CS2’s Next Competitive Map
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
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Will Thera be the 3rd map to be added to the active duty map pool? And who wants to playtest?!
FMPONE on X: x.com/fmpone?s=21
THE level design forum for CS2 mapping: www.mapcore.org/
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0:00 - Intro
1:23 - location / aesthetics
4:34 - structure & size
7:11 - the problem with Subzero
9:36 - map acceptance
13:38 - taking risks
14:18 - B-SITE (part 1)
18:11 - lau's thoughts
19:16 - MID
22:38 - A-SITE (part 1)
24:08 - SKILL JUMP / mid mobility
25:21 - community feedback
27:17 - shadows
28:43 - PIMP ROOM
29:19 - A-SITE (part 2)
32:14 - BUY GRENADES
33:00 - B-site (part 2)
35:07 - vertigo thoughts
36:42 - why maps get removed
37:51 - anubis / valve buying maps
40:40 - predicting pro play
42:05 - A-SITE (part 3)
44:27 - map making in CS:GO vs CS2
47:13 - custom assets
47:58 - goals in map making
49:39 - the worst case scenario
50:26 - mapping is HARD
51:47 - hammer 2 is goated
52:47 - wrapping up
53:14 - conclusion
Editing by / vonvorter - Ігри
I just want cache back, all my silver homies love cache
Trash map
@@hehmde whats your favorite map
@@noellundstrom7447 Tuscan
@@noellundstrom7447probably only plays mirage/office
@@noellundstrom7447obviously he only queues mirage
The only thing that could be better than this is 1 hour dunking on Astralis
the truth has been spoken
As a racist, that would be undesirable.
@@stormdrainstormdraindon’t worry, they were kicked out by another national team
I would love that ❤🫣🫰
Blamef just got benched perfect timing
FMPONE is actually so good at talking and explaining his thoughts in detail and his experience. Such an intelligent guy, learned a lot from this. Hope he gets his map or another future map into the game.
Everyone always says how they want this map and that map back, but honestly this is exactly what I want. Adding new maps that are competitively viable will always be more preferable to me than simply reskinning a classic map.
Not a new map though
All maps in the pool are competitively viable atm... Valve always puts the pro scene first even though they are a minority of the playerbase, casual community needs love too #bringbackagency #bringbackdangerzone
@@user-gh9cs9xu8f new to the competitive pool
@@chocolates182 because aside from cases, esports is where the money is, and the CS community has already shown that regardless of the state of the game, they will keep buying cases.
@@ILikeTuwtlesI dont think the esports scene is that big money wise, tournament organizers that hosts the tournaments dont make as much money as you would think, especially after the «franchising» (for the lack of a better word) incidents that affected how tournaments are ran.
I also saw a video a while ago that was saying a lot of the tournament organizers were actually losing money hosting the biggest events, and that they were mostly doing it to build up their brand/name and not short term profits. I’m kinda paraphrasing here, as I don’t remember what the video was called, unfortunately.
Going to make mapping news a bigger part of this channel going forward. If you missed the CS2 maps round up: m.ua-cam.com/video/2gu_m1KraSw/v-deo.html
Memento review when?
Both videos were big value imo. Original thought at length! Also was really curious about these little tangents you interviewed FMPone about.
Only thing that could be better is maybe a lil more prep (dunno how much you did though :3), but mainly digging deeper, cuz it was fascinating!
@@ynelcsi agree with this as a memento dev😊
@@twinnie5393 yo what's poppin twinner the other dev on this very cool map that I put sooo much effort into!!!!
Always wanted to see the map that facilitates great movement aka Train and multiple ladders. Thats just so unique
no one mentioning the cone flip at 23:42, that shit was clean
lmao I was just about to comment on that too, some XGames shit right there
I was just about to comment on that. That was crazy.
when I saw it, I immediatly looked for that comment
Real
babe wake up, 1 hour launders upload just dropped
"wake up ozzny. I dont exist, remember?"
@@MrRandomnezz :(
Im up!!
Ozzny!!! 1 hour of a new map or 1 hour of 247 mirage smokes 😅
Santorini was one of my favorite maps that never made it to an official release, this looks like it has most of that map's best elements
Santorini was featured in Operation Wildfire
Fun fact, Thera was a volcano that blew up the island of Santorini.
Man his comments about no new maps being accepted make me sad. But he’s 100% right, whenever people talk about changes to the map pool it’s always about bringing old ones back. But I really want something new, if a new game isn’t the time for a new map then when?
True, half the time the remade maps are totally botched (see: cs2's inferno).. what were they thinking?
insane cone flip at 23:41
really really hoping to see thera in the competitive map pool. honestly think the #1 thing needed to keep cs fresh over time is forcing the playerbase to adapt to new maps and new map pools. fingers crossed that we see more new maps welcomed into high level cs, after coming back from a huge cs break maps like anubis and ancient make the game feel so fresh
This is exactly what i keep saying we need new maps. A new map every year would be dope fuck all these old maps like yea they’re goated and nostalgic but shit gets boring honestly
I never wanted new maps but anubis opened my mind, not playing as much these days but I would love to watch pros play Thera
I never wanted new maps, I just wanted to play the same maps until the end of time and wonder why I burnout later.
The amount of time it took the general playerbase to get used to ancient and anubis was crazy to me. Even on initial release they were simple but fun. Meanwhile vertigo has been dogshit for 4 years
@@Sam-es2gfi somehow still join premier games with people having 5k hours that never played ancient
@@Sam-es2gf ancient is trash,anubis is fine vertigo is balanced but very unfun to play.I would really like cobble back tho
Why dont you guys like new maps??? Its keeps things fresh all these maps are old ash lol!
Something about a darker map, on a sunny day, that just makes me bolt outside and forget gaming. The true value IMO of CS2 graphics upgrade. This bright map shows it well.
somehow, the way FMPONE talks about the mapping experience being much more pleasant and less time consuming just vastly improved my outlook on this entire transition to CS2. It's tough and it's really rough right now, but I'm willing to be more patient with Valve development of the game.
Same! It was refreshing to learn about source 2 hammer
I'm currently at 14 minute mark and I have a thought on map acceptance. I think it's a kind of philosophical question. I don't know if I'll be able to explain this correctly but i'll try. If you feel you have a control over the world you're living in, and you can bend it to your will (i.e., through playtesting and providing feedbacks, or through map competitions where you can decide which map you want to win or lose), then your perspective is perhaps different compared to lets say you are completely forced onto something that you don't even think you'll have an influence over. I think that's perhaps what fmpone is saying that "no map will be accepted". It's because players are now getting to choose the world they have to interact with (i.e., in cs a map they play). And everytime you play a new map, you'll be an absolute noob and if you get owned, you might not feel too good about the map but then you haven't even given it a fair chance over 10s and 100s of matches. Only after being forced to play a map, or forced to play a new game (CS2 instead of CSGO), people will slowly stop resisting and start accepting their fate, and those who have complete acceptance to the situation they are in and if the situation they are is fair and follows a set rule, and when people start spending enough time on it, they will eventually start loving the new map, the new game, the new update.
This. I want new maps every season personally. The fun of finding out all the new things about a map is one of the most fun parts of cs imo. The way things are now I never get to do it, and have less interest. Trying super hard to tighten up already known things is less fun to me. Same with when I play dota, big new update = more fun. Massive changes always fun because the chaos it causes for the first few weeks after.
I love that comment. Totally get it when you say it’s hard to describe but you did a really good job. This is exactly what describes my thoughts on that topic too.
I think because of this there’s potential for one or two teams to push boundaries again and creating a meta on a new uncommon and unfamiliar ground. Other teams will look up to that, they will try to learn from it, adapt, learn how to counter it.
And when it comes to a map like Thera, there’s so much more interesting stuff to create, ways to play and master it in comparison to e.g. vertigo
Maps are the magic of counter-strike. Take me to far away lands.
damn that hr flew by. would be really cool if this were added to the pool
I think he has a great point with not knowing how pro players will use grenades.
I feel like Astralis really perfected the full utility execute and I see a lot of potential to use utility to obfuscate the T setup, and to create and eliminate angles to give advantages to Ts
When I'm not bouldering, I'm watching Launders. Life is good.
Good hobby’s for the longest happiest life
Such a great combo ill try it sometime
😂😂😂
FMPone is absolutely the GOAT of CS map design, this interview was just spectacular for amateur designers like myself
Love to hear that thank you for sharing!
Now i want this played on FPL for the ultimate playtesting.
The topic of "would old maps work if introduced now" is such an interesting one and you both have good points from both sides of the argument. I personally think the older maps would need more pacing that newer maps have nowadays. Current day playtesting really shows that you can have complex stuff but the pace its placed about in the map is REALLY important. I playtest ALOT of custom cs2 maps, and a common thread with maps is that they have 2 or 3 quirks to them that the level builds upon on keeping other stuff simple. Again De_Train could be introduced as the 1.6 version, but much like the later versions it lost the "under train car angles" showing that pacing introduced, made the map cleaner to play and learn.
On the topic of de_thera, its been such a cool experience following and part taking in this maps development with giving feedback and playtesting. The map went really hard in introducing alot of new stuff with quick pacing from one to the next. trough playtesting it got more and more simple and clean but the map is still busy while being interesting which is nice (opposed to being busy and overwhelming and bad :D )
Really nice video! Great to hear two really passionate people talking about a game you both love to death!
Are you part of a community that play test these maps or just with friends?
@@korq5789 hes an amazing admin of a big playtesting server
i like maps like this and anubis because you have 20x more ways to approach the game and many more ways to strategically outplay your oppontents compared to mirage or vertigo where you just need to out-aim
For FM if he reads the comments the 3 quality maps there was is was tuscan, anubis and breach I liked all tbh but wanted anubis breach and tuscan in that order
I enjoyed Breach, wouldn't mind it back. But then I also like Vertigo and they're shitting on that, so what do I know. Tbf I liked a bunch of stuff that wouldn't fly because not de_ like cs_italy, cs_dam, as_tundra, as_oilrig, cs_747 etc Have they ever remade de_vegas? Would be interesting.
What a great video love the insight from fmpone what processes goes behind making a map. Thankyou both !
The verticality of this map is awesome and so fun to watch. I hope we get to see this map in a major.
Great video! I quite enjoy the analytical discussion about mapping and more importantly the actual philosophy behind it, given CS mapping has been around for so long it has developed its own formulas, mandates, rules and guidelines, and has now even went beyond it in a way very similar to the progression of art forms, because mappers are now questioning how exactly to break these rules in order to create something novel, yet still substantial, and the social capital a map needs to gain by sheer force to actually be legitimized by the community. Especially glad to see the progression as a designer from FMPONE, given his reputation for creating particularly 'safe' and rather formulaic maps like Cache and Subzero.
This actually looks sick. Can this end up in premiere?
i hope so
Map looks amazing fmpone is so talented
the maze and slants of overpass with some crowded parts like inferno 👍
This was awesome lau, please do more of this
I really appreciate this vid, Lau. As someone with a huge interested in CS map design and theory, there simply isn't enough content out there talking about the process behind making them. Would absolutely love to see more in the future.
CS suffers from a community asking for new things, and kick off when new things get added.
Wait I gotta make some popcorn. Didn't realize this was an hour long but I'm here for it
good vid launders
Hope u layered the butter
It looks really fun. Clean, crisp, visible (love blue/white maps), and it takes enough risks to add diversity to the map pool without being too far-out.
It’s funny you mentioned how Anubis feels like the sites should be switched-I’ve had that same thought so many times, although just in terms of switching their letter names. B site does indeed feel very A.
this was amazing thanks for highlighting our mappers
ma pleasure
bro this video was so reminiscing of the old map review videos much love launders
Played this map several times during testing.
I played this map as Santorini and now its current Version Thera.
A bomb site - I played the most here
The A bomb site itself is nearly the same as before with an added T connector making the engagements much quicker than before, forcing CT's to use more utility to hold of a quick Rush through the double doors. I also found if you smoke these doors CT's can boost on the left side of the door and peak into the T drop for info or early picks. I often found myself pushing through lower for a fast flank on T mid as underground was under utilized by the T's more often than not which lead to a lot of easy kills in the back.
After plant on the bombsite felt fine, Not great but not bad. All post plant options are fairly easy to clear or check with little opportunity to out play someone, it usually comes down to utility or aim duels to win the fight on post plant rather than playing for time.
Mid -
Overall mid feels pretty balanced, I often peaked mid as a T and got the opening pick, along with losing some duels. The option to get to mid from T and CT from the side connectors makes mid a lot more versatile than it used to be. Learning smokes and molies for mid will grant a lot of map control for both teams.
The biggest and most impactful change to mid is now T's can access B without crossing mid. But they can now also get back to mid from the path to B to check mid that would allow double peaks from T's from the right and left if timed correctly.
B- The area I played the least
This site Feel Very CT' sided... unless T's 5 man rush it.
The windmill position on what i would call upper B is a very strong holding point for Ct's as T's have to clear several angles are varying heights as the come up from ladder on T side B.
Learning smokes would probably assist with this.
Getting Nades into the bombsite itself as T's is quite limits without having access to the mid connector.
After plant on this bombsite plays a little strange. As its better to not be on the bombsite at all and play above the site as you can drop down window on the back side. or re-flank from upper ladder.
Overall impressions.
I like this map a lot, it allows for a diverse set of playstyles. In the 10+ games I played on this map I personally didn't run into anything I didn't like. If I had to choose something to change on the map it would be removing the glass in Ct mid and the double doors to mid from T drop.
great video, great talk, great gameplay to see the kz on the map :)
i absolutely love all the little kz elements
Great interview man!
This video is awesome and I would love if you did more map maker interviews!!
Your best video in recent memory tbh. Great stuff
I enjoy outdoor maps with vibrant skies in CS2. Helps brighten everything up on sunny days spent inside.
Awesome interview. Thank you so much.
Of course 🌞
We need more maps and this one is a beauty
The colours in this map are just beautiful I think B site looks a little tight I guess we'll see how it plays out
Map looks awesome. Loved playing Santorini with friends. More videos like this please.
that window on B site is insane, the highlight potential alone is crazy to think about. sort of like heaven on nuke but way harder to counter
incredibly cool and unique content.
Dope interview and the map looks fun to play, also very pleasant to look at
This map looks fantastic, I really hope it gets added to the pool
I gotta say. I love to play new maps and to figure them out. It’s always like an even battleground at the beginning.
Hope this Map will at least be in the mm Map pool in the future. New Maps are always interesting.
Still watching through.
But I feel like, in a very cool way, that B has two layers. The outside, and the "downside". Wich I think is REALLY cool!
I respected the answer about old maps being introduced today, right up until the reaveal that opening window had been a requirement of the community. Any jank like ladder would get removed so quickly there's no way it stays.
would love to see this map in cs2... im a little more excited for the map cause im from greece...
This was really good. FMPONE is really interesting to listen to. Interesting to hear him talk about Subzero and Crown.
Great insights, good video lau
I am not playing cs anymore but I always keep coming back to your videos and streams every once in a while. The first person I followed on twitch and for me, the most interesting content creator / analyst in the community
Idk why I thought fmpone would sound like a pretentious guy in my head but seems like a super cool dude! Cool to hear these insights!
This map looks great and fun hope we see more of it
Great video, would love to see more interviews with community figures, maybe a skin design studio next like 2minds, that would be very interesting as well!
First new map I'm excited to play in years. So much thought put into all the counterplays
This map looks really interesting!
Would love to see it added
When will the other maps be revealed? This is so awesome, thanks for sharing!!! 😀
This map looks sick and seems like it can play in a very fun way as well.. -vertigo +cache volvo.
23:34 that cone flip was crazy
awesome interview man
Great video Lau!
beautiful and intriguing map. would love to play it.
Santorini levels on Sonic Unleashed were so good man damn, fire music too
The map looks amazing. Still not sure if it is to colourful and detailed. I somewhat get the feeling that it will be hard to spot enemies fast, in a lot of areas on the map. But I think I need to play it to judge this. It definitely looks like it has a great amount of areas for action coming up. Lets see if this map can make it to the official map pool. If you need play testers, let me know.
33:20 You can drop down eve nfurther and stand on the rocks below the bombsite and jump back up into the window to B. The is the best part of the map imo! One wrong step and youre dead. This makes for sooo much fun! Climbing on these rocks makes my heart open up. wooh :) In general i love all the skill jumps trick jumps and opportunities the map presents!
How about some de_contra or de_cpl_strike?
Havent watched the whole video, but some criticism I can give is the optimization. Was getting below 200fps in the whole map, where at worst (Ancient) was getting 250fps. Can't say much about balance because I played with bots lmao.
23:40 INSANE cone flip
I don’t want this video to end
Your content has been fire lately, this video especially is such good insight, and unique aswell thank you!
Still missing the og demo reviews tho. I know a certain player for whom it would be worth resurrecting it for, don't you think?! ;)
I like the map design I just feel like all the different colours/textures can make it feel a bit cluttered and overstimulating
Whats up launders, after chicken parm and raising canes, I can confirm that I will be eating a marinated pork chop with rice and green beans for the duration of this video. Thank you for the frequent uploads as I enjoy my meal almost as much as your content; although both are unbeatable together.
I can't wait to watch this, launders. I'm sure it's a banger
He makes a really good point at ~ 10:22 anubis has grown on me significantly more than i initially excpected
I've played this map quite a lot on a community server. It's pretty fun, but in gernal the map feels cluttered and kind of cramped.
In cs2 it's not quite as bad as inferno, but it's kind if stressful to play still.
nice vid! excited to play this one
Really interesting interview, would be amazing if you could do that with other maps some day
I'm so happy to see new maps, CS needs to embrace more and more community maps. Spice up the game. I don't want to play the same maps over and over for years.
I used to hammer 1 for too long, I still cant get use to source 2 and on the verge of gave up 😂 "a lot more friendly" is just a small hope
I knew I made a good decision subscribing to this channel
This video is a really good motivation for people who would want to try and make their own map
very insightful.
Interesting how you could see a similar design to sub zero at 8:46 with the same underpass. Hard to break art/design habits sometimes
sub zero in terms of style and theme of the map is the coolest map ever created, I would cream my pants if reworked version would be added to the game
Really nice map,good work 🙂
The map acceptance thing from the both of you was spot on. Engage was my favorite of these potential maps, but CS fans seem to just love the classics until its forced on them. I honestly think CS would feel so great with a rotating map pool, using Premier as a competitive way to play the map pool, and competitive as a way to introduce new maps and keep rotated out maps (as well as currently in the pool maps) to play.
Love the video!, Is it possible now to play 1v1 etc with your friends or how are you on the same server?
holy shit, I saw a BOXR shirt at the climbing gym the other day here in Kelowna, BC and thought to myself that it looked just like your brand -- didn't realize it actually was till seeing the start of this vid!
Oh in our natural habitat
Season is one of my favourite maps still that I wish they brought back. I think it could work very well for competitive.
i like the way that you are specific with your language
Looks great!!!!
fantastic stuff
i forgot to say this map feels familiar already and I didn't even run around on it! Seems interesting and I love it visually
that site drop on B is actually so sick