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COULD THIS BE THE MISSING SOX AND MARTIN PROMOTIONAL HEMI CUDA?
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- Опубліковано 5 гру 2023
- Mark and Tony take off the gloves in this hi-tech battle of Mopar knowledge to unearth the answer to an urban legend.
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I used to deliver the newspaper to Sox Sinclair service station when Ronny ran a 409 chevy, then a Comet Caliente. Then he moved to his own shop with Buddy Martin and Jake king as their engine builder when they got sponsored by Chrysler and Gate City Chrysler-Plymouth. They were local heros in and around Burlington, N.C.
That must be the Comet Ronnie Sox is in in that black & white photo earlier in the video. Cool!
He also drove a 67 Hemi Cornett at some times!
@@spudthompson1414 no Ronnie was a Plymouth guy not a Dodge guy.
Herb McCandless was known as ‘Mr. 4-speed’ and he raced for Sox & Martin in the early 70’s. He won the NHRA Pro Stock Championship in 1970 racing a Sox & Martin Plymouth Duster.
The chemistry between these 2 is hilarious.
Tony is the best he’s the realist just not easy for us to just have fun and joke around all the time Tony’s my man
I lived near Sox & Martin and also raced a modified 1968 440 6 pak. I sure wish I would have taken pictures. We routinely bought parts from them. One day when I was there they had 6 Hemi engines in the kitchen! The basement floor was covered withe heads, cranks, and various other parts. They manufactured pinion snubbers which I later fabricated myself based on their design. Their barn had numerous hemi cars. We had most major performance models, several Superbees, Chargers, Challenger, and Duster among others…no I didn’t keep any. 😕
would love to see a picture of there home and barn
Ronnie Sox was a 4 speed racer but Herb McCandless was the one known as Mr.4 Speed, it was wrote on his car right next to his name but they did build cars for customers although I don't know if they were painted in Sox and Martin team colors. I cant believe I had to correct Tony... I thought these old race cars came to racers as a "white" car which was only the shell and racers added the rest of the parts.
Ronnies nickname was “The Boss “
The modified Mopar's that I saw being built at Mopar Dealerships in late 1960's were all stock & white then modified (as ordered by customer) in the service dept. Suspension, Roll Cage, Drivetrain and interior with Exterior Lettering were customer ordered. I knew of two different models of the Hemi offered in late 60's. One was the 426 Street-Hemi(425hp) two carter four barrels 12,000 warranty, the other was a 426 Competition-Hemi (550hp) with two Holly four barrels with the dual plane intake without warranty. Fun Fun Fun
I had a conversation about someone claiming they dated an ex girlfriend from over 39 years ago with someone else in the knowing present... It went about the same way including her features & how her dials knobs all worked.. Turned out to be BS....
@@brianmullen1208ROFLMAO.
@@brianmullen1208The "race Hemi" was not "offered" in anything but the factory "lightweight" cars before the "late 60s".
Herb McCandless who drove for socks and Martin was known as Mr four-speed
Great episode! All business no fluff
Really enjoyed this video very informative love listening to these guys go over this car to document it’s existence
My friends dad had a 69 Camaro 427 Copo car with 325 miles on it in Windward Blue, the problem was they didn’t paint Camaros in Windward Blue, only Firebirds. Well, he worked for GM, they moved his car over to the Pontiac line for 31 dollars and painted it a Pontiac color. It was deemed a “Fake” by the experts. But the docs proved different. It nailed down 236k at auction after the fees were paid, the auctioneer was paid and the smoke cleared.
Those two are a riot watching together, there knowledge is rare.
There was 2 426 hemi block's in Hawaii on Ebay a few year's ago and I think one was the original from the 1971 Sox Cuda with Vin and other was hawain punch car. Both broken and the guy wanted $5k ea
Im old enough to have went to a dealership and looked and snooped around a Sox & Martin show/display car--when no one else was around and the thing I noticed was "tunnels" in the back of the floor boards to clear the ladder bars--If this car was ever raced it would have those and be hard to repair if taken out of service--also the Cuda was painted white underneath and there was no undercoating.
Not hard to replace the floor.its done daily.
As I remember, pre-Internet, the Street Hemi pinion snubber reenforcement was only supposed to be on manual transmission cars. The automatic B-body may have not gotten the boxes, but auto E-bodies did. There are also some year to year changes in the B-body versions. In the old parts books, the pinion snubber reenforcement plate was described as a manual transmission Street Hemi part. The transmission fluid runs through the radiator, not only for cooling, but to keep it from running too cool with the additional cooler.
I don’t understand that last sentence…
@@mattskustomkreations Transmission fluid expands when hot. The radiator not only cools the fluid, but it also helps keep it at operating temperature. When I buy a transmission cooler, they usually state to run in line with the radiator. Some small coolers don't cool enough, but some large coolers can cool too much. Every factory transmission cooler I've seen runs through the radiator too. 40 - 45 years ago, Mopar sold the pinion snubber plate with a part number and it was listed as a Street Hemi manual transmission body part. The E-bodies may have had them on automatics, but I wouldn't expect to find one on an automatic B-body.
Best content Mike, Peace and love to Rust bros from CT.
I had a 70 Cuda 440 6 pack 4 speed super track pack. front disc, rear 11 inch drum.
I grew with sox and martin saw them at cook Chrysler Plymouth in Chicopee ma , 70 cuda , 69 road runner were there ,
They only built race cars, nothing for the steet
Memorial drive was a great cruising spot in the 70’s.
The car is special. Racing history or not. It's a Hemi Cuda, and you can't get much more special than that.
Yes you can, plymouth superbird for example
I've seen Sox & Martin run their cars a few times at a drag strip near Cincinnati. They were autographing pictures of themselves next to their 69 or 70 cuda. I got Ronnie Sox to autograph a copy. I have it framed and still hanging on the wall at home after all these years.
I had bought a Hot Rod Magazine, in either '69 or '70 which featured the building of the Sox and Martin Cuda. The image of the Rear End was burned in my brain. Four years later, after detonating 2 rear ends in my '70 Dart and asking my, well known, local Auto Wrecker to search for a posi unit, I came home to my parents place to see he had delivered a whole rear end and it was sitting beside the driveway. I couldn't believe it, it was a Dana 60, and yes, I made it fit by modifing the rear shackles, had a drive shaft custom made, added bolt on traction bars, a taller pinion stuber and ' borrowed ' my fathers spare rims, from his snow tires, off his '68 Chrysler. That thing was indestructible. I wasn't even 20 yet.
Man, THIS IS GREAT STUFF!
My oh my that was the giblet gravy episode. I sopped that info up with a molar biscuit. Great episode.
7:00 Something I hadn’t recalled was the fine graphic lines on the SHAKER text that tricks the eye/brain into making it look shaky. Nice touch!
Actually interesting, and a pleasure to watch because Mark wasn't doing anything stupid, and it was just about cars not goofy shit
Haha.. couldn’t agree more. He’s no comedian
My mom and I own a muffler shop in Florida and we did exhaust for a guy that had one of the biggest collections of Sox and Martin cars!
May have met them at the winter car shows in Spanish pavilion area in The Villages 10-12 years ago. He was an older god faring man, they had a S&M hemi car and an orange plymouth superbird wing car. Probably could find pictures if i dug hard enough.
I loved this episode!
Gosh that light was cracking me up he has a iPad plus for a flashlight 🤣
I am so blown away by these guys knowledge
Great episode!
omg thank you so much for the cracks and lessons, this is entertainment !! cheers from cordoba argentina ! keep it up ! mopar or no car !💪💪💪 "All day long ! " 🤣🤣😍😍
Outstanding.
Good stuff here, these guys know their thing
This could have been one of the Clinic Cars that went around the country on display . Some paint , decals and lettering, and a set of Keystone Klassic wheels, voila , instant " S&M race car " . Some of the Pro Stock teams did experiment with automatic and clutch flight transmissions in '70-'71 . The Missile comes to mind as did Grumpy's Toy , and I believe S&M .
Sox and Martin never ran a Clutch Flight
@@BBQMadeSimple are you positive ? The teams did a lot of testing of different combinations while match racing between events , so anything is possible .
My old man infact owned that car and there’s a few things he knows of that was changed (by will Smallwood after being sold to him by S&M. An the 71 Sox RR. My father still has that …. Thank god
So you are confirming this was actually an S&M car?
The Smallwood Car wasn't a 70 car it was Ronnie's 71 Body in White Cuda which has been accounted for and is in Florida. The 70 car was updated to a 71 Driven by Herb then to a 72 Cuda and sold to Anthony Christopher. So which car did your father own.
Sox and martin cars never had chrome trim at bottom or the roof
Correct!
2 very knowledgeable car guys going at each othe (perfect).
I love this Mopar archeology.
Wow you two really nerded out!!!
Go GO GET EM MR MARK MOPAR 😮🎉
Priceless. The car.
I'm based in the carolinas and I am always running gvinto 70s chargers just rotting away in all kinds of places..
As for missing race cars, I know where the John Petrie Racing Hemi 'Cuda is . 😉😜 Ask me...
Why would “mr 4 speed” have an automatic ?
Sox & Martin built cars for customers. So it could be a possibility.
@@bradbroemmer9106but they said “race car”. Also, it doesn’t have the right hood/scoop as the race cars.
Because Ron sox is not Mr. 4 speed Herb McCandless is mr.4 speed
He wouldn’t have an auto, that’s true.
Herb McCandless was Mr. 4 Speed, not Ronnie Sox. Mos def not a Sox & Martin car.
Just curious, is there any way to run the VIN and get a list of owners or is that a similar “hipaa”?
one of them was in fleetwood pa. ron eroh was a friend of them and they stored cars there.
Cain Chrysler-Plymouth, Wilmington MA built Sox & Martin Hemi Cuda's in late 1960's. I was in the showroom for a dedication ceremony of one of them. I believe it was a 1968 model Hemi. My friend bought a 67 GTX Hemi from Cain. Fred Cain was the go-to-man in New England for high performance Mopar. They custom built Hemi cars in the Service Dept.
Cool watching guru’s feed off of each other.
Every hot rodder and shade tree mechanic transformed their cars into what they could afford hemi got pulled out and sold during 70's gas crunch. Lot of scenarios lots of options and opinions it's a Johnny cash one piece at a time
We are just her for the cars!
Well said!
As far as I know there was only one Hemi Cuda race car that had the factory vin code at Sox and Martin.... The rest were all body in white from the factory....
No they weren't, The GT1 was a Vin Hemi car, the Pro Stock car was a Small block car, The only Sox and Martin Body in White was Ronnie's 71 car which was updated to a 72.
Too much fun!
I saw gust going to ask if it had a Hemi K member you said about it before I could ask 😅 !
Some one put in the Dana in it automatic transmission cars had a 8&3quarter rear !
they gun drilled the majority of bolts on the race car and torsion bars were turned down a lot ! the car would hook and give herb better 60 ft times than he ever ran but thought it felt super slow which was weird. the bars would flex and spring on him
crazy impressive with their knowledge. they are walking automotive encyclopedias
Mark how do I get ahold of you about doing a graveyard cars dream build?
Herb Mcandless was Mr 4 speed, in fact there’s an entire movie based on Mr 4 speed aka Herb FYI
Weren’t the Pro Stock cars such as Sox & Martins delivered to them as a body in white shell to be built as a race car then acid dipped to lose weight? Where are the weld marks from the roll bar?
$500 in 1977. reminds me of my mustang that i bought in late 70's. the car lot had a 69 fastback mustang for $750 , i took it for a ride. it ran like s!%t with a 4bbl carb bolted on a 2bbl manifold. i told them to put a 2bbl carb on it and i would give him $500 . the next day i did not expect the to change carbs, but they did and i got a 69 fastback mustang for $500 and i still have that car.
They are setting each other up and testing more than anything else.
Hern mcCandless was Mr. 4 Speed , he drove for Sox and Martin , he also won the US nationals for Sox and Martin...
Herb***
Morning Fred. Morning Earl
I’m totally on Tony’s side. Would be so cool to be a super special car but PROVE it! Just because some owner says they have something doesn’t make it true. I’ve been a classic Cougar collector. I can’t count how many boneheads have claimed they had a “Boss 302” in their car only to find (as expected) it’s a regular 302.
My first question, how can you validate that hood as being “original” if the hood is orange on a white bodied car..? wtf
A lady neighbor of mine had an old 1950's car in her garage. One day i said nice old car & she replied you like them old cars huh & i replied yes ma'am,. Well my socks about blew off she had a 1957 Chrysler 300C Hemi Convertible Parade Green. Of course i said well it sure looks like it's been here for a while would you consider selling it? She actually considered it but after 8 mo's later i went by there again well it was gone. I saw her later & asked what happened to it & she replied i donated to my church.
Bummer🤦♂️
You know so many times people donate things to a church and all the church is concerned with is converting that donation to cash and the donator just wants it gone.
45 min, I'll never get back
ARE YOU SHITTIN ME!!!!!! I just sat here and watched that whole damn video and they don’t find out!?!?!!? Goddamn it!
These guys are Amos & Andy, and that whip is no Sox & Martin
Dose it have a Dana rear-end Ronnie Sox would have one and all his cars were 4 speed I know the man ment him at a NHRA meet at Palm Beach international in Florida he was pitted next to us Doug Warren with a 67 Hemi R/T F/X car !😮.
May Ronny Sox rest in peace on that race track in racer Heaven your friend Spud 😢 !
Find the hemi Inc cuda, I just want to know my great grandpa's car still exists
If it was a Sox&Martin car look for the floor was raised up to make the car sit lower old trick of theirs 😊.
This was only done on Herb's 72 Demon.
🏆King mark 🏆I sure miss my 69 1/2 Super Bee 383 4-speed ram Air hood if you had one 👀how much would it cost 🍀 get R done😎✌️
🤘Sacramento California 😎
Looks like a Rusttang Michigan Car..
I noticed he had the phantasm shirt on
Brooklyn heavy and the Mudd brothers ( famous Brooklyn street racers) purchased many ofcthe cars raced the previous years by sox/Martian , Jenkins , mccandeles’s cars as well as duck landy. These were raced on first ave , and on Gawaynes exspresswaycinvbrooklyn. Cars were raced raced also at New York national. They were passed around all over Brooklyn and Long Island. Many sold at auction after the formers all went to jail for dealing drugs. Brooklyn Wild pumpkins were peeped by Dyno Tech in maspeth queens. Owned by former employees and drivers from jack merkel racing engines. I’m a bit older than you two guys , What you do not know is tgat ALL SOD AND MARTIAN CARS STARTED AS A BODY IN WHITE! So your number knowledge don’t mean squat , duh
ALL Sox and Martin cars didn't start as a body in White, Only Ronnie's 71 Cuda, then Herb and Ronnie's A body cars in 72. Nothing in 70.
Sox& Martin acid dip their cars, that being said i'd say if it's not a dip car. It's not Sox&Martin.
None of the 70 cars were acid dipped. Only Ronnie's 71 cars was not Herb's 71 car. In 72 they both were.
Awesome to watch 2 very experienced guys throwing at each other.
A worn Greenlee punch will leave a "pulled" edge.
Well, sounds like the narrator is a Monty Python fan
The best thing about this car is that it is a 1970 Hemi 'Cuda.
start sanding down on the paint and look for lettering..
Nice to wish it was 😅!
the dude hving a unlit cigar in his mouth
Promotional car maybe, but not a race car with power brakes and a heater. Maybe Herb McCandless knows, he's still around.
If Sox & Martin got it, wouldn't it not be VIN'd? To my knowledge, if you ordered a race only it'd only have a cert of origin. School me if I'm wrong.
I'm not sure if a race car has a VIN or certificate of origin. I do believe it is a legal requirement and every vehicle must have one or the other. Title (both) complies manufacturer and ownership requirements. I do know that a certificate of origin is the title given by manufacturer. I bought former police cars with certificate origin and I thought it was because they had not yet been re-sold. The public cannot buy a police car from factory and that could be why it had a certificate of origin. Race cars are not legally street-able so they could be in the category titled with a certificate of origin.
If I wanted a Mopar dodge Chrysler rebuilt I would contact McCandless antique auto
wheres my hoodie mark gave my address
Was Ronnie sox Mr. 4 speed or was it Hubert mcanless
Holes are punched, not stamped.
Not a Sox's car and not the original shaker hood for that car.
Watch documentary Mr 4 speed herb McCandless he did all sox and martin drag race frames on all their cars that is not a sox and martin car herb was Mr 4 speed not Ronnie
If it was a real car it would have had a roll bar and would be easy to find evidence
Same old, same old
please, it'd be the first S&M car i ever saw WITHOUT Red sides... feh
Mr 4 Speed was NOT Ronnie. That title belongs to Herb McCandless
Sox and Martin Never ran a auto in any of their Hemi Cudas!
🏆👀
First off,"mr four speed" is still Herb mcandless who afterword drove
for sox and martin, 2nd his car/cars were original factory 4 speed hemi although customized ,hence factory dash,3rd non original shaker ring couldve very well been added after the fact as well as the possibility that car being a mcandless car turned into a sox and martin,couldnt it ,so what did you do to this car to ruin it 😂😂😂
I'd want it to be a S&M "race car" too because otherwise that car doesn't "make money" with all the missing parts and non-numbers matching. It's UGLY and very low-optioned for a HemiCuda. By the time you "source" a date-coded Hemi and all the other original/NOS missing parts and do a "rotisserie resto" on it you'll have $500K in a low-option ugly HemiCuda that isn't "worth the money" you put into "restoring" it.