I can't help but think Lee needed some more screentime in the middle of the story showing the qualities that Haytham describes. Haytham talks about how fit Charles is as a successor but we only see a middle-aged man that visibly hasn't slept in years bullying children and running from Connor. About the only good scene from him post-timeskip is his death scene, where he just sits with Connor, has a drink and accepts his fate. The middle of the story should have shown the competent and trustworthy right-hand Haytham describes (and who was present in the opening chapters) only for his rage and fear to get the better of him in the finale when Connor kills off his men and leads him to make terrible decisions.
Yeah, about that, the real life Charles Lee was an idiot, very likely sold Washington out, and was caught at a tavern by the British (the first time) mid retreat, a retreat he caused by refusing to commit his forces.
The American Rite was almost destroyed because of Charles' racism and cowardice. If Connor didn't get him, Shay would've strung him up when he returned from his travels.
That's interesting to think about, and I truly hope we see what became of Shay later down the line. Part of me thinks he'd meet Connor and just go weapons down to talk. Ask about Achilles and Haytham's deaths, about the revolution, just talk man-to-man. Probably long after being retired as a Templar, of course.
@@Gioviiiii934 Shay didn't even enter in his 30s in the end of AC Rogue (I mean the arctic mission where Achilles was permanently injured), and he was 50 when Haytham died. He could've possibly been the Templar Grand Master if he was in America
@@alduintheanti-dragonborn Yeah, that's why I said if he was in America. He killed Charles Dorian and retrieved the box in 1776, 5 years before Haytham's death. So the timeline matches for Shay to be the American Templar Grand Master, but if he wasn't in America which seems to be the case then the only option was Lee.
WHERE. IS. CHARLES. LEE. I’m half Native American Cherokee and have always loved this game more than most.. I also lost my father to cancer at about the same age Connor lost his mother so I really felt I was playing an alternate version of my life growing up.
The way Charles is framed in every scene he shares with Connor is great. Consistently above Connor but that’s only because Connor is outnumbered, injured, or disadvantaged in some way. At the end of the game they’re equal sitting in the bar when Connor kills him
And to add to that, I love how no words are exchanged between them at that bar. They both know what’s about to happen. And Charles accepts it. And Connor indulges him in one last drink together. And the fact we don’t get the assassin’s closure thing we normally get, it kinda makes it more impactful when we don’t get it for him. Because Connor’s last kill has nothing to do with any creed. Maybe there is a sense of justice for what happened throughout the story. But this last kill was purely for him.
Yeah, the likes of Jacques de Molay and even Rodrigo Borgia would be very disappointed indeed to say the least. Charles Lee was just a pathetic man who died pathetically.
@@Nel_Annette Goddamn Professor Ratigan from disney's The Great Mouse Detective is a far more compelling villain then Starrick. Why wasn't his overall plan instead of simply just to get another Piece of Eden and strengthen his hold in London. It turns out Starrick leads a rogue but powerful element of Templars, and the Templar order approach the Assassins to make an impromptu alliance with them and reveal Starricks plan. He wish to usurp the Royal family and become King. An use the near limitless power and influence of the British Empire and wipe out the Assassins and Templars all over the world and establish his own regime, on the global scale. An he is willing to do what ever it takes to get what he wants.
Charles Lee is a highlight in AC3 but I think it's because the actor who played him gave him so much charisma. Normally I wouldn't write this much but the real Charles Lee is actually one of my favourite historical figures ever. Sorry for the wall of text but gotta give the real guy his respects. He was a really brilliant and unusual person who led an extraordinary life. His life was like one adventure after another. It is said he was the first ever to suggest in public assembly that the American Colonies should rebel against England. He was a British but with a true American soul... there's a part in AC3 when he talks to Haytham how he admires the people's hardworking and pioneering spirit and that was a nod to how the real Charles Lee regarded the colonists. Despite his rich upbringing he was not a snob, he was always surrounded by his dogs and didn't act like a toff unlike most his peers in high society. He was kind to his servants and staff and respected the Native Americans. That scene in which he bullies Connor would have never happened for real, as the real Charles Lee was married to a Native American daughter of a Mohawk chief, and he lived among this tribe for a while. He spoke fluent Iroquois. His Native American name was "Boiling Water". Because of his hot temper, lol. He was also extremely well read and scholarly, a true classicist and in AC3 there's even a funny scene in which he corrects someone (Hickey?) about Greek mythology if I remember well. Charles Lee was fluent in 5 languages including ancient Greek and Latin, he communicated with the King of Poland in French, he survived a deadly earthquake in Turkey (like Shay did in Rogue :D but for real!) and then he survived a deadly blizzard in the Serbian Alps. He fought in the anglo-portuguese alliance that repelled the Spanish when they invaded Portugal. He was a soldier of fortune who fought all over Europe and even in Russia. He was regarded by Washington as one of the most brilliant generals at his disposal, and his famous retreat at Monmouth is often said to have saved the American Revolution. But he was also the victim of a kangaroo court-martial because the Congress chose to favour Washington over Lee. And that cemented his hatred for Washington, who reportedly had instructed Charles Lee's commanders to disband and force that retreat, to sabotage Lee's command. AC3 also shows that in the Philadelphia scene, where he scoffs at Washington's speech. The only reason why the Congress didn't appoint Charles Lee as supreme commander of the Continental Army was because Washington was born in the American colonies and Lee, being British, agreed it would he more appropriate. The worst controversy of his life is of course his "betrayal" of the American Revolution, because while he was in British captivity and following a series of defeats by Washington, he thought Washington was only going to lead the Americans to pointless death so he passed information to the British to bring the war to an end. But then there was a prisoner exchange and he was reinstated in the Continental Army and no one found out. His "betrayal" was only discovered long after his death, so now he is not very well regarded. Not unlike Benedict Arnold. But he acted according to his conscience and his appreciation for the people. So it was very uncool to have him start the Boston massacre in AC3 when the real one would have been horrified by that. Anyway, the character was weak in AC3 but the real Charles Lee was a great guy. PS: did Lee ever find out Connor was Haytham's son? He said "you look familiar" but whether he ever figured it out I have no idea.
Wow thank you, I never knew that much about the real Charles Lee, that’s absolutely fascinating. As for your question in the AC Forsaken Novel, Haytham tells Charles that Connor is his son at Fort George just before Haytham dies himself. It was a great scene in the book that I wish would have been in the game. But I find myself saying that about a lot of things in the Forsaken novel. It’s an absolutely brilliant read that enriches and fills in so many gaps of AC3s narrative. I highly recommend it if you haven’t read it. Have a great day!
@@masterassassin791 thanks! I always wanted to know, that makes me appreciate the last scene between Connor and CL a lot more. Everyone recommends me Forsaken, it's definitely at the top of my bucket list!
Shay hated needless killings. So if he found out how much of a monster Charles was, he’d show no mercy. And I mean it. He’d get the Chevelier treatment
To be fair, Charles had an unfair advantage at the start of that encounter with his pistol whereas Connor is unarmed and probably quite tired from beating up so many prisoners to get thrown into the pit on top of already getting hit in the head multiple times prior to this encounter And Charles was quite fortunate to be standing next to the door frame which was helpful to him when he pinned Connor to it All in all, Charles had numerous advantages that wouldn’t carry over to other situations outside of very specific circumstances like the prison encounter
Because he was too emotional and wanted friends. He did notice Lee was 2 faced at the docks when they first met but ignored it cuz Lee was kissing his ass.
I'm certain he knows it's bullshit by that point - the Templars are done in the colonies and Haytham knows it. The only reason Haytham died on that fort is he because he's a coward who doesn't want to see his two kids fight to the death
I think that this character was just made to be a villain. For example, Haytham has got his reasons, where as Charles just doesn’t stop talking about the order
Charles Lee was one of the few villains that didn't feel like a villain. He was constantly kissing Haytham's ass and was never a true threat. Only once he was alone and realized he wasn't powerful, he showed Connor the respect he deserved. He knew he was cooked
I Find an interesting how assassin's Creed went into the more traditional view of Charles Lee as the big bad guy to Washington comparison now there's more reassessment of his character the show that he's a more complicated figure both good and bad.
The Assassin's Creed Forsaken novel fleshes out and contextualises Charles Lee far better than the game does, at least in my opinion, including hos bigotry and racism with characters like Zio
I’m new and I actually really like this series! I would love to see one about your thoughts on a Templar that actually had good morals and wasn’t bad at all.
@@koyrion I hate Micah but he wasn't coward, He was just selfish and didn't really care about anyone but himself. If he was a coward, He wouldn't of got himself into gun fights or went on a shoot out in strawberry over his guns.
Imagine dying just to get dissed by some guy on the internet centuries later. Nah but honestly, his character arc reminds me a lot of Teddy from the show Snowfall.
Interesting point about Charles Lee being indirectly responsible for the destruction of the Templar Order in the Colonies that Shay and Haytham had established. Though Shay sparing Achilles did lead to Connor having an assassin mentor.
Yeah the only way Achilles is still live because somebody have to warn the assassin's not to steal a artifact that cause earthquake's so half it is Shay fault but Lee is the main problem who attacked connor in a young age
What I've noticed about Charles Lee from the first and last appearances in the game was his hair. The first time meeting him with Haytham, his hair was neatly in a ponytail, and every strand of hair was in place, but as he got older and menacing and cruel his hair was dishevelled no strand of hair was in place of the ponytail and yes he had the ponytail till death look at the difference between Haythams hair and Lee's hair, Haytham had control of the Templar order and his hair was neat, Charles had no control of the Templar order once he took over from Haytham and his hair was dishevelled and messy
Tbh, the only Templar who's as cowardly as Charles Lee would be Cesare who expresses so much bravado but shits himself the second he sees Ezio. Not to mention, in his time as Grand Master (which he won ala patricide), he was in prison for much of his rule, and losing battles before running the Italian Rite into the ground and being defenestrated.
i feel like Charles became this way through excess stress, lack of recognition/appreciation (at least in his eyes) compounded by a probable lacking childhood. Seeing as he grew up wealthy the childhood part would make sense, not getting the attention and everything as a child. Lack of appreciation or recognition or both can lead to insecurity in the worth of your actions which in his case made him a very angry person. And the stress just compounds it all even more. Leading him to become a pathetic man that cannot control his emotions in the unhealthiest of ways. I do love his character design in this game tho he gives me a Revolutionary War Tom Sellick vibe, but then the personally is like a deranged orc in Shadow of War with a title like Abandoned or something
Charles Lee: Before you die, you’ll will watch as burn your precious homestead, roast the severed heads of your founding fathers, and kill your merry band of assassins. And then when you’ve watched all your life’s work destroyed, then and only then will I allow you to die!! Conner: No
and people say Rogue made the assassins weirdly evil when it is nothing compared to the diabolical cartoon villains that get put in the templar order, but they also have haytham here as well
Something else happens between seeing Charles early on, and then later when bullying Connor - from a narrative standpoint there's a couple of perspective shifts. Before, we as the player saw Charles from Haytham's perspective, and he sees him as someone with qualities beneficial to society as well as Templars. Later, we as the player see Charles from Connor's perspective with qualities that make him a menace to society. Not only do we see Charles as Connor sees him, we also see Charles as he actually was all along.
I will never understand why Haytham decided that Lee was a good choice for a leader of an entire Rite of Templars? Hell, Shay would make much more sense. Also, I like how you can see when Lee threatens Connor, he is pretty much only doing it to seem in control, so when Connor tells him ''you can try'' his lips show you how terrified he is of him, even when Lee is holding him on his knees at gunpoint. But to be fair to Lee, there wasn't much of a Templar Rite left by the time he became Grand Master.
I like to believe Lee was always like that. The reason for the apparent change in personality is because you’re changing perspectives from Haytham to Connor, from ally to enemy.
I saw the face and before I remembered anything a about the character or the game he's in i felt a deep hatred.... What hurts most, is that he could have been a good man.
We human beings often won't remember good things in life but Traumas that we experienced even years ago, we usually will have those in mind for a long time.
So I'm definitely an Assassin, and hope to become a master assassin too. But I low-key feel like my late grandfather was also a Templar Grand Master 😮..🙈🙈🙈🤣
Washington: Everyone attack! Lee: Retreat! Washington: Attack! Lee: Retreat! Washington: What are you doing Lee? Get back on your feet! Lee: There's so many of them! Washington: I'm sorry is this not your speed?
The thing about the Templars is they overall of what they stand for (told by Haytham) isn't that all bad but it's the individual members themselves that screw the order over. However as an assassin i have a duty to the people.
I think it's important to mention here the saying "power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely". in Charles Lee's case, he had had a little power prior to meeting Haytham when he was in the military but after being inducted into the Templars and gaining more power, it changed him for the worst. in his eyes, the ends justified the means and if that meant killing men, women, and children, he would do it. while Haytham wasn't the best person in the world, he chose to let others live like with Ziio and Connor meaning he had some morals. not much but enough to stay his hand at times. power is a dangerous thing when lesser men hold it and in this case, it was the thing that led to Lee's death
A lot of the series suffers from reactionary hate whenever a game is released. A lot of people were dead set on hating this game off the bat simply due to the fact it was bringing a lot of change to the series. People don’t like change and the series went from the joke cracking romantic Ezio to Connor who’s very stoic. Black flag also received a lot of hate during its release time, tons of people were waving their arms in the air about it not being a “real assassins creed game” and now it’s considered one of the best games in the franchise. Ironically the series also suffers from nostalgic overrating. Imo is not too dissimilar to what we see today with the never ending hate trains for the rpg trilogy.
I mean if you think about the colony templars were the most unskilled group of any Templer group. None of them were any good at fighting or assassinating people except for Haythan, If anything it wasn't for shay the assassins would of been the ones who took over the colonies much sooner without Conor. The fact that Conor was able to take out all the colony leaders by himself proves it. The only time Conor ever really used his assassin friends was when he was being hanged. Most of them didn't even try to fight him. They just ran away.
The way Charles threatened Connor’s happiness and friends after Haytham’s death, that whole monologue made me realize that he was in love with Haytham (in that weird heteronormative Christian way). Also the fact that he lost in the running against Washington for the position of commander-in-chief solely because of his greed and hubris is just another tally mark for the “Charles Lee is a fucking loser” score board
I don’t think Charles actually ever changed, I think it’s just the different perspective from two completely different people, Lee may have become more confident or skilled, but still twisted
I love Charles Lee's transition from a lapdog to a merciless killer.
your regular viewer here the hidden one
Same bro
The Meat riding is crazy on haytham
Same I like the fact he goes a bit crazy as he sees all his friends die
Ayyy hidden one collab with master assasins
I can't help but think Lee needed some more screentime in the middle of the story showing the qualities that Haytham describes. Haytham talks about how fit Charles is as a successor but we only see a middle-aged man that visibly hasn't slept in years bullying children and running from Connor. About the only good scene from him post-timeskip is his death scene, where he just sits with Connor, has a drink and accepts his fate. The middle of the story should have shown the competent and trustworthy right-hand Haytham describes (and who was present in the opening chapters) only for his rage and fear to get the better of him in the finale when Connor kills off his men and leads him to make terrible decisions.
Yeah, about that, the real life Charles Lee was an idiot, very likely sold Washington out, and was caught at a tavern by the British (the first time) mid retreat, a retreat he caused by refusing to commit his forces.
@RobertEdwinHouse9 Still better than Unity, Syndicate and all the recent nonsenses rpg we got.
As a wise person once said, "GIVE ME LEE!"
or maybe not just once
Truly inspiring words 😢
The American Rite was almost destroyed because of Charles' racism and cowardice. If Connor didn't get him, Shay would've strung him up when he returned from his travels.
That's interesting to think about, and I truly hope we see what became of Shay later down the line. Part of me thinks he'd meet Connor and just go weapons down to talk. Ask about Achilles and Haytham's deaths, about the revolution, just talk man-to-man. Probably long after being retired as a Templar, of course.
@@IndyMiraagaYeah, despite how ruthless Shay was later in life, I could see him and Connor adopting an uneasy truce
No he wouldn’t
@@IndyMiraagaDidn't Rogue end with an old Shay killing Arno's dad?
@@DylanHuttoyes
"The only person in line for the promotion to grandmaster is Charles-"
*cough*Shay Cormac*cough*
Possibly dead
@@Gioviiiii934 No. Shay Cormac lived on to have templar grandkids. By the end of AC3 he is very much alive.
@@Gioviiiii934 Shay didn't even enter in his 30s in the end of AC Rogue (I mean the arctic mission where Achilles was permanently injured), and he was 50 when Haytham died. He could've possibly been the Templar Grand Master if he was in America
Pretty sure Shay is still busy with that life long mission Haytham gave him, so he's probably not easily reachable hopping around the world and all.
@@alduintheanti-dragonborn Yeah, that's why I said if he was in America. He killed Charles Dorian and retrieved the box in 1776, 5 years before Haytham's death. So the timeline matches for Shay to be the American Templar Grand Master, but if he wasn't in America which seems to be the case then the only option was Lee.
Connor: "GIVE ME LEE"
Connor and master assassin be like give meee leeeeeee
WHERE IS CHARLES LEE?
WHERE ARE YOU, CHARLES?
We all know how it goes...
"GIVE ME LEE"
Give me LEE!!!!!😩
I knew the give me Lee joke was going to be involved so I decided to join on it
WHERE. IS. CHARLES. LEE.
I’m half Native American Cherokee and have always loved this game more than most.. I also lost my father to cancer at about the same age Connor lost his mother so I really felt I was playing an alternate version of my life growing up.
Did you also destroy a whole secret order of control freaks looking to take over the world like Connor?
@@lilkitkittu2709 that's deep
I'm the great grandson of a cherokee woman. Nice to meet a fellow native.
My sincere condolences for your father.
@@CloudyWolf713 i appreciate it. It’s been a long time now so I’m doing fine don’t worry. 🫡
Crawford Starrick: Hold my tea
At least he was a grandmaster for more then year 😂😂😂
The way Charles is framed in every scene he shares with Connor is great. Consistently above Connor but that’s only because Connor is outnumbered, injured, or disadvantaged in some way. At the end of the game they’re equal sitting in the bar when Connor kills him
And to add to that, I love how no words are exchanged between them at that bar. They both know what’s about to happen. And Charles accepts it. And Connor indulges him in one last drink together. And the fact we don’t get the assassin’s closure thing we normally get, it kinda makes it more impactful when we don’t get it for him. Because Connor’s last kill has nothing to do with any creed. Maybe there is a sense of justice for what happened throughout the story. But this last kill was purely for him.
Yeah, the likes of Jacques de Molay and even Rodrigo Borgia would be very disappointed indeed to say the least. Charles Lee was just a pathetic man who died pathetically.
When he had a last drink wich Connor was a nice way to say "okay you got me"
The most disappointed would probably be Shay, since he was even still alive
Charles Lee was at least memorable. Every time someone mentions Starrick my brain lags trying to remember why he's significant to the AC universe.
Starrick was a freaking cartoon villain. Could have done so much more with a villain in Victorian London.
@@Nel_Annette Goddamn Professor Ratigan from disney's The Great Mouse Detective is a far more compelling villain then Starrick.
Why wasn't his overall plan instead of simply just to get another Piece of Eden and strengthen his hold in London. It turns out Starrick leads a rogue but powerful element of Templars, and the Templar order approach the Assassins to make an impromptu alliance with them and reveal Starricks plan.
He wish to usurp the Royal family and become King. An use the near limitless power and influence of the British Empire and wipe out the Assassins and Templars all over the world and establish his own regime, on the global scale. An he is willing to do what ever it takes to get what he wants.
I was actually trying to remember who Starrick was until I saw the first answer to this comment 🤣
Charles Lee is a highlight in AC3 but I think it's because the actor who played him gave him so much charisma.
Normally I wouldn't write this much but the real Charles Lee is actually one of my favourite historical figures ever. Sorry for the wall of text but gotta give the real guy his respects.
He was a really brilliant and unusual person who led an extraordinary life. His life was like one adventure after another.
It is said he was the first ever to suggest in public assembly that the American Colonies should rebel against England. He was a British but with a true American soul... there's a part in AC3 when he talks to Haytham how he admires the people's hardworking and pioneering spirit and that was a nod to how the real Charles Lee regarded the colonists.
Despite his rich upbringing he was not a snob, he was always surrounded by his dogs and didn't act like a toff unlike most his peers in high society. He was kind to his servants and staff and respected the Native Americans.
That scene in which he bullies Connor would have never happened for real, as the real Charles Lee was married to a Native American daughter of a Mohawk chief, and he lived among this tribe for a while. He spoke fluent Iroquois. His Native American name was "Boiling Water". Because of his hot temper, lol.
He was also extremely well read and scholarly, a true classicist and in AC3 there's even a funny scene in which he corrects someone (Hickey?) about Greek mythology if I remember well.
Charles Lee was fluent in 5 languages including ancient Greek and Latin, he communicated with the King of Poland in French, he survived a deadly earthquake in Turkey (like Shay did in Rogue :D but for real!) and then he survived a deadly blizzard in the Serbian Alps. He fought in the anglo-portuguese alliance that repelled the Spanish when they invaded Portugal. He was a soldier of fortune who fought all over Europe and even in Russia.
He was regarded by Washington as one of the most brilliant generals at his disposal, and his famous retreat at Monmouth is often said to have saved the American Revolution. But he was also the victim of a kangaroo court-martial because the Congress chose to favour Washington over Lee. And that cemented his hatred for Washington, who reportedly had instructed Charles Lee's commanders to disband and force that retreat, to sabotage Lee's command.
AC3 also shows that in the Philadelphia scene, where he scoffs at Washington's speech.
The only reason why the Congress didn't appoint Charles Lee as supreme commander of the Continental Army was because Washington was born in the American colonies and Lee, being British, agreed it would he more appropriate.
The worst controversy of his life is of course his "betrayal" of the American Revolution, because while he was in British captivity and following a series of defeats by Washington, he thought Washington was only going to lead the Americans to pointless death so he passed information to the British to bring the war to an end.
But then there was a prisoner exchange and he was reinstated in the Continental Army and no one found out.
His "betrayal" was only discovered long after his death, so now he is not very well regarded. Not unlike Benedict Arnold. But he acted according to his conscience and his appreciation for the people. So it was very uncool to have him start the Boston massacre in AC3 when the real one would have been horrified by that.
Anyway, the character was weak in AC3 but the real Charles Lee was a great guy.
PS: did Lee ever find out Connor was Haytham's son?
He said "you look familiar" but whether he ever figured it out I have no idea.
His character was much more fleshed out in the book, showing conversations between him and Haytham we never see in the game.
Wow thank you, I never knew that much about the real Charles Lee, that’s absolutely fascinating. As for your question in the AC Forsaken Novel, Haytham tells Charles that Connor is his son at Fort George just before Haytham dies himself. It was a great scene in the book that I wish would have been in the game. But I find myself saying that about a lot of things in the Forsaken novel. It’s an absolutely brilliant read that enriches and fills in so many gaps of AC3s narrative. I highly recommend it if you haven’t read it. Have a great day!
@@masterassassin791 thanks! I always wanted to know, that makes me appreciate the last scene between Connor and CL a lot more. Everyone recommends me Forsaken, it's definitely at the top of my bucket list!
Source?
From one Charles Lee enthusiast to another, a genuine thank you for this beautifully long comment, you said everything I would've said myself 🤝🏻
Shay hated needless killings. So if he found out how much of a monster Charles was, he’d show no mercy. And I mean it. He’d get the Chevelier treatment
Eh debatable. Haytham would’ve never allowed it.
@@matthewriley7826Haytham was dead when Shay had accomplished his mission in France.
Shay and Basim are my favorite anti heroes
Running away from Connor is a great idea if you ask me
0:16 Why did he even run if he could do this
To be fair, Charles had an unfair advantage at the start of that encounter with his pistol whereas Connor is unarmed and probably quite tired from beating up so many prisoners to get thrown into the pit on top of already getting hit in the head multiple times prior to this encounter
And Charles was quite fortunate to be standing next to the door frame which was helpful to him when he pinned Connor to it
All in all, Charles had numerous advantages that wouldn’t carry over to other situations outside of very specific circumstances like the prison encounter
It’s funny when you look at Charles Lee’s eyes they light up making him look like some scary, nocturnal predator when in reality he’s the prey.
Lee running from Connor has the same feeling as a hapless hiker running from the Cocaine Bear
Forsaken also showed that Hayham knew about Lee’s bigotry towards the native Americans. Clearly not the full extent of it.
Genuinely, I never understood why Haytham thought Lee was so important, like when Haytham says he lee will be the key to the new world or something?
Because he was too emotional and wanted friends. He did notice Lee was 2 faced at the docks when they first met but ignored it cuz Lee was kissing his ass.
I'm certain he knows it's bullshit by that point - the Templars are done in the colonies and Haytham knows it. The only reason Haytham died on that fort is he because he's a coward who doesn't want to see his two kids fight to the death
I think that this character was just made to be a villain. For example, Haytham has got his reasons, where as Charles just doesn’t stop talking about the order
1:48 definitely the mustache lol because if you shave it then that's a whole new character lol
Charles Lee was one of the few villains that didn't feel like a villain. He was constantly kissing Haytham's ass and was never a true threat. Only once he was alone and realized he wasn't powerful, he showed Connor the respect he deserved. He knew he was cooked
I Find an interesting how assassin's Creed went into the more traditional view of Charles Lee as the big bad guy to Washington comparison now there's more reassessment of his character the show that he's a more complicated figure both good and bad.
Wow. He actually didn't do a give me Lee joke after the start.
Nooooooo
Being much younger when i played AC III I didnt pick up the nuances in Charles's character like you did. Good video!
6:03 not only that, but when he rolled his eyes it made lee even more pathetic
Shay Cormac would most likely kill Charles and I think Haythem wouldn't stop him despite devoting to his friends, 'friends' being the key word.
The Assassin's Creed Forsaken novel fleshes out and contextualises Charles Lee far better than the game does, at least in my opinion, including hos bigotry and racism with characters like Zio
I’m new and I actually really like this series!
I would love to see one about your thoughts on a Templar that actually had good morals and wasn’t bad at all.
Charles Lee reminds me of Micah Bell from RDR2
Micah at least was able to handle things by himself, Charles always needed to cover behind people.
Both cowards and were lapdogs to Dutch/Haytham
@@koyrion I hate Micah but he wasn't coward, He was just selfish and didn't really care about anyone but himself.
If he was a coward, He wouldn't of got himself into gun fights or went on a shoot out in strawberry over his guns.
Bro he was acting so nice and loyal to haytham and when we play as Connor bro is a absolute Dhead
(BTW THE MEAT RIDING IS CRAZY)
What a title 😂
It makes sense 😂😂
Imagine dying just to get dissed by some guy on the internet centuries later.
Nah but honestly, his character arc reminds me a lot of Teddy from the show Snowfall.
Imagin if Haytham was in the aria wend Charls was buling Conor.
I’d love to see more analyses on other Templar masters/members!
Interesting point about Charles Lee being indirectly responsible for the destruction of the Templar Order in the Colonies that Shay and Haytham had established. Though Shay sparing Achilles did lead to Connor having an assassin mentor.
Yeah the only way Achilles is still live because somebody have to warn the assassin's not to steal a artifact that cause earthquake's so half it is Shay fault but Lee is the main problem who attacked connor in a young age
I’m glad Connor ended him
What I've noticed about Charles Lee from the first and last appearances in the game was his hair. The first time meeting him with Haytham, his hair was neatly in a ponytail, and every strand of hair was in place, but as he got older and menacing and cruel his hair was dishevelled no strand of hair was in place of the ponytail and yes he had the ponytail till death look at the difference between Haythams hair and Lee's hair, Haytham had control of the Templar order and his hair was neat, Charles had no control of the Templar order once he took over from Haytham and his hair was dishevelled and messy
I wish Conor didn't kil Haytham.
Tbh, the only Templar who's as cowardly as Charles Lee would be Cesare who expresses so much bravado but shits himself the second he sees Ezio. Not to mention, in his time as Grand Master (which he won ala patricide), he was in prison for much of his rule, and losing battles before running the Italian Rite into the ground and being defenestrated.
Charles Lee is haytham’s d1 glazer bro 💀💀💀
Mace Windu: “Charles Lee will runaway like he aways does he’s coward”
Dude really got te boys to jump what? A seven year old?
i feel like Charles became this way through excess stress, lack of recognition/appreciation (at least in his eyes) compounded by a probable lacking childhood. Seeing as he grew up wealthy the childhood part would make sense, not getting the attention and everything as a child. Lack of appreciation or recognition or both can lead to insecurity in the worth of your actions which in his case made him a very angry person. And the stress just compounds it all even more. Leading him to become a pathetic man that cannot control his emotions in the unhealthiest of ways. I do love his character design in this game tho he gives me a Revolutionary War Tom Sellick vibe, but then the personally is like a deranged orc in Shadow of War with a title like Abandoned or something
Charles Lee makes us hate the templars. But maybe that's supposed to happen?
GIVE ME LEE
Charles Lee: Before you die, you’ll will watch as burn your precious homestead, roast the severed heads of your founding fathers, and kill your merry band of assassins. And then when you’ve watched all your life’s work destroyed, then and only then will I allow you to die!!
Conner: No
Most of the times i watch your videos i enjoy them
I juat want people to remember that charles lee choked young connor to learn where the village is even though you could see the village from that spot
I like how he gets a little "I like your cut G." slap before pathetically dying 😂
Imagine Haytham seeing that Charles chokes Connor and also that Connor is his son
and people say Rogue made the assassins weirdly evil when it is nothing compared to the diabolical cartoon villains that get put in the templar order, but they also have haytham here as well
G.M.L.
Grand
Master
Lee
GIVE
ME
LEE
Something else happens between seeing Charles early on, and then later when bullying Connor - from a narrative standpoint there's a couple of perspective shifts. Before, we as the player saw Charles from Haytham's perspective, and he sees him as someone with qualities beneficial to society as well as Templars. Later, we as the player see Charles from Connor's perspective with qualities that make him a menace to society. Not only do we see Charles as Connor sees him, we also see Charles as he actually was all along.
REALLY thought this video was gonna be about Crawford Starrick. But Lee also makes a lot of sense. (More sense even)
I will never understand why Haytham decided that Lee was a good choice for a leader of an entire Rite of Templars? Hell, Shay would make much more sense.
Also, I like how you can see when Lee threatens Connor, he is pretty much only doing it to seem in control, so when Connor tells him ''you can try'' his lips show you how terrified he is of him, even when Lee is holding him on his knees at gunpoint.
But to be fair to Lee, there wasn't much of a Templar Rite left by the time he became Grand Master.
Haytham has a blind spot to sycophants Charles Lee was always supportive and ass kissing to Haytham which immediately gained Haytham's favor
He's good antagonist but prince Ahmet is better antagonist.
Lin-Manuel: Yeah, he’s not the choice I woulda gone with…
So it turns out Charles Lee is from the same area as me in the UK hahahahaha
I like to believe Lee was always like that. The reason for the apparent change in personality is because you’re changing perspectives from Haytham to Connor, from ally to enemy.
Love your video and keep up the great work you are awesome
"I demand that you hand over the individual called Charles Lee!"
I saw the face and before I remembered anything a about the character or the game he's in i felt a deep hatred....
What hurts most, is that he could have been a good man.
Assassins creed really doesn't know how human aging works...
Charles really showed us rhe difference between a templar you can respect ( Haytham) and trash
Connor has a really good memory. I don't really remember much when I was 4 years old. 6:20 I'm a big baby!
We human beings often won't remember good things in life but Traumas that we experienced even years ago, we usually will have those in mind for a long time.
6:58 It hilarious how Charles reacts to seeing Connor and yep I will always remember the lesson today even though I am not a bully
He was the sycophantic second-in-command. He was never truly the Grand Master, because everyone knew he was not worthy of any real control.
So I'm definitely an Assassin, and hope to become a master assassin too. But I low-key feel like my late grandfather was also a Templar Grand Master 😮..🙈🙈🙈🤣
Real life Charles Lee was kind of a fuck up and an asshole so it makes sense why they made him like that💀
Wonder if Oda will be a Templar leader, or just a college of theme.
i only have one thing to add to your video
GIVE ME LEE!
Washington: Everyone attack!
Lee: Retreat!
Washington: Attack!
Lee: Retreat!
Washington: What are you doing Lee? Get back on your feet!
Lee: There's so many of them!
Washington: I'm sorry is this not your speed?
4:10 At least Haytham wasn't there because he was with shay
“I’M A GENERAL! WHEEEEEEE!!!”
The thing about the Templars is they overall of what they stand for (told by Haytham) isn't that all bad but it's the individual members themselves that screw the order over. However as an assassin i have a duty to the people.
Bro why did you change the profile pic
I cant recognize your videos anymore😭
I think it's important to mention here the saying "power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely". in Charles Lee's case, he had had a little power prior to meeting Haytham when he was in the military but after being inducted into the Templars and gaining more power, it changed him for the worst. in his eyes, the ends justified the means and if that meant killing men, women, and children, he would do it. while Haytham wasn't the best person in the world, he chose to let others live like with Ziio and Connor meaning he had some morals. not much but enough to stay his hand at times. power is a dangerous thing when lesser men hold it and in this case, it was the thing that led to Lee's death
This absolute slander was brought to you by the assassin brotherhood.
Ac 3 isn't as bad as people say. I genuinely like connor and how it all plays it out decently
A lot of the series suffers from reactionary hate whenever a game is released. A lot of people were dead set on hating this game off the bat simply due to the fact it was bringing a lot of change to the series. People don’t like change and the series went from the joke cracking romantic Ezio to Connor who’s very stoic.
Black flag also received a lot of hate during its release time, tons of people were waving their arms in the air about it not being a “real assassins creed game” and now it’s considered one of the best games in the franchise. Ironically the series also suffers from nostalgic overrating.
Imo is not too dissimilar to what we see today with the never ending hate trains for the rpg trilogy.
Charles chase theme being awesome is the only good thing about him.
Connor: “LEE!!!”
Charles Lee: “CONNOR!!!”
KRABS!!
@@Ash-Winchester PLANKTON !!!!!!!
@@ilikenaps871 KRABS !!!!!!!!!
@@Ash-Winchester SpongeBob 😃
@@ilikenaps871 😆
I mean if you think about the colony templars were the most unskilled group of any Templer group. None of them were any good at fighting or assassinating people except for Haythan, If anything it wasn't for shay the assassins would of been the ones who took over the colonies much sooner without Conor.
The fact that Conor was able to take out all the colony leaders by himself proves it.
The only time Conor ever really used his assassin friends was when he was being hanged.
Most of them didn't even try to fight him. They just ran away.
Was he actually a grandmaster? Or just a temporary leader until en hill and sent someone else.
He was grand Master because he was the only one left
How dare you not put give me lee atleast ten times
And I suppose they kept one thing of the real Charles Lee.
His character definitely switched up soooo much ahahh it’s funny 7/28/24
i had no idea connor was 4 there... He looks no younger than 10. They really messed up his design of that age.
Give me Lee
The way Charles threatened Connor’s happiness and friends after Haytham’s death, that whole monologue made me realize that he was in love with Haytham (in that weird heteronormative Christian way). Also the fact that he lost in the running against Washington for the position of commander-in-chief solely because of his greed and hubris is just another tally mark for the “Charles Lee is a fucking loser” score board
I really like Charles, and the templar order as well
True he did go out in a pretty cool way though
I don’t think Charles actually ever changed, I think it’s just the different perspective from two completely different people, Lee may have become more confident or skilled, but still twisted
Naw Lee straight up looks older than me when we hit them....
I'm 37... and I might look younger but I sure as hell don't look 22
I mean I don’t blame him for running from Connor, that mf scary as hell
before: GIVE ME LEE!!!! D:<
after: Gave me Lee :D
Another W vid from the goat.
If Connor didn’t kill Lee, then Shay would have.
Give me lee 🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥