, they distance themselves (like Jamie) so as not to "reward" their behaviour. In "the Schmuel song" and "If I didn't Believe in you", he only ever talks about HIS feelings for her. Insecurity does not exist in a vacuum. He validates their relationship, but never her feelings or her right to feel them. It's not just Cathy driving Jamie away with her neediness; Jamie is reproducing Cathy's insecurity with his poor treatment of her and awful handling of her emotions. Cathy may be needy, but Jamie is kind of an avoidant, gaslighting bag of dicks who doesn't understand self-doubt because he doesn't really experience it. But clearly, I've never thought about it.
I love The Last 5 Years. I love the musical as well as the movie. I like talking about the movie with other people and going in-depth. The use of color in the movie with the happy scenes and the more depressing scenes made the movie amazing. Jeremy Jordans interpretation of Jamie was amazing because I think some of the other Jamie's (other than the original) are so sugar-coated and Jeremy added more depth and feelings to Jamie Character . The vocals in the movie are so amazing. I loved seeing the cameos in the movie like Betsy Wolfe and Jason Robert Brown. The Last 5 years is one of my favorite movies . I believe both were at fault in the relationship. I believe Jamie was happy in the beginning and he loved Cathy. More toward the end though as he was getting more successful, I think he was getting selfish. I mean he did not come to any of Cathy's shows. Cathy on the other hand went to Jamie's parties just to be ignored. Also on Jamies' part, he cheated on her by sleeping and having sex with other women. Also at the end of his part he kept talking about how easy it was to cheat on her. I believe Cathy was also at fault. Cathy had confidence issues. Jamie knew that and told her to be confident in herself and be the “Ambiguous freak you are”.Jamie gave Cathy the chance by giving her “A headshot guy” and “A New backstage”. He could never rescue her and he kept pushing her up the hill. I mean Cathy got left with a letter and a ring from Jamie. I believe how they failed was not communicating with each other about their problems. Maybe if that happened maybe Jamie would not have cheated on her.And there relationship would have not ended and they would still be together. Thanks for coming to my ted talk
I am 100% team Cathy because I've been in her shoes. I've been in relationships where my partner was entirely focused on their career at the expense of everything else. I've been the arm candy at work functions where my partner spent the entire time schmoozing with the same people over and over again while I sat alone by myself. I've supported my partner 100% in everything they wanted to do while my partner completely brushed off the things that made me happy and refused to show up for the things that were important for my career. My partner never cheated (that I'm aware of) but everything else Cathy went through, I've had to deal with. I don't think she was needy for wanting Jamie to spend her birthday weekend with her in Ohio and to see her perform instead of making a quick 5 minute appearance before flying right back to New York to do the same thing he always does. That's not needy. That's just expecting your partner to actually be your partner and not your roommate that you just happen to share a bed with. Like at that point she really was just asking him for the bare minimum and he still couldn't deliver. And she was well within her right to be mad. Also the fact the the whole reason Jamie got with her in the first place is because she isn't Jewish and he wanted to piss off his parents is totally not the right reason to start a relationship. And yes, I have been in that position as well. My last partner was literally Jamie but with science instead of writing and no cheating.
i think that they are both in the wrong. Even if Jamie cheates and guarantees the eventual break up, the relationship was already over before that , since Cathy stopped communicating and kept all her insicurities for herself leaving very little space for love.
"Some people cant get success with their art / Some people never feel love in their heart / Some people cant tell the two things apart" ---> both of them!!
When you brought back “first we take over Broadway and then the world I literally teared up in nostalgia, since I’ve been subbed longer than I can remember omg TL5Y is in my top 5 favorite shows of all time, and it’s by far the most interesting show to analyze if you ask me, since there’s always something new to notice. Now speaking as someone who has been cheated on, and been in an extremely toxic relationship, I’m team Jamie. Both of them were SO at fault. They both caused the divorce, but if we had to point fingers, mine would be at Cathy. There’s no excuse for cheating. Being cheated on is the worst feeling on earth. However, cathys inability to stand on her own two feet, inability to grow and mature, lack of confidence, was the bigger cause of the downfall. Cathy needed to find Cathy before she was with someone like Jamie. Jamie messed up plenty of times, like cheating, leaving her alone on her birthday for a party, and wasn’t always the most supportive. However, if I didn’t believe in you Is my favorite song in the show, and in it he says “no one can give you courage, no one can thicken your skin, I will not fail so you can be comfortable Cathy, I will not lose because you can’t win.” And I think that’s spot on. Cathy was too dependent on Jamie and relied on him for any kind of self worth or validation. That’s not fair to Jamie. She couldn’t handle him being successful while she was struggling. It’s not easy for anyone, but for someone like her I think it was especially hard. So are they both the cause of their own downfall? Yes. But I see more fault on cathys end.
I personally believe Jamie is more at fault. I never felt that Cathy was jealous so much as she wanted support from her husband, one of the few people who is supposed to support her in her dreams because they are her dreams. She was right to be angry at him for leaving her on her birthday, because is reality, he already had a respectable career, and he didn't NEED to go to the party. He can miss ONE party for her. She was literally looking for the bare minimum, support from her husband. And yet he once again chose her work over her. Also, there is simply no excuse for cheating. Like, none. If she was "pushing him to cheating", which I never interpreted from her, he should have simply left. There is no excuse to cheat in my opinion. I personally believe that if you aren't in love with someone anymore, you should tell them rather than sleep with someone else and leave the other person more hurt than if you had just broke up. I do agree that, Jamie grew more than Cathy, but I personally feel like Jamie was never emotionally ready for that commitment, and he shouldn't have jumped in to begin with.
The fact that I’ve just got out of a ‘toxic’ friendship where I was treated and leaned on very much by a friend very much like Cathy that I’m only just getting away from, definitely makes me see Jamie’s side. That’s absolutely no excuse for cheating but even the lack of communication kind of makes sense to me at the end, as your often guilt tripped whenever a conversation happens. I’m kind of team “the relationship was doomed from the start and I’m glad both got away from it” and I feel like the separation would help them both work on themselves
Team Cathy! They both contributed to the crappiness of the relationship but Jamie cheated, lied about it then left her while she was in ohio blindsiding her and probably leaving her stuck in an apartment that she can't afford. There are reasons to leave someone and not have an open talk like abuse, but Jamie screwed up and did whatever he wanted.
I think the biggest thing was that Jamie just checked out of the relationship. Cathy knew that Jamie was cheating on her but she still wanted to try and make it work but Jamie just didn’t really want to make it work. Cathy said that she knew she wasn’t equal to Jamie but at the end of the day her love and support for him was enough for her to stay. I definitely think they’re both to blame for the end of their relationship. While Jamie was supportive of Cathy and her career in the beginning towards the end of their relationship he just assumed she would take on the role of the loving doting wife who just smiles and nods while Cathy kind of realized her self worth and didn’t want to be the known as Jamie’s wife she wanted to be Cathy. And Jamie starts checking out of the relationship when he realizes Cathy wouldn’t continue to follow in his stride and had a bit of anger towards her since she wasn’t being as supportive of his career as she was in the beginning. On the other hand Cathy had troubles communicating her feelings, Jamie was practically begging Cathy to communicate with him about how she felt and she didn’t. But long analysis short some relationships work and some don’t Jamie wasn’t happy, Cathy wasn’t happy so ending it was for the best. Although he shouldn’t have told her through a letter. But i’m gonna go listen to the last five years now.
Legitimately very funny ad sketch. I directed this show a few years ago and the actors and myself had a 2 hour discussion about this very topic and all ended up on different sides. It led to a much better version of the show imo. I could listen to people discuss this show forever. Love your videos Katherine, if you ever come to London you’ve got at least 1 fan!
I find it so interesting how much our perspective can change once we’ve experienced things ourselves. (It’s fascinating seeing yourself develop as a person) I do think that Jamie and Cathy were both at fault but I don’t think they’re necessarily bad people for what they did. They were just flawed people that needed to grow outside of their relationship.
I always wondered why this musical is often summarized along the lines of: He has a career, she has not. That is the problem. I never saw it like that. I dont think Cathy's lack of independence is the problem (the only one who ever claims that she lacks independence is Jamie and I'll come to this later...oh, and most of the people who reviewed the show) nor do I think Jamie's cheating is the reason why they break up. She might be jealous or envy his career but the way I remember the show, the only one who accuses her of that is Jamie. And while he might be right, jealousy can break up a marriage, yes, but its also just a human feeling not a bad character trait per se and it does not have to be the reason of a break-up. I see it like that (and I know, that is probably not Jason Robert Brown's interpretation): Jamie would like to be in a relationship with a woman who admires him(he complains that she doesn't want to go to a party with him because for him it is a sign that she dioesn't suppotrt him. I think the sooong wheere it is really obvious is if I didnt believe in you) . She doesn't support him in the way he expects (probably also because she is sad, songs: Climbing uphill and The Schmuel song) then finally gets persuaded to be more of a cliché-like wife (Song: Im a part of that) though that is what she never wanted (Song I can do better than that). He gets bored with her filling in that role anyway and finds another love interest. To sum it up: He complains any time she does anything in which he is not the center of attention (sorry if that comes off as harsh , I'm not a native English speaker, don't know how to express it in a better way) then blames her for being not independent enough, when her world revolves around him and leaves her broken (Song: Still hurting). Although I can see that Cathy does things that can come across as manipulating (Song: See, I'm smiling - "...and see Im crying, and not do anything at all") I'm still more Team Cathy.
I think the reason so many people are so critical of Cathy is because Jaime is a very charismatic character, played by a talented and attractive actor that many people really like-and all this works in Jaime’s favor as he seeks to put blame and responsibility onto anyone but himself. He not only blames Cathy, but just about every woman in his life. His mother who wants him to marry a Jewish girl (which he doesn’t like but won’t be a grownup about), his many former girlfriends for not being the kind of people he could see himself being in love with (instead of working to not lead them on and then drop them), the “pair of breasts” that “walk by and smile at [him]” (do I even need to say it), the women who are so beautiful and making it so hard to stay faithful to the woman he married about a month ago, and that’s just off the top of my head. Cathy was a driven, ambitious, and talented performer who was dealing with the stress of not being able, even through years of dedicated work, to catch a break in an industry that she loved but was nonetheless ruthless. She worked other, grueling jobs while she was in this process to support herself, so she wasn’t lazy or dependent. She even took lonely work as summer stock in Ohio to build her experience. She wholeheartedly supported Jaime in his career even though other people dismissed her humanity as “the genius’s wife” and she struggled internally with the idea of being financially and in many other ways trapped by an impending future of the life she worked so hard to escape. She also was trying to cope with her husband’s emotional and verbal abuse and neglect (Jaime alternated between love-bombing, ignoring her completely, and giving her loud, scathing lectures like the one before the party), and she had no other support system as he was slowly but surely isolating her. Anyway tldr Cathy was a person constantly doing her best and did not in the least deserve what Jaime did to her. Jaime is an abuser, and if you wonder if that’s too harsh-like I did some years ago-ask yourself: “If it wasn’t abuse, then what was it? What other name is there for the direct opposite of support, or faithfulness, or love?”
I love this because I feel like it’s so hard to pick a “team” because both Jamie and Cathy were in the wrong. Cathy was jealous and caused a lot of conflict, but that does NOT excuse Jamie’s infidelity and lack of compassion. I think they were both just too young and not ready to fully commit to each other.
Okay YES YES YES. Literally I feel so validated. Your analysis is well-thought out and I appreciate that! The breakdown of the characters of Jamie and Cathy is so well done. Thank you for this. I love The Last Five Years, but honestly, I had a hard time listening to it since I first watched it two weeks after my boyfriend and I broke up. It was HARD and triggering. I could see myself in both Jamie AND Cathy, and watching it all play out just reminded me of what I just departed from. But this video has truly aided in my healing and refreshed my love for this show, detaching me from my past hurts and allowing me to view this show in a new light. I feel so much less grief when I think about this show now. So thank you for that. You are such a gift.
I had a discussion about this exact topic yesterday. I totally agree with you. These two should never have gotten married, and as a woman, I can relate to Kathy's issues. I'm planning my wedding, so I take this show to heart. A lot of couples make the mistake of trying to make their spouse their "only one", a person who fills every role in their life, which is way too much for any human being to do. That sets the bar impossibly high.
I don't feel like the show needs me to pick a team. The beauty and heartbreak goes both ways. And that's what I love. (But Jamie is put in a generally worse light BY the show itself, I think)
Team Cathy all the way. She had her issues but his treatment of her in the relationship is very toxic and unhealthy from moment one. His conceptualizations of her as a partner are heavily objectifying from moment one, he consistently refuses to attempt to genuinely validate her or meet her needs and then gaslights her for not feeling validated. He love-bombed her at the beginning of their relationship, making her feel exceedingly special, and he quickly switched to lashing out at her angrily for her insecurities rather than giving her genuine support. Like the song "If I Didn't Believe In You", is RIDDLED with toxic emotional manipulation where he simultaneously belittles her and gives her empty platitudes about loving/supporting her. I just absolutely HATE Jamie at this point.
Shiksa Goddess is also a song entirely about the fact that Jamie's main attraction to Cathy is that she's not Jewish, and that nothing else about her matters to him which really should've been the biggest red flag that things were not going to be all good in their relationship
You can never “drive someone to cheat”. That’s not a thing. You can act in a way that makes the other person not want to be in a relationship with you anymore, but they have the option to break up at anytime. The only time I would consider “driving someone to cheat” as valid is if the partner is abusive, and therefore the “cheater” does not feel safe enough to leave (emotionally or physically).
So as someone who witnesses dysfunctional relationships all around me, I think it’s really difficult to tell who is at fault. 1). It’s NEVER okay to cheat on someone, no matter how many issues you’re having with them. It’s always better to either bring up and fix the problems or break things off if you don’t see a way forward. 2). Trying to find self worth in someone who is not yourself will always end in disaster. Love is not a magic potion that will suddenly make you happy and successful. There are a million other things to touch on obviously, but these are the points that stick out in my mind!
The whole musical is the ol' "anxious attachment with the avoidant attachment" trope. The two different attachment styles (brought to you by Attachment Theory) are more likely to be drawn to one another, mainly by good old fashion statistics. Secure Attachment Style people are more than likely going to already be in some kind of relationship, and so what's left than the single Avoidants and Anxious's. Jamie is in my opinion more Avoidant because he shows that he feels smothered by Kathy. He does not want to lose his independence. Yes he was rushed into his career and his relationship and that is a lot for one person to be expected to handle, but someone who ISN'T 23 might have been able to recognize that and take things at a pace that felt a bit more manageable. Kathy is a CLASSIC anxious attachment style. She craves intimacy and the relationship way more than she craves Jamie. The idea with someone is more appealing than Jamie himself, and the expectation of him meeting her every single need for validation, that fantasy, was always going to be more fruitful than the reality. Even in the end, when Jamie is writing the letter, he recognizes that Kathy wanted him to SAVE her. Which of course makes Kathy's grief twice as painful. Not only did her fantasy relationship die, but her real one did, too. She's grieving both the relationship she hoped for and pictured as well as the real one in front of her.
I don’t feel enough people are commenting their love for the wonderful and funny skit in the middle for the PBS events. I truly loved it. I have now watched it four times, which is ironic considering how I tend to skip through ad sections in most videos. “Silly Me-Goose” is my new favorite phrase I have heard in quite a while.
Not only did Cathy lack self esteem, Jamie fueled it by ignoring her and putting, not only his work but his social life before their relationship. He was flirting with girls at these parties and wanting to cheat the second they got married and it was made clear that she was very aware of that. Some people might argue that if Cathy too had a successful career, she would not be so fixated on their relationship and make it her #1 priority, and how that isn't Jamie's fault. But Jamie is a cocky guy because he was young, attractive, talented and he got LUCKY. Cathy is just as young, attractive, and talented but never reached his level of success which is far too common in that kind of industry. He is so privileged by his success that he literally is incapable of empathizing with her feelings of failure and instead blames her for them and even plays into them at times.
I completely understand where you’re coming from. I got out of a relationship 3 months ago and watching The Last Five Years really helped me reflect on the mistakes I made. I definitely was a Cathy...yikes.
@@sashabrown7793 I did...a few Saturdays back at the matinée...I thought both actors were superb and the simple staging worked well for the most part (I think the opposite side to where I was sitting may have had more actor backs to them than my side 😆)...but then I saw the film this weekend and now I'm not sure what I preferred...the film offered a lot more 'filling in' detail so I got the story even more...plus...Anna Kendrick 😍...I wouldn't say no to a Southwark Cast Recording though! Not sure on the individual perspex prison I was in - safe absolutely but a little squashed
Parts of this musical really echo my last relationship. It's weirdly comforting to hear so many people are at least able to sympathise with Cathy. I often worry that the reason my ex left me is because I smothered him or was too insecure/needy. We were very young when we got together and ended up living together for four years (dating for six), though we never got married (thank god!) The funny thing is, I think being in a relationship with him was part of what led my self esteem and independence to deteriorate. In our relationship, he was definitely the one holding me back, and it caused a lot of friction between us. I shouldn't have stayed with him as long as I did, because I wasn't happy, and I think eventually that made him unhappy. I didn't want to accept that he was holding me back. I thought if he loved me and I was committed enough then we could make it work. In my eyes, I was making a compromise, and that was what love was about. But I think I compromised more than he was ever willing to. Part of the problem was that I was so committed to seeing things from his point of view- being able to empathise with someone is never a bad thing, but it doesn't make your point of view less valid. Both perspectives are equally true, which was something I found really difficult to get my head around. If both are true, it seems so unfair that anyone should have to suffer. Ultimately, I think his parents were the true catalysts, and they had their own reasons for wanting to control his life. When we broke up, he was just beginning therapy, and I truly hope he has found peace in his life. I was heartbroken when he left me, but a year's gone by, I'm a lot better off, more confident and I've been able to work on goals I've had for years. I'm relieved that we didn't stay together. I've learned that if I ignore or minimise my own perspective in comparison to someone else's for long enough, it just makes me bitter and frustrated and not a very nice person to be around. I don't want to be like that to someone. I just wish people knew my side of the story sometimes. It's not something I've shared with many people other than close friends. So, I just thought I'd share this in case anyone out there is in a rocky relationship and happens to read this.
Ok FULLY AGREE on the timing thing and each of their faults but KATHY WAS 23 .. so her faults can be matured/grown out of eventually. Jaime starts as an egomaniac and goes full douche. Both wrong but Jaime was wrongererest.
I'm team, "teach people how to prioritize exploring compatibility in the early stages of a relationship, recognizing red flags, and not forcing things."
You should definitely have Musical Theatre Internet Cult t-shirts that say things like, one of my favorite lines of yours, "first we take over braodway and then the world" as well as things like "all hail Sondheim", etc. I would totally buy and I think other members would too😊
Ok, So I was team Cathy when I was like 14-23 when I first saw the show then kept listening to it. Last year I worked on a production (quick changes) of it. I very soon noticed Cathy's flaws and some of the things Jamie said related to me 'I won't fail for you to be comfortable Cathy, I won't lose because you can't win' REALLY changed me.... So i'd say I'm team Jamie now (we also did have a female Jamie in one of our casts and it worked so well and could have influenced this). Yes Jamie cheated and that's unforgivable... but Cathy was responsible for the downfall before that stage.
I get this angle, BUT he cheated on her instead of breaking up with her so he made himself the villain. Regardless of any of her faults, he should have left instead of staying and cheating
@@AimeeIsAUnicorn fair and that was my view a year ago. Cheating aside, they're both incredibly flawed and when i was younger I didn't see Cathy's flaws.
@@sharnaeks7800 Cathy is really flawed and so is Jamie. But, everyone is blaming Jamie for cheating which is understandable. However, no one's acknowledging him for not wanting to cheat. You can see the scene when she saw the secretary and other girls. Also, in the bar. Cathy "losing" affected the Winning Jamie so he cheated. I'm not saying it's a good reason and there will never be good reason to back up cheating. To say, Cathy's weaknesses brought out Jamie's.
So I'm on all teams! I have been Jaime and Cathy in a few different relationships. My [first] marriage was so much like theirs. We may could have made it work with more counseling. But also the relationship had run its course and we grew in different directions. I have given up on dating and romance, just not interested in it anymore. But if I ever do get into one, my dream is that my partner will watch the show with me and we will have many hours of discussion about it. :)
Team narrator, just like you. Both have valid points, and both were in the wrong. Both are self-absorbed and both have a drive to be loved and supported, and be the main character in their own and their spouse's lives. And that's why I love it so much. This musical reminded me of that famous quote from Marilyn Monroe, the "if you don't want me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best" thing that is toxic as hell. Great break-down, new fan
It is so great to hear someone that I agree with on this topic. I’ve argued with friends for years that the beauty of The Last Five Years (aside from its incredible score) is that Jamie and Cathy are both at fault. It’s a toxic relationship and I think it is destined to fail, not necessarily from the very beginning, but certainly from early on. I think the poison is Jamie’s success, but it is how they both respond and cope with that, that is the reason their marriage fails. I highly recommend streaming the Southwark Playhouse production at the end of the month. I saw it live twice in London. I’ve seen several versions of the show, but this (for me, certainly) is absolutely the best production. Both performers are wonderful, but it is Molly Lynch’s Cathy that was interesting. I think Cathy can often be played as quite weak, but her Cathy made me see the character differently. It’s also an actor-musician show, which adds a whole extra level. I could talk about the production for hours! Really recommend giving it a watch. Be interested to hear what you think. P.S. love the La La Land poster behind you! 😃
I’m definitely team “they both ruined the relationship” but something I feel like no one ever talks about is how Jamie used Cathy for his career. I think he was always in love with the idea of her as his muse not actually who she is and that leads to him never actually supporting her. There’s clues to this all over Jamie’s songs. It’s also hard for him to separate his career and Cathy. A lot of times he’s talking about both in relation to each other which is super unfair to Cathy. He doesn’t even see her as an individual so how would she ever find the validation she desperately craves him to give her (which of course she should be finding elsewhere, this is one of her flaws as discussed). Anyway, I could talk about this show forever it’s so nuanced and I love that about it.
A while ago when I was first getting into musical theater, I saw a tik tok video ranking the people who played Aaron Samuels. Me, not knowing anything, asked where Kyle Selig was because he was absent from the list. Turns out, he got resented by people because he broke up with Erika Henningson. I kept asking how this affects how he played the character and sings, and I just kept getting blocked
YESSS someone finally said it! I am always getting into heated internet discussions about this. Cathy was smothering him sooo much. She was also jealous in a time when he was so supportive of her. Does that mean that the cheating was justified? Nooo, he could have told her that he wants to end this BEFORE he started cheating on her. So yes both are definitely at fault, but I believe that the first cracks were made by Cathy...
When I first saw it I was team Jaime bc I could relate to his optimistic personality more than Cathy who just seemed like a downer. But as I’ve grown older I’m now team Cathy because to me cheating automatically is a disqualification and A Miracle Would Happen makes me really sympathize with Cathy who was in a relationship that was doomed from the moment they got married.
I’m team “everyone needs therapy, couples or not”
Yes!
Periodt. 🙌🏻
Ace fam
Yaaassss ace fam~ ❤️
Second that!
They were both to blame. But Jamie makes my blood boil. I don't think he ever truly loved Cathy, there's so many red flags in his songs, how Cathy is the story he should write, he could be in love with someone like her(later clarifying he NEEDS to be in love with SOMEONE), immediately wanting other women RIGHT after getting married and then cheating on her, saying that he could never rescue her(which sounds so condescending), and DIVORCING HER THROUGH A LETTER. Cathy's biggest problems are that she's jealous and insecure which are more sympathetic. And even though she was jealous of Jamie's success she still supported him for most of their relationship. Ultimately, they were too immature to be married.
Agreed about "I Could Never Rescue You" being such a condescending Dear John letter. Like, really? You're gonna pin all the blame on her? He never even admits to the cheating that Kathy suspected was going on.
@@EmeraldAshesAudio by that point they'd been to therapy, I'm sure the cheating had come out in the wash somewhere. I don't think the song is him pinning blame on her, it's just him admitting he can't do it any more. By that definition, Cathy puts all the blame on him in "Still Hurting".
This is exactly what I feel!
THANK you. You bring up another great point- Cathy supported Jamie a LOT more than he supported her, and I might even dare say that she was more invested in their relationship than he was. I mean, is she really at fault for getting upset in “See I’m Smiling” when he tells her that he can’t stay in town long enough to see her star in a show on her birthday? Is that really too much to ask... of your husband?
No
“Or Jeremy Jordan will cheat on you and time will move backwards” I’m dead 😂😂
Kathy did not “drive Jamie to cheat” cheating is definitely an independent decision
Yes!!!!
Yup, and he wanted to cheat right after they got married, it’s 100% on him
No, not really.
It might be. But also it might have it's roots in not getting enough from relationship. It might take you to the point when you need this positive attention so much you just can resist the possibility of getting some.
It doesn't mean that only the other person is to blame. But still: both added something to the situation. Especially if one or both are unable to communicate what they are lacking.
@@bip5395 You simply need to end the relationship BEFORE cheating! If you don't do that you're a FUCKING jerk!!! It's all on YOU!!!! The other person has 0 fault!!!! No matter what the situation is!!! 🤷♀️
True, but you can decide whether you want to go to couples therapy, or simply talk to one another and use communication. Its their decision that they chose to commit adultery to "solve" their need for attention not the significant others. I'm not say you're making excuses just that theirs other options than adultery and thats always going to be their independent chose.
Personally, I blame Jamie more. I was kinda wish washy until A Miracle Would Happen. The fact that he was contemplating cheating (or at the very least was upset that he was married because he couldn’t be with anyone different) the second after he got married really rubbed me the wrong way. (just my opinion)
I feel the same. It was like after marriage they saw each other so differently 💀
in nobody needs to know there is a verse about how difficult it had become to hold on to each other at that stage km their relationship, but Jaime had pretty much given up on her way before he cheated...Cathy was willing to try and change,fix what was broken ,but he wasn't. Then there was the miscommunication earlier.....and you kinda agree with Jaime how they are too broken to be fixed after Cathy's breakdown in see I'm smiling ,but you can't blame her for having it... in I'm a part of that and summer in Ohio,you see how different their thoughts are after marriage, in I'm a part of that,you see how she's trying really hard,convincing herself that they're still fixable, that is if there's anything to fix...........I swear as much as there's stuff to learn from this story,it's still kinda depressing to go through every time.....
My thoughts exactly
Personally I blame Jaime ENTIRELY, He's the worst
Oh yeah, dude had a foot out the door almost immediately.
THANK YOU
use this as an "i love love love kat" button
:’) ❤️
*slams aggressively*
They are both at fault for the breakdown of the relationship...Jamie encourages Cathy but doesn't support her...if he did, he wouldn't have left his wife on her f-ing birthday...for another party with the same 20 jerks he already knows...he was already a successful writer so didn't necessarily need to network all the time but by that point he was probably already cheating due to Cathy being away and getting attention elsewhere...she was jealous of his success but also tired of playing second fiddle at his networking events...but she was comfortable with that until she wasn't...ultimately...Jamie was searching for women even before he cheated...it's a challenge...no dude it's a marriage so really as Kat said, he needed someone...that person was probably not Cathy...and then he cheated...no excuses for that...end the relationship before it gets that far...
I think Jamie cheated as a result of growing resentment towards Cathy because of her emotional dependence on him. He was probably at the point where, like Kat said, he just needed ANYTHING to get rid of her or just break free. Not that that justifies what he did at ALL but just wanted to shed some insight to the likely reason why Jamie did some of what he did.
@@karlyk7429 That's an interesting take on it...especially as we don't know when the cheating started...I guess that is one of the story flaws, with each song being only a snapshot of where they are at that point of their relationship and we don't know what happened in between...another flaw in the show is the line '41 seasons' in The Schmeul Song - last time I checked there were 4 seasons in a year so that would be roughly 10 years - the line should have been 41 years or 164 seasons! That frustrates me 😆
@@karlyk7429 Thanks definitely an interesting take on it... and I agree that Jamie wanted to break free but he also talks about how he wants to sleep with other women right after they got married...
I wouldn’t say that Cathy was jealous of Jamie’s success per se. I think it’s just that her love emotional need is time. So ya know-she resented how much attention he gave his career or something.
But I see what your saying.
@@pandahead4150 I guess I come at that viewpoint from what she says in 'See I'm Smiling' which could just be something said in the heat of the moment of an argument but it also feels, to me, sincerely her heart pouring out: '...and the point is, Jamie
That you can't spend a single day
That's not about you and you and nothing but you
Marvelous novelist, you!
Isn't he wonderful, just twenty-eight!
The savior of writing!
You and you and nothing but you
Miles and piles of you
Pushing through windows and bursting through walls en route to the sky!
And I...'
* Attacking him with sarcasm 'the saviour of writing'.
* The jealousy that I read into it 'Pushing through windows and bursting through walls en route to the sky! And I...'
It's the 'And I' part. She doesn't verbalise the next line and bursts into tears...to me she was about to say and I am left behind or a failure...it's her insecurity as an actress that I read as jealousy of him. But that is the best part of art and theatre - interpretation. Different meanings to different people and neither right or wrong :)
definitely team get marriage counseling
I’m all for therapy but in the last song Jamie actually did go to therapy “it’s not about another shrink, it’s not about another compromise”
I feel they were too misaligned from the start & weren't meant to be together for a lifetime. They could both find better partners that have more aligned compatibility.
I feel like they both need individual therapy before they date anyone else.
Ooo good one.
I think that is the reason for the dual timelines. To highlight that disconnect.
I blame Jaime way more. Jaime received success super early- no shame in that, but he became unsympathetic to fellow artists who struggled for work and accolades. Y'know- his wife. Dragging her to his release parties celebrating his success and being surrounded by women he acknowledged were flirting with him would wound anyone. But she was just supposed to sit there and be the writer's wife? Yes, you should be supportive and stuff it sometimes, but how long was she supposed to grin and bear it? Cathy went to Ohio because it was the only place she could get work in her field. A field he encouraged her to stay in because he knew she was talented- she just hadn't gotten her big break yet. And towards the decline in their relationship when he was cheating on her, but she had grown to communicate ("see I'm smiling? That means I'm happy that you're here"), he wouldn't fess up to his cheating or ease in his promotion tour. By that point he was only willing to accept her if she could catch up.
I’m team “they both have issues so maybe they should work on themselves first?” 😅
Same
THIS
Yep
Nope, Jamie just so selfish here,period
"It's not about another _shrink,_ it's not about another... *compromise."*
I’m on Cathy’s team. She was willing to admit her mistakes, move on, and be better. Jamie on the other hand, blamed everything on Cathy (like he says in I Couldn’t Save You), even though he cheated on her. If he would have admitted his mistakes and tried to become better, they could’ve grown together and stayed together.
Maybe they would not have stayed together, but at least he would have done the most matured thing to do, and would have learned more in the end.
@@CP-gk4ri True
Cathy never admits her mistakes... "Covered with scars I did nothing to earn". And clearly Jamie didn't just abandon the marriage without trying to salvage it ("it's not about another shrink").
I don't think either of them could see how they were hurting the other because they were so toxic for each other. They both felt the other wasn't meeting their needs. The breakdown of their marriage can't be pinned on any one person or action.
@@meganjane3809 I see your point, but Cathy did say “I’ll own when I was wrong” in See I’m Smiling. They both did bad things, but I think that if she and Jamie owned when they were wrong and moved on (like she wanted to do) there is a chance they could be together.
She doesn't take the blame either. She never acknowledges her faults. In Still Hurting, she completely blames him. He should have done what he did, cheating or leaving her with a note, but they were both at fault. Equally if you ask me.
Team Cathy ALL the way, without even questioning. She was a little insecure? Yes. Was she frustrated about her career? Yes. Did she wish to taste a little of what Jamie was experiencing? Absolutely. However, she supported him greatly until she felt that success was consuming Jamie. She “suffocated” him because Jamie traded his relationship to living his dream. And that’s kinda ok I guess. Until you failed talking to your partner about what’s going on with you, and preferred cheating on Cathy instead of talking to her first. That’s what any reasonable person would do. Cathy was insecure, yes, but what she was afraid of was what happened, EXACTLY as she anticipated. So she wasn’t so out of place. She knew somehow that the lack of balance between both careers would break their relationship. Cathy knew it from the start and she reflects on it in the first song ( I don’t remember the title). Jamie was the only one who tried to convince her that everything would be ok, and then he goes and cheats. And he was such an ass to leave, explanation free. It was the most selfish thing to do because that made the other feel it was their mistake. That’s so messed up. And what I understood was that the other woman was waiting for Jamie to break up with Cathy. Disgusting. I can never be on his team, sorry.
YES THANK U
Yes!!!!This! And the fact that Jamie sings a hole Song about how "happy" he is to be married. Right after HE proposed to Cathy. Like...oh yeah... I can't sleep with other women anymore....I guess that's okay?
I completely agree with you on everything you said!!! I believe the song you are talking about that Cathy sings is I’m a part of that. I absolutely hold Jamie accountable. He was encouraging the flirting between him & other girls & even in the song A Miracle would happen, he admitted that he did nothing to discourage them from doing it then freaked out as Cathy would appear. I felt love from him to her in The Schmuel Song, but he was completely different after that. Cheating isn’t ok & the fact that he was feeling the need to drift his attention & contemplate cheating should’ve been a sign for him to end the marriage rather than continue to break Cathy’s heart.
Agreed 100%. Even if they both had been equally at fault in the relationship (which I don't think they were), who thinks it's acceptable to cheat and then end a marriage by leaving a f***ing note?! They both had communication issues, but Jamie wasn't even willing to meet Cathy halfway, and he treated her like trash.
Wish I could “like” this more times!!! Great analysis. It’s such a shame people immediately blame the person who gets cheated on, instead of the cheater. Reminds me of that Voltaire quote about learning who’s really in power by learning who you’re not allowed to criticize...
I’m on the side of: they never should have gotten together. The only reason Jamie was interested in Kathy, was because he wanted to be in a relationship with someone different than all the Jewish women before. I think he lived a very sheltered life and was often told that he was so great and talented that when he met Kathy, who didn’t really have much going, it stroked his ego. With Kathy she seemed to have been surrounded by people who had nothing going for them so meeting Jamie, who was becoming so successful so quickly, she immediately fell for him because he was something better than what she had before. Sure that would be fine if that was it, but when Kathy is continually struggling with her career and Jamie is basically supporting both of them, that Kathy becomes financially and emotionally reliant on him. For an example, he paid for new headshots and stuff and she can’t even book a gig. That could be seen as encouraging but Jamie uses that against her later by saying that he’s been there helping her along, why can’t she just go to a party that she doesn’t want to go to. And when he cheats, it can almost be explained away by, him feeling restricted by her. But if anything, Kathy is also stuck because she has become so reliant on him that she can’t let go. Even though she has a job in Ohio, she can’t afford to live by herself anymore. Especially because as she’s getting older, her self esteem is plummeting even faster because there are younger and prettier women auditioning for roles. And while she is dealing with those issues, Jamie is out cheating and making Kathy believe that all their problems are because of her. I don’t think either of them were emotionally mature enough to save their relationship much less have the relationship as long as they had.
OK but like
Pretty much immediately before they got married he was complaining about wanting to cheat on her so
no
To clarify further - Yes, I agree with Kat about Cathy's shortcomings and Cathy is not blameless. But Jamie is like, legitimately a mysogynistic piece of shit
i’m definitely team cathy. not only is there no excuse for cheating, but she was always so supportive of jamie’s career until the very end and jamie never did anything to support hers, which is really evident in cathy’s second song.
Even though Cathy felt bad for her career not going as planned, she still seemed to be supportive of Jamie and wanted him to be happy. I felt the clingy nature only cane out because he wasn't communicating with her and seemed distance. So, I'm with you, team. Cathy. Jamie has very few redeeming qualities
100%
Jamie literally noped out of supporting Cathy when it started to slightly inconvenience him, when she was always there sucking it up just to be a good girlfriend/wife. Sure she had her issues as well but Jamie sucks the most
What really gets to me is that he cheats on her before he visits her in Ohio, which means while she was trying to compromise over and over again in See I'm Smiling, he was being a particularly garbage person. She accuses him of cheating (and she is right), and then says 'no I'm not, no I'm not', and the only way for that to make grammatical sense, in that breath he must have tried to blame her with some variation of 'YOU are wrong' or 'YOU are crazy'. That makes him a gaslighter, and gaslighting is a subtle form of emotional abuse, so in my book he is irredeemable garbage.
Also, as much as Shiksa Goddess is a great song, it isn't a song about how amazing Cathy is. It is really impersonal and he is essentially telling her 'I don't care about anything about you, just don't be jewish.' Which is just eeewwwww. It wouldn't surprise me if it is a big part of why Cathy has self esteem issues.
To sum up, Jamie is just the worst.
@@noahhutchins5164 I completely agree with the both of you!
i'll never forget a fact i heard about this show and i can't remember who posted it but cathy's name isn't spoken until like 5 songs in but jamie is the very first word of the show. i think that speaks a lot about who cathy and jamie are as people.
That’s why I love this show. I learn something new every time I hear it. Now that you mention it he doesn’t say her name, just affectionate nickname, until the end of the Schmuel Song when he is comforting and supporting her and perhaps for the first time seeing her as something more than a pretty non Jewish girl, but someone that he can potentially love. He says her name once in The Next Ten Minutes before he asks her to marry him. Then he says her name a lot. In a Miracle Would Happen he says her name in a few lines but mainly repeating the chorus “it would be me and Cathy and nothing else would matter” Even though Cathy is now his wife and is more than a pretty face, there are just so many other pretty faces too but he is trying to convince himself that it should just be him and Cathy so he repeats her name to remind himself of that. Jaime also repeats her name constantly in If I Didn’t Believe In You and the repetitions increase as he gets angrier and angrier at her lack of communication. He’s trying to connect with her, to make her see things from his perspective, and her silence makes it seem as though all of his efforts of supporting her(at least what he thinks of as supporting. Maybe he got tired of singing song like the Schmuel Song to make her happy. If nothing else he is still financially supporting her at this time) aren’t being appreciated so why even bother being faithful to someone who doesn’t appear to care about your needs? The last time he says it is in the beginning of Nobody Needs to Know “Cathy is waiting” and “Cathy Just Look at Me Now” he can no longer just say her name to remind himself of his love for her. He has to move on because that love is gone. Look at him now, he is presumably with Elise, the only name he mentions in I Could Never Rescue You. Signaling he has fully moved on from Cathy to a new pretty face that he now loves, Elise. Am I thinking about this too deeply or is the name thing done on purpose, either way it brings a whole other layer to this show
I think the only song where Cathy doesn’t say Jamie’s name is When You Come Hims to Me. She also doesn’t say his name in I Can Do Better Than That but instead names people from her past who she thinks are beneath her. Maybe that also means something.
@@musicallynerdy8860 that's an incredible analysis!! considering that the two are rarely singing to each other (their stories are moving in different directions. the audience pretty much just sees the two of them on their own) i think the name thing is certainly on purpose. the audience needs to be reminded that these two people are together, remember that their story is pretty much the same even though jamie and cathy are not seen together on stage as one (the exception is 'the next ten minutes') jamie's name being the first word in the show just goes to show how much cathy thinks she needs to depend on jamie, even though he left her. like you said, jamie consistent reciting of cathy's name in desperation towards the end of his timeline can be mirrored to cathy's beginning as well. i hope this makes sense. i appreciate your excellent contribution. this show really is incredible and it's rare to find a work of art that communicates such a complex relationship.
Jamie's name is the first song in the show, but only because the director chose an alternative timeline. The end of the relationship is the first scene, but the last moment of the relationship.
OH MY GOD I DIDNT REALIZE THAT UNTIL YOU MENTIONED IT
Team Cathy or team Jamie?
WHAT TEAM?
WILDCATS
GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME
YES
WILDCATS! GET YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!!!
THIS.
Tough for me to pick a side but Jamie LOST the high ground when he cheated.
You: Tough for me to pick a side
That's the beauty of it, It's both. Yes, Jamie was a cheating douche bag. But Cathy should never have married him. She was teeming with resentment about his success even before he proposed. "I will not be the girl who gets asked how it feels to be trotting along at the genius's heels." and Jamie his it right on the head with "I will not fail because you can't win." Also, he uses the cheating as a means to end the relationship, once he knew there was no more hope for them. He sings "I could love someone like you" (or whatever the actual words are there) twice in the show, which probably means he just wants someone to love, he doesn't want specifically Cathy. That combined with Cathy's side, it was pretty doomed from the beginning.
I relate way more to Jamie but I’m 100% team Cathy like....she automatically wins by not cheating? But they weren’t well suited for each-other whatsoever.
she isn't upset that his career was more successful, he was upset because he put his career before HER. he cared more about his career than he did their relationship time and time again. she was jealous of his career because he gave it more attention than her, not jealous of him for having a more successful career.
bingo. she literally just wants to get back what she is giving and to him she isn't worth it, because nothing that isn't about him is worth it. which is fine, but then you don't belong in a relationship let alone a marriage.
Part of my brain is like its totally Jamie's fault, but part of me is like that's ok, just look at him. I like things that are bad for me
"I like things that are bad for me" SCREAMING !!!!
definitely team cathy. probably only because i have to have some empathy for her lack of success and having constantly being dragged along in jamie’s journey. i think they both had issues they just overall couldn’t fix or get over. but she definitely had some faults that made me frustrated like lack of emotional communication. still no justification for cheating though. if you’re unhappy, BREAK UP!! then again i guess that goes hand in hand with jamie’s character and his commitment issues. i can understand why anyone would pick either side. but overall they were built on a cracked foundation and it was an inevitable fall. made some really great points kat :)
Kat: * posts video *
Theater Thursday fam: *I am speed*
I WAS LITERALLY JUST SINGING “NEXT TEN MINUTES” KAT YOU’RE A WIZARD
omg 😂
I rewatched the movie when the pandemic started (because I needed a reason to cry, LOL) and have been listening to the soundtrack and I have even encountered a couple of debates on Twitter, so I think that the "collective mind" is going through a Las 5 Years phase!
Ooo, such a controversial issue! I don’t think we’re meant to side completely with either Jamie or Cathy. The show is meant demonstrate the arch of their relationship and why it was doomed to fail. Jamie and Cathy were in different places, and the show highlights that by using opposite timelines for their stories.
If anyone would cheat on me I would like it to be Jimmy Jordan
gotta love that “jimmy” jordan
Man, I love me some Jimmy Jordan
Don't we all
But actually though
Team Cathy bc whatever faults she had, Jamie continuously chose to stay when he recognized that he wasn't 100% in it. He wanted to cheat almost immediately and he then went on to cheat. He lost any right to claim it was her fault after that
I think the whole point of this musical is that no one's to blame, and they're both to blame. Just like real life
Well their relationship started off with Jamie singing about Cathy could literally be anyone and it wouldn't matter to him as long as she wasn't Jewish... not a great starting off point. Then he immediately wanted to sleep with other women after they god married... to me it's clear that Jamie was more in love with the idea of Cathy rather than Cathy herself. I'm definitely in the camp of they were both at fault but the fact that Jamie has an affair tips it towards him more.
TEA. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
I just watched this movie a few weeks ago and loved it! Personally I think they both need serious therapy but I definitely lean more towards Cathy’s side. Cathy is extremely supportive of Jamie’s career and his gaslighting attempt in “If I didn’t Believe in You” did not sit right with me. Also, not only does he CHEAT on her, he is not enough of a man to confront her about it and instead pathetically leaves her a note. Cathy definitely has serious problems, but in “See I’m Smiling” she seems to start to realize this and want to truly connect and talk with her husband about it. Jamie not only can’t appreciate the fact that she’s trying to reach him, he lies about having to go to a meeting that he absolutely did not have to go to. Jamie had no grounds to cheat on his wife of 5 years. If he confronted her about the problems and said he wanted to get a divorce I honestly would probably side with him. Cheating is absolutely unacceptable and since he did it I can’t side with him no matter how problematic Cathy is.
Team Cathy, solely because JRB is a crap person and based Jamie on himself and used the show to badmouth his ex-wife.
@Gia Yoder I read somewhere that she was going to sue him over some of the songs, but I'm not sure what the outcome was there.
@@ShadowsofthePastTheater I believe that the cut song that was replaced by Shiksa Godess had to be taken down because there were too many real elements from their past relationship in it
The original song was i could be in love with someone like you and it was replaced by shiksa goddess and ngl it’s a bop.you can watch the song I yt if you want he sang it in some concert I’m sure you guys could find it if you wanted to listen. :)
I wouldn’t say he used it to badmouth his ex-wife considering how most people who see it think Jamie is in the wrong.
I think this is more like JRB admitting to his faults. Because... most of the people really leave the theatre disliking Jamie. He’s awful.
"If I Didn't Believe In You" is the song that changed my opinion on their relationship the most. When I was younger, I actually thought it was more equal blame on each side, but as more time has gone on I've really become Team "Jamie Probably Shouldn't Be With Any Woman For A While".
Cathy definitely had communication problems and felt resentment towards him in her solo songs (meaning they're not in the same place at that point) but he straight up tells her that his resentment towards her is his fault ("I will not fail so that you can be comfortable Cathy, I will not lose because you can't win") in a major gaslighting way. Also I feel like "Nobody Needs To Know" definitely hints at the idea that it wouldn't matter where his partner's career is, he's always going to put on a savior complex and then get mad when the other woman wants to be saved.
That moment when you don't know anything about The Last Five Years but you still watch the video simply because it's a Katherine Steele video
the movie is free with ads on youtube rn ;)
@@jameswilliams2580 tysm I really want to watch this movie but never knew where to watch it
@@jameswilliams2580 Yeah, it keeps popping up in my recommended, but I haven't watched it for some reason. Thank you, though! :)
It's a really good musical❤
So sad. And the Songs are amazing and the concept is so cool
When watching the Last Five Years, my brain always says: “Why didn’t Jamie just write a stage-play and use Kathy as his muse during the writing and then make plans to preview it off-Broadway?”
I mean, he had the success and the connections and already loves to write. 🤷🏽♀️
But then that places a lot of her shortcomings on him again so then I go back to the Ben and Jerry’s and just cry. 😅
Question... Who is team Jamie? Honestly... I really wanna get to know that person
I'm sory, but Jamie was contemplating cheating, two seconds after the wedding...
And Cathy was going through very difficult situation, professionally... Jamie got lucky at 23 before his professor read his book...
He wasn't lucky, he was hard-working. :') Cathy losing and her weaknesses brought Jamie to succumbed to his weaknesses he was avoiding such as being unfaithful. You can see that with him looking away from the secretary and the other girls at the parties. They are both at fault anyways. It's just that Jamie became a cheater so he was being blame.
@@siem9329 He was also lucky. People need to stop pretending everything is about merit. Jamie is a man in the United States in a pretty progressive era. There are people who are just as hard working and talented who will never see that type of success, because they don't have the same amount of privilege.
@@Aster_Risk he is a writer, he is evaluated by the content he writes and he's work can never be compared to others unlike what you are pointing out.
She wouldn’t even go with him to the party? They were both at fault but I feel like Cathy kept pushing him away right after they got married. She didn’t need to go to Ohio if she wanted to put her marriage before her floundering career. So I guess I am team Jamie. But hear me out. 😁
Just because he was sort of disappointed he could not sleep with other women right when he started becoming well known doesn’t mean anything because she didn’t cheat then. He only cheated at the end as a way of getting out of the marriage. Cathy kept taking out her professional insecurities out on him and I think he honestly tried the best he could for as long as he could but she was giving him less and less to work with. Cathy could have found other paths to happiness that didn’t include acting but she just kept making it a big and bigger deal even as his career kept doing better and better. I think he was horrible for not visiting her more when she was away but I also feel like she went on tour when she didn’t even want or need to all in order to catch up to Jamie career wise for no other reason aside from her needing validation. She knew their marriage was in a sensitive place and she decided to leave and not work on their marriage but work on her career. But I am just saying reverse the roles and have the guy constantly feeling not good enough while the women’s career is rising, have the guy be the one leaving rather then working on their marriage and wouldn’t Jamie still being seen as the one at fault? They definitely should have dated longer because I don’t think they should have even gotten married but then there would be no play.☺️💜🎶
@@shay2218 let's just agree that they were both to blame and that they were a terrible match to begin with...
"I didn't hate Cathy, I just hated the parts of myself that I saw in her" wow that's...relatable
Both need to get therapy (everyone needs to get therapy), but I'm still team Cathy because I feel like I can't really blame her for having a low self esteem. Also, Jamie cheated.
They obviously both share responsibility, and one of the most frustrating/tragic parts of the show is that neither of them really accepts responsibility. In "Still Hurting," Cathy says that she's "covered in scars I (she) did nothing to earn," and in "I Could Never Rescue You," Jamie essentially says the end of the relationship was inevitable (the cracks were too wide) which while it is true that the general situation put a lot of strain on their relationship, I'm not sure the obstacles were insurmountable. He proceeds to say, "I could never rescue you, all you ever wanted. All I could do was love you", and while it is true that Cathy displayed signs of wanting a relationship to save her, Jamie's "oh, I tried my best, but it just wasn't enough for you" is frankly poppycock as he is currently cheating on her and can't take the time to support her career (See I'm smiling) even though she has, in fact, been supporting his for a while (Part of That).
i just recently watched the last 5 years for the first time and now that audition sequence lives in my mind rent free because it’s just a lil too real
you know youre a theatre kid when you tell your mum that its theatre thursday and wait for kat to upload
WHY ARENT WE TALKING ABOUT HOW HYSTERICAL KAT’S NEW STYLE OF AD READS ARE??
I think you have some great points on how this relationship was a mutual failing. However, I still blame Jaime more. Mainly for weaponizing Cathy's insecurities against her to drive a wedge between them, which he then uses to cheat on her. They are each self centered in their own ways, mutually wanting some measure of validation from the other for their own esteem.
I think it's almost impossible to put the blame for the disintegration of a relationship ENTIRELY on one party. However, it's also important to recognise how we often interact with low self-esteem, which makes me have more empathy for Cathy. The formation of low self-esteem is so cyclical because when someone doesn't love themselves, oftentimes we punish them for it by responding to their insecurity with avoidance and distance, and then they love themselves less. There's this weird narrative that offering an insecure and/or insecurely attached person validation is BAD for them, and so people refuse to respond to their partner/friend/family member/coworker/what have you with warmth and empathy. Rather, they distance themselves (like Jamie) so as not to "reward" their behaviour. In "the Schmuel song" and "If I didn't Believe in you", he only ever talks about HIS feelings for her. Insecurity does not exist in a vacuum. He validates their relationship, but never her feelings or her right to feel them. It's not just Cathy driving Jamie away with her neediness; Jamie is reproducing Cathy's insecurity with his poor treatment of her and awful handling of her emotions. Cathy may be needy, but Jamie is kind of an avoidant, gaslighting bag of dicks who doesn't understand self-doubt because he doesn't really experience it. But clearly, I've never thought about it.
I love The Last 5 Years. I love the musical as well as the movie. I like talking about the movie with other people and going in-depth. The use of color in the movie with the happy scenes and the more depressing scenes made the movie amazing. Jeremy Jordans interpretation of Jamie was amazing because I think some of the other Jamie's (other than the original) are so sugar-coated and Jeremy added more depth and feelings to Jamie Character . The vocals in the movie are so amazing. I loved seeing the cameos in the movie like Betsy Wolfe and Jason Robert Brown. The Last 5 years is one of my favorite movies .
I believe both were at fault in the relationship. I believe Jamie was happy in the beginning and he loved Cathy. More toward the end though as he was getting more successful, I think he was getting selfish. I mean he did not come to any of Cathy's shows. Cathy on the other hand went to Jamie's parties just to be ignored. Also on Jamies' part, he cheated on her by sleeping and having sex with other women. Also at the end of his part he kept talking about how easy it was to cheat on her. I believe Cathy was also at fault. Cathy had confidence issues. Jamie knew that and told her to be confident in herself and be the “Ambiguous freak you are”.Jamie gave Cathy the chance by giving her “A headshot guy” and “A New backstage”. He could never rescue her and he kept pushing her up the hill. I mean Cathy got left with a letter and a ring from Jamie. I believe how they failed was not communicating with each other about their problems. Maybe if that happened maybe Jamie would not have cheated on her.And there relationship would have not ended and they would still be together.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk
I will literally talk for hours about this movie/ musical Also the cut song from the last 5 years is so good I want Jeremy Jordan to cover it now
I am 100% team Cathy because I've been in her shoes. I've been in relationships where my partner was entirely focused on their career at the expense of everything else. I've been the arm candy at work functions where my partner spent the entire time schmoozing with the same people over and over again while I sat alone by myself. I've supported my partner 100% in everything they wanted to do while my partner completely brushed off the things that made me happy and refused to show up for the things that were important for my career. My partner never cheated (that I'm aware of) but everything else Cathy went through, I've had to deal with. I don't think she was needy for wanting Jamie to spend her birthday weekend with her in Ohio and to see her perform instead of making a quick 5 minute appearance before flying right back to New York to do the same thing he always does. That's not needy. That's just expecting your partner to actually be your partner and not your roommate that you just happen to share a bed with. Like at that point she really was just asking him for the bare minimum and he still couldn't deliver. And she was well within her right to be mad. Also the fact the the whole reason Jamie got with her in the first place is because she isn't Jewish and he wanted to piss off his parents is totally not the right reason to start a relationship. And yes, I have been in that position as well. My last partner was literally Jamie but with science instead of writing and no cheating.
Last time I was this early, Aaron Burr would still wait for it and Hamilton didn't throw away his shot
*omg- yes*
i think that they are both in the wrong. Even if Jamie cheates and guarantees the eventual break up, the relationship was already over before that , since Cathy stopped communicating and kept all her insicurities for herself leaving very little space for love.
I’m on the fence between team Cathy and team therapy, but in my heart, I’m team Jeremy Jordan forever 🤩
Me too, but I hate Jamie a lot until now, I'm glad Jeremy is so happy with his wife and daughter for almost 12 years already
"Some people cant get success with their art / Some people never feel love in their heart / Some people cant tell the two things apart" ---> both of them!!
I almost spit out my coffee when she said, “I’m filming this on my iPad like a parent at a ballet recital” 😂😂
That was probably the most hilarious sponsorship bit I’ve ever seen 🤣🤣🤣
When you brought back “first we take over Broadway and then the world I literally teared up in nostalgia, since I’ve been subbed longer than I can remember omg
TL5Y is in my top 5 favorite shows of all time, and it’s by far the most interesting show to analyze if you ask me, since there’s always something new to notice.
Now speaking as someone who has been cheated on, and been in an extremely toxic relationship, I’m team Jamie. Both of them were SO at fault. They both caused the divorce, but if we had to point fingers, mine would be at Cathy. There’s no excuse for cheating. Being cheated on is the worst feeling on earth. However, cathys inability to stand on her own two feet, inability to grow and mature, lack of confidence, was the bigger cause of the downfall. Cathy needed to find Cathy before she was with someone like Jamie. Jamie messed up plenty of times, like cheating, leaving her alone on her birthday for a party, and wasn’t always the most supportive. However, if I didn’t believe in you Is my favorite song in the show, and in it he says “no one can give you courage, no one can thicken your skin, I will not fail so you can be comfortable Cathy, I will not lose because you can’t win.” And I think that’s spot on. Cathy was too dependent on Jamie and relied on him for any kind of self worth or validation. That’s not fair to Jamie. She couldn’t handle him being successful while she was struggling. It’s not easy for anyone, but for someone like her I think it was especially hard.
So are they both the cause of their own downfall? Yes. But I see more fault on cathys end.
Next video you should talk about why TikTok took "Never ever getting rid of me" from Waitress and turned it into a meme about stalking.
I personally believe Jamie is more at fault. I never felt that Cathy was jealous so much as she wanted support from her husband, one of the few people who is supposed to support her in her dreams because they are her dreams. She was right to be angry at him for leaving her on her birthday, because is reality, he already had a respectable career, and he didn't NEED to go to the party. He can miss ONE party for her. She was literally looking for the bare minimum, support from her husband. And yet he once again chose her work over her. Also, there is simply no excuse for cheating. Like, none. If she was "pushing him to cheating", which I never interpreted from her, he should have simply left. There is no excuse to cheat in my opinion. I personally believe that if you aren't in love with someone anymore, you should tell them rather than sleep with someone else and leave the other person more hurt than if you had just broke up. I do agree that, Jamie grew more than Cathy, but I personally feel like Jamie was never emotionally ready for that commitment, and he shouldn't have jumped in to begin with.
Yes!!! I’ve been waiting for another theater rant! 😂
The fact that I’ve just got out of a ‘toxic’ friendship where I was treated and leaned on very much by a friend very much like Cathy that I’m only just getting away from, definitely makes me see Jamie’s side. That’s absolutely no excuse for cheating but even the lack of communication kind of makes sense to me at the end, as your often guilt tripped whenever a conversation happens. I’m kind of team “the relationship was doomed from the start and I’m glad both got away from it” and I feel like the separation would help them both work on themselves
Team Cathy! They both contributed to the crappiness of the relationship but Jamie cheated, lied about it then left her while she was in ohio blindsiding her and probably leaving her stuck in an apartment that she can't afford. There are reasons to leave someone and not have an open talk like abuse, but Jamie screwed up and did whatever he wanted.
I think the biggest thing was that Jamie just checked out of the relationship. Cathy knew that Jamie was cheating on her but she still wanted to try and make it work but Jamie just didn’t really want to make it work. Cathy said that she knew she wasn’t equal to Jamie but at the end of the day her love and support for him was enough for her to stay. I definitely think they’re both to blame for the end of their relationship. While Jamie was supportive of Cathy and her career in the beginning towards the end of their relationship he just assumed she would take on the role of the loving doting wife who just smiles and nods while Cathy kind of realized her self worth and didn’t want to be the known as Jamie’s wife she wanted to be Cathy. And Jamie starts checking out of the relationship when he realizes Cathy wouldn’t continue to follow in his stride and had a bit of anger towards her since she wasn’t being as supportive of his career as she was in the beginning. On the other hand Cathy had troubles communicating her feelings, Jamie was practically begging Cathy to communicate with him about how she felt and she didn’t. But long analysis short some relationships work and some don’t Jamie wasn’t happy, Cathy wasn’t happy so ending it was for the best. Although he shouldn’t have told her through a letter. But i’m gonna go listen to the last five years now.
but that’s just a theory . . . A THEATRE THEORY
I think what I took away from this is that Jeremy Jordan is just too gosh darn charismatic and loveable for me to ever not like him
Legitimately very funny ad sketch.
I directed this show a few years ago and the actors and myself had a 2 hour discussion about this very topic and all ended up on different sides. It led to a much better version of the show imo.
I could listen to people discuss this show forever.
Love your videos Katherine, if you ever come to London you’ve got at least 1 fan!
I find it so interesting how much our perspective can change once we’ve experienced things ourselves. (It’s fascinating seeing yourself develop as a person) I do think that Jamie and Cathy were both at fault but I don’t think they’re necessarily bad people for what they did. They were just flawed people that needed to grow outside of their relationship.
I always wondered why this musical is often summarized along the lines of: He has a career, she has not. That is the problem. I never saw it like that. I dont think Cathy's lack of independence is the problem (the only one who ever claims that she lacks independence is Jamie and I'll come to this later...oh, and most of the people who reviewed the show) nor do I think Jamie's cheating is the reason why they break up. She might be jealous or envy his career but the way I remember the show, the only one who accuses her of that is Jamie. And while he might be right, jealousy can break up a marriage, yes, but its also just a human feeling not a bad character trait per se and it does not have to be the reason of a break-up. I see it like that (and I know, that is probably not Jason Robert Brown's interpretation): Jamie would like to be in a relationship with a woman who admires him(he complains that she doesn't want to go to a party with him because for him it is a sign that she dioesn't suppotrt him. I think the sooong wheere it is really obvious is if I didnt believe in you) . She doesn't support him in the way he expects (probably also because she is sad, songs: Climbing uphill and The Schmuel song) then finally gets persuaded to be more of a cliché-like wife (Song: Im a part of that) though that is what she never wanted (Song I can do better than that). He gets bored with her filling in that role anyway and finds another love interest. To sum it up: He complains any time she does anything in which he is not the center of attention (sorry if that comes off as harsh , I'm not a native English speaker, don't know how to express it in a better way) then blames her for being not independent enough, when her world revolves around him and leaves her broken (Song: Still hurting). Although I can see that Cathy does things that can come across as manipulating (Song: See, I'm smiling - "...and see Im crying, and not do anything at all") I'm still more Team Cathy.
_Yes._
YeS.
*YES.*
*THEATER THURSDAY*
I think the reason so many people are so critical of Cathy is because Jaime is a very charismatic character, played by a talented and attractive actor that many people really like-and all this works in Jaime’s favor as he seeks to put blame and responsibility onto anyone but himself. He not only blames Cathy, but just about every woman in his life. His mother who wants him to marry a Jewish girl (which he doesn’t like but won’t be a grownup about), his many former girlfriends for not being the kind of people he could see himself being in love with (instead of working to not lead them on and then drop them), the “pair of breasts” that “walk by and smile at [him]” (do I even need to say it), the women who are so beautiful and making it so hard to stay faithful to the woman he married about a month ago, and that’s just off the top of my head.
Cathy was a driven, ambitious, and talented performer who was dealing with the stress of not being able, even through years of dedicated work, to catch a break in an industry that she loved but was nonetheless ruthless. She worked other, grueling jobs while she was in this process to support herself, so she wasn’t lazy or dependent. She even took lonely work as summer stock in Ohio to build her experience. She wholeheartedly supported Jaime in his career even though other people dismissed her humanity as “the genius’s wife” and she struggled internally with the idea of being financially and in many other ways trapped by an impending future of the life she worked so hard to escape. She also was trying to cope with her husband’s emotional and verbal abuse and neglect (Jaime alternated between love-bombing, ignoring her completely, and giving her loud, scathing lectures like the one before the party), and she had no other support system as he was slowly but surely isolating her.
Anyway tldr Cathy was a person constantly doing her best and did not in the least deserve what Jaime did to her. Jaime is an abuser, and if you wonder if that’s too harsh-like I did some years ago-ask yourself:
“If it wasn’t abuse, then what was it? What other name is there for the direct opposite of support, or faithfulness, or love?”
I love this because I feel like it’s so hard to pick a “team” because both Jamie and Cathy were in the wrong. Cathy was jealous and caused a lot of conflict, but that does NOT excuse Jamie’s infidelity and lack of compassion. I think they were both just too young and not ready to fully commit to each other.
Okay YES YES YES. Literally I feel so validated. Your analysis is well-thought out and I appreciate that! The breakdown of the characters of Jamie and Cathy is so well done. Thank you for this.
I love The Last Five Years, but honestly, I had a hard time listening to it since I first watched it two weeks after my boyfriend and I broke up. It was HARD and triggering. I could see myself in both Jamie AND Cathy, and watching it all play out just reminded me of what I just departed from. But this video has truly aided in my healing and refreshed my love for this show, detaching me from my past hurts and allowing me to view this show in a new light. I feel so much less grief when I think about this show now. So thank you for that. You are such a gift.
I had a discussion about this exact topic yesterday. I totally agree with you. These two should never have gotten married, and as a woman, I can relate to Kathy's issues. I'm planning my wedding, so I take this show to heart. A lot of couples make the mistake of trying to make their spouse their "only one", a person who fills every role in their life, which is way too much for any human being to do. That sets the bar impossibly high.
I don't feel like the show needs me to pick a team. The beauty and heartbreak goes both ways. And that's what I love.
(But Jamie is put in a generally worse light BY the show itself, I think)
Team Cathy all the way. She had her issues but his treatment of her in the relationship is very toxic and unhealthy from moment one. His conceptualizations of her as a partner are heavily objectifying from moment one, he consistently refuses to attempt to genuinely validate her or meet her needs and then gaslights her for not feeling validated. He love-bombed her at the beginning of their relationship, making her feel exceedingly special, and he quickly switched to lashing out at her angrily for her insecurities rather than giving her genuine support. Like the song "If I Didn't Believe In You", is RIDDLED with toxic emotional manipulation where he simultaneously belittles her and gives her empty platitudes about loving/supporting her. I just absolutely HATE Jamie at this point.
Shiksa Goddess is also a song entirely about the fact that Jamie's main attraction to Cathy is that she's not Jewish, and that nothing else about her matters to him which really should've been the biggest red flag that things were not going to be all good in their relationship
DUDE EXACTLY!!!!! HUUGGEE RED FLAG!!!
Team Couples Therapy
also, I was wonder if you could do a video on the Frankenstein musical
Team Jeremy Jordan, full stop. End of discussion.
You can never “drive someone to cheat”. That’s not a thing. You can act in a way that makes the other person not want to be in a relationship with you anymore, but they have the option to break up at anytime. The only time I would consider “driving someone to cheat” as valid is if the partner is abusive, and therefore the “cheater” does not feel safe enough to leave (emotionally or physically).
So as someone who witnesses dysfunctional relationships all around me, I think it’s really difficult to tell who is at fault.
1). It’s NEVER okay to cheat on someone, no matter how many issues you’re having with them. It’s always better to either bring up and fix the problems or break things off if you don’t see a way forward.
2). Trying to find self worth in someone who is not yourself will always end in disaster. Love is not a magic potion that will suddenly make you happy and successful.
There are a million other things to touch on obviously, but these are the points that stick out in my mind!
The whole musical is the ol' "anxious attachment with the avoidant attachment" trope. The two different attachment styles (brought to you by Attachment Theory) are more likely to be drawn to one another, mainly by good old fashion statistics. Secure Attachment Style people are more than likely going to already be in some kind of relationship, and so what's left than the single Avoidants and Anxious's. Jamie is in my opinion more Avoidant because he shows that he feels smothered by Kathy. He does not want to lose his independence. Yes he was rushed into his career and his relationship and that is a lot for one person to be expected to handle, but someone who ISN'T 23 might have been able to recognize that and take things at a pace that felt a bit more manageable. Kathy is a CLASSIC anxious attachment style. She craves intimacy and the relationship way more than she craves Jamie. The idea with someone is more appealing than Jamie himself, and the expectation of him meeting her every single need for validation, that fantasy, was always going to be more fruitful than the reality. Even in the end, when Jamie is writing the letter, he recognizes that Kathy wanted him to SAVE her. Which of course makes Kathy's grief twice as painful. Not only did her fantasy relationship die, but her real one did, too. She's grieving both the relationship she hoped for and pictured as well as the real one in front of her.
I don’t feel enough people are commenting their love for the wonderful and funny skit in the middle for the PBS events. I truly loved it.
I have now watched it four times, which is ironic considering how I tend to skip through ad sections in most videos. “Silly Me-Goose” is my new favorite phrase I have heard in quite a while.
Not only did Cathy lack self esteem, Jamie fueled it by ignoring her and putting, not only his work but his social life before their relationship. He was flirting with girls at these parties and wanting to cheat the second they got married and it was made clear that she was very aware of that. Some people might argue that if Cathy too had a successful career, she would not be so fixated on their relationship and make it her #1 priority, and how that isn't Jamie's fault. But Jamie is a cocky guy because he was young, attractive, talented and he got LUCKY. Cathy is just as young, attractive, and talented but never reached his level of success which is far too common in that kind of industry. He is so privileged by his success that he literally is incapable of empathizing with her feelings of failure and instead blames her for them and even plays into them at times.
I completely understand where you’re coming from. I got out of a relationship 3 months ago and watching The Last Five Years really helped me reflect on the mistakes I made. I definitely was a Cathy...yikes.
I literally saw The Last Five Years in London a week ago and now theatres have closed yet again
Lucky
Same...so good...the show I mean not theatres closing!
@@robhughes3043 yes the show was amazing! Did you see it at the southwark?
@@sashabrown7793 I did...a few Saturdays back at the matinée...I thought both actors were superb and the simple staging worked well for the most part (I think the opposite side to where I was sitting may have had more actor backs to them than my side 😆)...but then I saw the film this weekend and now I'm not sure what I preferred...the film offered a lot more 'filling in' detail so I got the story even more...plus...Anna Kendrick 😍...I wouldn't say no to a Southwark Cast Recording though! Not sure on the individual perspex prison I was in - safe absolutely but a little squashed
@@robhughes3043 yes! I thought the actors and staging was brilliant - so glad to have been able to seen it, amazing show
Parts of this musical really echo my last relationship. It's weirdly comforting to hear so many people are at least able to sympathise with Cathy. I often worry that the reason my ex left me is because I smothered him or was too insecure/needy. We were very young when we got together and ended up living together for four years (dating for six), though we never got married (thank god!) The funny thing is, I think being in a relationship with him was part of what led my self esteem and independence to deteriorate. In our relationship, he was definitely the one holding me back, and it caused a lot of friction between us. I shouldn't have stayed with him as long as I did, because I wasn't happy, and I think eventually that made him unhappy. I didn't want to accept that he was holding me back. I thought if he loved me and I was committed enough then we could make it work. In my eyes, I was making a compromise, and that was what love was about. But I think I compromised more than he was ever willing to. Part of the problem was that I was so committed to seeing things from his point of view- being able to empathise with someone is never a bad thing, but it doesn't make your point of view less valid. Both perspectives are equally true, which was something I found really difficult to get my head around. If both are true, it seems so unfair that anyone should have to suffer. Ultimately, I think his parents were the true catalysts, and they had their own reasons for wanting to control his life. When we broke up, he was just beginning therapy, and I truly hope he has found peace in his life.
I was heartbroken when he left me, but a year's gone by, I'm a lot better off, more confident and I've been able to work on goals I've had for years. I'm relieved that we didn't stay together. I've learned that if I ignore or minimise my own perspective in comparison to someone else's for long enough, it just makes me bitter and frustrated and not a very nice person to be around. I don't want to be like that to someone. I just wish people knew my side of the story sometimes. It's not something I've shared with many people other than close friends. So, I just thought I'd share this in case anyone out there is in a rocky relationship and happens to read this.
Ok FULLY AGREE on the timing thing and each of their faults but KATHY WAS 23 .. so her faults can be matured/grown out of eventually. Jaime starts as an egomaniac and goes full douche. Both wrong but Jaime was wrongererest.
Jaime was also 23, he says that in "Moving Too Fast". They were both young and emotionally immature.
I'm team, "teach people how to prioritize exploring compatibility in the early stages of a relationship, recognizing red flags, and not forcing things."
Team Cathy because I relate too much to her and am scared to acknowledge my deep seeded insecurities ✨😃✨
You should definitely have Musical Theatre Internet Cult t-shirts that say things like, one of my favorite lines of yours, "first we take over braodway and then the world" as well as things like "all hail Sondheim", etc. I would totally buy and I think other members would too😊
Ok, So I was team Cathy when I was like 14-23 when I first saw the show then kept listening to it. Last year I worked on a production (quick changes) of it. I very soon noticed Cathy's flaws and some of the things Jamie said related to me 'I won't fail for you to be comfortable Cathy, I won't lose because you can't win' REALLY changed me.... So i'd say I'm team Jamie now (we also did have a female Jamie in one of our casts and it worked so well and could have influenced this). Yes Jamie cheated and that's unforgivable... but Cathy was responsible for the downfall before that stage.
wrote this before watching so will see if I do change my mind..... But also, yes both at fault and just bad for eachother
I get this angle, BUT he cheated on her instead of breaking up with her so he made himself the villain. Regardless of any of her faults, he should have left instead of staying and cheating
@@AimeeIsAUnicorn fair and that was my view a year ago. Cheating aside, they're both incredibly flawed and when i was younger I didn't see Cathy's flaws.
@@sharnaeks7800 Cathy is really flawed and so is Jamie. But, everyone is blaming Jamie for cheating which is understandable. However, no one's acknowledging him for not wanting to cheat. You can see the scene when she saw the secretary and other girls. Also, in the bar. Cathy "losing" affected the Winning Jamie so he cheated. I'm not saying it's a good reason and there will never be good reason to back up cheating. To say, Cathy's weaknesses brought out Jamie's.
@@siem9329 No. He chose to cheat. No one made him.
So I'm on all teams! I have been Jaime and Cathy in a few different relationships. My [first] marriage was so much like theirs. We may could have made it work with more counseling. But also the relationship had run its course and we grew in different directions.
I have given up on dating and romance, just not interested in it anymore. But if I ever do get into one, my dream is that my partner will watch the show with me and we will have many hours of discussion about it. :)
Team narrator, just like you. Both have valid points, and both were in the wrong. Both are self-absorbed and both have a drive to be loved and supported, and be the main character in their own and their spouse's lives. And that's why I love it so much.
This musical reminded me of that famous quote from Marilyn Monroe, the "if you don't want me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best" thing that is toxic as hell. Great break-down, new fan
I WAS LISTENING TO A MIRACLE WOULD HAPPEN WHEN I GOT THE NOTIFICATION AND I AM NOW CONVINCED THAT KAT IS READING MY MIND.
It is so great to hear someone that I agree with on this topic. I’ve argued with friends for years that the beauty of The Last Five Years (aside from its incredible score) is that Jamie and Cathy are both at fault. It’s a toxic relationship and I think it is destined to fail, not necessarily from the very beginning, but certainly from early on. I think the poison is Jamie’s success, but it is how they both respond and cope with that, that is the reason their marriage fails.
I highly recommend streaming the Southwark Playhouse production at the end of the month. I saw it live twice in London. I’ve seen several versions of the show, but this (for me, certainly) is absolutely the best production. Both performers are wonderful, but it is Molly Lynch’s Cathy that was interesting. I think Cathy can often be played as quite weak, but her Cathy made me see the character differently. It’s also an actor-musician show, which adds a whole extra level. I could talk about the production for hours! Really recommend giving it a watch. Be interested to hear what you think.
P.S. love the La La Land poster behind you! 😃
Okay but the sponsored section is iconic 😂
Been a whole 10 seconds into the video before I said outloud "You good Kat?"
I’m definitely team “they both ruined the relationship” but something I feel like no one ever talks about is how Jamie used Cathy for his career. I think he was always in love with the idea of her as his muse not actually who she is and that leads to him never actually supporting her. There’s clues to this all over Jamie’s songs. It’s also hard for him to separate his career and Cathy. A lot of times he’s talking about both in relation to each other which is super unfair to Cathy. He doesn’t even see her as an individual so how would she ever find the validation she desperately craves him to give her (which of course she should be finding elsewhere, this is one of her flaws as discussed). Anyway, I could talk about this show forever it’s so nuanced and I love that about it.
A while ago when I was first getting into musical theater, I saw a tik tok video ranking the people who played Aaron Samuels. Me, not knowing anything, asked where Kyle Selig was because he was absent from the list. Turns out, he got resented by people because he broke up with Erika Henningson. I kept asking how this affects how he played the character and sings, and I just kept getting blocked
Funniest thing to ever happen to me involving musical theater
AND APPARENTLY THEY DIDNT EVEN BREAK UP?????
Yassssssss tysm for this, I think about this at a minimum every other day, and I’ve been waiting for you to do another video on thissss I love youuuuu
FIRST WE TAKEOVER BROADWAY, AND THEN THE WORLD SHE BROUGHT IT BACK YESSSSS--
What I love about this musical is that it tells an incredible story of two incredibly flawed people. It doesn’t make either one look good.
YESSS someone finally said it! I am always getting into heated internet discussions about this. Cathy was smothering him sooo much. She was also jealous in a time when he was so supportive of her. Does that mean that the cheating was justified? Nooo, he could have told her that he wants to end this BEFORE he started cheating on her. So yes both are definitely at fault, but I believe that the first cracks were made by Cathy...
Can you please do a tier list of your favorite musicals? Im really curious about musicals you like and you don't
i very rarely rewatch a video solely for the ad... but this time... oh my god
That was one of the best paid promo skits I've ever seen.
When I first saw it I was team Jaime bc I could relate to his optimistic personality more than Cathy who just seemed like a downer. But as I’ve grown older I’m now team Cathy because to me cheating automatically is a disqualification and A Miracle Would Happen makes me really sympathize with Cathy who was in a relationship that was doomed from the moment they got married.