Standing pilots, combination gas valves, Thermocouples.
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
- We demonstrate different types of standing Pilot gas valves. Heat motor/ time delays and solenoid / immediate open.
We show thermocouple operation and how to read millivolts.
We also show manufactured home valves.
Agreed! You're a great teacher! I figured out the idea of redundancy, from watching, it seems, because the pilot solenoid becomes back up for main gas burner, which is my best way of explaining. it. Thanks again!
Best explanation of my furnace. Thanks! You are a great teacher.
Best explanation ever. Thanks.
The best explanations of the most commonly used gas combustion systems 👍🏻
Congrats. Real life teaching thanks
Best explanation I found😊
Enjoy all your videos, Nice video, very informative. Thank you.
Excelent explanation, thank you very much
Great video, BananaMan!
Thanks! 😊
Very great video ;
You are the best instructor I have ever seen in my life ,
I will be very grateful if some day make video of Career modulating furnace .
I set modulating gas valve (high and low ) according to manual but still customers calls back and I find code 33 (over heat )
Filter is clean:Ac coil is clean .
This career furnace is like nightmare for me;and I am starting to dislike this furnace "
The manual of career infinity does not explain very good.
Please make video and especially those dip switches 🙏🙏
Thanks a lot .
I want to do one for modulating but I don't yet have access to one.
Overheat is usually an airflow issue. Check the static pressure on the air side and you will probably find the static pressure is too high.
I have my opinions on modulating furnaces I will do a video on after I show the operation of one.
@@love2hvac
Thank you very much.
I love youtube. Thanks man.
ALL your vids are simply GREAT.
Thank you!
Great Job Nicely Done 👍🏽⚡️🔥
Very nice thank you professor.
Very well detailed video
Always watch your video they’re nice 👍
Truly appreciate you taking the time to produce these great videos. Keep up the good work! I've a question as well, the spec sheet for my gas valve indicates it operates with 24 volts DC, yet when I measure the "opening" voltage applied from the controller, it's 24 volts AC. Do 24v gas valve's solenoids work with both AC and DC voltage? Will utilizing AC voltage for the valve likely be detrimental in the long term? Thanks
Thanks Patrick
Most of the gas valves today operate on 24V AC.
Some really old package units had some 120 and 240v coils that are not allowed anymore for safety.
Some wall and floor furnaces use a millivolt DV gas valve and use a thermopile to create the voltage from the pilot to operate on.
Some of the valves today have a switch and a mini control board inside. It's possible the board is a rectifier converting AC to DC so it would work with either. Possible, not confirmed.
As for 24v DC I do not know. I can't remember seeing that. I will have to take a look and see what the labels show and get back with you.
Great video. If I were to replace the pilot from the gas valve, with a new pilot, do I use regular pipe joint/fitting compound.
completely understood the thermocoupler function. i am facing a problem where gas donot cut off inspite of thermostat in workung condition.
Really great vid, thanks a lot. However just one question, in the vid you used a lighter to light up the pilot, in the actual furnace what triggers the spark?
These pilots are manual light and they stand or burn constantly. There are kits available to convert a standing pilot to intermittent.
Thanks for the information
Thanks for laying out the working parts of the furnace in plain site, its much easier to see whats going on. I have a hanging garage furnace that dates pre 90's that has had the name of the unit removed before I got it so I'm lost as to know where I can get replacement parts for it. I am in need of a new solenoid as the thermocouple is ok (thanks for your info on how to test). the only number I can see is on the solenoid housing and that is 807-78 the only words on the housing is "reset button" and has an arrow pointing to the red button at bottom of housing. I have been unable to locate any parts that look like what i have. Would you have any idea that would deal in old furnace parts? Thank you.
Great explanation of the thermocouple and the pilot side of the valve but how does the main valve open? Where does the 24 volts come from ? My gas fireplace pilot is lit but the main valve does not open. Why?
There are 2 valves, the pilot holds open one valve, then the second valve is controlled by the 24v of the furnace.
On a gas fireplace there are many different ways. Some use a thermopile instead of a thermocouple to creat aditinal voltage for a switch or thermostat, some use manual valves, some use DC and some use 24v with a controller.
I have not worked on a gas fireplace in about 10 years so I'm not sure all the different methods used today.
Very informative video Ty thank you for the time you spend it. Q: The thermocouple will generate a small amount of voltages so this volt should be AC or DC? And is it contain a coil to pull the valve? Thankfully.🌳🌺
DC
It's DC and there is a coil inside the valve just for this. One of the videos I pull the coil out so you can see the operation. I don't remember which one but it will be under the gas heating playlist.
Best video. My boiler pilot is failed . The solenoid (1:30) is failed. Any one know the parts number of it? Where to buy it? I live in Vancouver,B.C. Canada. Thank you.
You can get a new thermocouple pretty easily
You can't get just the solinoid, you will have to get the entire combination gas valve.
Thank you.@@love2hvac
Hello thanks for the video
I have the same gas valve and I can't adjust the pilot light. I even bought a new gas valve thinking that there was something wrong with mine and the new one is the same can't adjust the pilot up or down I follow the instructions that came with it, any suggestions. Thanks
There is a separate adjustment for the pilot regulator. It has a smaller cap on it and a smaller adjustment.
Google the gas valve model and PDF , you might be able to find something.
Usually it's the pilot orifice that is clogged up. Be careful cleaning it, even a needle can make it too large and too big of a pilot.
Thanks
Very professional voice, well presented. Well spoken, Reach out to manufactures of equipment,, You could do very well monetarily. get an agent or lawyer up front, contingency only ..
I have a 1940-50’s winter air conditioner, which is forced air furnace. It was working last winter. Now it won’t turn on. It has gas chain not combination valve. I can manually turn it on. I took the pilot out to clean. But there is thermopile. There are two gas lines. One to pilot and one to gas control valve. There are two wires for thermopile, but no thermopile left. I checked it at bottom as well. There are 4 wire connectors, one is G, one is no letter, (the remaining thermopile wires are connected to those connectors. The other are white and yellow. G, W and Y connectors has wire. Does the polarity of thermopile matters. I tried a thermopile from water heater. It won’t turn on by itself. If i manually turn it on. It will reignite for couple times. But not all the time. What could be wrong. Thank you
So , I saw your video and watched a few others, if you don't want to respond, I understand, but here's what I have a 1991 circa Reznor that is in a small garage, it has a standing pilot, the unit has developed a high pitched whistle, I believe it's in the combination gas valve, when I turn the main valve toward off to see if the pitch will change or stop, the whistle becomes louder and at a higher pitch, when I open the main all the way back open, the whistle stops for a moment but starts to whistle again. The whistle is at the back, behind where the pilot is , this is the first year that the unit has been used in the last three years, the whistle wasn't there when it was last used, the pilot was on though through those three years, the pilot burns clean and blue, the furnace heats fine, other than the loud whistle which sets off my tinnitus. I haven't been able to find anyone that has an idea. The burners are blue also.
By the way, thank you for the videos, very informative.
Without being there I cannot be 100% certain, it's likely the diaphragm inside the gas valve is damaged. It can be stuck on one side or it can have rip in it that acts like a feed of a musical instrument.
It can be burning blue but still not burning correctly. Rachel Kaiser did a great presentation at the HVAC school symposium this year about that.
My bigger concern is if it's fully shutting off. It can be leaking gas by until it builds up enough for a little back draft. You may not notice it, but it can get worse over time.
You can look for a replacement gas valve. White Rogers makes a universal kit they also have one with electronic ignition or intermiten pilot, but then again it might be time to look at a newer model heater.
For shops I like infrared heaters as they direct the heat in objects and people instead of air.
I'm some cases a big can clog an orifice or the burner tube and also make a similar noise.
What ever you use get a low level CO monitor (not alarm) so you can know what's happening inside.
Good luck!
Found the problem, although the jets were clean at the tips and I ran a pipe cleaner back through them, it hasn't solved the problem, so I held a wide standard/straight screwdriver over one jet out of the three, each jet changed the pitch of the whistle until I got to the last of the three, the whistle stpped, I removed the jets only to find a thin carbon deposit inside the jet, with everything off, I used compressed air through the rail, and chemtool/carburetor cleaner on the jets, I let the jets soak for a few minutes in the cleaner then used the brass pipe cleaner again, put everything together, opened and closed the combination valve and gas supply valve a few times to make sure any blockages might flush with the pressure, then lit the pilot, then turned on the power and waited, ran through the cycle completely, No Whistle :)
Thank you again for your videos and response. Very informative.
My thermocouple keeps the flame lit. But pilot tubes go off after 1-5 minutes after I do the recommended steps to relight it. Any suggestions?
Ty you mentioned 24 volts for combination gas valve. Where's the transformer for that to get that voltage? My understanding on standing pilot was, main gas valve gets power from pilot once it is lit. Wall heater don't have transformer and we have 3 spade on gas valve. 1 is for pilot 2bd is TH/TP. 3rd is for gas valve to open.
In gas furnace the same transformer that powers the 24v system. R- tstat, comes back as W through the safeties and ( and control board on new ones) then to the combination gas valve. There thermocouple uses 30 millivolts only to hold the pilot coil in the valve, separate system.
Wall furnaces are different. Well some have transformers but most do not.
The wall furnaces don't use a thermocouple they use a Thermopile.
The thermopile creates about 650 to 850 millivolts. This is enough to run to a millivolt thermostat, through some normally closed safeties and to energize the main valve on the wall furnace. It also holds open the pilot valve.
Because there is more load and longer wire runs a thermocouple does not work so the thermopile takes over.
You can check the millivolts with out the adapter.Place one lead on aluminum nub. Other on copper tube snd you will read the millivolts when thermocouple is heated.Just disconnect nub from gas valve light pilot hold in and check.
Yes they are great. One of these videos I think I showed it. I can't remember.
I did not know about the adapter. Place. I will check them out.
Is there a quick method to determine if gas valve is defective? How can i test it to find out if it works the way it should?
Thanks Ty
While pressing PILOT, eventually the solenoid keeps the pilot light valve open. So what then does the ON setting do? I'm trying to follow how the ON valve is first but the pilot light valve opens first? Thanks
Internal piping.
The pilot valve solinoid stops or allows gas to flow to any part of the gas valve. Once the pilot valve is open it allows gas to flow to the next chamber. With the knob turned to the on positions it continues to allow the gas to flow to get another chamber where the main solenoid controls the gas flow with a call for heat.
When the knob is turned off, it closes the paths to all the chambers including the pilot valve.
I have ? Sr. Why my gas valve don open when I push the pilot down? Do. No smell gas any idea? Thanks again
It will only open to the pilot tube. Often you will not smell gas be used it's so small.
If it will not light the pilot with the pilot knob used it could be:
A: pilot tube orifice clogged up
B: No gas to the house
C: no gas to the unit (gas shutoff closed)
D: gas pipe rusted or corroded u.
E: inlet screen to the gas valve clogged up
F: gas diaphragm in the gas valve bad
G: pilot chamber corrected inside valve
H: pilot regulator out of adjustment
I: shaft or knob form the inside is broken
J: Pilot tube kinked
K: Pilot tube or conectirs leaking
Is it possible to have a bad thermocouple that can still send 30 milivolts and can’t hold the solenoid ?
Yes, it's good to check under load. I have the starter that slows me to do that.
Now if your getting 30 connected and it's still not opening, then there is a problems
1 with the valve
2 with an external limit
3 wiring connection of the external limit
4 the connection of the thermocouple /valve
Is it normal for the pilot hood to glow red hot? Thanks
No, something is wrong
Can you demo a slow open and regular gas valve on this set up or side by side?
wow!
Hi, i hear a clicking sound from gas valve when thermostat calls for heat. But the pilot is off. Does this clicking sound means that the gas valve is being energized and gas is going to burner even though the pilot is off? Thanks
no the clicking is most likely a solenoid engaging, but gas cannot flow unless the pilot solenoid is also open.
2 solenoids, they both have to be open for gas to flow
Whats the title and author of the book? thanks
I have a Pennco boiler. it doesn't spark to light reding code 15 B
I'm starting to think I just have a dirty pilot because I can't get it to light at all. I sprayed soot remover on the pilot and thermocouple then used a wire brush to clean off the soot. I'll see if that worked. I don't think they make those kinds of pilots anymore.
Have you checked gas valve?
Would gas flow to main burner if 24vac is applied to gas valve with the pilot off? Thanks
No, gas would not flow to the main burner with the pilot off even with 24v applied.
Thank you
When I see these I recommend replacement. I won't touch them had someone lied about why his shop caught on fire....it was one of these old things its like 40 years old most the time. He told me a drunk caught his business on fire. But on further investigation it's because he refuses to replace old furnaces so he can work on them himself. He says new furnaces "have too many electronics" good riddance to this person I did not go back
There are some I will service but its a safety and Liability issue.
Kindly tell me how I would be able to daisy chain 4 pilots so I can build this off grid heater... Thank you very much
The problem would be the orifice size inside the gas valve. It most likely would not allow enough flow.
What type of heater are you trying to build? I can't see needing more than 1 pilot for anything.
@@love2hvac check out this video, would like to build with four pilots and copper heating element pipe ua-cam.com/video/6ZnayOUQN28/v-deo.html
@@love2hvac did you get a chance to check out the video?
I don't see a video link
@@love2hvac ua-cam.com/video/6ZnayOUQN28/v-deo.html
standing pilots are alive & well in water heaters & 'vent-free" space heaters.
Thank you for the comment.
Water heaters are a diffrent and some animal. I will leave potable water to the pipefitters and will make another series for hydronics.
As for ventless heaters, they are an Indoor Air Quality nightmare. An air monitor reports with and without their operation quickly convense customers it's time to upgrade.
@@love2hvac i wish the mfgrs. of "ventless" heaters would make a vented type. i would gladly run b-vent for safetys sake. as american gas valves use a universal thermocouple, the overseas valves use different ones that are next to impossible to obtain.
The amount of gas that will leak on a standing pilot with the proper type of gas supply isn’t that much if you loose the flame. As far as reliability goes, my furnace is this style and i’ve been here since 1987 and i’ve never had to replace the thermocouple, no lie, now how many ceramic igniters do you think you would go thru in that time 8, 10 ? Another plus for a standing pilot system, other than its simplicity, is many homes have their heat in a damp cellar and the continuous pilot keeps the heat exchanger dry and rust free in the off season. Now don’t get me wrong, i’m a big fan of electronics, in fact i’m also an electronics technician.
My concern is the bigger picture of house pressurization and depressurization. If a person first took a class from David Richardson or Jim Davis with National Comfort Institute about Carbon Monoxide and the whole home picture I would be more inclined. I will make some videos this winter about that issue. A natural draft furnace is the most susceptible to the pressure changes. Even a windy day can comply change the air properties and cause carbon monoxide poisoning. So many people get CO o poisoning every year and never even know it. A pilot furnace is simple but the operation in a home becomes very complex. That class will really open your eyes to the bigger picture.
You would not compare the thermocouple to the igniter by the way you would compare it with the flame sensor. The problem is they are inefficient,not very safe.and are no longer being made.The standing pilot type furnace is of the past . Evolve or get left behind.
can i install ekternal elektric igniter modul to light the pilot?
I used a honey well or white rogers brand ignitor but it requires replacing the combination gas valve, the pilot assembly and installing a control board that comes with the kit.
@@love2hvac thanks man
nothing wrong with standing polite other than the waste in the summer( which i just turn off the gas to the furnace in summer)
they are perfectly safe
simply change out exhausted worn components
3 part problem.
1 they have not made a standing pilot furnace in 29 years. The heat exchanger, the main part of that unit is aged, and worn. Your talking a lot of expansion and contraction, a lot of rust and a risk of cracks.
2 natural draft. Because they are natural draft and rely on natruak convection, there is a much greater risk of back crafting CO into the home. This is magnified with better windows, roofing, insulation siding and all the modern ways people seal a home. Just a change in the wind, a bathroom fan, kitchen exhaust or clothes dryer will put the house in negative pressure and the CO will be pulled into the home.
3 they had limited safety featured. I have rewired many of them over the years. The flame back crafts and melts all the comments. There was nothing to ensure proper draft, or flame roll out.
I like the old trucks with manual windows, manual locks, manual transmission, solid front axle and built solid.
However those trucks I live have not been made is some time and age. For the general population they are not as fuel efficient, comfortable or as safe.
The air bag, the anti lock breaks, the frame that's made to buckle selling the engine below the driver, the dash designed to not take off the knee caps are big safety improvements for the majority. The lighter weight, arrow dynamics, and fuel injection systems make them more fuel efficient. All of these things take priority over the few like me that appreciated the old system.
i have this one chill on the negativity bro
USE A REAL MANS METER DUDE
I have and use Fluke, Fieldpiece, UEI, Klein, Simpson and others. I'm not brand loyal.
I only accept advice from people who yell it at me with all caps