Way to go Hobbs!! Danny for the waveguides, another option to consider is a 3D printing service bureau like xometry. You’d avoid tooling but be able to still scale. You could try a powder based 3D printing technology, like HP’s MultiJetFusion, rather than fused deposition modelling as the layer thickness of powder based printers is thinner so surface finish is much smoother. Full disclosure, I work at HP!
Danny, this is why I love your channel! The destail of your explanations usually cover any crazy questions I usually have! From what I've learned here and on my own, I can usually understand why different speakers sound the way they do and how to improve on them! ❤
Insight into the amount of work that excellent speaker designers put into speaker designs. A true labor of love. I have heard that tweeter and it is very musical.
IMO Joseph Crowe makes the best speakers in the world. (I'm biased towards high efficiency designs; big horns and big woofers) Unfortunately they're crazy expensive, so for budget minded people, DIY is still the way to go (or kits). There are great horns and compression drivers you can buy off the shelf, and great 15" woofers, and then you can use a miniDSP flex to do the crossover so that you can take measurements and tune it perfectly the way you want. With parametric EQ capability built in, you can also easily make such speakers full range or close to it. 20hz may be a challenge, but 30hz is easy, all day every day. And I don't mean -10 or -6 or -3db at 30hz... I mean effectively infinite output (being reasonable of course... but I mean as loud as any sane person wants to have it) at 30hz, so if you like your custom EQ curve with a BOOST, not flat, in the low bass, you can get boosted output to 30hz or below with a custom 15" design speaker, and even with affordable compression drivers and horns, either 1" or 1.4", there are multiple options that allow you to cross at 1khz or lower (even 700-800hz, without getting into a huge horn or a larger CD), which is absolutely no problem for a good pro 15" with the right specs. Yes the center to center spacing is bigger, so keep them mounted as close together as you can, and the vertical off axis is not going to be as good as a little speaker from Danny, I get that, but listening on-axis, you're not going to care, not if you prioritize effortless HUGE dynamics and impact. High sensitivity speakers also typically have the inherent advantage of sounding better at low volumes (counter-intuitively), and have great micro-dynamics. When it comes to distortion, they will always win, because the excursion required from 15" woofers and horn loaded CD's is SO tiny compared to small drivers and flat baffle dome tweeters, that when they're played at typical home listening levels, they're barely moving and the distortion is NIL. They just happen to also be capable of concert levels in your house, and bass that makes a sub utterly unnecessary for everything but movies. 1", and many modern 1.4" CDs can also stretch all the way from 1khz or lower to 15-20khz (depending on the horn and CD, and yes some beaming is unavoidable... they'll narrow up in the top octave, always... but you're listening on axis!), so you can easily make this a true full range 2-way design for simplicity. But as Crowe's designs demonstrate, in the higher end, sometimes crossing to another tweeter for content above 8-10khz can still bring further advantages, just like adding subs for the bottom octave/octave and a half would, but crossing at 80hz is not necessary, which is a good thing... that's not a great place to have to cross, the discontinuity is often audible, either due to timbre changes or localization... the lower you can cross, to a point, the better... let the subs do the LOW LOW stuff, while electric and upright bass or piano doesn't get into that crossover range at all, and is all done by the one woofer, keeping perfect tonality and continuity and imaging.
I am very pleased you have a protégée like Hobbs so GR-Research will last past us older folks! I would love to see an X-(S)LS Encore offering with the M-165/GR Neo 3 pairing. I know that may take some work, but I love my X-LS Encores and would be willing to give them to my son if those became available. 😁 Congrats Hobbs!
That dip in the response with the cup at 3000Hz fits with a quarter wavelength resonnance/cancellation in the back cup. My reasoning: 3000Hz has a wavelength of 11.4cm and 1/4 of that is 2.85cm. That cup looks to be 2.85 cm deep! Trick is to make a shorter/ or longer cup to not create standing waves in the back cup! I dont think compliance is that comes into play in this situation. I've loaded ribbons before with diy waveguides and I've not had this issue with large suckouts in the response. Finding the reason behinds non wanted response changes can be tricky and often related to soundwave physics. Anyways I like these tech talks and it'll help ppl to understand what is a well designed speaker and what is just marketing hype.
The rear cup is way to well damped to allow any back wave. It is just dealing with back pressure, but I like how you are thinking. That very often applies.
Wow, awesome to hear Hobbs did the development on this one, super excited to hear about customers listening impressions, VERY cool new product. Congrats GR crew. 👏🏼👍🏼
Hi Danny, may I suggest adding a background light for your video presentation? A small light aimed at the curtains behind you will provide the separation between you and the speakers you are highlighting and the curtains. Try it with a flashlight first. I think you will like the results.
I think it's nearly perfect. The contrasting velvet black background creates impactfully sharp color pop for the relevant items of importance. I see a few other similiar comments, but I also see a few of those in favor. It looks good in my viewing via phone and an 85" Sony.
@@FOH3663 Yes indeed, the contrast is very good. From my background as a portrait photographer, adding a background light keeps the contrast but adds separation. This will benefit all those black ash and black satin speakers that Danny puts on his work table. If we want to get really fancy, we could add a hair/rim light for even further separation. :)
@@davidbardes8233 All valid points, agreed. Fascinating how there's often such a link between audio and photography. I never pursued portrait work, but I've been into photography, cinematography, ... since the 70's. Countless slides, print film, Super8mm, Super VHS, Hi8, then into DV, etc. Not portrait work per se, but weddings since the 80's. It's remarkable how many older audio dudes similarly dabble into visual capture. Thank you Appreciate the civil discourse.
@@FOH3663 Ha! it's true. And OMG weddings! Yikes, Mamiya RB67s with Vivitar 283 flashes attached with brackets and external battery packs. My back hurts just thinking about it!
Just to let you know Danny, you have created a monster within me!😂😊I now have NO working speakers that I can listen to and two large rooms reverse engineering everything I can get my hands on for free. The only thing I have been able to buy (I am a disabled process engineer) is test equipment and some decent parts (caps, inductors, etc.). So now I have a little work fixing a few speakers that is going to generate a little cash. It’s been fun so far and has shown me a little light in this sometimes not so fair life we all live. Thank you! And well now I have to sell some of this stuff I have fixed and has completely overwhelmed my life 😂 and well now build something great I can listen to.
Hopefully this means you will bring back a new version of the N3. I sold my similar Carnegie version to a friend when i got my NX-Oticas and i regularly hear them and still love them.
Wow, great and extensive research, that's going to be a killer little speaker. While not practical I love those huge waveguides you made, looks similar to what I've been playing around with on the big Heil AMT by adding the 3 inch round foam to both front edges and getting fantastic results.
The big ones remind me of the waveguides/controlled dispersion horns that Joseph Crowe makes for his excellent horn speakers with compression drivers. He always has great results for low extension as well.
Looks really impressive, congrats Hobbs! If you were to use this in a small room home theater setup with subs for the front L/R, what would be a good center channel match, or any possibility that a NX Bravo center channel would be on the way?
I volunteer with Special Olympics a whole bunch, my mentor Charlie told me when he first brought me on to his basketball committee. "Give a good person a good opportunity and you'll see some great things." Way to go Hobbs, these look sensational. And tip of the cap to you Danny for giving a good person a good opportunity. The start of great things, well done to both.
impressive speaker might be just what i am looking for, high end sound and small speaker, looks quite deep tho, maybe ported? i am looking for sealed. and with crossover that low and mtm version would work quite well and without not much added cost i think, then i could play louder or have more bass extension.
We've used the Purifi woofers. I like them better than ours below 100Hz, but above 1kHz or so our lighter weight moving mass drivers are faster and cleaner. It's a trade off. If you want it all go with the lighter weight faster drivers and use a larger woofer below 100Hz.
He was in one of the New Record Day videos on head phones one time, but he is a little more camera shy than I am. It is not easy, from what I have been told, to just turn on the camera and start talking and explaining. Sometimes I really don't know how I do it and by the next day wonder if I covered everything I had in my head or not. I have to watch the video to see what I said. :-)
@@dannyrichie9743 I feel with him. I do a live stream for new beekeepers every week, but I am still almost stressed out when hitting the "start" button and have to plan what I tell my audience.
@@ludgermerkens I honestly never rehearse, write out, or plan anything. I have an idea in my head or a mass of thoughts and I just hit record and start talking.
Could you do a video on the differences between a 2 way and 3 way? Benefits etc. if both measure relatively flat, what are the benefits of 3 way? Also love to see you do more studio monitors , ie Focal Shape, Adam Audio etc. even just testing them would be great info to inform buyers/users.
This was fun. I geek out on details like this and it was interesting/shocking seeing how much difference the waveguide can make. That NX-Bravo looks really interesting, I can't wait to hear them. Oh... crap! Does this mean that I will finally have to build a set of GR Research speakers? 😁 Will these really coalesce close enough to work as desktop speakers? One caveat: for some reason I have a strong preference for 6 1/2" speakers over 5 1/4". Probably a combination of the slightly higher efficiency and slightly lower bottom end. Are you looking into doing an NX-LS Encore? I think that would be even more deadly!
When Ron did the comparison between the LGK 2.4 and XLS Encore I believe this is the speaker he made reference to which combined the strengths of both those speakers. I’ve been waiting for this announcement.
@@dannyrichie9743Can you share /remind us which one that was? Excellent explanation and presentation, and as one other comment noted maybe just add a rare upfiring flood light to illuminate the rear wall and give you video a greater sense of depth of image - something fans of your speakers could appreciate.
@@fonkenful Hang on. More information on that new stuff is coming. We are doing some really special things with the 3" LGK driver and the results were crazy good. The first model sets a new benchmark in imaging and sound stage layering as well as the quality of the vocal region.
@@dannyrichie9743 As a now retired DIYER, long time fan of 3 - 4” full range drivers and general fan of your speaker work, I’m looking forward to seeing that. I’m assuming Ron has, or will be making some of his excellent sound shed recordings with your new models?
@@fonkenful You will be very please with what I have created, and yes you will hear about them from Ron. I basically just created what he wanted and give him full input on everything.
I wonder how much the MATERIAL of the waveguide affects the sound (if at all). Would a denser/deader plastic or even printable metal or ceramic-like material be better? JBL's new horn is a stone-like material.
I was wondering if the shape of the horn er rather wave guide has anything in common with shapes of such. Like the traktrix shape or any other etc etc?
Black shirt in black room doesn't work.... Welcome to my world! That is calibration problems, which I strive to fix for all on my channel. .A 'horn' is exactly a megaphone. .A 'wave guide' is exactly as it's name suggests. .But they both do the same thing somewhat to lesser degrees. They funnel or shape or spread sound wave propagation. .Wave guides creating pressure on a diaphragm can only happen in the throat. Once released into open air, the guide does what it does to dispersion. Tweeters are fun..... Not! Planner Tweeters, my personal favorite, back side matters as much as the front side. Much like any speaker. Material matters as much as anything else. Some of these are made of aero space aluminum. Better companies will point blank tell you it's titanium. The rest use Mylar of various quality. And it all works at least as well as a domed tweeter, most often better than! You really shocked me with that MDF wave guide. That's a real thing! What does it do in a box though? I agree in almost every thing here. But I would caution about letting these paper thin planar tweeters play low. Just because they can don't mean they can forever. Low freq ='s more x-mas movement ='s quicker to break from material flexing. Don't stop using 5 DB scales or less, some of us really really really do care that much! Spectral decay shows long lasting problems, but relates to tonality. This new speaker looks great from pin point frequency to resonance. I really like what you've done here overall. More videos like this please. Cheers 🍻
Very interesting and thanks for the detailed information😁 despite the use of a dome tweeter, the results and your way of thinking seems to me very similar to the Satori Helios 9.5" 2-Way Speaker... I would even recommend you to look at it🙏... the crossover of the tweeter is 1.3kh! by the way is it one of the secret "new record day" ron speaker?😛
Well, Danny...sounds, no pun intended, excellent and I look forward to its arrival. So, what are its current requirements? And as an aside is there a Small Open Baffle speaker coming in our future You did mention that Tweeter with 3, 3" Woofer / Mid Driver's which only wetted my imagination.
Believe it or NOT "Square with rounded corners that tapers to a circle" (Velocity Stack) flows more air, than Round Cones with regards to VELOCITY Stacks on engines...... Extrudabody research.....
Hi Danny, would speakers stands be available for these special speakers coming? Would these speakers be able to be bolted to the speakers stands? Thanks in advance.
The goal isn't to cannibalize the Studio, so I doubt we'll have plans for a M165 version any time soon. An MTM/center version would likely be the next step.
@@hoth2112a centre that’s capable of a controlled wide off axis with reference output capabilities using the Neo 3 is going to shock the home theatre market! Floor standing towers that match the centre to follow would be a great direction for this new product line, really looking forward to seeing it develop, congratulations.
Incredible! How do you go about analyzing distortion and compression in terms of limitations of the driver? Does that change much from the results you get in the design stage of the driver vs the design of a speaker? Or is it basically just brand trust with Peerless?
Most of that is a misnomer. It really has no value to a point. Small changes in measured distortion don't really equate to what we hear. It is only when things really do South or really fall apart that things like distortion become apparent. Most speakers can be driven to points where they fall apart or compress but that usually comes well beyond normal listening levels. So it is not much of a concern.
@@dannyrichie9743 that's super helpful. I really appreciate you clarifying that. Perhaps it might be a worthwhile tech talk topic if it gets asked enough, but I've not really seen it come up. Thanks again!
it's not impossible, but the further the distance from center to center the more difficult it is to keep the drivers in phase over a wide area. most tweeters are limited to 1500-3000Hz. For a 12" woofer. You will need a crossover point at or below 1000Hz to maintain coherence over a wide area. the larger 3" deep horn could do that easy, crossing as low as 700Hz.
Thanks for this video Danny very informative. I do have a question though, when people say that a speaker will work in a small to medium room, what is the measurements for a small medium or large room.? My room is 17‘ x 27‘ with an 8 x 10‘ alcove , now is that medium, large….? Again, thanks…
For most people in the world, that is a large room. For people here in the USA it is a medium sized room. In Texas, it's a small room. :-) Larger air spaces swallow up bottom end. You room is well suited for large speakers or the use of added subs.
@@dannyrichie9743 …. Thanks for the reply, everything in Texas is larger 😁 The info about the room sucking up the base is great information. Here in Connecticut my room is probably medium/large I would say. Thanks again.
So much talk about the wave guide in an open baffle speaker then you offer us a box speaker kit. When will these developments be offered in a smallish open baffle design?
@@Bob-hq5lj It can still leave a gap between them. A woofer like the M-130 would only be -3db down in the 200 to 300Hz region in an open baffle by its self. That is a long way to push a sub and makes placement critical to blending them.
@@dannyrichie9743 Good point. I'm looking for a mid priced new speaker more exotic than a box enclosure instead of trying a 5 foot used Martin Logan or Magnepan
@@Bob-hq5lj Our X-Statik model bridges that gap from the open baffle woofers, to a sealed pair of woofers below, and then to our servo subs. The results are excellent.
DAAAAAAMMMM those bagel wave guide responses were unreal flat!
Good for your hemorrhoids...
I like the MDF one very much!
Way to go Hobbs!! Danny for the waveguides, another option to consider is a 3D printing service bureau like xometry. You’d avoid tooling but be able to still scale. You could try a powder based 3D printing technology, like HP’s MultiJetFusion, rather than fused deposition modelling as the layer thickness of powder based printers is thinner so surface finish is much smoother. Full disclosure, I work at HP!
Yes to SLA and MJF! In the US I would suggest ProtoLabs and outside the US I have used JLBPCB, either one I would highly recommend.
Danny, this is why I love your channel! The destail of your explanations usually cover any crazy questions I usually have! From what I've learned here and on my own, I can usually understand why different speakers sound the way they do and how to improve on them! ❤
Insight into the amount of work that excellent speaker designers put into speaker designs. A true labor of love. I have heard that tweeter and it is very musical.
Nice wave guide. Reminds me of the Joseph Crowe Horn No.1931 -- ES Front Horn for GRS PT6825 Planar Tweeter (goes down to 500 Hz)
My thoughts exactly!
Those have no top end though..not suitable for a tweeter IMO
IMO Joseph Crowe makes the best speakers in the world. (I'm biased towards high efficiency designs; big horns and big woofers) Unfortunately they're crazy expensive, so for budget minded people, DIY is still the way to go (or kits). There are great horns and compression drivers you can buy off the shelf, and great 15" woofers, and then you can use a miniDSP flex to do the crossover so that you can take measurements and tune it perfectly the way you want. With parametric EQ capability built in, you can also easily make such speakers full range or close to it. 20hz may be a challenge, but 30hz is easy, all day every day. And I don't mean -10 or -6 or -3db at 30hz... I mean effectively infinite output (being reasonable of course... but I mean as loud as any sane person wants to have it) at 30hz, so if you like your custom EQ curve with a BOOST, not flat, in the low bass, you can get boosted output to 30hz or below with a custom 15" design speaker, and even with affordable compression drivers and horns, either 1" or 1.4", there are multiple options that allow you to cross at 1khz or lower (even 700-800hz, without getting into a huge horn or a larger CD), which is absolutely no problem for a good pro 15" with the right specs. Yes the center to center spacing is bigger, so keep them mounted as close together as you can, and the vertical off axis is not going to be as good as a little speaker from Danny, I get that, but listening on-axis, you're not going to care, not if you prioritize effortless HUGE dynamics and impact. High sensitivity speakers also typically have the inherent advantage of sounding better at low volumes (counter-intuitively), and have great micro-dynamics. When it comes to distortion, they will always win, because the excursion required from 15" woofers and horn loaded CD's is SO tiny compared to small drivers and flat baffle dome tweeters, that when they're played at typical home listening levels, they're barely moving and the distortion is NIL. They just happen to also be capable of concert levels in your house, and bass that makes a sub utterly unnecessary for everything but movies. 1", and many modern 1.4" CDs can also stretch all the way from 1khz or lower to 15-20khz (depending on the horn and CD, and yes some beaming is unavoidable... they'll narrow up in the top octave, always... but you're listening on axis!), so you can easily make this a true full range 2-way design for simplicity. But as Crowe's designs demonstrate, in the higher end, sometimes crossing to another tweeter for content above 8-10khz can still bring further advantages, just like adding subs for the bottom octave/octave and a half would, but crossing at 80hz is not necessary, which is a good thing... that's not a great place to have to cross, the discontinuity is often audible, either due to timbre changes or localization... the lower you can cross, to a point, the better... let the subs do the LOW LOW stuff, while electric and upright bass or piano doesn't get into that crossover range at all, and is all done by the one woofer, keeping perfect tonality and continuity and imaging.
Congratulations Hobbs!!! Well done!
I am very pleased you have a protégée like Hobbs so GR-Research will last past us older folks! I would love to see an X-(S)LS Encore offering with the M-165/GR Neo 3 pairing. I know that may take some work, but I love my X-LS Encores and would be willing to give them to my son if those became available. 😁 Congrats Hobbs!
Great work Hobbs!!
Hat tip to you Hobbs! and Danny for cutting the talent loose to see what they can do for your company.
That dip in the response with the cup at 3000Hz fits with a quarter wavelength resonnance/cancellation in the back cup. My reasoning: 3000Hz has a wavelength of 11.4cm and 1/4 of that is 2.85cm. That cup looks to be 2.85 cm deep! Trick is to make a shorter/ or longer cup to not create standing waves in the back cup! I dont think compliance is that comes into play in this situation. I've loaded ribbons before with diy waveguides and I've not had this issue with large suckouts in the response. Finding the reason behinds non wanted response changes can be tricky and often related to soundwave physics. Anyways I like these tech talks and it'll help ppl to understand what is a well designed speaker and what is just marketing hype.
The rear cup is way to well damped to allow any back wave. It is just dealing with back pressure, but I like how you are thinking. That very often applies.
Wow, awesome to hear Hobbs did the development on this one, super excited to hear about customers listening impressions, VERY cool new product. Congrats GR crew. 👏🏼👍🏼
Hi Danny, may I suggest adding a background light for your video presentation? A small light aimed at the curtains behind you will provide the separation between you and the speakers you are highlighting and the curtains. Try it with a flashlight first. I think you will like the results.
Good tip. Thanks!
I think it's nearly perfect.
The contrasting velvet black background creates impactfully sharp color pop for the relevant items of importance.
I see a few other similiar comments, but I also see a few of those in favor.
It looks good in my viewing via phone and an 85" Sony.
@@FOH3663 Yes indeed, the contrast is very good. From my background as a portrait photographer, adding a background light keeps the contrast but adds separation. This will benefit all those black ash and black satin speakers that Danny puts on his work table. If we want to get really fancy, we could add a hair/rim light for even further separation. :)
@@davidbardes8233
All valid points, agreed.
Fascinating how there's often such a link between audio and photography.
I never pursued portrait work, but I've been into photography, cinematography, ... since the 70's.
Countless slides, print film, Super8mm, Super VHS, Hi8, then into DV, etc.
Not portrait work per se, but weddings since the 80's.
It's remarkable how many older audio dudes similarly dabble into visual capture.
Thank you
Appreciate the civil discourse.
@@FOH3663 Ha! it's true. And OMG weddings! Yikes, Mamiya RB67s with Vivitar 283 flashes attached with brackets and external battery packs. My back hurts just thinking about it!
Just to let you know Danny, you have created a monster within me!😂😊I now have NO working speakers that I can listen to and two large rooms reverse engineering everything I can get my hands on for free. The only thing I have been able to buy (I am a disabled process engineer) is test equipment and some decent parts (caps, inductors, etc.). So now I have a little work fixing a few speakers that is going to generate a little cash. It’s been fun so far and has shown me a little light in this sometimes not so fair life we all live. Thank you! And well now I have to sell some of this stuff I have fixed and has completely overwhelmed my life 😂 and well now build something great I can listen to.
Hopefully this means you will bring back a new version of the N3. I sold my similar Carnegie version to a friend when i got my NX-Oticas and i regularly hear them and still love them.
nice work, hobbs!
Wow, great and extensive research, that's going to be a killer little speaker. While not practical I love those huge waveguides you made, looks similar to what I've been playing around with on the big Heil AMT by adding the 3 inch round foam to both front edges and getting fantastic results.
Fantastic work!
very cool design Hobbs. unreal spec decay
I’ve been pretty satisfied with my X-series speakers and stopped looking for other speakers. But these NX Bravos look great and sound very compelling.
The big ones remind me of the waveguides/controlled dispersion horns that Joseph Crowe makes for his excellent horn speakers with compression drivers. He always has great results for low extension as well.
This is cool and all but it would be nice to hear some more about future plans for the domed mid/tweeter pod your team has been working on
That's coming.
What great information and well done video. Thanks Danny.
Been hearing about Hobbs for some years nows. Congratulations, all I hear is good things. Keep it up.
You're taking the right next steps with that tweeter. This is great!
Nice looking speakers Danny,
Im planning on buying a new pair of speakers in the next few months.
I'll keep checking your website.
Nice job Hobbs!!
Congrats to Hobbs. Good job! 🎉
Way to go Hobbs and congrats GR Research
Great stuff Hobbs.
Hobbs!! Great work
Looks really impressive, congrats Hobbs! If you were to use this in a small room home theater setup with subs for the front L/R, what would be a good center channel match, or any possibility that a NX Bravo center channel would be on the way?
We may follow it with an NX MTM style version if there is a demand for it.
@@dannyrichie9743 Awesome! 🤞
Always like the Tech Talk-style videos.👍
I volunteer with Special Olympics a whole bunch, my mentor Charlie told me when he first brought me on to his basketball committee. "Give a good person a good opportunity and you'll see some great things." Way to go Hobbs, these look sensational. And tip of the cap to you Danny for giving a good person a good opportunity. The start of great things, well done to both.
Looks amazing Danny. Can't wait to see the end product!!
Oh and you guys do incredible things!
Love watching your videos! Very informative and love your work. Keep it up!
Outstanding work Hobbs. Now I will wait for the MTM version, can anyone say N3?
Would really like to see what Hobbs might do with a quality compression driver! Nice work.
impressive speaker might be just what i am looking for, high end sound and small speaker, looks quite deep tho, maybe ported? i am looking for sealed.
and with crossover that low and mtm version would work quite well and without not much added cost i think, then i could play louder or have more bass extension.
Amazing work!
Also top video Danny tnx.
Great looking little speaker.. I'm an old school JBL guy so wave guides speak to me..
Nice shaped speaker, i wish to have 3dB response mid 42Hz , purifi woofers etc.
We've used the Purifi woofers. I like them better than ours below 100Hz, but above 1kHz or so our lighter weight moving mass drivers are faster and cleaner. It's a trade off. If you want it all go with the lighter weight faster drivers and use a larger woofer below 100Hz.
I want those! I love anything horn or big or deep waveguides. don't care for dome tweeters on flat baffles. I like ribbons and AMT's too.
next step in the evolution of hobbs - he comes in front of the camera and tells from his perspective how he did the development.
He was in one of the New Record Day videos on head phones one time, but he is a little more camera shy than I am. It is not easy, from what I have been told, to just turn on the camera and start talking and explaining. Sometimes I really don't know how I do it and by the next day wonder if I covered everything I had in my head or not. I have to watch the video to see what I said. :-)
@@dannyrichie9743 I feel with him. I do a live stream for new beekeepers every week, but I am still almost stressed out when hitting the "start" button and have to plan what I tell my audience.
@@ludgermerkens I honestly never rehearse, write out, or plan anything. I have an idea in my head or a mass of thoughts and I just hit record and start talking.
Thank you for all your hard work to share this knowledge
Very informative
Most impressive!
Lovely to see, Danny
Great video.
The cliff notes of this episode might read..."diffraction is not your friend".
Nice, hope that tweeter can make it to other models as well.
Fascinating
Could you do a video on the differences between a 2 way and 3 way? Benefits etc. if both measure relatively flat, what are the benefits of 3 way? Also love to see you do more studio monitors , ie Focal Shape, Adam Audio etc. even just testing them would be great info to inform buyers/users.
Danny, have you thought about making a larger, three-way version? Now that the most difficult part of the design work has been done (one assumes)?
We could....
2.5 way perhaps?
@@JohnRogers0014 We'll see.
You should look at resin 3d printers. You could do more units at a time.
Imagine a variable wave guide ...😮
Speak to folks who do plastic molding. You can blow out those waveguides easily. I don't know what plastic would work best.
This looks great. I would love to see what you can do with that AMT combined with the soft dome midrange from the last video
Interesting. Needs a Klippel measurement.
Could have them made out of solid cast iron. Lost sand method. Couldnt be that expensive.
All this time I could just put my Hemorrhoid cushion on my speaker instead of sitting on it? MIND & BEHIND BLOWN!!!
This was fun. I geek out on details like this and it was interesting/shocking seeing how much difference the waveguide can make.
That NX-Bravo looks really interesting, I can't wait to hear them. Oh... crap! Does this mean that I will finally have to build a set of GR Research speakers? 😁 Will these really coalesce close enough to work as desktop speakers?
One caveat: for some reason I have a strong preference for 6 1/2" speakers over 5 1/4". Probably a combination of the slightly higher efficiency and slightly lower bottom end. Are you looking into doing an NX-LS Encore? I think that would be even more deadly!
I haft to say I'm happy with the x series but I would like to build and have NX series now I'd like to have these as well
I'd like to see the comparison charts off axis with the rods vs without. It should help maintain the upper highs off axis.
The horizontal off-axis was overall very similar, the main differences was a roughly 1db boost between 6-9Khz.
Hobbs you legend! Nicely done. Exciting to see the new speaker. Get a set over to Ron and Randy to review.
👌
Now you have me very interested.
How to implement big waveguide? Mold and cast. Pour in with a material that hardens. Ship it
fascinating stuff tweeters are super picky
When Ron did the comparison between the LGK 2.4 and XLS Encore I believe this is the speaker he made reference to which combined the strengths of both those speakers. I’ve been waiting for this announcement.
Nope, this one isn't it.
@@dannyrichie9743Can you share /remind us which one that was? Excellent explanation and presentation, and as one other comment noted maybe just add a rare upfiring flood light to illuminate the rear wall and give you video a greater sense of depth of image - something fans of your speakers could appreciate.
@@fonkenful Hang on. More information on that new stuff is coming. We are doing some really special things with the 3" LGK driver and the results were crazy good. The first model sets a new benchmark in imaging and sound stage layering as well as the quality of the vocal region.
@@dannyrichie9743 As a now retired DIYER, long time fan of 3 - 4” full range drivers and general fan of your speaker work, I’m looking forward to seeing that. I’m assuming Ron has, or will be making some of his excellent sound shed recordings with your new models?
@@fonkenful You will be very please with what I have created, and yes you will hear about them from Ron. I basically just created what he wanted and give him full input on everything.
Bull nose edge design looks best on speakers
I wonder how much the MATERIAL of the waveguide affects the sound (if at all). Would a denser/deader plastic or even printable metal or ceramic-like material be better? JBL's new horn is a stone-like material.
In my experience it does not really matter so long as there is no ringing from it.
Danny and Hobbs?I always thought it was Calvin and Hobbs.
👍 Nice Were you being Hobb's Calvin?
I was wondering if the shape of the horn er rather wave guide has anything in common with shapes of such. Like the traktrix shape or any other etc etc?
Good work!
What’s the best crossover frequency with a sub to keep that mid as distortion free as possible.
Something in the 60 to 80Hz range is good if you want to drive them hard.
Enough talk, when do we hear them
Hi. I was surprised that I didn't see the graphs of the impedance curves on your website for the drivers. Why don't you have them listed?
We'll add that.
Black shirt in black room doesn't work.... Welcome to my world! That is calibration problems, which I strive to fix for all on my channel.
.A 'horn' is exactly a megaphone.
.A 'wave guide' is exactly as it's name suggests.
.But they both do the same thing somewhat to lesser degrees. They funnel or shape or spread sound wave propagation.
.Wave guides creating pressure on a diaphragm can only happen in the throat. Once released into open air, the guide does what it does to dispersion.
Tweeters are fun..... Not!
Planner Tweeters, my personal favorite, back side matters as much as the front side. Much like any speaker.
Material matters as much as anything else. Some of these are made of aero space aluminum. Better companies will point blank tell you it's titanium. The rest use Mylar of various quality. And it all works at least as well as a domed tweeter, most often better than!
You really shocked me with that MDF wave guide. That's a real thing! What does it do in a box though?
I agree in almost every thing here. But I would caution about letting these paper thin planar tweeters play low. Just because they can don't mean they can forever. Low freq ='s more x-mas movement ='s quicker to break from material flexing.
Don't stop using 5 DB scales or less, some of us really really really do care that much!
Spectral decay shows long lasting problems, but relates to tonality.
This new speaker looks great from pin point frequency to resonance.
I really like what you've done here overall. More videos like this please.
Cheers 🍻
Can you cast produce that big waveguide?
Next up NX Old School?
lol, I do have a drawing in SketchUp that I did for fun.. 4x M130 and 2x 12" servo subs. probably not gunna happen though lol
To any speaker manufacture, you are the scariest component 20224!!
Very interesting and thanks for the detailed information😁 despite the use of a dome tweeter, the results and your way of thinking seems to me very similar to the Satori Helios 9.5" 2-Way Speaker... I would even recommend you to look at it🙏... the crossover of the tweeter is 1.3kh!
by the way is it one of the secret "new record day" ron speaker?😛
Well, Danny...sounds, no pun intended, excellent and I look forward to its arrival. So, what are its current requirements? And as an aside is there a Small Open Baffle speaker coming in our future
You did mention that Tweeter with 3, 3" Woofer / Mid Driver's which only wetted my imagination.
Believe it or NOT "Square with rounded corners that tapers to a circle" (Velocity Stack) flows more air, than Round Cones with regards to VELOCITY Stacks on engines...... Extrudabody research.....
Hi Danny, would speakers stands be available for these special speakers coming? Would these speakers be able to be bolted to the speakers stands? Thanks in advance.
Can't wait maybe in the future a M165 with that tweeter.
The goal isn't to cannibalize the Studio, so I doubt we'll have plans for a M165 version any time soon. An MTM/center version would likely be the next step.
@@hoth2112a centre that’s capable of a controlled wide off axis with reference output capabilities using the Neo 3 is going to shock the home theatre market! Floor standing towers that match the centre to follow would be a great direction for this new product line, really looking forward to seeing it develop, congratulations.
NICE T SHIRT how do I get one
Price will be a key , as always . How complicated is the crossover?
When does a waveguide become a horn and vice versa?
So do you use the back cup or not or is it a preference?
In a box speaker the back has to be sealed off from the woofer.
did the wave guide just get invented or do humans tend to copy each other.
Whoopi cushion horn?
Incredible! How do you go about analyzing distortion and compression in terms of limitations of the driver? Does that change much from the results you get in the design stage of the driver vs the design of a speaker? Or is it basically just brand trust with Peerless?
Most of that is a misnomer. It really has no value to a point. Small changes in measured distortion don't really equate to what we hear. It is only when things really do South or really fall apart that things like distortion become apparent. Most speakers can be driven to points where they fall apart or compress but that usually comes well beyond normal listening levels. So it is not much of a concern.
@@dannyrichie9743 that's super helpful. I really appreciate you clarifying that. Perhaps it might be a worthwhile tech talk topic if it gets asked enough, but I've not really seen it come up. Thanks again!
Woah!
I had a 240Z in HS.
Is it impossible or difficult to design a large driver and a tweeter? I am referring to the distance created by the large driver.
it's not impossible, but the further the distance from center to center the more difficult it is to keep the drivers in phase over a wide area. most tweeters are limited to 1500-3000Hz. For a 12" woofer. You will need a crossover point at or below 1000Hz to maintain coherence over a wide area. the larger 3" deep horn could do that easy, crossing as low as 700Hz.
@@hoth2112 Sounds like a plan!
It’s not a datesun it’s a dotson
Thanks for this video Danny very informative. I do have a question though, when people say that a speaker will work in a small to medium room, what is the measurements for a small medium or large room.? My room is 17‘ x 27‘ with an 8 x 10‘ alcove , now is that medium, large….?
Again, thanks…
For most people in the world, that is a large room. For people here in the USA it is a medium sized room. In Texas, it's a small room. :-) Larger air spaces swallow up bottom end. You room is well suited for large speakers or the use of added subs.
@@dannyrichie9743 …. Thanks for the reply, everything in Texas is larger 😁
The info about the room sucking up the base is great information. Here in Connecticut my room is probably medium/large I would say. Thanks again.
So much talk about the wave guide in an open baffle speaker then you offer us a box speaker kit. When will these developments be offered in a smallish open baffle design?
A small woofer in an open baffle can't play down low enough to be effective on its own.
@@dannyrichie9743 But when accompanied with a well designed subwoofer?
@@Bob-hq5lj It can still leave a gap between them. A woofer like the M-130 would only be -3db down in the 200 to 300Hz region in an open baffle by its self. That is a long way to push a sub and makes placement critical to blending them.
@@dannyrichie9743 Good point. I'm looking for a mid priced new speaker more exotic than a box enclosure instead of trying a 5 foot used Martin Logan or Magnepan
@@Bob-hq5lj Our X-Statik model bridges that gap from the open baffle woofers, to a sealed pair of woofers below, and then to our servo subs. The results are excellent.