The minimum prerequisite for the game to even be close to 1.0 is server stability and AI performing as intended, which isn't going to happen for a long time; add all the ships, planets, systems and features you want, but until the game runs smoothly and performs as intended, there's no chance in hell it's going to be met with anything but criticism and laughter.
Precisely. If it isnt clean and functional no ones going to want to touch this with a 10 foot stick. Hard enough getting people through bugs just to sit for another 15 minutes while we travel to do something else next thing theyre asleep lmao
you say that forgetting ppl still threw money at DCS way before it got any core updates and multithreading support to improve performance (it was bad a few years ago) 1.0 is just gunna be there glorified release so they can then say "oh hey live service now, keep supporting us please"
Its insane to bring up timelines for 1.0 when Chris only brought it up to say they're FINALLY going to start putting something solid on paper as to what ships in 1.0
Kingship invasions would 100% change the dynamic when it comes to solo play. If a capital ship capable of deploying 100s of fighters infested a system making "normal" gameplay loops impossible people wanting to play solo would be trumped and everyone would be forced to work together. Xenothreat is some cacameme bullshit, xenothreat needs to be what its named. That alone would make this game 100x more dope. Economy or not.
11:07 holy sh*t someone finally said it. Having to make titles like this is quite literally what many youtubers are forced to do to get engagement. Also, yes. 18 months for 1.0 is a super tall order. Is that the bottles of copium talking?
This game needs so much optimization and polishing work. Like atleast 1 full year of polishing on things that are currently existing in the game. If they wanted to drop it with just the features in the game now. And they want to add another 3 or 4 years worth of features. So add another 6 month to a year for polish on that too. I’m thinking 1.0 by 2030. That is if they want to release a nice, finished, polished game. Of course they could drop 1.0 with still all the bugs and unpolished features much like Ark survival evolved did. But I really want the game to feel like a game. And not have to fill the gaps with my imagination. (Also I won’t be happy until I can play as a banu. First full release 2.0 expansion?)
thing is they are at least 1-2 years in the polishing phase for SQ42 now considering they are porting a lot of stuff from SQ42 over to SC, while the code is the same, its implementation isnt so SQ42 needs to finish its polish really before SC 1.0 can even start its polish phase so its arguably 3-5 years out imo, ships still need to be finished, star systems still need to be finished (christ we still havent got pyro yet to live)
they could polish all they want without server meshing working our fps will never go up some for performance, the game is just to heavy to run as it is now.
My core belief is the thing holding back everything is server meshing. Until they master that and get it working in game, we will never see meaningful game play added. Everything will continue to be these bare bones tier 0 implementations of the game loops. Why? Because the servers are barely hanging on as it is. They can't handle any more complex gameplay than this. Server performance is why all the NPCs do nothing. Hard to add fun complex missions without NPCs involved. Server performance is why they don't bother to add animals or fish or birds. They'd just stand around like NPCs do. Server performance is why mining is the most evolved game loop, all you need is a ship and some rocks to make it work. Server performance is why we can't have proper quest givers with audio dialogue. Everything is text in our mobiglass. Server meshing should fix all this..... and if it does my hope is the gameplay floodgates will FINALLY open, and we will see the devs starting to be able to implement all the things they've been talking about. We'll see game loops finally move to tier 1 and beyond. Cities will begin to feel alive. We'll be able to follow NPCs around and watch them do their jobs, see lots of ships in the verse flying around. It will start to feel like a living, breathing MMO that feels like things have changed every time you log in. THEN we can start talking about 1.0 dates. Then we will be close to a full game in my opinion.
Beta 2028 release in 2030, been sayin it since 2020. People called me crazy, stupid, salty, etc. Happy to be proven wrong, but 2025 is legit insane or disingenuous.
I've been shat on so much for saying in 2018 there was NO CHANCE of Pyro to come in 2020... Once CIG gives crumbs of progress, a whooole lot of the player base go apeshit crazy and start howling that the content floodgates are open and release is just around the corner.
Bored has been saying 1.0 for the past 5 years. Him and ole Space Tomato are some die hard sycophants when it comes to Star Citizen. I will type this out again. If you look at what was promised and what we have currently in the game, there is absolutely NO way we get to a 1.0 Live version within the next 8-10 years. CIG would have to start axing promised features left and right to make that happen. Just the scaled back number of systems in game from 100 to just 12 or so will take them YEARS to complete alone. Now, toss in all the ship back log. Jon Crew said it will take them 12-18 months to complete just ONE capital ship and how many do we have left to see the light of day? Alien races, Earth landing zone, player housing, player bases with base building, atmospheric flight models, ship components, AI server blades, Quantum economy, NPC crews, passenger flights, VIP flights, in-game racing teams and leagues, crafting, ship modularity, ground vehicles, ROADS, settlements, outposts, in game news reporting. I'm sure I'm missing features too. ALL of that in 2 years? In what time space continuum would that ever happen?! Guys... just stop with the 1.0 stuff. Not happening anytime soon... if ever fully realized. But sure enough, folks will sit through another year of Citcon hype and start squealing 1.0 next year or the year after that. And here I thought fentanyl was America's scourge when in reality, it's Star Citizen copium!
Never trust any videos that present Star Citizen with a positive attitude related to timing, CIG never delivered anything on time. My estimation is that SQ42 will be released in 2-4 years, the end of 2026 would be my "optimistic" expectation, and early 2028 for my "pessimist" expectation. Now for the PU fully 1.0 release? Sheesh, I wouldn`t expect to be ready this decade. Keep in mind that I`m a realistic person, I`m not at all a "dreamer", and I filter all the BS from CIG marketing, for perspective, SC is lacking so many features that have been shown to us already. -Sandworm. -Server Meshing. -Pyro. -New UI. -Galaxy Map. -NPCs. -Base building. -Apartment ownership. -Hangar ownership. -Ship internal customization. -Raids. -Aliens. -Crafting. -Bounty Hunting 2.0. -Exploration gameplay loop. -Science gameplay loop. -Engineering gameplay loop. -Expedition gameplay loop. And many more....
Considering that squadron 42 is still the focus and that this is probably a year away and after that we need integration of the technical debt to have working dynamic server meshing which is likely another year away after squadron releases, I think it might take some time. At that point we most likely need to overhaul(read create) the gamplay, gold pass on the ship fleet and update to make it work with whatever new systems we had to add and then start creating all the solar systems. My best guess would be at least 5 years away.
There is absolutely no way that they release the promised game in two years. This demo that we have is nowhere near a finished game. There has to be at least 100 systems, server stuff sorted out, actual missions, etc. How many years did it take them to "finish" S42? SC is SO much bigger. I am not holding my breath that we see a 1.0 until at LEAST 7 years from now. Not a chance.
The way I see it is: whenever we talk about 1.0, that’s Beta 1.0, not release. We might have enough gameplay systems and game loops in a few years, but not content or missions, locations, ships, etc.
Minimum 5 years before 1.0. I don't believe is that close, as the statement from the CEO sounds like "we have now finished the tech stuff" and they are now starting to create the gameplay loop.
I actually agree with Mike, i mean look at what we HAVE in-game within the last 6 months. Here are my thoughts: At the current pacing i would expect Pyro to release before the end of 2025. If we get it before 2024 is over i would be ecstatic! But i try to keep it real here :) After Pyro is released, we will probably get (god bless) Modular ships! Base Building. After base building is polished up a little bit, we will probably get the Progression we are begging for. Once we get those and of course a whole bunch of Amazing ship sales in between, so the marketing team can chill out a little with the "Exclusive" Ships. After all of that we just might get some info within 1-2 years about future Star Systems. SQ42 i expect in late 2025 - 2026 to release. CIG probably wants to get SC in a "1.0 Stable Beta" Version around the time SQ42 is released. So they can use the marketing slogan "An alpha of 10+ years of development finally enters its BETA!" and make everyone excited around that. More ship sales in between.... Then i finally see after 3-5 years THIS game finally coming together, if it keeps the current pacing! :) Only after SQ42 is fully out there, do i expect SC to finally get some love. However, that is all in good hopes. I just need to put a hard hold on my spending, being a concierge is enough for me, i`m done. Until i see tangible progression, reputation system, new mission types & NEW game play loops & much more.
before all of that they have to get server meshing working, that is what is holding most things back right now, the servers can barely handles what we have now.
i have a hard time believing SC is going to be here in fewer than 5 years. they still have to release SQ42 and then deal with a bunch of inevitable bugs and tweaks. there is still a lot of server tech that needs to be tested and implemented to give SC the full scale that it needs. base building is going to take a while, star engine is continuing optimization, improving flora and fauna to make the planets feel alive, developing all the gameplay loops. there is so much stuff.
Really good thoughts, Mike. For example, I've not heard anyone else talk about the issues regarding PvP organisations and what their overarching goals might/should be. It's an important observation.
In response to what was said in the chat about NPC crew.. My group and I have been kidnapping NPCs off planets and bunkers. They have pathing for the ship, and in a few of them they sit at the terminals and act busy. just no actual function from them... yet
Mike I think that as far as crafting goes, I think the distribution centers will be the main source of blueprints. I think you will go to the specific company’s DC do missions for them and build up rep and start getting rewarded with blueprints. On the other side, you will raid them/ infiltrate them to steal blueprints.
IMO there is no point in even speculating about a 1.0 release until two things happen. First thing is Sq42 released. Not close, not having a hard release date. Until we have Sq42 in our hands and it is good there is no point talking about a 1.0 PU release until that happens it's pipe dream. Second thing that we need is stable dynamic server meshing. Those are the two key points that until we have them there is zero possibility of a 1.0 release happening. Even after we have those two things a 1.0 release is likely still multiple years away but it's not even a discussion worth having until then.
Great show Mike, pretty much agree with you. For me 1.0 is 5-6 star systems, npc crew, economy. Unfortunately 1.0 is at least 2 years out. Keep it up bro, peace
We're going to look back on this in 4 to 6 years and laugh at how foolish any of us were to think the game would be released in 2 years or less from now.
I have a couple small solo ships. Just don’t feel like buying a big or medium ship until we actually see how useful AI crew or blades are going to be i shouldent be as good as an all human crew but I need it to be usable VS the AI enemy in the games…… when or IF any form of AI ever works and we get usable server FPS
I wonder how people ignore what is going on PTU wave 1 right now )) It is for a week already CIG makes a subpatch every day or two with new characteristics of weapons and characteristics of ships related to fighting. Every day or two they change hitpoints, damage, damage type, ship speed, projectile speed, firerate, firing mechanics like overcharge and so on, sometimes changes are opposite. It looks like they have no clear plan of changes and are very preoccupied trying to figure out these numbers from PTU statistics.
When it comes to multi-crewing, I wouldn't mind if there were perks to being a crewmate. For example if I were an engineer, I wouldn't mind getting discounts on modules for larger ships, or the ability to buff the damage resistance of modules depending on how skilled I am. Skill trees for support roles on multi-crew ships would get soloers motivated to get social.
You know, the more I watch your content and see how things are. I'm starting to understand why your name is saltymike. I'm starting to agree with everything more and more. I believe it when I see it. Keep up the saltiness!
Hard to tell anything because sq42 was being made so it seems like pyro alone took 4-5 years but they were also working on Odin and vega in tandem. Right? How many other things have been started but not shown. how much faster will things get with the SQ teams switching over.
Chris Roberts was talking about the minimum viable product in 2016. You had an ATC about it 5 years ago. CIG and Roberts Space Industries will claim the game is already released if they face legal action. I think it's safe to assume there is a huge gulf between Chris Roberts idea of a minimum viable product and players idea of a minimum viable product.
Whenever 1.0 is released, it needs the obvious features and functions for the various ships to be utilized and environments to be enjoyed, but it also needs to have the small additions demonstrated over the years, ie: Ship Naming, AI blades, etc... I feel there should be 6, known star systems and 7, to be found by players with long duration/range exploration fleets, either by finding the system or a jumppoint to the new system, found about every year and a half to nearly three years (15.5 to 20.3) and maybe a few others? ;-) I've considered data running ships like spy ships, gathering data, reconnaissance, etc... and getting it to those who paid for it or just need it?
if Asmon plays Sq42 with the current style of UI, imagine the cooking CIG will get from him and his massive followers, i have little hope for CIG to realise how bad their UI is looking even after the update
@@Cmdr_V yh it will have a following, just not a big one. thats sad reality of FOMO and money sink with ship costs. but I do think SC would need a near perfect launch to be good (sad but true) it set that bar itself being the highest funded game in history and still growing atm
@@frogger2011ifythe method of monetization and extent of it has ensured they will have a long term playerbase (though it may not be enough to keep it running without private servers). Many will be unwilling to accept that our large buyins were a mistake and that the external nay sayers were right (if it flops) and stick with and defend it no mattrr what.
Crafting and base building with some sort of player influenced trading of resources for 1.0 is needed IMO. Bigger resource dependence gives way to multiple important play styles and loops. Bases need material so you should be able to buy them from players at varying prices like an auction house or stations need to only have stock based on what is actually brought in. This also makes pirating a more real play loop because you want their stuff so you don't always want to blow stuff up. Data Running however I'm fine with just being different cargo running. You have to have a ship that can hold data onboard and make it from point A to B but you aren't investing in the cargo and it can play a small role for something updating or whatever, or just a means to give a different way to do point A to B missions with a different skew. It could also lead to illegal versions of the same job where hacking is an actual skill based or time based task that needs protecting. It could be information on security fleets/known illegal information that triggers other quests. This could also be a lead in for stealth gameplay. I don't think full forms of this need to be ready for 1.0 but Crafting, base building, and actual player trading for salvaged/mined goods are.
Alright. BEFORE watching this at all. A little theory crafting! -----Near the bottom I have the post video comment.---- IMO: (Hopeful but I think not too hopeful with the recent Server Meshing progress) 0% we get 1.0 this year. 50% we get 1.0 Citcon 2025 (1.5 yrs) 95% we get 1.0 Citcon 2026 with SQ42 release. (2.5yrs) Biggeest reason for this is the old claim of 5 systems being the "minimum for release". So we kinda have to have SQ42 for Odin to drop. That would give us Stanton, Pyro, Nyx, Odin. Only one more system to call it "5 systems minimum for release". In terms of the 5th system it obviously would have to be attached to 1 of those 4. So options are: -Magnus, -Terra, -Hadrian, -Castra, -Cano, -Oso, -Tohil, -Bremen, -Tanga, -Kellog, -Virgil. Of 11 options, 7 are UEE controlled, 2 are "Developing", 1 is Unclaimed, 1 is Vanduul. Now, the hinge point. While SQ42 takes place primarily in Odin, it BEGINS during the Battle of Vega II. So I'd imagine there is a decent amount of the Vega system developed that is well hidden due to SQ42. And only 1 system connect to Vega from the original 4 mentioned above.... Bremen. Stats on Bremem. -6.14au (could change with change to Pyro size so potentially about the same as Stanton) -4 planets (Bremen I -protoplanet with no resources) (Bremen II -home to Consolidated Outland and "sparsely populated") (Bremen III -heavily mined coreless planet) (Bremen IV -Massive ice giant too risky to harvest) So I'd guess 2 easy to throw together planets, 1 with some detail, and 1 heavy detail planet. -4 Jump Points (well spread out but keeps it quite close to the SQ42 systems and original systems) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay after watching this.... wow. I think this really highlights the CIG DESPERATELY needs to define 1.0. They say 1.0 "release". Does that mean release like "we've released but we'll keep updating?" Or does that mean 1.0 release into BETA? I just assumed 1.0 was release into BETA. But it's very clear that doesn't seem to be the common mindset. Those are two very different statements. Mainly due to the fact that an actual "release" is a bit impossible within 3-4 years when we're technically still EARLY ALPHA. If 1.0 is a BETA release and what CIG would compare to an "early access release" that so many games do on steam they wouldn't be in the wrong. IF they explain it's still BETA state. Personally, I see BETA being 1.0 when I really think about how much is still needed to even start in terms of gameplay loops (zero science, zero exploration, zero farming, etc). And I'd still partly bet that we get a decent run of systems in that Beta "release". That's where I start to think Pyro in 6months , Nyx 1yr , Odin 1.5 -2yrs, SQ42 and Beta 2-3yrs out.
game wont release before dynamic server meshing is working 100%, we should see static server meshing with pyro end of year but full performance enhancements and refinery with the game code will take years, i would expect 2-3 years after sq42 releases.
I have to see full implementation of Dynamic Server Meshing before I could see a 1.0. The game just doesn't work well due to the limitations that meshing will fix.
What I think a realistic timeline is for the game, is 4.0 Either end of summer or end of year. SQ42 Beta End of year with Citcon (alongside 4.0 if it doesnt come out in summer). SQ42 full release Q1-Q2 2025. Then i think once SQ42 is fully released CIG will focus for 3 years minimum building out game mechanics. If we can get DynamicSM working by the end of 2027 then it could be possible for a 1.0 to come out at the very end of 2027, very possibly early 2028. If not DynSM then honestly whenever they change that after 2028 is when a 1.0 will come. (this is assuming they are able to ramp up production of content in those 3 years past SQ42)
Man, I honestly thinks it depends. Depends of what 1.0 entails. For me, 1.0 is not multiple Start Systems, etc. I just want it to be a game, you jump in, do a quest or 2, grind for a bit, afk for hours, and then log out...and no hiccup in between, no AI standing around forgetting what they're supposed to do, no elevator bugging out, no 30k. I don't even mind if they only release it with Stanton only..I still get the sense of wonder, landing on a moon looking up and seeing the starry sky. And I think, achieving this is far more complicated than just adding more star systems...
I think the MVP is 2nd gen of each gameplay loop that we have now with all the star systems that connect directly to Stanton. So we need Terra, Magnus Pyro, and maybe Nyx. Mining, salvage, cargo, security. bounty hunting, medical, service, and repair need to be fleshed out to a point that they are viable and profitable. I don't think we need a quantum economy yet. Yes, the economy should be sort of dynamic and big events in the game should affect the local economy, but doing one mission or one cargo run shouldn't affect the economy. All the star systems need to be lived in and not as dead and empty. AI blades and NPc crew members would be great too, but if that is not there, I wouldn't be too upset.
I also believe data running and death of a space man are not going to happen, at least not like they are described on the website. Would be interesting to see how ships like the msr or the herald would be redesigned if data running wouldn't be happening.
I can’t take anything bored gamer says seriously. Man speculates too much the fact that this is even a thing just pushes me further from Mikes content.
This video made me feel how far the game is from finished. I can’t agree more when Mike said it’s like a sandbox to fly your ship atm. Personally feel that SQ42 will either make or break SC based on how will received it is.
I think 2-4 years is generous. I'm saying 5. We still have the necessity for an economy solution (doesn't need to be dynamic, just needs to work past "Here's money, buy ships" and give you a purpose), base building, industrial loop via crafting, gold pass on MOST of the ships to bring them up to modern standards in terms of mechanics and engineering, copiloting still needs to have proper access to ship systems, bed logging needs to work 100% of the time, docking ports on ALL ships functioning outside of the 890, Data Running, etc. The list goes on and on. We're past the "framework" stage, and now we're at the "features and gameplay" stage. We're still quite a ways off from "polish and release" stage. Also, I'm still very confused as to why everyone likes to pretend like the game is 100% a multicrew game, like it was pitched as Sea of Thieves with spaceships, when we've known for years and have been reminded as of late that NPC Crew/AI Blades are still in the pipeline. They very clearly made that decision to cater to people who want bigger, specialized ships but enjoy solo play, or don't have time or the ability to schedule around friends/themselves to play with a full player crew/org. I think the people in the community who keep parroting "Lol SC is multicrew focused, maybe it's not your game" are huffing some heavy Org/PVP copium. Nah, the point of Star Citizen was to be *everyones* game. The point of Star Citizen was to play how *you* wanted to play, and to offer an unprecedentedly huge "space life simulator", and they've made clear their plans on offering those options for solo players, so I'm really confused as to why the community seems to be in denial about that.
While I don't think it's close, I also think people are generally underestimating the effect of CIG's focus changing from SQ42 to the PU. People tend to assume that things will happen based on the past, when a lot of work has already been done that we just haven't seen or heard of until now. Not to mention, specific needs were holding back development of the PU, namely persistence, server meshing, and the replication layer. They could already have 10 star systems partially developed and we wouldn't know. Look at how poorly people predicted the work moving ahead on the Polaris and other ships based on past experience. Then CIG surprised us with the actual rate they are processing these ships.
They don't even have their gameplay loops in place and are still fiddling around with basic stuff and are needlessly reiterating. I have zero confidence in anything that comes out of CIG at the moment.
@@AlexanderLeister Especially the ship combat is worrying me. They JUST NOW after years and years released a different flight/combat model which is completely unproven. It could be complete garbage for all we know. Which other game needed 10 years to even get the most basic combat done? Even now armor is completely missing from the equation after 6+ years after they talked about it. This should've been tested iterated upon and polished years ago and they've just now started. If ship combat is terrible the whole rest of the game will fail with it.
Except they share everything they’re doing publicly and none of that has been happening. 6 months after CitCon and yet to get ANYTHING ported from S42, and when S42 releases they will move devs back over from PU to the S42 sequel…
@@CitizenScott This! is why I don't trust CIG anymore. Too many broken promies, weird decisions, too much marketing bullshit and pipe dreams of Roberts.
So much fuzzy terminology - Is 'minimum viable product' what will work in the market for fulfill promises to backers? Different people are on a different place on that spectrum. There are multiple complications beyond that, such as constantly changing promises, mutually exclusive promises, different scopes at different times. 'Minimum viable product' for a project with no public announcements is very complicated as is; adding all the Star Citizen specific complications into the mix makes reasonable discussion or consensus basically impossible. So to provide the answer, what is the question?
1.0 will release (in whatever state) at the same time or just before Squadron 42 because CIG wouldn’t want to miss the opportunity to convert new players to their live service game, Star Citizen. For me, this just seems obvious! So is 1.0 moving to a subscription model e.g. 30$ per month subscription (or buy a 360$ ship and get 12 months free subscription).
I think SQN42 will release next year, with a release window announced at this years CitCon. Then Star Citizen will have a 2026 1.0 release. Thats my prediction.
My view is 1.0 is released within a month of S42. CIG is going to scale back the 1.0 to release with S42. They can not release S42 and still have an alpha/beta of SC for the new players to cross over to. When CR stated in the LFTC, “we are looking at what a 1.0 looks like”, he was preparing the backers for a possible cutting of features for the 1.0 release. “An MMO is never done”
Releasing 1.0 so early would be them killing the project. There are so many eyes on the game waiting for that magical 1.0 who've not been involved for years. Look at how much press SC gets for anything slightly major happening. 1.0 will be scrutinized to hell and back. Right now the hopium is strong and they can always say: "It's alpha". That goes away the moment 1.0 releases and if it is released even a bit unpolished it will be ripped to shreds and since there is no subscription, they rely on new people joining.
@@Xalantor I believe NOT releasing a Scaled back Polished 1.0 alongside S42 will kill SC. If people who buy into S42 are then asked to then purchase SC to "continue their experience" (S42 no longer comes with SC and vice versa) , if those people are exposed to a partially baked product who "will be finished soon", they will bail, AND THEY SHOULD. If CIG gets the eyes they want with a release of S42, they will have a ton of players who are far more casual than the most casual we have today. They will not put up with the alpha/beta mentality... they will only see a broken game and that is all SC will be to the public from then on. CR said, "... Star Citizen 1.0 is what we consider the features and content set to represent “commercial” release..." CIG need to get the features they feel they can polish done and move the more problematic features to a future MMO Expansion. They question is not "What Features are needed for 1.0", but rather "What Features are we willing to wait for" so CIG can polish 1.0 for release with S42.
Mike you expect the death of a space man stuff to not make it in the game, I agree sadly. I want it in the game but I think they will pull back because people will complain before it ever has a chance to get in and tested by us. But you and I agree, I would guess, about how the main progression system is not in the game.. ships. Since they make their money off selling ships that effectively makes it not an in-game progression option. What if there was another form of progression that CIG hasn't yet monitized? If a character we make has rep and possibly some other mechanics some day, and then that character actually means something. We cant buy a character with full rep with group a and low rep in group b. Maybe some missions will be remembered by groups so 3 charaters later that group remembers your grandpappy helped out in pyro when it was needed most. Having this sort of system setup could make rep our new most important and only non-monitized progression in the game. And it could be super valuable because character death could set us back from time to time. A ship blowing up will never cause us much issues, losing some armor will not either. But death of a spaceman with rep actually meaning something could be the only hope we have for a game to give us those old UO feelings.
Dude I can’t even get past the 30k on load screen when trying to enter the PU. Been a loyal sub to SC for 2 years. 3.23.1 comes out and I can’t play it anymore. No solutions. Ridiculous.
Star Citizen needs Server stability, Connection improvements, AI working properly, Client performance improvements (It needs to run at 60FPS stable at minimum) and then needs waaay more content for the existing gameplay loops and/or enough dynamic changes to it, to make it interesting for a longer period of time.
"How can you have an MMO without crafting?" Well that's exactly what the economy was supposed to be. Locations which NEED resources to function and produce goods to buy/sell/trade. The "crafting" would come from the in-lore purpose of each location - a weapons factory producing weapons, a refinery refining materials, etc If I had to guess, I would say that, tied with the way Quanta is going and Tony Z being MIA, crafting as they're moving forward is their hum-drum MMO bandaid fix to the problem that they are unable to make the dynamic economy they planned to.
I dont even think SQ42 will be released for another 4 years and I had the mind set that SQ42 release would happen before 1.0 . The reason being why I think SQ42 wont release for another 4 years is that CIG maybe have already cannibalized a significant portion of their protentional sales of the game already. they probably know it too which is why they are started talking about releasing on SQ42 on console. That way they can actually have good sale numbers on release. even if the game is perfect 10/10, if half of all start citizen players bought it already, that doesnt leave much left over for sales on release day. The best selling game of 2023 was Hogwarts legacy. a Good game from a massive IP meant to appeal to as much people as possible that released on all platforms and it took 1 year to sell 22 million copies. SQ42 would be a niche game released on PC only with a large player base who already bought it. The console market hasnt been touched yet. though they wouldn't release on this generation of consoles, they would wait for the next one which would be released in 2027-2028. I think 1.0 would be released after SQ42 or at the same time. I don't see 1.0 happening soon then SQ42 after
Rsi is holding back ive seen so much in videos and seen things like boats but no talk of boats in game and really PU is not going to be fixed till after SQ42 is out everything that comes out at moment is just to keep bait and hook in you ..correct me if im wrong but SQ42 is built from same engine so no need to port over ,so in saying that its all done and now just waiting for sq42 to come out before bringing all the stuff over to pu , i lov the tech demo cant wait for the game tho
37:05 You mention something that people could experience with a FPS POV and its own taste. SC is the potential Eve Online successor with its own taste. Its different because SC you are not a "race", so you don't start with buffs attributed to your own ship race. But the Player Economy and the Org End Game is 100% important to make the game a success instead of just a great looking meh. BUT you need to have more than 100 systems for this. Owning land/region and systems, 100 system is a major bottle neck.
When i played Eve i always wanted an ship that lauched drones... super expensive and was Beautifull as hell unfortnely i was an solo player with an rorqual... in order to go mine for the ship i couldnt use top gear in the groups(protection) like it would take me years to get the ship when i made the calculations.... I cried and never comeback to play the game...
I personally don’t want to see any “min/max” style mess in SC. Would be like having no-go zones for the lone sharks and that’s mmorpg territory and less “sand box”.
Boredgamer is in a fantasy land, he said ALIENS!??? HAHAHA They can't even get the basics right!!! CIG didn't think this far ahead as Mike did. They just pasted crap together and are figuring it out as they go along. This will be EVE, just in first person view. A game like this should not have an end game. You just keep adding things to it. There's sooo much that needs to be done, it's laughable. CIG FLEXED THERE MUSCLES BEFORE THEY STRETCHED FIRST. Now there hurting bad.
Thy dynamism in the economy is a bit more important for a game like this than any other. The entire game loop of hauling and trade relies on it, which feeds into a few other gameloops as well. If I buy a bunch of unobtanium from one system and bring it to another, that has to effect something like price fluctuation or an increase in production. If its a static or faked system there will end up being much less agency from the player and that would be fine in a singleplayer game (Freelancer) but in an MMO that focuses on supply and demand it creates static trade routes and meta lines. It turns what was promised to be an engaging trade system into braindead hauling while refreshing the webpage that displays the best routes. tl;dr game needs dynamic economy or else it will suck
So I think they are planning on 3 years for 1.0, realistically it won't be truly done for 10 years or more but it will get released for financial reasons in 4 and a half.
I am not holding my breath that they even deliver a proper ArcCorp within 2 years... We were told that the surface of ArcCorp was going to be accessible to players. Right now- the buildings and ships are superficial and like 1/3 scale (relative to the player). I understand that promises are going to be broken- but LZs cannot be the only places accessible to the player. That entire planet should be available to land/walk/shop/whatever. That alone is going to take 2 years.
I think people forget that there is lot more people working in star citizen now, because 42 is in polish face. I think it is like 3-4 times faster now then before.
Cig faces financial problems if they can’t get a release within the next year. Some of their big investors supposedly are allow to take back some money in 2025 depending on the state of things
I honestly think Star Citizen, in full release, would benefit from having wipes. Most of the popular games strive from wipes and seasons. How often they should be however, for agame of this scale? Minimum of yearly. But when you think about it, without wipes you'll get to a point where you have nothing to work toward and things will get stale. I'd like to see a standard universe (No wipes, ships that have been purchased through pledges) and seasonal servers (Wipes, everyone starts with choice of a few ships, possibly based on starting location. mostly player run economy) As for base building and crafting: I want it to be heavily inspired by starwars galaxies. Rather than just a random house, orgs can make cities and make their own economy, their own trading stands where players can come down and make deliveries or pick up resources. For the SWG style bases, it wouldn't be too hard for the framework of star citizen. I do not think base building has to be there on release. Star Citizen is an MMO space simulator, and the thing about MMO's is - they are never complete. I'd be happy seeing Base Building come in 1.2 or 1.5 (assuming 2.0 would be Squadron 42 sequel)
the guy might be right about a working frame but NOT a full release. Once the system is up and running, we still need : guild system, quest lines, probably some kind of tutorial / lore release, etc. You need to keep the engagement and it won't magically appear just cause the systems are ready. I'm not even mentioning debugging before release.
mmo and sandbox don't quite fit together. You need the options like you said. And we are far from there. Still waiting to see ANY FPS mission run correctly, and we aren't many on the servers atm... and testing those servers.....
although saying this, ... i wonder if you know the game FoxHole? that idea would be awesome for all out wars that could be active at all times somewhere in the universe. basically, it's a war game but everything is player done and the war keeps going wether u are there or not. Ppl need to resupply the storages, be sure weapons and gear is available to the ones that decide to go on the front lines, etc. I can easily see something like that that includes pretty much all types of work you can do in the game in the background. Fighters sure, but also supply chain, ressource gathering, etc. in the background, all done by players on both sides
I backed back in 2013, but properly started playing in 2021. Back then I said 5 years. That's 2026. So legitimately 2 years away. How I feel now, that three years have passed? "Another five years............."
1.0 has to be not earlier then least 6-12Months after dynamic Server Meshing, cause CIG will need sometime to implement and make it stable.. 4.0... or Beta I can see happen much sooner. I can see that CIG wants to push to a next Stage, so money can come in. SQ42 might also play a strong role..
I have been playing MMO's for the majority of my life, to one degree or another. I don't want a game that I CAN'T play solo. That doesn't mean I don't want to play in groups, but solo play HAS to be well supported. When I played WOW, I leveled mostly solo and I enjoyed casual interactions with other players. Once I hit max level, I started raiding and, obviously, group gameplay had to be a focus. However, then there was the daily quest grind and the grind for materials for upgrades. For the most part, I did all of that by myself. I probably spent just as much time playing solo as I did in raid/dungeon groups. Can you grind dailies with friends, yes. Can you grind materials with friends, also yes. However, some of the time you are chasing the same item and it just takes more time to do the thing you need to do. My point is, if CIG can't make the game in such a way that it is solo 'friendly,' it won't do well. Players will always find something that they prefer to do solo. If my barrier to playing solo, for instance, is that I need someone to swap fuses, that's not a compelling reasons to run with a friend. I want my friends to enhance my gameplay, not be needed to meet a viable level of fun.
I put a google calendar reminder in for Oct 18th 2025 to come back and watch this to see how far the game has actually progressed :)
Soon, the floodgates will open! Every year since 2016.
The minimum prerequisite for the game to even be close to 1.0 is server stability and AI performing as intended, which isn't going to happen for a long time; add all the ships, planets, systems and features you want, but until the game runs smoothly and performs as intended, there's no chance in hell it's going to be met with anything but criticism and laughter.
Precisely. If it isnt clean and functional no ones going to want to touch this with a 10 foot stick. Hard enough getting people through bugs just to sit for another 15 minutes while we travel to do something else next thing theyre asleep lmao
you say that forgetting ppl still threw money at DCS way before it got any core updates and multithreading support to improve performance (it was bad a few years ago) 1.0 is just gunna be there glorified release so they can then say "oh hey live service now, keep supporting us please"
I have several friends interested in the game but absolutely refuse to play it until it's less buggy.
@@123TheCloopExactly. “We did it guys! Keep funding us please.”
DCS has scope, and the military @@123TheCloop
I hope 1.0 isn’t close. If they call anything near what we have now as 1.0, it will hurt the game. May as well stay alpha for years more.
Another 12 years by their progress lol
I like how Bored named off a millions things that needs to be done and then turns around and say “Yep, should be ready in a year or 2” 😅
Based.
I could care less about 1.0 all I care about is having something to actually do in the game, and QOL improvements for things like UI, star map, etc.
Its insane to bring up timelines for 1.0 when Chris only brought it up to say they're FINALLY going to start putting something solid on paper as to what ships in 1.0
Kingship invasions would 100% change the dynamic when it comes to solo play.
If a capital ship capable of deploying 100s of fighters infested a system making "normal" gameplay loops impossible people wanting to play solo would be trumped and everyone would be forced to work together.
Xenothreat is some cacameme bullshit, xenothreat needs to be what its named. That alone would make this game 100x more dope. Economy or not.
Where are my "in 3 years" citizens!? :) o7
EDIT: in case it wasn't obvious my guess is 3 years min. ;)
yeah 3 years minimum is my guess too. Good to see ya Alita!
@@hankmoody8490 Stalker.
Kidding! Hey hey Moody. :P
It's always 2 years away
I was always a 2 years away guy myself lmao
Hoooold the line! It's coming in year 2142 we are almost 1/4th of the way there if you delude yourself😂
I think with us not hearing from tony z and quantum in so long tells me there are working on something different now honestly
This. Quantum hit a wall or is gonna be a mic drop surprise
Nah it’s just waiting for meshing like AI, desync, and basically everything else.
@@CitizenScott honestly they have been shadow working on so much shit it's impressive
@@beardedbarnstormer9577 Like what
@@CitizenScott tons of graphics enhancements and vulkan really, impressed at the rapid iteration for something very lightly touched on as in progress
11:07 holy sh*t someone finally said it. Having to make titles like this is quite literally what many youtubers are forced to do to get engagement.
Also, yes. 18 months for 1.0 is a super tall order. Is that the bottles of copium talking?
This game needs so much optimization and polishing work. Like atleast 1 full year of polishing on things that are currently existing in the game. If they wanted to drop it with just the features in the game now. And they want to add another 3 or 4 years worth of features. So add another 6 month to a year for polish on that too. I’m thinking 1.0 by 2030. That is if they want to release a nice, finished, polished game. Of course they could drop 1.0 with still all the bugs and unpolished features much like Ark survival evolved did. But I really want the game to feel like a game. And not have to fill the gaps with my imagination. (Also I won’t be happy until I can play as a banu. First full release 2.0 expansion?)
thing is they are at least 1-2 years in the polishing phase for SQ42 now considering they are porting a lot of stuff from SQ42 over to SC, while the code is the same, its implementation isnt so SQ42 needs to finish its polish really before SC 1.0 can even start its polish phase so its arguably 3-5 years out imo, ships still need to be finished, star systems still need to be finished (christ we still havent got pyro yet to live)
they could polish all they want without server meshing working our fps will never go up some for performance, the game is just to heavy to run as it is now.
My core belief is the thing holding back everything is server meshing. Until they master that and get it working in game, we will never see meaningful game play added. Everything will continue to be these bare bones tier 0 implementations of the game loops. Why? Because the servers are barely hanging on as it is. They can't handle any more complex gameplay than this.
Server performance is why all the NPCs do nothing. Hard to add fun complex missions without NPCs involved. Server performance is why they don't bother to add animals or fish or birds. They'd just stand around like NPCs do. Server performance is why mining is the most evolved game loop, all you need is a ship and some rocks to make it work. Server performance is why we can't have proper quest givers with audio dialogue. Everything is text in our mobiglass.
Server meshing should fix all this..... and if it does my hope is the gameplay floodgates will FINALLY open, and we will see the devs starting to be able to implement all the things they've been talking about. We'll see game loops finally move to tier 1 and beyond. Cities will begin to feel alive. We'll be able to follow NPCs around and watch them do their jobs, see lots of ships in the verse flying around. It will start to feel like a living, breathing MMO that feels like things have changed every time you log in.
THEN we can start talking about 1.0 dates. Then we will be close to a full game in my opinion.
Beta 2028 release in 2030, been sayin it since 2020. People called me crazy, stupid, salty, etc. Happy to be proven wrong, but 2025 is legit insane or disingenuous.
I've been shat on so much for saying in 2018 there was NO CHANCE of Pyro to come in 2020... Once CIG gives crumbs of progress, a whooole lot of the player base go apeshit crazy and start howling that the content floodgates are open and release is just around the corner.
Bored has been saying 1.0 for the past 5 years. Him and ole Space Tomato are some die hard sycophants when it comes to Star Citizen. I will type this out again. If you look at what was promised and what we have currently in the game, there is absolutely NO way we get to a 1.0 Live version within the next 8-10 years. CIG would have to start axing promised features left and right to make that happen. Just the scaled back number of systems in game from 100 to just 12 or so will take them YEARS to complete alone. Now, toss in all the ship back log. Jon Crew said it will take them 12-18 months to complete just ONE capital ship and how many do we have left to see the light of day? Alien races, Earth landing zone, player housing, player bases with base building, atmospheric flight models, ship components, AI server blades, Quantum economy, NPC crews, passenger flights, VIP flights, in-game racing teams and leagues, crafting, ship modularity, ground vehicles, ROADS, settlements, outposts, in game news reporting. I'm sure I'm missing features too. ALL of that in 2 years? In what time space continuum would that ever happen?! Guys... just stop with the 1.0 stuff. Not happening anytime soon... if ever fully realized. But sure enough, folks will sit through another year of Citcon hype and start squealing 1.0 next year or the year after that. And here I thought fentanyl was America's scourge when in reality, it's Star Citizen copium!
Never trust any videos that present Star Citizen with a positive attitude related to timing, CIG never delivered anything on time.
My estimation is that SQ42 will be released in 2-4 years, the end of 2026 would be my "optimistic" expectation, and early 2028 for my "pessimist" expectation.
Now for the PU fully 1.0 release? Sheesh, I wouldn`t expect to be ready this decade.
Keep in mind that I`m a realistic person, I`m not at all a "dreamer", and I filter all the BS from CIG marketing, for perspective, SC is lacking so many features that have been shown to us already.
-Sandworm.
-Server Meshing.
-Pyro.
-New UI.
-Galaxy Map.
-NPCs.
-Base building.
-Apartment ownership.
-Hangar ownership.
-Ship internal customization.
-Raids.
-Aliens.
-Crafting.
-Bounty Hunting 2.0.
-Exploration gameplay loop.
-Science gameplay loop.
-Engineering gameplay loop.
-Expedition gameplay loop.
And many more....
Considering that squadron 42 is still the focus and that this is probably a year away and after that we need integration of the technical debt to have working dynamic server meshing which is likely another year away after squadron releases, I think it might take some time. At that point we most likely need to overhaul(read create) the gamplay, gold pass on the ship fleet and update to make it work with whatever new systems we had to add and then start creating all the solar systems. My best guess would be at least 5 years away.
There is absolutely no way that they release the promised game in two years. This demo that we have is nowhere near a finished game. There has to be at least 100 systems, server stuff sorted out, actual missions, etc. How many years did it take them to "finish" S42? SC is SO much bigger. I am not holding my breath that we see a 1.0 until at LEAST 7 years from now. Not a chance.
For many years Bored drank too much of the Kool-Aid
Yea he’s such child, so easily duped he’s the kind of person who keeps throwing money on the roulette wheel until he wins.
Let them release 4.0 this summer, the base building and then I would be ready to hear them talk about 1.0
Im not, even with based building and pyro this game is nothing like what I personally expected it to become.
4.0 is end of the year
@@ludovics7078 yeah SM and Pyro at the end of the year and SQ42 in two years like every years 😉
Which year
"4.0 this summer" lol
Lets face it, they have about 3-4 years of Tech Debt theyve managed to build...
The way I see it is: whenever we talk about 1.0, that’s Beta 1.0, not release. We might have enough gameplay systems and game loops in a few years, but not content or missions, locations, ships, etc.
Them investors ain't gonna pay themselves.
Minimum 5 years before 1.0. I don't believe is that close, as the statement from the CEO sounds like "we have now finished the tech stuff" and they are now starting to create the gameplay loop.
I actually agree with Mike, i mean look at what we HAVE in-game within the last 6 months. Here are my thoughts:
At the current pacing i would expect Pyro to release before the end of 2025. If we get it before 2024 is over i would be ecstatic! But i try to keep it real here :)
After Pyro is released, we will probably get (god bless) Modular ships! Base Building. After base building is polished up a little bit, we will probably get the Progression we are begging for.
Once we get those and of course a whole bunch of Amazing ship sales in between, so the marketing team can chill out a little with the "Exclusive" Ships.
After all of that we just might get some info within 1-2 years about future Star Systems. SQ42 i expect in late 2025 - 2026 to release. CIG probably wants to get SC in a "1.0 Stable Beta" Version around the time SQ42 is released. So they can use the marketing slogan "An alpha of 10+ years of development finally enters its BETA!" and make everyone excited around that.
More ship sales in between....
Then i finally see after 3-5 years THIS game finally coming together, if it keeps the current pacing! :) Only after SQ42 is fully out there, do i expect SC to finally get some love.
However, that is all in good hopes. I just need to put a hard hold on my spending, being a concierge is enough for me, i`m done. Until i see tangible progression, reputation system, new mission types & NEW game play loops & much more.
before all of that they have to get server meshing working, that is what is holding most things back right now, the servers can barely handles what we have now.
i have a hard time believing SC is going to be here in fewer than 5 years. they still have to release SQ42 and then deal with a bunch of inevitable bugs and tweaks. there is still a lot of server tech that needs to be tested and implemented to give SC the full scale that it needs. base building is going to take a while, star engine is continuing optimization, improving flora and fauna to make the planets feel alive, developing all the gameplay loops. there is so much stuff.
I will put this game in my Testament for my grandchildren. This is when i predict it will come out.
Gotta get that 5.0 Beta Test Phase in there between the Pyro launch and 1.0 as well
Really good thoughts, Mike. For example, I've not heard anyone else talk about the issues regarding PvP organisations and what their overarching goals might/should be. It's an important observation.
In response to what was said in the chat about NPC crew.. My group and I have been kidnapping NPCs off planets and bunkers. They have pathing for the ship, and in a few of them they sit at the terminals and act busy. just no actual function from them... yet
Mike I think that as far as crafting goes, I think the distribution centers will be the main source of blueprints. I think you will go to the specific company’s DC do missions for them and build up rep and start getting rewarded with blueprints. On the other side, you will raid them/ infiltrate them to steal blueprints.
IMO there is no point in even speculating about a 1.0 release until two things happen. First thing is Sq42 released. Not close, not having a hard release date. Until we have Sq42 in our hands and it is good there is no point talking about a 1.0 PU release until that happens it's pipe dream. Second thing that we need is stable dynamic server meshing. Those are the two key points that until we have them there is zero possibility of a 1.0 release happening. Even after we have those two things a 1.0 release is likely still multiple years away but it's not even a discussion worth having until then.
Great show Mike, pretty much agree with you. For me 1.0 is 5-6 star systems, npc crew, economy. Unfortunately 1.0 is at least 2 years out. Keep it up bro, peace
We're going to look back on this in 4 to 6 years and laugh at how foolish any of us were to think the game would be released in 2 years or less from now.
I have a couple small solo ships. Just don’t feel like buying a big or medium ship until we actually see how useful AI crew or blades are going to be i shouldent be as good as an all human crew but I need it to be usable VS the AI enemy in the games…… when or IF any form of AI ever works and we get usable server FPS
I wonder how people ignore what is going on PTU wave 1 right now )) It is for a week already CIG makes a subpatch every day or two with new characteristics of weapons and characteristics of ships related to fighting. Every day or two they change hitpoints, damage, damage type, ship speed, projectile speed, firerate, firing mechanics like overcharge and so on, sometimes changes are opposite. It looks like they have no clear plan of changes and are very preoccupied trying to figure out these numbers from PTU statistics.
When it comes to multi-crewing, I wouldn't mind if there were perks to being a crewmate. For example if I were an engineer, I wouldn't mind getting discounts on modules for larger ships, or the ability to buff the damage resistance of modules depending on how skilled I am. Skill trees for support roles on multi-crew ships would get soloers motivated to get social.
You know, the more I watch your content and see how things are. I'm starting to understand why your name is saltymike. I'm starting to agree with everything more and more. I believe it when I see it. Keep up the saltiness!
He has the most realistic view of the project from all the different SC content creators I've seen since I joined this god damn dream 10 years ago.
Hard to tell anything because sq42 was being made so it seems like pyro alone took 4-5 years but they were also working on Odin and vega in tandem. Right? How many other things have been started but not shown. how much faster will things get with the SQ teams switching over.
probably a lot faster, this is like a team working on 2 games at the same time, once SQ42 is over they can port all the stuff they done on it.
I agree with your take on the dynamic economy. many players wont even notice their impact, and it may only affect large Org long term strategies
Chris Roberts was talking about the minimum viable product in 2016. You had an ATC about it 5 years ago. CIG and Roberts Space Industries will claim the game is already released if they face legal action. I think it's safe to assume there is a huge gulf between Chris Roberts idea of a minimum viable product and players idea of a minimum viable product.
The game will release and the dev team will be in walkers or wheel chairs with full heads of gray hair.
10 years, minimum. They don't even have 1 working solar system yet.
Whenever 1.0 is released, it needs the obvious features and functions for the various ships to be utilized and environments to be enjoyed, but it also needs to have the small additions demonstrated over the years, ie: Ship Naming, AI blades, etc...
I feel there should be 6, known star systems and 7, to be found by players with long duration/range exploration fleets, either by finding the system or a jumppoint to the new system, found about every year and a half to nearly three years (15.5 to 20.3) and maybe a few others? ;-)
I've considered data running ships like spy ships, gathering data, reconnaissance, etc... and getting it to those who paid for it or just need it?
Bet him a Drake Kraken. Do it. I heard talks of a bet but no bets placed.
if Asmon plays Sq42 with the current style of UI, imagine the cooking CIG will get from him and his massive followers, i have little hope for CIG to realise how bad their UI is looking even after the update
Right! At this point anything other than a near perfect launch will kill the game in a month
@@frogger2011ify this games going to always have a following... How big of a following time will tell lol
@@Cmdr_V yh it will have a following, just not a big one. thats sad reality of FOMO and money sink with ship costs. but I do think SC would need a near perfect launch to be good (sad but true) it set that bar itself being the highest funded game in history and still growing atm
@@frogger2011ifythe method of monetization and extent of it has ensured they will have a long term playerbase (though it may not be enough to keep it running without private servers).
Many will be unwilling to accept that our large buyins were a mistake and that the external nay sayers were right (if it flops) and stick with and defend it no mattrr what.
Crafting and base building with some sort of player influenced trading of resources for 1.0 is needed IMO. Bigger resource dependence gives way to multiple important play styles and loops. Bases need material so you should be able to buy them from players at varying prices like an auction house or stations need to only have stock based on what is actually brought in. This also makes pirating a more real play loop because you want their stuff so you don't always want to blow stuff up. Data Running however I'm fine with just being different cargo running. You have to have a ship that can hold data onboard and make it from point A to B but you aren't investing in the cargo and it can play a small role for something updating or whatever, or just a means to give a different way to do point A to B missions with a different skew. It could also lead to illegal versions of the same job where hacking is an actual skill based or time based task that needs protecting. It could be information on security fleets/known illegal information that triggers other quests. This could also be a lead in for stealth gameplay. I don't think full forms of this need to be ready for 1.0 but Crafting, base building, and actual player trading for salvaged/mined goods are.
I dont want star citizen to lose its ambitions
That's the reason i keep follow the development of this game bro
Alright. BEFORE watching this at all. A little theory crafting! -----Near the bottom I have the post video comment.----
IMO: (Hopeful but I think not too hopeful with the recent Server Meshing progress)
0% we get 1.0 this year.
50% we get 1.0 Citcon 2025 (1.5 yrs)
95% we get 1.0 Citcon 2026 with SQ42 release. (2.5yrs)
Biggeest reason for this is the old claim of 5 systems being the "minimum for release". So we kinda have to have SQ42 for Odin to drop. That would give us Stanton, Pyro, Nyx, Odin. Only one more system to call it "5 systems minimum for release". In terms of the 5th system it obviously would have to be attached to 1 of those 4.
So options are: -Magnus, -Terra, -Hadrian, -Castra, -Cano, -Oso, -Tohil, -Bremen, -Tanga, -Kellog, -Virgil. Of 11 options, 7 are UEE controlled, 2 are "Developing", 1 is Unclaimed, 1 is Vanduul.
Now, the hinge point. While SQ42 takes place primarily in Odin, it BEGINS during the Battle of Vega II. So I'd imagine there is a decent amount of the Vega system developed that is well hidden due to SQ42. And only 1 system connect to Vega from the original 4 mentioned above.... Bremen.
Stats on Bremem.
-6.14au (could change with change to Pyro size so potentially about the same as Stanton)
-4 planets (Bremen I -protoplanet with no resources) (Bremen II -home to Consolidated Outland and "sparsely populated") (Bremen III -heavily mined coreless planet) (Bremen IV -Massive ice giant too risky to harvest) So I'd guess 2 easy to throw together planets, 1 with some detail, and 1 heavy detail planet.
-4 Jump Points (well spread out but keeps it quite close to the SQ42 systems and original systems)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Okay after watching this.... wow. I think this really highlights the CIG DESPERATELY needs to define 1.0. They say 1.0 "release". Does that mean release like "we've released but we'll keep updating?" Or does that mean 1.0 release into BETA? I just assumed 1.0 was release into BETA. But it's very clear that doesn't seem to be the common mindset.
Those are two very different statements. Mainly due to the fact that an actual "release" is a bit impossible within 3-4 years when we're technically still EARLY ALPHA. If 1.0 is a BETA release and what CIG would compare to an "early access release" that so many games do on steam they wouldn't be in the wrong. IF they explain it's still BETA state. Personally, I see BETA being 1.0 when I really think about how much is still needed to even start in terms of gameplay loops (zero science, zero exploration, zero farming, etc). And I'd still partly bet that we get a decent run of systems in that Beta "release". That's where I start to think Pyro in 6months , Nyx 1yr , Odin 1.5 -2yrs, SQ42 and Beta 2-3yrs out.
game wont release before dynamic server meshing is working 100%, we should see static server meshing with pyro end of year but full performance enhancements and refinery with the game code will take years, i would expect 2-3 years after sq42 releases.
I have to see full implementation of Dynamic Server Meshing before I could see a 1.0. The game just doesn't work well due to the limitations that meshing will fix.
What I think a realistic timeline is for the game, is 4.0 Either end of summer or end of year. SQ42 Beta End of year with Citcon (alongside 4.0 if it doesnt come out in summer). SQ42 full release Q1-Q2 2025. Then i think once SQ42 is fully released CIG will focus for 3 years minimum building out game mechanics. If we can get DynamicSM working by the end of 2027 then it could be possible for a 1.0 to come out at the very end of 2027, very possibly early 2028. If not DynSM then honestly whenever they change that after 2028 is when a 1.0 will come. (this is assuming they are able to ramp up production of content in those 3 years past SQ42)
Cloud compute is not cheap anymore. It would be so awesome to get an ISC on the actual infrastructure from an Ops perspective
They want a 1.0 for the S42 release (18 months out). That makes sense but I don’t think it will be ready for that based on their past/resent history.
Even Jared said in the last video: in the road to 4.0..
Man, I honestly thinks it depends. Depends of what 1.0 entails. For me, 1.0 is not multiple Start Systems, etc. I just want it to be a game, you jump in, do a quest or 2, grind for a bit, afk for hours, and then log out...and no hiccup in between, no AI standing around forgetting what they're supposed to do, no elevator bugging out, no 30k. I don't even mind if they only release it with Stanton only..I still get the sense of wonder, landing on a moon looking up and seeing the starry sky.
And I think, achieving this is far more complicated than just adding more star systems...
I think the MVP is 2nd gen of each gameplay loop that we have now with all the star systems that connect directly to Stanton. So we need Terra, Magnus Pyro, and maybe Nyx.
Mining, salvage, cargo, security. bounty hunting, medical, service, and repair need to be fleshed out to a point that they are viable and profitable.
I don't think we need a quantum economy yet. Yes, the economy should be sort of dynamic and big events in the game should affect the local economy, but doing one mission or one cargo run shouldn't affect the economy.
All the star systems need to be lived in and not as dead and empty.
AI blades and NPc crew members would be great too, but if that is not there, I wouldn't be too upset.
47:48 yikes. kind of embarrassing...
Richard Tyrer said he wants to give us quarterly big updates! 6 months since citizencon but they have given us nothing?!
nothing? 3.23 will be out at max mid may and is already in testing
3.23 Its a reskin of what we have. And a bunch of redoing of what we already have.
@@Silveragayet still feels very lack luster and buggy af
I do remember the Pyro 2020 hype!
I also believe data running and death of a space man are not going to happen, at least not like they are described on the website. Would be interesting to see how ships like the msr or the herald would be redesigned if data running wouldn't be happening.
I can’t take anything bored gamer says seriously. Man speculates too much the fact that this is even a thing just pushes me further from Mikes content.
This video made me feel how far the game is from finished. I can’t agree more when Mike said it’s like a sandbox to fly your ship atm.
Personally feel that SQ42 will either make or break SC based on how will received it is.
I think 2-4 years is generous. I'm saying 5. We still have the necessity for an economy solution (doesn't need to be dynamic, just needs to work past "Here's money, buy ships" and give you a purpose), base building, industrial loop via crafting, gold pass on MOST of the ships to bring them up to modern standards in terms of mechanics and engineering, copiloting still needs to have proper access to ship systems, bed logging needs to work 100% of the time, docking ports on ALL ships functioning outside of the 890, Data Running, etc.
The list goes on and on. We're past the "framework" stage, and now we're at the "features and gameplay" stage. We're still quite a ways off from "polish and release" stage.
Also, I'm still very confused as to why everyone likes to pretend like the game is 100% a multicrew game, like it was pitched as Sea of Thieves with spaceships, when we've known for years and have been reminded as of late that NPC Crew/AI Blades are still in the pipeline. They very clearly made that decision to cater to people who want bigger, specialized ships but enjoy solo play, or don't have time or the ability to schedule around friends/themselves to play with a full player crew/org.
I think the people in the community who keep parroting "Lol SC is multicrew focused, maybe it's not your game" are huffing some heavy Org/PVP copium. Nah, the point of Star Citizen was to be *everyones* game. The point of Star Citizen was to play how *you* wanted to play, and to offer an unprecedentedly huge "space life simulator", and they've made clear their plans on offering those options for solo players, so I'm really confused as to why the community seems to be in denial about that.
Does anyone know when we ordinary guys can download 3.2.3?
While I don't think it's close, I also think people are generally underestimating the effect of CIG's focus changing from SQ42 to the PU. People tend to assume that things will happen based on the past, when a lot of work has already been done that we just haven't seen or heard of until now. Not to mention, specific needs were holding back development of the PU, namely persistence, server meshing, and the replication layer. They could already have 10 star systems partially developed and we wouldn't know. Look at how poorly people predicted the work moving ahead on the Polaris and other ships based on past experience. Then CIG surprised us with the actual rate they are processing these ships.
They don't even have their gameplay loops in place and are still fiddling around with basic stuff and are needlessly reiterating.
I have zero confidence in anything that comes out of CIG at the moment.
@@AlexanderLeister Especially the ship combat is worrying me. They JUST NOW after years and years released a different flight/combat model which is completely unproven. It could be complete garbage for all we know. Which other game needed 10 years to even get the most basic combat done? Even now armor is completely missing from the equation after 6+ years after they talked about it. This should've been tested iterated upon and polished years ago and they've just now started. If ship combat is terrible the whole rest of the game will fail with it.
Except they share everything they’re doing publicly and none of that has been happening. 6 months after CitCon and yet to get ANYTHING ported from S42, and when S42 releases they will move devs back over from PU to the S42 sequel…
@@CitizenScott This! is why I don't trust CIG anymore. Too many broken promies, weird decisions, too much marketing bullshit and pipe dreams of Roberts.
So much fuzzy terminology - Is 'minimum viable product' what will work in the market for fulfill promises to backers? Different people are on a different place on that spectrum. There are multiple complications beyond that, such as constantly changing promises, mutually exclusive promises, different scopes at different times. 'Minimum viable product' for a project with no public announcements is very complicated as is; adding all the Star Citizen specific complications into the mix makes reasonable discussion or consensus basically impossible.
So to provide the answer, what is the question?
1.0 will release (in whatever state) at the same time or just before Squadron 42 because CIG wouldn’t want to miss the opportunity to convert new players to their live service game, Star Citizen.
For me, this just seems obvious! So is 1.0 moving to a subscription model e.g. 30$ per month subscription (or buy a 360$ ship and get 12 months free subscription).
I think SQN42 will release next year, with a release window announced at this years CitCon. Then Star Citizen will have a 2026 1.0 release. Thats my prediction.
My view is 1.0 is released within a month of S42.
CIG is going to scale back the 1.0 to release with S42. They can not release S42 and still have an alpha/beta of SC for the new players to cross over to.
When CR stated in the LFTC, “we are looking at what a 1.0 looks like”, he was preparing the backers for a possible cutting of features for the 1.0 release.
“An MMO is never done”
Releasing 1.0 so early would be them killing the project. There are so many eyes on the game waiting for that magical 1.0 who've not been involved for years. Look at how much press SC gets for anything slightly major happening. 1.0 will be scrutinized to hell and back. Right now the hopium is strong and they can always say: "It's alpha". That goes away the moment 1.0 releases and if it is released even a bit unpolished it will be ripped to shreds and since there is no subscription, they rely on new people joining.
@@Xalantor I believe NOT releasing a Scaled back Polished 1.0 alongside S42 will kill SC. If people who buy into S42 are then asked to then purchase SC to "continue their experience" (S42 no longer comes with SC and vice versa) , if those people are exposed to a partially baked product who "will be finished soon", they will bail, AND THEY SHOULD.
If CIG gets the eyes they want with a release of S42, they will have a ton of players who are far more casual than the most casual we have today. They will not put up with the alpha/beta mentality... they will only see a broken game and that is all SC will be to the public from then on.
CR said, "... Star Citizen 1.0 is what we consider the features and content set to represent “commercial” release..."
CIG need to get the features they feel they can polish done and move the more problematic features to a future MMO Expansion.
They question is not "What Features are needed for 1.0", but rather "What Features are we willing to wait for" so CIG can polish 1.0 for release with S42.
The fact that CR mentioned base building for 1.0 makes me think it will be pushed to a 1.x patch. :P
Mike you expect the death of a space man stuff to not make it in the game, I agree sadly. I want it in the game but I think they will pull back because people will complain before it ever has a chance to get in and tested by us.
But you and I agree, I would guess, about how the main progression system is not in the game.. ships. Since they make their money off selling ships that effectively makes it not an in-game progression option. What if there was another form of progression that CIG hasn't yet monitized? If a character we make has rep and possibly some other mechanics some day, and then that character actually means something. We cant buy a character with full rep with group a and low rep in group b. Maybe some missions will be remembered by groups so 3 charaters later that group remembers your grandpappy helped out in pyro when it was needed most.
Having this sort of system setup could make rep our new most important and only non-monitized progression in the game. And it could be super valuable because character death could set us back from time to time. A ship blowing up will never cause us much issues, losing some armor will not either. But death of a spaceman with rep actually meaning something could be the only hope we have for a game to give us those old UO feelings.
Dude I can’t even get past the 30k on load screen when trying to enter the PU. Been a loyal sub to SC for 2 years. 3.23.1 comes out and I can’t play it anymore. No solutions. Ridiculous.
Star Citizen needs Server stability, Connection improvements, AI working properly, Client performance improvements (It needs to run at 60FPS stable at minimum) and then needs waaay more content for the existing gameplay loops and/or enough dynamic changes to it, to make it interesting for a longer period of time.
"How can you have an MMO without crafting?"
Well that's exactly what the economy was supposed to be. Locations which NEED resources to function and produce goods to buy/sell/trade. The "crafting" would come from the in-lore purpose of each location - a weapons factory producing weapons, a refinery refining materials, etc
If I had to guess, I would say that, tied with the way Quanta is going and Tony Z being MIA, crafting as they're moving forward is their hum-drum MMO bandaid fix to the problem that they are unable to make the dynamic economy they planned to.
I think Boreds point at the start is that with the SQ42 stuff its setting it up for more gameplay..but Il keep watching..
He thinks we will have 5 star systems in 1-2 years yea ok thats not possible but Il keep watching 😊...
4 years? Jesus you are such an optimist.
4 years sounds plausible - for the start of the beta. Then another 5 years beta. Then early access to not be liable for another 5 years...
@@AlexanderLeister M8 2015 sounded plausible when they pitched it to me and I bought in.
Haven’t watched the vid yet - but an hour long reaction for an 18 min video is exactly what I need
I dont even think SQ42 will be released for another 4 years and I had the mind set that SQ42 release would happen before 1.0 . The reason being why I think SQ42 wont release for another 4 years is that CIG maybe have already cannibalized a significant portion of their protentional sales of the game already. they probably know it too which is why they are started talking about releasing on SQ42 on console. That way they can actually have good sale numbers on release. even if the game is perfect 10/10, if half of all start citizen players bought it already, that doesnt leave much left over for sales on release day. The best selling game of 2023 was Hogwarts legacy. a Good game from a massive IP meant to appeal to as much people as possible that released on all platforms and it took 1 year to sell 22 million copies. SQ42 would be a niche game released on PC only with a large player base who already bought it. The console market hasnt been touched yet. though they wouldn't release on this generation of consoles, they would wait for the next one which would be released in 2027-2028. I think 1.0 would be released after SQ42 or at the same time. I don't see 1.0 happening soon then SQ42 after
Rsi is holding back ive seen so much in videos and seen things like boats but no talk of boats in game and really PU is not going to be fixed till after SQ42 is out
everything that comes out at moment is just to keep bait and hook in you ..correct me if im wrong but SQ42 is built from same engine so no need to port over ,so in saying that its all done and now just waiting for sq42 to come out before bringing all the stuff over to pu ,
i lov the tech demo cant wait for the game tho
37:05 You mention something that people could experience with a FPS POV and its own taste. SC is the potential Eve Online successor with its own taste. Its different because SC you are not a "race", so you don't start with buffs attributed to your own ship race. But the Player Economy and the Org End Game is 100% important to make the game a success instead of just a great looking meh. BUT you need to have more than 100 systems for this. Owning land/region and systems, 100 system is a major bottle neck.
When i played Eve i always wanted an ship that lauched drones... super expensive and was Beautifull as hell unfortnely i was an solo player with an rorqual... in order to go mine for the ship i couldnt use top gear in the groups(protection) like it would take me years to get the ship when i made the calculations.... I cried and never comeback to play the game...
I personally don’t want to see any “min/max” style mess in SC. Would be like having no-go zones for the lone sharks and that’s mmorpg territory and less “sand box”.
Boredgamer is in a fantasy land, he said ALIENS!??? HAHAHA They can't even get the basics right!!!
CIG didn't think this far ahead as Mike did. They just pasted crap together and are figuring it out as they go along. This will be EVE, just in first person view. A game like this should not have an end game. You just keep adding things to it. There's sooo much that needs to be done, it's laughable. CIG FLEXED THERE MUSCLES BEFORE THEY STRETCHED FIRST. Now there hurting bad.
When Star Citizen releases in 3177 it's going to be amazing, my great great grandchildren are going to love it.
Thy dynamism in the economy is a bit more important for a game like this than any other. The entire game loop of hauling and trade relies on it, which feeds into a few other gameloops as well. If I buy a bunch of unobtanium from one system and bring it to another, that has to effect something like price fluctuation or an increase in production. If its a static or faked system there will end up being much less agency from the player and that would be fine in a singleplayer game (Freelancer) but in an MMO that focuses on supply and demand it creates static trade routes and meta lines. It turns what was promised to be an engaging trade system into braindead hauling while refreshing the webpage that displays the best routes.
tl;dr game needs dynamic economy or else it will suck
So I think they are planning on 3 years for 1.0, realistically it won't be truly done for 10 years or more but it will get released for financial reasons in 4 and a half.
I am not holding my breath that they even deliver a proper ArcCorp within 2 years... We were told that the surface of ArcCorp was going to be accessible to players. Right now- the buildings and ships are superficial and like 1/3 scale (relative to the player). I understand that promises are going to be broken- but LZs cannot be the only places accessible to the player. That entire planet should be available to land/walk/shop/whatever. That alone is going to take 2 years.
I think people forget that there is lot more people working in star citizen now, because 42 is in polish face. I think it is like 3-4 times faster now then before.
I like Bored Gamer, love his enthusiasm, his optimism. But I fear on this issue, an SC 1.0, he is way off the mark.
Minimum 2 :D He just said that.
Has he seen the frames in the game? The crashes.
Cig faces financial problems if they can’t get a release within the next year. Some of their big investors supposedly are allow to take back some money in 2025 depending on the state of things
imo its going beta once pyro releases and then its going 1.0 with a 2 system drop about 1 year later
I honestly think Star Citizen, in full release, would benefit from having wipes. Most of the popular games strive from wipes and seasons. How often they should be however, for agame of this scale? Minimum of yearly. But when you think about it, without wipes you'll get to a point where you have nothing to work toward and things will get stale. I'd like to see a standard universe (No wipes, ships that have been purchased through pledges) and seasonal servers (Wipes, everyone starts with choice of a few ships, possibly based on starting location. mostly player run economy)
As for base building and crafting: I want it to be heavily inspired by starwars galaxies. Rather than just a random house, orgs can make cities and make their own economy, their own trading stands where players can come down and make deliveries or pick up resources. For the SWG style bases, it wouldn't be too hard for the framework of star citizen.
I do not think base building has to be there on release. Star Citizen is an MMO space simulator, and the thing about MMO's is - they are never complete.
I'd be happy seeing Base Building come in 1.2 or 1.5 (assuming 2.0 would be Squadron 42 sequel)
Base building will be next year and not after 1.0
the guy might be right about a working frame but NOT a full release. Once the system is up and running, we still need : guild system, quest lines, probably some kind of tutorial / lore release, etc. You need to keep the engagement and it won't magically appear just cause the systems are ready. I'm not even mentioning debugging before release.
mmo and sandbox don't quite fit together. You need the options like you said. And we are far from there.
Still waiting to see ANY FPS mission run correctly, and we aren't many on the servers atm... and testing those servers.....
although saying this, ... i wonder if you know the game FoxHole? that idea would be awesome for all out wars that could be active at all times somewhere in the universe. basically, it's a war game but everything is player done and the war keeps going wether u are there or not. Ppl need to resupply the storages, be sure weapons and gear is available to the ones that decide to go on the front lines, etc.
I can easily see something like that that includes pretty much all types of work you can do in the game in the background. Fighters sure, but also supply chain, ressource gathering, etc. in the background, all done by players on both sides
Finding a group bigger than 5 people for anything is a pain in the ass.
If they said 120 pr more then we need at minimum 12 systems to start 10 % is a good start
I love this game but im totally solo. Have social anxiety but want to be apart of something
I backed back in 2013, but properly started playing in 2021. Back then I said 5 years. That's 2026. So legitimately 2 years away. How I feel now, that three years have passed?
"Another five years............."
I am sure we'll get it within a decade.
1.0 has to be not earlier then least 6-12Months after dynamic Server Meshing, cause CIG will need sometime to implement and make it stable..
4.0... or Beta I can see happen much sooner. I can see that CIG wants to push to a next Stage, so money can come in.
SQ42 might also play a strong role..
I have been playing MMO's for the majority of my life, to one degree or another. I don't want a game that I CAN'T play solo. That doesn't mean I don't want to play in groups, but solo play HAS to be well supported. When I played WOW, I leveled mostly solo and I enjoyed casual interactions with other players. Once I hit max level, I started raiding and, obviously, group gameplay had to be a focus. However, then there was the daily quest grind and the grind for materials for upgrades. For the most part, I did all of that by myself. I probably spent just as much time playing solo as I did in raid/dungeon groups. Can you grind dailies with friends, yes. Can you grind materials with friends, also yes. However, some of the time you are chasing the same item and it just takes more time to do the thing you need to do. My point is, if CIG can't make the game in such a way that it is solo 'friendly,' it won't do well. Players will always find something that they prefer to do solo. If my barrier to playing solo, for instance, is that I need someone to swap fuses, that's not a compelling reasons to run with a friend. I want my friends to enhance my gameplay, not be needed to meet a viable level of fun.
They can’t even get in features that have been inbound for years how will they deliver on things that are being announced just now