Incidentally, almost nobody buys a Bentley at the MSRP. That number is a guide that shows where you start from and you are really supposed to go up from there. Just sayin.
Read my comment. It's SOOOO true. Be confident and be willing to walk away if they don't like your price. If you undersell yourself, that will become your reputation and like many other "service industry" companies, much of your business is word of mouth
i was out walking and realized since everyone has a phone they developed a sour grapes attitude toward pro photography.. they have a phone so they can just do it with their phone.. that guy over there is too expensive so i cant have that so i dont want it so i just want whatever goofy stuff i do with the phone.. its called sour grapes when you decide you dont want something you cant have.. you decide that its bad and that makes you feel better about not being able to have it..
I sure hope so!! I’m at the bottom of my market right now. I’m doing everything I can to get to the top. Heck, I would settle for top 10! I just want people to know I exist! I don’t even have people to not share my price list with! How crazy is that??
That's right Romie! Everybody these days wants to be a model and a photographer. But I actually was a professional high fashion model that walked the runways for top designers. Did I let that scare me off from getting into modeling? That every girl and woman wants to be a model? No. I now work at my photography business with the same work ethic that helped me succeed in modeling. My Dad's an active professional photographer at 75, he's my inspiration. He got his masters through PPofA.
Photography is a "luxury product", not a "consumer product". That point drove through my consciousness like a nail! I now have a completely different perspective on photography business.
Great. Now convince the rest of the public of this revelation. The reality is that most people see it as something that is an extra. Portraits to most people are the photos taken at school for their ID.
I agree so much on everything you said right there Pye, I have a good example: Last week, a couple that reached out asking for pricing via email. I picked up my phone 2 minutes after recieving the email and asked the bride to tell me everything about her and her future wife and also about their upcoming wedding. Then talked about what we offer as a couple of photographers, then after that we talked about the budget that's when I noticed that the budget they planned for photography was way off. But you know what, she ended up booking us paying twice the price they planned. When she called me back later the same day, she just told me, I'm not waiting for any other photographer I reached out to to come back to me, you were the first, you took the time to explain to me what you do and how and you also took the time to help us plan things ahead for our wedding. Appealing photography will get people knocking at your door, if they come inside is up to what you offer and what makes you stand out from the others and most of the times people don't really see much of a difference between you and your competition anyway (in terms of photo quality)
"I don't need sales education. I have professional camera gear". Oh man, that speaks volumes. I'm hooked on this channel now, and looking forward to learning more from it. Thanks :)
Pye, I couldn't agree more with your outlook . Marketing to a client who chooses value and experience over price. I just recently made the pivot to offering luxury photography services and high end finished products. First of all, I was through pouring my passion and endless hours into a trade that ended up earning me less than minimum wage. And secondly, my customers needed and wanted educated and it blew my mind how previously, by offering no education and low prices , I was actually penalizing clients who wanted to spend money. Thank you for your professionalism. Our industry needs you!
This was an interning comment. By saying customers wanted education, what did you begin sharing that made the difference and did it allow for greater success?
I’m a sales coach just moving into photography. Your understanding of sales is bang on! I have found you have to help people understand you are their advocate because the popular understanding of sales is so negative. First earn trust and then you can understand a client’s needs and wishes. Thanks for your posts. They are always adding value to my journey!
Thank you for this video. I've been taking photos for maybe 10 years leisurely but only 4 years ago did I start understanding the business aspect to it when people would request my services, I was the friend with the camera. I always felt inclined to keep prices affordable to get more clients so I thought that was the way to do it... the luxury bit in this video was such eye opener. I've followed SLR Lounge for a while on UA-cam and I can't be more grateful than I am today for the videos and information you've provided for us. Thank you so much Pye!
Thanks for your responses, Pye. I still don’t 100% agree with you, but much better understand the position you’re coming from and the ethic behind it. Sorry for letting my biases get the better of me, but many of the words and phrases you used in the previous video threw up red flags like crazy for me. I see now that much of it was coming from a different place, though. 👍🏻
Wes, I super appreciate you being here my friend. Thank you for your initial comments, as well as your skepticism. It's what pushed me to create this video. I'm grateful that you are hear, and it's OK that you don't except everything I said. In fact, it's a good thing. It means that you are skeptical of new information, and that's where you want to live. So put it into practice, and test it out for yourself. The pieces that work, take those and make it your own. Thanks again for your comments, glad you are here!
You're in my opinion one of the best to explain this process/understanding. I'll definitely keep watching and trying to implement these practices. Rock on!
Absolutely priceless information Pye. It’s always been clear to me the personality type of a professional creative has to be very dynamic above and beyond the majority of most occupations. More often than not we dive directly into our introverted artistic field and pay a little attention to the human element of communication. My background in sales has served me exponentially well within my overall business framework as a 10 year full time pro shooter. Your insight is spot on and much appreciated!
I love how straightforward you are. I love photography and been doing it since middle school. I'm just getting started as a business. Thanks for your video's. They are very helpful.
Geronimo unfortunately I had to stop what I was doing with my photography due to my mother's illness that took a turn for the worse. She is doing better now. I have been following Pye Jirsa and the SLR channel for a long time and the advice they give is great. Ive learned about lighting and pricing as many people out there don't take into account everything that needs to be done by the photographer. Equipment has to be taken care of, and I have learned to value my time and what I do. I'm hoping to start up again since my mom had her liver transplant is doing better.
Love this video! This is all so true. Let me also say that I've taken all 4 of the SLR Lounge business of photography courses and each and every one of them was a game changer on the way I look at my business. Thank you Pye and SLR Lounge for all you guys do!
Pye, as someone who's just booked a wedding photographer. Arguable one of the best in our state I found his approach similar to yours. The business knew they're more expensive than others and that not everyone can afford it. So they were straight with us from day one. We appreciated it. Especially when you're organising 50 other things which hugely important, the family is on your back about making things perfect etc, etc. The last thing we wanted was to have to jump through hoops to get pricing. They told us the bare minimum and the average spend. Ok you're happy let's book a time to nut out what you really want and what it will cost.
I LOVE the point driven home here about $250 sessions, that is the quickest way to lose your passion for photography, 475 sessions a year to clear 50k.....475 sessions....think about that for a second, who can do that many sessions without burning out?
Thank you my friend, I appreciate you watching and commenting. Most photographers unknowingly price themselves into burnout without even realizing it. Hopefully the video helped for some.
I love this. I had the same mind set as you that you explained in this video about general price and meeting first to see what the client wanted. but was unsure of it cause most photographers seemed very about themselves and here's my price sheet. (Not saying all photographers) I felt that doesn't seem right. Coming from 13 yrs in EMS, I felt its about my clients and helping them achieve a goal they want with what I know. You confirmed it with this video. Its about the client and the experience. We need to make it a fun and positive experience for our clients. Much love and respect brother. Happy new year.
Dude.....Pye you are so patient with these people! Amazing video and great info and to the armchair experts disagreeing with you I will ask one question, does your method work better than Pye's....not for your business, not for your clients, but in general, brass tax, are you making more sales? 99.8% of studios out there will have to answer NO....so why question his method? Everything he said here is SPOT ON.
Thank you for posting this Pye. Lots to think about here. There are some things that definitely stood out to me: sending out a complicated pricing list is something I never really though too much about. I know we can definitely simplify things or initiate that in person meeting better and see if that approach has more success. Thank you for everything and I hope you guys have a super successful year!
Yup, I realize this is 3 years old, but it is classic. Doesn't even have to pertain to photography. Pye, keep cranking out this sort of info. It's just pure business and I find it invaluable. Many Thanks....
Pye, I agree wholeheartedly with all you've said, as you'll find in my other comment. However, I probably commented too soon before thinking "wow, you really don't need to respond to every negative comment". I learned a long time ago that when entering the digital and social media world with a business, the number one rule is to not chase down every bad comment and be very careful about responding publicly when you do. In the end, it makes you sound less confident and your response will be picked apart just like your initial content. Engaging in a debate with those viewers is essentially picking a fight, especially in a day and age where people don't want to own their words and admit they're wrong. 90% of people can read between the lines. Probably at least 50% or more aren't even reading the comments. Sometimes it's best to just ignore the naysayers and move on.
First time I visit your channel. I don't know how good you are as a photographer but let me tell you one thing, you are a beast in sales! I've been training and coaching sales force for years and I don't know if I have already met someone as good as you. Is photo business slow down one day for you, go out and start your own business in sales training! Cheers and BRAVO! Thanks for this video.
I loved this video more than previous one. You explain same things in both of them, but it seems that you became more emotional after reading comments. This made second video captivating! Thank you for all your videos anyway. I've learned a lot from you since 2016 I guess
To all the people comparing photography services to that of buying a car. There's always a difference between buying a product and buying a service. Service cost is dependent on the requirement and the cost differs from client to client depending on what extras they need, how much time we need to spend, how much learning is involved, how much effort is involved, how much of man power is involved and so on. Photography service is not always a templatized. Its an art and art being subjective differs for each client
There are a lot of photographers, but few excellent ones. One of my parents' friends told me that it didn't matter how crowded a field is, there's always room at the top.
This is really helpful, thanks for this. Hope to learn more about the business side of photography. I’ll try to do some more reading/research on this. I’m into landscape, but still. Every bit of info and advice helps.
Awesome and I totally agree, even as I’m working on building my business more. I see this so often in Facebook post and all, someone looking for a photographer and they get all kinds of suggestions. Some even say something to the sort, yeah I’ll do it for $500 (for a weeding) etc. I also at times get tagged in these post by previous clients or family and when I do, then I do respond thinking about the client.. A quick congratulations to them, and then simply letting them know I would love the opportunity to talk to them and see what it is they are wanting. While most then don’t contact me, that’s ok but there is someone for them but just how can someone say you will do it for $xxxx and not even know what they want not smart practice at all. Great stuff!
So good. Going to watch this more than once to really let everything set in! Such great advice that we are the guide and the customer truly doesn't know what they need. I have to stop putting that on them (like where to shoot, what to wear, what to do with their photos).
Well put Pye. A great car dealer first listen to your needs, recommends the best car for you and even gives you a chance to test drive before they close the sale. That's the difference between giving price list versus a client visiting your office getting a chance to feel and touch the actual product. I have an average booking rate of 95% for clients who visit my office and 7% booking for client who only requests price list. Even in real estate you visit the house.
This is good advice. How can you price if you don’t know what service is expected. Easy to have a conversation about what their idea of the perfect photography services for their particular wedding would be.
I completely agree with all you are saying. It’s about presenting the value of what they’re getting and what they need before just throwing out prices. Marketing to the high end professional client is the only way to make real money. Plus that kind of client will appreciate your desire to establish your value.
Thank you, Pye! I completed the business series, and I'm still working through the huge video learning library you and your team have produced. It is truly the best business investment I've made over the past 2 years!
@@theusbadenhorst1848 Hello! I changed my business in about a year once I started implementing Pye's business advice. There are many, many courses and "instructors" out there, but he is honestly the best one all around (photo, business, system, psych, human wise). Best wishes with your journey!
A much needed video. 100% agree with everything you said. Also got clarity around some limiting beliefs of my own. Its hard to do this business work, but one must do it to have a business that truly makes you happy and makes you financially secure/free as well.
Seeing this in 2024 as a new photographer. I’m about to retire from my first career, and this is immensely helpful for getting started. Thanks so much!
Hi I'm Eric! This was an awesome video thank you! I'm looking for and ready for this type of training. Heading over to the site to check you guys out. I'm also interested in some specific information a 1 on 1 consultation would likely be needed for. Would love to chat via email or phone etc. Thanks!
This is some real talk that a lot of photographers need to hear. Stop making excuses and do it. You're not going to get anywhere feeling sorry for yourself or blaming external factors for your lack of success. I recently went pro about a year and a half ago and it was slow at first, but within a few months of working a ton and I ended up having an amazing 2019 with good work to show for it. It is true that there are more photographers than ever, but most just give up when it gets hard and shoot nothing but Instagram trends, which makes you $0 unless you're an influencer of some kind. People's perception of what a photographer has changed, so adapt with it.
I just watched this video!! Very good. I really appreciate your composure, and passion. You've given me a lot to digest. And I'm looking forward to doing so just the next few days. Thanks!
As a follower of SLR Lounge that is the best advice and I've doubled my business last year! Leave your ego at the door and be a good person in this industry, you'll make money. Pye gives you the tools just open your eyes long enough to see them instead of typing your bs comments on UA-cam.
Been there :( I asked a family member to pay my overhead cost so I wouldn't lose money shooting their wedding - they got so mad - I ended up feelign guilty and shooting it without being paid, and it cost me about 1600 to do it. It was the most expensive gift they didn't even think they received. Another friend from childhood - I offered to do their wedding for free but I explained it cost me and he and his wife understood and they paid for flights/car rental and hotel and they were so happy they sent me a card with their favorite photos on the card. Some people value and some don't - I only choose to work with those that understand value.
Thank you! I’m so tired of hearing salespeople not telling people their rates upfront because it tells me that they are either too high or hiding something. The idea of holding it back and want to take more of my time to teaching me the value of why the prices are high before showing me their rates tells me that they think you can’t afford it to begin with. This attitude immediately turns me off and I can’t give them the time to listen to their sales pitch then-kind of like those Marriott Hotel tricks where they want you to come in and waste your 2 hours of time for a free trip or whatever. If I can’t see the rates upfront, I look up websites that will show me.
I love you guys! I don’t have time to watch this video right now... but i will be watching this video with a notebook tomorrow! Perfect timing for getting things in order for 2020!
I'm not a salesperson, I'm a MF artist dammit. Actually, I'm neither, LMAO. I just take pics for fun and will never do photography professionally, but for some reason, I feel compelled to watch all of your videos, even one on pricing.
Hey Pye, this is a perspective-shifting video! Do you have any tips on what to say if you are just starting your business and don't have a price-point that reflects what your customers generally pay? Thanks!
Pye really enjoyed this video. my day job has been selling very high end construction equipment for 20 years we NEVER blurt out numbers even though everyones first question is how much is a 410 or a 350G there's always a number of follow up questions to get the client the exact unit that will fit their needs.
So much truth here in what I call "charging what you're worth". I am a professional landscaper by trade. It's an oversaturated market ten fold beyond photographers. As he debated the bullet points of the one commenter's negative opinions, I saw so many parallels. I will echo what he said about "know your clientele" and aim for a better quality client. Offer something that makes you stand out from the crowd. I'm just now approaching the pro route of photography but I will say that it has to be similar to my business in that half the battle is, 1. Showing up, answering calls, responding to questions in a timely manner 2. Be professional. Don't dress like a slob. Don't speak with crappy grammar or ramble. 3. Be confident but also personable. When you've nailed these things, DONT undersell yourself! Charge higher prices and be confident in that. Don't sound skiddish when telling someone a higher figure. Be willing to walk away. I PROMISE for every one person that turns you down, 3 more will pay what you're worth and not even question you.
im learning a lot with your courses in creativelive and sir lounge, I just hate sales but im in the way to learning that it is not the traditional "sales car man" that I have in my conception... just learning how to "HELP" and not "SELL" today I had a meeting with a client and just putted in practique this idea
great video, my personal main take away is what you said (photography is a luxury product/service) something along those lines but that really hit home what it really takes to do well. Im criticizing myself but if i feel i cant really charge the amount it will take to make a living then maybe my skills are just not there or too amateur to charge that amount in the first place. That sure anyone with a phone can take a picture but only a photographer with experience and knowledge can do better and take images that phones cant. (i personally see that with product photography that the starting level is low / basic / easy to start but when i see other tutorials and the possibilities presented by a professional the quality and difficulty goes way UP and that level of product photography then could demand a higher price , just one example/feeling i saw online)
Great Video, Pye!! I agree with you, everything is sales. You need to build value. If you walked into a Bentley Dealership thinking you only wanted to spend $X. But the cost was $2X you’d walk out because there are other options. There are always other options. Our jobs, like you said, is to build value in ourselves and what the client will receive. A price point is just that, a point. The experience, the quality, and the relationship will move the needle more than just the price. You can apply this to any business, whether you are selling cars, medical devices, copiers or photography. He who wins it on price, will loose it on price. You cannot sustain a business by being the lowest price option because someone will always be lower. If this is all you bring to the table, you will be racing for the bottom.
If you want to learn more you can always check out our full Business course that includes much more info on pricing: www.slrloungeworkshops.com/photography-business-training-system
My gawd I have a headache after listening to some of these questions/comments. Some people REALLY do hear what they want to hear. Wtf! Put words in your mouth much, Pye? 💗 Unbelievable. You handled these beautifully, BTW. 👍
When I was in high school, a friend of my parents was a geologist. I mentioned that the market was saturated with geologists. He said yes, but it doesn't matter because there's always plenty of room at the top.
Great stuff Pye, thanks for sharing. I'll never understand why people feel as though they need to criticize your methods or twist your words, when you're trying to help us grow with methods that have obviously worked for you. I will absorb anything I can from the elite, apply it, and continue to grow from there. Let the haters hate with their price-competing selves. :) Cheers to your continued success, and thanks again for all the vids!
Excellent video Mr Pye, you always have people that will find a problem to every solution. Not sure why it is so difficult to understand this concept? On the flip side if people want to charge $250 and go on 600 shoots a year all power to them.
my first solo wedding was I see my services as not a luxury I am like the last resort. I told my first couple if they can get someone else who has better equipment then they should go for it. But with all the covid thing, long story short I was the only one who can shoot their prenuptial and wedding film.. I explain what I can and cannot do.. I cannot give them smooth montage shots or a walking running shot.. but what I can give them is my presentation of their love story.. My equipment is only my Sony a7ii and a very cheap 50mm manual lens, nd filters, batteries, a pen and paper to draw their storyboard.. I finished their whole story without even taking the first picture.. And as I am showing them the storyboard I can see that they love the story.. btw I shoot wedding film and stills.. They where asking for my price but I said if we can discuss in person so that I can establish the services and the price. I was lucky to have that chance to converse with my client and getting to know them and figuring out what they want and need, then offering them the things that I can do base on the limitations of my equipment and the price that I will charge. I have no portfolio or proof of work to show, but somehow with the storyboard which I draw nicely and the way I present it to them on how the shoot will proceed, how much time we need, the dresses they need, props, and the locations we need to film and how the story unfolds even the transitions I am going to use, somehow convey to them that I know what I am talking about.
I do urban photography as a hobby and lately have had people wanting to hire me for urban portraits. The problem i don't know what my value is. I have been charging $100 for an hour session at location portraits. I love photography but I don't want to short change myself. Any tips?
I purchased your engagement photography course on Creative Live and got spooked when you started talking numbers because I only wanted to learn "pretty picture-making techniques" and didn't want to hear that message about how much I need to earn, etc. My attitude was, "they'll see how I consult with, and cater to them... the rest will take care of itself." Now I'm seeing this video in the midst of contemplating possibly shutting down this fledgling operation in a few months because it seems unsustainable. After seeing the price for your business workshop I could choose to be upset with myself for having spent that same amount on a PPA membership for prestige and credibility, but if I'm being honest with myself, I simply wasn't ready to listen. After (if) I work myself out of this current jam, my next move will be to get your course. Timing is everything, lol.
Read the full article here ► slrlounge.com/conversation-about-pricing-and-sales-in-photography
Incidentally, almost nobody buys a Bentley at the MSRP. That number is a guide that shows where you start from and you are really supposed to go up from there. Just sayin.
“You are providing a luxury service not a quick consumer product”
That right there has officially changed my whole view of photo sessions thank you!
So glad! Thanks for your comment.
Read my comment. It's SOOOO true. Be confident and be willing to walk away if they don't like your price. If you undersell yourself, that will become your reputation and like many other "service industry" companies, much of your business is word of mouth
yes this def hit home for me
i was out walking and realized since everyone has a phone they developed a sour grapes attitude toward pro photography.. they have a phone so they can just do it with their phone.. that guy over there is too expensive so i cant have that so i dont want it so i just want whatever goofy stuff i do with the phone.. its called sour grapes when you decide you dont want something you cant have.. you decide that its bad and that makes you feel better about not being able to have it..
Pye how did you learn to speak concisely without saying uhs and uhms! Man I've always loved the way you speak!
Appreciate that! A lot of practice public speaking, listening back to all my errors, then trying to do better. Always something to keep improving.
Adventure Singh his composure when dealing with critical feedback is great as well.
he really knows what is telling...just this...imho =)
On point with this statement!
The pauses he takes seem like they go a long way (from someone who struggles with a lot of uhs and ums 😂)
One of my parents' friends told me, when I was in high school, that no matter how crowded a field is, there's always room at the top.
Agreed
I sure hope so!!
I’m at the bottom of my market right now. I’m doing everything I can to get to the top.
Heck, I would settle for top 10!
I just want people to know I exist!
I don’t even have people to not share my price list with!
How crazy is that??
That's right Romie! Everybody these days wants to be a model and a photographer. But I actually was a professional high fashion model that walked the runways for top designers. Did I let that scare me off from getting into modeling? That every girl and woman wants to be a model? No. I now work at my photography business with the same work ethic that helped me succeed in modeling. My Dad's an active professional photographer at 75, he's my inspiration. He got his masters through PPofA.
@@wethingtonphoto i hope things got better for you, because right now I sound exactly like you last year ...
what if youre at the top but everyone pretends youre not and forces you to be at the bottom because thats how the field works..
Photography is a "luxury product", not a "consumer product". That point drove through my consciousness like a nail! I now have a completely different perspective on photography business.
Great. Now convince the rest of the public of this revelation. The reality is that most people see it as something that is an extra. Portraits to most people are the photos taken at school for their ID.
I agree so much on everything you said right there Pye, I have a good example: Last week, a couple that reached out asking for pricing via email. I picked up my phone 2 minutes after recieving the email and asked the bride to tell me everything about her and her future wife and also about their upcoming wedding. Then talked about what we offer as a couple of photographers, then after that we talked about the budget that's when I noticed that the budget they planned for photography was way off. But you know what, she ended up booking us paying twice the price they planned.
When she called me back later the same day, she just told me, I'm not waiting for any other photographer I reached out to to come back to me, you were the first, you took the time to explain to me what you do and how and you also took the time to help us plan things ahead for our wedding.
Appealing photography will get people knocking at your door, if they come inside is up to what you offer and what makes you stand out from the others and most of the times people don't really see much of a difference between you and your competition anyway (in terms of photo quality)
Well said!!
"I don't need sales education. I have professional camera gear". Oh man, that speaks volumes. I'm hooked on this channel now, and looking forward to learning more from it. Thanks :)
Glad you are here!
You one of my favorite UA-camr/mentor and you don’t even know it. Such an incredible action packed channel.
Honestly, these are absolutely essential tips for the modern photographer. Great info!
Glad you are enjoying Jordan, feel free to share. Appreciate you being here!
Pye, I couldn't agree more with your outlook . Marketing to a client who chooses value and experience over price. I just recently made the pivot to offering luxury photography services and high end finished products. First of all, I was through pouring my passion and endless hours into a trade that ended up earning me less than minimum wage. And secondly, my customers needed and wanted educated and it blew my mind how previously, by offering no education and low prices , I was actually penalizing clients who wanted to spend money. Thank you for your professionalism. Our industry needs you!
This was an interning comment. By saying customers wanted education, what did you begin sharing that made the difference and did it allow for greater success?
Embracing the client. Building a relationship.Listening what their wants are. Clients come back and spread the word.
Yes!
I’m a sales coach just moving into photography. Your understanding of sales is bang on! I have found you have to help people understand you are their advocate because the popular understanding of sales is so negative. First earn trust and then you can understand a client’s needs and wishes. Thanks for your posts. They are always adding value to my journey!
Thank you for this video. I've been taking photos for maybe 10 years leisurely but only 4 years ago did I start understanding the business aspect to it when people would request my services, I was the friend with the camera. I always felt inclined to keep prices affordable to get more clients so I thought that was the way to do it... the luxury bit in this video was such eye opener. I've followed SLR Lounge for a while on UA-cam and I can't be more grateful than I am today for the videos and information you've provided for us. Thank you so much Pye!
Thanks for your responses, Pye. I still don’t 100% agree with you, but much better understand the position you’re coming from and the ethic behind it. Sorry for letting my biases get the better of me, but many of the words and phrases you used in the previous video threw up red flags like crazy for me. I see now that much of it was coming from a different place, though. 👍🏻
Wes, I super appreciate you being here my friend. Thank you for your initial comments, as well as your skepticism. It's what pushed me to create this video. I'm grateful that you are hear, and it's OK that you don't except everything I said. In fact, it's a good thing. It means that you are skeptical of new information, and that's where you want to live. So put it into practice, and test it out for yourself. The pieces that work, take those and make it your own. Thanks again for your comments, glad you are here!
@Wes Perry It sounds like you're describing trigger words.
I know this video is 3 yrs old, but WOW! You blew my mind like you always do Pye! Thank you!
You're in my opinion one of the best to explain this process/understanding. I'll definitely keep watching and trying to implement these practices. Rock on!
Thank you Sir. this is awesome God Bless you.🙏
Absolutely priceless information Pye. It’s always been clear to me the personality type of a professional creative has to be very dynamic above and beyond the majority of most occupations. More often than not we dive directly into our introverted artistic field and pay a little attention to the human element of communication. My background in sales has served me exponentially well within my overall business framework as a 10 year full time pro shooter. Your insight is spot on and much appreciated!
I love how straightforward you are. I love photography and been doing it since middle school. I'm just getting started as a business. Thanks for your video's. They are very helpful.
Thank you Claudia! Glad you are here!
Im starting a photography business as well. May I ask what are some things you learned or discovered in the two years since posting this Claudia?
Geronimo unfortunately I had to stop what I was doing with my photography due to my mother's illness that took a turn for the worse. She is doing better now.
I have been following Pye Jirsa and the SLR channel for a long time and the advice they give is great. Ive learned about lighting and pricing as many people out there don't take into account everything that needs to be done by the photographer.
Equipment has to be taken care of, and I have learned to value my time and what I do.
I'm hoping to start up again since my mom had her liver transplant is doing better.
@@cirf1979 I hope things get better for the both of you. Yes the insight has been great. There is more than just a picture in the price.
Unbelievably helpful and insightful. Thank you so much to Pye and the team!
Great mentoring from one of the best.... Pay attention everyone. This video is gold
Appreciate it!
Love this video! This is all so true. Let me also say that I've taken all 4 of the SLR Lounge business of photography courses and each and every one of them was a game changer on the way I look at my business. Thank you Pye and SLR Lounge for all you guys do!
Yes! Thanks so much Tom for the support and comment, so glad you are part of our community!
Pye, as someone who's just booked a wedding photographer. Arguable one of the best in our state I found his approach similar to yours. The business knew they're more expensive than others and that not everyone can afford it. So they were straight with us from day one. We appreciated it. Especially when you're organising 50 other things which hugely important, the family is on your back about making things perfect etc, etc. The last thing we wanted was to have to jump through hoops to get pricing. They told us the bare minimum and the average spend. Ok you're happy let's book a time to nut out what you really want and what it will cost.
I LOVE the point driven home here about $250 sessions, that is the quickest way to lose your passion for photography, 475 sessions a year to clear 50k.....475 sessions....think about that for a second, who can do that many sessions without burning out?
Thank you my friend, I appreciate you watching and commenting. Most photographers unknowingly price themselves into burnout without even realizing it. Hopefully the video helped for some.
I love this. I had the same mind set as you that you explained in this video about general price and meeting first to see what the client wanted. but was unsure of it cause most photographers seemed very about themselves and here's my price sheet. (Not saying all photographers) I felt that doesn't seem right. Coming from 13 yrs in EMS, I felt its about my clients and helping them achieve a goal they want with what I know. You confirmed it with this video. Its about the client and the experience. We need to make it a fun and positive experience for our clients. Much love and respect brother. Happy new year.
Thanks Pye for another brilliant video. You addressed a very difficult topic with clarity and confidence, thank you so much for posting.
Appreciate the comment Paul.
It's so refreshing to hear another photographer that understands their client. :-)
Dude.....Pye you are so patient with these people!
Amazing video and great info and to the armchair experts disagreeing with you I will ask one question, does your method work better than Pye's....not for your business, not for your clients, but in general, brass tax, are you making more sales? 99.8% of studios out there will have to answer NO....so why question his method? Everything he said here is SPOT ON.
Thank you for posting this Pye. Lots to think about here. There are some things that definitely stood out to me: sending out a complicated pricing list is something I never really though too much about. I know we can definitely simplify things or initiate that in person meeting better and see if that approach has more success. Thank you for everything and I hope you guys have a super successful year!
Wow, this is why i come to listen to Pye! He is Passionate and tell the truth!
So helpful, thank you so much for all of your knowledge and advice. And thank you for doing it all so professionally!
Thank you Pye. I just subscribed to your annual service and have found a ton of value already. I appreciate what you are doing.
Thanks for being here Tim!
Love this. And you are correct. Too many photographers would rather put money in gear than education then wonder where the clients?
Agreed!
Yup, I realize this is 3 years old, but it is classic. Doesn't even have to pertain to photography. Pye, keep cranking out this sort of info. It's just pure business and I find it invaluable. Many Thanks....
Pye, I agree wholeheartedly with all you've said, as you'll find in my other comment. However, I probably commented too soon before thinking "wow, you really don't need to respond to every negative comment". I learned a long time ago that when entering the digital and social media world with a business, the number one rule is to not chase down every bad comment and be very careful about responding publicly when you do. In the end, it makes you sound less confident and your response will be picked apart just like your initial content. Engaging in a debate with those viewers is essentially picking a fight, especially in a day and age where people don't want to own their words and admit they're wrong. 90% of people can read between the lines. Probably at least 50% or more aren't even reading the comments. Sometimes it's best to just ignore the naysayers and move on.
The point of the video was to address the points made in a few comments. And he touched on a FEW comments. Relax, no fights were picked
I think you missed the point being made evocati
First time I visit your channel. I don't know how good you are as a photographer but let me tell you one thing, you are a beast in sales! I've been training and coaching sales force for years and I don't know if I have already met someone as good as you. Is photo business slow down one day for you, go out and start your own business in sales training! Cheers and BRAVO! Thanks for this video.
You’re freaking amazing bro. I appreciate all this valuable information.
I loved this video more than previous one. You explain same things in both of them, but it seems that you became more emotional after reading comments. This made second video captivating!
Thank you for all your videos anyway. I've learned a lot from you since 2016 I guess
This video was brilliant! Love the brutal honesty, and straight shot from the hip talk.
Just excelent content, thanks. I completely agree with what you say and clarifies and deepens the ideas of the previous video.
To all the people comparing photography services to that of buying a car. There's always a difference between buying a product and buying a service. Service cost is dependent on the requirement and the cost differs from client to client depending on what extras they need, how much time we need to spend, how much learning is involved, how much effort is involved, how much of man power is involved and so on. Photography service is not always a templatized. Its an art and art being subjective differs for each client
Excellent video. I'm going to rethink my current approach based on your information!
Yes!
Hi Pye I've only been doing photography for a few years, it about time photographers raised there game. Great video. Thank you.
There are a lot of photographers, but few excellent ones. One of my parents' friends told me that it didn't matter how crowded a field is, there's always room at the top.
This is really helpful, thanks for this. Hope to learn more about the business side of photography. I’ll try to do some more reading/research on this. I’m into landscape, but still. Every bit of info and advice helps.
Awesome and I totally agree, even as I’m working on building my business more. I see this so often in Facebook post and all, someone looking for a photographer and they get all kinds of suggestions. Some even say something to the sort, yeah I’ll do it for $500 (for a weeding) etc. I also at times get tagged in these post by previous clients or family and when I do, then I do respond thinking about the client.. A quick congratulations to them, and then simply letting them know I would love the opportunity to talk to them and see what it is they are wanting. While most then don’t contact me, that’s ok but there is someone for them but just how can someone say you will do it for $xxxx and not even know what they want not smart practice at all. Great stuff!
This Knowledge is definitely ON-POINT!!
I Thank You for sharing Sir.
So good. Going to watch this more than once to really let everything set in! Such great advice that we are the guide and the customer truly doesn't know what they need. I have to stop putting that on them (like where to shoot, what to wear, what to do with their photos).
Well put Pye. A great car dealer first listen to your needs, recommends the best car for you and even gives you a chance to test drive before they close the sale. That's the difference between giving price list versus a client visiting your office getting a chance to feel and touch the actual product. I have an average booking rate of 95% for clients who visit my office and 7% booking for client who only requests price list. Even in real estate you visit the house.
Yes! I love that you keep track of your #s
This was a great watch. Took notes! Thanks!
This is good advice. How can you price if you don’t know what service is expected. Easy to have a conversation about what their idea of the perfect photography services for their particular wedding would be.
I completely agree with all you are saying. It’s about presenting the value of what they’re getting and what they need before just throwing out prices. Marketing to the high end professional client is the only way to make real money. Plus that kind of client will appreciate your desire to establish your value.
Thank you, Pye! I completed the business series, and I'm still working through the huge video learning library you and your team have produced. It is truly the best business investment I've made over the past 2 years!
Hi Lucia. I would love to lnow jow in teal ywrms this changed your business. I am serious ly looking at subscribing to something like this.
@@theusbadenhorst1848 Hello! I changed my business in about a year once I started implementing Pye's business advice. There are many, many courses and "instructors" out there, but he is honestly the best one all around (photo, business, system, psych, human wise). Best wishes with your journey!
@@luzye thank you for the feedback. Sounds just right.
A much needed video. 100% agree with everything you said. Also got clarity around some limiting beliefs of my own. Its hard to do this business work, but one must do it to have a business that truly makes you happy and makes you financially secure/free as well.
Hell yes!! I'm setting up my studio and this video started so I let it roll. Best damn video on this subject today. IMO spot on!
Thank you, you are a genius and a great mentor. 👊
Seeing this in 2024 as a new photographer. I’m about to retire from my first career, and this is immensely helpful for getting started. Thanks so much!
Hi I'm Eric! This was an awesome video thank you! I'm looking for and ready for this type of training. Heading over to the site to check you guys out. I'm also interested in some specific information a 1 on 1 consultation would likely be needed for. Would love to chat via email or phone etc. Thanks!
This is some real talk that a lot of photographers need to hear. Stop making excuses and do it. You're not going to get anywhere feeling sorry for yourself or blaming external factors for your lack of success. I recently went pro about a year and a half ago and it was slow at first, but within a few months of working a ton and I ended up having an amazing 2019 with good work to show for it. It is true that there are more photographers than ever, but most just give up when it gets hard and shoot nothing but Instagram trends, which makes you $0 unless you're an influencer of some kind. People's perception of what a photographer has changed, so adapt with it.
Thank you for the comment! Yes!
Such valuable information here! Thanks!!
Ty ty ty ! This has me looking at it differently ! Again ty
I just watched this video!!
Very good.
I really appreciate your composure, and passion.
You've given me a lot to digest. And I'm looking forward to doing so just the next few days.
Thanks!
Love it!
I'm here for video tips as I start my wedding business. This is very relevant. I'm updating my website right now. Thank you.
We have an entire course dedicating to creating your dream photography business: www.slrloungeworkshops.com/photography-business-training-system
@@slrlounge Thank you. I'm doing filmmaking. Do you feel this program will still be relevant to me?
Thank you for this share! You are simply AMAZING!
Thank you so very much Pye. I value your opinion sir. This was so helpful. Happy New Year and God bless you.
Aaron
As a follower of SLR Lounge that is the best advice and I've doubled my business last year! Leave your ego at the door and be a good person in this industry, you'll make money. Pye gives you the tools just open your eyes long enough to see them instead of typing your bs comments on UA-cam.
So glad you are a part of our community and education!
Or they could hit the thumbs down button twice.
That’ll teach ‘em!
This was an amazing video! Great job! And thank u!
Youre soo right! I started my own business last year, after C.O.B calculations...ive PAID PPL TO TAKE THEIR PHOTOS!!!! WTF????😢😱😱😱😱🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
Yes! Isn't that crazy!? So glad you are doing CODB calculations!
@@payamjirsa i lost my mind last year...but have NO FEAR! Ive found it and creating the reality i want to live!❤
Alright. I have no idea what c.o.b. is.
I think in going to Google it!
Sounds important...
Wethington Photo cost of business
Been there :( I asked a family member to pay my overhead cost so I wouldn't lose money shooting their wedding - they got so mad - I ended up feelign guilty and shooting it without being paid, and it cost me about 1600 to do it. It was the most expensive gift they didn't even think they received. Another friend from childhood - I offered to do their wedding for free but I explained it cost me and he and his wife understood and they paid for flights/car rental and hotel and they were so happy they sent me a card with their favorite photos on the card. Some people value and some don't - I only choose to work with those that understand value.
I swear I thought that was Louis Rossman, the guy on UA-cam who fixes Mac laptops.and PCBs.
Thank you! I’m so tired of hearing salespeople not telling people their rates upfront because it tells me that they are either too high or hiding something. The idea of holding it back and want to take more of my time to teaching me the value of why the prices are high before showing me their rates tells me that they think you can’t afford it to begin with. This attitude immediately turns me off and I can’t give them the time to listen to their sales pitch then-kind of like those Marriott Hotel tricks where they want you to come in and waste your 2 hours of time for a free trip or whatever. If I can’t see the rates upfront, I look up websites that will show me.
Thank you for this....I feel this is exactly what I needed to hear.
I love you guys!
I don’t have time to watch this video right now... but i will be watching this video with a notebook tomorrow! Perfect timing for getting things in order for 2020!
Yes please do!
Thanks for this. I learned a great deal. My website clearly needs an overhaul
I'm not a salesperson, I'm a MF artist dammit. Actually, I'm neither, LMAO. I just take pics for fun and will never do photography professionally, but for some reason, I feel compelled to watch all of your videos, even one on pricing.
I appreciate your comment! Nothing wrong with keeping things as your hobby, that's what I do with most of my passions!
I’m trying to make the hobby my business.
Man is it hard!!
Hey Pye, this is a perspective-shifting video! Do you have any tips on what to say if you are just starting your business and don't have a price-point that reflects what your customers generally pay? Thanks!
Wow, great teaching! Thanks a lot
This was needed. Thank you.
Pye really enjoyed this video. my day job has been selling very high end construction equipment for 20 years we NEVER blurt out numbers even though everyones first question is how much is a 410 or a 350G there's always a number of follow up questions to get the client the exact unit that will fit their needs.
Gosh, this is such an excellent channel, it focuses on photography, a lot of the bigger channels are all about toxic brand and gear wars.
So much truth here in what I call "charging what you're worth". I am a professional landscaper by trade. It's an oversaturated market ten fold beyond photographers. As he debated the bullet points of the one commenter's negative opinions, I saw so many parallels. I will echo what he said about "know your clientele" and aim for a better quality client. Offer something that makes you stand out from the crowd. I'm just now approaching the pro route of photography but I will say that it has to be similar to my business in that half the battle is, 1. Showing up, answering calls, responding to questions in a timely manner 2. Be professional. Don't dress like a slob. Don't speak with crappy grammar or ramble. 3. Be confident but also personable. When you've nailed these things, DONT undersell yourself! Charge higher prices and be confident in that. Don't sound skiddish when telling someone a higher figure. Be willing to walk away. I PROMISE for every one person that turns you down, 3 more will pay what you're worth and not even question you.
im learning a lot with your courses in creativelive and sir lounge, I just hate sales but im in the way to learning that it is not the traditional "sales car man" that I have in my conception... just learning how to "HELP" and not "SELL" today I had a meeting with a client and just putted in practique this idea
great video, my personal main take away is what you said (photography is a luxury product/service) something along those lines but that really hit home what it really takes to do well. Im criticizing myself but if i feel i cant really charge the amount it will take to make a living then maybe my skills are just not there or too amateur to charge that amount in the first place. That sure anyone with a phone can take a picture but only a photographer with experience and knowledge can do better and take images that phones cant.
(i personally see that with product photography that the starting level is low / basic / easy to start but when i see other tutorials and the possibilities presented by a professional the quality and difficulty goes way UP and that level of product photography then could demand a higher price , just one example/feeling i saw online)
This helped so much, thank you!
Great Video, Pye!! I agree with you, everything is sales. You need to build value. If you walked into a Bentley Dealership thinking you only wanted to spend $X. But the cost was $2X you’d walk out because there are other options. There are always other options. Our jobs, like you said, is to build value in ourselves and what the client will receive. A price point is just that, a point. The experience, the quality, and the relationship will move the needle more than just the price. You can apply this to any business, whether you are selling cars, medical devices, copiers or photography. He who wins it on price, will loose it on price. You cannot sustain a business by being the lowest price option because someone will always be lower. If this is all you bring to the table, you will be racing for the bottom.
This was a masterclass! Thank you, Pye!
If you want to learn more you can always check out our full Business course that includes much more info on pricing: www.slrloungeworkshops.com/photography-business-training-system
My gawd I have a headache after listening to some of these questions/comments. Some people REALLY do hear what they want to hear. Wtf!
Put words in your mouth much, Pye? 💗
Unbelievable.
You handled these beautifully, BTW. 👍
Thanks Bree! I think there's truth in everything people are saying, but there's also truth that we often fail to see in other people's perspectives.
When I was in high school, a friend of my parents was a geologist. I mentioned that the market was saturated with geologists. He said yes, but it doesn't matter because there's always plenty of room at the top.
Thanks brother. Very helpful
I cant't find the facebook group. Is there a link somewhere? :)
How about if i just starting it out and got few clients ? Do i need to put value and service more although i’m just still a new to this business?
This video makes perfect sense. I'm saving it.
So helpful. Thanks Pye!
you earned yourself a sub with this video. great advice!
Great stuff Pye, thanks for sharing. I'll never understand why people feel as though they need to criticize your methods or twist your words, when you're trying to help us grow with methods that have obviously worked for you. I will absorb anything I can from the elite, apply it, and continue to grow from there. Let the haters hate with their price-competing selves. :) Cheers to your continued success, and thanks again for all the vids!
Man. Way to kiss ass
Excellent video Mr Pye, you always have people that will find a problem to every solution. Not sure why it is so difficult to understand this concept? On the flip side if people want to charge $250 and go on 600 shoots a year all power to them.
my first solo wedding was I see my services as not a luxury I am like the last resort. I told my first couple if they can get someone else who has better equipment then they should go for it. But with all the covid thing, long story short I was the only one who can shoot their prenuptial and wedding film.. I explain what I can and cannot do.. I cannot give them smooth montage shots or a walking running shot.. but what I can give them is my presentation of their love story.. My equipment is only my Sony a7ii and a very cheap 50mm manual lens, nd filters, batteries, a pen and paper to draw their storyboard.. I finished their whole story without even taking the first picture.. And as I am showing them the storyboard I can see that they love the story.. btw I shoot wedding film and stills.. They where asking for my price but I said if we can discuss in person so that I can establish the services and the price. I was lucky to have that chance to converse with my client and getting to know them and figuring out what they want and need, then offering them the things that I can do base on the limitations of my equipment and the price that I will charge. I have no portfolio or proof of work to show, but somehow with the storyboard which I draw nicely and the way I present it to them on how the shoot will proceed, how much time we need, the dresses they need, props, and the locations we need to film and how the story unfolds even the transitions I am going to use, somehow convey to them that I know what I am talking about.
I do urban photography as a hobby and lately have had people wanting to hire me for urban portraits. The problem i don't know what my value is. I have been charging $100 for an hour session at location portraits. I love photography but I don't want to short change myself. Any tips?
Enjoyed a lot! 👍🏼👍🏼
One of your best vids yet!
I purchased your engagement photography course on Creative Live and got spooked when you started talking numbers because I only wanted to learn "pretty picture-making techniques" and didn't want to hear that message about how much I need to earn, etc. My attitude was, "they'll see how I consult with, and cater to them... the rest will take care of itself." Now I'm seeing this video in the midst of contemplating possibly shutting down this fledgling operation in a few months because it seems unsustainable. After seeing the price for your business workshop I could choose to be upset with myself for having spent that same amount on a PPA membership for prestige and credibility, but if I'm being honest with myself, I simply wasn't ready to listen. After (if) I work myself out of this current jam, my next move will be to get your course. Timing is everything, lol.