Vintage VS Modern Vox | Worth $2000? | Free Kemper Profiles
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- Опубліковано 12 лип 2024
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The Vox AC30 is an Iconic guitar amplifier. It has been on so many records and been played by many great artists including the Beatles, Brian May, The Edge, and Brad Paisley just to name a very few.
The Vox AC30 was first released in 1959. Since then it has been manufactured by JMI, Birch Stolech, Rose Morris, and Korg. Vox's Flagship amp has been made in England, China and Vietnam. The vintage models even from the late 80s and early 90's continue to rise in price. The modern Chinese are still quite affordable, and easy to find for less than $800 - $1000. Is it worth it to spend the extra coin on even one of the most recently made (now 30 years old ) English Vox AC30/6 TB amplifiers? Today we find out!
00:00 Intro
00:57 Bumper
01:16 The Setup
04:37 Guitars and Soundclips
05:42 Conclusion
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I've got a CC2x and I love it. I couldn't care less if it sounds "authentic", I just wanted a reasonably priced, good sounding, loud af amp and thats what it got, in f-ing spades.
actually the cc2x was (is) a really good and "authentic" amp. it included true "custom" options to mimic JMI out of the box (i.e. the cathode bias setting). the core circuit and layout were actually better and truer to original than the UK made korg tbx.
Awesome video. Thanks for doing this!
Great tones! I couldn't say one is better. Both useful. Thanks for making this!
Ive got the AC30cc2x it comes standard with the blues. I love that amp, Ive stuck some mullard tubes in and it rocks and sweet cleans too, hands down best bang for buck used amp ever imo.
I really prefered the CC2 by miles. Lovely midrange that reminds me of the old records by the Beatles and the Shadows.
The problem everybody I knew had problems and they were in the repair shop a lot. They just ran to hot. I don't mean warm either. They got smoken hot and just couldn't take running 3 to 4 hours a gig. We are talking the 60's models. I still have my 50 watt Marshall and it still sounds great. Running a Fryette Power Station. Just crank the 50 and run the volume from the station. If I want the chime I use my Zwreck. I also think the new AC30's sound good but the heat problem has me gun shy and the Zwreck sounds great. Thanks for Kemper Profiles
I have a 1997 Marshall built AC30 with blue speakers, bought new. I changed from the standard greenbacks to the blues and what a difference it made. Noticeable differences were the tone across the board was richer, particularly on the lower strings and the unwound strings gave a more clipped tone. I must say that I slightly preferred the greenbacks for the treble strings but they were nowhere near as good on the lower ones. The best bit is that I have an original Mullard EF86 driven AC15 add-on the amp, obviously still going through the output valves, and both bass and treble tones are clearer and cleaner than through the 30. I also have Harma retro output valves. I play a Strat clean for early 60s instrumentals and blues dirty on an SG. The clean sound with my 62 Strat is unmatched by any other amplifier I have tried, having that bell like quality. I would never part with it.
I have a 1975 AC-30TB (VSL) with Silver Alnicos and they sound great. I believe The Edge has 1 blue and 1 silver in his AC-30. You could definitely hear the difference with the Les Paul. I preferred the British-made one there, but it’s all subjective!
Thanks for the very good comparison. I have an AC30 CC2 Blue (special edition) with Greenbacks, and I think it sounds damn good, cannot compare it to a BlueAlnico one though. I also use a Rodenberg BLDeluxe to push the normal channel into a modded Marshall JCM 800 sound...the result: fantastic!! I can only recommend this pedal if you want a real authentic Marshall sound out of a VOX amp.
I have a Handwired AC30. I've never used it. I hope to put it to work one of these days.
They both are very usable.
On my end, the TB6 has a better tone, but I’d blandly use the cc model.
I own a 2021 AC15c1 and it’s my goto amp.
I could sell all my other amps and be perfectly happy.
Anyone who thinks the new AC’s are crap, obviously haven’t had the pleasure of using one.
8/2023: I haven't watched the video yet, but I'm about to. "CC2" makes me think "Communist Chinese"! 😅 I just watched the video. Excellent for a short but well done comparison. I own a Fender Twin reverb ToneMaster and a "65" Reissue Super Reverb with 4x10" Alnico speakers , both less than one year old. I'm considering buying a new "2023" AC15 to add to my collection. I don't need it, but, just want one. I'm primarily a drummer, but I love "Toys" to play my 1 year old Fender Strat HSS through. For the most part, I see, feel and hear very little difference between Vintage & New equipment. I've been a drummer since 1964, and have played and owned lots of stuff over the years. Thanks and BEST Regards. I have been subscribed.
I heard no difference until the LP. The two sounded different but I couldn't say one was better or worse than the other.
That’s really how I felt too.
The reputation of VINTAGE Vox AC30 Top Boost 1970-71 as being unreliable is BS to my experiance. I managed to get one in 1981 almost in factory condition, and I have played with this dear since that. It has never let me down. I've made 2 full services for it during these years, and it still works like new.They knew what they were doing in those days in Birmingham.
as mentioned below even match until the last clip and the brit made amp showed it's magic ...
Just to clear something up! The Shadows were the first to use AC15, when they started doing shows they had a volume issue and ultimately had the AC30 created for them, The pioneers of Rock'n'Roll in the UK and the very first to use VOX AC30s in the world! Yet their name is totally left out when mentioning the top bands and musicians who, undoubtedly used them! They, The Shadows were the pioneers of VOX AC30 Amplifiers
There were subtle differences with the low gain settings. But the high gain LP tones were pretty drastic. I actually preferred the CC2x LP tones over the TB. But my opinion may change in a mix. Who knows. Great video as always, Matty!!!
What model do you have at home? Does it have Celestion Blues in it?
thanks for the vlog. I enjoyed watching it. However I have to say that I reckon my 1967 AC30 would blow those away. I've never found an amp as good.....Thanks again
Interesting video! Need to do a comparison with a TRUE vintage Brit made JMI era Vox AC30...pre 1967. THOSE are the true Holy Grail. You'll hear a more noticeable difference for sure. Great Job.
I'm sure we would! I would love to revisit this if I can get my hands on one.
I found a CC2 used for around $600 and it came with a combo of a Greenback and Vintage 30. I had the chance to shoot it out against a C2x with Blues and I think the CC2 sounded warmer and fuller. Could be an eq fix
I loved bouth !!!!!!! OMG I really need one in my life
They are both good, the blue celestion makes the difference
Great video! I try my best not to get caught up in gear snobbery / tone myths, but much to my wallet's dismay, I loved the warm tone coming out of the UK model, and thought the top end was a bit harsh on the Chinese model.
That said, I wonder how much of that is down to JUST the Chinese made Celestions. I've heard similar effects in shootouts between UK & Chinese made Celestion V-30s. I'm guessing the amp circuit itself is virtually identical, and the majority of the discernable tonal difference is coming from the difference in speakers.
Super curious if anyone has bought a Chinese made AC30 or AC15 and then swapped in a UK made Alnico Blue.
I did some more research on this and learned that all of the current production Celestion Alnico Blues ARE made in the UK, including the ones that will come in the AC15C1X & AC30C2X (both built in China). So maybe the difference is primarily down to the well broken-in Alnico Blues in the 90’s / 00’s models at this point? 🤷♂️
They are close but not identical: the CC2 has more filtering in the "modern" setting and less in "vintage" mode. The preamp tube voltage (V1) is higher. It can also run the power tubes cooler with the "warm" setting. The Chinese Blues are slightly different from the UK version, but the modern UK version is different from the 60's Blues and Silvers, so...different flavours but all good!
@@mrkite89 I appreciate the insight! Thanks! I ended up picking up an AC15C1 used & ordering a new UK Alnico Blue and swapping the speaker out myself. It sounds glorious! 🙌
The vintage amp has a much more pleasing spectrum of sound. Could listen to it for a long time without the ear getting tired
😂🤣😂🤣
i didn't realize modern amps make ears tired....
The CC2X typically had a Chinese made Blue with a different cone as do the HW1 handwired series. The later Chinese Blues as appearing in the C2X and later handwireds used the Mueller made H7777 cones - they're much closer to vintage. If you'd played each amp through the other's speakers the difference would have been smaller. As various people have noted the Korg 90s TBX doesn't have exact vintage values in the tone stack - wrong log curve on the pots, too. The CC2/CC2X is actually closer in some values and being able to use vintage filter cap values and EQ probably takes you closer.
That’s super interesting. If I come across a deal on a CC2 head id love to snag one. If I ever get a chance, I’d love to take another crack at this video. A lot of folks have brought up things to try we just didn’t think about in the moment.
Also, I’m curious if you know anything about the differences in Chinese VS English Vintage 30 speakers. I bought an Egnater Tourmaster 4x12 this week because of it it being loaded with vintage 30 speakers. Had no idea they were Chinese made until I opened it up. I know a lot of folks claim the English ones are much better. But I thought these sounded fine.
@@Matt_McQueen a lot of cases, there's stuff all difference. I have/had Chinese Greenbacks both with the Mueller and non cone and in that motor you'd have to A/B directly to hear a difference with the mids it has. V30s too. I can't hear any difference, but they're not my fav. The 65 (english) vs 75 watt Chinese Creamback - big difference but I suspect that's also voicecoil and spider.
Super 65s - only had Chinese, but they sound good to me.
My impression is pretty much the same as yours: that the speakers have a lot to do with it. I have an AC30CC which came with the not so glorious Wharfdale speakers - and it sounded underwhelming.
Fizzy highs, missing the nice mids (that´s where the magic happens with the AC30 in my book, think of Brian May). I put in a Vintage30 and that changed the character a lot - i guess a blue Alnico would even more.
I've heard that Celestain blues are the right speaker for an AC30 but I've found V30s sound great with pretty much anything. I might try some V30s in my AC30
@@adam-yk6yd Give it a go. Celestion Blues are geat in an AC30, probably ideal, but they are expensive. The V30 was actually invented to make an affordable speaker that emulates the Blue AlNiCo and I found it to really improve the tone of my AC30 over the stock Wharfdales.
THe sound and quality also depends a bit on the used Tubes and Speakers.
To me the CC sounded harsh and thin next to the TB. I could see the CC working better in cases where your rig was too dark and needed brightened though. That being said I could also see where the TB could use a lil bit of a hipass to keep the mud away.
For sure, neither was perfect. They both sounded really good on the clean sounds I thought.
Idk about you but the CC was MUCH darker than the TB. Maybe you’re deaf, or I am but the British one was much brighter
With the settings you had, the British one sounded better, at least in my car speakers. But I think you could dial it in to sounds better. I have one of those, but without the blue speakers.
Should I slap a Greenback or Blue in my lowly AC15CC1 (NOT THE C1 BUT THE CC1)?
Can I salvage this bad purchase with a Blue?
You can definitely tell one with a slight muddy tone which I think was the AC 30/6 TB
I've listened to a lot of AC30s and I feel the majority of the criticism on the Chinese models to be cliche and untrue. There is nothing in the high end that isn't controlled by the cut pot. Even the rumor that wharfedale speakers suck is largely untrue.
Almost like two different amps to my ears. The TB is warm and sweet. The other is fine but doesn’t do much for me.
Are you deaf, the TB was MUCH brighter. Not warmer. The Chinese was darker
I'm shocked but I actually preferred the CC2 to the authentic Brit Vox. I thought there was little to no discernable difference until the LP, and then it was CC2 all the way. I would've bet $$ that the original was going to have a better sound, but, to me, in this one example, I liked the re-issue better. It's cool how close they were in most of the comparisons. In my opinion, for the money, the imported re-issue is a huge bargain.
What we need is a 1960's Ac30 vs Ac30hw2x comparison
I have had three VOX CC2 amps and one of them was CC2X with two Celestion Alnico Blue. I have sold that CC2X amp, but I stil have mine two VOX CC2 amps, one CC2 combo with Wharfedale GSH12-30 speakers and one CC2 head. I do not think that Alnico Blue are somthing special and I love the sound of Wharfedale GSH12-30 speakers in VOX amps. Thanks for nice video.
You can't set knobs/POTs the same as there's always a small variance. Even on identical amps and pedals. You gotta try to dial in an equally good tone on both to compare. So yes there's a point in trying to dial them in as it's the only way
The problem here is that the "Cut" pot in the CC2 is LINEAR, while it's LOG in the TB, so (with the same setting) the CC2 is much darker! A more "equal" setting would be with the CC2 cut knob at 5 and the TB at 7, for example: both at 5 and the TB is way brighter!
I would compare in a different way. The main design concept is that it can drive the tubes to their limit. Therefore, to fully realize the design theory you should stack or saturate the sound at that outrageous level with pedals or some other way to max out the amp. Once you compare it that way the range differences will become very apparent. The cheap 1 will tap out like a screaming biatch. Keep in mind you can only enter that promised land if your guitar and effects are capable to come along for the ride. Sadly, some sounds are lost forever since the tubes are so important and those British Mullards have also stopped being manufactured. Even if you get a new in the box you still have some leaking of the tube over time.
Great video! I had a '63 ac30 years ago that I sold. My favourite amp in the world until you could only have the volume at 2 on stage. After buying a house and finally having a basement studio again I bought myself a used CC2X for under a grand. With a bit of tweaking of the options on the back panel and and some good tubes I'm blown away at how good this thing sounds. And the master volume makes it playable at home. A well built amp that has the proper British style chassis arrangement compared to the goofy Marshall style boards. Would my old '63 be better? Maybe. But doesn't mean a thing if you can't use it. I've often wondered if the Marshall made amps sound better and now I know. Nope...! Thanks for the comparison.
On the gain sounds, the British made amp sounded fizzy, flappy and gutless for some reason..like there was no real mid range attack or presence. It was just way too scooped, yet warmer. The newer model had a very sharp and present mid range attack....probably a bit too much, but it was way closer to a useable tone on the gain settings IMO.
With humbuckers, the /6 sounds fizzy.
The Brit one is definitely a bit richer and warmer in isolation, but the slightly mid-forward boost in the Chinese one might help the guitars to sit in a busy mix a bit more easily. In the heat of the battle of a final mix, I defy anyone to be able to tell the difference.
Yeah I think that’s the truth. Everyone will have a preference of one over the other. But at the end of the day, if you have a mix with a full drum set, bass, 5-8 guitar tracks, and then a stack of vocals, both of these amps could work.
CC much better for me. More vivid sound and will cut through mix better.
The 6/TB has all the magic sauce. Harmonics and smoothness galore. The CC doesn’t even get close.
hard to tell if that comment is serious or not
my CC with the stock Wharfdale speakers sounds very much like the 6/TB in this video: thin and brittle
i don`t hear smoothness or harmonics, i hear a lack of lower mids and fizzy highs
@@modestoney1577 Sorry, yes it was serious. I've been in bands with both amps. When you hear it in person and play through it.. in context of the music you have written, there is a notable difference. The 6/TB just sounds great with no effort.
I had to spend time searching for that sound in the CC and never really got there. The drawback of the TB is that it doesn't have a master volume so the thing needs to be LOUD in order to sing. I eventually picked up a master volume AC30c2 with Celestion blue's and it gets really close. They all could get fizzy if not EQ'd just right.
@@adamwayne6476 Ah, ok, i was merely talking about this video comparison and thought you were too.
@@adamwayne6476 you are high. The cc2 sounded great. yea the LP sounded different, but based on how identical they were on the clean channel I expect the dirt difference had more to due with variances in the tubes than the amps themselves.
@@robertlevasseur8896 the CC was a good amp. I’m just saying that there was a smoothness and notable harmonic quality that was missing with the CC in comparison to my 6/TB. I’m just reporting what my personal experience was in the context of how I play. The drawback of the 6/TB was that one has to turn it up beyond normal volumes to get that sound. Currently I play through a C2X which is a nice happy medium.
Unfortunately I just fall asleep when I smoke weed.
I liked the CC2 more, def voiced more modern
The best part about the CC is that it can sound more modern or it can sound more vintage depending on how you've got the nifty extra controls set.
4:54
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A good comparison video, but try to get your hands on a 60’s JMI era AC30. Neither of these amps sound or feel like a vintage one. I did a video of my ‘64 on my YT channel, check it out.
My AC30C2x sounds REALLY close to this TBX.
I was thinking the same thing. I also have the c2x and it sounds like this TBX
Test was WAY too short. Would have been nice to hear the entire riff on both!
You could probably put 10 different ones in the same type of comparison and have the same variation.
You think? I would be interested to try to 6TB's side by side and see if you are correct. That would be interesting.
@@Matt_McQueen The reason I say that is old caps and "broke in" speakers are going to differ just like two 1176's can be slightly different.
Old made of wood, newer made of press board?
Hilarious that your thumbnail calls the new ones “cheap”. I had one of the British made AC30 reissues from 2000 that I bought for $1800 CAD around 2012, which is exactly what the Chinese C2 currently costs here in Canada.
$1800 in 2012 would be considered around 2.5k in 2023.
So yes the new ones in the thumbnail are cheaper..
I have 3 Vox
A ac30 cc2x
A jmi 1965 ac30 Normal with original blue
And a jmi 1966 ac50 with elecrovoice 15l.
For me chinese ac30cc2x isna good amp
The master volume and reverb IS +
But original ac30 jmi IS the best SOUND for a VOX for me .
And i préfèr electrovoice too
No doubt the vintage English amp is better. But for the money those c2's are fire
So the tonal difference in my opinion is component quality.
The korg made version would have all cheap components where as the English version would have top quality parts. Also the early speakers are better quality than the new blues 🙂
They’re both Korg
@@marcospintor1333 buy the sourced components would have been better quality. Then when Korg moved manufacturing to China they would have sourced the budget components we see in the Chinese versions. 90's isn't really vintage anyway. I have a 68 Vox AC50. That is vintage British amplification at its best.
@@rgbplumbinghilton 5 years sort from the good JMI 63’ vox huh. The 68’ are okay too. You could always spec them to be more like a real 63’ tho
@@marcospintor1333 I would never sacrifice it. The warm and depth of bass out of the AC50 is like no other amp I have ever used. Through a fender cab, it is one of the most satisfying clean amps I have ever played. I like the tone of the AC 30's but I prefer Fender and Marshall. The AC 50 was a nice addition to my vintage collection and in almost perfect condition being out of a studio. I never gig it just enjoy it on a Sunday morning.
@@rgbplumbinghilton they’re kinda whatevers. You could buy a new Chinese VoxAC30c2X for the same price as the 68’ ac50 haha so it’s a good budget thing if you want to go “vintage”. Idk I’ve played through one and it was stupid shrill and trebly especially when you’re standing in front of it and I pretended to like it😂 It’s probably different with a fender cab tho I guess
Really unfair comparison. Jumpering was a pretty bad decision since the older vox has the channels out of phase while the modern has them in phase. That is probably why you experienced them to have different gain structures. The master volume has nothing to do with it, you could have just left it flat out and it would be as if it were not there.
Jumpering should have been a tangent. Demoing the channels individually would have been more representative to the players you mentioned and demonstrated the amps' diffrences bette as well
Hyyyuuuuge difference when pushed hard! I listened to the video first without watching and made a note of when I noticed a tone change. Then I watched the video to see how close I got. The clean tones with the Suhr were pretty spot on. Possibly a bit more “glassy” with the Korg, but in a mix you’d never notice, and live? Forget about it. However, the quality of craftsmanship and reliability would then come into question. Having owned a Chinese AC15, I’d steer clear. However the 335 and LP were extremely easy to notice (especially with the LP). The cc2 sounded like a cheap distortion plugin (my opinion) while the English Korg had a heavy tube saturation, almost fuzz tone that you’d expect when throwing an LP and Tube Screamer in front of a quality tube amp. Again, just My opinion! Nice comparison.
I loved the Chinese one! The difference in mid-range between the two is fairly large IMO. on the Les Paul part with the British Vox, the distortion sounded almost like an amp head without a speaker, or like an amp sim without an IR. Although I'm mostly a metal guy, I do record some 70's style punk bands that use the Chinese Vox ac30s.
I am afraid the speakers have a lot to do with that deep difference in mids
Even the English pre 1969 aren't the same aldo made in England!
5:23
If it sounds good. Then it’s good.
The only AC30 I've played that really rocked was from the 60s, so much better the later ones, made my mates 80's AC30 sound like pants
I assume sounding like pants is bad? I did play a 78 with Silver Alnico speakers I thought was pretty good sounding once.
You should have instead compared the ENGLISH TB to the modern HW hand wired more of an apples to apples
The Chinese one sounds like it has more tone
The Chinese one all the way
Ac30 6 tb 2nd and 3rd demo has not as sharp crisp a tone
Mine doesn't have all those buttons, and it looks very old, it is from 1963... should I through it away and get a new one?
I say more: Chinese have Master voume, so so useful. More: today's chinese are cx, better than cc
Cc2x sounds way better ey!
Gladly, not blandly.
Are you kiddin? you call a 90's VOX vintage? Every
thing after - 1966 is not "THE" tone...
I own a 1999 (2000) and 1966 (1965) ac30 and the old JMI amp sounds way cooler
The greenbacks are so much better than the blues. C'mon, the blue's sound like they are just holding back.
Owned both. Old kills new.
Must add: owned a 2000s cc2, 1962 ac30/6 non tb, and 1979 dallas built ac30/6tb. 60s and 70s smoked the 2000s, period
Britain = Lucas Electronics. China = your cell phone...
China is abit thin
Chinese sounded much better. Not much of a comparison. Any vox I’ve ever owned or played always sounded better with greenbacks imo. The blues are just the fanboy “that’s what was in the originals”. There’s a reason you don’t see alnico blues in pretty much any other amp and greenbacks in just about everything. Alnico blues do 1 sound and that’s it…
You put brad paisley up way to high on your list .. lol
1 minute of comparison samples & 8 minutes of opinion
TB sound better
New One Better
both sounds shite but nice video dude
Half the video talking......just get to the damn playing, jeez.
I have a cc2 with english made alnico blues and some mods to sound like a proper ac30, honestely beat them both.