Food and Faith: 2 - What did Shiva and Vishnu Eat?
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
- Food and Faith are largely inseparable in India. In part 2 of my conversation with Devdutt Pattanaik, author of over 50 books on mythology and faith, I explore the symbolic meaning of the connections between food and religion.
A common question I get is that why am I, an avowed science-focused, irreligious person is discussing the connection between food and faith on my channel. If science communication has to be accessible to people, science communicators need to have the humility to understand how faith shapes people's lives and thinking. If I can't make an attempt to appreciate why people believe the things they do, I cannot expect to be invited into their minds to add my snack to the buffet table of their world views.
You can watch Part 1 here: Mythology vs Mythbusting • Food and Faith: 1 - My...
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"We have abundance of food and scarcity of imagination and when we had dearth of food and we had abundant imagination" wow, very deep nd thoughtful words 🙌🏿🙌🏿🙌🏿
Thank you!
I don't agree with it. There is no scarcity of imagination in today's generation.
You obviously dont understand the immensity of the statement. You're the living example of " dearth of imagination " thank you for being the example.@yenaremadun7184
@@yenaremadun7184 It is just a catchy phrase of the kind Mr. D uses. Mr. D., today's guest, sprinkles many such comments. Many Indians are happy just to hear the words Vishnu and Shiva. The rest of the non-scientific, unvalidated stuff that today's guest spew out is fit for garbage bin alone.
(77) This was fantastically informative. When I was seeing Mr. Patel, I turned up at his house about 10 AM with a few bags of groceries and announced I was going to make a chicken curry for his dinner. He looked absolutely stunned, because he said I looked like I didn't know how to cook. I worked in a jewellery store, so I looked pretty poncy all the time. He was really impressed with my food, but in his home he would not touch a bite until he put a bit of everything on the flashy little plates on this flashy little tray and put it in front of this altar that was behind a curtain. I asked him what about the times we went out for the day and met in town; he said he would tell Ganeesha he was stepping out and gave the statue a tray of candy before he left the house. I never asked him why. But this upload has more than satisfied my curiosity. Thank you for this.
we need to put leashes on our desires for food to end the scarcity of imaginations. An empty stomach helps a brain speak louder than ones mouth. looking forward to part- 3 for this conversation.
Loving these conversations! Waiting for more such conversations and hoping that they become a recurring thing on your channel, Ashok. Loved the way you put it: "We used to have scarcity of food and abundance of imagination; now we have abundance of food and scarcity of imagination".
Thank you!
5:33 dude did you intentionally say necrophilia or it's a mistake? atleast editor could have edited this with necrophagy.
Exactly
Still the Question is unanswered. What Shiva and Vishnu ate?
You missed it the metaphor 😂 they don't eat ....
He answered the question. Re-watch.
Just checked with Shiva , he had masala dosa. And vishnu had poori baaji.
By the way, shiva is my class mate & vishnu is my colleague,
😂😂😂😂@@utubevenky
@@utubevenkySo you're a student and also working somewhere at the same time. 👏🏼👏🏼
what a lovely conversation❤ respect to both of you.
Thank you!
Very interesting Thank you for serving such a delicious video.
ua-cam.com/video/vtkMFLuOa3M/v-deo.htmlsi=sJVVD-xCKEf-4t3U
Shiva and Vishnu came after Buddha?? What nonsense @devdutt!
Pls provide scriptural reference that the puranic version of shiva and Vishnu were popular and widely known before 500 BCE. Devdutt’s point was “what we know from verifiable documentary sources”. If you want to “believe” they are older, that is just faith and that’s perfectly fine
And this channel owner is also trying to propagate lies
@@krishashok modern evidence suggests that the timeline of 500 BC is not factually correct and many historians have challenged it, to say that if you believe otherwise is a matter of your own faith is ignorant to say the least. Devdutt Patnaik is neither a historian nor a religious scholar, his books are based on his own interpretation of scriptures so what he thinks need not be taken seriously. Acknowledging something that is beyond our expertise is a sign of open mindedness because science and research are constantly evolving.
Contrary to your belief, archeological evidence suggests that all manifestations are progression from the vajrayana sect of Buddhism.
While I do not subscribe to this completely, but I believe that the Shiva and Shakti traditions may have come from tribal tradition and amalgamated into the Tantra sect of Vajrayana, whereas Vishnu became a stronger manifestation much later. Well it's just my belief and not even a theory. Yet to be proven with evidence and I am trying.
Why is it nonsense? The Rid Veda has no real mention of shiva or vishnu in the present form that we pray to. Religious customs are forever evolving.
What a beautiful episode!! That's food for thought as well. 😊
Thank you
Nice to understand a different perspectives of food, God, cooking. Thank you ❤
my mom assumes that if i eat 50 g of paneer in a day it will fill my protein requirements for a day and tell me that best source of protein is boiled eggs idk what she meant but i know that egg is a good source of protein i know thati must consume at least 1-1.5 grams of protein per kg body weight but she doesn't seem to know that concept, i tried sending her a video of yours but i don't think she watched it completely idk what to do as i am concerned i am falling short of even getting 70 g of protein daily and i am really confused to make a diet plan in which i am not over biased toward to protein compromising other essential nutrients whether macro or micro, i am some what of a intermediate badminton player weighting around 80.32 kg's and i stand around 180-187cm(5.11- feet ). I am really confused to the point idk what to do please help me construct a plan as the diet i currently follow isn't showing me a difference in my athletic performance.
What do you wanna say??
@@MrSur512 exactly what i mean
don't know how old are you, but you sound like an adult. So why are you dependent on your mother for food. You at least require more than 100 gm of protein every day. Plan it yourself and prepare meal. There are tons of meal ideas on UA-cam
@@swagatnag5184 not an adult still 😅
@krishashok hi , please help on use of cod liver oil capsules myths. Any good Indian brand too ,if required.
what is the name of the podcast ?
Just an amazing work. Devdutt Pattanaik is one of the greatest storytellers, influencers in the world of learning!! Very nice content, Krish!!
Thank you!
Simply loved the depth you both go and explore these simple and concepts in complex perspective, I wish I had more friends with similar interests to share these interesting dialog and discussions, pls make of more this at your own pace and collaboration with awesome people like him. Pls take your time.
Thank you. One of the things social media has done in conjunction with polarised politics is to make forget that it's OK to disagree politely and have a diversity of opinions on faith and religion. As you can see with some of the comments below, people form their own cultish tribes on the basis of something as trivial as tweets. Somehow, people can read 50 of his books and have a polite, intellectual and enriching disagreement or counterview BUT reading 2 tweets you find triggered you gives one the right to use silly extremist labels!
@@krishashokyou said it! I'll add that expression in the anonymity of social media emboldens you to be more foolish/shallow/border-line mean; & such expressions, in my view, are always more exciting to engage in than the more polite/intellectual conversations that one should ideally have. The allure of showing off your dark side ( or ignorant/lazy side) under anonymity (social media) is very tempting .
@@krishashok yes you are right, I’m a person who does not give much attention to others comments except for few videos. But I believe people who support you and gaining from your knowledge is far more than the negative actors and u already know that. I’ll be looking forward for the next topic from you patiently. Thanks once again
Very educative , informative and thought provoking .
Thank you!
Another great, insightful conversation between two of my favourites😊
This made me realize that my mom barely likes eating the food she made. She likes food that others make, despite the food tasting not as good as hers. Also, critiquing the food she prepared disappoints her more than paying for food that tasted bad.
Wonderful discussion! It was enlightening and interesting
What am enlightening conversation... thoroughly enjoyed every bit of it.
Thanks again for such a Wonderful conversation between you and Devdutt Pattanaik. Looking forward for many such interesting questions :) and hope this episode atleast makes one Rich person get that light bulb moment so he starts to think on meaningful moment of his existence and starts to share portion of his wealth in overcoming Hunger for many, so to achieve maslow's top hierarchy of needs
Thanks a ton
Thoroughly delicious conversation 👏👏👏
Glad you think so!
Brilliant conversation..keep them coming!
such intellectual content.. thank you
thank you
This is a great conversation... An eye-opener
Thank you!
Beautiful analysis❤
Your channel WAS a trusted one. Dont disappointed.
Ok boss
Hi Krish, nice episode. What is the molecule on your t-shirt?
Caffeine
Beautiful discussion. Please add the whole discussion.
Amazing!! Love it
Lots of things never understood you made it so easy ❤❤❤
Glad it was helpful!
What a great author with such a deep knowledge of mythology he has absolutely nailed what our gods eat in old times, he must have surely experienced something divine in past absolutely blessed person
Thankyou so much.
This episode was a disappointment. A lot of interpretations are very personal rather than fact based. A lot of metaphorical jumps rather than interpreting scripture.
Agreed, mythologist spreading myths I guess
waaah bhookh lag gayi 🤪🤪 brilliant discussion loved it 🙂🙂
:)
sorry Mr Patnaik! "Sham no Vishnu urukramaha "says veda Vishnu is as old as Vedic civilisation
This guy devdatt Patnaik is a woke and he doesn’t know facts he is trying to tarnish sanatan
Wrong facts stated in video please flag it as inappropriate
Wow whata great channel i found today this is gem 💎💎💎💎. subscribed thank you so much for great work divine 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 Hari and Hara concept was great
Thank you
@@krishashok welcome 😁
What a twist of concept.... as described in vedhas. So through ashwamethayangyam, when horse is barbequed, it was done as there is scarcity of food... Am I right??? Please enlighten me...
Ashwamedha yagna was not conducted by the average person. It was a rare event that the richest of kings did
Please clarify the concept of satvic and Tamasic food. Is that a myth or science ?
This topic is also explained well by Devdatt Patnaik.
Satvic food - A food which involves non-violence and when even eaten it doesn't provoke, or aggravate you to be angry. ( Science -which doesn't increase your blood pressure. )
Tamasic Food - Which food involves violence, eg. eating meat, also Includes onion, garlic aswell. As they aggravate your blood pressure. Can only be taken by some as medicine for thinning blood occasionally if highly necessary, but monks and other sages avoid totally such veges too. Hope it clears your doubt in some way. Thank you 😊
There are temples older more than 3000 for Shiva ..All other discussion were good
What a fantastic episode! Really enjoyed the conversation and the topics being covered. Looking forward to the subsequent episodes of this podcast. ❤
Excellent mind meld of ideas. When distilled to its essence, religion, culture and all aspects are mostly about common sense.
Krish sir.. Waiting for the 3 rd episode
There was simple question about if we know what gods ate in scriptures. In a long winded answer, it is not discussed.
Great talks, decent comparison and glad that you compared in a way to respect everyone culture by comparing Buddhism, Jains, Hindus and Abrahamic.
Normally I skip these topics as there are too many misinterpretation and putting down one culture and collaring other culture but in a contrast you have mentioned in a respectful manner.
Nicely conveyed to respect everybody culture, customs traditions as it all caused for a reason depends on the era, economy, situations, and social issues.
Thank you! It's always heartening to see people in the audience who still believe in a pluralist vision of Indian society
All he said is good except the inception of hindu dharma it is older than buddhism even pali was derived from Sanskrit,
The concept of shiva and vishnu is more than 4000 yr old
Do link to archaeological evidence. As with history, many things are probably older than evidence suggests because the lack of evidence is not evidence of lack, but purely factually speaking, one can only go with the oldest record we know.
We have to rely on America to get proof.carbon dating science and genetics
We have to rely on America to get proof.carbon dating science and genetics
Fun is faith is older.
@@krishashok Would you consider the Pashupati seal from Harappa as evidence? :)
can you guys share links and evidences where you claiming Shiva is just 2000 years old.
😂😂😂
Shiva was never a Vedic God...the older God was Indra ( most probably a tribal leader of the aryans )
You try fix your photo of yourself in the adhaar card, with the evidence you have in hand 😜. If that happens, that evidence which you asking for also will come out.
@@ajithgudepu68 incorrect vedic rudra was lord shiva.
Can you give me some evidence or links saying Vishnu is older than 2500
Very good podcast.pls show more of such videos,which enlightens more on our scriptures in relation to food principles & science
Vera level sir.. something very deep in meaning 🙏🙏
Thanks!
Thank you!!
While offerring of pure raw milk to Shiva is the norm, I have seen devotees bringing pasturised milk in plastic sachets to offer to Shiva at Trayambakeshwar , one of the 12 Jyotirlings. The priests do not object.
for practicality purposes, getting raw milk is hard nowadays
Please upload rest of the episodes quickly 😅🙏
Haha.
Interesting conversation
How come cosmic forces need food?
All food is one cell killing and eating another kind of cell. Can you please elaborate on this?
I love your T shirt Krish, hard core scientist 😅😅
Haha it's caffeine
So... What do they eat?
Shiva doesn't eat
Vishnu eats whatever you feed him
They ate everything, vegetables, meat, dairy
Lord Vishnu / Krishna eats vegetarian food, water, fruits & nuts.
@@kapa1208😂 you want to hear what you want to hear
Your guest wrote in a book that Shiva smoked Marijuana. He is a class of its own.
In most traditions that is so...Dhatura too.... He drank poison.. metaphor or literal dont know. Many shaivite sadhu ascetics do so...
Great conversation!!
Thank you!
Loved it❤
Brilliant
DOES..PRE WORKOUT MEAL NECESSARY..FOR STRENGTH TRAINING..MUSCLE BUILDING..?...BUT THE PROBLEM WITH PRE WORKOUT MEAL EARLY MORNING IS THAT..BEFORE IT DIGESTION WE GO FOR EXERCISE..NOW THE DIGESTION STOPS AND ALL THE BLOOD FLOW WILL GO TO MUSCLES...IF I DONOT TAKE ANY PRE WORKOUT....MANY WILL SAY.."UR BODY ENTERS CATABOLISM"..IT BREAKS DOWN ITS OWM MUSCLES TO CREATE GLUCOSE...AND HENCE PREVENTING MUSCLE GROWTH..!! IM CONFUSED
Pre work out meal is not necessary.. just have a little of over night soaked oats nuts shake or banana
@@shyamalagowri9992 THAT'S THE PROBLEM...EVEN IF YOU EAT VERY LITTLE AMOUNTS OF OVER NIGHT SOAKED OATS ,BANANA NUTS...EARLY IN THE MORNING..IT WILL TAKE TIME TO DIGEST... ATLEAST 1HR...BUT MANY FOLKS CAN'T EVEN WAIT FOR 30 min. BEFORE THE FOOD GETS DIGESTED .. THEY GO FOR EXERCISE..THIS WILL DIVERT THE BODY FROM DIGESTION TO EXERCISE.. BLOOD FLOW WILL GO TO MUSCLES ..AND THE DIGESTION PROCESS STOPS...AND THAT UNDIGESTED FOOD WILL CREATE PROBLEMS IN THE GUT.
I was very worried for you when I read the title! (Particularly in the lead up to elections)
Very nicely done podcast. Thank you.
Thought that a slightly deeper exploration of Buddhist / Jainist food concepts as applied to common people would have given a better contrast. As it stands, the concepts about them are talking about the rich people & the monks & the Hindu percepts are more about the common people.
hard to do justice to these topics in any short form video
A nice conversation ❤. ‘Abundance of food and scarcity of imagination’ so true. But milk and honey is truly violent food isn’t it? 😊
Q. Humble request to share some more raw Fruits for better Gut health issues and SIBO ISSUES and huge under weight issues and chronic cystitis issues and
Simple question those days if someone asked about who is your father will you go for Dna test or your mothers word
What food is consumed by Allah,Y/Jehova
I was waiting on the nuts and seeds. Are they not significant?
Thear is story of Philomena and buqis from Greek mythology and the hospitality of Rebeca's parents in laws the concept of zinia from Greek storys but that is not as much as India have
I strongly disagree with the assumption that shiva and Vishnu are just 2000 yrs old. What about sri rudram in the vedas? What about narayana suktam? They are way much older than what he thinks. Anyway it's just his belief not the truth.
You are welcome to assume it's my belief, but it is also your belief :) Rudra and Narayana are very minor deities with passing references in the Vedas. Their role/mythology in the vedas is NOT what we today know as those deities. Devdutt's point here is that today's definition and popularity of Vishnu and Shiva's mythology came very much later. You don't have to take my word - speak to scholars if you wish to
@@krishashok no I disagree with this assumption Aslo. In rudram it was said " namo jyestaya cha kanishtaayacha" " I salute to the greatest and the smallest." It was term used in rudram that " Visvesvaraya" which means lord of the universe. How can we assume him as minor daity?
Even in narayana suktam of yajurveda " yatra kinchit jagat sarvam drushyathe sruyate piva anthah bhahischa tat sarvam vyapya narayanah parah. " It means " what ever u can see or touch, narayana is spread both in and out of those all".
@@krishashok I don't want to undermine myself less than any scholar because I have my own research. I read the scriptures first hand and spent days thinking of these concepts. It's just my self esteem but I value ur opinion.
Thanks for this series. But how come we have no representation of women? More than Siva and Vishnu, I would've loved to hear from women.
They do feature in the full conversation. Not posted them yet
Amazing
Great content
Great channel, concept & editorial. Stock footage is bit unnecessary.
To each their own. For the vast majority it breaks the monotony and helps anchor ideas
Haven't we found shivling in IVC? How can he say shiva is just 2000 years old
Really? Please share the published archaeological finding that we found a shivling in IVC
kevinstandagephotography.wordpress.com/2020/10/30/national-gallery-new-delhi-harappan-gallery-indus-vally-civilisation-ivc/
@krishashok look for the kalibangan shivling, since I can't share links in youtube. There are also multiple cylindrical objects that may or may not be proto-shivling
Both Vishnu and Rudra are mentioned in Vedas a lot . One can argue Rudra is not as same as Shiva , what about Vishnu ? There is Vishnu sooktam and Vishnu being mentioned many times . How come this so called ‘learned people’ come and say something that goes about verbal proof? Had some good opinion about this channel . Dear You tuber , Please be careful not to lose authenticity
They are not the same as the hugely popular deities we now know. The primary deities in the Vedas are the elements - Indra, Varuna, Agni, Surya, Savitar etc. There are 250 references to Indra, 200 to Agni, and merely 6 references to Vishnu and 4 references to Rudra. The most popular hymn from the Rig Veda is dedicated to Savitar (Gayatri Mantra). It is the Puranas from much later that feature the version of Vishnu and Shiva we are familiar with. And the Shaivite and Vaishnative movements from the 8th century onwards that popularized the concept of temple religion. The Vedic culture DID NOT have temples. None of this is controversial - all you have to do is speak to vedic experts even if you do not trust Devdutt or random youtubers like me.
You might want to consider that other people also read these things and do not make stuff up for their convenience. And last but not the least, the diversity of how we interpret the Hindu faith is something worth celebrating, not fighting over in the comments section.
@@krishashok At first, I appreciate your reply. I also agree about Vaishnavism or Shaivaite traditions are which are later from 8th based on empirical evidence. However, some of the views expressed are merely wrong. 6 and 4 references of Vishnu and Rudra are truly wrong. What basis you are saying? Primary evidence or other secondary sources. There are several references about Vishnu in every Veda. Right from Achidram, ashwadedam, Mahanarayana Upanishad till sooktas, dedicated especially to Gods. Additional empirical evidence of Greek Heliodoros adopting to Vishnu worship and erected a column with Garuda as staff. Though I truly enjoy you posts on food and agree with many of the claims. It is clear Sri Devadutt was offline mentioning about Vishnu. Might be he intended to say, Shiva and Krishna instead of Shiva and Vishnu. Scaring that Indian society allows authorship with limited research. While I totally agree about Bhakti /temple traditions which are later import. Regarding your suggestion to talking to vedic experts, I have read Yaskar (very old) and Vidhyaranya bhashyams (less than 900 years) with vedic experts, without any hidden agenda. Let me rest my case with this.
Did you mean necrophagy when you said necrophilia?
Yes, my bad. Necrophagy
Point is there would be lot of historians who would not agree with mythlogist like devdutt about shiva and vishnu being only 2500 years old . For e.g nilesh oak HAS proven solidly the mahabharata being 7500 old and he too comes from scince background being an engineer. Further vedic perioed of course is minimum 4000 years old all the evidences confirm and rig veda clearly mentions shiva so just because a mythlogist who sees everything as grey and who has written 50 books can not be taken for granted because what ever he writes it says dose not have any scientific backing of evidence so let him remain a mythlifidt and don't convert him to be a truth sayer .
Please link to Nilesh Oak's peer reviewed research. 7500 years ago, we have no evidence for anything other than the earliest, highly basic agricultural settlements like Mehrgarh. Please don't confuse mythology with history.
An engineer is no guarantee for history !! 😂
Please ask the references to Mr Pattnaik next time, it will be helpful.
What kind of references are you looking at? burden of proof is on you; you need to say what he talks is irrelevant. :-) That's how most of the pseudo-garbage is propagated.
Devdutt has been proven wrong multiple times.
Why are you getting into subjects that are not core to your channel.
I unsubscribe all the channels that I join for the core sciences like food when they get into these idiotic subjects..
Food for thought......
Smart way of sneaking false information about Hinduism
What is the false information here?
❤
How strange while the gods don't really eat or consume everything, Devdut is quoting Manusmriti, to eat everything cause it was written somewhere in Sanskrit and translated by an English who never set foot on India soil. Its like someone cooking for a Michelin restaurant after watching UA-cam videos...
You do realize the conversation is about the symbolism, not the literal act of eating
What you say is 100%true
Very interesting.
❤❤❤
Thank you
Sir Brahman ik way of eating,,,,,who learn vedas,, basic rule is selfless..so they dont care about them self,, selfless.. also vishnavisam and shivisam and shaltheyam is older than older than buddism,, but that doesnt mean bussidm is not uptolevel. I dont have proof..just consider dasha avatharas of vishnu that starts from matsya koorma varaha that says the evolution process..
Indian and Hindu shouldn't be used interchangeably.
Jeevo jeevaysya jeevanam🎉❤😅
Just 2500 yrs .what proof . Ramayan when .??
what proof do you need for mythology? you understand its all cooked up stuff based on some stories published and some artefacts. You can also say Spiderman is very much active if you find some Webdings in NY. Think about it.. ? Where do you draw the line?
one can same thing about Jesus & Mohammad too..
Albert Einstein said Same thing about Gandhi.people won't believe such a person lived
Durga and Annapurna are different
Buffalo symbolises ignorance not food
Why does buffalo symbolise ignorance?
@@krishashok it is slow, not so responsive to external stimulus, it is dull
Yess indeed ..some of the muslim sects ( Sunni... Soofi.. Syed..) offers food in the name of ,,Prophits. , and. their Imams. And clergies ( Abdul qader jilani... Ali.. Ghouse Ajmeri.. Prophit Mohammad... Martyrs of Karbala and many more ) what they called this Fateha ( offering food in their name ) This Act of Fateha (offering food to Dead ones ) is totally prohibited ( Haram ) in Islam .....
Ah interesting. Cultural food habits are best purely seen through the lens of culture and not science.
Mythological fabric correct
Can I live without drinking cow's milk. I find that cow does not willingly give milk as it only starts the process when the cattle is around or tied around. This is like cheating or stealing. Probably should go with goats milk as you do not need to tie the goats kids to enable the process and it gives willingly.
Why do you have to drag in religion into a diet channel?
Aren't there enough jhagraas?
My channel, my rules.
I may be getting a better idea as to why Mr. M.K. Gandhi chose to fast as a part of his non-violence movement.
I could be wrong. If someone has any inputs on this, I'll be interested to read.
Just one word sir autophagy
Providing food in the names of Dead ones.. to Avatars.. to Deities. and to God's is called ... Bhoog... In Hindus........ And. ,, Fateha ,, in sunni muslims ...( In Islam it's prohibited..) ...
Milk & Honey also contains criminality. Humans are stealing from someone's assets. 😂
Are you mad, Shiva and Bishnu is a idea of 2000years old? Did you ever read purana, Mahabharata?
Do you know how old are the puranas?
Plus, don't be so intolerant